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Monkeythumbz
6th Nov 2013, 19:32
The latest blog entry makes reference to Dark Eden, last seen in the original Blood Omen game. As this particular blog was already very long and also because we didn't want to lay the pre-existing lore on too thick for those unfamiliar with the series, we deleted a small chuck of explanatory text that linked, which I've reproduced in bold below.


"From the mountains of the North, the Watchers have maintained a link between Human communities in the Northern mountains near the territory that has come to be known as Dark Eden. Although the region had been warped by the twisted machinations of the corrupted Pillar Guardians when Nosgoth was still under Human rule, the grotesque creatures that once roamed the land have long since passed into legend, with Humanity blaming their origins on Kain and Vorador rather than the seemingly noble stewards of the Pillars.

In an act of irony that would no doubt have brought a wry grin to Kain’s face, the collapse of the Pillars freed Dark Eden from any lingering corrosive energies, rendering it inhabitable by mortals once more."

Hopefully this will clear up exactly how Dark Eden managed to be repopulated. Please consider this apocrypha.

diuqSehT
6th Nov 2013, 19:49
Those monsters are a great natural resource. Someone should collect them like a dark Noah pokemon master. So the zoo of enemies can expand again in a future chapter. Hmmm. They had Nature/Energy/States? working on Dark Eden. Too bad they didn't have Dimension or Time to move their monsters to other times & regions (other games!) for them like retail stores ship product. Although I suppose deep hibernation would qualify as a State! There could be sleeping treasure troves of monsters in stasis or something.

Monkeythumbz
6th Nov 2013, 19:55
Fodder for local werewolves, maybe?

TheIrtar
7th Nov 2013, 00:47
Fodder for local werewolves, maybe?

Someone's been following the werewolf thread. :P

Reidbynature
7th Nov 2013, 02:31
It would be nice if Nosgoth has its own 'Lore index' within the game itself so players (old fans & newcomers alike) can read up on LoK's wider lore as well as that of Nosgoth's in particular.

lordbane2110
7th Nov 2013, 09:59
Yeah like a Wiki, however as much as I would love this, how much of the existing lore would be included?, for example if it's set before SR1, then are we only going to have the lore that's relevant to that period or a timeline that encompasses the entire LoK Lore?

personally I would like the later, but if that's not what you guys have in mind then I'd be happy with a lore section that covers the current era

Vampmaster
7th Nov 2013, 10:31
@George - So, is everything that was already warped before the pillars collapsed still warped and it's just that Dark Eden will no longer effect anything new that enters the region? Otherwise it loses it's uniqueness compared to other regions of Nosgoth. It would be interesting if some of the Dark Eden mutants had been forced to fight for the vampires or in a similar situation to the Razielim. Maybe the humans would choose to work with werewolves if they considered them cursed people or trainable animals rather than monsters, but I don't think they'd be able to consider the mutants as anything but monsters and you said the humans thought them a vampire creation in the first place.

@lordbane2110 - There's an unofficial wiki that I believe SE have been making a lot of use of as reference. http://legacyofkain.wikia.com/wiki/Legacy_of_Kain_Wiki

lordbane2110
7th Nov 2013, 11:06
@vampmaster - I already have the wikia bookmarked on my browsers, but thanks all the same

what I meant was to have something like the civilopedia in the civilization games, for newcomers to the LoK scene that way inbetween matches they could look up some of the lore and that might influence them to try the other LoK games.

Vampmaster
7th Nov 2013, 11:13
Yeah, I think some of that's already been suggested. I mentioned making the lore unlockable as it adds more or a sense of achievement and people are naturally going to be curious to see what it is that they've unlocked.

lordbane2110
7th Nov 2013, 11:24
Ooooo yeah that's a better idea

like if you play with the sentinels for so long you gain more of the clans history and an insight as to the execution of Raziel and how it affected the clan

Monkeythumbz
7th Nov 2013, 11:41
@George - So, is everything that was already warped before the pillars collapsed still warped and it's just that Dark Eden will no longer effect anything new that enters the region?

