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View Full Version : MISC. 1st play report 14/11/2013



Tidus
15th Nov 2013, 20:06
Hello, this is my first post and report in the Nosgoth forum!
I don't have a lot to say nor bugs to report (since you already talked about the long waits after ending a match that lead to leaving and looking again for a game) and the point 6 below (should I report it by email?), but I'd like to share some thoughts I had after playing this awesome game.
English is not my main language so I hope I won’t sound too harsh or give any negative impression in my tone, because this is not my intention. I just want to help.

The general points are:

1- When a vampire get caught in the Hunter Bola ability, it's still possible to dodge freely, but this trigger a wrong animation where the arms are not tied up.
2-Humans doesn't jump at all.
3-Sentinel flight feels stocky, due to its obligated movement onwards.
4-People who leave the server is not replaced in any way.
5- The icons in the mini-map: Exclamation Point and Skull are difficult to see
6- Characters with accents, like è * ò ì ù are not present in the font used at the moment. I imagine it's the same for the german, french and spanish special characters too.


Discussion:
1. When a vampire get caught in the Hunter Bola ability, still dodges normally.
Issue: Wrong animation
Solution: Implement jumping animation, in order to keep the target in a vertical stance.
Argument: Probably this is a gameplay related issue, since maybe you want the vampires to keep their ability to dodge and don’t be an easy target. In my opinion, by solving this issue implementing a common jumping animation you might solve 1 thing and rebalance another:

1. The animation would be clean;
2. Still being able to dodge that way continue to give a bit of an extra advantage to the vampires when we talk about avoiding damage. Ok, this is in general terms their major strength against the Humans, moving fast, jumping freely, but the dodge animation makes them an horizontal target which is too harder to hit if compared to the vertical target which usually all humans are.

2. No jumping for the humans
Issue: No jumping = Less dynamic gameplay
Solution: Implement a simple jump
Argument: Jumping is equal to dynamism in every field, and videogame fps are no different. Me and other players too, when in front of a little box or a staircase, have naturally thought to jump on it and we weren’t able to do it, felt a bit disoriented.
In my opinion, the implementation of human jumps (even with a simple tap of the spacebar instead of holding to dodge, for example) might lead to even more fun to the game because the humans would feel a bit less defensive (due to more movement freedom), a tad more agile, and the map exploration would be way more natural, pushing away frustration even more.

3. Sentinel flight feels stocky (I can’t find a better word at the moment, sorry!)
Issue: Mix movement\camera view + low visibility
Solution 1: separate the movement from the camera view and make the player lose altitude if they stop in middle air
Solution 2: Allow to fly or to check the surroundings in 2 times. Being able to look around while standing still (but losing altitude after a little while) and then flying like it’s already possible
Solution 3: Implement another key to use to freelook while flying
Argument: I had the chance to try the sentinel just twice. It was fun but flying felt a bit weird and not comfortable due to the constant onward movement. I’m aware that changing this might lead to more balancing work because it would be a big change, but I’m suggesting it only for the sake of sharing and hoping to help. The possibility to stop in middle air would still make the sentinel an easier target though, so it would be so easy for the players to abuse of this.

4. “Leavers”
Issue: Team unbalance due to a player leaving the game
Solution 1: Allow matchmaking players to join in;
Solution 2: Use bot
Solution 3: Overpower a little percentage the less effective player (more damage, reduced reloading time) for a small amount of time depending on the game situation
Argument: This is a common issue in all online games and I’m sharing this because I was surprised to see a player leaving yesterday during a match. :)

5. Skull and ! icons in the minimap
Issue: These icons are very difficult to spot in the minimap
Solution: Use colors instead of B&W for these icons
Argument: I don’t have much more to say. The mini-map is very little and while I had absolutely no problem at spotting the other icons, the skulls and exclamation points were pretty difficult. Even just a “colored highlight resizing” effect of these icons might be enough.

6. Special characters
Issue: Special characters not implemented
Solution: Please implement at least the more common ones.
Argument: I tried to write in Italian once, when I saw another Italian player and there was this little surprise. No *,è,ì,ò,ù and maybe there are not even the special characters for Spanish, French and German (I mention this only because are the most localized ones).

That's it for today.
Keep up the good work guys and thanks for bringing back to light the Legacy of Kain franchise in such a fresh and fun way!

Strike5150
16th Nov 2013, 18:30
You know I don't thing I've once looked at the minimap. I never use it, quite literally. I just thought it was funny when you mentioned it and I realized I never use it.

The onscreen queues for humans to find their teammates is pretty good. And as a vamp your ability to get up high and see the map is very useful. And it doesn't take long due to map size to get in a big row and ignore the minimap completely.

hirukaru
17th Nov 2013, 00:00
Added my comments in your quote.







