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TenebraeAeterna
21st Oct 2013, 20:32
Just a random little thought I had, what if the Tyrants could pick up human corpses to use as meat shields for a short period of time? For example, imagine that you have just taken down a human and find yourself suddenly engaged by two others... Your extremely strong Tyrant quickly grabs his victim by the skull, or back of the armor, and lifts him/her just in time to take several crossbow shots and deflect a grenade. Then, realizing you has to make a hasty retreat, toss the corpse towards one of the humans to cause a slight knock back (down) and leap up to the rooftops before the second one has a chance to take you out.

Not sure if it's doable, but it could be a fun little trick to use your enemy's comrades as a meat shield.

Vampmaster
21st Oct 2013, 22:15
Tyrants already have a shield. We saw at the community event, but it might have been in the videos as well and I think it was described in the lore/blog as some sort of telekinitic deflection (paraphrasing).

If anyone's going to use any dead meat, it would be the Melchiahim. They were the ones who stole their enemies skin afterall.

TenebraeAeterna
21st Oct 2013, 22:17
Tyrants already have a shield. We saw at the community event, but it might have been in the videos as well and I think it was described in the lore/blog as some sort of telekinitic deflection (paraphrasing).

If anyone's going to use any dead meat, it would be the Melchiahim. They were the ones who stole their enemies skin afterall.

Do you have a link to any demonstration of this shield? I wasn't aware of such...

With that said...the Melchiahim using the flesh of their enemies would be interesting, but how would they go about this? Surely not through a meat shield idea...but perhaps something else...

Vampmaster
21st Oct 2013, 22:29
Do you have a link to any demonstration of this shield? I wasn't aware of such...

With that said...the Melchiahim using the flesh of their enemies would be interesting, but how would they go about this? Surely not through a meat shield idea...but perhaps something else...

If it's not in the existing videos, I won't be able to show you. I can describe it though. Whenever I wanted to feed on a human corpse without getting wailed on by humans, I'd activate this special ability that turned the Turelim grey with an orange glow and made him either immune or highly resistant to damage. It lasted just long enough for me to feed without getting killed by enemy arrows.

RemovedQuasar
21st Oct 2013, 22:31
Ehehe i'm even curios to see some video but i think that alpha testers doesen't have to make any video of the game.

By the way, Melchiahim could gain different powers when they wear the skin of the enemies. A different skin for a different power.

TenebraeAeterna
21st Oct 2013, 22:32
If it's not in the existing videos, I won't be able to show you. I can describe it though. Whenever I wanted to feed on a human corpse without getting wailed on by humans, I'd activate this special ability that turned the Turelim grey with an orange glow and made him either immune or highly resistant to damage. It lasted just long enough for me to feed without getting killed by enemy arrows.

Interesting.

It's good to see that they're trying to incorporate the telekinetic powers however they can without infringing upon the human's ranged capabilities.

The_Hylden
21st Oct 2013, 23:51
Plus, characters respawn soon after they're killed to continue their round. It's going to be hard to have the vampires use their corpses if this is the case, without you having cloned corpses of yourself used by the enemy.

Corpses already on the battlefield for use by the Melchiahim, if they're ever implemented, would be awesome, though.

TenebraeAeterna
22nd Oct 2013, 02:23
Plus, characters respawn soon after they're killed to continue their round. It's going to be hard to have the vampires use their corpses if this is the case, without you having cloned corpses of yourself used by the enemy.

Corpses already on the battlefield for use by the Melchiahim, if they're ever implemented, would be awesome, though.

Well, I was thinking about something along the lines of being able to pick these corpses up for only a few moments before you're forced to lobe them at your adversaries or just automatically toss it aside. If it was short enough, I wouldn't expect it to interfere visually with the resurrected owner of said corpse. Still, I can see it potentially being problematic...so, I understand what you're saying.

As for the Melchiahim,

I still like the idea of the Melchiahim being a sort of summoner type class where they can call forth two to four very weak fledgling Melchiahim to aid them in battle. However, unlike most pet classes, these summoned Melchiahim wouldn't drift too far from the player and give a zombie horde type sensation. They would all act as one entity, in a sense.

ZeroFernir
22nd Oct 2013, 11:22
Plus, characters respawn soon after they're killed to continue their round. It's going to be hard to have the vampires use their corpses if this is the case, without you having cloned corpses of yourself used by the enemy.