Yes, that's correct - the collapse of the Pillars doesn't reverse the effects of the energy dome on those living creatures already affected by it. Nevertheless, the mutants in Dark Eden would almost certainly have all died/been killed in the half-century directly following the collapse of the Pillars. Certainly none were around by the time of the events of Blood Omen 2, but that's not to say that stories of these ghastly creatures hadn't passed into legend. At any rate, this region took on the reputation of a creepy, haunted area and would have been avoided by Nosgoth's human inhabitants until they were forced to flee there.

Vampmaster
7th Nov 2013, 11:49
So the only dangerous things left there are humans, vampires and maybe werewolves and other than that it just looks kind of scary?

EDIT: I guess the labora-tardis could still be there. That could have some interesting relics or something.

Monkeythumbz
7th Nov 2013, 12:29
So the only dangerous things left there are humans, vampires and maybe werewolves and other than that it just looks kind of scary?

I think that applies to the whole of Nosgoth generally speaking, apart from when demons break through the barrier.

Umbralim
7th Nov 2013, 13:54
I'm wondering is anacrothes fortress still in Dark Eden even if its broken or has it been destroyed. any confirm or deny?

Vampmaster
7th Nov 2013, 13:59
I'm wondering is anacrothes fortress still in Dark Eden even if its broken or has it been destroyed. any confirm or deny?

I'd like to know that too. I think that's the thing I'd been calling the labora-tardis because of how Kain said it was bigger on the inside than out. I made a suggestion some time ago that perhaps the humans had raided it (and other places like Malek's bastion) for the weapons and tools left behind by Bane, DeJoule and Anachrothe. Kain referred to them as a triad, so I imagine it took all three of them to construct that place.

EDIT: I'd like to see a class based around the humans who'd done that. Maybe a scavenger/relic user class or something.

Lord_Aevum
7th Nov 2013, 14:29
I appreciate that the blog leaves the fate of the Dark Eden Castle and the events surrounding the destruction of those mutants very, very vague. Leaves scope for Kain, Vorador, or some other character to have had another pivotal adventure there in a past era, ala The Dark Prophecy.

Vampmaster
7th Nov 2013, 14:46
I appreciate that the blog leaves the fate of the Dark Eden Castle and the events surrounding the destruction of those mutants very, very vague. Leaves scope for Kain, Vorador, or some other character to have had another pivotal adventure there in a past era, ala The Dark Prophecy.

Having humans scavenge those areas in this era doesn't mean that nothing could have happened there in the past. The only restriction it puts on the person writing the Dark Prophecy (assuming that ever happens) is that the place doesn't get blown up. It's not doing any harm.

Lord_Aevum
7th Nov 2013, 15:11
Sorry, Vampmaster. I wasn't trying to imply disagreement with your post, though I can see how that may come across. I don't suggest that Kain (or whoever) would have destroyed the Castle and precluded your suggestion, I'm just grateful that the Castle still exists long enough to be explored again if writers ever wish it so.

Monkeythumbz
7th Nov 2013, 18:01
I appreciate that the blog leaves the fate of the Dark Eden Castle and the events surrounding the destruction of those mutants very, very vague. Leaves scope for Kain, Vorador, or some other character to have had another pivotal adventure there in a past era, ala The Dark Prophecy.

Yes, that was entirely on purpose.

diuqSehT
7th Nov 2013, 21:33
the [structure] was bigger on the inside than out. Bane, DeJoule and Anachrothe. Kain referred to them as a triad, so I imagine it took all three of them to construct that place. I'd like to see a class based around human scavengers and relic users.

If they'd had the Dimension guardian with them, the larger dimensions inside of the castle would have made more sense. As it is, I'm imagining them all using their General Purpose sorcery powers to expand the castle instead of relying on anyone's speciality.
They'd all just stand there and strain like they were on the toilet, you know, and the walls would push out by five meters.

