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View Full Version : Question / Suggestion about Mouse Flying



ID10T
10th Feb 2007, 19:26
I have yet to find this option, so I figure maybe it's non-existent, but what about turning off the autocenter for mouse flight.

Basically, have plane fly towards the cursor. The flying is pretty well arcade based, so might as well make the controls match up.

As it stands, when you move your mouse up (if you have inverted your axis), your plane will dive AS LONG AS YOUR MOUSE IS MOVING UP. Once you stop moving your mouse up, the plane autocenters and you have to physically pick your mouse up and relocate it so you can continue to dive. The same goes for all of the other plane axis with mouse.

This setup is not conducive to dogfighting.

I recommend taking a look at Microsofts Freelancer (cheesy space game, but it was good for what it was [which was not a sim]). That game used a very accessible control scheme. Even though I prefer joystick controls for any kind of flight sim, I'll go with dumbed down controls for a game with a more arcade type of feel as long as the controls fit with the playstyle of the game.

As it stands, the game's flight section is really only worthwhile with a joystick (unless you forked up the bigger dollars for the saitek X52 which isn't even supported in this game) or a gamepad. So what about people that don't have either? They just get stuck with crappy controls?

This is just a suggestion to the devs (or modding community if there is one) for a future patch.

It's a great game, please don't let little things like this alienate a large portion of your customers.

MixedupJim
10th Feb 2007, 20:13
although i don't use the mouse for flying, i totally agree that the freelancer control method was inspired and worked very, very well. In fact it should be made law that developers have to use it as a control method whenever they make a 3rd person flight sim. It surprising how innovations like that seem to get overlooked.


There is nothing worse than running out of mouse mat mid dogfight :nut:

chip5541
11th Feb 2007, 07:41
There is nothing worse than running out of mouse mat mid dogfight :nut:


Bwahahaha!! :lmao:

Been there, done that :nut:

Hoek
11th Feb 2007, 15:20
As it stands, when you move your mouse up (if you have inverted your axis), your plane will dive AS LONG AS YOUR MOUSE IS MOVING UP. Once you stop moving your mouse up, the plane autocenters and you have to physically pick your mouse up and relocate it so you can continue to dive.

Well, this is not the only game with similar screw up with the controls. The thing which puzzles me is why would any game developer do such half-ass-crappy-controls? I mean do they actually think the planes are flown that way?? Not with mouse ofcourse, but for example in a take off the pilot would pull the stick towards himself and when he can't pull it anymore due to physical limitations he would unscrew the stick from whatever it is attached to, move it forward, then screw it back on, pull it towards himself again and repeat the whole routine to just make the damn plane fly higher. That is just so freaking stupid. What a crappy design. I'd fire the loser who approved the controls.

I'm sorry for the language. This kind of stupidity gets under my skin every single time..

MixedupJim
11th Feb 2007, 19:31
The thing is this is an xbox 360 game, so the developers probably said "meh, mouse control is crap but 360s don't have them so no worries."

EuT.be
12th Feb 2007, 10:22
How do you think we fly in all the Battlefield games. Also with keyb/mouse setup and if you see some of these pilots, those are the elite players vs joystick or gamepad. it is how you bind and set this configuration to function on your way of flying.

Just keep on binding/unbinding key's and mousebuttons/axis's to your needs and untill you've found your best feeling of flying the keyb/mouse combo.

Hoek
12th Feb 2007, 13:30
Just keep on binding/unbinding key's and mousebuttons/axis's to your needs and untill you've found your best feeling of flying the keyb/mouse combo.

What a marvelous idea. Just keep on binding/unbinding/rebinding/hitting your head against the wall. You can keep on doing that for all eternity and the keyb/mouse flying will be as crappy as it was at the start. It's far from being the best possible way no matter what you do. The controls are screwed as long as the y-axis autocenter feature can not be turned off.

ID10T
12th Feb 2007, 14:16
Just keep on binding/unbinding key's and mousebuttons/axis's to your needs and untill you've found your best feeling of flying the keyb/mouse combo.

I'm assuming you are probably using a joystick or a gamepad, and not the mouse/keyboard scheme, otherwise you would have seen how inefficent either one is for flying.

Sure you can setup your WASD keys for Dive and Roll commands, but even with adjusting the sensitivity, you still don't get the fine control that you could have with the mouse. You can either finely adjust your strafing run or dogfighting and not be able to pull loops very effectively, or you can pull loops but will have problems dogfighting and strafing.

Trust me, I tried numerous combinations (even macros on my Nostromo Speedpad) before I gave up and used my gamepad instead (NOW EVERYTHING DIES!!!!), but I said what I said because of people who only have a keyboard and mouse.

Basically, the autocentering is killing the keybd/mouse flight controls of this game and preventing it from being as accessible as it should be.


Also, MixedupJim said that the game was developed for 360 and that they didn't put in much time into the "inferior" mouse and keyboard scheme. That's fine with me if they want to restrict their market like that, but it's unethical/immoral/other deragatory term that they present the game as being setup for mouse and keyboard Either say on the box "Not optimized for Keyboard and Mouse gameplay", or make that control scheme work the way it should.

It makes me wonder if they had anyone beta that part of the game, and if they did, did that just ignore the complaints?

EuT.be
12th Feb 2007, 14:47
I'm assuming you are probably using a joystick or a gamepad, and not the mouse/keyboard scheme, otherwise you would have seen how inefficent either one is for flying.
Euhmz, No, not using the gamepad just only for my ships. I'm flying Keyb/Mouse combo and not having that center problem you're talking about. Like I said, it's all about setting your keyb/mouse, make use of the alternative bindings and stuff. I can loop pretty well thanks to the WASD feature and aim pretty hot with the mouse! Yet, may I add, if I take control with one input, I've somewhat have to "force" the control of the other input. Seems like the game forgets the used input if you're swithing between these.