Corpses already on the battlefield for use by the Melchiahim, if they're ever implemented, would be awesome, though.

I do not see why having clones is a bad thing. I would love to see lots of corpses in the ground.

The_Hylden
22nd Oct 2013, 15:16
If you have a custom character and a vampire is running around with your corpse, while you're playing, that would be distracting and silly to me.

If there are corpses already on the battlefield for use in this manner, then fine.

4nkkah
22nd Oct 2013, 15:52
If you have a custom character and a vampire is running around with your corpse, while you're playing, that would be distracting and silly to me.

If there are corpses already on the battlefield for use in this manner, then fine.
"Give me my corpse back!"
"lolnope ashuehue"
cue http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MK6TXMsvgQg

ZeroFernir
23rd Oct 2013, 01:06
If you have a custom character and a vampire is running around with your corpse, while you're playing, that would be distracting and silly to me.

If there are corpses already on the battlefield for use in this manner, then fine.

That is a nice idea =D

TenebraeAeterna
23rd Oct 2013, 15:44
If you have a custom character and a vampire is running around with your corpse, while you're playing, that would be distracting and silly to me.

If there are corpses already on the battlefield for use in this manner, then fine.

In combination to the potential "summoning" (with the visual of them rising forth from the ground as though they had always been there.) of Melchiahim fledglings, I think it would also be great if Melchiahim players were capable of burrowing under the ground to set up an ambush. It also seems appropriate that killing a Melchiahim would release some sort of noxious gas which causes a sort of status effect to reflect a sickness obtained from their putrid, festering, entrails being fully exposed.

This would make them the ultimate ambush class.

You lie in wait under the ground and then burst forth whenever an enemy passes overhead. Even if you die, they become inflicted with the disease that your putrid corpse releases upon death...making them far easier to pick off for allied vampires. Maybe it makes them hobble slowly, attack slower, something other than a DOT because I'd like to see DOT's given to the Zephonim's attacks.

lordbane2110
24th Oct 2013, 17:19
Yeah DoT to the Spider Vamps, not sure how they'd implement it either, but god damn it I want Zephonim and soon

TenebraeAeterna
24th Oct 2013, 19:30
Yeah DoT to the Spider Vamps, not sure how they'd implement it either, but god damn it I want Zephonim and soon

Were I the one doing it,

Their basic attack would inflict a DOT effect that increased in effectiveness for each consecutive attack: the DOT of the initial attack wouldn't be as powerful as the DOT inflected by several repeated attacks. Basically, the effect would stack in a sense and reward Zephonim who land several attacks before fleeing.

I would then give the them a defensive lunging capability that's designed for the complete opposite effect to the Dumahim's lunge attack. This would be used for escape and provide the Zephonim the ability to quickly escape danger by leaping onto a nearby wall or ceiling...where they could then use their superior wall crawling capabilities.

Someone who has mastered a Zephonim could, in theory, drop down from a wall or ceiling to assault an enemy and then vanish quickly before they ever even know what's going on. While the enemy begins to panic, noticing the DOT picking apart their health, it's likely that they will flee...opening themselves up for another attack if they haven't yet located the Zephonim. It's possible that you could get in and out of combat quickly, using these hit and run tactics to whittle your enemy down and instill a sense of terror which throws the entire enemy team off their game...making them easier pickings for the other clans as well.

Psychological terror works wonders on an enemy team, and the Zephonim could provide that role perfectly.

Anansios
26th Oct 2013, 01:49
If you have a custom character and a vampire is running around with your corpse, while you're playing, that would be distracting and silly to me.

If there are corpses already on the battlefield for use in this manner, then fine.
I find that to be so negative :/ Besides, I find it hard to think of a corpse being silly when you have a dead person ressurecting moments after being killed :P

Psychologically speaking, It seems very appropriate as Kain's vampires are all resurrected corpses.

@TenebraeAeterna

I think your ideas are particularly inspired! Customization could have Zephonim with options of damage over time or even paralysis/slowing effects. Raziel seemed disdainful of Zephon, perhaps they were poisoner and spies? :)

TenebraeAeterna
26th Oct 2013, 03:59
I find that to be so negative :/ Besides, I find it hard to think of a corpse being silly when you have a dead person ressurecting moments after being killed :P

Psychologically speaking, It seems very appropriate as Kain's vampires are all resurrected corpses.

