PDA

View Full Version : The good old way



beinlich
2nd Mar 2007, 13:08
(excuse bad english please)

Anyone else who thinks the new way to move Lara around has totally left the series in a cold dark place, in which there is not joy nor hapiness? I think the old quadratic world which fitted Laras jumps to perfection was the hole point of these games. She would never let me down by falling in a ditch if I controlled her in the correct manner. She would never run in a nondesired direction if I asked her politely. She would never get spasms or get stuck in thin air if I didnt try to make it happen, and probably not even then.
Why oh why have they disembowelled the series. Looking back there is no doubt, the series was ruined by changing "up is forward" to "touch the controller and off she goes somewhere!".

Anyone else who misses the feel of absolutely total control when playing the game?

I wont by another until (and this will probably never happen) they change back the controls.

ditom
2nd Mar 2007, 13:41
I like new controls (I mean TRL).
But this is my opinion.

Inn_Hevonn_Klann
2nd Mar 2007, 14:02
Yeah, those are more easy to use! And they also give us more freedom!! With the old ones, we could not even roll, we couldn't even (almost)move!

shirl123
2nd Mar 2007, 15:25
Yeah, those are more easy to use! And they also give us more freedom!! With the old ones, we could not even roll, we couldn't even (almost)move!

yes, they give us more freedom this way, but it makes us the player less ..."accurate". way less. and if the auto-grab will be turned off, then it'll make the game-play quite difficult, and IMO not in a good way. ;) I hope they'll add a "camera lock" option.
"couldn't move"? I strongly disagree, it was very easy to control Lara on the early games...unless you're talking about AOD. :nut:

Phlip
2nd Mar 2007, 15:28
Anyone else who misses the feel of absolutely total control when playing the game?


And when the hell did we ever not get total control over Lara?

Tell me. Please. This is not a rhetorical question (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhetorical_question).

doctor willard
2nd Mar 2007, 16:21
i was allways used to walking towards ledges to not fall off them but ledgend got rid of that idea and now she moves around like the prince of persia which is ok but not that great :(

LisaB1962
2nd Mar 2007, 16:36
There was an utter and complete accuracy with the old controls that I do miss when my thumb isn't hurting. :D It was like having a tool box---you'd look at the job and figure out which tool would do exactly what you needed to do. The moves themselves became part of the strategy. And Lara did exactly what I told her to do when I told her to do it. She didn't argue with me by doing some preprogrammed schtick like MS Word is wont to do with initial caps. No, I want it to say "cc:" not "Cc:"!

Losing the autograb is a step in the right direction to regaining some of that control, but I'd rather gunfighting to be more intuitive in that Lara should turn and aim at the nearest enemy (like she used to) rather than the wall, forcing me to turn Lara AND the camera---geez, I hate FPSs. :mad2:

Treeble
2nd Mar 2007, 17:14
I still have to play the PC version (hopefully by Monday I will be able to, on my brother's! :D ); but the GCN/PS2 versions offered a much, much, MUCH better and way improved control over the previous releases, especially taking into account the jerky PSX controller (which to this day remains the same... :rolleyes: ) and the precision required on previous games. Fail a jump, and you're staring at a loading screen for another 30 seconds; only to try and fail again because the control setup was a complete mess...

The first five games were pretty easy and precise on the PC though. Can't say that about AOD. Not that it matters, we all know what the controles were like in that game... ;) "Intuitive"? Certainly not.

Inn_Hevonn_Klann
2nd Mar 2007, 19:21
The thing is that with "I prefer the new controls" is only for consoles! If you're talking about PC's I definitly prefer the old ones!!!!! Were definitly more easy

Taylour
2nd Mar 2007, 21:35
I really love the new controls. I was playing TR2 (again) and almost thre my controller trying to go aroud some turns, because Lara would hit the wall, I'd have to back up, and then turn and start again (which sucks if you are running from something).

I love the first game and the control system. I DO want auto-grab optional (just incase I don't actually like having the other way).

And NO OFFENSE, but you probably won't ever play another Tomb Raider game, go get LE and start making your own.

Treeble
2nd Mar 2007, 22:01
you probably won't ever play another Tomb Raider game

Erm, what of Legend and Anniversary? Just because the control system and developer have changed, it still bears the Tomb Raider logo and shall be treated as such if even Angel of Darkness was. :rasp:

G4mefr3ak88
2nd Mar 2007, 22:08
I also say the new controls are the best, the ones in Legend. I didn't like AOD controls much but it wasn't impossible to get from A to B.

Inn_Hevonn_Klann
2nd Mar 2007, 22:14
What I mean is that for PC they're just too complicated! Only if you have big hands you can play! One finger on E and then Space and the mouse at the same time...:scratch: ****

Jontif
2nd Mar 2007, 22:58
Its strange because when I played TR1 & 2 on the PS recently I felt like I was getting in my old and favourite car. The controls felt right, comfortable in fact that is just it. I didnt feel like I was controlling Lara more that it was natural, I could do things I wanted to do and have absolute control over how and why things happened. In Legend she seems to slip around all over the place and the controls didnt feel intuitive - like driving someone elses car - I was more conscious that I wouldnt crash the damn thing.... lol

munchkin
3rd Mar 2007, 00:38
Its strange because when I played TR1 & 2 on the PS recently I felt like I was getting in my old and favourite car. The controls felt right, comfortable in fact that is just it. I didnt feel like I was controlling Lara more that it was natural, I could do things I wanted to do and have absolute control over how and why things happened. In Legend she seems to slip around all over the place and the controls didnt feel intuitive - like driving someone elses car - I was more conscious that I wouldnt crash the damn thing.... lol


I do know what you mean... to this day when i hold a PSX/2 controller my hand automatically go into TR 2/3/4/5 mode :)

But i love the TRL controls they are so intuative, there is no battle to make Lara run where you wish or hand cramp from holding X to make sure Lara remains safe on ledges and when shimmying :)

beccaxx

pinkangel07
3rd Mar 2007, 05:49
I cannot believe there are people who actually prefer the old controls. What is happening to the world?!?!?! Of course, I'm a PS person. The PC controls are impossible for me on every game. I hate it.

Gah, I can only remember how slowly she turned... and how running jumps had to be EXACT... and that jump sequence from TRChronicles that I still have serious issues with... ::shudders::

It honestly takes away from the overall enjoyment of the game. The old TRs were exceedingly frustrating at times, and I felt Lara had her own little plans at times. "No, WALK, WALK, WALK!!!! 'ahhh, ahhh, ::crunch::'" - Theme from Thames Wharf

RuumTaedor
3rd Mar 2007, 06:16
I cannot believe there are people who actually prefer the old controls. What is happening to the world?!?!?! Of course, I'm a PS person. The PC controls are impossible for me on every game. I hate it.

Yep, I'm one of those who prefer the classic controls. I don't dislike the Legend controls, I just prefer the classic controls. I should also clarify I prefer the classic controls in Windows ie on the keyboard (I don't have any consoles). I'm used to keyboard controls, so if I had no choice but to use a gamepad on a console, I probably wouldn't like it as much. When I play Legend, I miss the ol' side jumping and walk forward and backward and the sidestepping (strafe).

beinlich
3rd Mar 2007, 09:35
And when the hell did we ever not get total control over Lara?

Tell me. Please. This is not a rhetorical question (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhetorical_question).


If you try to read the first entry in this thread, you should be able to find the answer...
Anyways, I will spell it out for you:

"when they changed up is forward" to "touch the controller and off she goes somewhere".
Understand now?

I saw this example above who really get the point out there:
Angel of Darkness and later games - try walking on the end of a cliff.
Erlier games than AoD - try the same and enjoy total control.

I would be happy to read more serious comments from people who actually have played the series before PS2.

beinlich
3rd Mar 2007, 09:40
Erm, what of Legend and Anniversary? Just because the control system and developer have changed, it still bears the Tomb Raider logo and shall be treated as such if even Angel of Darkness was. :rasp:

Erm, yes what about them???? I started the thread thinking about the Playstation-controls.

beinlich
3rd Mar 2007, 09:56
I also say the new controls are the best, the ones in Legend. I didn't like AOD controls much but it wasn't impossible to get from A to B.

I just can not understand how you can be happy with less control over Lara. There is a very good entry above who compares Laras old controls to a toolbox. Thats how I feel also.

But I have to ask everyone who likes the new controls better (I mean Playstation controls): when the camera changes its position in AoD and Legend, dont you find it irritating when Lara suddenly runs in the wrong direction??

And another: In AoD and Legend, have you ever fallen into a hole of some sort when trying not to?? Walking is just touch the D-pad, running is push the D-pad. But when in a hurry, and probably even when not in a hurry, there is a fine line between the two. A key element in these games is to walk up to ledges, as close as possible.
This problem is easy to solve.
I say - up is forward. Hold L1 and you will never fall, ever.

beinlich
3rd Mar 2007, 09:58
I also say the new controls are the best, the ones in Legend. I didn't like AOD controls much but it wasn't impossible to get from A to B.

I dont think we need a game where it actually is IMPOSSIBLE to get from A to B before we can call the controls crap.

beinlich
3rd Mar 2007, 10:04
Its strange because when I played TR1 & 2 on the PS recently I felt like I was getting in my old and favourite car. The controls felt right, comfortable in fact that is just it. I didnt feel like I was controlling Lara more that it was natural, I could do things I wanted to do and have absolute control over how and why things happened. In Legend she seems to slip around all over the place and the controls didnt feel intuitive - like driving someone elses car - I was more conscious that I wouldnt crash the damn thing.... lol


Yes! Thats what I feel also. She slips around all over the place. Well put.

