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Xaragoth
22nd Oct 2013, 16:10
I'll update this thread as I go along with it (after each round), with regards to both Scout and Tyrant Classes and then do a final clean-up after the test/tomorrow. I'll invest probably this weeks tests and the next into focus-testing these two classes. I'd appreciate everyone who also has interest in doing this to post their own reports below my secured posts! Please use a similar format to what I used, it helps the overview for the Developers :)


Report for Play Test on the 22.10.2013

SCOUT
The Issue: Bow Controls with M/K are clunky and unnecessary convulted, go against standards build up by other games with a bow and arrow (Crysis, Chivalry, WotR, Dark Messiah).
Proposed Solution: Change to Standard Controls: LMB tap to fire arrow, LMB hold to charge arrow. RMB can remain aim to zoom in on a long-distance target if need be.



The Issue: Volley feels a bit weak/pointless compared to both Traps and the Hook.
Proposed Solution: Give volley slightly less damage but maybe a 1 second AoE Root effectiv, nailing enemy vampires feet to the floor.



The Issue: Knives, while in a good spot, seem a bit too spread in their throwing arcs and the interrupt while nice is not nearly as good as Bola
Proposed Solution: Tighten the cone of the knives a tiny bit and maybe give a short stun to it. Or maybe nerf Bolas to be less effective.



The Issue: Right-side focus of the camera for humans is disorientating, removing a lot of overview and makes it hard to turn and attack a vampire behind you due to having a gigantic blind spot. Similar problems do not exist with Vampires.
Proposed Solution:This isn't a cover shooter, so I feel it should be centered - or have the option to change it between the two. Right now it's near impossible to get a vampire when you turn around. I get this is partially for balance reasons, giving vampires a melee combat edge, but if you center the camera and still keep it close behind the character, the result would still be favorable.



The Issue: Bows at least in actual combat seem less powerful than the Crossbows. In general Crossbows on the other hand seem way too good right now anyways. Or maybe it's the ol' Sniper Bias hitting it? ;) Also it seems that since Charge-Up shots deal generally 400 damage, the most effective bows are the Short Bow (1s Charge vs 2s means 800 damage in 2 seconds vs 400 something in 2) and the War Bow to knock down Sentinels. I'll have to actually try them myself, but those two seem to be the favorites of the Scouts I was playing with.
Proposed Solution:Probably buffing fire rate slightly and increasing the charge damage values by about 100 in value. Make difference between the Bows more distinct in the respect of charged damage. Or nerfing the Crossbows, because those things destroy even Tyrants quite easily - even if the human is alone.



The Issue: Bows working with Hit Scan instead of leading targets feels ... wrong. And consoly.
Proposed Solution:Make Bows use actual tracelines and projectiles, instead of Hit Scan. Firing an arrow without leading it is weird. Though if that would make the PC version too distinct from the console version and leads to problem, I guess it's ignoreable. It just makes it way too easy to shoot any Vampire (which makes part of the open design of half the maps a problem - at least on PC).



Now to go on to the last one. The big one for the Scout this test at least.
The Issue: The Grappeling Hook, it's applications, it's current design and how it could be more awesome.
Currently in most map layouts there is not nearly enough climbing points for the current design to be really viable. While initially it felt entirely meh, except for the vancy animation, I slowly found good applications for it (escape of charging Tyrants, leading Sentinels into a wall-dive, dodging Reavers and leading them on a merry chase up and down roofs). However I feel the fear expressed about Sniper Scouts being overpowered when given high vantage points is unwarranted with some small changes.
Proposed Solution:
Vampires can reach any spot anyways, so it should be no problem to add higher climbing spots / free climbing anywhere to give the Scout a good way to deal with Sentinels.

However I agree that simply having the high point would pose a problem.
What would be helpful is to block the Scouts down-ward view on higher places by creating trigger areas in the specific spots. Make it so the scout can not fire directly down when on buildings, but only at a certain angle. This will allow for the vampires
to easily reach the Scout if he is not covered by his team (hard to do with 4 sides to climb up).
Also having to lead arrows as proposed above would be beneficial as well. Last but not least edges and hard-to-reach spots should be unnecessible to the Scout. Too much risk of corner camping at the map edge.