@TenebraeAeterna

I think your ideas are particularly inspired! Customization could have Zephonim with options of damage over time or even paralysis/slowing effects. Raziel seemed disdainful of Zephon, perhaps they were poisoner and spies? :)

Thanks, hopefully they feel the same and it turns out as well as I anticipate.

The_Hylden
26th Oct 2013, 05:45
I find that to be so negative :/ Besides, I find it hard to think of a corpse being silly when you have a dead person ressurecting moments after being killed :P

I said nothing about a corpse being silly. I said your character's corpse running around while you are would be, and it would be.


Psychologically speaking, It seems very appropriate as Kain's vampires are all resurrected corpses.

And that has nothing to do with not being able to pick up a corpse and use it as a meat shield, or to wear the skin of one. Third time I've noted this, but again if corpses are already on the battlefield for use in whatever manner, then that would be great for either using them as shields, or if we're talking the Melchiahim, then using their skins for fooling the humans.

There's no reason to use the corpse of the human that other players are playing as in order to achieve this.

GeorgeCST
26th Oct 2013, 08:22
So then why not just add civilian human corpses on the battlefields? (there were enough of those in Blood Omen) or are there some map concepts that couldn't support this? .. in the sense that there wouldn;t be human corpses in a vampire city or smth like that :)

Vampmaster
26th Oct 2013, 16:30
If they don't look like any character that either is or could possibly be in the match, how would it fool anyone? I can't see there being any technical requirement that players reuse the same instance of the character model they had before they died.

The only limitations would be on the total number of skins in the level and the total number of instances of those skins. For example, you only have one copy of a texture in memory at a time and just render it as many times as you need to.

Anansios
27th Oct 2013, 03:54
I said nothing about a corpse being silly. I said your character's corpse running around while you are would be, and it would be.



And that has nothing to do with not being able to pick up a corpse and use it as a meat shield, or to wear the skin of one. Third time I've noted this, but again if corpses are already on the battlefield for use in whatever manner, then that would be great for either using them as shields, or if we're talking the Melchiahim, then using their skins for fooling the humans.

There's no reason to use the corpse of the human that other players are playing as in order to achieve this.

I wasn't very clear, because I thought my point would be more easily understood; laziness on my part :P

I doubt I'd sway your opinion but I think it makes perfect sense to use the exact corpse you just created. Imagine I slew an Alchemist and grabbed the corpse, as a Tyrant or Melchiahim, and suddenly a generic male corpse appeared in my claws/hands.

THAT would strike me as silly. Lol.

I would also think that when a vampire feeds on a slain human, said vampire should feed on the human that they slew and not some generic corpse.


If they don't look like any character that either is or could possibly be in the match, how would it fool anyone?
I could not agree more! That would be perfect for Melchiahim! For Tyrants, why not use who you just killed? The origin poster did specify a time limit on the corpse's use.



I can't see there being any technical requirement that players reuse the same instance of the character model they had before they died.

Vampmaster
27th Oct 2013, 08:59
Actually, a couple of technical issues would be the get up from ragdoll, which wouldn't be needed if they could just copy the skin setup over to the melchiahim and delete the corpse.

However that still leaves the problem that the melchiahim would either need to have the same animations as the skin it took if it's going to wear the skin.

Maybe it wouldn't be too bad if attacking gave them away, so at least then they could still use their own attacks. Or maybe just copy the textures so the melchiahim would just look distorted so their skin isn't a perfect fit.

TenebraeAeterna
28th Oct 2013, 16:08
To those of you who are disputing what Hylden has to say, he's expressing that it is silly in situations where the person you just killed comes across an occurrence of their previous body being used in any manner. In a way, this breaks immersion because you're now in a situation where you're looking at a clone of yourself...and that IS silly. That's why he said that a Mechiahim ability that used corpses would be cool only if there were already NP corpses upon the field to begin with. That way, you wouldn't have a situation where a human player comes across their own body being used.

With that said, to Hylden, what I was saying with the Tyrants shouldn't be effected by this. If the ability has a limited duration...you will have used the corpse before the player has respawned...thus avoiding these encounters of clone bodies. You could only use the corpse temporarily, and then you would be forced to toss it...which would happen before the enemy respawned, thus they would never see their own body being used.