I really wonder about how much those who perfer later controls have played the earlier games.
Well, wel..

phixgrrrl
6th Mar 2007, 05:35
Oh yes, old controls ON PC were wonderful! In fact, every game I would play on the PC I tuned to the "tombraider" controls...Alt=jump, shift=walk, O=look...oh I loved that look feature, where you look ONLY if you want to and otherwise the camera is always behind you...how i miss it. And auto-target...wow I'm getting depressed.
Unless you have a stick to move Lara in the latest game, its damn unplayable and so f***ing frustrating! Hence, I didnt buy it. Why buy a crappy game? Controls go out the window, I dont buy it. Very simple. Too bad...TR WAS my fav. game.... :(
:mad2:

CatSuit&Ponytail
6th Mar 2007, 09:43
Oh yes, old controls ON PC were wonderful! In fact, every game I would play on the PC I tuned to the "tombraider" controls...Alt=jump, shift=walk, O=look...oh I loved that look feature, where you look ONLY if you want to and otherwise the camera is always behind you...how i miss it. And auto-target...wow I'm getting depressed.
Unless you have a stick to move Lara in the latest game, its damn unplayable and so !!!!! < **** > frustrating! Hence, I didnt buy it. Why buy a crappy game? Controls go out the window, I dont buy it. Very simple. Too bad...TR WAS my fav. game.... :(


I also changed every other PC game's controls to the Tomb Raider ones if I could, because they just were perfect. These days I feel like I am in a battle to control Lara and the camera too. Those thumb paddle D-pads are murder, and I should not have to resort to hooking up a gamepad to my PC to play Tomb Raider. :rolleyes: So, it's a mixed bag, I am getting used to the gamepad on the consoles way of moving Lara, but I pine for the PC controls of the old Tomb Raider games. I would prefer to play Tomb Raider on my PC, with the old control system. Look. Crouch. Strafe. <^>v. Jump. Action. Run. Walk. Roll.... bliss ;)

phixgrrrl
6th Mar 2007, 22:13
And also the fact you cannot stop at a ledge, I dont think. I really liked that feature. I don't know of any game that has that. And moving the camera independent of where the character is moving is so much extra work. I like the oldschool where the camera is always looking forward, like Lara, and if you need to look around you can.
I think in the new game you should have the option to control that way. Silent hill got it right by having two ways to control the char.: 1) the character moves in the direction of the pad or 2) front is forward, back is backward, left or right is left or right, and you always face the way you're walking...AND there is a "look" button IF you need it. That way I can focus on the task and not the annoying controls.
It's like buying a car...if you cannot, for the life of you, steer the car, you are not going to buy it, no matter if it's the best car under the sun. If you can't control it, it's worthless!
The new controls are a lot like an FPS, one of the reasons I hate them.

munchkin
7th Mar 2007, 00:46
Yes! Thats what I feel also. She slips around all over the place. Well put.

I really wonder about how much those who perfer later controls have played the earlier games.
Well, wel..

each game? well over 200 times including Legend barring AOD which is around 50,

so no i can;t say i've played the older games :lol: :lol: :lol:

and while i agree the AOD controls where horrible, Legends PS2 controls are a dream :)

becca :p

aussie500
7th Mar 2007, 04:59
l have played all the previous games on both PC and playstation, and l thought the Legend controls were fantastic, you could actually play the game without worrying about moving Lara. No more step back before you jump, no more running into walls because she did not turn fast enough, we can look around now without stopping to use the look button. The old controls might have been fine for a Lara that moves like a tank, but modern games need something a little more responsive, and flexible

phixgrrrl
7th Mar 2007, 23:45
Completely disagree...but that's me I guess. I guess us minorities will never get what we want...although having the option to control one way or the other would please all parties involved...

CatSuit&Ponytail
8th Mar 2007, 11:09
I wonder where this "moves like a tank" comes from? She didn't. She was graceful, controlled. With the newer games it's a constant struggle to get her to run where you want her, what with the added camera changing up to left to down at any moment.....Her hopping back was streamlined and controlled, you knew just what she'd do at any moment, how far and where she'd jump, and you didn't have to give up your skill. She'd jump when told, climb when told, and if you run into a wall, what of it? Next time you take the corner better. :)

http://forums.eidosgames.com/images/icons/icon3.gif I played them all on PC, and I think that may be part of the different mentality at work. A keyboard control is a simple ON/OFF impulse, and a key combination alters that by adding other ON/OFF impulses. There is no gradation, you get exactly what you ask for when you hit a key. A gamepad however is a touchy thing. Push a little too hard and she's out of your control. That is why so many automatic moves are built in these days, the controller barely controls at all.http://forums.eidosgames.com/images/icons/icon3.gif


Having said that, the new games are designed with a console controller in mind, so you aim in the general direction of the target interactive object and she'll do the prescripted action. It makes the game smoother, to be sure, if you can adjust from ON/OFF.... ;)

Anniversary is fluid. Lara is graceful, and having gotten a bit used to the new paradigm with Legend, I was happy about how smooth it all seemed. And OMG is it pretty. ;)

Mad Axeman
8th Mar 2007, 16:09
I own and play all the TR's on PS/PS2 so can only comment on PS controls.
IMO the good old days was far better. I can merely reiterate what has been said before,
Lara did as she was told! If she hit a wall or fell off anything it was my fault, not hers. A major part of the games for me was getting the control perfected and not running into walls! Doing backward flips whilst spinning in mid-air and then hanging on was a challenge and, after much swearing and claiming it was impossible, getting it right left a great feeling of satisfaction.
Youn 'uns today don't know they're born!
She also didn't run off in the wrong direction whenever she felt like it :mad2:

LisaB1962
8th Mar 2007, 16:12
I could never understand all the complaints about PSX gen controls or moves either. How naturally Lara moved was one of the things that drew me to the game. In an era where many characters did move like tanks (RE, Dino Crisis,) Lara's agility and sheer naturalness pulled me in. The fact that the moves themselves were part of the strategy of the game, rather than just getting from point A to point B, make the gameplay even more fun.

Everyone complains about how hard the old controls are, but the funny thing is, I find it easier to get Lara to do just about anything in TR4 than to get Dante to do any particular combo with any regularity in DMC3. :scratch:

After having complete control over Lara, having it taken away with preprogrammed shtick that I'm constantly trying to defeat is just as frustrating as having her walk off a ledge in TR2. :confused: But analog is not precise, and preprogrammed shtick is the only way to compensate for the lack of accuracy.

Life is full of little tradeoffs, I know. I just wish I were trading up more frequently.

babywrath
8th Mar 2007, 17:19
I played a bunch of TR1-7 (PC)......miss the permanent 'walk' button.... and! I believe you could walk to a ledge and not go over ,though it is fun to watch her do that gymnastic thing to get back up.

The way I see it you can treat TR like a game:(

-OR-

view it for the astounding,blazing,amazing,infinite color,crystal sound, deep computer, conscious use of skill and creative imagination especially in the production of aesthetic objects;skill acquired by experience, study, or observation ..............THAT IT IS!!!!!AOD was smoking but TRL smoked it I won't look back

...........and taking a walk through a jungle ruin with a girl ,(albeit 2 dementional),who is easy on the eyes is OK too.

I have another post here somewhere ....about how Laras following is going to be more and more single guys who would rather spend time with a 2 dimentional super girl than the alternative.:p

To that end,the smoother,sexyier,more intrapersonal and realistic(smaller breasts please) Lara is, the $$$$ better.Though I'm guessing all the folks at Core,Eidos etc. are MIllionaires and
mortals like me are lucky they feel like "working?".....

Weaving in a fun challenge is Iceing on the cake for me!

I play with SONY STUDIO MONITOR STEREO HEDSETS on ears.....someone took the time to edit in shell caseings hitting various textures of ground:D .
I could go on and on,every step in crunchy snow:cool:

LisaB1962
8th Mar 2007, 18:37
Sorry. I only play for sport. ;)

phixgrrrl
9th Mar 2007, 01:30
Well, I've designed levels and went to school for gaming and yes it can be fun, but it is work! Often 12 hour days work. Lots of people aren't willing to do that. Plus when you work on a game all the time, it takes the fun and mystery out of it. And the average game designer does not make much. The higher ups and publishers are raking it in. The people that actually CREATE the game and make it tangible at all get paid dirt, in comparison. Figures yes?
But I'm a bit digressing. I think there should be an option for control preference...problem solved. What good is this 'work of art', which it is, if you cannot play it? It might as just well be a long video. At least then you're not banging your head and cursing and saying 'so, what was supposed to be fun about this again??'

Treeble
9th Mar 2007, 01:56
What good is this 'work of art', which it is, if you cannot play it? It might as just well be a long video. At least then you're not banging your head and cursing and saying 'so, what was supposed to be fun about this again??'

That'd be AOD, and the issue was rectified with the release of The Action Adventure. Truth, some of the levels were completely cut off and it was rather dull, but hey, that's AOD for you. :p

winston
9th Mar 2007, 08:59
I prefer the old (TR1,2,3,4,5) controls because in the newer games it is annoying to get the camera angle right and sometimes she doesnt move in the direction you want her to.
However, I have to say if I spend a lot of time using the old controls, I get used to them and find it hard for a bit to get back to the new ones but i soon get used to them, and vice versa.

lara-supreme
11th Mar 2007, 17:33
Hi! New to this forum. Looking forward to TRA. After spending lots of time with TR 1-5, I finally decided to try out a Legend demo, before I bought the game. I was very dissappointed. admittedly, I am very much used to the controls of the first 5 games. I had a very hard time controlling Lara, and forget trying to jump from side to side, or backwards, if it is even an option, while shooting. (I am still learning the controls.) I like the old movements, not crazy about the new ones, but perhaps with time and practice I will get used to them. I hope TRA will be a little easier to control Lara. But I still like the old!! :D

dark_angel@134
18th Mar 2007, 18:40
i wanna have the AOD moves, along with the legend moves and watever TRA has in store for us. andher moves in the previous games.she could actually do the back jump of a wall in AOD. for the PC the controls were PAD0 and ALT, in case anyone is interested. she has to dangle on a wall.


