PDA

View Full Version : Attetion Thread To Cd - No Constant Music Please



Joshorty
23rd Nov 2006, 01:38
The scores Troels Fromann accomplished in TOMB RAIDER LEGEND were fabulous without a doubt. The scores fits in the mood of the gameplay at the right moment in time and place.

However, the game runs in a constant tune, leaving the background music running endlessly until we reach to a point of having the soundtrack change to fit in the right mood or whenever a specific cutscene occurs.

The problem?
It ruins the atmosphere of not only the game but the place you're in during the gameplay.

Take it from The level, Lost Valley (TOMB RAIDER I) for example. She entered an area in where there is total isolation with creatures that were thought extinct. Having the silence of isolation gives you the sense of isolation and perhaps, "fear" - making you really feel you're "attached" to the world Lara ventures. You're also able to hear the beautiful evniromental sounds from the waterfalls clearly giving you a sense of that you're all alone.

These factors hellps create this "atmosphere" TOMB RAIDER I had. Having constant music breaks the atmosphere- it kinda gives a sense that you're being watched by something.

Of course, there are times when the music comes in the right moment. Like when the suprising appearence of the T-Rex appeared with the fearful score that enchance the moments. Or whenever you see vast areas that are truly beautiful and amazing and has a triumphant score with it.

I try to sound very complicated here:D but Basically, NO CONSTANT MUSIC PLEASE
It was probably mentioned before but I thought they should REEEALY know:D

Please consider:D So whoever basically wants NO CONSTANT MUSIC, post:D and talk yaddiyada...

And since it's already confirmed recently that there's no Zip/Alister, it's not an issue no more:D

_mil
23rd Nov 2006, 09:14
And since it's already confirmed recently that there's no Zip/Alister, it's not an issue no more:D

Its not an issue that they're not there any more, its a pleasure.

:whistle:

It would be good to not have 'rush' music cued BEFORE the event occurs. What i mean is, hows about, you hear the T-Rex first with a giant roar, and to have it come out randomly so you will never expect either one... when that second one came out, major need-a-change-of-pants mode.... or was that just tr2 and no tr1 in there with he two also... hmmmm

One thing that was sorely missed in Legend was the fear-factor.... i don't know if it scared you yanks, but us Aussie's didn't find it harsh at all. Perhaps you need to watch some of the Saw movies to get what scary is (kinda). Things where very, VERY unexpected in the classics, but you just seemed to of 'watched' along with legend. And the music is the key. Best example of music that suits the situation the best, in TR2, when lara is driving in the car in the snow case. Best scene, best music/song!

Terminatorvs
23rd Nov 2006, 21:26
I would disagree. To my mind the first three "TRs" were very quiet - little music, little talking. If we go back to that, it'll be a major step back, not forward. I already mentioned, that when I was playing "TR2" recently, where Lara speaks really really rarely, I felt so lonely that I started speaking to myself. By the way, did you know, that if a human being doesn't speak to anyone for a rather long time, he'll lose his mind. His IQ will simply degrade to animal level. And about the music: did you really enjoy hearing the same old tune over and over again and again in different parts of the game? To my mind, that was the flaw. The fear factor that you mention is hardly even there. So, we're walking along a damp cave, and suddenly an animal jumps out and roars. Wow... So scary. IT'S NOT SCARY! NOT A BIT! Even when I played "TR1" a long time ago I did not feel scared even by mr. T-Rex. It's not even fear, it's simply a surprise - you're caught flat-footed. The thing that you feel is not fear, it's only a gasp, nothing more. If you want something scary play "Silent Hill" (any) or "F. E. A. R."

shirl123
24th Nov 2006, 12:25
I agree with you, Joshorty.
I think they shouldn't use it ANYMORE (yes, even on TR8), even though the TR7/TRL scores were amazing.
why? because:
1. like you said - "being watched" or something...totally ruins the atmosphere.
2. it makes the classic moments AND the music itself less dominant.

IMO, they should use MORE tunes, a big(ger) variety of background voices...but NO constant music. :)

Joshorty
24th Nov 2006, 21:24
:D But I understand what the others are saying for those who disagree, however. But it simply doesn't feel like a Tomb Raider no more. I understand at times we have to move on with the new and stuff...but if it ruins the atmosphere - whether we played Legend first or played the titles from before - it does kinda ruin it:scratch:

Its not an issue that they're not there any more, its a pleasure.

