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Tube_Reaver
6th Oct 2013, 15:51
Hello all,

Thinking of other multiplayer games I have been playing recently (Warframe, LoL, ME3)
One aspect that definitely helps keep the game entertaining and gives you something to strive for is the levelling aspect

example:
In ME3, you level up each character, and get points to spend to enhance their abilities in some way or another, this made you want to level up the character ASAP to try out a certain build, and if you didn't like it you could respec or promote and re-level, which added replay value

Another thing is for instance in LoL you get the whole summoner levelling scheme, which then gives you mastery points to spend in the 'mastery tree' (similar to a talent tree) to enhance a specific play-style you want to go for.

I think some of the best aspects of LoL are the mastery trees and the rune pages, because they add more dynamisc (aside from just items) for players to try out slightly or vastly different play-styles with the same champions

i.e. tanky DPS, full damage, full tank etc) which gives enhances the 'replay value' of many many of the game's champions, and the re-play value of the overall game itself.

So what are your thoughts on such systems being put in Nosgoth? Do you have any of your own ideas? If so please share.

Cheers

TL;DR - Levelling system and talent trees add replay value to each character by allowing us to try out different play-styles that suit us, which is always a good thing as players love choices, and therefore resulting in the overall game being more fun and re-playable.

AlterRequiem
6th Oct 2013, 19:24
lol. People need to realize this isn't really a MOBA. It's more like Left 4 Dead mutiplayer with set classes and weapons on human side.

Tube_Reaver
6th Oct 2013, 20:38
lol. People need to realize this isn't really a MOBA. It's more like Left 4 Dead mutiplayer with set classes and weapons on human side.

Not saying it is a MOBA. I am just giving out a suggestion that adds to the game's variety, as opposed to playing 'X' Character and use 'Y' weapon/attack every match.

BenPupko
6th Oct 2013, 22:04
I find my self getting really confused from the first time seeing a tech tree in a game. Would be better if there was just items that you could add buffs to. OR as you level up, you can unlock more abilities that replace others which give you advantages in one thing, but reduce it in others. Getting off topic a bit. Sorry... Its just overwhelming for some people to see a giant tech tree to upgrade for the first time. Oh and also if you have enough "in game currency" to buy something, It would be good to try it out in a offline map or just a blank area with a dummy or something. I found my self to quit a few games because of buying a highly priced item in the game and finding out it wasn't what I was expecting brought me down and I don't play it as often as i did. Just a few things that i poured out of my mind :/

ZeroFernir
6th Oct 2013, 22:25
Well, it IS, actually, a MOBA.

Tallet trees won't work, because they mean that some abilities are better than others,

And Level up sistem is not a likeable idea for the game (the devs doesn't want levels, so it is equal for the newcomers and the oldies).

Psyonix_Corey
6th Oct 2013, 23:03
Would be better if there was just items that you could add buffs to. OR as you level up, you can unlock more abilities that replace others which give you advantages in one thing, but reduce it in others.

This is what we're launching with. It's similar to TF2 in that respect - you can find versions of existing items with +/- modifiers to customize your playstyle.

That said, there's been a lot of feedback from early players asking for something like LoL's "talent" tree - it gives a nice sense of progression without being massively game changing. But I am wary of the confusion BenPupko mentions. We're iterating on ideas to roll out during beta right now, so I will keep tabs on this thread.

ZeroFernir
6th Oct 2013, 23:52
This is what we're launching with. It's similar to TF2 in that respect - you can find versions of existing items with +/- modifiers to customize your playstyle.

That said, there's been a lot of feedback from early players asking for something like LoL's "talent" tree - it gives a nice sense of progression without being massively game changing. But I am wary of the confusion BenPupko mentions. We're iterating on ideas to roll out during beta right now, so I will keep tabs on this thread.

But there won't be any levelling sistem, right?

Tube_Reaver
7th Oct 2013, 11:02
This is what we're launching with. It's similar to TF2 in that respect - you can find versions of existing items with +/- modifiers to customize your playstyle.

