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View Full Version : Angry Tomb Raider fan and Xbox 360 owner.



Llamadeus
25th Jan 2007, 10:17
I grew up playing the original Tomb Raider games on my older cousin's PS1, and later on my Dreamcast. The first Tomb Raider was one of the very first 3D games I ever played, and I spent hours just running around and exploring Lara's house.

It was because of this that I was willing to pay the $59.99 plus 7% sales tax for the game on my 360 before even playing the demo and when I could have payed $20 less for the PS2, Gamecube or Xbox versions.

Since then, I have traded in my older consoles, but have kept TRL in my collection even though the game was short, has no Xbox Live support, and I quickly acquired all 1000 achievements.

What's the deal then? Was I wrong in thinking this is a franchise that I would continue to enjoy moving into the new generation of consoles? I refuse to rebuy a PS2 just to play this game and am insulted that I am being left out when Eidos has shown continued support of the Xbox 360.

Shouldn't you be trying to win back fans with this franchise?

Samoth
25th Jan 2007, 11:25
they should be trying to get a classy game,
not a game on every console there is.

nightwishgirl84
25th Jan 2007, 11:48
i agree with Samoth

Llamadeus
25th Jan 2007, 12:51
I honestly can't see how that is a concern, much less an issue.

Legend was released on three times as many platforms as Angel of Darkness, and it was clearly the better game. Besides, Crystal Dynamics has nothing else but the next generation Tomb Raider on their agenda, and you have companies like Ubisoft with multiple successful franchises on almost all platforms, some of which have exclusive content on each console. You also have a classic franchise like Sonic the Hedgehog. Which recently tanked on the 360 with only a limited release on two consoles, and the PS3 version was even delayed.

It isn't like a whole lot can go wrong with this game either. The foundation has already been layed with the Legend engine on several consoles, and the story and setting is readily available to CD since this is a remake of the original game. Most of the work is already done, they just have to put two and two together.

Either way, the game can come to different consoles on different dates. I don't mind waiting a little longer to get it. Which is better than not getting it at all.

I just fail to see the logic behind this move. There is obviously a larger player base with the PS2, but Legend was highly successful and a great game. How many new fans did that game create, and how many more could a remake of the original bring in? Not to mention those of us who have moved on and no longer play on Playstations. It just feels like a big slap in the face, especially since I was ready to support the franchise on the 360, and I am sure there are plenty of others like me over on the TRL forums on Xbox.com.

Treeble
25th Jan 2007, 13:53
I don't think it's a smart decision either. They could full well have the game ported to Wii and Xbox360, but they don't want to. And everybody else (read as - PS2 fanboys) fail to understand that the game is not affected on how many ports it's gonna get.

ditom
25th Jan 2007, 21:40
But there are a lot of games that I can't play on my PC because producers made them for xbox360 or ps2

aussie500
25th Jan 2007, 23:50
Well basically they made it for the fans of the franchise, you know the fans that still play the originals. The only game you can play on an XBox 360 is Legend, so if that is all you are playing you cannot like the old games to much. They have decided to release the game on the platforms that those interested in the old games would still have, and the PSP version was thrown in as an extra. Seems like a good business strategy to me, since most of the sales for Legend would have also been PS2 and PC

Llamadeus
26th Jan 2007, 00:09
Your logic is laughably flawed, aussie500.

Like I stated in my early post, I played the original games on a PS1 and later a Dreamcast.

The games and the fans were never exclusive to one console. Like I said, not all of us still play on Playstations, even though we grew up on them. According to Microsoft, half of 360 owners are new to the Xbox franchise, like myself.

As for how dedicated you "fans" really are, can you explain to me why then the 360 version of Legend outsold the PS2 version in its first month?

http://biz.gamedaily.com/industry/toppers/?id=12905


According to the NPD, Tomb Raider: Legend for 360 and PS2 were the number 11 and 13 best sellers during April, respectively. Overall, 232,100 units of the game were sold in April in the U.S. alone.



Some of us are actually willing to $20 or more for the game, and not wait around until its collecting dust in a bargain bin to buy it.