The relic keepers could be the ones who store vampire blood in those vials, building their own lore collection in secret, like the human genome project only for the study of vampires and the curse. Doing research to find more advanced holy water type concoctions to use against the drinkers, for example you could pre-poison your own blood in a way that deeply harmed any vampire who tries to feed on you but leaves you "fairly healthy" because it targets vampire physiology. And if the curse is ever to be cured, the work of humans may provide the key to understanding how, since the vampires wouldn't really care to reverse engineer their condition. So that could be a long term goal for humans---discovering a cure that would bring lost loved ones back to life as people. It'd turn the tide, because then when vamps turned humans the humans could turn vamps back and remove that advantage from vampires.

(These Dark Eden monsters are dead, it makes sense. We kill off wolves and mountain lions near our homes, Kain's empire would have eradicated these beasts. But the world needs another monster era in the future so we don't always have to go back to the Moebius era to find the interesting stuff happening. I'd add another hylden plot that strikes when Kain is about to bring the new pillars online and only then do we learn why they've been so quiet---because they've been waiting for that golden opportunity when the new pillar-making spells and machinery are in motion!)

Reidbynature
8th Nov 2013, 00:00
Shame that they're all likely dead. I was just imagining some mutants with abilities like a poison spit for the humans/ranged side. Could have been interesting I thought. Plus it would maybe provide an interesting gameplay aspect if there was a particular enemy whose blood was toxic to the vampires.

Paradoks_db
8th Nov 2013, 00:30
In an act of irony that would no doubt have brought a wry grin to Kain’s face, the collapse of the Pillars freed Dark Eden from any lingering corrosive energies, rendering it inhabitable by mortals once more.[/I]
I fail to see the conncection between Pillars' collapse and Dark Eden being "cleansed". If anything I would think it would make it worse (like the mutants appearing only in the future in the Swamp in SR2).
I can understand Dark Eden being less "radioactive" than it was, but that would be because Anacrothe, Bane and DeJoule who run the place are dead, not because Pillars collapsed.

TheIrtar
8th Nov 2013, 01:02
I fail to see the conncection between Pillars' collapse and Dark Eden being "cleansed". If anything I would think it would make it worse (like the mutants appearing only in the future in the Swamp in SR2).
I can understand Dark Eden being less "radioactive" than it was, but that would be because Anacrothe, Bane and DeJoule who run the place are dead, not because Pillars collapsed.

I don't think he meant that it'd 'cleanse' Dark Eden and suddenly everything was healthy and fine, but that magic dome we saw Dark Eden pushing out would've collapsed.

IE: A wolf that stumbled into Dark Eden during its hayday would become a twisted monster, after the collapse of the pillars it'd be fine (if it wasn't eaten by said twisted monsters)

No more pillar guardians meant that they couldn't focus their magics into the terrain and the animals, and the corrupting influence of Dark Eden would be no more. BUT the damage it had done, would've been done. But I imagine that as Nosgoth continues to become a lifeless wasteland, Dark Eden wouldn't look any worse than the rest of Nosgoth.

Paradoks_db
8th Nov 2013, 13:49
I don't think he meant that it'd 'cleanse' Dark Eden and suddenly everything was healthy and fine, but that magic dome we saw Dark Eden pushing out would've collapsed.

IE: A wolf that stumbled into Dark Eden during its hayday would become a twisted monster, after the collapse of the pillars it'd be fine (if it wasn't eaten by said twisted monsters)
I know, hence the apostrophes.



No more pillar guardians meant that they couldn't focus their magics into the terrain and the animals, and the corrupting influence of Dark Eden would be no more. BUT the damage it had done, would've been done. But I imagine that as Nosgoth continues to become a lifeless wasteland, Dark Eden wouldn't look any worse than the rest of Nosgoth.
Which supports what I've said before. It's Guardians' death that's the reason, not the Pillars' destruction.

I'm disappointed that Dark Eden is losing it's status. Becoming a really hazardous area after centuries would be fine. Being reduced to a habitable area just feels wrong.

Monkeythumbz
8th Nov 2013, 15:18
I know, hence the apostrophes.


Which supports what I've said before. It's Guardians' death that's the reason, not the Pillars' destruction.

I'm disappointed that Dark Eden is losing it's status. Becoming a really hazardous area after centuries would be fine. Being reduced to a habitable area just feels wrong.