:whistle:

It would be good to not have 'rush' music cued BEFORE the event occurs. What i mean is, hows about, you hear the T-Rex first with a giant roar, and to have it come out randomly so you will never expect either one... when that second one came out, major need-a-change-of-pants mode.... or was that just tr2 and no tr1 in there with he two also... hmmmm

One thing that was sorely missed in Legend was the fear-factor.... i don't know if it scared you yanks, but us Aussie's didn't find it harsh at all. Perhaps you need to watch some of the Saw movies to get what scary is (kinda). Things where very, VERY unexpected in the classics, but you just seemed to of 'watched' along with legend. And the music is the key. Best example of music that suits the situation the best, in TR2, when lara is driving in the car in the snow case. Best scene, best music/song!
I thought thought having the music occur first wasn't a bad idea:D after a split second you see the T-Rex around the corner:D
But yeah I know what you mean by the "fear factor" - that's another thing that was gone. 'cause with the constant music, we don't feel the fear no more:( Well, whatever people calls it - the "surpise factor" if they're not scared. I miss those days:Dthe silence really pumps it up.

And Hehe I'm glad to hear today's news

"Thanks to the Tomb Raider Legend engine, this game looks incredible, with the sense of isolation that dominated the original experience being keyed in on."
http://www.tombraiderchronicles.com/headlines3058.html

That was from the PLAY MAGAZINE:D

Rascalius
30th Nov 2006, 23:20
The background music's awesome! This thread SUCKS!!

Headache
30th Nov 2006, 23:50
It doesn't really bother me... But I somewhat agree with shirl123

Treeble
1st Dec 2006, 00:01
FWIW, everytime I play Legend the constant music feels exactly like background music from the previous games, though instead of just sound of drips of water and the occasional strange noise we get a melody here. I just notice the constant music pumps up when there's action involved, but that's been pretty much the same the past 10 years. That might be just me though. Anyway, I think I'd rather stress over how many action figures the game will render. :p (BTW - hopefully, half a dozen at least! :D )

Mangar The Dark
1st Dec 2006, 21:45
The background music seemed well-suited for the game, IMO. It really didn't bother me at all. Of course, if they suddenly start putting in toe-tapping Lemmings-style music, it could get a bit annoying, but some subtle atmospheric music is ok.

Joshorty
1st Dec 2006, 22:56
The background music's awesome! This thread SUCKS!!
First of all I didnt' say the background music sucks or anything in Legend. It just breaks the atmosphere. It is my fault I didn't mention that they shouldn't do this for the upcoming Anniversary edition.

And 2nd...the past Tomb Raiders never got constant music. Of course, there are times when we need them when there's occasional gun fights and stuff but not ALL THE TIME. It kinda starts gettin' annoying after a while...maybe annoying isn't the right word here. It just doesn't feel right. Of course, that's my opnion but really, I think that's one of the things that kinda made Legend not as better as the Tomb Raider before - ESPECIALLY for the first Tomb Raider. ISOLATION is like the key word here. The sense of isolation...just imagine in the Caves in the first game for example..or the waterfall in Lost Valley..or in the Lost Valley. Legend never had any of this - even though she did go into Tombs..

Look at this picture:
http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/8916/scannen0009xcgs9.jpg

If you ask me, I'd rather listen to the enviromental sounds from there...of course in the RIGHT TIMING, it'll be then when we need the music (like the T-Rex...). This is TOMB RAIDER here :D

For those who never tried, try playing the game with the music (and maybe voice) off :D Click here (http://www.tombraiderforums.com/showthread.php?t=79000) if you really need to read it.

Treeble
1st Dec 2006, 23:08
And 2nd...the past Tomb Raiders never got constant music. Of course, there are times when we need them when there's occasional gun fights and stuff but not ALL THE TIME. (...) It just doesn't feel right. Of course, that's my opnion but really, I think that's one of the things that kinda made Legend not as better as the Tomb Raider before - ESPECIALLY for the first Tomb Raider. ISOLATION is like the key word here. The sense of isolation...just imagine in the Caves in the first game for example..or the waterfall in Lost Valley..or in the Lost Valley. Legend never had any of this - even though she did go into Tombs..