I'll be back in 2008 when Legend 2 is only for 360 and PS3 to see if you guys are still clinging to your PS2s in denial.

Besides, this is a REMAKE of the ORIGINAL Tomb Raider. I can't think of a better way to introduce new fans into the franchise, which is something that is good for ALL of us. Especially since Legend has already been done on the 360 and gave us a glimpse into Lara's backstory and a cliff-hanger ending that left us wanting more.

Also, the success of the Prince of Persia series on the Xbox and the hype for Assassin's Creed is proof enough that this genre can succeed on the Xbox platform, regardless of where it's roots are.

CatSuit&Ponytail
26th Jan 2007, 08:12
As with all decisions like this, we have no idea what consoles are actually in the end going to be graced with the game at this time. If it starts off with only the PC and one other, it can easily be ported to several consoles later, like Legend was.

There is no reason to be upset ...yet. ;)

I never thought I'd see Legend for the 'Cube, but here it is, staring at me. :D And I am overjoyed about it.

Llamadeus
26th Jan 2007, 09:02
Thanks, CatSuit&Ponytail. I guess thats sort of the answer I was hoping for by coming here.

I want to apologize to anyone if I came across as an a**hole, but like I said in the topic, I'm ANGRY and I wasn't really up for arguing with console fanboism here. :mad: ****

This is one of the franchises I grew up on, and would like to continue both playing and supporting.

CatSuit&Ponytail
26th Jan 2007, 10:28
I understand completely. :)

I also want to continue enjoying this series as long as it's produced. And I hope to have it in every format it's released on. PC, PocketPC, Dreamcast, Saturn, PS1 and PS2, Xbox1 and 360, GameCube and Wii, PSP, Java, Alphabits, Chocolatebars, Cold Drinks.....well, you get the picture. ;)

Treeble
26th Jan 2007, 14:08
This is one of the franchises I grew up on, and would like to continue both playing and supporting.

Unfortunately it's inevitable. I'm a Nintendo supporter (or fanboy, if you prefer) yet I also grew up with Tomb Raider, on PC. I do value my GameCube a lot better than my PC, and I'm so glad I can still enjoy newest games in the franchise on that platform by a lucky last minute (it seemed like it was an actual April 1st joke, in fact...) decision.

I certainly hope that they will bring TR:A to a Microsoft and a Nintendo console, it's just plain senseless trying to capture new fans AND old fans that had lost faith in the franchise with the most disappointing PS2 EXCLUSIVE AOD by releaseing Legend on a number of different consoles and then have the next one as exclusive to a single platform as the one that crushed the franchise in a not so distant past.

So, Eidos, wii want Tomb Raider! And Xbox owners do so, too. Don't let us down AGAIN, ever. Thanks.

Raider0011
28th Jan 2007, 20:12
I agree 100% that Anniversary should be released on both XBox 360 and Wii. It simply does not make good business sense to limit a big franchise like Tomb Raider to one or two consoles... I hope that Eidos announces a version of Anniversary for XBox 360 and Wii soon.

Mangar The Dark
29th Jan 2007, 16:19
I agree that it should be released on various consoles.

To Samoth, who wrote, "they should be trying to get a classy game,
not a game on every console there is." Would you be saying that if Eidos announced they were only making it for the Xbox 360 and not your PS2? I doubt it. And I don't see why they can't make a "classy" game that comes on multiple platforms... it happens all the time in this business.

To Aussie500, who wrote, "...so if that is all you are playing you cannot like the old games to much." You didn't think this through very well. Of course I like the old games, and I still play them on my PC, a system which is perfectly capable of playing games that were made 10 YEARS AGO. I doubt Anniversary will have the same system requirements as the previous games in the series. My PC couldn't handle Legend, either, but I was able to play it just fine on my Xbox, and I'm hoping I'll be able to do the same when Anniversary comes out.