Back with the midair turn!!!!!

OldSchoolTRer
20th Mar 2007, 00:58
To anyone who prefers the controls in legends to the controls in TR 1, 2 or 3.

Either you didn't play those games, found it too difficult to master her moves and quit, or never grasped the concept of it and missed many secrets and most of what the game was about.

Tomb Raider is not suppose to be about easy intuituve jumps and grabs. 90% of the game was about making the jumps and using your skill controlling her. For proof I sight the well known level called St. Francis' Folly. This famous, and incredibly hard level was all about controlling Lara. One mistake spelled a bone cracking fall.

When the game had part 2 and 3 they added in new moves. Such as the reverse back flip. Where you would back (or forward) flip, and in mid air, change the direction you were facing. Near the end of the game it actually "made" you use that new move when you climbed up a ladder, only to find it came to an end, but above and behind you was another.. Utilizing the reverse flip (and doing it right) was the only way up.

The difference in the controls is that one does it for you (the weak way), and the other you have to actually do it yourself. Which means you have more control over what, when and where shes does her moves. It also means it will require more skill, and that is why we like them better.

Those who want the easy way.. Fine. I hope they have an option of some kind, old school control, or newbie controls would be appropriate names for them.

And I hope they make some puzzles and levels worth while. I hope they make them real hard, so all the easy way people get frustrated anyway. HAHAHA!

ZXcorr
20th Mar 2007, 10:40
I really REALLY prefer the old controls! It was much better.

LisaB1962
20th Mar 2007, 16:05
I think it's too simple to say "I prefer the old controls" because I don't think the controls were what we preferred.

I think we preferred having complete control over exactly how and when Lara did something. You had to know and use the correct moves to get from point A to point B. There was a often a strategy involved in trying to get to a particular point on the level. The first secret in St. Francis' Folly is a good example. Getting the magnums was another.

Just getting from point A to point B wasn't enough. You had to get from point A to point B correctly and that in and of itself was a puzzle.

munchkin
20th Mar 2007, 16:29
To anyone who prefers the controls in legends to the controls in TR 1, 2 or 3.

Either you didn't play those games, found it too difficult to master her moves and quit, or never grasped the concept of it and missed many secrets and most of what the game was about.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: that cruddy assumption never gets old (not true btw)

Why is it i wonder that those who like Legend just say what it is they like and and leave it at that. Why is it everyone who dislikes it feels the need to be so hyperbolic?


TR first and formost is about fun, immersive video gaming, lets not forget that in the zealot like rush to batter TRL and anyone who likes it.

beccaxx

Lara Cruz
20th Mar 2007, 17:44
Yes, i do miss the good old ways.
Core made everything so un-realistic and brilliant, and the way she moved, well i dont care. I like slow lara more then agile lara because legend and probably anniversary lara is just rushing through the areas while old lara even could 'take her time'.

Going off topic!
And im not optimistic at CD`s work at all.
She moves like a flexible cow in Legend and probably annibersary.
They make cheap moves (like grapple) and makes better graphics and a better controllable lara, and then they took away almost everything about her including her: Jumps, gun posture, way to act, she looks too nice now (not dangerous, just like a ... well.. movie actress) They are giving her alot of clichè moves like wall run.
For me CD`s games has NO atmosphere and Lara is dead and burried, i dont even think im gonna buy it. They make good games, but they are making 'hollywood' clichè`s in them.
And after i saw that banned Core trailer, i totally lost my innterest in CD.
Eidos blew it!


CD`s TR games are too realistic, its not even mystical. Its plain boring, and lara is too good and knows everything in them.

And the colors.
Its so bright and beautiful and CD, while in Core`s work everything was dark and mystical.
I could see a corner and i had to prepare myself for something that could jump out of the dark.

What would you like?
"Im sorry, i only play for sport* ir * Im afraid you`ve been mislread... i only play for sport.
Tomb raider is dead for me. And i know im very negative, though i want Core back, eidos screwed it up!

I got a feeling that TR is going to be like all normal and boring games, and loose its beauty and mystery.
Despite all my anger, i hope i made some points.

munchkin
20th Mar 2007, 22:15
Yes, i do miss the good old ways.
Core made everything so un-realistic and brilliant, and the way she moved, well i dont care. I like slow lara more then agile lara because legend and probably anniversary lara is just rushing through the areas while old lara even could 'take her time'.

Going off topic!
And im not optimistic at CD`s work at all.
She moves like a flexible cow in Legend and probably annibersary.
They make cheap moves (like grapple) and makes better graphics and a better controllable lara, and then they took away almost everything about her including her: Jumps, gun posture, way to act, she looks too nice now (not dangerous, just like a ... well.. movie actress) They are giving her alot of clichè moves like wall run.
For me CD`s games has NO atmosphere and Lara is dead and burried, i dont even think im gonna buy it. They make good games, but they are making 'hollywood' clichè`s in them.
And after i saw that banned Core trailer, i totally lost my innterest in CD.
Eidos blew it!


CD`s TR games are too realistic, its not even mystical. Its plain boring, and lara is too good and knows everything in them.

And the colors.
Its so bright and beautiful and CD, while in Core`s work everything was dark and mystical.
I could see a corner and i had to prepare myself for something that could jump out of the dark.

What would you like?
"Im sorry, i only play for sport* ir * Im afraid you`ve been mislread... i only play for sport.
Tomb raider is dead for me. And i know im very negative, though i want Core back, eidos screwed it up!

I got a feeling that TR is going to be like all normal and boring games, and loose its beauty and mystery.
Despite all my anger, i hope i made some points.


Gee your a little ray of sunshine aren't you.... :p Not mystical? Sooo been to Avalon alot then? Seen any shadow demons lately? Any big sea serpents in rivers in cornwall? Nope? Seems pretty darn mystical to me then :lol:

dear me i mean i can understand not liking legend for a variety of reasons, although i persoanly love it, but saying TRL is not as mystical as the other TR's is just a hoot.

Also might be interested to note, CD have the original creator for Lara Toby Gard.

From what i've seen of the TRA footage CD have built magnificantly on what they achieved with TRL and we are in for oen heck of a treat to see us through till TR8 (please do not rush CD or Eidos :) )

beccaxx

Treeble
20th Mar 2007, 22:33
It's a fight we can't win, Munchkin.

Heads up old school TR'ers (as if we weren't... but anyway... :rolleyes: ), AOD is the direction TR was going to and you can say anything about it, but you just cannot praise it's controls nor say that's a proof of making precise jumps yourself. Even hopping over the rooftops in the very first level made the whole game a chore to play through... and hadn't AOD been a flop, I'm sure TR7 would have had the same crappy controls. After all, Core's main goal with the game was (apparently) to give her breasts a 'realistic bounce'... :rolleyes: At least one thing they did right, even if the only...

gsusfrk
20th Mar 2007, 22:41
I dunt remember if this was in the old game but I hope that we have the limited lives thingy... that'd make it harder....truely i like harder... cuz then it takes longer, but yet more annoying, but not the annoying annoying where you want to throw your computer across the room, the annoying that makes you want to do it again and again and again!! :D:nut:

Treeble
20th Mar 2007, 22:43
TR was never based on lives gameplay. :scratch:

munchkin
20th Mar 2007, 23:44
It's a fight we can't win, Munchkin.

Heads up old school TR'ers (as if we weren't... but anyway... :rolleyes: ),

:) well quite :p


AOD is the direction TR was going to and you can say anything about it, but you just cannot praise it's controls nor say that's a proof of making precise jumps yourself. Even hopping over the rooftops in the very first level made the whole game a chore to play through... and hadn't AOD been a flop, I'm sure TR7 would have had the same crappy controls. After all, Core's main goal with the game was (apparently) to give her breasts a 'realistic bounce'... :rolleyes: At least one thing they did right, even if the only...

ahh yes AOD, the wonderful direction, TR was going *shudder* ****

have to say it seeing both cores vid and CDs vid for TRA the one which got me more excited was CD's and i'm a long standing fan of the Core series (except AOD, which is okay and i do have it and play it on occasion but man that game is such hard work it stops being fun quickly) :)

TRL's and TRA's even better looking evolution is looking good to this old school TR head ...


beccaxx

munchkin
20th Mar 2007, 23:51
I dunt remember if this was in the old game but I hope that we have the limited lives thingy... that'd make it harder....truely i like harder... cuz then it takes longer, but yet more annoying, but not the annoying annoying where you want to throw your computer across the room, the annoying that makes you want to do it again and again and again!! :D:nut:

That is a little Platformer rather than Action Adventure :) Action Adeventures ahve moved beyond "lives". :) TR has never or not o my knowledge and i have all of them for PS been a lives based game

beccaxx

gsusfrk
21st Mar 2007, 02:15
oh....reallly??!! i thought that it was....lol sorry must of been thinking of a sifferent game....but still i think it'd be a great addition :) well... in my opinion

rabid metro
21st Mar 2007, 04:14
this is getting old!

*disclaimer notice: the following events are sad but true*
*please read to the end, since the (lengthy) conclusion will surprise even you!*
*do not try this at home*


To anyone who prefers the controls in legends to the controls in TR 1, 2 or 3.

