PDA

View Full Version : Use of bows in Nosgoth



Pootrocks
8th Oct 2013, 01:22
As I have made it my task to play through all of the Legacy of Kain games upon hearing the announcement of this game, many of them for the first time, I noticed something peculiar. As far as I am aware, there are no enemies in any of the games that use a bow, not counting crossbows of course. Why then, would the scout class be the only fighters in Nosgoth's history to use a bow rather than a crossbow or a throwing knife for a ranged weapon. In the lore section, it claims that scouts are used to hit and run tactics, but this seems like it would be difficult to do with a bow. A bow must be strung, reloaded after every shot and is quite cumbersome to carry. This does not lend itself to mobility in the same way that a crossbow does. I eagerly await anyone that can provide a good rational for the introduction of this previously unheard of weapon.

ZeroFernir
8th Oct 2013, 01:34
As I have made it my task to play through all of the Legacy of Kain games upon hearing the announcement of this game, many of them for the first time, I noticed something peculiar. As far as I am aware, there are no enemies in any of the games that use a bow, not counting crossbows of course. Why then, would the scout class be the only fighters in Nosgoth's history to use a bow rather than a crossbow or a throwing knife for a ranged weapon. In the lore section, it claims that scouts are used to hit and run tactics, but this seems like it would be difficult to do with a bow. A bow must be strung, reloaded after every shot and is quite cumbersome to carry. This does not lend itself to mobility in the same way that a crossbow does. I eagerly await anyone that can provide a good rational for the introduction of this previously unheard of weapon.

The only one I can remember now was from defiance... A lot of Kain's enemies used bows... The sarafans aparrently like that ranged weapon =P But in fact I would like to see a class throwing knives too =P

LordNekronom
8th Oct 2013, 01:53
The only one I can remember now was from defiance... A lot of Kain's enemies used bows... The sarafans aparrently like that ranged weapon =P But in fact I would like to see a class throwing knives too =P

You may very well see customizations with knives and crossbows to replace certain special/charged/sneak/ambush attacks with the bow.

ZeroFernir
8th Oct 2013, 01:57
You may very well see customizations with knives and crossbows to replace certain special/charged/sneak/ambush attacks with the bow.

That would be SOOOOO COOOL! =P

Psyonix_Eric
8th Oct 2013, 05:36
But in fact I would like to see a class throwing knives too =P
You're in luck then. ;)

Vampmaster
8th Oct 2013, 07:37
That would be SOOOOO COOOL! =P

I think it was the scout who had a multi knife throw attack. It didn't do much damage, but it worked at close range and had a wide spread. There was also a move that caused lots of arrows to rain down from above. You launched them into the air and they did massive radial damage on the way down.

ZeroFernir
8th Oct 2013, 12:00
You're in luck then. ;)

Woah, That's nice to hear =D


I think it was the scout who had a multi knife throw attack. It didn't do much damage, but it worked at close range and had a wide spread. There was also a move that caused lots of arrows to rain down from above. You launched them into the air and they did massive radial damage on the way down.

Oops, changed my favourite human class =P

Wraithblade6
8th Oct 2013, 15:05
Bows happen.

Anacrothe
8th Oct 2013, 15:16
You're in luck then. ;)

I think I love you...

ZeroFernir
8th Oct 2013, 15:35
I think I love you...

kkkkkkkk, lol? xD

Psyonix_Eric
8th Oct 2013, 18:22
I think I love you...
:friends:
As Vampmaster explained, the Scout class does in fact have a throwing knife skill where three knives are thrown at the enemy. It's a really fast skill and while it isn't designed as a main attack (his long bow takes care of that) it is something that I've seen take down low-health vampires before. It's always awesome to see a Sentinel flying at you and to lodge a few blades into his skull and watch him ragdoll out of the sky. ;)

Vampmaster
8th Oct 2013, 18:29
:friends:
As Vampmaster explained, the Scout class does in fact have a throwing knife skill where three knives are thrown at the enemy. It's a really fast skill and while it isn't designed as a main attack (his long bow takes care of that) it is something that I've seen take down low-health vampires before. It's always awesome to see a Sentinel flying at you and to lodge a few blades into his skull and watch him ragdoll out of the sky. ;)

Hi, Eric. I'm trying not to drag any threads off topic, but did you get to look at my PM about the Razielim yet?

