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View Full Version : Modding



LOFO1993
1st Oct 2013, 08:53
That's something I don't think anyone asked yet: will the game, once it's released, support modding, and if yes in which regards? That could make quite a difference in terms of longevity and also potential appeal towards the game.

ZeroFernir
7th Oct 2013, 23:51
I think no modding would be permitted, because it could mean to have hacks too.

LOFO1993
8th Oct 2013, 07:46
I was thinking of something in the line of Steam Workshop, considering the game will actually be on Steam. Team Fortress has modding too in this sense.

Rahabthesecond
8th Oct 2013, 09:00
Hm....Since it's a game that is supposed to be fair: No mods that gives you an advantage, so no mods that improves your damage or something
That leaves a "results" mod telling you how good or bad your opponents are and skins. Since I don't have any idea how a skin would give you a great advantage this would probably be okay!

ZeroFernir
8th Oct 2013, 11:46
Hm....Since it's a game that is supposed to be fair: No mods that gives you an advantage, so no mods that improves your damage or something
That leaves a "results" mod telling you how good or bad your opponents are and skins. Since I don't have any idea how a skin would give you a great advantage this would probably be okay!

But the skins are one of the only things that they can sell... why would them let you mod it?

Rahabthesecond
8th Oct 2013, 14:25
1: Can you even stop players to design skins, use them on their computer (not on th server of course) and upload these somewhere?
2: If they manage to create high quality skins themselve, those will sell because not all people have fun to download and install stuff from the internet (viruses etc.)
3: Many games like World of Tanks, War Thunder, and many more sell skins, but players are allowed (or at least it's tolerated) to create skins themselves. If you play these game, you notice that quite a lot of people use these skins even if they could use a mod. At best it will give you a little less income, but you don't scare as many players off as with a strict "No you are not allowed to" policy.

ZeroFernir
8th Oct 2013, 14:47
1: Can you even stop players to design skins, use them on their computer (not on th server of course) and upload these somewhere?
2: If they manage to create high quality skins themselve, those will sell because not all people have fun to download and install stuff from the internet (viruses etc.)
3: Many games like World of Tanks, War Thunder, and many more sell skins, but players are allowed (or at least it's tolerated) to create skins themselves. If you play these game, you notice that quite a lot of people use these skins even if they could use a mod. At best it will give you a little less income, but you don't scare as many players off as with a strict "No you are not allowed to" policy.

I think that it may be a bad idea. Some skins may go unfair. Imagine a Razielim with a super dark skin. That would be hard to see. I think the skins should only be sell by them.

Anacrothe
8th Oct 2013, 15:18
Was never a fan of mods but different IU skins would be cool.

Rahabthesecond
8th Oct 2013, 15:20
I think that it may be a bad idea. Some skins may go unfair. Imagine a Razielim with a super dark skin. That would be hard to see. I think the skins should only be sell by them.

No, usually skin you use on your own computer is only visual to you! The game will (hopefully) run server sided, meaning that the server tells your computer where your avatar is, what he can see etc. If you move your avatar arround you send the information (request) to move your avatar to the server and the information that your avatar is moved will be returned.
If you now think about chaning a skin or something you just delete the original skin from your computer and change it with a new one but not from the server. For the server there is still a razielim character (with original skin) in the game and only on your machine you will see your own skin (because that's the place where you changed the skin). Everyone else in the game will see the original non changed skin on your character and can't see your skin, unless they decide to install it on their own Pc.
If you would allow the client to send actual information to the server (more than requests) cheating or hacking would become extreme easy because you could simply "tell" the server stuff like: My character can see the entire map (viewrange extrem high) and one hit kills every enemy (Damage 5000 instead of 234). Instead of just requesting the server: I hit character XYZ, based on the skills of my character (which are saved on the server, not on your client) how much damage have I done?

Edit: I'm a biologist not a computer guy. This is more or less my basic understanding of modern online games. Hope it's more or less right and understandable and I got the terms correct!

ZeroFernir
8th Oct 2013, 17:44
No, usually skin you use on your own computer is only visual to you! The game will (hopefully) run server sided, meaning that the server tells your computer where your avatar is, what he can see etc. If you move your avatar arround you send the information (request) to move your avatar to the server and the information that your avatar is moved will be returned.
If you now think about chaning a skin or something you just delete the original skin from your computer and change it with a new one but not from the server. For the server there is still a razielim character (with original skin) in the game and only on your machine you will see your own skin (because that's the place where you changed the skin). Everyone else in the game will see the original non changed skin on your character and can't see your skin, unless they decide to install it on their own Pc.
If you would allow the client to send actual information to the server (more than requests) cheating or hacking would become extreme easy because you could simply "tell" the server stuff like: My character can see the entire map (viewrange extrem high) and one hit kills every enemy (Damage 5000 instead of 234). Instead of just requesting the server: I hit character XYZ, based on the skills of my character (which are saved on the server, not on your client) how much damage have I done?