Either you didn't play those games, found it too difficult to master her moves and quit, or never grasped the concept of it and missed many secrets and most of what the game was about.

or ... the argument is rubbish.

*an example to make a point*

"Anyone who likes the old controls is a booger!!!"

... that would be the second dumbest thing posted here lately.
*he said, appropriately, with lara-style wit and charm*
*changes victi ... urrrmmm ... focus*


Yes, i do miss the good old ways.
Core made everything so un-realistic and brilliant, and the way she moved, well i dont care. I like slow lara more then agile lara because legend and probably anniversary lara is just rushing through the areas while old lara even could 'take her time'.

Going off topic!
And im not optimistic at CD`s work at all.
She moves like a flexible cow in Legend and probably annibersary...
...
Despite all my anger, i hope i made some points.

... :)

*note the clever use of silence, since the point was, ... let's say, oblivious*
;)

with this post, i'm not trying to change anyone's opinions or force you to think my way.
this is an "open" forum, so you can paint any portrait of yourself that you please.
just know that your posts are a picture of you ...

if you don't like Legend or the (apparent) direction of development,
is it necessary to appear grumpy and clueless? ...
*he said, marking his words carefully, so as not to be overly inciteful*

i challenge anyone who doesn't like Legend, etc. to make a case with merit.
i am not implying that that is impossible, or anything,
i'm just saying that, with few exceptions, it remains to be done.
your case will be successful, if, at its conclusion, the "other side" can,
in fairness, say "i see your point."

if your purpose is to simply vent (and appear boorish), oh well ...
the same challenge goes for anyone who likes Legend, etc. ...
i understand where you're coming from, but let's not cast a blind eye to its faults.

i would add one more thing:
-- make an effort to add new information to the forum.

a casual look at recent threads here and over at Legend, etc.
will show that we've travelled these roads, extensively, without resolution!
you got here over the internet, so use it wisely.
*its just a suggestion ...*

love it or not, the facts are:
-- crystal dynamics has been wildly successful developing its version of tomb raider.
-- a new game will be coming out in about two months.

... if you want to attempt to influence the direction of future development (which is well underway),
then provide thought-provoking insight into the state of the game.
one well-constructed opinion will outweigh a 1,000 rabid discontents making a mess of things.
... and, in the process, you won't appear to be useless forum lint.

i am an old-school gamer, played them all, all the way through,
leaving few secrets unturned, on various systems.
i adore Legend for what it is and did: a wonderful game that restored balance to the franchise.
its just a game, meant to be played for fun.
if you can't have fun with this game ... well, that's just sad ...

in some ways, life is a game, meant to be played for fun ...

*makes a suggestion that we all hold hands and form a big circle and begin singing ...*

RuumTaedor
21st Mar 2007, 04:32
Nicely put, Mr. Metro. :thumbsup: I also have attempted to provide "food for thought" in my posts and my witty Legend Analogies thread, which you were kind enough to contribute to. In fact, I even went so far as to mention something about making the world a better place, not sure where that was though. Now, where was I. Oh yes, nicely put Mr. Metro. I would probably be the "un-booger". Great points as usual.

rabid metro
21st Mar 2007, 04:37
ruumie,

i steal all my "good" stuff from you ...

*tries to wipe the big, cheesy grin off his face but swallows his hand*

Raid On!

Lara Cruz
21st Mar 2007, 14:07
Gee your a little ray of sunshine aren't you.... :p Not mystical? Sooo been to Avalon alot then? Seen any shadow demons lately? Any big sea serpents in rivers in cornwall? Nope? Seems pretty darn mystical to me then :lol:
No, i dont think avalon is mystical, the way they made the story it seemed boring, and not exiting/mystical too me at all. They didnt have any of the Tomb raider magic in Legend.
For instance, the parts of the sword where in really lame places.
Amanda had one, one was stolen in japan, one was in the plain wreck in nepal and one was taken by rutland.
My point is that 1 of 6 parts had a good place to be kept. (the one in the hands of king arthur) And that shadow demon, wasnt very cool if you ask me.
The sea serpent was cool, i will admit. but the fight was easy and boring, the second one wasnt even a fight just a... interactive cutscene.


Also might be interested to note, CD have the original creator for Lara Toby Gard.
I know they have Toby guard, but i still dont feel the magic when i look at the pictures/trailers of Anniversary pictures and trailers. It looks just like any other game that is releasing, and not a new tomb raider.
As i see it, they just make everything look impressive and complecated, but its not going to be.


... :)
*note the clever use of silence, since the point was, ... let's say, oblivious*
;)
Well yeah, it was and i agree, that was kinda stupid too say.
But what i ment with that 'flexible cow' thing is that she lost alot of her old moves and she rushes through the areas. We didnt have to calculate anything from jumps to jumps or anything, and i dont think its going to be like that again.


with this post, i'm not trying to change anyone's opinions or force you to think my way.
this is an "open" forum, so you can paint any portrait of yourself that you please.
just know that your posts are a picture of you ...
Well yeah, i know that alot of people will look at me as a negative and stupid person and i will agree that i overreacted.



love it or not, the facts are:
-- crystal dynamics has been wildly successful developing its version of tomb raider.
-- a new game will be coming out in about two months.
I know that, and i also accept it. Im just saying that i think that CD is turning TR to the 'just another game' section, and not speccial at all.


i am an old-school gamer, played them all, all the way through,
leaving few secrets unturned, on various systems.


its just a game, meant to be played for fun.
if you can't have fun with this game ... well, that's just sad ...
Exacly, but TR is the most fun game i`ve ever played and I felt that core was doing a very good job making Tomb raider speccial and keeping the atmosphere, CD is not doing that job right IMO, and thats why im telling this, hoping that some people will agree, and knowing alot of people wont.

But im gonna agree that my previous post was a bit too 'angry'.
In my defense ill say i had a bad day and Though i still think so, it came out wrong.

And about those interactive cutscenes.
For me, they ruin gameplay as i know at least one certain place in anniversary their gonna have one, wich is the worst place you can have them. Its one of the worst things happened to Tomb raider and ALOT of people complained about it, but its coming back in anniversary.

PS: If you have seen the Core version and CD version i think you will understand Better what im talking about, maybe not agreeing, but they kept alot of her old moves there. and the atmosphere it had.. was brilliant!

gsusfrk
21st Mar 2007, 16:20
I agree, curscenes are quiet annoying. :) Boo!! to cutscenes lol

LisaB1962
21st Mar 2007, 17:14
i challenge anyone who doesn't like Legend, etc. to make a case with merit.
i am not implying that that is impossible, or anything,
i'm just saying that, with few exceptions, it remains to be done.
your case will be successful, if, at its conclusion, the "other side" can,
in fairness, say "i see your point."

It's not a question of "disliking" Legend. It's a question of whether Legend is a good Tomb Raider game, and it's not a good Tomb Raider game. Whether it's an enjoyable game, or whether it's a well-crafted game is beside the point. It's a part of a franchise, and the Tomb Raider franchise stood for a certain type of gameplay that was all but forgotten in Legend.

The thing that made TR special was gone, and that was real exploration and trying to figure out what to do. In an early TR game, Lara would have been all over that base in Khazakstan before she knew what she was supposed to do, and there would have been no voice overs and cut scenes to explain it all for you.

The gunplay was outrageously unrealistic and boring---I mean, no one goes into a firefight with 12-15 well armed mercs and comes out alive, particularly with no stealth skills to lure them out and pick them off one at a time. I did like "bullet time" though, and got pretty good at it. But I got tired of the mercenary overload and kept hoping for enemies that would be fun or scary to fight.

In my opinion, Legend concentrates too much on the personality of Lara, and Tomb Raider was never about Lara in so far that we "knew" her. She was a bit of a loose cannon, a mystery. Lara is important to Tomb Raider, of course, but whereas Dante's abilities define the kind of game Devil May Cry is, Lara's abilities allow her to play the kind of game Tomb Raider is. Tomb Raider wasn't about jumping and grabbing or shooting. Those moves allowed Lara to explore and solve the mystery of the level. Why is Lara here? Where does she need to go? And how the heck does she get there? Those questions were asked too infrequently in Legend for my taste. It was obvious where she was supposed to go and how she was supposed to get there, and the cut-scene du moment constantly told us why (or how or where if a glance around the room didn't make it clear).

I don't know. I think the success of fast paced action games like PoP and GoW gave the designers the idea that TR needed to be more like them to be "successful," that gamers no longer wanted to be stuck for days because they can't figure out what they need to do next. The only areas in Legend that I got stuck in were those I found tediously difficult--overwhelming mercenaries or the bike rides,(I suck at driving games, :p ) and boss fights (and I think boss fights in general are overrated and found Legend's in particular unintuitive.)

Again, it's not a question of "bashing Legend" for the sake of saying I don't like it, or canonizing Core while crucifying CD. It's a question of expecting a certain type of gameplay that IMO made Tomb Raider different from other games, and getting something else.

rabid metro
22nd Mar 2007, 06:16
... i see your point ... :cool:

It's not a question of "disliking" Legend. It's a question of whether Legend is a good Tomb Raider game, and it's not a good Tomb Raider game...

Legend clearly "feels" and "plays" differently than the classics.
however, i don't hold Legend accountable to the classic "look and feel" ...
read on :)


...
It was obvious where she was supposed to go and how she was supposed to get there, and the cut-scene du moment constantly told us why (or how or where if a glance around the room didn't make it clear).

exactly! ... and there's a reason for this ...