That said, there's been a lot of feedback from early players asking for something like LoL's "talent" tree - it gives a nice sense of progression without being massively game changing. But I am wary of the confusion BenPupko mentions. We're iterating on ideas to roll out during beta right now, so I will keep tabs on this thread.

Hi, you clarified it better than I could, especially the highlighted part. That sense of progression really helps a game's longevity, especially for newcomers as it let's them have a goal to achieve of sorts.

As for the versions of items, that is a great idea! :)
I am all for +/- modifiers, whether they be variations of the same items, weapons, abilities or even from talent trees.
Anything that adds variety to the gameplay, no matter how minor (+0.5% damage) is a positive imo
Variety is the spice of life

Cheers for all the opinions and feedback so far

ZeroFernir
7th Oct 2013, 12:33
Hi, you clarified it better than I could, especially the highlighted part. That sense of progression really helps a game's longevity, especially for newcomers as it let's them have a goal to achieve of sorts.

As for the versions of items, that is a great idea! :)
I am all for +/- modifiers, whether they be variations of the same items, weapons, abilities or even from talent trees.
Anything that adds variety to the gameplay, no matter how minor (+0.5% damage) is a positive imo
Variety is the spice of life

Cheers for all the opinions and feedback so far

But I think there will be little items that actually impact on the game... because the idea is not to let it become pay to win (so no cash items that make difference) and letting it be equal to newcomers and oldies (so no experience OP items)...

LordNekronom
7th Oct 2013, 13:13
But I think there will be little items that actually impact on the game... because the idea is not to let it become pay to win (so no cash items that make difference) and letting it be equal to newcomers and oldies (so no experience OP items)...

The devs did say it won't be pay to win, so expect cash items/customizations to be for a really awesome aesthetic feel only, as in leave a green trail of energy when you dive as a Razielim with a certain pair of wings or armor, or make it look like you telekineticaly drain the blood out of your enemies like Kain when you kill them.

ZeroFernir
7th Oct 2013, 13:18
The devs did say it won't be pay to win, so expect cash items/customizations to be for a really awesome aesthetic feel only, as in leave a green trail of energy when you dive as a Razielim with a certain pair of wings or armor, or make it look like you telekineticaly drain the blood out of your enemies like Kain when you kill them.

That would be really cool *-* xD but I think it will have even less effect, aesthetically. I actually will buy a lot of things like that, I will probably "buy" the game, by spending a real game value on the skins and items =D

Tube_Reaver
7th Oct 2013, 16:13
That would be really cool *-* xD but I think it will have even less effect, aesthetically. I actually will buy a lot of things like that, I will probably "buy" the game, by spending a real game value on the skins and items =D

-looks at the in-game stuff he has for LoL, swtor and other games- ... I think I will easily end up spending more than double a retail value of a game XD

I can't wait to see what the aesthetic items/skins will be :)

But I hope they don't go to the TF2 style of having to buy boxes containing random goodies, of which will contain aesthetic items with +/- modifiers. In fact I hope that all items that you have to pay for are merely aesthetic with NO modifiers.

Keep the modifiers to stuff you can get in game using points or some such system

Vallass
7th Oct 2013, 16:49
Actually, they did say it won't be pay to win. Specifically, they said "We made the decision to go to free-to-play to break down barriers and let as many players into the game as possible. One of the key goals has been to create a fair experience that doesn’t penalise players who don’t spend money in the game, as such Nosgoth doesn’t include items, weapons or abilities that are inherently better (aka supremacy goods)." So no paying for weapons/abilities. I'm sure they'll find a way to get money, but it won't be through making it a pay-to-win game.

Vampmaster
7th Oct 2013, 16:55
There might be downloadable abilities, but they said there will always be a trade-off so they don't make you more powerful. I believe the example was that you have to give up auto-targeting for the pounce move if you want it to do more damage etc. They didn't specify whether that would be purchasable or unlocked, but as long as they're keeping in balanced in that way I don't mind too much.

I would hope there's a good selection of abilities to start with though.