Sorry Josh, but like I said above. I've played Legend beginning to end at least 50 times (the only game that really makes me get any close to a Sony console, at least until me GameCube copy arrives) and despite having played the original games about the same amount of times, I never felt that Legend had 'constant music'. Probably I'm not understanding what you mean, but things WERE quite eerie as Lara got deeper and deeper into Tiwanaku's tombs in Bolivia and Peru, things were eerie as Lara hopped across Japanese rooftops, things were eerie, things were eerie into England's tomb, things were spooky in Nepal... and like I said, I'd only notice the "techo" music as folk define it during key action moments, such as the escapade in Peru and England, the gun fights etc etc, but that's the whole principle of microscoring - make sure the music adapts to player's actions.

Perhaps the 'isolation' thing will be brought without Alister and Zip. Damn, I'll miss them. :rolleyes: Maybe she gets to meet them in the end of the game on her way back home or something. :p

But I certainly hope Troels keeps his microscoring technique for Anniversary and whichever other TR games he gets to work for. It added not only a fresh change for the series, but also brought along many awards that the previous games scores, despite being most remarkalbe and loved by us all, never did. :)

I guess a little optimism from all of us wouldn't hurt, and this is coming from one of the most pessimistic guys anyone could ever get to meet. :rasp:

Joshorty
1st Dec 2006, 23:27
It's okay - everyone has their own opnions:D But what I'm trying to say really is that the Tomb Raiding experience is kinda broken with music that keeps on playing in the background.

You've played the previous titles before right:D? From Tomb Raider I - one of the things that makes the game SO GREAT (again I'll say) is the sense of ISOLATION - you're being completely trapped in and you're alone. This is not a place where anyone has entered therefore you get the sense you're alone, while hearing all the eerie noises in the background (not the music- the noises). Legend kinda lost that for it constantly plays the music.

Again, like key moments, that's for sure when they'll need those music to pump up the game. Honestly, I've never found a moment (this is my opnion) where I felt pumped up at all in Legend. With the silence following the key-music, it pumps me up:D

It's funny - I only noticed that because of Legend. And yeah, Zip/Alister was one of the things that also didn't make me feel isolated:rolleyes: It was Crystal Dynamics first try - I don't blame them. But now they have the chance for Anniversary. AT LEAST JUST for Anniversary. They can do that for their sequels but for the sake of remake..and since CORE lost their job for their almost complete version of Anniversary:(

If you still don't get it, try playing Tomb Raider I again from the beginnign or just one level:D Or try, like I said above before, playing Legend without the music (http://www.tombraiderforums.com/showthread.php?t=79000)...try staying in one spot and just listen all around you..Bolvia is probably one of the best examples..or West Africa..

Treeble
1st Dec 2006, 23:48
I've played all the previous games countless times, yes (except for TR3 and AOD, which I only played through twice). :) In fact, just last year I've played and finished TR1 in those XTHC challenges, after having played the 'normal' way zillions of times since '98. Thing is, with WXP is kinda annoying to play, and after having experienced Legend and it's fluid controls, I struggle to play the old games and not be bored. I liked them, back then.

I have played Legend without voices, but it felt so off I turned everything back on when I started Peru. And in one odd ocasion, Nepal didn't load the songs when I reloaded the upteenth time after doing death-defying runs (which I kept dying on, that's fact), and if anything, it took away from the game.

Legend is one of the rare cases where everything comes along together nicely, if you take off something, you have a gap there instead - it just doesn't feel complete. :)

Joshorty
2nd Dec 2006, 00:00
Well I guess that just shows (even at some point, I find it that way too..and I get what you mean) stands its own for having all its "default" elements there. But for the first Tomb Raider...it just doesn't seem so:confused:

Treeble
2nd Dec 2006, 00:15
I guess it's because we've played it so many times and we have such strong and fond memories of it, we might not see past its 'flaws', but that's definitely not the appropriate word. We're just used to it and fear it might get crushed if even the slightest is changed. As the Oracle said - "Change isn't easy. It never is."

Though we've gotta analyse both sides of the coin - sometimes, it changes for the better. ;)

Joshorty
2nd Dec 2006, 00:22
That's why I think they should do this only for the Anniversary:D They can of course, continue with their elements in their Legend sequels - that I don't mind. But as for the Anniversary - at least they should keep the original:D (of course, some things are changed) but the ones that really kept Tomb Raider TOMB RAIDER, they should go along with what made it TOMB RAIDER. This isn't Legend...but the controls are adapted - kinda happy for that;)

shirl123
2nd Dec 2006, 00:28
But for the first Tomb Raider...it just doesn't seem so:confused:

yep. one of the things that made TR1 so special at the time was it's unique atmosphere. I'm not sure that "isolation" is the right word to describe it...
(edited: TR1's atmosphere AND it's classic moments. like I said before, constand music will make *them* less dominant...and also itself)

sure, the constant music fits Legend perfectly (don't get me wrong, I LOVE this game!), but that's because Legend is probably the most "colorful/lighten-up" game in the series... so the constant music adds more colors to it.
unlike Legend, all the other games were a bit dark and somewhat-mysterious (yes, even the great TR3, which is colorful, but much darker then Legend)...so I don't think that constand music fits in THEIR case. it takes the darkness away, IMO. ;)

anyway, the reason why I don't want the constant music ANYMORE is because I prefer the "darker" atmosphere ;) it makes me feel the environment, something that I didn't have with TRL.