It would also be nice if the Hook was responsive in mid-air, allowing the Scout to quickly leap from building to building along Hooks, making him perfect bait for easily lured Vampires. Being able to use it mid-air to escape the clutches of a Sentinel when falling in the right spot would also give the Hook a more sensible spot between the other two, mostly more powerful Traps.





TYRANT
The Issue: Traversal is well done, feels good. Heavy movement. But it lacks the mobility of the Alien Games.
Proposed Solution:Could use a bit more upward climbing speed or different animations to look less weird. Also having the option to go left/right while climbing and switching sides would help with being shot at while going up. Which is very easy. HITSCAN.



The Issue:Execution is a bit unintuitive to use and multi-healing is not possible, leaving some Vampires to simply die - giving the Humans easy kills.
Proposed Solution:Execution could be more intuitive if you could just press to drag and then press the same key again to eat. or hold it to eat right away. No seperate buttons.
Allow more Vampires to feed from the same corpse. At least 2. This would allow them to stay in the fight a bit better, compared to how easily humans can recharge. Less suicide just to get enough HP to be useful again.



The Issue:DEAD HUMIN NOT SCREAM ENUFF WHEN I DRAG IT
Proposed Solution:MAKE SHOUT MOAR. AND BLEED. AND DEAD. Seriously, the dragging of corpses is awesome. Good work on the animation. I suspect it's ragdoll, but hard to tell due to angle.



The Issue: Tyrants are not tanky enough and die too quickly. Part Endure Pain, part Hunters being a bit OP.
Proposed Solution:Nerf Automatic Crossbows - which due to Hitscan are godlike weapons right now. There is also the issue of Endure Pain blocking all attack skills - even the AoE Stun. Using Endure Pain to get in is nice and all, but you already get shot to pieces when you do so. Since you can not do anything to the humans, who will Bola you right when Endure Pain runs out - making you basically dead weight for your team. Endure Pain breaking Bolas is nice, but also leads to the same problem - YOU CAN'T DO ANYTHING AND THEY KNOW IT AND IGNORE YOU UNTIL THEY STUN YOU AGAIN WITH BOLAS. ARRRRRRGHXARA ANGRY AT TINY METAL BALL WITH ROPE.

Overall I suggest checking Hunter Damage/Stun options and making Endure Pain more effective (check below).



The Issue: Endure Pain is garbage compared to Rampage
Proposed Solution:Due to the issue with Bolas and not being able to attack, there is two simpel solutions: Bolas break when using Endure Pain, but Endure Pain also generally gives a short CC Immunity. Damage Reduction can be reduces a bit, but instead it allows to attack - however it lowers the effects of AoE Stuns/Damage at the same time. Making it more of a Tank-Tool than the useless skill it is right now. Another thing that might help if you do not wish to take that route is to maybe allow Endure Pain to allow the eating of corpses without being interrupted - giving you at least a chance to heal when in the mode. Right now the only application I found for it is to use it to run away - a thing that for a Tyrant seems weird.

Compared to Endure Pain you have Enrage. Which gives you more Damage AND makes you faster. Two things that will quickly allow you to kill puny humans with your fists. It is currently the more viable of the two abilities.



The Issue: Charge with holding RMB seems a bit weird
Proposed Solution:I feel personally that Charge when you press RMB once to start it and RMB again to cancel it is a better control setup.



GENERAL NOTES
Map Feedback
The small mexico style map is too good for camping as humans. Also not enough climbing points.

Freeport is too open for humans and with how meh Tyrant damage reduce it and with how strong Bolas and Auto Crossbows are, that map is a pain to play on as Vampires.