2. No jumping for the humans
Issue: No jumping = Less dynamic gameplay
Solution: Implement a simple jump
Argument: Jumping is equal to dynamism in every field, and videogame fps are no different. Me and other players too, when in front of a little box or a staircase, have naturally thought to jump on it and we weren’t able to do it, felt a bit disoriented.
In my opinion, the implementation of human jumps (even with a simple tap of the spacebar instead of holding to dodge, for example) might lead to even more fun to the game because the humans would feel a bit less defensive (due to more movement freedom), a tad more agile, and the map exploration would be way more natural, pushing away frustration even more.

Counter argument:

Even though I agree to your arguments that humans should be able to jump and climb. I think this will unbalance the game. Humans will gain to much advantage.

3. Sentinel flight feels stocky (I can’t find a better word at the moment, sorry!)
Issue: Mix movement\camera view + low visibility
Solution 1: separate the movement from the camera view and make the player lose altitude if they stop in middle air
Solution 2: Allow to fly or to check the surroundings in 2 times. Being able to look around while standing still (but losing altitude after a little while) and then flying like it’s already possible
Solution 3: Implement another key to use to freelook while flying
Argument: I had the chance to try the sentinel just twice. It was fun but flying felt a bit weird and not comfortable due to the constant onward movement. I’m aware that changing this might lead to more balancing work because it would be a big change, but I’m suggesting it only for the sake of sharing and hoping to help. The possibility to stop in middle air would still make the sentinel an easier target though, so it would be so easy for the players to abuse of this.


As a mainly Sentinel player, I also have a feeling the flight model could be polished.
But I also know that when a free look cam is implemented there will be a balancing issue. Even a vampire needs to look where he goes. If he flies up he needs to see what is above him. if he flies down he needs to see what is below him etc.
In my opinion the low visiblity is a good think, to balance the odds.
Next you suggest to let the vampires hover like a hummingbird. This will require a massive amount of texturing and modeling and in my eyes won't add anything special. I don't even think if vampires would exist they would be able to hover like that. They didnt know the laws of nature that well I guess. There will be a skill (Airbomb or something) that will let you stick in midair for a second throw or shoot a bomb (we don't know because it was to painfull to watch). But this happens due to the fact that if you brake hard in midair and push wings to the front you create pressure in front of the vampire and that will let him stick in one spot for a second, but he won't be hovering)

But I got some other points. (I still have to check them out to the max)


Think flying speed should be reduced when holding a human if this is not already so (Your heavier)
Think flight model should be like birds/airplanes. (If you dive and pull up your reduced speed should not be the way it is now)



4. “Leavers”
Issue: Team unbalance due to a player leaving the game
Solution 1: Allow matchmaking players to join in;
Solution 2: Use bot
Solution 3: Overpower a little percentage the less effective player (more damage, reduced reloading time) for a small amount of time depending on the game situation
Argument: This is a common issue in all online games and I’m sharing this because I was surprised to see a player leaving yesterday during a match. :)

In my opinion the game tries to find new players, I had some times that the empty spot got filled. But it would be nice if this happend faster. This is an issue that should be optimized before CB.

5. Skull and ! icons in the minimap
Issue: These icons are very difficult to spot in the minimap
Solution: Use colors instead of B&W for these icons
Argument: I don’t have much more to say. The mini-map is very little and while I had absolutely no problem at spotting the other icons, the skulls and exclamation points were pretty difficult. Even just a “colored highlight resizing” effect of these icons might be enough.

I never had problems with the minimap, only that Heath post still sometimes look like players. But if you think the maps should change it is good that you report it. (But maby you get used to it ones you played more times)

6. Special characters
Issue: Special characters not implemented
Solution: Please implement at least the more common ones.
Argument: I tried to write in Italian once, when I saw another Italian player and there was this little surprise. No *,è,ì,ò,ù and maybe there are not even the special characters for Spanish, French and German (I mention this only because are the most localized ones).

Remember the game is still in Alpha test, the characters are indeed important later, but at this moment server stabilty, balancing etc. is a bigger issue in my opinion. (and please talk English in game, I don't like people who talk there native language especialy in alpha/beta tests. This to the fact you don't know what they say, I only understand Requescat in Pace and some basic words like Dextra and Sinistra in Italian ).


My comments are just as how I see things at this moment. And it is good that your opinion is different and that you let this know to the crew. Good luck in game and have fun testing (playing).

@Strike the onscreen indicators are indeed usefull as if the green/red line around your friendlies.
The map will improve when they fix the Health icons on it, this way friendlies will also be shown the correct way on the map. But the less you have to use it the more you can concentrate on the battle.

Syst3mzero
17th Nov 2013, 01:06
Welcome Tidus!

Like Strike I have to say I don't really use the minimap, I did on the first game on each map to find health stations but after you learn where the health stations are you really do stop using it. that of course doesn't mean your point is invalid as I agree if someone does want to use the minimap it should be easy to read, I really couldn't give my opinion on the minimap as I don't really remember what it looks like since I haven't looked at it much after my first game so its good you made the report. From what I remember the main problem was all symbols were white and look hidden in the pale areas?

