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Jontif
28th Feb 2007, 23:27
I think the important thing about this remake is the subtleties that made us all enjoy the original and that they get that right. For me that includes the lighting and the colour of the original levels. In one of the trailers one room seemed very bright compared to the original - may have just been me. The game must capture the atmosphere of the original, the sense of isolation, the loneliness, the subtle sound effects and the sense of wonder when arriving at a new location or area of interest. The feeling of fear as a hoard of wolves appear out of nowhere...

The 5 most important things for me are:-

Lighting / colour
Level Design / length
Sound effects / music or lack of it...
Secrets
Ability to explore..

What 5 things are important to you?

Taylour
1st Mar 2007, 00:16
You stole the words right out of my mouth. The Level design and ability to explore are SO important. I want to be able to feel like I'm inside that tomb and that it's not a one hallway room, but a tomb filled with pitfalls and wrong turns, because that's what makes it a tomb, right? :D The sound is also important, I would basically be okay with the sound effects and music used on TR1 because it fit the game so perfectly, the feeling of isolation was amazing, also an important factor.

p.s. good thread :D

RaiderGirl#1
1st Mar 2007, 00:28
I never played the first tomb raider- I wish I had but I would say that I would like:

Level Design
More moves
Exploring
Beautiful surrounds
Secrets...

I agree with Taylour, that I would like to have places where you can fall and you have to think quickly. Make you on the edge of your seat the whole time- with the tombs more than a hallway.

G4mefr3ak88
1st Mar 2007, 01:54
As a fellow Tomb Raider player I also say that the ability to look, feel, and think you're where Lara is, is all to important. Just playing and feeling like your there, you get caught in the moment. That's what makes Tomb Raider so great. Also, i like the levels in the games to be long with challenge. I didn't find much of that in Legend, but i'm tellin ya it was still a great game. My top 5 are as follows....

1.) Ability to feel as though you're in the game
2.) Lengthy/difficult levels
3.) Graphics of the game...(this helps the whole be there yourself thing, :) )
4.) The stunts and things you do while playing
5.) Great cut scenes..(Personally i'm a fan of both the hard ones and the mellow drama ones)

LisaB1962
1st Mar 2007, 02:21
1. I want to be able to explore the environment, not just look at it.
2. I want meaningful secrets and rewards, i.e., useful items, additional gameplay.
3. I want to get lost.
4. I want to get scared.
5. I want as few cut scenes as possible, preferably between levels. I got very tired of them playing the game for me in Legend.

Taylour
1st Mar 2007, 02:52
3. I want to get lost.
4. I want to get scared.

I like :D

pinkangel07
1st Mar 2007, 02:58
1. I want to be able to explore the environment, not just look at it.
2. I want meaningful secrets and rewards, i.e., useful items, additional gameplay.
3. I want to get lost.
4. I want to get scared.
5. I want as few cut scenes as possible, preferably between levels. I got very tired of them playing the game for me in Legend.

I completely agree :)

I like the cut scenes when they are too the point or interesting and don't go through a lot of the level... There were quite a lot of lengthy cut scenes in the original games, but they provided useful information, but not to the point where you didn't have to think.

rabid metro
1st Mar 2007, 03:40
1. I want to be able to explore the environment, not just look at it.
2. I want meaningful secrets and rewards, i.e., useful items, additional gameplay.
3. I want to get lost.
4. I want to get scared.
5. I want *less nurturing* cut scenes ...

except for item #2, which hasn't been addressed publicly, as far as i know, it sounds like 10ann has you smoothly covered.
we already know already that 10ann will be beautiful and that it offers significantly more non-linear play, etc.

i want CD to swing the paradigm pendulum far enough to the other side so that they can clearly see that Tomb Raider will be a hit, because it has (reasonable) configuration options and because it uberly-challenges the player. getting stuck should happen ... spoilers can be had in a click, if that's how you roll ... i'm willing to bet that the tomb raider coolness factor will skyrocket in proportion to the nurturing factor being minimized, as long as the controls are easy to use (i.e. transparent) and the means for getting clues is reasonable within the the game. being able to explore has merits all on its own and just about everyone enjoys "figuring it out". of course, all of this comes at a price, so i wish infinite development resources to CD ...

at its roots, tomb raider has an element of aristocracy to it, which pulls it out of the mud.
i want CD to raise the bar so that other games will be less able to even pretend that they are tomb raider-like ...