I should have said, "the events surrounding the collapse of the Pillars," I was just trying to keep it simple. We certainly don't see the area becoming an inhabitable place straight away, but by the time the Wardens move 500 - 1000 years later, it's more capable of being one, especially given the stories/rumours still surrounding the area.

Make no mistake, life for the Watchers of Dark Eden is incredibly harsh, and not just because they're being preyed upon by Vampires.

Lord_Aevum
8th Nov 2013, 15:55
What's the big deal with saying that the collapse of the Pillars could have finished off the dome? It was still active immediately after Kain killed off the Guardians, so its existence is not directly linked to them ala Janos's Retreat. Their magic, which powered it, was sourced from the Pillars, so I can't see the issue in saying it would be affected when the Pillars suddenly explode into smithereens.

Sluagh
8th Nov 2013, 19:29
Ok so let's establish a few things (I know that this may be subject to change or my interpretation being wrong):

The Corruption at Dark Eden and the eventual Pillar Collapse are different types of corruption. I s'pose in a way this makes sense, as the Pillars are a way of supporting the land from being torn apart by the chaos of the demon/Hylden realm. The corruption at Dark Eden was a twisting of existing life. This sounds a strange(and not intended to be upseting) analogy, but whilst Pillar Collapse is like some kind of dementia and descent into madness, Dark Eden was more like a cancer, life itself killing everything. However, it was formed by some quite potent sorcery despite the sorcerers only being human, (Bane, DeJoule and Ana). This is the humans' strength isn't it? The fact they have vibrant productive mortality? The vampires despite their power follow after Kain: an aristrocrat only capable of living on the fruits of another's labour. This is the core of what vampire mythology is about, if you strip away the sexy bits and fear of venereal disease. I s'pose you could argue that the trio's twisted magic was doomed to fail a bit like the pillars but they managed to transform with weird plants and horrible monsters a whole region of Nosgoth in a short time.

Anyway, I like the idea of the humie Scouts up in Dark Eden getting tough in the harsh environment. However a few things I thought:

- The seem to have a tribal culture at least. Maybe this seems a bit overly analytical but if they are just a bunch of hunter scavengers in a bleak environment I don't see how they'd ever be much of match for the vampires without an awful lot of practice other than fledglings (who throughout much of LofK have been rather crappy and ill formed.) It would be a shame for some of those twisted Blood Omen era beings not to still exist in Dark Eden, which goes back to what I was twittering about earlier. Even if they're few in number (they were hardly the smartest of beasts and seemed to exist purely to eke out a vicious existence in the harsh terrain).

- If you want to make the Scouts seems cruel (which they seem as products of a harsh environment) maybe they use some of the more docile members of the liberated slave people as tempting, poisoned chalices, their blood making the vampires weaker or hurting them in some way? And another thing - if your knowledge is a bit limited and your living in a tent on top of a mountain, what's a source of good old fashioned poisonous blood to infect vampires with? Some weird mutie juice. Remember also that Kain, if we go by BO standards, was able to be hurt by the poisons of the beasts in Dark Eden. As all vampires in Nosgoth's sire, surely they'd be equally vulnerable. It's a natural weapon. And it appears like the humans of this era haven't time to glance over books and figure out the best vampire killing methods. Thus in conclusion it's a shame that the Dark Eden monsters don't at least appear in lore form or equipment, if not strictly speaking being related to the game.

- I can understand if the Dark Eden fortress doesn't come much into it -it was a sort of tardis and a sort of place it would be hard to find your way out of. I can't imagine the vampires of Kain's empire being all that interested in it. As essential victors until the time of Nosgoth(the game) they've probably got a bit complacent and military technology tends to advance in times of adversity. In addition -if you've got super speed, strength, crazy powers, why bother to learn anything?

Anyway that's my take, although I think you guys are really doing a good job of not joining up to many LofK dots in this one game, when it's plot is so prone to contradiction and its fan-base so zealous :P

The_Hylden
8th Nov 2013, 20:31
diuqSehT:

Anacrothe was the Guardian of States (of matter), so he had the power to change matter, which is why the inside of the fortress could be made bigger than the outside. It could also have worked with Dimension, sure, but this power fits well. I'd imagine that his power was used to create the fortress, DeJule's was used to channel the corruption dome, and Bane's was used to attract and help channel the warping corruption effect in all of nature/life there.