ZeroFernir
7th Oct 2013, 19:16
There might be downloadable abilities, but they said there will always be a trade-off so they don't make you more powerful. I believe the example was that you have to give up auto-targeting for the pounce move if you want it to do more damage etc. They didn't specify whether that would be purchasable or unlocked, but as long as they're keeping in balanced in that way I don't mind too much.

I would hope there's a good selection of abilities to start with though.

I think, based on q&a, that there will be some unlockable and some purchasable.

Psyonix_Corey
8th Oct 2013, 04:53
At least one version of all gameplay relevant items (Weapons, abilities, perks) is always purchasable with Gold (earned by playing) or Runestones ($$$).

Nothing is meant to be an upgrade - they are built to suit different playstyles without being more or less powerful than the base set the class comes with.

The only exceptions to this rule are:
- Cosmetic variations. Character skins, weapons with special FX, etc. Some of these can be bought directly, some have to be discovered in locked chests (sorry Alaethyr!) or very rare drops after competing a full match.
- Rare versions of items with multiple stat modifiers. Because all positive gameplay stats come paired with a negative, they are balanced with the base models available to everyone. You can find random stat items just by playing, but the rarest versions of items can currently only be found in special chests that you must buy a key to unlock. That said, we will experiment with this in beta - we've been discussing the idea of "grab bags" you can purchase for Gold (again, earned by playing) that have a chance to drop Rares, but they will likely be fairly expensive...

It's also worth noting we plan to implement trading between users during Beta. So even if you don't want to buy keys to unlock chests, you can trade other users items you loot after matches for rares if they're so inclined.

Tube_Reaver
8th Oct 2013, 11:10
At least one version of all gameplay relevant items (Weapons, abilities, perks) is always purchasable with Gold (earned by playing) or Runestones ($$$).

Nothing is meant to be an upgrade - they are built to suit different playstyles without being more or less powerful than the base set the class comes with.

The only exceptions to this rule are:
- Cosmetic variations. Character skins, weapons with special FX, etc. Some of these can be bought directly, some have to be discovered in locked chests (sorry Alaethyr!) or very rare drops after competing a full match.
- Rare versions of items with multiple stat modifiers. Because all positive gameplay stats come paired with a negative, they are balanced with the base models available to everyone. You can find random stat items just by playing, but the rarest versions of items can currently only be found in special chests that you must buy a key to unlock. That said, we will experiment with this in beta - we've been discussing the idea of "grab bags" you can purchase for Gold (again, earned by playing) that have a chance to drop Rares, but they will likely be fairly expensive...

It's also worth noting we plan to implement trading between users during Beta. So even if you don't want to buy keys to unlock chests, you can trade other users items you loot after matches for rares if they're so inclined.

Thanks for filling in the details :D

However I would like to provide some initial feedback on what you have mentioned so far. Now I might be only speaking for myself here, but I hate the idea of having to buy a key to unlock chest and get random loot.

I know it's what TF2 does, and even SWTOR does it with their cash shop packs, and frankly I hate it as far as a system goes.
The whole RNG thing itself with the chests from buying keys can be very frustrating and off-putting imo when you end up spending a good amount of money on what amounts to "trying your luck".

Now I am sure people will say "but trading would help with the whole key and chest idea like a trading card game"
but it doesn't help MUCH, I am not playing this with the mind set of TGC.
In the end many players buy keys to get specific items, not to open chests and hope to get something worth any value in order to TRADE for what the specific item they want, especially when you could end up having a hard time finding someone to trade your item with for the one you want.

In Swtor for instance I always end up with buyer's remorse and feeling dissatisfied, and even when I do get a single pack that has an amazing item, it just doesn't make up for the packs that were just garbage.

I personally spend more on games were I know what I want is purchasable for a value. I.e. LoL, Warframe etc

If anything, the whole key and chest idea depends on the price of the keys, because for me personally, the price of the TF2 keys is too much, especially since it's pretty much a gamble. (And this is coming from someone who spends 20 dollars for an aesthetic skin)

If anything let us have two options,
1) to buy a key and unlock a chest and try your luck.
2) Let us pay a fixed amount for these 'rare' items even if it costs a hefty amount more than buying a key would.