Joshorty
2nd Dec 2006, 00:34
THANK YOU:D that's what I've been tryin' to say:)

Alexlovesguns
2nd Dec 2006, 02:03
Legend has decent music but it was in my opinion overdone, i much prefered how the music was setup in early TR's (TR3), it was simple, nice and came up at the proper times (Who can say they didnt like the traditional TR scores?). When you reached somewhere, when you faced and overcome a tricky area or situation, etc. At times it even felt like small rewards and motivated me to go further.. in Legend the music is just there all the time, i would rather have higher quality environmental sound FX (imersion) and much better weapon sounds..

About the constant dialogs and chatting... anoyances really. Alone is the temple/tomb ruins always felt better, trapped, scared, curious, lost? Few dialogs are like rewards after being alone exploring for a while, constant yapping is too ordinary soap opera alike... i prefer the lonely adventurer style.

The way i like it: After going thru mazes and tunnels full of traps, tricky platforms and enemies you finally reach the impressive main chamber... in the center lies your most wanted artifact, a beautyfull scene with beautyfull music rewards your effort, it was all worth it :) .

Thats what it was all about to me... i want it back.

Dragu Slave
2nd Dec 2006, 11:49
No Musics pls. Just a couple of creepy noises here and there, like in TR1.

Terminatorvs
2nd Dec 2006, 16:57
Just don't go around "why was there no music and dialogues at all, it felt so hollow", if CDs will ever listen to you and make a mute game.

Dragu Slave
2nd Dec 2006, 17:20
Just don't go around "why was there no music and dialogues at all, it felt so hollow", if CDs will ever listen to you and make a mute game.

I'd rather the old "mute" soundtrack than techno music that kills the atmosphere during combat.

shirl123
2nd Dec 2006, 20:05
Just don't go around "why was there no music and dialogues at all, it felt so hollow", if CDs will ever listen to you and make a mute game.

I'm sure some people will come up with it, this community already has a bad name of "moaners". (http://forums.longestjourney.com/showpost.php?p=42113&postcount=17) (I'm not sure on which forums the first one was talking about, but either way - we're having the same thing here) :-/
but...hmmm...this request seems a bit deeper then the usual ones, IMO. the atmosphere has a large effect on the game-play.

I personally don't have a problem with the "lighten-up" atmosphere, I'm not complaining or anything (IMO, they did a superb job with almost everything on Legend, even the atmosphere), but I prefer the "dark" one that we had on the previous games. I'll be cool with everything, as long as it fits the game(s) ;)

StarChampagne
2nd Dec 2006, 20:17
Proud to be a moaner :rasp: If we sat here all day spouting nothing but praise for the game, it would probably get tiresome pretty quick (maybe not for the designers), but then again, excessive moaning is also tiresome... oh well :)

Back on topic: music... hmm. I mostly loved the constant music in Legend, and especially in Aod. But I agree with Alexlovesguns - less music makes it more special. And atmospheric/lonely etc. So, I would quite like no constant music :)

shirl123
2nd Dec 2006, 21:02
but then again, excessive moaning is also tiresome... oh well :)

that's what I'm talking about (...and these people).
criticizing can be a good thing, realizing the game's flaws and helping us figure out what we really want. but as for over-moaning, well, it takes the over-moaner's creditability away.

I guess most of us agree about the music for the exact same reasons? :p

Joshorty
3rd Dec 2006, 02:52
In a way I guess:DFor those who first played Legend as a Tomb Raider title might find this thread disproving..
*I really hope people don't take this thread topic the wrong way here...*

LaraGirl216
3rd Dec 2006, 14:17
I think the music gives it good atmosphere. Though if you remember the music in TR1 and TR2 (I think) there was that very scary music that just freaked me out. It is on the first level of TR1 (in Peru) and when you are near the end you go through a door with 2 wolves trying to bite your head off,-THAT music. :eek: :eek: :eek:

nunoqueiroz
14th Dec 2006, 22:30
if somebody whants a tomb Raider game to make fear, please go play Resident Evil, dom3 or something like this.... because tomb Raider is not a terror game...