"They say that once you've played Tomb Raider, you'll never go back ..." :rolleyes: :)

Phlip
1st Mar 2007, 16:11
1, Music coming in interesting places
2, Good long memorable game
3, Lighting atmosphere
4, The sense of isolation
5, The bits that randomly made you jump.

I think that this and a few more stuff if put into a TR game would make it great and very memorale.

doctor willard
1st Mar 2007, 17:04
1. very long levels (when i say very i mean it)
2. maybe more ways to take down enemies, like jump of a bear's back and ride it like a horse into a brick wall.
3. decent orchestral music, but not 24/7
4. not lots of copied prince of persia moves.
5. getting to play some of the cutscenes like when lara breaks into the natla office building.

dhama
1st Mar 2007, 17:25
1. Level Editor
2. Level Editor
3. Level Editor
4. Level Editor
5. Level Editor

Phlip
1st Mar 2007, 18:29
1. Level Editor
2. Level Editor
3. Level Editor
4. Level Editor
5. Level Editor

Hmmmm... I don't know why but I have a slight hint that you might like Level editor. I don't know why:scratch:

:D ;)

RuumTaedor
1st Mar 2007, 18:46
Hmmmm... I don't know why but I have a slight hint that you might like Level editor. I don't know why:scratch:

:D ;)

That ain't gonna go over too well. You poor neglected child, you haven't played any fan built TR levels? You don't know what you've been missing! I haven't played many, but I can appreciate the work that goes into them. Fan contributed levels add a whole new dimension to any game! I'll leave it to other level builders and players to chime in with the value of a level editor.

Phlip
1st Mar 2007, 19:29
I'm njot neglected! But I havn't played them because there are no actual links to download them, I would if someone gave me the link to a deicent level.

RuumTaedor
1st Mar 2007, 20:10
I'm njot neglected!

Just to clarify, Phlip, I don't actually think you're a "poor neglected child". It was just a figure of speech, so I'm sorry if it offended you, no offense was intended.

Phlip
1st Mar 2007, 20:55
oops wrong spelling:o

You didn't offend me, and I know it's just a figure of speech, I just wnted to say.

Jontif
1st Mar 2007, 21:05
I dont know if a level editor would be possible... with the old tomb raider games the levels were built with triangles, easy to manipulate and relatively simple building block structure... whereas with legend and 10ann I believe dont use triangular block builds the levels have been more scuplted, whether that would be to technical to build into a level editor I dont know...

I love all your ideas guys... great response to my first thread... any other wish lists?

Inn_Hevonn_Klann
1st Mar 2007, 21:22
For me definitly
1) color, texture, shadows(design):thumbsup:
2) Lara's moves, shape, :D ;)
3) Levels. Have to be big, diverse, they must look real...:eek: :scratch:
4) Enemies must act independently. One does something and the other does other, but not the same thing at the same time! It takes reality, fun, enjoyment of the game!_I know this is in the game! The AI has been emproved on this way, so good job EIDOS, C.D., others... :thumbsup:
5) Veracity is always good in a game! For example, in the Greek levels, things should be in Greek! Like MIDAS(ΜΙΔΑΣ), Neptune(ΠOΣΕΙΔΏΝΑΣ) or Thor(ΘΩΡ)! If this doesn't appears, I'm sorry EIDOS! Less points I'll give you!**** :(

Jontif
1st Mar 2007, 21:27
4) Enemies must act independently. (

I have always liked this idea.... i loved the Barkang monistery on TR2 where all the monks start fighting.. I sometimes loved rushing in there and helping them out and other times staying in the cave watching the fight... they always seemed to be acting as real characters not just a stepped series of programmed instructions...i loved the idea that if you helped them they didnt attaack you but if you killed one of theirs they were all out for your blood!! ;)

pinkangel07
1st Mar 2007, 21:28
That ain't gonna go over too well. You poor neglected child, you haven't played any fan built TR levels? You don't know what you've been missing! I haven't played many, but I can appreciate the work that goes into them. Fan contributed levels add a whole new dimension to any game! I'll leave it to other level builders and players to chime in with the value of a level editor.

I must say, I have not played any fan built either, and my hearts aches to. hahaha, okay, maybe I don't want to play one THAT bad, but I still want to. Us PS1 people missed out, apparently! (but keyboard controls bug me anyway)

ditom
1st Mar 2007, 21:28
1.Big , beautyfull levels
2.Puzzles (real puzzles!!!)
3.Music same as in Legend or better
4.Playing one level longer than 5 hours
5.Lara Lara Lara
:scratch:
You want 5 points so you have but I could give you much much more

Jontif
1st Mar 2007, 21:45
I remember the feeling of getting stuck on a level and running round and round for hours till I figured it out...oh the thrill of finally reaching a new level...I loved the longevity of the old games... as mentioned numerous times Legend was far too short and too linear... I want huge caverns... huge drops... I loved the feeling of Acrophobia you would get looking down over a ledge or drop in the old games

munchkin
1st Mar 2007, 22:44
Beauty TR1 was beautiful for its day.