*extra, extra, read all about it*
*rabid metro loved the classic tomb raider games!*
*... but he didn't love them to death ...*

the classic play of tomb raider was a dance that i thoroughly enjoyed!!
... and i was good at it!!! i wanted more ...

the strange thing about that dance was the reality that the general public had grown tired of it!!!!
the clear message was "one more step of that dance and you can kiss your assets goodbye".
:scratch: :confused: what? the game i loved would die if it continued to follow the same tune???

i suppose one strategy would have been to call the bluff of the general public ... we'll show you!
now strap on your dancing hooves and get with it! :rolleyes:
* poof! *

i'm glad that the current strategy was chosen: we're listening.
we are not so blindly in love with the game that we invented that we refuse to consider the voice of our customers.
business is business, and the conclusion was inescapable: change or die.
IMO, this meant you had better radically change your tune or you can kiss ...
legendary tomb raiders will be markedly different than classic tomb raiders, but this is their saving grace!

the first dance, Legend, had to back away from the precipice.
this meant, unfortunately, that it had to be obviously simple (general public rules).
remember, change your tune or die ... so, okay let's try it the way they want it.

open your eyes and this new dance is an all-out orgy!
go figure? Legend has defused the time bomb. whew ...
mind you, Legend is also a fun game in its own right (if you don't chain it to the classics).

but this first step isn't the whole story. that mistake was made already, remember?
the new tomb raiders will swing back and forth, while hopefully holding onto fundamentally sound elements.
this means that with Toby on board, they'll continue to evolve tomb raider as it was intended,
and they will keep the business alive, to be able to do it (just business, nothing personal ...)

ohh ... my one point: does understanding why Legend feels like a "concept demo" allow you to forgive it?

future tomb raiders will only look like Legend. in significant ways, they will "dance" more traditionally.
you can take that to the bank! :cool:

LisaB1962
22nd Mar 2007, 16:11
I agree CD seems to be paying very close attention to the feedback. That's terrific, and goodness knows this raider's little heart goes pitterpat about it. :D

But there's not to "forgive" Legend for. It is what it is. If you think its sole goal was to be commercially successful, then it succeeded brilliantly. There's no question its success is a HUGE reason we're getting Anniversary. I like to think the volumes of feedback on what was missing from Legend convinced CD that we - ten years of Tomb Raider fans - were still out here waiting, hoping, praying for a new TR game. We weren't all killed by the debacle of AOD. Our little raider hearts were still beating; there was still a candle in the window for Lara to come home to.

If CD underestimated anything, that's what they underestimated -- the huge following that STILL adores Tomb Raider. I think they thought we'd all gotten bored with waiting and run off with Kratos, or the Prince or even Ratchet and Clank. I don't think they realized that we'd drop our new dates just for a whiff of a seemingly out-of-reach medipak.

rabid metro
23rd Mar 2007, 03:33
you can skip the drama from here: the point is that we oftentimes fool ourselves!

*shhhh!, quiet!! lights fade ...*

*the curtain rises. act I, scene I*

I agree CD seems to be paying very close attention to the feedback...

i think people around here like to think that CD is paying close attention to us. fact of the matter is, this place, "forum world" is unreal and distorted. you can get useful information out of here but you need to do a lot of judicious filtering. *clears throat* i think CD is paying close attention to its real-world focus-groups and marketing, etc.. that's just business.


... But there's not to "forgive" Legend for. It is what it is.

urrrmmmm, i thought the point here was "let's abuse Legend since it isn't classic." i could be wrong. i was suggesting that you forgive Legend for not being classic once you knew why: in reality, classic tomb raider was a dying series. it wasn't dying in my heart, either, but it was dying for real. in some ways, its a kind of abuse to expect Legend to be classic.


...I like to think the volumes of feedback on what was missing from Legend convinced CD that we - ten years of Tomb Raider fans - were still out here waiting, hoping, praying for a new TR game.

maybe ... however, development on the 10th anniversary edition was well underway long before Legend was released. i think its more of a business strategy and evidence of sound developer thinking ...


...We weren't all killed by the debacle of AOD. Our little raider hearts were still beating; there was still a candle in the window for Lara to come home to.

*leprechaun or hobbit? goes with hobbit ...*
*also considers "hard core" >>> "nutshell" >>> "lunatic fringe" :confused: *
that's true ... the hard core want Lara back.
the problem, from a business perspective, is: how could Lara be happy living in a hobbit hut when she was used to living in a mansion?


If CD underestimated anything, that's what they underestimated -- the huge following that STILL adores Tomb Raider.

... relatively speaking. seemingly huge here in forum-world, but in reality, the hard core, are little people out of the fan base that Tomb Raider, prior to Legend, once had ... a dwindling population whose personal tastes were out of step with the much larger targeted demographic. sad, but real. (:( believe or not. is there no middle ground??? :D )


... I think they thought we'd all gotten bored with waiting and run off with Kratos, or the Prince or even Ratchet and Clank. I don't think they realized that we'd drop our new dates just for a whiff of a seemingly out-of-reach medipak.

*considers a perfectly wonderful, tasteless joke :o ... and then recovers :cool: *
maybe, if only they believed ... in ... true ... love ... and ... ... ... destiny,
but if the sales for TR3, TR4, TR5 and TR6 are the only clues they had,
then you can see why they reached their conclusion ...

i could go on, really, but, speaking of conclusions ... (nothing personal, LisaB. you are hopelessly romantic ... which, ... i guess means that you win!)
*reaches for medi-pak, ahhhhhh, full health and saves* :rolleyes:

LisaB1962
23rd Mar 2007, 17:42
urrrmmmm, i thought the point here was "let's abuse Legend since it isn't classic."

"Abusing" Legend (or anything else) has never been high on my agenda. I have always acknowledged its strengths and weaknesses. However, Legend so greatly changed the actual GAME of Tomb Raider as to be almost unrecognizable from its predecessors.

CD filtered down Tomb Raider to Lara and Tombs, but I think they used the too big a filter. Tomb Raider IMO wasn't about Lara or tombs. They needed to filter it down even further to the actual game, which was about exploration and figuring out what Lara needed to do.

I do take exception to your comment that I belong to some "lunatic fringe" because I enjoyed the "old style" of gameplay more than Legend's and would prefer a return to such. I'm not some crusty old fart stuck in the past with no idea of what modern gaming is about. There's a reason my fifteen year old son gave me God of War as a Mother's Day gift, so don't assume my tastes are "out of step" with modern gaming. I have played most big 3rd person action/adventures from the last couple of years---GOW, SOTC, POP series, Onimusha, Devil May Cry. I own Okami, but GOW2 has usurped it in priority. :D

I know what "modern gaming" is all about. I know about cancel frames and invincibility frames and other stupid stuff that doesn't get discussed at office parties. Please don't stereotype me or other *cough* "hard-core" fans (for want of a better term) as being dinosaurs of gaming. http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y97/LisaB1138/57.gif It's a common misconception that if you enjoyed TR2 more than Legend, you're in love with the grid system and you think analog control is from the devil. Nothing could be further from the truth.

I couldn't really care less about how Lara looks, or whether she can run on walls (or not.) FMV cut scenes are not the reason I play games, so I really don't need to be wowed by them either. That stuff is window dressing, and isn't what the game is about.

Get me lost. Get me scared. Thrill me by hiding something well and letting me find it. Reward me with something worth having.

That was Tomb Raider for me. I guess I don't see anything in that list out of step with modern gaming. :scratch:

phixgrrrl
24th Mar 2007, 01:31
Wow! So many posts in this thread...nice to see.
And reading them, just random thoughts popped up:
originally, people were posting here about the controls and I was saying I liked the old, computer controls better.

But then lots of other ideas came up too:
I too like the idea of exploration and mystery. That is why I play(ed) TR...I thought it was the best example of the style of gameplay I liked. Before that I had only played Doom 1, Gabriel Knight, Duke Nukem and some Ultimas. I was thrilled when I first played TR1. That became my fav. "style" of playing.
To ME, TR was all about exploration and getting places in certain ways and puzzles of course. I literally wanted to BE Lara...I love exploration. Lara got me into rock climbing. B/c of her, I want to explore underwater caves. I'd love to be able to flip everywhere but...

I played a bit of AOD and the demo of TRL...just didnt feel the same in the exploration aspect...and in some ways I cant pinpoint why.
I loved the old way of HOW you got Lara to where she needed to go...climbing, flipping, swimming, etc. and how the controls were implemented to do that. In fact I wouldn't mind if there was no shooting at all. I'd love it if it were just exploration, mystery, story, and puzzles.

And as to the business aspect...yeah I think they had to make some radical changes to keep Lara making money. It's sad but they had no choice there. I just happen to not like the changes. They sort of had to 'be like a lot of other games' to sell it and appeal to a broader audience. In a way, selling out. And yes, it does not necessarily feel like a TR game...feels like any other game of the genre, but that happens to star Lara.

gsusfrk
24th Mar 2007, 02:31
i think theres not that much gameplay time because games today are so short, and gives them more time to make more games with less gameplay in order for us to buy the next one because the game didn't end. I liked the old TR because was like todays games, it didn't end, but it was extremely long. And personally I don't think they're hiding things these days, they're out in the open, or are very obvious, like the... wintery level on TRL almost all the things you had to get were really easy to see/find, or obviously badly hidden. HIDE and use the enviroment to hide things. Make us go on little quests to find a reward or weapon, that was exicting! I liked that. But we don't have that n e more, we have short term stories that loose it's meaning, and hardly carry on stories from one another. I just want like the Matrix kinda movies, or LOTR triology in games. Obviously that's coming out when TR8 comes out, not TRA, but I'm not sure, so that's what excited me, a continuing story! YEah! :D If back in the day we had huge levels and awesome gameplay with even better stories, how much more should it be today!! But everything now, I say again, is so fast and so, "WHATS NEXT, WHATS NEXT," that the society demands for the next game the company has limited time. They should have a lot of time, and bring out an awesome game. We shouldn't be so impatient :S


I'm so bias lol

rabid metro
24th Mar 2007, 07:30
*hints: on- purple passages are quotes from Shakespeare's Hamlet*

"The plays the thing wherein i'll catch the conscience of the" ... :cool:

you can skip the drama from here: the point is that we oftentimes fool ourselves!

