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saynotocheckpoints
8th Sep 2006, 11:13
I've just got to the Nepal level and I had to take a break to ease my frustration. I've played all the other games in the series (PC Versions) and I've found this one the most frustrating.

Why? ...Well I'm fed up with companies that implement checkpoint save systems in games! In my opinion it totally ruins a game.

I firmly believe that a game's level of difficulty should be defined by the skill required to complete a task - not by the level of patience required to complete a series of tasks in a row. I also strongly believe that a gamer should have total control over this part of the gaming experience, being able to save their progress when they feel they have reached a point that they themselves choose as an appropriate marker for their current success along the timeline of the game. I think the gamer deserves the opportunity to play a game the way they choose to. Power to the gamer, not the developer!

The checkpoint system only leads to frustration because lets face it, no matter how good you are, we all make silly mistakes and you don't want to have to repeatedly complete a series of steps because you make a silly mistake. Let's say there are 3 tasks to complete before a checkpoint: tasks 1 and 2 might be easy but 3 could be a bit trickier. In this case you might find yourself repeatedly having to perform the easy tasks 1 and 2 because you slip up on task 3. This causes frustration which is then compounded by the fact that you end up rushing the east steps 1 and 2 to get to 3 again and by doing so you make stupid mistakes on the easy tasks. It is a cycle of frustration. Again compounded when you have to hear the same character voices over and over again.

Also, if you are not able to pick the specific points where you choose to save then you tend not to take as many risks, eg looking for secrets etc. In my case, I once saw a secret but missed out on getting it because I explored in a different direction which ended up cutting me off from that secret and I wasn't able to reload the game to perform the tasks in the order that you wanted. (I finished that level with all secrets found except that one!)

Checkpoints take the focus of the game away from simply taking your time and exploring because you are too busy making sure you don't make any mistakes as you don't want to have to do the last series of tasks again. It detatches you from the game atmosphere and removes a lot of enjoyment.

I also found the game controls in combination with the camera quite frustrating at times and find myself longing for the controls of the previous games, although the mouse-camera in this game helps. Although I'd actually like to be able to press the move forward key and Lara always moves forward - no matter the camera angle.

Mangar The Dark
8th Sep 2006, 13:50
I agree to an extent-- I definitely prefer the ability to save whenever/wherever I want. However, in the case of Legend, the check points were well placed, and the game was so easy (compared to previous TRs), that it really didn't pose a problem for me. Now, if they used a check point system in any previous TR games, I would never have played them. But with Legend, it was okay. Not ideal, but okay.

Prince Of Persia pissed me off more with its checkpoints, because they always appeared only after a major fight, and often those fights took me a very long time to beat. I would have loved the ability to save DURING a fight. I did give up on that game out of sheer frustration.

saynotocheckpoints
8th Sep 2006, 14:22
You're right, TR Legend was easy in the sense that the puzzles were quickly solved, compared to some of the others in the series. I think the only difficulty in Legend came in the fact that the game used checkpoints, which is disappointing because the game simply involves performing a series of tricky jumps, scared that you won't make the next checkpoint. So there's no time to explore and get the most from the game. I lost a lot of interest when I realised that it was impossible for me to safely go back and retrieve secrets. In fact if you didn't get a nearby secret(s) before you got to a checkpoint, you'd have to go and get all those secrets again every time you respawned at a checkpoint after death. Now that was very frustrating indeed!

I think the game had a lot of potential but it all went down hill with the decision to use checkpoints - because that changes the whole focus of the game at a core level. It's important to realise that checkpoints don't just affect the ability to save, they change the way the game is designed, both in gameplay and level design. I agree that the checkpoints were frequent in Legend but they still managed to frustrate me to no end.

Like you, I wouldn't have played the TR series if they all used checkpoints. In fact I only got this game because I've played all the others.

And yes, I too tried my patience on Prince of Persia and gave up in the end. :)

Bloody Angel of Darkness
18th Sep 2006, 10:47
I agree lads!Imagine AoD with checkpoints.:eek:
The checkpoints were well placed most of the time but it was really annoying that I'd have to recollect all of the awards if I died. Not to mention listening to the same lines all over again. For example in England in the hall with the puppets there is a sliding ramp you are supposed to jump over. I found that quite difficult and I was really frustrated I had to get the silver reward and hear Alister saying the same thing for dozen times in a row.
And,anyway,I used to love the good old save-every-few-steps system so that you wouldn't have to do anything boring again like climb all the way up a huge ladder and then perform a couple of extemely difficult jumps (I'm not talking about the automatic Legend ones). It really takes away much of the liberty of the game...

aussie500
18th Sep 2006, 14:20
Strange the checkpoint saves never had any effect on my ability to explore, l saved at the begining of the level and never worried about it after that. The only time l was a bit annoyed was in England when l accidently died halfway down the stairs only to realise l could not get the 2 rewards again at the top. l simply restarted from my save game and made sure l did not die the second time

Treeble
18th Sep 2006, 15:51
The only time l was a bit annoyed was in England when l accidently died halfway down the stairs only to realise l could not get the 2 rewards again at the top. l simply restarted from my save game and made sure l did not die the second time

I always picked them on my way down, but here's a thought, later on when you get back and there's an elevator that'll take you back up, couldn't these rewards be collected then? :scratch:

Terminatorvs
18th Sep 2006, 21:18
To TREEBLE: I'm afraid not - the stairs collapsed in several places.
Personally, I wasn't frustrated by the checkpoint system - the game is far too easy, and all the movements are designed to assist the player. For example, the autograb. Besides, checkpoints appear every 2 or 3 minutes, so you don't have to worry about saving your progress. Missed a secret? Replay the level - they're short. It takes about 10-20 minutes to complete a level.
P. S. I completed all 3 "POP" games (I mean the latest ones. Not the ones from the eghties) and didn't feel any frustration. As I said: the controls are very good.

Treeble
18th Sep 2006, 22:41
Agree with you about the Prince Of Persia trilogy, but I've played it on the GameCube. Perhaps on PC it was frustrating.

But back on the two bronze rewards, the stairs did collapse, but if the two he had missed were the ones at the very top, he could still get them using the grapple. I think on the way down there's only the one you have to shimmy quickly to the right to enter a narrow niche. :scratch:

aussie500
19th Sep 2006, 16:06
Nah l tried with the grapple it would not reach from where l "revived" l had already gone through the lower checkpoint. Of course if l had realised at the time l was going to be coming back that way l would not have worried about it, but l restarted the level from my savegame, at that point l wanted as many of the rewards as l could get, although it took about 3 goes for me to eventually get the gold in Bolivia and Kazakhstan, the first l could not find and the second l was pretty sure l knew where it was but could not reach it. Those 2 rewards kept me more occupied than the rest of the game put together :lmao:

Treeble
19th Sep 2006, 20:52
(...) it took about 3 goes for me to eventually get the gold in Bolivia and Kazakhstan, the first l could not find and the second l was pretty sure l knew where it was but could not reach it. Those 2 rewards kept me more occupied than the rest of the game put together :lmao:

Yeah, the one in Kazakhstan especially took me ages the first time around, now everytime I replay the game, the platform seems to slide till the end on the first try! Same as for Bolivia, I ended up opening and closing that door quite a number of times till I eventually got it (and climbing all the way up and down to see if I could reach the gold yet). When I play now, I just keep an eye on the rotating wheels, when they do a complete turn I know it's on the perfect spot. :D

dulcika_roxy
23rd Sep 2006, 12:35
how can i active those stupid weels....i cant get past bolivia and i`m get frustrated...i`m playing for 20 min now...and i cant get past that fhing
someone ...pls help