I agree with you, seeing your own body as a human would be very lame...and make you feel less significant when it comes to immersion value.

Vampmaster
28th Oct 2013, 16:40
I guess if you're going back to the original suggestion of just using it as a shield as opposed to a disguise that was suggested later, then no there wouldn't be a need to look like any human. If it is a disguise, it would be completely useless if it there was no way to mistake it for someone on the opposite team. Also, I don't remember the respawn time being long enough to get any use of something like that. You could get as little as 5 or 10 seconds out of it before the enemy respawned and needed the character model back.

As for the Turelim having the ability, why would they need it when they already have the telekinetic deflection ability? Stealing skins/corpses was *always* the Melchiahim's thing. The whole thing about the Turelim being glass cannons (and therefore needing the extra protection) was all in a very small number of people's heads.

TenebraeAeterna
28th Oct 2013, 17:29
I guess if you're going back to the original suggestion of just using it as a shield as opposed to a disguise that was suggested later, then no there wouldn't be a need to look like any human. If it is a disguise, it would be completely useless if it there was no way to mistake it for someone on the opposite team. Also, I don't remember the respawn time being long enough to get any use of something like that. You could get as little as 5 or 10 seconds out of it before the enemy respawned and needed the character model back.

As for the Turelim having the ability, why would they need it when they already have the telekinetic deflection ability? Stealing skins/corpses was *always* the Melchiahim's thing. The whole thing about the Turelim being glass cannons (and therefore needing the extra protection) was all in a very small number of people's heads.

I was just speaking in terms of the original idea involving the Tyrants. I never considered the Turelim to be glass cannons, so I don't know where you got that idea from. This was just an ability that seemed to fit them and provide a sort of defensive capability for the huge lumbering tank...which is how I seen them. I wasn't initially aware that they had a telekinetic deflection ability until someone informed me of such later within this very thread, I believe. I don't have alpha access.

As for the Melchihim and any possibility that they could flay the flesh off a corpse and then use it as a means to present themselves as a member of the humans, I don't think it would be that effective. Now days, most people who actually get into team oriented games use some sort of team speak...and with so few players, you're going to be hard pressed to confuse the enemy.

Unless I'm mistaken, it's five against five right? There's also no friendly fire within the game to discourage a test shot to ensure that such and such is really who they claim rather than a Melchiahim imposture. So, as twisted and awesome a concept it is in theory...I just don't see it really playing out well in game. If they players don't simply communicate well via voice...they're going to start test shotting each other and completely nullifying the entire point.

Then, all you have is an interesting ability that rarely works and breaks a bit of the immersion by having a human player potentially combating a mirror image of himself on the field of battle. Lore wise...how is he wearing my flesh if I am alive?

That's the silly part that's being pointed out...and I just don't believe that it will be effective enough to really justify that situation. Though, let me say that it is an awesome concept that would play out perfectly in some good fan fiction. I can easily see the Melchiahim being spies for the clans, wearing the flesh of humans as a means to infiltrate behind enemy lines until their disguise rots away... Such a terror instilling idea, and one that would truly be disturbing in the lore.

The_Hylden
29th Oct 2013, 03:56
I'm glad that you understood what I meant, TenebraeAeterna. :) I haven't been downing your ideas, just that one aspect did I give my honest opinion on. I only ever used the word silly to describe what seeing my own fallen corpse in the hands of another would be to me, but certainly never labeling your whole ideas as such. Shame it was ever taken that way.

As Vampmaster said, the duration of the respawn isn't that long, but this also goes to the odd point brought up about vampires feeding on your human corpse ... it is long enough for that, which has, of course, never been an issue. If it could be implemented even for that long, then I think it would be a great ability for any of the classes to have. Say, during the downtime of the human's death, your vampire has the option to feed, or if you're under fire, pick up the corpse and rush the human firing on you. It would be enough time to use it for that purpose, or to combine it with a charge in general. You get a timer counting down, or a wheel above, like the cool-down wheel for powers, and you get to use that shield for however long it takes for the counter to dissipate. Once it does, your vampire will toss the corpse aside, simultaneously coinciding with the dead player's resurrection.