Any PS2 owner who is against Eidos releasing the game on multiple platforms is just being selfish, and I'll never understand that mentality. Jade Empire, for example, was a great Xbox RPG, and I'm very happy that they have now released it on the PC, because it means more people will get to experience it. I'm not sitting around saying, "DAMN IT! It was supposed to be just for us Xbox owners!!!!!" In fact, I'd be glad if they released it on even more platforms so everyone could try it out. Same thing with KOTOR.

Legend
29th Jan 2007, 18:08
Don't forget that the time Eidos and Crystal Dynamics has to make this game is very short compared to Legend. I don't know much about making games but I'd imagine it takes quite sometime to transfer information from one formart, like the PS2, to another format like 360. Besides, it's the Anniversary Edition. Last time I checked Xbox didn't exist in 1996. People keep saying that Eidos is trying to get new fans on board with this game since it's a enhanced version of the original game that started this saga but I don't see it like that because they're not releasing it on other systems, obviously making their market smaller. I think this is more like a "thank you for sticking around for 10 years (11 now)" game...like the e-mail stated if you have an account on the official Tomb Raider site. I think this is more about keeping the fans Eidos has now loyal and happy. Legend was really about getting new fans as it started off with a fresh plate. The sequal to Legend isn't really a starting point either because it's in the middle of a story. I think we've passed that whole "it's a starting point for new fans to jump on" boat.

Raider0011
29th Jan 2007, 18:52
Mangar The Dark: I love your post. Very well said. I will never understand the selfish fanboyism either...

Legend: There is just no way in the world that Eidos is investing the kind of money that it takes to develop a game as nothing more than a "Thank You" to the fans... It's a nice thought, but not possible... They ARE hoping to bring on board new fans with a snazzy re-release of the game that launched their biggest franchise. Even if they were releasing this game as no more than a "Thank You", there are a LOT of XBox owners that are long time fans of the franchise. Remember, TR1 came out on Sega Saturn before it came out on PS1, and many of the Sega fans moved over to Microsoft's console when Sega folded its console business. I know of a great number of Nintendo fans that are longtime fans of the franchise as well. This argument is simply illogical (Though I know someone is going to post this same story again tomorrow...)... :mad2: With regards to development time, with Anniversary coming out on PC, there is not much involved in bringing the game to XBox 360 (Have you heard of the XNA Development package Microsoft released to try to help developers do this affordably and timely?). I do not know much about Wii development, but from what I have read developers are finding the console very easy to develop for. It offers challenges, as all consoles do (Motion Sensing Capability anyone?), but I think it's well worth it for the opportunity to bring in more fans to Eidos' big franchise. Using your logic though, if it ended up costing Eidos money in the end to bring the game to the Wii, wouldn't it be worth it, as the game was for the fans?? :rolleyes:

Being anything but a selfish fanboy, I hope that good games come out on as many consoles as possible so more fans can enjoy them. Jade Empire was a classic example. I was glad to see that they were expanding the game to the PC so that more fans could enjoy it. A PlayStation Fanboy would have been all upset (For some unknown / bizarre reason mind you) that someone else was getting to enjoy a game that graced their beloved console... I will never understand this.

Rusty_DK
30th Jan 2007, 07:45
A PlayStation Fanboy would have been all upset (For some unknown / bizarre reason mind you) that someone else was getting to enjoy a game that graced their beloved console... I will never understand this.

??? What does that mean ???

Treeble
30th Jan 2007, 13:11
That everyone who owns a PS2 is getting all upset because Eidos could port the game to other platforms, like the Xbox and Wii.

Now if the game was turned into a Xbox exclusive, they'd get really pissed just like the rest of us (Microsoft / Nintendo users) are. Some people simply lack on empathy. :rolleyes:

Unity2012
30th Jan 2007, 13:30
Llamadeus: You do have a very valid point! Period. Eidos, why bring your franchise to the next gen field, flirt with the fans base, only to cut them off your next project?

Mangar the Dark: Great Post!

*Especially after the disaster that was AOD, the TR team should be a little bit more conscious, assertive, confidence however not fearful about the way to approach their fans. Ask them across the boards if you are not sure about it. The internet is a great tool when in doubt.


