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John Carter
3rd Dec 2006, 18:22
Interesting opinion article I found surfing about. The author finds the deaths in TR7 too easy, too forgetable, and thus flawed in providing the gamer motivation to be emotionally invested in the character and story.

http://thenewgamer.com/content/archives/tomb_raider_legend_the_many_deaths_of_lara_croft

I think the author may have a point. What do you think?

Sophia Leigh
4th Dec 2006, 00:48
I can't agree with the article, to me Lara doesn't seem the type to put on a performance even in death, she is a classy lady and dies accordingly. I wouldn't want extravagant deaths, thats not what the game is about. The big noise her bones made in the earlier games when she hit the ground from great heights was icky enough for me. And to G.Turner, Lets concentrate on gameplay and less on death performances ;) .

Interesting read nevertheless John, thanks for sharing. :cool:

Headache
4th Dec 2006, 01:24
I second Mum.
I mean... 'Too forgettable'? Hmm. Who exactly wants to remember her deaths? It is a game after all.
I find the game plenty interesting in and of itself.

Terminatorvs
4th Dec 2006, 07:15
And what should be better for Legend? What is this Legend-hater's idea? Should Lara curse everyone around her: "I'll see you all in hell, *************!" or maybe "AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!! you stupid *****!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!". I don't see the reason the death-scene should be amplified.

GoranAgar
4th Dec 2006, 20:22
There was something missing when Lara died in Legend and I could never put my finger on it. I agree, he does have a point.

shirl123
4th Dec 2006, 20:36
There was something missing when Lara died in Legend and I could never put my finger on it. I agree, he does have a point.

agreed. but maybe it's because of the "lighten-up" atmosphere in Legend...which isn't a bad thing, just diffrent from what we're used to ;)

LaraGirl216
5th Dec 2006, 17:44
I don't want her to die dramatically- Coz it makes me laugh lol :lol: :lol:

Treeble
5th Dec 2006, 19:45
I also agree to some extent - I do think Alister and Zip should show some sort of panic reactions like "OMG she fell! Lara? Lara! OMG OMG OMG what are we gonna do now" as the screen fades to black. Or something. :p The way they remain quietly silent makes me believe they just want to "inherit" her mansion and goods... :whistle:

_mil
6th Dec 2006, 10:51
lol. i always didnt like the way lara died, always hated to see it, and i think thats what pushed people not to let her die really (if they didnt set out to do it in the first place anyway)... but the way the screen just faded (in trl) out like that and nothingness. just an 'oommmphh' ... thats it. i think that she screamed when you fell from a high enough height, but im not to sure. it more then likely faded out. or she would fall in a 'no-go-zone' and then die right away like when climbing the temple in bolivia.
classic games, they game would in a sense mock you as it would stay on lara's 'corpse' for about 5 seconds if you didnt tap a button. its like a fear factor that drove people to think, she's real, and i need to nurture her....


theoretically speaking... :rasp:

Mr.LaraCroft
6th Dec 2006, 20:51
yea i agree with everyone..yea it was kinda funny when she died but then i would get angry and try not to kill her cause a lot of the time it did sound real gross..but it does give an effect on yea maybe i should try harder not to die because i don't want that to happen to her again..but on legend it was like boom she fell and that was it..but i agree with everyone..

StarChampagne
7th Dec 2006, 17:16
Interesting article :)

Never thought about it, but death never was a punishment in Legend. It doesn't bother me that much but it would be better, for me, if death was more than a brief flash of loading screen before continuing pretty much where you left off :) Game Over, perhaps? Or having to reload a game? And Zip/Alistair reacting would have been much more realistic. Although Lara kicking and screaming while dying... maybe not :D

ditom
8th Dec 2006, 16:49
Is that so important ?

shirl123
8th Dec 2006, 17:51
Is that so important ?

not too much, but it does affect the game-play a little.

CatSuit&Ponytail
9th Dec 2006, 08:53
I was not very interested in her dying in Legend, it had no meaning. THAT is a shame. Lara's death should mean something. To just fade to the menu is a diminishment of her importance. In the previous games, her death was something felt by the player, not something easily shrugged off. It made the game better, more realistic, and more engaging when one actually had to deal with Lara's bones crunching after a gloriously long scream after a missed (hard, which is another story) jump! The spike pits were great for making me wince in empathy. Empathy, yes, that's what is needed to make someone care about a character. I believed her when she said "Aaaaaaaooooo" and died in the fire.

In the same vein, disappearing bodies is a sham. A cheat. A throwback that is unwelcome in my games. I riddled that bad guy with bullets, I expect him to be laying there when I come back because I took the wrong turn....oh, wait..... ;)

Terminatorvs
9th Dec 2006, 11:40
I hardly ever saw Lara's death in the past games - my finger reaching the F6 key is way faster than any bullet, monster, dino and even the Earth-pull velocity.