Again this may just be my opinion but please do take it into account.

Thanks :)

ZeroFernir
8th Oct 2013, 11:59
Thanks for filling in the details :D

However I would like to provide some initial feedback on what you have mentioned so far. Now I might be only speaking for myself here, but I hate the idea of having to buy a key to unlock chest and get random loot.

I know it's what TF2 does, and even SWTOR does it with their cash shop packs, and frankly I hate it as far as a system goes.
The whole RNG thing itself with the chests from buying keys can be very frustrating and off-putting imo when you end up spending a good amount of money on what amounts to "trying your luck".

Now I am sure people will say "but trading would help with the whole key and chest idea like a trading card game"
but it doesn't help MUCH, I am not playing this with the mind set of TGC.
In the end many players buy keys to get specific items, not to open chests and hope to get something worth any value in order to TRADE for what the specific item they want, especially when you could end up having a hard time finding someone to trade your item with for the one you want.

In Swtor for instance I always end up with buyer's remorse and feeling dissatisfied, and even when I do get a single pack that has an amazing item, it just doesn't make up for the packs that were just garbage.

I personally spend more on games were I know what I want is purchasable for a value. I.e. LoL, Warframe etc

If anything, the whole key and chest idea depends on the price of the keys, because for me personally, the price of the TF2 keys is too much, especially since it's pretty much a gamble. (And this is coming from someone who spends 20 dollars for an aesthetic skin)

If anything let us have two options,
1) to buy a key and unlock a chest and try your luck.
2) Let us pay a fixed amount for these 'rare' items even if it costs a hefty amount more than buying a key would.


Again this may just be my opinion but please do take it into account.

Thanks :)

Now THAT was a good idea. Even though it is a lot more expensive then a key, being sure of what you are buying would be great. I myself will probably put a lot of money in this game (so SE feels motivated to make another LoK) and probably going pro. And I would like a lot if I could buy an item being sure of what I will get. Obviuosly, I will buy the chests and everything, but after I get all that I need.

4nkkah
8th Oct 2013, 14:00
At least one version of all gameplay relevant items (Weapons, abilities, perks) is always purchasable with Gold (earned by playing) or Runestones ($$$).

Nothing is meant to be an upgrade - they are built to suit different playstyles without being more or less powerful than the base set the class comes with.

The only exceptions to this rule are:
- Cosmetic variations. Character skins, weapons with special FX, etc. Some of these can be bought directly, some have to be discovered in locked chests (sorry Alaethyr!) or very rare drops after competing a full match.
- Rare versions of items with multiple stat modifiers. Because all positive gameplay stats come paired with a negative, they are balanced with the base models available to everyone. You can find random stat items just by playing, but the rarest versions of items can currently only be found in special chests that you must buy a key to unlock. That said, we will experiment with this in beta - we've been discussing the idea of "grab bags" you can purchase for Gold (again, earned by playing) that have a chance to drop Rares, but they will likely be fairly expensive...

It's also worth noting we plan to implement trading between users during Beta. So even if you don't want to buy keys to unlock chests, you can trade other users items you loot after matches for rares if they're so inclined.

Okay, this is a good start for a f2p game, a good start. Unlike Alaethyr, I personally don't have much against these.

But allow me as a somewhat experienced f2p gamer (oh god) present you another alternative to the chests/bags.
This is how a game called A.V.A. (Alliance of Valiant Arms) sells cosmetic sidegrades (altho some of them are upgrades, p2w is bad thing) of their weapons.
Lottery. Lottery capsules.