I can't provide you with good feedback due to the NDA. If I had the means to record or use the actual map files, I might be able to propose changes, but this way? Kinda hard ;(

Performance/Browser/Grouping Feedback
After attempts to sacrifice first a hamster to the server browser, then the server broswer to Kain and then Kain to Khorne, I can safely conclude that my new favorite game is trying to find out how high up the chain of gods I must go to get a game going.

In other news the grouping feature works like a charm. good job.

I take that back. Grouping seems to work until you try to queue up. THEN IT ABANDONS YOU TO THE SERVER ERROR.

Xaragoth
22nd Oct 2013, 16:18
Report for Play Test on the 24.10.2013

SCOUT
The Issue: Bow Controls are still terrible, even on the second attempt with 'Rapid Fire'
Proposed Solution:Playing with the whole 'Rapid Fire' and then testing how the fire rate translates to my semi-auto style, I feel the whole rapid fire mechanic (at least with the default bow) is neglectable. I really think (and others I talked to echoed this) that simply using the mechanics nearly every bow in games uses is better here. For one it's more intuitive for new players, who are used to these controls from other genre and for the other if you really are up close and personal, you will most likely fire two arrows (you can quick tap that) and throw knives. If they aren't dead by the third semi-auto shot, you aren't gonna get the 4th out.

Please consider really carefully if you think these controls are really the best possible solution right now. Because I don't feel they are at all. However I admit not having tired the other Bows yet, so maybe it works for some of them much better. Still, not ideal if the Bow people will use for a long while is terrible to use.

Alternate options I'd like to suggest are either to make the RMB a permanent zoom, deactivating 'Rapid Fire' and instead activating the Hold LMB setup usually used to charged arrows.
The other option would be to make the charged arrow fire on RMB release.

Also mouse sensitivity sliders for aimed mode and normal mode please.



The Issue:Knives don't seem to stop Sentinels dive or grab and Tyrant's charge compared to for example pounce. Bolas however seem to do all of it.
Proposed Solution:Not sure if this is intended, but since it's supposed to interrupt, I felt it might be a thing to look at to bring Scouts a tiny bit up in the food chain.



The Issue: Some maps are lacking proper Hook points, Hook in general could be improved by being usable mid-air and a kind of combat application would be nice.
Proposed Solution:Moar Hook points. Allow it to be used mid-fall to give you a better option when leaping between buildings - having to hit the ground face-first and then hooking feels very clunky. Combat applications of the Hook could give it a bit more interesting options.

Suggested Combat Application: Allow the Hook to drag a Reaver off a team-mate towards the player. Risk/Reward. You save a guy and then you have a Reaver on your face.

Also I want Sentinel-Kite-Flying to be a thing. Do it!



The Issue: Camouflage effect is too visible (PS2 Infiltrators can sing a song of that) according to enemies, charged arrow fire is visible even cloaked, the benefits of the cloak right now are minimal compared to Knives. Not sure if visbility is much better on low settings, due to texture.
Proposed Solution:I feel the cloak could stay like it is visually, if it had a passive 'First Strike' effect. Take Windwalk from WC3 (or Shadowblade from DotA2). Right now it just hides poorly, but gives very little good applications. You can run with it, but fighting? Not really. So if it would give the first arrow fired from cloak a bonus damage effect, it would be good. Well and hide that fire - or leave it if you think it's a good thing if you implement a 'First Strike' to it - it might be a good thing in that case.



TYRANT
The Issue: Still not thinking of Endure Pain as anything but a 'tail-between-legs' tool. Enrage seems to do the same basically due to movement speed. Escape ain't much of a problem.
Proposed Solution:Take another look at it. Maybe reduce damage reduction, give a short CC immunity and lower overall damage output of the Tyrant during activity, but instead make Charge and Stun useable. When the enemy team is organized, my presence barely changes anything. Rampaging around at least seems to do better in Public Games. Also getting bola'd after Endure Pain basically means you are just standing there, being shot at. It's not really fun. It's supposed to be the 'tanking' skill right? Right now going Enrage and smashing people down enough that your team can come in and clean up seems to be doing the job better.