This future world alsohas another monster era. Vampires overrun it and are devolving into it. SR1 shows this quite well. There's practically nothing but monsters in Nosgoth at that time. Mutated spidermen vamps, lizardmen vamps, rotting zombie-like vampires, "creature from the black lagoon" fishmen vampires (aptly dubbed by Aevum), and huge, hulkin' rodent/bat-like man-vamps. It also has grim reaper-like specters in the wraiths of Spectral Realm, or the troll-faced, hairy Sluagh.

Edit: Though I also agree that I don't see why all of the mutants are eradicated. I'd think some would still be around in Dark Eden. I am sure the humans when they settled there would have had to eradicate most in order to make any settlement viable, but having those monsters roaming the edges would be parts of why it's so harsh living there. Otherwise, why would it be? The lack of fertile soil would be a reason, so you'd have to ship in crops, or such. Other than the arid environment, the threat of monsters would be a great reason why those who live there are so tough. They have to learn how to survive these things early on. Maybe it would be a right of passage for their new warriors to hunt down and kill one of these things, or survive out in the most extreme edges alone, like the children of Sparta, heh.

Also, we don't see any in BO2 namely because we never get that far north in the game. What area we do cover in the Canyons is overrun by lesser demons. Those are monstrous enough and very much implied that these are the Seer's minions the one fallen human was talking about:

"Man:
I told 'em! She cursed them, I told 'em! The old witch... her minions will come and slay us all! I told 'em."

If this is her guarding force, they'd make sure no other monsters were int he area, as they make sure no humans make it out alive, also.

By the time Kain has his empire, he's obviously not concerned with eradicating anything in Dark Eden, or there would not be a human population settling there in secret. I don't think he would care, so long as none of the mutant pests wandered into his empire's expanding path.

Sluagh
8th Nov 2013, 20:44
diuqSehT:

[QUOTE]It could also have worked with Dimension, sure, but this power fits well. I'd imagine that his power was used to create the fortress, DeJule's was used to channel the corruption dome, and Bane's was used to attract and help channel the warping corruption effect in all of nature/life there.


That's a pretty good expo of how they could have done it.

Paradoks_db
8th Nov 2013, 23:06
Dark Eden after Guardians' death always seemed to me to be a kind of nuclear plant left without supervision - a place that no one would dare to approach and a one that was likely to go unstable with horrible consequences.


Their magic, which powered it, was sourced from the Pillars, so I can't see the issue in saying it would be affected when the Pillars suddenly explode into smithereens.

I don't think that all of the Guardians' power was connected directly to the Pillars. If that was the case EG would have absolutely no reason to resurrect Moebius. Besides, Moebius' Time Streaming Chamber was still functioning correctly in the future part of SR2 when he was dead and the Pillar destroyed.


Those are monstrous enough and very much implied that these are the Seer's minions the one fallen human was talking about:

It's implied by that one human, but I think that the fact that there are dead demons around Seer's house suggests otherwise.

Lord_Aevum
9th Nov 2013, 00:14
I'm don't think that all of the Guardians' power was connected directly to the Pillars. If that was the case EG would have absolutely no reason to resurrect Moebius. Besides, Moebius' Time Streaming Chamber was still functioning correctly in the future part of SR2 when he was dead and the Pillar destroyed.

No, I certainly agree that not every single spell the Guardians ever cast had a connection to the Pillars, but you won't be able to provide an official source attesting that Dark Eden's energy dome didn't. I'm sure you can easily see reason in the idea that there might be an appreciable difference between the time-streaming chambers and the raw, uninterrupted power being pumped out non-stop in the form of that vortex, warping everything it touches. In my opinion it's not necessarily something these particular Guardians would be able to muster up without tapping into the source of this "strange power that gives life to the land".

Paradoks_db
9th Nov 2013, 01:08
No, I certainly agree that not every single spell the Guardians ever cast had a connection to the Pillars, but you won't be able to provide an official source attesting that Dark Eden's energy dome didn't.
No, and I don't think you will be able to provide a source stating that it did either ;).