:cool:

Raider0011
30th Jan 2007, 17:33
I don't think Eidos is going to cut the other consoles out of their next Tomb Raider game, as TR Legend ended in a cliff hanger. Is it possible, sure, but it just wouldn't make sense. Legend sold well on all consoles as well.

Thank you Treeble for explaining a comment I thought was clear. I apologize if it was not. When I followed Sega's consoles I did not begrudge Sony fans for the games that were released on the PS1 as well. When I became an XBox user, I also did not get upset when a game was released on the PS2 as well, yet PlayStation fanboys always go nuts because a game is coming out on another console as well... It's bizarre and selfish...

TRBeth
3rd Feb 2007, 02:15
Most TR fans, especially console players, will keep their old systems knowing full well that they will never be able to play the classics on anything but the old consoles.

Legend was made for 360 and high-end PC graphic cards, and most traditional fans really gave Eidos flack for emphasizing the next generation, when the old generation gamers could not take full advantage. Enough flack that, I believe, Eidos listened up to its "CORE" fan-base (pun intended).

Serious TR fans will not be giving up their old games or consoles so readily. And those fans are Eidos' bread and butter. Eidos and CD are doing right by the franchise's foundation fan-base.

A few bucks, and you can rent a ps2 or get a used system from Amazon or Ebay.

rabid metro
3rd Feb 2007, 08:43
... I believe, Eidos listened up to its "CORE" fan-base ...

... i luv you ... :whistle:

(((are you gonna be in my dreams tonite?)))

They say that in THE END the love you take is equal to the love you make ... :rolleyes:

StarChampagne
3rd Feb 2007, 14:27
Legend was made for 360 and high-end PC graphic cards, and most traditional fans really gave Eidos flack for emphasizing the next generation, when the old generation gamers could not take full advantage. Enough flack that, I believe, Eidos listened up to its "CORE" fan-base (pun intended).

Correct me if I'm wrong, but does this mean that 'old generation gamers' became annoyed because Legend was for high-end machines? Surely players cannot fault designers for keeping up with the times and producing games taking full advantage of modern technology? The only reasons 'old generation gamers' would not be able to take full advantage was because their machines couldn't handle the next gen goodness, and the designers can't be blamed for that. If your systemis old, complaining about next-gen is like saying, if I can't have it, nobody should.

My computer is quite old and therefore can't take next-gen, but next-gen only ever seemed to be the icing on the cake and not fundemental to gameplay. But this is just the way I see it :) Whatever reasons Eidos has for witholding it from the Xbox 360 (and, as CatSuit rightly points out, versions of the game on different platforms have appeared although they weren't announced at first :)) I personally don't believe it has anything to do with that. I think Eidos' primary concern is with profit.

Slim Vision
4th Feb 2007, 00:15
In my opinion all they're doing is catering to the most popular platforms. Legend probably sold the most on PS2, the others either being abysmally lower than projected or simply not the money maker they thought they were going to be. Indicating that perhaps they were seeing more old school fans returning who didn't care about hi def graphics or simply couldn't experience it what with the hardware not being up to scratch and all. If someone high up does actually take a blind bit of notice of the community, they have likely seen this trend for a want of the old school Tomb Raider and a the disregard for super duper graphics in favour of old school gameplay... So they coupled it all together;

They want old school TR.
They don't care about graphics.
The PS2 sold the most Legend copies.

Solution; Let's remake the original TR for PS2, and also a PC with the high end graphics to please everyone else!

Treeble
4th Feb 2007, 11:54
It doesn't justify releasing it on the PSP.

Slim Vision
4th Feb 2007, 22:25
Oh well, perhaps because the PS2 and PSP are essentially identical in hardware they probably thought, "Heck it wouldn't take anything to convert the PS2 code to PSP so let's do that too!"

Pablo.CT
5th Feb 2007, 17:01
I Think it would be a waste if they didnt release it on xbox/360. I would be severley disappointed. I dont want to have to buy a PS2 just to play 1 game, even if it is TR. Im hoping they will listen to our pleas and follow through on them:)

Raider0011
8th Feb 2007, 02:28
I agree 100%