Overall Tyrant isn't really nearly as effective as NS2's Onos, Primal Carnage's TRex or the Praetorians in AVP for the job it seems to be intended for right now.



The Issue:Endure Pain/Enrage cancel Charge
Proposed Solution:Allow those skills and similar ones to be used mid-action. It doesn't give a smooth feel to the combat if you can't do it. Charging enemies and then turning on Endure Pain without canceling the Charge might also help improve that skills. Same for Enrage. Right now you have to activate them up-front and they are probably run out by the time you can actually smack things. However if you activate them afterwards, you lose precious seconds due to the animation. Not liking it.



The Issue: Traversal is a bit rigid in it's current form. Nowhere near the genre standard set by AVP games and NS1/2.
Proposed Solution:I feel at the very least it'd be good if you could switch between the sides of a building or hop to other walls that are close by. That would give you a way to change paths when you get under heavy fire and also improve the feeling of traversal massively.



Opinions on older issues

Execute works better when I set it to R. Okay now. Probably just first-game problems.

Tyrant is more of a shock trooper right now. 'Go in, smack things, run away with Endure Pain and don't die' or 'Go in and smack things dead, then run very fast away and maybe die'.

I feel the FOV is still too narrow. Tyrant seems to take up too much of the screen. Issue already pointed out in First Report, nothing changed about that one. Same with the Bow.

I still feel myself leading my attacks with the bow. It just feels wrong to hitscan with that specific weapon. Especially if you sniped in BF3/4. No bullet-drop however is a godsend.



Commentary on Server/UI issues

I'd really like a server browser at this point. Join games in progress for a smaller gold reward.

Lobbies seem to not fill up after matches. New Lobbies fill very quickly. Seems like a priority problem of the match-making code.

Verification and Cancel button seem reversed from what it usually is. I always press the wrong one.

Xaragoth
22nd Oct 2013, 16:18
Report for Play Test on the 29.10.2013

Alpha Test Team Edition - Grouping up with Balantin to wrap this up a bit quicker!

SCOUT
The Issue: Storm Bow is currently both not a great bow and not fulfilling a specific role within the set of bows available. War Bow is excellent in a team, while the Swiftbow does a great job for solo play and quick pick-offs.
Proposed Solution:
Storm Bow might be better if it was a area denial weapon. Grenade Arrows that explode in close proximity, less damage then direct hits. Right now it's basically a glorified version of the normal bow - and worse than that one.



TYRANT
The Issue:Leap seems a bit too good at engaging targets, even without air control or aming. Charge on the other hand seems a bit weak by comparison. While both clearly have their uses (indoor Charge, outdoor Leap) it seems that Leap leads the charge on the skills here. (Pun totally intended - spend an hour coming up with that).
Proposed Solution:Slightly shorter distance of the jumping and maybe a bit more damage fall-off from what it has right now. Leap seems to be a superior choice to Charge for everyone who I talked to about the skill.



Opinions on older issues
Cloak even on the second attempt seems like a waste of time. Knives have so many more applications and are in nearly every situation superior.

Endure Pain is still not my thing at all. Compared to my first day, I can see where and when it's suppoed to be used and what it's good for, but I don't feel like the skill really benefits me. While with Enrage/Leap I can escape as well and still have killing power to scare humans off. I wish Endure Pain would give you staying power, instead of being a clear escape tool.

Xaragoth
22nd Oct 2013, 16:19
Report for Play Test on the 31.10.2013

SCOUT
The Issue:Trap and Turret are great, but I wish they had a bit more range so you can throw them on a rooftop close to you to deny that path of attack.
Proposed Solution:Not really much of a big issue, it's just something I felt wasn't that great. If you could use them to deny low rooftop approaches, they'd be nice. Then again that might impact Volley too much. All in all: Try about, mebbe give it a tiny teeny bit more range, yes?

The Issue:Turret is better at team killing then any of the other tools. We had a few Triple-TKs due to it.
Proposed Solution:Slightly lower the friendly-fire damage of the Turret.