I'm sure you can easily see reason in the idea that there might be an appreciable difference between the time-streaming chambers and the raw, uninterrupted power being pumped out non-stop in the form of that vortex, warping everything it touches. In my opinion it's not necessarily something these particular Guardians would be able to muster up without tapping into the source of this "strange power that gives life to the land".
I'm not saying that it definitely wasn't the case and I do see the reasoning behind the argument. But it should be noted that this was a combined effort of three Guardians and as such I think that no direct connection to the Pillars makes it plausible. There was also no noticeable difference in dome's functioning between the situations when the Pillars were damaged and when they were temporarily restored.

diuqSehT
10th Nov 2013, 09:04
Anacrothe was the Guardian of States (of matter), so he had the power to change matter, which is why the inside of the fortress could be made bigger than the outside. Okay. He gets control over inanimate matter too then. His pillar had a wolf on it, an altered form, so I'd thought of States as changing the mode of existence for living beings only. It seems Bane gave Anacrothe access to these creatures' true nature so it could be mutated, while De'Joule lubed & fueled the whole operation, using her energy field to spread 'Crothe's mutations as it expanded.


This future world alsohas another monster era. Vampires overrun it and are devolving into it. SR1 shows this quite well. Cute. And true. The main characters were monsters in SR1. I don't think the series should give up on its non-vampire monsters, though. The necrovamp era was already winding down during SR1, so Nosgoth's future will need a new batch of monsters to replace the ones Raz already slew.


I'd think some (mutated creatures) would still be around in Dark Eden. It needs some scary presence there, yeah, or else Dark Eden is just another hollow street name now, like how you feel disappointed by "Lake View Drive" after you discover there's no lake and even less view.


By the time Kain has his empire, he's obviously not concerned with eradicating anything in Dark Eden, or there would not be a human population settling there in secret. Well this is 1200 years into the empire, so there were centuries for the vamps to clear out the monsters for their own reasons, which is maybe what left it available for humans to hide there more recently. I think the empire was semi-bored and then word got around that monsters had killed some of their brethren, and that's when hunting season was declared. It's very similar to how we humans just don't like other predators like wolves and cougars hanging around on the outskirts of town. We don't tolerate it, I don't think these necros would either. (All of this assumes the monsters were able to reproduce! If not, then that's the perfect reason to say they didn't live long after Blood Omen--if you want to keep things simple. But since Bane was part of the triad, I assume the monsters had their reproductive abilities working just fine and could hang around for centuries. )


Dark Eden after Guardians' death always seemed to me to be a kind of nuclear plant left without supervision - a place that no one would dare to approach and a one that was likely to go unstable with horrible consequences.

Good description.


I don't think that all of the Guardians' power was connected directly to the Pillars. It's like the funding for their business got cut off when the pillars exploded. Maybe some stuff still functioned because it was already powered and self-sustaining, but their operation basically went bankrupt and the batteries for their toys wound down. Maybe it didn't fade right away, but that energy dome ain't there in "modern day" Nosgoth.


the fact that there are dead demons around Seer's house suggests otherwise. Right. She was killing demons the same as Kain. Those were the pets of H.Lord and his faction, the Seer was resisting that faction. The humans were repeating gossip.

Sluagh
10th Nov 2013, 21:01
I always

Cute. And true. The main characters were monsters in SR1. I don't think the series should give up on its non-vampire monsters, though. The necrovamp era was already winding down during SR1, so Nosgoth's future will need a new batch of monsters to replace the ones Raz already slew.

It needs some scary presence there, yeah, or else Dark Eden is just another hollow street name now, like how you feel disappointed by "Lake View Drive" after you discover there's no lake and even less view.

Well this is 1200 years into the empire, so there were centuries for the vamps to clear out the monsters for their own reasons, which is maybe what left it available for humans to hide there more recently. I think the empire was semi-bored and then word got around that monsters had killed some of their brethren, and that's when hunting season was declared. It's very similar to how we humans just don't like other predators like wolves and cougars hanging around on the outskirts of town. We don't tolerate it, I don't think these necros would either. (All of this assumes the monsters were able to reproduce! If not, then that's the perfect reason to say they didn't live long after Blood Omen--if you want to keep things simple. But since Bane was part of the triad, I assume the monsters had their reproductive abilities working just fine and could hang around for centuries. )



Good description.