Imagine a bubblegum dispenser. Inside there are lots of different flavored bubblegums, but only 1 Super bubblegum. The users put in money (game currency or real currency depending on the jackpot item) and receive in-game items from every capsule. The pool of these capsules come usually in maximum of 300, 200 and 100 capsules, meaning that out of those 300, 200 or 100, 1 of them has the jackpot in it, and every purchase lowers that amount until the jackpot is won, after which the pool resets.
So if I buy 10 capsules out of a 100 capsule machine and don't win, the next capsule now has 1/90 chance to win the jackpot, and so forth.
The other in-game items received vary from common in-game currency purchaseable items to a bit more rare real life currency items (useables that expire after certain time/usage).
Note to add, the counters in my example's capsule lottery rarely go past 1/3 of the maximum, most wins come around the half of the pool.
There are in-game currency capsules and real life currency capsules for a bit of variety, no same shared jackpots between the two.

To be completely honest, I don't know if this is the best business model there is, but it's just an idea for you guys to consider if you're weighing your options.
...and if naming the game from which this is from is a bad idea, feel free to edit it out of my post or delete it.

ZeroFernir
8th Oct 2013, 14:31
Okay, this is a good start for a f2p game, a good start. Unlike Alaethyr, I personally don't have much against these.

But allow me as a somewhat experienced f2p gamer (oh god) present you another alternative to the chests/bags.
This is how a game called A.V.A. (Alliance of Valiant Arms) sells cosmetic sidegrades (altho some of them are upgrades, p2w is bad thing) of their weapons.
Lottery. Lottery capsules.

Imagine a bubblegum dispenser. Inside there are lots of different flavored bubblegums, but only 1 Super bubblegum. The users put in money (game currency or real currency depending on the jackpot item) and receive in-game items from every capsule. The pool of these capsules come usually in maximum of 300, 200 and 100 capsules, meaning that out of those 300, 200 or 100, 1 of them has the jackpot in it, and every purchase lowers that amount until the jackpot is won, after which the pool resets.
So if I buy 10 capsules out of a 100 capsule machine and don't win, the next capsule now has 1/90 chance to win the jackpot, and so forth.
The other in-game items received vary from common in-game currency purchaseable items to a bit more rare real life currency items (useables that expire after certain time/usage).
Note to add, the counters in my example's capsule lottery rarely go past 1/3 of the maximum, most wins come around the half of the pool.
There are in-game currency capsules and real life currency capsules for a bit of variety, no same shared jackpots between the two.

To be completely honest, I don't know if this is the best business model there is, but it's just an idea for you guys to consider if you're weighing your options.
...and if naming the game from which this is from is a bad idea, feel free to edit it out of my post or delete it.

What a complex idea! I think the bag is simpler and equally effective. The thing of being not that random does not make that much difference. Also, once the super capsule were get, no one would buy it anymore, until another one comes.

4nkkah
8th Oct 2013, 14:37
What a complex idea! I think the bag is simpler and equally effective. The thing of being not that random does not make that much difference. Also, once the super capsule were get, no one would buy it anymore, until another one comes.

This method allows for a bit more calculated gambling then your run-on-the-mill crates. And pure gambling for those who want it. And the item would reset along with the pool after every jackpot won.
Case in point, there are hardly unbought capsules in AVA atm.

ZeroFernir
8th Oct 2013, 14:51
This method allows for a bit more calculated gambling then your run-on-the-mill crates. And pure gambling for those who want it. And the item would reset along with the pool after every jackpot won.
Case in point, there are hardly unbought capsules in AVA atm.

Hm... this way the idea seem a bit more interessant. Maybe it could be useful... but I still think that there still should be the item in the store, non-random, even being more expensive than the capsules.

Anacrothe
8th Oct 2013, 16:18
You can find random stat items just by playing, but the rarest versions of items can currently only be found in special chests that you must buy a key to unlock. That said, we will experiment with this in beta - we've been discussing the idea of "grab bags" you can purchase for Gold (again, earned by playing) that have a chance to drop Rares, but they will likely be fairly expensive...

It's also worth noting we plan to implement trading between users during Beta. So even if you don't want to buy keys to unlock chests, you can trade other users items you loot after matches for rares if they're so inclined.

The key can be bought with in- game money right? If not then I don't see how this ISN'T pay to win as you said that only the rarest version can be found in chests. Also why would somebody trade something rare for something of less worth? Sorry if I sound rude just trying to understand in order to give feedback.