Atmosphere - Gorgeous yet claustrophbic and also immense Tombs. I'm not fussed about the difficulty, TR1 wasn't exactly hard first time out so good gameplay, comes under atmosphere for me, and the inclusion of the midas hand (hey i can't help wanting to see Lara turned to gold with uptodate-ish graphics :) )

Personality - Laras personality being able to shine through more than it was in TR1 (better technology allows that) (more like TR 2, 4 and Legend where her wit and sacrasm not to mention spunky classiness really shine through her essential Laraness)

movements - The fluidity of Legends engine thrilling though it is to have to battle hand cramp holding the X button for a 5 min ledge shimmy or to have to walk to every ledge in case you fell off, the fluidity of movement allowed by the Legend system really helps the immersion in the game.

Animals - The sound of the Crocadiles, that was so good in TR! i hope that is as creepy. Not to mention the T-Rex has to be scary and make your palms sweat.

end of the day i adored Legend, and i still adore TR1 so i'm not worried i am positive CD will make a great game which will do Lara proud.

And will keep me out of trouble this spring. :)

beccaxx

dhama
2nd Mar 2007, 00:07
I dont know if a level editor would be possible... with the old tomb raider games the levels were built with triangles, easy to manipulate and relatively simple building block structure... whereas with legend and 10ann I believe dont use triangular block builds the levels have been more scuplted, whether that would be to technical to build into a level editor I dont know...

I love all your ideas guys... great response to my first thread... any other wish lists?


Just to clarify something Jontif, having a level editor with Anniversary won't be as difficult to use as you might think, I've used Unreal editor, and a Doom3 map editor, and although it takes a long time, maybe 100 times longer than editing with the old editor, it's the part I like best...... yeah, better than playing. So it wouldn't be wasted on me. ;)

Jontif
2nd Mar 2007, 15:07
Dont get me wrong... I liked the idea of the level editor although could never get it to work properly on the Mac. However I think the technical know-how to put it together plus the time it would take them may mean that we probably wont see a level editor for the forthcoming release...

CatSuit&Ponytail
2nd Mar 2007, 15:56
I have heard there won't be one anytime soon.

doctor willard
2nd Mar 2007, 16:19
level editors are just weird. it takes ages to get a good map going, maybe we should just leave it 2 edios to make some long decent maps instead of tryin 2 make our own. :D

LisaB1962
2nd Mar 2007, 16:24
As long as CD is using this engine, you won't see a level editor. They've got to protect their market, and with comparable TR games popping up for free all over the web, they can't do it.

It's not coincidence that the level editor was released with the last PSX-gen game. Lara was moving to the PS2, so fan-made levels with the older engine were not going to be in direct competition.

Treeble
2nd Mar 2007, 17:23
level editors are just weird. it takes ages to get a good map going, maybe we should just leave it 2 edios to make some long decent maps instead of tryin 2 make our own. :D

But only take a few minutes for others to get started and have a good time. But a rather large share of folk like to complain and nitpick about any and every little thing, so probably it's for the best they don't want to learn how to play the fantastic "old school" gems that fans come up with.

Fans love what they (are supposed to) praise, thus all that love is put into their work. Whether it is a fan film, a fanfic, a fanart, a cosplay or a custom level; yet we always come across people who can't find anything positive/constructive to say and keep overusing the 'mad' smilie whenever they can. And usually these people vanish before they can make anything half as good as what they loathe in public so repeatedly...

Sorry for venting out. I just had to. Hey be happy - I want this to be read, but I didn't post it on size 72 and bold to make sure it caught your eye... ;)

Tigerman68
2nd Mar 2007, 17:50
3.Music same as in Legend or better


You hit the nail on the head with this one! Music is huge to me in the TR games, and the soundtrack for Legend is the best I've heard for any video game ever. Heck, I even listen to it in the car!!

I got Legend on my PC, and I have to tell ya, there's something unique about it. When you plug in your headphones and play it on a laptop, it just adds a whole new dimension to the game. The music comes at you full force as you make your way through the challenging and heartpounding scenes of the game.

The only thing that could make it better on the computer is if it was in true 3D!! Imagine that!

