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MasterShuriko
9th Oct 2013, 20:13
I actually got around and made some thinking.

In the Soul Reaver game we are shown that Kain have raised a group of Lieutenants.
I´m not sure what they have done personally to Kain or how they serve him but I assume its to let them handle smaller errands sort of speak so that Kain can focus on bigger more serious things on the Horizon. Ofcourse they in turn handle the armies and their clans as they wish and only answear to Kain.

After all one person cannot handle too much information and may make a error in judgement and by having people under him as advisors and take some of that burden away must come naturally.

And heres wheres my thoughts comes into light.
Kain raised the Lieutenants that we know and these were Raziel, Melchiah, Zephon, Rahab, Dumah and Turel (not written down in order )

But even after raising them theres still what I believe is a pretty big chunk for these Lieutenants to handle alone.
And each of these Lieutenants made vampires from their own powers in turn and then Im wondering if Raziel, Melchiah, Zephon, Rahab, Dumah and Turel made a 2nd in Command a "Go to Guy" that would serve as a leader if the Clan-Leader was absent ie: already on a personal mission from Kain or in "the state of change".

And if the Original Clan-Leader was disposed of or otherwise long gone wouldnt the natural order have been for that 2nd in Command to mantle the new role as a leader for said Clan? Life finds a way sort of speak:

oijEsqT2QKQ]

ZeroFernir
9th Oct 2013, 20:21
I actually got around and made some thinking.

In the Soul Reaver game we are shown that Kain have raised a group of Lieutenants.
I´m not sure what they have done personally to Kain or how they serve him but I assume its to let them handle smaller errands sort of speak so that Kain can focus on bigger more serious things on the Horizon. Ofcourse they in turn handle the armies and their clans as they wish and only answear to Kain.

After all one person cannot handle too much information and may make a error in judgement and by having people under him as advisors and take some of that burden away must come naturally.

And heres wheres my thoughts comes into light.
Kain raised the Lieutenants that we know and these were Raziel, Melchiah, Zephon, Rahab, Dumah and Turel (not written down in order )

But even after raising them theres still what I believe is a pretty big chunk for these Lieutenants to handle alone.
And each of these Lieutenants made vampires from their own powers in turn and then Im wondering if Raziel, Melchiah, Zephon, Rahab, Dumah and Turel made a 2nd in Command a "Go to Guy" that would serve as a leader if the Clan-Leader was absent ie: already on a personal mission from Kain or in "the state of change".

And if the Original Clan-Leader was disposed of or otherwise long gone wouldnt the natural order have been for that 2nd in Command to mantle the new role as a leader for said Clan? Life finds a way sort of speak:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oijEsqT2QKQ

I think he could be in the command of the clan, but would not be their master (this affects the master-creation link theory) and would not have a sit on the Concil. Also, he wouldn't be a Lieutenant, but a lower title.

Umbralim
9th Oct 2013, 21:05
Vampires are undead.
you're argument is invalid.
:nut:jk

ZeroFernir
9th Oct 2013, 21:44
Vampires are undead.
you're argument is invalid.
:nut:jk

LOL, are undead but they have life =P

MasterShuriko
9th Oct 2013, 21:51
I was actually waiting for a answear like that xD

ZeroFernir
9th Oct 2013, 21:56
I was actually waiting for a answear like that xD

You were waiting to be trolled? lol!

Anacrothe
10th Oct 2013, 01:07
Yeah i think that would impose a limit if they just use the 6 lieutenants but who knows maybe they'll develop the story a bit more and we find out there were other vampires. Of course this will come with QQing and rage posts about pulling things out of their...=]

TendrilSavant
10th Oct 2013, 01:56
@Anacrothe: It's very well established that there were only 6 lieutenants (Raziel only speaks of his 5 brothers). But, that's not saying we can't have key players fighting during this time. For example "Morlock" the tomb guardian is a character that can be expanded upon in this game. Also there's no reason why the lieutenants could not have had favored or special vampires under their command.