If I'm using my gamepad to fly, I still need to aim with the mouse because else I'm hitting nothing but air with the gamepad.

As I alway knew, if they develop a game mainly for console followed for pc then be sure it isnt as decent as it should if they developped the game for pc in first grade followed by console. Because, as you notice, the Gfx & sounds to pc are missing (this in tweaks or basics) as the configurations towards keyb/mouse/jstick/gpad.

In theory I dont buy, nor even try games which has a based console development and has a release for pc, but this game was worth a challenge and still, the reason why I never buy games like these are yet again prooven once more. The lack of improovements vs pc are always notice-able thanks to these persons who are so lame (or even so called "poor") of getting a decent pc and in this way encourage the development of games for console and then letting them port to pc. Somethimes it's still like this: Console = Cool ; PC = nerdish!

ID10T
13th Feb 2007, 00:43
I'm flying Keyb/Mouse combo and not having that center problem you're talking about. Like I said, it's all about setting your keyb/mouse, make use of the alternative bindings and stuff. I can loop pretty well thanks to the WASD feature and aim pretty hot with the mouse! Yet, may I add, if I take control with one input, I've somewhat have to "force" the control of the other input. Seems like the game forgets the used input if you're swithing between these.


Interesting playstyle method. I'm actually the complete opposite. I'm using dual-analog gamepad (is that what you have as well?) for flying and it works great. On the other hand, I use mouse/kybd to control ships and subs.

I knew I forgot to point out something, which was as you said it, the problem with alternative keybindings. If I tried to do mouse and keyboard in tandem for vertical and horizontal flight, the two would cause massive conflicts. Keyboard alone was either too responsive, or not responsive enough. Mouse, on the other hand had the auto-center issue. BTW, are you using a mouse or a trackball? A trackball would seem to be an effective user-end solution to the problem seeing as you don't "run out of pad" on a trackball.

You said you couldn't see the issue with mouse as some of us have talked about. Try to fly with just your mouse, and try to pull a loop with movement of your mouse. Just move it up or down once the full extent that your mousepad allows. Unless you have a BIG mousepad (or a trackball), then mid loop, your plane will stop climbing (of diving) and head in a straight course rather than complete the loop.

Try it and see.

EuT.be
13th Feb 2007, 06:03
Dont have a trackball and dont even have a mousepad. I'm simply using my desk which gives enough space to move the mouse over. I just hate these pads because I've got sweaty palms and each time the pad is sticking on them instead of my desk. As I'm still not complaining of my "Logitech MX510"

I've got a "Logitech Rumblepad 2" as gamepad and am still mastering the controls in order for perfect plane flights and fights. I'm mastering boats/subs/carriers very well with the rumblepad.

Hoek
13th Feb 2007, 11:03
I'm flying Keyb/Mouse combo and not having that center problem you're talking about. Like I said, it's all about setting your keyb/mouse, make use of the alternative bindings and stuff. I can loop pretty well thanks to the WASD feature and aim pretty hot with the mouse!

The topic is all about flying the plane with a mouse and using the keyboard for the rudder and the throttle ONLY, which is quite commonly used setup among the flight simulators. It looks to me that you aren't actually flying with the mouse, but more like with the keyboard. I'm quite sure you do the loop with the S-key rather than moving the mouse, right? In other words, you've come up with an alternative solution to the problem rather than addressing the real issue. Unfortunately it is not good enough. I, as well as the original poster, want to use the mouse for flying, because it is a lot more precise and easier to use, not to mention more "realistic" and "logical". Now, as long as the silly autocenter feature stays on the mouse flying is completely ruined. It is pointless to argue about changing the keybindings, because it is totally irrelevant. I don't want the 2nd best, I want the real thing!

poisonpill
13th Feb 2007, 21:37
Personally I just bind "pull up" to spacebar. Pulling up is what you gotta do the most anyway while flying. So instead of yanking on the mouse up and down over and over to do say a 180 turn, I just hold down the spacebar.

IMO, I think you are overstating your case that it's "killing the game" that you can't turn autocentering off. Flying games all the way from X-Wing to Descent to Battlefield2 makes you fly this way and there doesn't seem to be a big uproar.

I've flown with a HOTAS joystick setup and with the mouse and I can get used to either one. The mouse is actually better for gun-centric flying due to its extra precision.

Hoek
14th Feb 2007, 10:49
Personally I just bind "pull up" to spacebar. Pulling up is what you gotta do the most anyway while flying. So instead of yanking on the mouse up and down over and over to do say a 180 turn, I just hold down the spacebar.

Isn't it great that you have to bind a separate key to overcome the retarded design? What if there would by a button in the options page, which would turn the y-axis autocenter on/off? Would you like that better or would you still use the silly space bar?


IMO, I think you are overstating your case that it's "killing the game" that you can't turn autocentering off. Flying games all the way from X-Wing to Descent to Battlefield2 makes you fly this way and there doesn't seem to be a big uproar.

What in earth are you talking about? I don't remember playing Descent with a mouse so I'll just ignore that, but the X-Wing as well as the Battlefield2 (or 1) has proper mouse flying. Pick ANY flight simulator and you'll find the same controls there too. Virtually every single game providing mouse flying either has an option to turn off the autocentering or doesn't have any autocentering for mouse at all.