Headache
10th Dec 2006, 00:10
I hardly ever saw Lara's death in the past games - my finger reaching the F6 key is way faster than any bullet, monster, dino and even the Earth-pull velocity.
Same here.
The second before I knew she'd die, Im already reloading. Not really keen on watching a death 'ritual'.

(But I do agree Z & A should have had some kind of reaction.)

Astara
10th Dec 2006, 02:46
Maybe deaths are quietly dealt with because the authors want to focus on game play? Focusing on death ... well, you want that, tune into coverage on Iraq, or the latest catastrophe.

Someone complained her death didn't mean anything. That's their choice. No one said they can't stop playing the game, and go light a candle or weep for a few hours. They complain of a trivialization of her death, yet they are the ones that play on like nothing happened. What, if the game doesn't force you to do something, you can't do it?

'sides -- this is a "T" rated game, not "M" -- don't really need too much excess blood and guts.

I can relate to Mr. Lara Croft, in one respect -- dying does tend to irritate me -- especially when repeated over and over...:mad2:

For "punishment"...ohmigawd. Chip&All...some of their lines just before a difficult game "moment"...they get repeated, again and again...ad naseum. Things like "Oh Hell no"-z...and boulder squished me again and again until I got it..."once again, we find ourselves climbing without climbing gear"-z; "my god Lara, it's simply gorgeous..."-a, or "there seems to be some oil seeping into the water table...do you suppose the architects did that on purpose?"-a l-"Well there's your answer....Ug..."

All of those little "gems" and others I gratefully am not thinking of at this second...oh no(remembered 2 more)...I suppose there is the more predictable..."bet you wish you could do that"...and "your movements betray your uncertainty...now its time to DIE!"...I'll probably be forever, mentally, scarred by those repeated mantras that are embedded in my my consciousness's last thoughts before death...what more trauma does one need?

It's deaths like those where one begins to appreciate "unnamed entities" and "dragons" to fight.

Another point: *any* death ritual, you have to remember -- in a game like this, you are going to be seeing it _alot_. Do you really want something "more"?

One more thing the "reviewer" doesn't seem to get -- dying is part of the game play. If it wasn't, why else would the game start me with 2 health packs at the beginning of England which have to last me until the level is almost over (well past the BOSS battle). You aren't supposed to use health packs -- if you get low on health, you just let the character die -- otherwise, you won't have them for when you need to fight the dragon. I must admit though, the dragon isn't so hard once you get used to him. Last time I was down there, I fought him and died twice trying to get used to gamepad. Then got peeved at the controls and went to back to keyboard... WHOMP...wiped 'is clammy green butt using no H.P.s. that was unexpected!).

A*a

floydthebarber
6th Jan 2007, 16:42
Remember in the original how she died under water? The body contortions and the final layout? Now that's dramatic!

LaraGirl216
7th Jan 2007, 08:10
oh yeah! No I am not being sarcastic. :D

Talking about dying I remember when I played it once (I think it was TR3)
It was in the desert and she fell off a cliff, and fell in Quicksand, but she was
screaming as she was sinking. At first I thought it was really funny, but then I felt mean! :(

floydthebarber
7th Jan 2007, 15:41
Lara shouldn't scream. It doesn't befit her character. Maybe an "Oh Bloody Hell" or something. :)

StarChampagne
7th Jan 2007, 17:59
'Good gracious me! I appear to have stepped off this precipice --'

I think even a lady is entitled to a blood-curdling scream as she unexpectedly falls a long, long way down to certain death :)

That scream terrified me. Now that I think about it, Lara dying in Legend wasn't so bad. Although when falling down waterfalls and things, it didn't seem realistic. She just bounced and sort of yelped.

Now Tomb Raider I, that was death. Falling all the way down St Francis' Folly accompanied by screams, only for the sickening crumple. Funniest death had to stepping on the Midas hand.

Astara - True about the 'punishment'; having to hear 'Now we know how young Arthur became king' so many times nearly destroyed what's left of my sanity. But I just hated Zip and Alistair, because if they weren't there, she wouldn't have said anything. Now if they didn't feature in the game, Lara's death could be made slightly more 'important' (this is failing the game, after all - and I'm not talking spewing blood, just something a little more memorable than fading into the blackness) without the infuriating banter over... and over... and over. Just my humble opinion anyhow :)

floydthebarber
7th Jan 2007, 18:20
Also in TR1, when she fell onto the lava from a great height. You had the scream of the fall, the crunch of the impact and the crackling of her burning body.

Midas' hand was awesome. She said nothing as I recall, just looked shocked as she turned into an "Oscar". :D

Now that I am re-facing the big mutant thingy near the end of Tr1, I see that her death at the hands of this thing is the most gruesome and spectacular of them all. She gets grabbed and banged on the ground many times, each time with sickening sounds. When she finally is released, you can see her crumpled body. Ouch!!!

GeckoKid
8th Jan 2007, 04:28
i tend to agree with the article.

and on the same topic, when i was 11, i was so scared of the big baby after the first time i saw lara being picked up and crushed! then i felt really sorry for her. now that's impact.