Psyonix_Corey
8th Oct 2013, 17:29
The key can be bought with in- game money right? If not then I don't see how this ISN'T pay to win as you said that only the rarest version can be found in chests. Also why would somebody trade something rare for something of less worth? Sorry if I sound rude just trying to understand in order to give feedback.

The stat mods all balance out with negatives. So even if you have a rare with multiple mods, it's net neutral compared to the "base" model everyone's using because each additional bonus it has comes with a paired penalty.

Plenty of people in TF2 and DOTA2 trade rare items for less rare drops. What if I find a Rare Pounce for the Reaver class and I don't play him very much? I might be willing to trade it for a few uncommon Sentinel (Razielim) items if that's my favorite class.

ZeroFernir
8th Oct 2013, 17:50
The stat mods all balance out with negatives. So even if you have a rare with multiple mods, it's net neutral compared to the "base" model everyone's using because each additional bonus it has comes with a paired penalty.

Plenty of people in TF2 and DOTA2 trade rare items for less rare drops. What if I find a Rare Pounce for the Reaver class and I don't play him very much? I might be willing to trade it for a few uncommon Sentinel (Razielim) items if that's my favorite class.

But the key IS bought with runes, then?

Vallass
8th Oct 2013, 18:43
If anything let us have two options,
1) to buy a key and unlock a chest and try your luck.
2) Let us pay a fixed amount for these 'rare' items even if it costs a hefty amount more than buying a key would.


Again this may just be my opinion but please do take it into account.

Thanks :)


I don't mind the first part, given you can use real or in-game money to "try your luck". As to the second part, I don't like giving rare items to people for real money. That LITERALLY turns this into a pay to win game. I have a wife and son, so obviously I don't have as much time to play as some players. It doesn't bother me if other players get better stuff than me if they've worked towards it. I don't like that other players can just spend tons of money and outdo me without ever really trying. Having my work outdone by others simply because they can afford the rare stuff makes me hate games like this. I avoided Neverwinter for just this reason. I was in the alpha/beta testing and they were trying to sell items already. IT'S BETA!

Anyhow, from what I've seen, allowing people to buy items that give a clear advantage over others is the new way of every "F2P" model. And if that's the case, it'll just be one more game I don't play. LoL got this right by making characters/skins buyable, not boosts TO those characters. I hope Nosgoth finds a different way to make money, they need it to succeed after all, but lets try to avoid this by making it P2W, especially since they said it wouldn't be. Not to downtalk your opinion Alaethyr, the rest of it I liked and agreed with to a degree even.

ZeroFernir
8th Oct 2013, 18:46
I don't mind the first part, given you can use real or in-game money to "try your luck". As to the second part, I don't like giving rare items to people for real money. That LITERALLY turns this into a pay to win game. I have a wife and son, so obviously I don't have as much time to play as some players. It doesn't bother me if other players get better stuff than me if they've worked towards it. I don't like that other players can just spend tons of money and outdo me without ever really trying. Having my work outdone by others simply because they can afford the rare stuff makes me hate games like this. I avoided Neverwinter for just this reason. I was in the alpha/beta testing and they were trying to sell items already. IT'S BETA!

Anyhow, from what I've seen, allowing people to buy items that give a clear advantage over others is the new way of every "F2P" model. And if that's the case, it'll just be one more game I don't play. LoL got this right by making characters/skins buyable, not boosts TO those characters. I hope Nosgoth finds a different way to make money, they need it to succeed after all, but lets try to avoid this by making it P2W, especially since they said it wouldn't be. Not to downtalk your opinion Alaethyr, the rest of it I liked and agreed with to a degree even.

I think that it should be sold in in-game coins, every item, even thought the rarest to be extremelly expensive. Plus, I think that runes should be only to buy skins and SOME abilities, the least part of those.

Psyonix_Corey
8th Oct 2013, 19:06
For it to be Pay 2 Win, you'd have to be able to acquire items that are more powerful than their counterparts. This is not the case.