ZeroFernir
10th Oct 2013, 01:58
@Anacrothe: It's very well established that there were only 6 lieutenants (Raziel only speaks of his 5 brothers). But, that's not saying we can't have key players fighting during this time. For example "Morlock" the tomb guardian is a character that can be expanded upon in this game. Also there's no reason why the lieutenants could not have had favored or special vampires under their command.

I would love to see some of Morlock's story =P

Umbralim
10th Oct 2013, 02:56
@Anacrothe: It's very well established that there were only 6 lieutenants (Raziel only speaks of his 5 brothers). But, that's not saying we can't have key players fighting during this time. For example "Morlock" the tomb guardian is a character that can be expanded upon in this game. Also there's no reason why the lieutenants could not have had favored or special vampires under their command.

Lets not forget the humans and the vampire worshipers we could re-expand on that and bring the high priestess back (cut from SE1) and someone must be leading the human forces in this fight i'd like to imagine an elite team of warriors like sarafan inquistors, which would be Ironic because that's who they'd be fighting.

ZeroFernir
10th Oct 2013, 11:51
Lets not forget the humans and the vampire worshipers we could re-expand on that and bring the high priestess back (cut from SE1) and someone must be leading the human forces in this fight i'd like to imagine an elite team of warriors like sarafan inquistors, which would be Ironic because that's who they'd be fighting.

I liked the idia =P
I would like to see some background about the commanders of both factions =P

MasterShuriko
10th Oct 2013, 12:49
Yay a nice discussion =D

Gryregaest
12th Oct 2013, 03:01
Well they obviously must have had a hierarchy in the clans if that's what you're getting at. One does not run a society without a social structure of some sort. They aren't bees.

Would one of the lieutenants to Kain's lieutenants take over the role of leader of the clan if something happened to said clan leader? Maybe, if they were a strong enough leader. Though it's more likely that the clan would splinter into different factions and probably have a civil war of some kind. Just like human monarchies when the king has no heir.

But if they did take over, their role would just be as a leader, it wouldn't be a direct replacement for the clan leader in question. Their roles are physiological as well as political.

ZeroFernir
12th Oct 2013, 20:30
I know is off-topic, but I always wanted to know. Who would win in a battle, a second generation razielim (direct son of Raziel) or Melchiah?

AlterRequiem
12th Oct 2013, 20:54
http://i.crackedcdn.com/phpimages/article/6/1/0/3610.jpg?v=1
do you mean to say that a group of all male vampires can reproduce?...

Lirka_
13th Oct 2013, 10:27
http://i.qkme.me/3t6eds.jpg
^^

ZeroFernir
13th Oct 2013, 15:59
http://i.crackedcdn.com/phpimages/article/6/1/0/3610.jpg?v=1
do you mean to say that a group of all male vampires can reproduce?...

GAAAAAAY =P kkkkkkkk it would feel strange to have gay vampires on LoK, where we always seen vampires as great warriors and stuff...

AlterRequiem
13th Oct 2013, 17:05
http://i.qkme.me/3t6eds.jpg
^^

I would have ragequit this forum if somebody didnt give me the proper response. thank you lirka lol.

The_Hylden
14th Oct 2013, 05:33
The position would fall to a second in command, sure. For the Razielim, they were all persecuted, but within their clan as they fled into hiding, they'd still be lead by someone, perhaps down the chain now after so many had been potentially killed.

The rest of the Clans have their leaders, currently, and so they have their seconds, and down the line, but what we'll see of their army commanders, or whatever their designated rank is, is uncertain.

ZeroFernir
15th Oct 2013, 01:06
The position would fall to a second in command, sure. For the Razielim, they were all persecuted, but within their clan as they fled into hiding, they'd still be lead by someone, perhaps down the chain now after so many had been potentially killed.

The rest of the Clans have their leaders, currently, and so they have their seconds, and down the line, but what we'll see of their army commanders, or whatever their designated rank is, is uncertain.

But there is any hint if the second is command is more (d)evolved than a normal clan's vampire?

Reidbynature
15th Oct 2013, 01:18
This talk about the clans and their second-in-command makes me wonder what state the devolved vampires of SR1 would be in post Raziel's cleansing of his brothers.