TYRANT
The Issue:Leap is very hard to aim, even with experience.
Proposed Solution:More Aircontrol. Indicator would probably be overpowered for how good the skill is.

The Issue:Shockwave is great to murder people, but due to it's long cast animation and the knockback, it often works against the team, making Quake the better engage.
Proposed Solution:Lower Shockwave damage and make the knock-up a pull-effect towards the Tyrant.

The Issue:Leap is a pretty powerful engage tool compared to Charge. Not to mention much better for escapes. The issue here is more with Charge as an engage tool though. It's too easy to kill charging Tyrants right now.
Proposed Solution:Charge might be better if it has a minor frontal-attack-reduction from Endure Pain. Make it easier to engage without buying Leap. Good for new players. Charge otherwise has it's place, it's just hard to engage when Endure Pain isn't really a combo with Charge. Alternate option is still to make Endure Pain work during Leap/Charge to allow for a better attack on the enemy position.

Monkeythumbz
22nd Oct 2013, 17:28
This is AWESOME! Thanks so much for being so detailed and thorough!!

Xaragoth
22nd Oct 2013, 17:50
No problem. It's still a bit chaotic, will clean when I have time.

I actually have a background in modding/game design/level design/art :) But I work for no company at all right now *sad panda*
I may or may not have also applied at Psyonix *cough*

Could you edit the topic for me? Take the date out? Leave just the Report title.

Xaragoth
22nd Oct 2013, 19:52
It is done. I hope this helps.

Keep in mind this Play Test Report is the first one and not based on long-term experience with the game yet. I will evaluate my opinions in future Tests and after playing more Classes.

Obviously Developer Feedback regarding my proposed solutions is appreciated so I get a better grasp of certain design intents behind the game. Also I like to debate on it all. So I say BRING IT PEOPLE!

I will also post a different thread with ideas regarding Classes, Abilities, Game Modes and all that as I gather more of them. Better to throw it out in one big push.

Psyonix_Corey
22nd Oct 2013, 21:37
Just a heads up from us -

This is cool but I have to warn you I usually won't be able to reply to this quantity of suggestions in detail. It's great you're analyzing issues and offering reasoned suggestions and I will always read this stuff, but in a lot of cases we spent a lot of iteration time in development trying the exact things you propose and they didn't work for one reason or another. I could spend all day explaining why this or that is the way it is, but then we'd never get new modes or classes released... :)

A few examples:
- Scout Bow Charge is on RMB so you can rapid fire with LMB. If it was hold-LMB, you would have to spam click it to fire it unaimed. The TF2 Sniper functions similarly in that you press RMB to enter zoom/charge mode and LMB to fire once charged.
- Scout Bow is Hitscan specifically because of overwhelming feedback in development that projectile leading was too difficult against our extremely fast vampires that are constantly changing direction, dodging, etc.
- Scout Bow DPS is supplemented by the ability to rapid fire without aiming in mid range combat. This was the ideal solution to allow him effectiveness in crazy skirmishes while retaining the powerful charge up shots from range. You're not meant to be fully drawing and firing when enemies get close, use unaimed shots.
- Execute is on a different button than Drag specifically because players would spam "E" to grab a player and then go into Execute accidentally. There's been a persistent desire from playtesters to be able to driveby spam "E" when approaching a corpse so they can snag it on the go / while being shot at.
- Ignore Pain is a fantastic Tanking ability and I'd suggest you're not using it properly if you think it's garbage. Further, you can already eat corpses while using it.