...I do take exception to your comment that I belong to some "lunatic fringe" ...
"The Lady doth protest too much, methinks" ... :cool:

*also considers "hard core" >>> "nutshell" >>> "lunatic fringe" :confused: *
"Hoist by your own petard?" :cool:

... (nothing personal, LisaB. you are hopelessly romantic ... which, ... i guess means that you win!)...
"I will speak daggers to her, but use none." :cool:

let me quit playing for a few lines ...

you are preaching to the choir, in a sense, about your feelings and wishes for Tomb Raider.
what troubles me is that you won't acknowledge reality:
the preferences of the small community of "hard core" TR fans (loosely defined in this thread)
has drifted away from the preferences of the far greater casual fans of TR.
this simply means that catering solely to the hard core would be bad business!
with Legend, CD correctly read the public pulse:
the vast majority of "fans" wanted a simpler game compared to the classics.
CD would lose credibility, and a shot at gaming immortality, if Tomb Raider did not evolve from Legend.
That's just one more reason to be ... optimistic! :)


They say that "there is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so". :cool:

StarChampagne
24th Mar 2007, 08:41
Wise words, rabid metro...


Buuut... Tomb Raider the first was a resounding success, much to the surprise of its designers. Interestingly, it definitely did not cater to the masses. Instead it did something unique, brilliant and lovingly well-designed. And everyone loved it for that.


I'm not necessarily suggesting CD try this... but perhaps they should bear in mind that if you create a good game, the number of polygons in each leaf ceases to matter. CD probably hopes to combine both the brilliant gameplay of TR1 with better graphics and new controls to make a sure-fire success. Ahh, but the controls...


In old TR, Lara moved forward, back, left right. It was very precise, but it worked. Evading enemies was easy enough if you got your jump sequence just right. While Legend was undeniably more fluid, as CatSuit said, it was much less precise. I (mm, here we go into the self-opinionated territory) preferred it when Lara moved in a predictable way. You jump, and you know exactly where you're going to wind up. Grabbing ledges was all part of the fun. Legend, the jumps seemed more of an aside, while jumping around was the staple diet of TR1.


Now I liked Legend, and it's nice to see the game taking a new direction. However, to see TR1 done with the new style... My heart sank slightly when I saw the trailer. It just didn't seem the same with all the fancy pole-flips and Smurf-running (guns held straight out in front, hehe). Hopefully I'll be completely wrong and Anniversary will combine the best of new and old-school. Also, don't think I want Anniversary to be anything near a direct copy: that's just silly. I want it to have all the old magic, and the controls are a big part of that,


On another note, I find it sad if the interests of the 'classic' gamers are becoming so different from those of the new gamers. If many people don't want a challenge, or an immerise experience, but a piece of harmless, easy fluff for passing the time. I'm probably getting waay into this, but Lara's a bit special. And it's the mark of a good game that we (at least, I do) feel so strongly about her games.


TR1 was a challenge, and a pretty good one at that. Do fans really want a simpler game? Legend, was, as you say, rabid metro, 'dancing away from the precipice'. Lara was more fluid. The environments were more beautiful. But it was a little too simple. Everything was laid out. Touching on the controls again, Legend Lara seems to have a life of her own.


Sorry for the length. And I'm not exactly sure what I've accomplished. To sum up: :)

- Old style controls were more precise. Legend was more fluid, but a bit less 'controlled'.

- Why would someone want shorter, easier games in general? A shorter, easier, Tomb Raider a game? Come on now, Tomb Raider is never easy!

- Legend was good, and pretty. Tomb Raider was basic but very very very good. Let's hope they have the magic of TR1 with the best of Legend in Anniversary.


Whew...

LisaB1962
24th Mar 2007, 17:58
I stand by my statement that getting lost, getting scared and being stumped are still good gaming. I've played enough new games to know.

I'm not going to judge Legend by standards that don't matter---it's their first try, or be grateful--TR is successful now! or by what they are trying with Anniversary. I'm going to look at Legend as a game in a franchise. The only reason to even buy a game franchise is because you know you like it, because you know what you're going to get.

And the truth is the things that were not in Legend are the things that made Tomb Raider Tomb Raider and not Prince of Persia or God of War. Maybe you need to play those games to see the formula because it's there.

My opinion of Legend has nothing to do with my hopes for Anniversary. I judge it solely on the merit of whether or not I had fun playing it, how it made me feel.

I agree that CD felt they "had" to change the game for all these "casual gamers" everyone insists are out there (not that I've ever met any of them.) However, I think this "hard core" base you insist is small is really larger than you think.

People want longer games, they want harder games. If SOTC and Okami prove anything, it's that there's still plenty of room for something different.

pinkangel07
24th Mar 2007, 19:19
I stand by my statement that getting lost, getting scared and being stumped are still good gaming. I've played enough new games to know.

I'm not going to judge Legend by standards that don't matter---it's their first try, or be grateful--TR is successful now! or by what they are trying with Anniversary. I'm going to look at Legend as a game in a franchise. The only reason to even buy a game franchise is because you know you like it, because you know what you're going to get.

And the truth is the things that were not in Legend are the things that made Tomb Raider Tomb Raider and not Prince of Persia or God of War. Maybe you need to play those games to see the formula because it's there.

My opinion of Legend has nothing to do with my hopes for Anniversary. I judge it solely on the merit of whether or not I had fun playing it, how it made me feel.

I agree that CD felt they "had" to change the game for all these "casual gamers" everyone insists are out there (not that I've ever met any of them.) However, I think this "hard core" base you insist is small is really larger than you think.

People want longer games, they want harder games. If SOTC and Okami prove anything, it's that there's still plenty of room for something different.
soo... many... long...posts... ::faints::

After my eyes have adjusted, let me just say I'm glad people are bringing up such good comments!

And Lisa, did you play Okami? Holy crap that was my fave game ever!(or close enough:)) I'm glad you brought it up, it was long, but not in a "butter spread over too much bread" kinda way. And when I got to the final world, I was like, "Man, look how far I've come. This is like a life-changing game! I can't believe how longs it's been since I was playing in Shinshu Fields trying to bloom that tree...

I wish TRL would have been like that... I loved the controls in TRL, they were so much better that the old ones because...
*They were realistic (people can actually jump like her... see the Manipulating you Enviroment thread if you don't believe me... I'd like to see a video with someone doing old TR moves/jumps... (sound of ambulance comes)
*They were forgiving- I hated in TR 1-5 where if you where a tad off, OOPS, sorry, you die. If you want examples, just PM me or something... it'd take a long time to put them all here.
*The moves were neat-o. The grapple was actually part of the game. In TRChronicles, the grapple was used in only one part of the game, (I think... the levels were in High Tower... or something like that) and used very little at that.
*Lara was quick- not some sloth whose walk ability was seriously old-timer ("Come on gran, it's not too much longer to the other side of the street")

For those who preferred TR controls, I understand why you like them. But for PS2/PS3 games, that's just unrealistic. There are so few people who would buy the game if 10 years from now it was in the same format. (and did you expect the controls to be the same 10 years after the original? now 11 years???)
If you blame CD for this, play AOD for 30 minutes straight. Yeah. Core didn't exactly do great job with PS2 controls.

ChOnyD
25th Mar 2007, 05:22
WOW WOW WOW! I can't believe you ppl...BUT I totally agree with pinkangle:) . Tomb Raider Legend Controls were awesome. And you ppl are exaggerating about the camera controls(well i dunno for pc).
THe only problem i had with the tomb raider controls was on the level of Ghana. When you were at the part with the broken bridge and you had to swing across by grabbing on to the ropes. Whenever i jumped to grap the rope lara would just FALL AND DIE!:mad2: but thats the only problem i had.
And i have been wondering for all that want auto grab and all that stuff, how would that work for when you're hanging on a ledge and you need to get to another ledge that is only reachable by jumping up.
it would be like a totally different gameO_O

rabid metro
25th Mar 2007, 05:29
Why is Crystal Dynamics developing Tomb Raider?
... understanding this properly will allow us to see why things are different now and going to be different from now on!


They say that, sometimes, to understand your present, you have to go back to your past.

pinkangel07
26th Mar 2007, 02:27
Why is Crystal Dynamics developing Tomb Raider?
... understanding this properly will allow us to see why things are different now and going to be different from now on!


They say that, sometimes, to understand your present, you have to go back to your past.


Wow. That was deep, man.

Agree totally. Why isn't Core making TR anymore? My opinion- they couldn't handle the fast-paced graphics change. PS1, basically, the graphics changed little... yes, I said little, because ya know what? The truth hurts. Then PS2 comes out and HOLY CRAP, Core's like, what are we gonna do??? Well, let's try our hand at a new storyline for a game even though we don't really know what we are doing on PS2. And out came Angel of Darkness. Ouch... I still have emotional scars.

gsusfrk
26th Mar 2007, 15:33
so what in the world was so bad about TR AOD?? I found it interesting, but not like the rest of the TR's?? To be honest im in the dark, all alone on this one :S

LisaB1962
26th Mar 2007, 15:39
AOD was technically so bad is was almost unplayable. I say "almost" because if you really, really, really wanted to play it, you grit your teeth and put up with it.