So, I wouldn't be opposed to any of that. I am not sure the respawn time is enough, but you can do a charge, a rush, and a few attacks in 5-10 seconds, and it might be a bit longer with more people on the servers. We played without any issues like that, with just our tiny group.


I also have said I never had an issue with the Melchahim picking up corpses, and I think given this war, that every map should have strewn about it human and vampire corpses (would be a great visual if vampires were dismembered and staked/impaled). You're fighting a small squad against another, yes, but it's implied that in all maps, this is a human army against the vampires' forces. Especially if it's within vampire territory, having corpses on the ground of similar skins as your team would really sell that this is a larger scale force invading the vamps. It would seem foolish to me for the humans to go into such overwhelmingly dangerous places without a large force, too.

I also don't think the Melchiahim using the corpses to fool others would be a problem. Yes, everyone's miced, but from what I've heard, it's kind of chaotic trying to keep up with all the chatter, and the match moves so quickly that it could be possible to fool the human side, especially if the Melchaihim doesn't attack until the right moment, and perhaps it takes enough damage before the skin tears apart from them and the jig is up. If their "skin" is clad in armor and they carry the same weapons, then you could really open up a really tricky strategy play. The weapons don't have to work, if they wish to keep it melee only for vampires, but it will sell the image of the human, until they get within striking range, or can separate one of the humans from the group. Imagine you as a human follow this other human, because you think he's on your side, and yet he's leading you away from the others, which means you're dead, heh.

So, this would give both the Melchiahim and Zephonim, with some of your ides up there, the appropriate tools to make up for them not being as strong as the other clans, like these are their stealth and subterfuge strategies they've used when fighting the other clans and what they instinctively do here against the humans.


Edit: Additional thought came to be about the pick up the corpse and rush thing... You know, the other great thing you could do with a corpse? Pick it up and toss it, as a weapon :) That would be a great nod back to one of the best things about crazy Kain in BO2, heh, while giving this move some additional carnage factor :thumb:

TenebraeAeterna
29th Oct 2013, 13:48
No worries,

I wasn't under the impression that you were downing any of my ideas...simply that you were presenting the opinion that encountering your own corpse may be a bit silly, which I completely agree with. I don't have access to alpha right now, and I most likely won't obtain it due to my computer consisting of a year old Dell laptop, so I can only speculate based upon what little I know about regarding the game mechanics. I fully expect that many things I consider a possibility for incorporation may need a little tweaking.

With that said, the length of allowed time for feeding upon a corpse is exactly what I was thinking when coming up with this idea. :) Like you, I don't enjoy the thought of coming across my corpse...but I figured that the respawn time would permit a short duration for the situation that I presented. I can easily see a multitude of situations where a Tyrant would need to use his freshly slain enemy as a meat shield rather than a feed.

As for tossing it towards the enemy, my initial thought was that this would all be a physical act; with the Tyrants having some telekinetic capabilities, however, it makes much more sense for them to use this in combination with their brute strength. So, I think that launching these corpses off through some sort of telekinetic pulse would be awesome...perhaps even the lifting itself being done through telekinesis as a preparation for the toss. This would really tie the Tyrants into their racial ability as we know it.

As for the Melchiahim, I really do adore the idea of them being able to literally flay the flesh off a corpse and wear it as a means to infiltrate the enemy. As it stands, this is a type of infiltration that none of the other clans could even hope to accomplish and fits the Melchiahim exceptionally well. Truth be told, I'm starting to see so many options for the Melchiahim now that we have all been hashing out ideas...

- Wearing the flesh of humans.
- Burrowing.
- Summoning weaker fledglings from the depths.
- A corpse explosion upon death that deals some damage and then creates a disease cloud that inflicts humans with some sort of disability.

I really think that the Melchiahim should be a completely doable clan, when I initially thought that they would be one of the more difficult clans to flesh out.

Anyway, as for the wearing of human flesh to infiltrate the enemy, so long as it works I'm all for it. If there are an abundance of corpses spread about the field of battle...it's very possible that this could be done in a way that didn't encounter the problem we both see involving a player comes across their own corpse being used by the enemy. If you think that this could still work, that the chaos involved would make it difficult for the enemy to tell who was a Melchiahim imposter until it was too late, I am all for it. It's an awesome ability that makes complete sense from a lore point of view.