ZeroFernir
8th Oct 2013, 18:32
:friends:
As Vampmaster explained, the Scout class does in fact have a throwing knife skill where three knives are thrown at the enemy. It's a really fast skill and while it isn't designed as a main attack (his long bow takes care of that) it is something that I've seen take down low-health vampires before. It's always awesome to see a Sentinel flying at you and to lodge a few blades into his skull and watch him ragdoll out of the sky. ;)

But there won't be a class that the main ability is to throw knives?

Plus, are you obligated to say "Tyrant", "Reaver" and "Sentinel"? all the users aparently are saying Turelim, Dumahim and Razielim. and actually that feels strange to see it other way.

Psyonix_Eric
8th Oct 2013, 18:37
But there won't be a class that the main ability is to throw knives?

Plus, are you obligated to say "Tyrant", "Reaver" and "Sentinel"? all the users aparently are saying Turelim, Dumahim and Razielim. and actually that feels strange to see it other way.
Not obligated at all, but those are the class names and also how they appear in the game. We certainly recognize them by their clan names but not in game anywhere that they're called out (that meaning that there are no buttons that say "Turelim" but there are plenty that say "Tyrant").

No, no classes currently that have throwing knives as a main skill.

ZeroFernir
8th Oct 2013, 18:41
Not obligated at all, but those are the class names and also how they appear in the game. We certainly recognize them by their clan names but not in game anywhere that they're called out (that meaning that there are no buttons that say "Turelim" but there are plenty that say "Tyrant").

No, no classes currently that have throwing knives as a main skill.

Well, why not to trade it, then? I think it would be an invite for new fans to know the lore, and it would please the fanbase at most.

Psyonix_Eric
8th Oct 2013, 18:48
Well, why not to trade it, then? I think it would be an invite for new fans to know the lore, and it would please the fanbase at most.
The lore is still there. Their clan names are still present in the game, they're just not the main way of referencing the class. That's why we have it separated as class vs. clan - the lore is still present for our players that are interested in seeing how we're expanding/carrying-on the world but it's not so in your face as to scare away new players that we're hoping to get interested into the LoK universe. It is a fine balance that we're keeping an eye on.

ZeroFernir
8th Oct 2013, 19:03
The lore is still there. Their clan names are still present in the game, they're just not the main way of referencing the class. That's why we have it separated as class vs. clan - the lore is still present for our players that are interested in seeing how we're expanding/carrying-on the world but it's not so in your face as to scare away new players that we're hoping to get interested into the LoK universe. It is a fine balance that we're keeping an eye on.

I hope it works =P Anyway, I think it would be rather simple to put an option to see the clan names in the game, right? So it comes by defaut as class names, but I would be glad to change it on so I see clan's everywhere =P

Vampmaster
8th Oct 2013, 20:04
@Eric -I can see how the class names might make it easier for those unfamiliar with LOK to figure out their skill sets. It's good that you're making it friendly to newcomers to the series, but it's important that it remains recognisable to us long time fans as well. Hence all the threads about the vampire's appearance.

ZeroFernir
8th Oct 2013, 21:23
@Eric -I can see how the class names might make it easier for those unfamiliar with LOK to figure out their skill sets. It's good that you're making it friendly to newcomers to the series, but it's important that it remains recognisable to us long time fans as well. Hence all the threads about the vampire's appearance.

I actually think that it would not be hard to the newcomers to see that the brute ogre is the tyrant =P Anyway, I think it should not be difficult to have the option of having the Clan's name to exchange for the class ones, would it?

ZeroFernir
9th Oct 2013, 00:41
Oh, neat! Ninja skillz ftw, yo! Hey, the've had ships in LoK, can we get a Pirate Class, too? Everyone loves Ninjas and Pirates. Oh, and Zombies, too, (you know, to balance out the Monster side). And maybe the Humans can develop a Dwarf gyrocopter, so the Humans can counter the Razielum.

Sarcasm? I could smell it from here.