We will explore during alpha and beta what should and shouldn't be purchasable with Gold (in-game currency). There will always be some items, like alternate character skins (cosmetic only), that will never be sold for Gold, though it's possible we would offer "prestige" skins exclusive to people who have played a specific class to some high level, etc.

ZeroFernir
8th Oct 2013, 19:11
For it to be Pay 2 Win, you'd have to be able to acquire items that are more powerful than their counterparts. This is not the case.

We will explore during alpha and beta what should and shouldn't be purchasable with Gold (in-game currency). There will always be some items, like alternate character skins (cosmetic only), that will never be sold for Gold, though it's possible we would offer "prestige" skins exclusive to people who have played a specific class to some high level, etc.

This looks nice. Hope you choose right during alpha and beta. I would love seeing this game being sucessful.

Anacrothe
8th Oct 2013, 19:15
The stat mods all balance out with negatives. So even if you have a rare with multiple mods, it's net neutral compared to the "base" model everyone's using because each additional bonus it has comes with a paired penalty.

Plenty of people in TF2 and DOTA2 trade rare items for less rare drops. What if I find a Rare Pounce for the Reaver class and I don't play him very much? I might be willing to trade it for a few uncommon Sentinel (Razielim) items if that's my favorite class.

Ah I see thanks for clarifying that. But still, will the keys be bought with runes only? Not a slimmer chance to drop or whatnot. I also like the grab bag idea, because if the chests only contain a chance of getting a rare then ill be odd to buy it money just for a chance.

Psyonix_Corey
8th Oct 2013, 19:17
Ah I see thanks for clarifying that. But still, will the keys be bought with runes only? Not a slimmer chance to drop or whatnot. I also like the grab bag idea, because if the chests only contain a chance of getting a rare then ill be odd to buy it money just for a chance.

Here's some discussions we've had about keys besides buying them with runes:
- Rare drop after finishing a match
- Rare login reward (similar to Warframe, you get increasingly good rewards each consecutive day you login until it resets)
- Reward for participating in War for Nosgoth (we'll talk about this later...)

Squarezilla
8th Oct 2013, 19:17
For it to be Pay 2 Win, you'd have to be able to acquire items that are more powerful than their counterparts. This is not the case.

We will explore during alpha and beta what should and shouldn't be purchasable with Gold (in-game currency). There will always be some items, like alternate character skins (cosmetic only), that will never be sold for Gold, though it's possible we would offer "prestige" skins exclusive to people who have played a specific class to some high level, etc.

I have a question is there by any chance going to be a new FX for the vampires,like for example new feeding animation for the vampires as stated in this thread with the turelim.On a side note if you can answer this will there be any executions for the characters i think i saw some for the Turelim and the Dumahim also it would be great for the humans to have some :3

ZeroFernir
8th Oct 2013, 19:33
Here's some discussions we've had about keys besides buying them with runes:
- Rare drop after finishing a match
- Rare login reward (similar to Warframe, you get increasingly good rewards each consecutive day you login until it resets)
- Reward for participating in War for Nosgoth (we'll talk about this later...)

Woah, You gave us a good hint there. War for Nosgoth will be some new kind of match?

Psyonix_Corey
8th Oct 2013, 19:52
I have a question is there by any chance going to be a new FX for the vampires,like for example new feeding animation for the vampires as stated in this thread with the turelim.On a side note if you can answer this will there be any executions for the characters i think i saw some for the Turelim and the Dumahim also it would be great for the humans to have some :3

Alternate executions have come up a lot as a request from our own playtesters, so we'd definitely like to look into it during Beta as an unlockable. We are definitely offering FX for vampires e.g. glowing effects on your arms/hands/eyes.

Human executions would be really cool and we tried them at one point during development but the gameplay doesn't really support them presently. Specifically it was a bit too punishing to require humans to execute vampires as you often kill them from a significant distance - having to hoof it over to find their body and finish them off wasn't fun, and ended up being unbalanced. Instead we allow human weapons to "gib" vampires - blowing off limbs, heads, or destroying their entire body (on direct hits from explosives, like the Hand Cannon). You'll be able to find rare human weapons that alter this, for instance a Freezing Longbow might shatter a vampire on death.