With that said...it would work even better in a game mode that was similar to dynasty warriors...where the players of each team are literally fighting with armies of their respective race. The players would be the generals seeking one another out amongst a perpetual sea of lesser humans and vampires clashing against one another...

I can see a game mode like that being downright awesome.

lordbane2110
29th Oct 2013, 14:08
Yeah with so many humans and vampires fighting around you, the Melchiahim ability to steal the skin of an enemy to wear would be very powerful, if however it's still going to be limited to 5 vs 5.

then I offer another take on this idea, much like the human corpses, why not have them resemble the human classes, that why there's ample human skins that look very close to the human classes currently fighting, that why you could still have the skin stealing ability, and they would have to get very close to see through the disguise

or the skin has a limited lifespan, say 30 seconds (to simulate the rotting effect) and the longer the Melcharim where's the skin about that time, the more likely the humans will be able to see through the ruse

Vampmaster
29th Oct 2013, 14:57
What if the Melchiahim had a partial phasing ability. Like allowing human weapons to pass through them or solidifying their hand inside of a humans chest? It wouldn't require a redesign of a level like phasing through parts of the environment would, but it could still allow for other interesting mechanics.

What about leaving arrows sticking out of their bodies that would damage the attacker or maybe bones like the ones sticking out of Melchiah's back. (That last one might just have been concept art, but could still work.) Maybe they could be expelled at a crucial moment for radial damage.

EDIT: I just read the part that Daniel mentioned about the Dumahim also being like an Oni. I can definitely see the resemblance after looking up some pics and would hope that SE/Psyonix can include a few of those traits as well. Maybe a head varient or some heavier armour. (No need for a whole new rig, as I tried to explain to Eric regarding the Razielim.)

TenebraeAeterna
29th Oct 2013, 17:18
What if the Melchiahim had a partial phasing ability. Like allowing human weapons to pass through them or solidifying their hand inside of a humans chest? It wouldn't require a redesign of a level like phasing through parts of the environment would, but it could still allow for other interesting mechanics.

What about leaving arrows sticking out of their bodies that would damage the attacker or maybe bones like the ones sticking out of Melchiah's back. (That last one might just have been concept art, but could still work.) Maybe they could be expelled at a crucial moment for radial damage.

EDIT: I just read the part that Daniel mentioned about the Dumahim also being like an Oni. I can definitely see the resemblance after looking up some pics and would hope that SE/Psyonix can include a few of those traits as well. Maybe a head varient or some heavier armour. (No need for a whole new rig, as I tried to explain to Eric regarding the Razielim.)

Ah yes, the phase shifting concept...

Forgot all about that one, another great idea for the Melchiahim.

lordbane2110
31st Oct 2013, 09:51
Yeah the phasing could be really cool, with Melchiahim only shortcuts through Iron Gates or bars, through some levels

Vampmaster
31st Oct 2013, 12:13
Yeah the phasing could be really cool, with Melchiahim only shortcuts through Iron Gates or bars, through some levels

As I explained, the full body phasing through the environment will require Psyonix to redesign entire levels to allow for it. I don't think they're going to want to do that, which it why I tried to point out other ways the phasing ability could be used.

Even *partial* phasing could have uses like I described.

The_Hylden
31st Oct 2013, 13:38
Yes, if seen at all I'd prefer it to be as Vampmaster proposed. Besides the possible technical limitation, I simply wouldn't want the Melchiahim to be that evolved in their abilities. Phasing through realms fully like that is a bit much for this time period, I think (due to how "new" it should feel by the time Raziel wakes up).

TenebraeAeterna
31st Oct 2013, 17:18
Yes, if seen at all I'd prefer it to be as Vampmaster proposed. Besides the possible technical limitation, I simply wouldn't want the Melchiahim to be that evolved in their abilities. Phasing through realms fully like that is a bit much for this time period, I think (due to how "new" it should feel by the time Raziel wakes up).

I'm perfectly fine with that...

A partial phase ability that lets them avoid incoming damage by having it pass right through them would be a very effective trick, and tie them in further with the clan we all know and love. There's a lot that can be done with them, more than I had initially expected.