ExterasMors
9th Oct 2013, 02:34
You're in luck then. ;)
That just enlightened everyones day

ZeroFernir
9th Oct 2013, 11:44
That just enlightened everyones day

But I still wans a class whose major attack is trowing knives. That would be absolutely cool =P

MasterShuriko
9th Oct 2013, 11:46
I´m liking this thread more and more =D

ZeroFernir
9th Oct 2013, 11:49
I´m liking this thread more and more =D

xD it was kinda silly in the beggining, right? xD

Well, we have 3 human classes already, and the vampires will be 6 (hopefully). Tell your ideas for the humans!
1- A throwing knife class
2- a pure mage/druid class (someone asked for a necromancer, I think)
3- ???

MasterShuriko
9th Oct 2013, 12:03
xD it was kinda silly in the beggining, right? xD

Well, we have 3 human classes already, and the vampires will be 6 (hopefully). Tell your ideas for the humans!
1- A throwing knife class
2- a pure mage/druid class (someone asked for a necromancer, I think)
3- ???

It was a fun read =D
Human classes lets see.

At the moment we have a "tank(knight) a ranged (archer) and a gunner (the one with the flamethrower)
Another class was the Necromancer as people have talked about in diff topics as you said =)
Would a "trapper" be suitable ?
A light and agile human that places traps of various kinds?
Hmm I was thinking about a knife/ sneaky class but then again I think thats coming on either side in some variation.
Im thinking a Halberd-equipped class for the humans.

And now I´m out of ideas =s

ZeroFernir
9th Oct 2013, 12:36
It was a fun read =D
Human classes lets see.

At the moment we have a "tank(knight) a ranged (archer) and a gunner (the one with the flamethrower)
Another class was the Necromancer as people have talked about in diff topics as you said =)
Would a "trapper" be suitable ?
A light and agile human that places traps of various kinds?
Hmm I was thinking about a knife/ sneaky class but then again I think thats coming on either side in some variation.
Im thinking a Halberd-equipped class for the humans.

And now I´m out of ideas =s

Halbeard would be a melee... and the trapper could be the one throwing knives =P

MasterShuriko
9th Oct 2013, 13:03
Halbeard would be a melee... and the trapper could be the one throwing knives =P

A sniper could be a nice mix =)

ZeroFernir
9th Oct 2013, 13:03
A sniper could be a nice mix =)

The sniper is actually the scout, I think...

Pootrocks
9th Oct 2013, 17:00
xD it was kinda silly in the beggining, right? xD

I did intend for it to be a little silly. I am glad that at least someone is using knives in Nosgoth as knife throwing enemies are kind of a common occurence in LoK. I still would like to see someone that uses knives as a primary attack, but I guess we make due with what we have.

ZeroFernir
9th Oct 2013, 17:06
I did intend for it to be a little silly. I am glad that at least someone is using knives in Nosgoth as knife throwing enemies are kind of a common occurence in LoK. I still would like to see someone that uses knives as a primary attack, but I guess we make due with what we have.

In fact, they occur since BO1...
And we share the vision, though. I want to play as a knife-thrower too, but the bow is actually a common weapon in LoK too.

Vampmaster
9th Oct 2013, 17:16
So, is it pretty much confirmed to be one main weapon per class and not even changing between matches or respawns?

ZeroFernir
9th Oct 2013, 17:20
So, is it pretty much confirmed to be one main weapon per class and not even changing between matches or respawns?

I think the main weapon is to be the same for a class, but you can change classes between respawns.

Psyonix_Eric
9th Oct 2013, 17:56
So, is it pretty much confirmed to be one main weapon per class and not even changing between matches or respawns?
There's one main weapon for each class but there are some variants to them. For example, for the Alchemist her default weapon is a hand cannon but she currently has three flavors of it - one that shoots a single shot that bounces off things and explodes, one shot that shoots multiple projectiles at once, one that shoots a bomb that sticks to vampires and then explodes. You can choose them before ever going into a game, or once you first load into a match, and then again when you die you have the option to change class/loadouts.