It's like the funding for their business got cut off when the pillars exploded. Maybe some stuff still functioned because it was already powered and self-sustaining, but their operation basically went bankrupt and the batteries for their toys wound down. Maybe it didn't fade right away, but that energy dome ain't there in "modern day" Nosgoth.

Right. She was killing demons the same as Kain. Those were the pets of H.Lord and his faction, the Seer was resisting that faction. The humans were repeating gossip.[/QUOTE]

I always thought the demons round the Seers house were rather incidental and had escaped through the Hylden fiddling around with their glyph gate (and also bringing over demons in crates ?!?) I don't think they were any of the Avernus demons, or maybe ones from a different area. If they ever do demons again I think they need to make them more horrific. The sort of "balrog" modelled ones from SR 2 (that drew off the ones in BO1) were fun to fight but a bit...meh.



Edit: Though I also agree that I don't see why all of the mutants are eradicated. I'd think some would still be around in Dark Eden. I am sure the humans when they settled there would have had to eradicate most in order to make any settlement viable, but having those monsters roaming the edges would be parts of why it's so harsh living there. Otherwise, why would it be? The lack of fertile soil would be a reason, so you'd have to ship in crops, or such. Other than the arid environment, the threat of monsters would be a great reason why those who live there are so tough.

See, I thought with Dark Eden the Scouts are living up there are living a transitory existence. They could exist in an environment like that without crops, but they'd need to hunt something, or gather food. The idea of them exporting stuff in I don't think could be tenable. So in my opinion there has to be some mutated quality to the Scouts, or alternatively a very good explanation for how they survive. So in sum:

- If Dark Eden was sterile of life (from the events of BO 1) then nothing could survive.
- If Dark Eden was still full of mutants and mutations (from BO 1) it would affect everything else, or be toxic as the creatures were in BO1.

THUS Dark Eden needs a bit more expansion as an idea...how permanent was the corruption by Ana, Bane and DeJoule? Are there any things that still can live in its harsh environment? If we compare with radiation (which is a bit of stupid comparison I know) then things like insects and shellfish might be left fairly unscathed. These are also a good source of protein, and some plants can be fairly resistant. So really these Scouts need to be:

- Tough and quiet, moving around to avoid detection by predators (like vampire fledglings)
- Able to subsist on very little. Keen to share out rations and be fair, as greediness is not practical to these kind of harsh conditions.
- Include females and males who are quite equal in status and all able to defend themselves and children.
- I would imagine a pretty harsh/brutal attitude to the old/sick.

The_Hylden
11th Nov 2013, 23:29
Cute. And true. The main characters were monsters in SR1. I don't think the series should give up on its non-vampire monsters, though. The necrovamp era was already winding down during SR1, so Nosgoth's future will need a new batch of monsters to replace the ones Raz already slew.

I wasn't trying to be cute. Anyway, I would also love more of the other creatures' lore to continue forth from the BO1 era in all of the games. I do also feel that not only the monsters, but the creatures that roamed and even settlements of an actual world of humans got left to obscurity, due to the focused game paths we wound up on along the SR-to-Defiance arc. It is a shame.




Well this is 1200 years into the empire, so there were centuries for the vamps to clear out the monsters for their own reasons, which is maybe what left it available for humans to hide there more recently. I think the empire was semi-bored and then word got around that monsters had killed some of their brethren, and that's when hunting season was declared. It's very similar to how we humans just don't like other predators like wolves and cougars hanging around on the outskirts of town. We don't tolerate it, I don't think these necros would either. (All of this assumes the monsters were able to reproduce! If not, then that's the perfect reason to say they didn't live long after Blood Omen--if you want to keep things simple. But since Bane was part of the triad, I assume the monsters had their reproductive abilities working just fine and could hang around for centuries. )

All valid possibilities.