IKathaarI
31st Oct 2013, 23:58
When it comes to the Melchiahim, I think taking on an ability more similar to the Lieutenant then the Fledglings would be more fitting for gameplay;

Let Melchiahim phase through gates/thin barriers. And leave these kind of barriers throughout the map, linking together shortcuts and bypasses for the Melchiahim to slip around the map quicker than any other Vampire (except maybe the Razielim, but would be harder to detect due to line of sight). This could have a limited usage to prevent abuse or making the class overpowered, or give it a delay, much like Raziel in SR1, it takes a couple seconds to initiate phasing.

TendrilSavant
1st Nov 2013, 00:38
Let Melchiahim phase through gates/thin barriers.

As much as I'd like for all the vampire clans abilities to be stricly lore friendly, this ability doesn't fit with the gameplay they are aiming for Nosgoth. The biggest problem with this ability is that in theory it would be used to traverse the map stealthily, but in practice most players would abuse is as a quick escape mechanic.

When making a PvP arena game, you have to make sure the action is exciting and fast paced. This ability would encourage too much a defensive strategy for the side that is suppose to be aggressive, the vampires. That being said I would love some variation of phasing in combat for the Melchiahim (a bit biased since I suggested it in another thread, I know).

On a side note, why do we keep talking about Melchiahim on a Turelim thread? Someone should probably start some Official [Insert Clan Name] Discussion Threads so we can keep all the community ideas in one place.

TenebraeAeterna
1st Nov 2013, 14:17
As much as I'd like for all the vampire clans abilities to be stricly lore friendly, this ability doesn't fit with the gameplay they are aiming for Nosgoth. The biggest problem with this ability is that in theory it would be used to traverse the map stealthily, but in practice most players would abuse is as a quick escape mechanic.

When making a PvP arena game, you have to make sure the action is exciting and fast paced. This ability would encourage too much a defensive strategy for the side that is suppose to be aggressive, the vampires. That being said I would love some variation of phasing in combat for the Melchiahim (a bit biased since I suggested it in another thread, I know).

On a side note, why do we keep talking about Melchiahim on a Turelim thread? Someone should probably start some Official [Insert Clan Name] Discussion Threads so we can keep all the community ideas in one place.

Stop being a party pooper.


I kid, I kid.

Vampmaster
1st Nov 2013, 15:40
On a side note, why do we keep talking about Melchiahim on a Turelim thread?

That's because someone wanted to give Turel one of Melchiahs abilities. The Melchiahim were the ones who stole the flesh from their victim's corpses.

IKathaarI
2nd Nov 2013, 01:17
As much as I'd like for all the vampire clans abilities to be stricly lore friendly, this ability doesn't fit with the gameplay they are aiming for Nosgoth. The biggest problem with this ability is that in theory it would be used to traverse the map stealthily, but in practice most players would abuse is as a quick escape mechanic.

When making a PvP arena game, you have to make sure the action is exciting and fast paced. This ability would encourage too much a defensive strategy for the side that is suppose to be aggressive, the vampires. That being said I would love some variation of phasing in combat for the Melchiahim (a bit biased since I suggested it in another thread, I know).

On a side note, why do we keep talking about Melchiahim on a Turelim thread? Someone should probably start some Official [Insert Clan Name] Discussion Threads so we can keep all the community ideas in one place.

That's the beauty of balancing, if the ability to phase through gates has a delay (think SR1) then it can't be abused for quick escapes and requires some pre-meditation if it's going to be used.

TendrilSavant
2nd Nov 2013, 02:14
Stop being a party pooper.


I'll try, no promises though.


That's the beauty of balancing, if the ability to phase through gates has a delay (think SR1) then it can't be abused for quick escapes and requires some pre-meditation if it's going to be used.

Sure, I see your point. But it all depends on the level design and how the human side plays. I've given my two cents on how that class could work from what I know of the game, without any firsthand experience. Once I actually get a chance to play it my views may change, but until then I'm sticking to phasing in combat for how the Melchahim class could work.

IKathaarI
3rd Nov 2013, 04:16
I'll wait to play myself and see if I can't dig up some real suggestions=P

lordbane2110
7th Nov 2013, 09:54
"Face Palms" dig up, still i suppose if your gonna do a pun you might as well do it here

Sylvastreak
11th Nov 2013, 23:09
unfortunately I don't think the puns will ever be buried when it comes to the Melchiahim...

lordbane2110
14th Nov 2013, 11:00
you could say we have unearthed them