Jontif
2nd Mar 2007, 22:51
Yeah I think the music was quite important in the first game. Even the opening title music still brings goosebumps and it is so synonymous with the fun and nostalgia and for the first time a game that I could truly submerge myself in. However it was relatively sparce in the first game and a lot of what went on in the game were odd sound effect - more of a soundscape than music. I personally think that Legend had too much music in... it distracted me at times and I lost the feeling of isolation and concentration at some points...

rabid metro
3rd Mar 2007, 01:36
I have heard there won't be *a level editor* anytime soon.

WAAAAAAH!

*neighbors start complaining once again*

... its not that i hate level editors, per se, its just that this means, to me, that CD wants to develop lara's future for awhile ... WAAAAAAHHHH!!!

*neighbors break-in*
*neighbors freeze when they see the looping 10ann trailers*
*neighbors begin dancing*
*waaaaah*


They say that rumors are either true or not true. ;) :)

pinkangel07
3rd Mar 2007, 05:56
1. Light so I can see, or at least a good flare/light
2. NO SAVE CRYSTALS
3. controls that don't hurt my left thumb (ow! for PS2 version, at least)
4. NO SAVE CRYSTALS!!
5. A classic rendition of Lara's home. (but if it is Legend, I dont mind:))

Biggsyboy
3rd Mar 2007, 09:41
1.Massive Map just like old Tomb Raiders where you get lost all the time
2.Two Pistols
3.Boulders
4.Lara's Home
5.Keys that are hid in the hardest places to get too,

beinlich
3rd Mar 2007, 12:08
1) Better controls. More deterministic. Pressuresensitive walking sucks.
2) Sense of isolation (probably most important, this is TB remember?)
3) Enemies that are in no position to relate to your situation. You are a trespasser, this is their only motivation for killing you.
4) Uniformity without beeing repitative. (whats with the gunfights in the cities?? This is not TB)
5) Tune plays only when there is no option not to, like when first gazing over a enormous room/lake/etc.
and I also need to mention:
6) BIG VISUAL REVELATIONS.


I feel like the sense of isolation is lost. The game is no longer dark. Those who has been along long enough to follow the brands detoriation, will probably remember the feeling of lonlyness and excitement in TR1. I think the key to raising the sleeping giant is dark and large caves in places lost in the wilderness.

munchkin
3rd Mar 2007, 14:38
1. Light so I can see, or at least a good flare/light
2. NO SAVE CRYSTALS
3. controls that don't hurt my left thumb (ow! for PS2 version, at least)
4. NO SAVE CRYSTALS!!
5. A classic rendition of Lara's home. (but if it is Legend, I dont mind:))

soo no save crystals then? :lol:

part of me agrees but that feeling of triumph of actually making it to the next save crystal was such a big part of TR1 it woudl be sad to loose them. Maybe they could do them like TR3 where you collect them and choose when to use them :)

beccaxx

doctor willard
3rd Mar 2007, 14:42
im still going with the better takedown of the animals... it wud be cool if when u have to fight the t-rex you could jump onto its back and tickle it behind the ears making it go crazy and running into a tree...:rasp:

munchkin
3rd Mar 2007, 14:47
im still going with the better takedown of the animals... it wud be cool if when u have to fight the t-rex you could jump onto its back and tickle it behind the ears making it go crazy and running into a tree...:rasp:

ROFLMAO

http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/lachen/laughing-smiley-018.gif http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/lachen/laughing-smiley-018.gif http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/lachen/laughing-smiley-018.gif http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/lachen/laughing-smiley-018.gif http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/lachen/laughing-smiley-018.gif http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/lachen/laughing-smiley-018.gif

shurik
3rd Mar 2007, 17:22
1. Graphics
2. Music
3. Gameplay
4. More Puzzles
5. Lara her self :)

LisaB1962
3rd Mar 2007, 17:50
soo no save crystals then?

I know I read somewhere about the checkpoint chime (was it in Gorangar's First Contact?) so the Legend checkpoint system is back. I really disliked it because I don't like "surprise saves". At least with the crystals I knew where they and didn't get accosted with saving.

pinkangel07
3rd Mar 2007, 18:23
I always managed to die in the old ones... always... it was pretty much rediculous... "There was qucksand there?" "Oops, didn't know the floor would collapse" "Ah! I'm on fire!" "Didn't see THAT slope" "I'm drowning! Where's the surface" "Please tell me I didn't just get killed by a monkey..." "I was shot by a poison arrow? What...???"

and the list goes on.

lmao:lol: :nut:

sophie22
4th Mar 2007, 12:36
in no particular order

music
sound effects - like the echoing caverns in TR1
locations - i loved the diversity of TR3
characters
game length - there is nothing worse than a short game.

ditom
4th Mar 2007, 14:49
You hit the nail on the head with this one! Music is huge to me in the TR games, and the soundtrack for Legend is the best I've heard for any video game ever. Heck, I even listen to it in the car!!