Xaragoth
23rd Oct 2013, 09:21
Just a heads up from us -

This is cool but I have to warn you I usually won't be able to reply to this quantity of suggestions in detail. It's great you're analyzing issues and offering reasoned suggestions and I will always read this stuff, but in a lot of cases we spent a lot of iteration time in development trying the exact things you propose and they didn't work for one reason or another. I could spend all day explaining why this or that is the way it is, but then we'd never get new modes or classes released... :)

A few examples:
- Scout Bow Charge is on RMB so you can rapid fire with LMB. If it was hold-LMB, you would have to spam click it to fire it unaimed. The TF2 Sniper functions similarly in that you press RMB to enter zoom/charge mode and LMB to fire once charged.
- Scout Bow is Hitscan specifically because of overwhelming feedback in development that projectile leading was too difficult against our extremely fast vampires that are constantly changing direction, dodging, etc.
- Scout Bow DPS is supplemented by the ability to rapid fire without aiming in mid range combat. This was the ideal solution to allow him effectiveness in crazy skirmishes while retaining the powerful charge up shots from range. You're not meant to be fully drawing and firing when enemies get close, use unaimed shots.
- Execute is on a different button than Drag specifically because players would spam "E" to grab a player and then go into Execute accidentally. There's been a persistent desire from playtesters to be able to driveby spam "E" when approaching a corpse so they can snag it on the go / while being shot at.
- Ignore Pain is a fantastic Tanking ability and I'd suggest you're not using it properly if you think it's garbage. Further, you can already eat corpses while using it.

Now that your servers are back up after eating my hour long post, here the slightly more streamlined version of this post (it lost a few things along the way that I forgot *grml):

Thanks for taking the time to toss this in here. Garbage might have been a bit of a hard word for Ignore Pain, but then again I was quite frustrated with the skill yesterday. Apologies, no intention to offend all your hard work on the game there.
I am aware that you have a busy shedule, that comes with the job. But if you could take a few minutes after each Play Test Report is done to give short feedback on each 'Issue' even if it's just "We did that, didn't work." it would be helpful for me. It gives me something to work with at least and a better idea what you already approached as ideas and what not. If there is a specific solution that I feel is just right I might however request more information from you - and I'd be happy if you'd give it in detail in those cases :)


I am aware of the fact that you probably did a lot of things already, that is the nature of the beast in game development. I mention pretty much all of the ideas I get for fixing the issues I come across for myself (obviously it's hard for me to actually consider valid solutions without playtesting, itteration and even a history of what you already attempted earlier in production) due to Eric's request in the Grappling Hook thread.


Still post your ideas, please. You may still think of something we haven't.

I am just going to use that approach for everything, even if in some cases I already have the suspicion you did it - or if I am suspicious it might get better with more play time :) Though I would totally not mind having the GDD and QA Documents *cough cough* :D

Also I am just giving feedback to what I come along with (if you saw the thread during the gameplay, I have been mostly writing one or two lines of comment during the game), obviously I will re-evaluate opinions as I go along with more play time (as I said before). It's all based on the first game session and obviously that was cut short by the servers having so much trouble ;/

Now regarding the examples you brought up:
Scout Bow Charge
I actually did not once rapid-fire the Scout Bow. Thanks for telling me it even does that. I just assumed that a bow is basically a semi-auto weapon (like a battle rifle, pistol - or a bow) and handled it in that way, while the Crossbow is the ol' automatic rifle. However since you mentioned the TF2 Sniper: It is not nearly as clunky to use as the Scout Bow feels to me right now. You can toggle the Zoom, giving you a quick tap on the RMB and then you can let go of it and it charges by itself over the time required to it's full Snipe Damage. It might just be me and my big hands and the fact every mouse produced for PCs in existence is for the hands of tiny people, but for me the current controls are a pain in my right hand, so I guess you can play a bias card ;)

Proposed (Instant Noddle) Solution #2: Turn LMB into Rapid Fire and RMB into a Charge-and-Release control setup. Or really just copy the TF2 Sniper Rifle Design. The current middle ground is a bit clunky (something for example SaneK7 also echoed in another thread).

I will think on the whole issue a bit more, give it another spin next test and then get back to that particular problem with any new ideas that come up. It might just be a problem for specific people and less for the broad masses.



Scout Bow Hitscan being in there because of overwhelming feedback was expected tbh. I just had that weird feeling of it being a bit wrong during playing and as such it just made the list based on my gameplay notes. On the other hand I have had to lead shots in every recent title I played - from BF4 Beta over to Chivalry and onward to Tribes and as such going back to the old way of UT and Quake with a weapon is a bit of a breath of fresh air. As someone who plays NS2 a lot leading a target and reacting to quick movement is probably less of a problem, but I am aware a lot of people have massive trouble with these quick reactions.