Lara Cruz
26th Mar 2007, 16:53
Not true, im playing through it now, and i dont have any problems with it at all. Not the first time either, or the second time.

LisaB1962
26th Mar 2007, 18:07
Well, everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I found the game to be mostly annoying in how it played. The story was the only thing that kept me interested enough to play it through.

gsusfrk
26th Mar 2007, 18:34
was it the controls??

Ultimate Tomb Raider
26th Mar 2007, 19:52
i like the old controls but i just wish it wasnt so dang touchy! i mean like if u barely flinch she falls off the stupid ledge! i hate that!:mad2:

Tomb-Dude
26th Mar 2007, 20:50
i could be assed ot read coz i am shattered and feel like going to bed but i think i got the gist of this lol.

I did like the controls (for the ORGINAL games) but we have to move on in life we cant be stuck in the past for ever we have to move on technology has been well... upgraded and transformed and well in legends maybe they wanted to use the knew technology like the auto-grap and megenetic grapple.
And for the cut scenes i thought i made it more movie like put a bit more different atmosphere and once again trying to change TR a tad big instead of being stuck in the past. But i loved the controls for legend because i felt more in control of the Lara and more like i was her in a way in the way she moved.
But for all of those people who like the old classic controls fine thats your opinion but one day please move forward in life instead (once again) being stuck in the past. :mad2:

Now can i get some sleep. Oh be for i go.
If there is more cut scenes and active cut scenes in TRA which i dout i would like it once again more movie like :p
OH and if you classic old fashioned gamers who like the classic control hopefully in the finished version of TRA you might be able to get ride of auto-grap... ain't you the happy lot!!! I am sooo chuffin shattered im going to bed now!!!!!!

StarChampagne
26th Mar 2007, 21:41
I did like the controls (for the ORGINAL games) but we have to move on in life we cant be stuck in the past for ever we have to move on technology has been well... upgraded and transformed and well in legends maybe they wanted to use the knew technology like the auto-grap and megenetic grapple.


Allriiight. Good points. We have to move forward.:)

I preferred the old controls BUT having thought a bit, I think this was a lot to do with the fact I could control Lara using the keyboard alone. The days of Lara moving in parallel lines are sadly but understandably gorn, and so we have the fluidity. It's great and realistic and all, but I think I really like the keyboard factor. Wonder if they could somehow combine new controls with keyboard only? So 'left' key means turn left, not run left? HmmmmmMMmm.



i could be assed ot read coz i am shattered and feel like going to bed but i think i got the gist of this lol.

Don't blame you... Those are some long posts. And mine didn't say an awful lot :lol:

LisaB1962
26th Mar 2007, 23:14
Well, the controls were certainly a contributor. The fact Core decided to move the jump button from square totally mystified me. But there were horrible slow downs on the PS2 as well when there was a lot on the screen. During battle she'd just go into "slo-mo" and it was horrible. Lots of meaningless fluff--like forty-jillion different health items. Really, what good is a 10% increase in health? :scratch:

And anytime you can lay down during the final boss battle, well, that sort of says something, right? :D

Cherry Hardy
27th Mar 2007, 00:20
(excuse bad english please)

Anyone else who thinks the new way to move Lara around has totally left the series in a cold dark place, in which there is not joy nor hapiness? I think the old quadratic world which fitted Laras jumps to perfection was the hole point of these games. She would never let me down by falling in a ditch if I controlled her in the correct manner. She would never run in a nondesired direction if I asked her politely. She would never get spasms or get stuck in thin air if I didnt try to make it happen, and probably not even then.
Why oh why have they disembowelled the series. Looking back there is no doubt, the series was ruined by changing "up is forward" to "touch the controller and off she goes somewhere!".

Anyone else who misses the feel of absolutely total control when playing the game?

I wont by another until (and this will probably never happen) they change back the controls.

I have to agree with you the old controls was nice. I realy misses the fell of absolutely total control when playing the game to. But did you like AOD I know I did but lost of other people did not. I loved AOD how about you.

Tomb-Dude
27th Mar 2007, 18:01
Cheers StarChampagne for kinda of i think agreeing with me but i got from school like an hour nearly two now lol!!! (Why am i telling you my life story??? sometimes i even confuse my self lol)

But yer i havn't played legend on pc one because my/ dad's pc back then probz wouldn't of played it and well i had it for PS2 and could be assed to buy it for pc lol (im not a lazy git really!")
But maybe one day i will try out the controls on pc and see how "difficult" they are, and then i will tell you if i prefer the classic controls for pc :D

Another thing about AOD... I would say i loved it that much but it was ok not the best 1 because of the glitches and 2 sometimes i just got lost in the story line but hey that me for you!!!
But other then that i did enjoy the gameplay and the stroy line wasn't that bad but if they ever did do a remake of it they better do something on the way how her clothes changed that was weired... gets knocked out then wakes up with glasses on her face. Whats up with that?! Another time with the clothes go though a door with trouser come out the door with shorts?! really, really confusing i never knew when i was going to get ordanary clothes next lol. (another bad point) Her pistols... WHERE WERE THEY!!! On the front of the box and the back it shows double pistols and well we got the ammo i think but we didn't get them that really annoyed me grrrr!!!!

BUt a good point like before, it was a good story line and bla bla bla!!! umm that my points again and once again a sort of big post again :D

Oh if i sounded pissy sorry i wasn't i was just putting my points across ;)

Cherry Hardy
27th Mar 2007, 21:58
Cheers StarChampagne for kinda of i think agreeing with me but i got from school like an hour nearly two now lol!!! (Why am i telling you my life story??? sometimes i even confuse my self lol)

But yer i havn't played legend on pc one because my/ dad's pc back then probz wouldn't of played it and well i had it for PS2 and could be assed to buy it for pc lol (im not a lazy git really!")
But maybe one day i will try out the controls on pc and see how "difficult" they are, and then i will tell you if i prefer the classic controls for pc :D

Another thing about AOD... I would say i loved it that much but it was ok not the best 1 because of the glitches and 2 sometimes i just got lost in the story line but hey that me for you!!!
But other then that i did enjoy the gameplay and the stroy line wasn't that bad but if they ever did do a remake of it they better do something on the way how her clothes changed that was weired... gets knocked out then wakes up with glasses on her face. Whats up with that?! Another time with the clothes go though a door with trouser come out the door with shorts?! really, really confusing i never knew when i was going to get ordanary clothes next lol. (another bad point) Her pistols... WHERE WERE THEY!!! On the front of the box and the back it shows double pistols and well we got the ammo i think but we didn't get them that really annoyed me grrrr!!!!

BUt a good point like before, it was a good story line and bla bla bla!!! umm that my points again and once again a sort of big post again :D

Oh if i sounded pissy sorry i wasn't i was just putting my points across ;)


AOD those little problem you said could be fixed easily . AOD had no probles that can't be fixed fast, they was all little problems easily fixeble. I would rate AOD above Legend any day. At let AOD had story line and it was not eassy and was long and fun.

Cherry Hardy
27th Mar 2007, 21:59
Well, the controls were certainly a contributor. The fact Core decided to move the jump button from square totally mystified me. But there were horrible slow downs on the PS2 as well when there was a lot on the screen. During battle she'd just go into "slo-mo" and it was horrible. Lots of meaningless fluff--like forty-jillion different health items. Really, what good is a 10% increase in health? :scratch:

And anytime you can lay down during the final boss battle, well, that sort of says something, right? :D

All things in AOD you did not like could eaily be fiexed.

Treeble
27th Mar 2007, 22:25
Well, if they were so easy to fix, then Core was really messed up... doesn't matter, now. They're gone.

pinkangel07
27th Mar 2007, 23:03
Please enlighten me on how to fix. I own a PS2, and I don't think anything can drastically fix the PS2 version.

I don't remember anyone mentioning the dumbest idea ever...

"Let's have Lara have a strength limit... She has to build it up! That way, the player doesn't get full advantage of her abilities until the end of the game!"

-unauthorized Core brainstorming session

Cherry Hardy
27th Mar 2007, 23:48
i wanna have the AOD moves, along with the legend moves and watever TRA has in store for us. andher moves in the previous games.she could actually do the back jump of a wall in AOD. for the PC the controls were PAD0 and ALT, in case anyone is interested. she has to dangle on a wall.


Back with the midair turn!!!!!


That is what I want to the AOD moves, along with the legend moves and watever TRA has in store for us.

Cherry Hardy
27th Mar 2007, 23:49
I really REALLY prefer the old controls! It was much better.

I do to in a way.

Cherry Hardy
27th Mar 2007, 23:57
Yes, i do miss the good old ways.
Core made everything so un-realistic and brilliant, and the way she moved, well i dont care. I like slow lara more then agile lara because legend and probably anniversary lara is just rushing through the areas while old lara even could 'take her time'.

Going off topic!
And im not optimistic at CD`s work at all.
She moves like a flexible cow in Legend and probably annibersary.
They make cheap moves (like grapple) and makes better graphics and a better controllable lara, and then they took away almost everything about her including her: Jumps, gun posture, way to act, she looks too nice now (not dangerous, just like a ... well.. movie actress) They are giving her alot of clichè moves like wall run.
For me CD`s games has NO atmosphere and Lara is dead and burried, i dont even think im gonna buy it. They make good games, but they are making 'hollywood' clichè`s in them.
And after i saw that banned Core trailer, i totally lost my innterest in CD.
Eidos blew it!