ZeroFernir
9th Oct 2013, 18:02
There's one main weapon for each class but there are some variants to them. For example, for the Alchemist her default weapon is a hand cannon but she currently has three flavors of it - one that shoots a single shot that bounces off things and explodes, one shot that shoots multiple projectiles at once, one that shoots a bomb that sticks to vampires and then explodes. You can choose them before ever going into a game, or once you first load into a match, and then again when you die you have the option to change class/loadouts.

Vampires will have that option too? =O

Psyonix_Eric
9th Oct 2013, 18:16
Vampires will have that option too? =O
Yes. Vampire's main weapon is obviously their melee attack but each class has different subskills. There is a primary skill that each has that you're able to change out as well. An example for vampires would be the Tyrant class - he has the skill you see in the trailer where he leaps incredibly high and slams down, he has a skill where you charge and knock back humans and do damage to them, and a variant of that where you can charge further and can use it either as an escape skill or to really take down more humans.

Vallass
9th Oct 2013, 18:20
Would a "trapper" be suitable ?
A light and agile human that places traps of various kinds?

I think a trapper would be a great idea, someone else said he could be the knife wielder as well. These would both be cool ideas. His ranged attack isn't very powerful, but his traps would be something awesome. Some giant bear-like traps, or some explosive based traps. Even some water traps would be pretty cool, actually I think that'd be my favorite trap.

MasterShuriko
9th Oct 2013, 18:20
Yes. Vampire's main weapon is obviously their melee attack but each class has different subskills. There is a primary skill that each has that you're able to change out as well. An example for vampires would be the Tyrant class - he has the skill you see in the trailer where he leaps incredibly high and slams down, he has a skill where you charge and knock back humans and do damage to them, and a variant of that where you can charge further and can use it either as an escape skill or to really take down more humans.

Called it!
So its as I suspected with the Razielim that the flight is a cooldown and that they can only take flight a certain amount of seconds and within thoose seconds use an ability / abilities depening on how you build them?

Psyonix_Eric
9th Oct 2013, 18:45
Called it!
So its as I suspected with the Razielim that the flight is a cooldown and that they can only take flight a certain amount of seconds and within thoose seconds use an ability / abilities depening on how you build them?
Currently the Sentinels can fly an unlimited amount of time (subject to change, of course). You have to be on top of a building and then fall off of it in order to fly but there's no cooldown on this. You can fly, hit a building, climb up the building, then fall off the other side and fly again. There are certain air abilities that you can use and those are the ones that have cooldowns.

It's quite intimidating to see a couple of Sentinels looping around in the sky like vultures, hehe.

ZeroFernir
9th Oct 2013, 18:45
Yes. Vampire's main weapon is obviously their melee attack but each class has different subskills. There is a primary skill that each has that you're able to change out as well. An example for vampires would be the Tyrant class - he has the skill you see in the trailer where he leaps incredibly high and slams down, he has a skill where you charge and knock back humans and do damage to them, and a variant of that where you can charge further and can use it either as an escape skill or to really take down more humans.

But will it count for that 3 abilities that SE guys talked about in Q&A?


I think a trapper would be a great idea, someone else said he could be the knife wielder as well. These would both be cool ideas. His ranged attack isn't very powerful, but his traps would be something awesome. Some giant bear-like traps, or some explosive based traps. Even some water traps would be pretty cool, actually I think that'd be my favorite trap.

The main attack would not be very effective, but would be really fast.


Called it!
So its as I suspected with the Razielim that the flight is a cooldown and that they can only take flight a certain amount of seconds and within thoose seconds use an ability / abilities depening on how you build them?

Nope. You can spend the hole game flying, if you want to. But that skills we see in the trailer (the ground-sky jump and the "comet"-like attack) will have the cooldown.

MasterShuriko
9th Oct 2013, 18:57
Currently the Sentinels can fly an unlimited amount of time (subject to change, of course). You have to be on top of a building and then fall off of it in order to fly but there's no cooldown on this. You can fly, hit a building, climb up the building, then fall off the other side and fly again. There are certain air abilities that you can use and those are the ones that have cooldowns.

It's quite intimidating to see a couple of Sentinels looping around in the sky like vultures, hehe.