Edit: I'm a biologist not a computer guy. This is more or less my basic understanding of modern online games. Hope it's more or less right and understandable and I got the terms correct!

If so, what would be the reason to modding? -.- plus, there could be mods that makein your computer houses or buildings tranparent. That would be unfair.

Rahabthesecond
8th Oct 2013, 19:12
If so, what would be the reason to modding? -.- plus, there could be mods that makein your computer houses or buildings tranparent. That would be unfair.
1: You mod to play as your favourite character and (if you want to) to allow other people to do the same. Yes, only people who installed your mod can see what's changed, but...Why would you want the others to see if your character looks like Raziel/Lara Croft/Kaine from Blood Omen?

2: Well the standard today is as I described a server sided game. This means: A good moder can make the walls transparent BUT HE HAS NO ADVANTAGE. Look: You made the walls transparent on your client. What happens now? Your wall seems transparent on your client. But still: Server tells client: "You are at position X. Client asks: "Who can I see?" Server checks his data: "Avatars viewrange is (vallue) Obstacles in the way are (Obstacles, the walls. Server still knows they are there and knows your position). Server tells client based on these data who he can see.
Result: The walls seem transparent but you still can't see if anyone stands behind. To do so, you have to hack the server.

Why mod? Well as I told: You can change the visual effects of the game (for yourself) like you want. Want your character to look like a Hylden? Done. Want the Volcano map to look like a map in snowy mountains with snoweffect and Cottage style houses? Much work but possible. Still changes nothing in terms of playability (and everyone else will still see the volcano map).
So what do you gain from making walls transparent? No info about other players, perhaps you can see if there is a river behind the house or flat land, but nothing more, you will ruin your gaming experience, because houses made of glass look stupid.
What can you gain from modding? As I said you can make your character look like you want to what's pretty cool.
You want to impress other players with your cool skin? Buy an official skin and everyone will see it.
The big advantage of a server sided game for the developer is that cheating or tricking is close to impossible!

ZeroFernir
9th Oct 2013, 02:23
1: You mod to play as your favourite character and (if you want to) to allow other people to do the same. Yes, only people who installed your mod can see what's changed, but...Why would you want the others to see if your character looks like Raziel/Lara Croft/Kaine from Blood Omen?

2: Well the standard today is as I described a server sided game. This means: A good moder can make the walls transparent BUT HE HAS NO ADVANTAGE. Look: You made the walls transparent on your client. What happens now? Your wall seems transparent on your client. But still: Server tells client: "You are at position X. Client asks: "Who can I see?" Server checks his data: "Avatars viewrange is (vallue) Obstacles in the way are (Obstacles, the walls. Server still knows they are there and knows your position). Server tells client based on these data who he can see.
Result: The walls seem transparent but you still can't see if anyone stands behind. To do so, you have to hack the server.

Why mod? Well as I told: You can change the visual effects of the game (for yourself) like you want. Want your character to look like a Hylden? Done. Want the Volcano map to look like a map in snowy mountains with snoweffect and Cottage style houses? Much work but possible. Still changes nothing in terms of playability (and everyone else will still see the volcano map).
So what do you gain from making walls transparent? No info about other players, perhaps you can see if there is a river behind the house or flat land, but nothing more, you will ruin your gaming experience, because houses made of glass look stupid.
What can you gain from modding? As I said you can make your character look like you want to what's pretty cool.
You want to impress other players with your cool skin? Buy an official skin and everyone will see it.
The big advantage of a server sided game for the developer is that cheating or tricking is close to impossible!

Well, I didn't knew about that, thanks for the info... and I laugh at the "houses made of glass look stupid" kkkkkkk

LOFO1993
9th Oct 2013, 07:35
Games with dedicated servers always have some kind of cheat-protection, so I don't think that has nothing to do really with my original point. I know if someone wants to change something in the game files he just will, one way or another, but if he does that in order to cheat, well that's cheating, not modding, and it's a complete different thing.

My question was: how far the developers will allow modding before you will have to do it without letting them know? Anyway, I guess it's something only the development team and the PR guys know, so unless one of them decides to join this thread and tell us something nothing we will say will change things.