LiKrySo
8th Oct 2013, 20:27
Reminds me of Rakion, with a "cash" store and a gold store.
Will you use Steam to trade items?

Vampmaster
8th Oct 2013, 20:34
Alternate executions have come up a lot as a request from our own playtesters, so we'd definitely like to look into it during Beta as an unlockable. We are definitely offering FX for vampires e.g. glowing effects on your arms/hands/eyes.

Human executions would be really cool and we tried them at one point during development but the gameplay doesn't really support them presently. Specifically it was a bit too punishing to require humans to execute vampires as you often kill them from a significant distance - having to hoof it over to find their body and finish them off wasn't fun, and ended up being unbalanced. Instead we allow human weapons to "gib" vampires - blowing off limbs, heads, or destroying their entire body (on direct hits from explosives, like the Hand Cannon). You'll be able to find rare human weapons that alter this, for instance a Freezing Longbow might shatter a vampire on death.

If you're having elemental weapons, you should depict that by using the symbols from Raziels elemental reavers and each clan should be strong and weak against a particular element. Ice counted as water in Defiance, since you mention that.

Anacrothe
8th Oct 2013, 20:47
Here's some discussions we've had about keys besides buying them with runes:
- Rare drop after finishing a match
- Rare login reward (similar to Warframe, you get increasingly good rewards each consecutive day you login until it resets)
- Reward for participating in War for Nosgoth (we'll talk about this later...)

Oh that is great! I definitely approve of these discussions xD

Squarezilla
8th Oct 2013, 21:00
Alternate executions have come up a lot as a request from our own playtesters, so we'd definitely like to look into it during Beta as an unlockable. We are definitely offering FX for vampires e.g. glowing effects on your arms/hands/eyes.

Human executions would be really cool and we tried them at one point during development but the gameplay doesn't really support them presently. Specifically it was a bit too punishing to require humans to execute vampires as you often kill them from a significant distance - having to hoof it over to find their body and finish them off wasn't fun, and ended up being unbalanced. Instead we allow human weapons to "gib" vampires - blowing off limbs, heads, or destroying their entire body (on direct hits from explosives, like the Hand Cannon). You'll be able to find rare human weapons that alter this, for instance a Freezing Longbow might shatter a vampire on death.

Ah yeah now that you mention it i did see a gib effect when the scout shot the reavers head off yeah i can dig that and the vampire effects will be awesome i can see it now a sentinel with blue eyes and red trails coming out of its wings (blood perhaps?) just picking you up and throwing you on the ground.That or a huge tyrant just doing a bellyflop now that i would totally buy

ZeroFernir
8th Oct 2013, 21:41
Alternate executions have come up a lot as a request from our own playtesters, so we'd definitely like to look into it during Beta as an unlockable. We are definitely offering FX for vampires e.g. glowing effects on your arms/hands/eyes.

Human executions would be really cool and we tried them at one point during development but the gameplay doesn't really support them presently. Specifically it was a bit too punishing to require humans to execute vampires as you often kill them from a significant distance - having to hoof it over to find their body and finish them off wasn't fun, and ended up being unbalanced. Instead we allow human weapons to "gib" vampires - blowing off limbs, heads, or destroying their entire body (on direct hits from explosives, like the Hand Cannon). You'll be able to find rare human weapons that alter this, for instance a Freezing Longbow might shatter a vampire on death.

The executions would take some seconds, right? So the vampire would be vulnerable while doing it? or it will just replace the normal visual of the last attack?


Ah yeah now that you mention it i did see a gib effect when the scout shot the reavers head off yeah i can dig that and the vampire effects will be awesome i can see it now a sentinel with blue eyes and red trails coming out of its wings (blood perhaps?) just picking you up and throwing you on the ground.That or a huge tyrant just doing a bellyflop now that i would totally buy

That Razielim would look like a aeroplane, LOL xDDDD