Also, yes there are dead lesser demons on the property of the Seer, so it very well could be that they aren't under her control at all, or that there are sects which are and sects which are not (and are under the other Hylden's control, instead). Since she is a Hylden, she could still possess the ability to control some of them like pets, but it's unknown.

My broader point of the presence of the lesser demons being the reason that we don't see any possible "native" monsters, or creatures, still stands.


The lesser demons were described in the Prima Guide as pets of the Hylden, Sluagh. They did bring them over when they crossed through the gate. The giant purple demons also crossed over under their force (we see them in boxes, cages, etc., with a couple who've gotten free ... and are sadly unbeatable -_-).

Also, please edit your posts, instead of multiple posting after yourself.

lordbane2110
14th Nov 2013, 10:59
It might be more like the wastelands in fallout, you can live there. you just might not want to

Monkeythumbz
14th Nov 2013, 11:49
Well this is 1200 years into the empire, so there were centuries for the vamps to clear out the monsters for their own reasons, which is maybe what left it available for humans to hide there more recently. I think the empire was semi-bored and then word got around that monsters had killed some of their brethren, and that's when hunting season was declared. It's very similar to how we humans just don't like other predators like wolves and cougars hanging around on the outskirts of town. We don't tolerate it, I don't think these necros would either.
This is pretty much our thinking entirely.

(All of this assumes the monsters were able to reproduce! If not, then that's the perfect reason to say they didn't live long after Blood Omen--if you want to keep things simple. But since Bane was part of the triad, I assume the monsters had their reproductive abilities working just fine and could hang around for centuries. )
When we were discussing this internally, we thought that is more likely that the mutants - being (a) abominations and (b) cut off from the energies that created them - would in fact be sterile. Some perhaps would be able to produce one generation of offspring, but these would be weak, feeble and likely stillborn. Essentially, they were not especially viable creatures as far as life-forms go (unlike Vampires, Humans and Werewolves).


It might be more like the wastelands in fallout, you can live there. you just might not want to
Exactly.

Vampmaster
14th Nov 2013, 13:43
Maybe there could still be pockets of residual energy dotted around the place. Like if a nuclear reactor had been shut down, but there were still bits of radioactive material left lying around that could be a hazard. If you think of the energy dome in those sort term of terms, it would make sense that it would be really difficult to get it 100% cleaned up.

Perhaps the occasional creature would still wander into one of those areas.

EDIT: It would be an interesting way of including environmental damage in the Dark Eden levels. For the sake of implementation, it could just be an instant kill with a corrode effect rather than turning into another creature, but it still allows mutations in stories or scripted events.

Sluagh
16th Nov 2013, 14:27
Maybe there could still be pockets of residual energy dotted around the place. Like if a nuclear reactor had been shut down, but there were still bits of radioactive material left lying around that could be a hazard. If you think of the energy dome in those sort term of terms, it would make sense that it would be really difficult to get it 100% cleaned up.

Perhaps the occasional creature would still wander into one of those areas.

EDIT: It would be an interesting way of including environmental damage in the Dark Eden levels. For the sake of implementation, it could just be an instant kill with a corrode effect rather than turning into another creature, but it still allows mutations in stories or scripted events.

Yes. That is actually quite a good idea. I think it should affect only humans though. With vampires I don't quite see how you could corrupt a corruption.

Vampmaster
16th Nov 2013, 15:00
Yes. That is actually quite a good idea. I think it should affect only humans though. With vampires I don't quite see how you could corrupt a corruption.

Yeah. The energy field decided Kain was twisted enough, so it probably wouldn't effect other vampires either.

Lord_Aevum
16th Nov 2013, 19:31
Yeah. The energy field decided Kain was twisted enough, so it probably wouldn't effect other vampires either.

I kinda think the energy dome probably would harm your generic garden variety vampire, since it felt to me that Kain's immunity was supposed to be sneaky foreshadowing that he was a corrupt Pillar Guardian - just like its three creators.

lordbane2110
21st Nov 2013, 10:43
Which also makes a lot of sense, that the guardians aspects being tied to the pillars, means that while they can be corrupted, they cannot be mutated to the point of shambling beasts

or have I got this wrong again.