One word: SWEEET!



Nope. You can spend the hole gamy flying, if you want to. But that skills we see in the trailer (the ground-sky jump and the "comet"-like attack) will have the cooldown.

Have I missed abit of info somewhere or are you actually in alpha already !:eek:
Envious with *puppy eyes*

ZeroFernir
9th Oct 2013, 19:00
Have I missed abit of info somewhere or are you actually in alpha already !:eek:
Envious with *puppy eyes*

I wish! Alpha haven't started yet. However, Community's day gave us a lot of information about the game, and the staff answers you almost anything you PM them.

MasterShuriko
9th Oct 2013, 19:06
I wish! Alpha haven't started yet. However, Community's day gave us a lot of information about the game, and the staff answers you almost anything you PM them.

Oh I didnt know that, I was away on vacation when the Q&A day took place.
Just watched the livestream today (recorded)
Hmm to Pm or not to Pm? That is the question.

ZeroFernir
9th Oct 2013, 19:08
Oh I didnt know that, I was away on vacation when the Q&A day took place.
Just watched the livestream today (recorded)
Hmm to Pm or not to Pm? That is the question.

Feel free to PM... They are there for that =P

RemovedQuasar
11th Oct 2013, 15:10
What about a melee class even for human? Sort of versatile class, with swords and shileds.

Of course, nothing noble as the Sarafan, as you said: there are not goods and evils on Nosgoth.

Sometingh like the Mobius Mercenary Army: http://legacyofkain.wikia.com/wiki/Moebius%27s_mercenary_army

ZeroFernir
11th Oct 2013, 15:30
What about a melee class even for human? Sort of versatile class, with swords and shileds.

Of course, nothing noble as the Sarafan, as you said: there are not goods and evils on Nosgoth.

Sometingh like the Mobius Mercenary Army: http://legacyofkain.wikia.com/wiki/Moebius%27s_mercenary_army

The whole idea of the game is melee x ranged. That would break what makes this game different of the others.

RemovedQuasar
11th Oct 2013, 15:43
Ok sorry, didn't know that.

(//is better that i stop give suggestions .-.)

ZeroFernir
11th Oct 2013, 15:51
Ok sorry, didn't know that.

(//is better that i stop give suggestions .-.)

No way, suggestions are good. Just keep in mind that Humans should be ranged.
For human classes, we had this ideas already:
A trap-maker, throwing knifes class
A mage (druid/necromancer)

RemovedQuasar
11th Oct 2013, 16:30
Ah, the druids are a good idea! After all, if there are the Sisters of Anacrothe, why why should not there be the followers of Bane the Druid? :D

ZeroFernir
11th Oct 2013, 16:57
Ah, the druids are a good idea! After all, if there are the Sisters of Anacrothe, why why should not there be the followers of Bane the Druid? :D

I think that it shouldn't have THAT much connection to previous lore. It would feel strange, everyone in nosgoth related to a big celebrity =P

Vampmaster
11th Oct 2013, 17:20
I think that it shouldn't have THAT much connection to previous lore. It would feel strange, everyone in nosgoth related to a big celebrity =P

Druid, Necromancer, etc are just skills/professions. They can exist without the need for a 2 millenia old patriarch and they're different enough to not be lumped into the same JRPG archetype.

ZeroFernir
11th Oct 2013, 22:04
Druid, Necromancer, etc are just skills/professions. They can exist without the need for a 2 millenia old patriarch and they're different enough to not be lumped into the same JRPG archetype.

I know, but the idea of the guy who I was answering to was to link everyone...

Umbralim
11th Oct 2013, 23:01
I know, but the idea of the guy who I was answering to was to link everyone...

not all the classes need a direct character connection, but a vague association would be nice, LoK has always been good at being subtle about that like Avernus in SE2 connection to Azimuth, and Nupraptors Retreat in SE1 and of course that random statue of moebius in the Eternal prison.

also did anyone else notice the iron guards (the knight class) symbol looks very similar to the flag on the citadel in SE1

and while I don't think all the guardians should be represented in class form but I would like to see more with The dark Eden triad since they're the only guardians that haven't gotten any further connection to other games.