Issue probably isn't the right thing to use for the commentary on perceived problems. Need a new word. Suggestions?



Scout Bow DPS is a valid point. I did not consider Rapid-Fire in my gameplay (as I handled the Scout Bow as a Semi-Auto). There is also obviously the fact that I did not use the Bows yet myself. But from my own experience with the Scout Bow thus far I expect I will be using Swift Bow. I prefer slow and hard hitting in any game that has them, with quick attacks to finish off - meaning I will use charged shots in close range, regardless of your intentional design. I AM GOING TO MAKE YOUR DATA LOOK WOBBLY ;)



Execute Well, that's alright. I just felt that it could be put into a single button mechanic. Obviously if you spam-run at corpses, it becomes a problem. I will give my button layout another go and then see how it goes.



Ignore Pain I do not see it, I really do not. Maybe in a organized 4 player team with voice commands I could, but right now going in with Enrage seems to be superior to me. I will obviously re-evaluate the skill again, but from my gameplay with it, I see no good reason to pick it up right now. All it did for me was lock me into a endless chain of being unable to fight back - leading to massive frustration on my end. Maybe when I unlock Leap on Thursday - which gives a most likely superior approach for the camp spots the humans seem to favor (even if it will limit my CC potential in the fight). Also either I had entirely bad luck or you misunderstood my note: Does Ignore Pain allow you to eat a corpse while being shot at, when active? Because that didn't seem to work for me.

I'd appreciate if you could give me a overview on how Ignore Pain is intended to be used exactly in your design and what you think the best way to use in a combat situation is, so I can give it another spin. Please keep in mind that I have no organized team at hand, so also give me the Pub-Server version along with the team version if you would ;)




Now, to finish this up I'd just like to mention that while my thread here might seem a bit negative, I had a blast playing the game. I greatly enjoyed the few rounds I could play and while I got annoyed by some things, others made me go happy-go-lucky (like dragging a dead body after me to EAT IT'S FACE) or leading a Reaver on a merry chase up and down rooftops until I killed him and then shouting "I AM THE NIGHT" in chat (because seriously, the Hook turns you into Batman!) I just usually don't spend much time on praise, as I feel a good game always holds it's own. It doesn't need me to cheer it on. So I just like to pull on it's arms and legs and see what rips open and needs sewing shut in my personal opinion.


----

The amount of mistakes in my posts due to sleepyness is over 9000 at the moment. Will attempt to do better. Going a bit German-English mixing on it.

Monkeythumbz
23rd Oct 2013, 12:51
Could you edit the topic for me? Take the date out? Leave just the Report title.

Done!

Xaragoth
23rd Oct 2013, 13:50
Done!

Thank you very much :)

I'll do the Report for the 2 week shedule for the next 6 weeks and then I will go to daily reports on play tests and more specific patch-related tests.

YawningSoldier
24th Oct 2013, 16:13
Ladies and gentlemen! I present you YawningSoldier! Both first to die, and first to crash on this testrun :D

Xaragoth
25th Oct 2013, 13:21
Report #2 has been written up.

I had some really good fun this time too (if you read the comments you now are familiar with my new favorite sport: Human Bowling). I still however feel there is some issues with the game right now that I am adamant are problems that need to be solved in the long run.

Balantin and myself are current giving Primal Carnage and Natural Selection 2 another spin to get a bit of a more solid impression about what we like about Nosgoth and what we like more about other games. Good to get a bit of perspective on it all.


Next weeks focuses are listed already. Though it becomes harder to test all possible combinations with so little gold available. I suspect Camouflage might be really nice to drop Traps right on enemies. Will give that a try if I have the gold. Tyrant and Bows are more important for the next test. Mostly because I want to go flying over half the map :p

Balantin
25th Oct 2013, 16:14
Gotta pitch in about Cloak.
Personally i had no problem seeing people who used it, i think you gotta make them less visible.
Maybe lower the movement speed of the player to compensate and increase the duration, or make you less visible if you're moving normally (not sprinting). I havent tried it myself so i'm not sure how it works right now though.