Special characters, having played an alpha or 2 before I can tell you things like special characters generally are not a priority at this point, sometimes not until mid beta. There are things like some screen resolutions missing and probably game modes like "team" and "random", during alpha many games have just the most common settings, resolutions and things like that. This alpha is not really like most other alphas as it appears much more polished, I once played in an alpha where the players were all basic stick men because they weren't adding detailed skins to the models until the mechanics worked to a good standard. This alpha lures you in to a false sense of nearly finished as it looks more like a beta.

Leavers are a problem but like Hirukaru said the spot does get filled but sometimes it takes a while, however the leaves may actually be crashes or server disconnects as this is one of the main focuses of the bug reports at the moment so don't hold it against them.

I would like to say it is nice to see another Alpha tester using the forum and its good you are sharing your thoughts, keep up the good work and I hope to see you in game next week :) :) :)

Tidus
17th Nov 2013, 08:15
You know I don't thing I've once looked at the minimap. I never use it, quite literally. I just thought it was funny when you mentioned it and I realized I never use it.

The onscreen queues for humans to find their teammates is pretty good. And as a vamp your ability to get up high and see the map is very useful. And it doesn't take long due to map size to get in a big row and ignore the minimap completely.


Welcome Tidus!

Like Strike I have to say I don't really use the minimap, I did on the first game on each map to find health stations but after you learn where the health stations are you really do stop using it. that of course doesn't mean your point is invalid as I agree if someone does want to use the minimap it should be easy to read, I really couldn't give my opinion on the minimap as I don't really remember what it looks like since I haven't looked at it much after my first game so its good you made the report. From what I remember the main problem was all symbols were white and look hidden in the pale areas?

Special characters, having played an alpha or 2 before I can tell you things like special characters generally are not a priority at this point, sometimes not until mid beta. There are things like some screen resolutions missing and probably game modes like "team" and "random", during alpha many games have just the most common settings, resolutions and things like that. This alpha is not really like most other alphas as it appears much more polished, I once played in an alpha where the players were all basic stick men because they weren't adding detailed skins to the models until the mechanics worked to a good standard. This alpha lures you in to a false sense of nearly finished as it looks more like a beta.

Leavers are a problem but like Hirukaru said the spot does get filled but sometimes it takes a while, however the leaves may actually be crashes or server disconnects as this is one of the main focuses of the bug reports at the moment so don't hold it against them.

I would like to say it is nice to see another Alpha tester using the forum and its good you are sharing your thoughts, keep up the good work and I hope to see you in game next week :) :) :)
Cool, someone replied! XD Coff Coff... To the serious business now. :D

About the minimap:
Exactly, the problems about the mini-map are not just those I expressed in the first post. In fact, In the first game I didn't even notice it was there. In the 2nd I noticed it and used it to look for the enemies. Only in the testing session we had on the 14th i managed to notice the icons.
I reported only this issue because to fix the others would be way longer/tedious. For example:
a mini-map shouldn't be in the lower right corner because it's way too hard to see and it's also quite little;
it was a feature born in games where you had at least 8vs8 players which is a lot different than a 4vs4 in medium/little maps.
Other gameplay related features could be used to remove the mini-map, but it is there, some players might use it so I talked about how I would improve a feature that is already there in the less laborious way. :)

Special characters, are not something to underestimate imho. In my experience, you would begin a localization testing in the final stages of an alpha, sometimes begin of a beta, but depending on how a font is used\implemented, the later you work on it, the annoying it gets also because sometimes it's not recognized as a real issue. So my thought was "the sooner is reported, the better".
True, this is a very polished Alpha, but still I prefer to expose everything and let the developers "put whatever they want in the trash", just to be safe. :D

P.S.
I didn't notice the queues for humans Strike5150 is talking about. I'll check Monday.

Tidus
17th Nov 2013, 08:32
Added my comments in your quote.



My comments are just as how I see things at this moment. And it is good that your opinion is different and that you let this know to the crew. Good luck in game and have fun testing (playing).

@Strike the onscreen indicators are indeed usefull as if the green/red line around your friendlies.
The map will improve when they fix the Health icons on it, this way friendlies will also be shown the correct way on the map. But the less you have to use it the more you can concentrate on the battle.

2.
I've never said climb, I said "common jump". Something that allows you to jump on a little box or get into a staircase in different way that simply running and get to it.
I agree with you that jumping and climbing like a vampire would be too much and I didn't mean this.

3.
I didn't mean hovering like a hummingbird. I also specified that the Sentinel should lose altitude. I imagined something more like the way Raziel used to glide. As you say, a vampire would need to look where he goes, that's why the first thought was the free look when "hovering\gliding"
I dig the 2 points you added.

EDIT:
when you say "Next you suggest to let the vampires hover like a hummingbird. This will require a massive amount of texturing and modeling"
I'm not sure I get why you said that. Is it because you imagined an hummingbird effect?

4.
I didn't notice it. When it happened the game remained just 4vs3 :\

6.
I explained this point in the post above this one.
Lol man don't worry XD It was just a one time thing, I write in English 99.9% of the times when playing online. I hate not being understood. :D (in fact if I make grammar mistakes, I'm glad if you tell me :p)