I think that the music of TRlegend is great * * * * * (five stars)...
And in mi opinion the music for TRA it will be the teme like the 1sft game of TR but like, with the same base of Legend

the game,(TRA) its the TR1 but with new grafic motor, and new grafics, like Legend.... and with the sound it will proceed to the same way...
the old theme, TR1 Teme but with the same efects, the same quality and same gener of Legend.....

And YES I VOTE TO CONSTANT MUSIC for all reasons.... they make more interestant the game

Joshorty
14th Dec 2006, 22:44
Aiye it's not suppose to be a horror/terror game but the "whatever you guys want to call it" factor from Tomb Raider one wasn't there in Legend and should be brought back 0 gladly some magazine articles confirmed that kind of isolation feeling back:D

Terminatorvs
15th Dec 2006, 07:32
if somebody whants a tomb Raider game to make fear, please go play Resident Evil, dom3 or something like this.... because tomb Raider is not a terror game...


Like I said a zillion times already - TRs are not scary. :mad2: TRs are not of the horror genre. You don't feel like quitting the game and not daring to play it for a time period (that's what I felt). F. E. A. R., Silent Hill - these are horror games. TR. Is. Not.

Joshorty
15th Dec 2006, 08:41
Like I said a zillion times already - TRs are not scary. :mad2: TRs are not of the horror genre. You don't feel like quitting the game and not daring to play it for a time period (that's what I felt). F. E. A. R., Silent Hill - these are horror games. TR. Is. Not.
Actually now that you put it that way, that's the "factor" I was trying to express...I've experienced or "felt" that way in TOMB RAIDER. But I wouldn't stop playing the game for a while - I'd still continue to play and play - this is one of the element or factor that made the game exciting:D

Terminatorvs
15th Dec 2006, 13:55
I've never left TR for that reason. But once, when I was playing Silent Hill: The Room, I actually stopped playing for about a week, because I was scared, yes - scared to face the ghosts in Townshand's appartment.

Joshorty
16th Dec 2006, 00:42
Ugh...although that game was completely different from the other Silent Hills, it was still pretty creepy...

gamerofhell
16th Dec 2006, 09:25
The background music's awesome! This thread SUCKS!!

you 2

ahimsa
23rd Jan 2007, 10:35
According to Game Spot there will be music in the new game for those of you that like the music. I prefer no music, but it doesn't matter to me if there is music or not, I can always shut off the music.

"The audio in the game takes some getting used to, as one of the key elements of the original game was its solo vibe. As Lara Croft you faced off against the world and often found yourself playing in an oppressive silence, save for a modest assortment of sound effects and occasional pieces of music that would come in during key moments. While Crystal D is attempting to offer those kinds of moments in the experience, it's balancing that with modern expectations, so you can plan on hearing a musical score pop up throughout the adventure. How frequently it will be used is still being sorted out, but it's safe to assume the game won't be as quiet as the original."

ditom
23rd Jan 2007, 14:12
I disagree. Music makes atmosphere in games.
In TRL (for me) music was almost the most important part of game.

floydthebarber
23rd Jan 2007, 14:32
In the original game and at least #2 on the pc, music was not constant. Ambient sounds were the rule, with occasional music at precise moments. I never played a console (for any game) so all I know is this format. I would obviously prefer more environmental sounds, but some music at key moments, like I experienced in the original.

shirl123
23rd Jan 2007, 17:29
I disagree. Music makes atmosphere in games.
In TRL (for me) music was almost the most important part of game.

hey, hey! give the ambient sounds some credit! :rasp: they also make an atmosphere, but a diffrent kind of it.

CatSuit&Ponytail
23rd Jan 2007, 18:41
I agree Shirl, the sounds of the environment can be awe inspiring. The background reels of the early games were amazing, then the added punctuation of music in certain spot for dramatic effect was right on the ball. :) :thumbsup:

Constant recognizable music is not nearly as effective for my ears. I often end up turning it off if it becomes an irritant.

Raider0011
23rd Jan 2007, 20:50
I for one liked the music in Legend. I thought it was different and created a nice atmosphere (It's not like we were listening to heavy metal or anything :rolleyes: ).

Just my 2 cents (or best offer) :D