Also about the Tyrant, it feels more like a hit'n'run class (admittedly all vampires kind of do) with the endure pain being his "get out of ****ty situation" freecard, and he's not meant to stick around and take a ton of punishment like the tank alot of people seem to think he is.
All vampires have an ability like this, the reaver doing the ghost form, and sentinels take-off ability.
I think his size is what makes people think he is a tank, I think it's to compensate for his high damage output.

Xaragoth
25th Oct 2013, 16:39
Gotta pitch in about Cloak.
Personally i had no problem seeing people who used it, i think you gotta make them less visible.
Maybe lower the movement speed of the player to compensate and increase the duration, or make you less visible if you're moving normally (not sprinting). I havent tried it myself so i'm not sure how it works right now though.

Also about the Tyrant, it feels more like a hit'n'run class (admittedly all vampires kind of do) with the endure pain being his "get out of ****ty situation" freecard, and he's not meant to stick around and take a ton of punishment like the tank alot of people seem to think he is.
All vampires have an ability like this, the reaver doing the ghost form, and sentinels take-off ability.
I think his size is what makes people think he is a tank, I think it's to compensate for his high damage output.

As discussed on Steam before, you are quite right that it's more of a Shocktrooper. Go in, smack around a bit, run away. It just feels kinda wrong considering you are 300 pounds of solid muscles with fists the size of a human torso. Class-intern schizophrenia right there :>

I'll try to see if I can find Endure Pain more useful next test when Leap is unlocked and see if that helps with using it more offensive. For now I stand by the point that Enrage can serve the same purpose of getting out of the fight, just not as high a chance of escape. It does however provide a significant speed and attack boost - giving you killing and staying power as well as escape options.

Balantin
25th Oct 2013, 17:12
Does Enrage let you break out of bolas though?

Xaragoth
25th Oct 2013, 17:59
Does Enrage let you break out of bolas though?

Nope, it does not. On the other hand you can walk with Bolas. And if you turn on Endure Pain to break it, you are still stuck in the non-attack mode.

Xaragoth
30th Oct 2013, 15:17
3rd Report is up. This time based on opinions given to me by Balantin and my own.

It's slowly going towards the low end of the reporting, since most of the testing is done by now. Thursday will be the last Scout/Tyrant Report, before we move on to a new combo.

Xaragoth
2nd Nov 2013, 15:16
Report #4 is up. This marks the end of this phase.

For now I will withhold on writing a final report on the classes. I will instead do the other 2 focus tests and then write you fine folks a gigantic thread with a complete report on all classes, refreshed with new input due to more experience with all classes.

Monkeythumbz
15th Nov 2013, 14:18
Report #4 is up. This marks the end of this phase.

For now I will withhold on writing a final report on the classes. I will instead do the other 2 focus tests and then write you fine folks a gigantic thread with a complete report on all classes, refreshed with new input due to more experience with all classes.

Thanks ever o much for compiling this, Xaragoth!

Oroibahazopi
28th Nov 2013, 01:05
My two chosen classes in one post how convenient.

Are bows still hitscan? This my explain why I was missing a lot at range. I personally think that hitscan is a bit too easy mode with weapons with such long range. But then I'm also a Tribes Vet, kids these days have it too easy. Projectile physics will certainly up the skill ceiling on humans.

I'm finding that the RMB charge attack is a massive gamble because it reduces your fov and slows your reticule movement and makes you easy pickings to the long range pouncing moves of the vamps that're outside your vision. I guess though you need a decent team to cover your blind spots.

Having played Hunter briefly as well I can say the Bola does seem a lot more consistent than the knives. I didn't realize there was stealth but my experience is that 1k dmg from invis is just cheesy. AI controlled turrets need be bad and stay bad, just remove them from the game plz.