I got Legend on my PC, and I have to tell ya, there's something unique about it. When you plug in your headphones and play it on a laptop, it just adds a whole new dimension to the game. The music comes at you full force as you make your way through the challenging and heartpounding scenes of the game.

The only thing that could make it better on the computer is if it was in true 3D!! Imagine that!

Yes,the true 3D is great idea !
I listen music from TRL in my mp3 player and it's awsome.
Check out soundtrack from level in Nepal.This is the best "track".

doctor willard
4th Mar 2007, 16:02
the echo in the caves wasn't just in TR1, it was in all of them, up until AOD. but yeh, the original echo would be cool making a return.

it would be so awsome if one of my 5 suggestions makes it into the game though....

"lara enters the city of vilacambia....under doctor willards control.....then...wolves enter from different directions.....doctor willard presses the triangle button near a wolf and then......lara picks it up by the tail, swings it round over her head and hurls it into a wall!....the other wolves get scared and decide to run away...but they must die!!! lara grabs the nearest rock or stone, and hurls it at great speed into another wolf's head, making it richochet of and hitting the last wolf...then...as the bear approches...doctor willard presses triange again and lara jumps onto the bears back! it gets scared and runs into a tree at 15mph"


yeh, that wud be so cool :D

Jontif
4th Mar 2007, 21:29
LOL @the bear and tickling the T-Rex...classic

dhama
4th Mar 2007, 23:28
Dont get me wrong... I liked the idea of the level editor although could never get it to work properly on the Mac. However I think the technical know-how to put it together plus the time it would take them may mean that we probably wont see a level editor for the forthcoming release...


I was told by a representitive of Crystal Dynamics.... "never say never". ;)

dhama
4th Mar 2007, 23:32
level editors are just weird. it takes ages to get a good map going, maybe we should just leave it 2 edios to make some long decent maps instead of tryin 2 make our own. :D

http://www.trle.net ;)

G4mefr3ak88
5th Mar 2007, 02:40
You hit the nail on the head with this one! Music is huge to me in the TR games, and the soundtrack for Legend is the best I've heard for any video game ever. Heck, I even listen to it in the car!!

I got Legend on my PC, and I have to tell ya, there's something unique about it. When you plug in your headphones and play it on a laptop, it just adds a whole new dimension to the game. The music comes at you full force as you make your way through the challenging and heartpounding scenes of the game.

The only thing that could make it better on the computer is if it was in true 3D!! Imagine that!

========================================================

Man, i totally agree with you guys! I also felt as if the music in Legend was amazing. And I also like to listen to it over and over again, hehe :nut: .

Alexlovesguns
6th Mar 2007, 17:38
The music was very good for TR:L but... i like the classic music from the old games so i hope we end up with a mix or something.

5 important things...

Exploration
Complex and well thought level design (no fillers like Paraiso...).
Originality
The main TR character is not Trinity, Angelina Jolie or the prince of persia..
Game focus
Less focus on the character and more on the game, im not buying a tr game to stare at a virtual character in diferent clothing and airstyle.
Optimised/bug free
No graphical glitches or corruption (there were a few in TR:L).
Lenght
A significantly larger gaming experience, beating an old TR on my own used to be an accomplishment.

doctor willard
6th Mar 2007, 20:17
those level editors may have been cool, but they arnt part of the real story are they!

edios knows whats best for lara and i think we should let them do the designing since they had so much experience with creating the levels.

pinkangel07
6th Mar 2007, 23:29
Treeble...
yet we always come across people who can't find anything positive/constructive to say and keep overusing the 'mad' smilie whenever they can. And usually these people vanish before they can make anything half as good as what they loathe in public so repeatedly...

So you are just as frustrated as I am? lmao, and I think I know EXACTLY who this description fits...

Level editor or not, it doesn't bug me. I've never played any, and probably never will because I play on the PS2.

ditom
7th Mar 2007, 16:15
Treeble...

So you are just as frustrated as I am? lmao, and I think I know EXACTLY who this description fits...

Level editor or not, it doesn't bug me. I've never played any, and probably never will because I play on the PS2.

I play on PC but I don't play any other levels but only original.