CD`s TR games are too realistic, its not even mystical. Its plain boring, and lara is too good and knows everything in them.

And the colors.
Its so bright and beautiful and CD, while in Core`s work everything was dark and mystical.
I could see a corner and i had to prepare myself for something that could jump out of the dark.

What would you like?
"Im sorry, i only play for sport* ir * Im afraid you`ve been mislread... i only play for sport.
Tomb raider is dead for me. And i know im very negative, though i want Core back, eidos screwed it up!

I got a feeling that TR is going to be like all normal and boring games, and loose its beauty and mystery.
Despite all my anger, i hope i made some points.


I am realy stating to fell like you do that TR games was somthing good but now it is becoming boring.

pot
28th Mar 2007, 17:53
I am... what can I say... OUTRAGED at the choice of Idios to change the controls system. The old controls, as you quite rightly say, were the whole point of the game!

Sorry for offending a whole bunch of people, but I have to say these new Tomb Raider Fan Boys who go on about how much they really like the control system REALLY annoy me!

I'm afraid I wont be buying this Eidos as you have obviously decided not to listen to your old fans. Shame on you and well shame for me too as I was really looking forward to this game. I looked forward to Legend for a long time and it was a big disspointment when I realised it was a whole new type of game with Tomb Raider graphics.

This is NOT Tomb Raider.

Booooooooooo!

Anyone interested in starting a petition?

EDIT:
LISTEN TO US EDIOS! We the ORIGINAL fans of the game are the reason YOU are still around today! OK change Legend for the new console fan boys whatever.... BUT FOR GOD'S SAKE CAN YOU NOT AT LEAST RERELEASE THE OLD CLASSIC GAME(S) ARE THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO BE PLAYED, YOU KNOW FOR THE BENEFIT OF US NOSTALGIC MID LIFE GAMES WHO BOUGHT A PSP AND HAVE WAITED A YEAR AND A HALF FOR THIS GAME TO COME OUT!

Sorry for the caps I expect i have broken the rules, but I am VERY dissappointed.

gsusfrk
28th Mar 2007, 18:34
i was 12 when the first TR came out and I've forgetten the controls....embarresingly, but could someone tell me what they...refresh my memory :o

pot
28th Mar 2007, 18:57
Tomb Raider WAS a 3-D platform game. The main difference between the old and the new controls was this: no matter which direction Lara faced you always had to press forward, meaning that if Lara was in a corner facing outwards you press up and as she runs towards you the camera then zooms in behind as she vacates the corner leaving space. It was intuitive, appealing and highly addictive 3-D platform gameplay. ALso the way you just had to press X for jump and she did a forward roll and turned round to face the other way. The gameplay was simple but effective, you were able to time jumps from one block to the next by walking slowing to the edge and tapping the down button once backwards which gave you just the right amount to distance to give her a running jump right from edge. Once mastery of the controls system had been acheived it made no difference which direction the camera was facing when you made the jump and it just added to the enjoyment of the game, seeing Lara take running jumps from all different angles ;-) hehe Simplicity is the secret to making good gameplay, it always will be. The new controls are frustrating and clumsy. I see no fun in traversing an obstacle course of and over again trying with very little control to position Lara accurately enough to make the jump. THat is the crux of my argument against the new controls, certainly on the PSP it was a game of hit and miss with regards to that. I sold my copy after one week.

Can they not just release a compilation of the first 3 games as they were?

Tomb-Dude
28th Mar 2007, 18:59
i was 12 when the first TR came out and I've forgetten the controls....embarresingly, but could someone tell me what they...refresh my memory :o

Well basicly arrow keys to move and alt to jump and grab with control and pull out your guns with control. and other buttons, i was about 4 when the first tombraider came out i just worked it just now lol!!!!
BUt yes pot i do kinda agree with you about the old control for the old "classic" fans if you dont mind me calling you that :D but ummm.... were are like in the 21st century now and well technlogy has got better but hopefully if in anniversary, they have done that turnoff auto-grab we will all be happy.

But i do like both controls becasue i am playing 2 and 3 and 4 at the moment or i was lol!!! And well... for then the controls were excellent and they still are im not saying they arn't but like before we do have to move on at first i found th contorl for legends very strange and abnormal but then i grew to love it and well i prefered the new control but that is my opinion :D
I don't mind what all of you people like because it is your life and you can choose whta you like but im just saying well time has moved on and so do we in life :D.... hope im not offending any of you by telling you to move on in life :D sorry if i am :D

pot
28th Mar 2007, 19:05
OK we are in the 21st century but this is a NOSTALGIA game. ALL you new console fan boys have got HALO and even TR Legend. WE want Tomb Raider on our PSP, that is a big part of the reason what we bought it for! That and Oddworld anyway!

phixgrrrl
9th Apr 2007, 01:18
Wow, well said.
And I'd agree to the petition too, mentioned in an earlier post.


Tomb Raider WAS a 3-D platform game. The main difference between the old and the new controls was this: no matter which direction Lara faced you always had to press forward, meaning that if Lara was in a corner facing outwards you press up and as she runs towards you the camera then zooms in behind as she vacates the corner leaving space. It was intuitive, appealing and highly addictive 3-D platform gameplay. ALso the way you just had to press X for jump and she did a forward roll and turned round to face the other way. The gameplay was simple but effective, you were able to time jumps from one block to the next by walking slowing to the edge and tapping the down button once backwards which gave you just the right amount to distance to give her a running jump right from edge. Once mastery of the controls system had been acheived it made no difference which direction the camera was facing when you made the jump and it just added to the enjoyment of the game, seeing Lara take running jumps from all different angles ;-) hehe Simplicity is the secret to making good gameplay, it always will be. The new controls are frustrating and clumsy. I see no fun in traversing an obstacle course of and over again trying with very little control to position Lara accurately enough to make the jump. THat is the crux of my argument against the new controls, certainly on the PSP it was a game of hit and miss with regards to that. I sold my copy after one week.

Can they not just release a compilation of the first 3 games as they were?

pinkangel07
9th Apr 2007, 01:30
drama drama drama****

i am sick of people overreacting

and I thank Eidos for improving the controls.

Popcorn, anyone?:whistle:

tombraiderquan
9th Apr 2007, 04:21
I CAN but is ourlittle sercet hahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :)

TOMB RAIDER FOR LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

phixgrrrl
10th Apr 2007, 00:17
No, just statement of opinions. Of course if you disagree, you'll say its overreacting....
Anyway, I'm glad some people feel the same as I do about the controls. They really MADE the game.
Oh well...
Was good while it lasted

ElevenTR
11th Apr 2007, 12:22
I CAN but is ourlittle sercet hahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :)

TOMB RAIDER FOR LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I do hope you aren't this loud outside of the virtual world. ;)

ElevenTR
11th Apr 2007, 12:24
OK we are in the 21st century but this is a NOSTALGIA game. ALL you new console fan boys have got HALO and even TR Legend. WE want Tomb Raider on our PSP, that is a big part of the reason what we bought it for! That and Oddworld anyway!

Unlucky. :rolleyes:

munchkin
11th Apr 2007, 12:53
drama drama drama****

i am sick of people overreacting

and I thank Eidos for improving the controls.

Popcorn, anyone?:whistle:

Indeed kudos to Cd for improving the controls and making them much more intuative.

To all those saying the controls made TR for you..... i think you managed to miss an awful lot if the controls are the single most important factor of TRaiding for you. I feel sad for you i really do but please stop touting your opinions as being worth more because your alledgedly old skool Tr's.... there are plenty of old skool Tr's who like TRL and like the new controls and new direction TR is taking.... hell its a bloody big improvment on the way core was taking us with *shudder* AOD. now they were controls to moan about.....

oh and btw, real old skool gamers don't need to get a PSP for old skool gaming they still have old consoles or PC's that play the original old games on big assed tv's..... we still have the original games we brought way back when and back up copies, i have all the oddworld games for PS1 and the ones on the xbox, i have every TR game for console twice and a copy for PC just incase. and although we have monkey island 1 and 2 on CD ROM for the PC we have still got the originals for the commodore Amiga (which we also still have) and so on.....

just you now to give this whining some perspective and all..... from one old skool gamer to possibly others....

oh yeah and TRA is coming out for PSP so that argument is itself a strawman argument.

beccaxx

LisaB1962
11th Apr 2007, 16:46
i think you managed to miss an awful lot if the controls are the single most important factor of TRaiding for you.

It's not that the controls were the most important, however, the controls were part of the strategy of the game. You had to understand how Lara moved, what her limits were and exploit them. Which jump would get you to that ledge? Maybe a reverse roll to shave that extra second off the timed run? It was truly up to the gamer to figure out exactly what to do to get from one place to another, or how to get there in time.

I'm not saying anything one way or the other about Legends controls vs. "old" controls. I'm just trying to clarify what the "old" controls meant to the "old" game. Exploiting the moves was part of the game.

munchkin
11th Apr 2007, 22:47
It's not that the controls were the most important, however, the controls were part of the strategy of the game. You had to understand how Lara moved, what her limits were and exploit them. Which jump would get you to that ledge? Maybe a reverse roll to shave that extra second off the timed run? It was truly up to the gamer to figure out exactly what to do to get from one place to another, or how to get there in time.

I'm not saying anything one way or the other about Legends controls vs. "old" controls. I'm just trying to clarify what the "old" controls meant to the "old" game. Exploiting the moves was part of the game.

As in any game exploiting the controls is key but is not the game. And someone if not you did claim that the old controls were the game. This is just not entirly accurate, and it was to this i was commenting on.

beccaxx