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Swagraven
29th Sep 2013, 12:42
Ok, I'm not going to lie, I think the weapons all look pretty cool...except the grenade launcher thing. But that's up to personal taste, I guess. :whistle:
What I REALLY would like to talk about is how playing with them is going to be. Hopefully they do enough damage to really make them useful against the vampires, without making them absurd, or the vampires too weak. What do you guys think? Cool? Not cool? Anyone who played it already, feel free to chime in with your experience with them. I'd love to hear it.

dxluv1
29th Sep 2013, 12:54
I'd imagine it would work like any group of effective Vampire Hunters in any other media. Just pretend both sides fighting are the cannon fodder in all of the action movies you see.

epicly_noob
29th Sep 2013, 14:55
i'm just hoping right now the bow has a gravity effect on the arrow and doesn't shoot like a gun because that will add more skill into the game

Itazura25
29th Sep 2013, 16:46
shot with a bow seems to be deadly .... one shot one death ... but if vampires are not dead already?

I most liked the automatic crossbow .... I hope it will be just as deadly as a bow. What worries me is that only the gameplay does not fully show his możliwiości like an alchemist or scout can bring even more interesting class for humans ^ ^

SpookieGhost
29th Sep 2013, 17:13
Ok, I'm not going to lie, I think the weapons all look pretty cool...except the grenade launcher thing. But that's up to personal taste, I guess. :whistle:
What I REALLY would like to talk about is how playing with them is going to be. Hopefully they do enough damage to really make them useful against the vampires, without making them absurd, or the vampires too weak. What do you guys think? Cool? Not cool? Anyone who played it already, feel free to chime in with your experience with them. I'd love to hear it.

I remember a weapon similar to the grenade launcher in SR2. I don't recall it being very effective when the enemies used it against you. If anything, I'd say the flamethrower would be the most effective

RainaAudron
29th Sep 2013, 17:15
Yeah, there is a hand cannon in SR2 which fires projectiles, kinda like a primitive gun.

MasterShuriko
29th Sep 2013, 17:42
Yeah, there is a hand cannon in SR2 which fires projectiles, kinda like a primitive gun.

Sec riggin up my old Ps2. Need to playthrough this game again!

Bazielim
29th Sep 2013, 20:38
Yep, Hand Cannons (http://legacyofkain.wikia.com/wiki/Hand_cannons) are in SR2, held by Vampire hunter cannoneers (http://legacyofkain.wikia.com/wiki/Vampire_hunter_cannoneers) and Demon hunter cannoneers (http://legacyofkain.wikia.com/wiki/Demon_hunter_cannoneers)
http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110113010425/legacyofkain/images/2/21/SR2-Merc-M2.jpghttp://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120511160715/legacyofkain/images/a/af/SR2-DH-Cannon.pnghttp://images.wikia.com/legacyofkain/images/2/24/SR2-DemonHunter-Cannoneer.png

Wraithblade6
29th Sep 2013, 20:40
I do like the idea of sniping.

Swagraven
30th Sep 2013, 00:19
Yep, Hand Cannons (http://legacyofkain.wikia.com/wiki/Hand_cannons) are in SR2, held by Vampire hunter cannoneers (http://legacyofkain.wikia.com/wiki/Vampire_hunter_cannoneers) and Demon hunter cannoneers (http://legacyofkain.wikia.com/wiki/Demon_hunter_cannoneers)
http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110113010425/legacyofkain/images/2/21/SR2-Merc-M2.jpghttp://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120511160715/legacyofkain/images/a/af/SR2-DH-Cannon.pnghttp://images.wikia.com/legacyofkain/images/2/24/SR2-DemonHunter-Cannoneer.png

Yep. This is why I'm not too keen on the grenade launcher thing. It wasn't anything worse than a slight nuisance. I forever have a low opinion of it now. XD

Vanyelxp5
30th Sep 2013, 00:29
There were times when it was incredibly annoying. But you need to understand something... Raziel is a lot more powerful than the vampires in any of the clans, so an annoyance to him could be incredibly dangerous to a clan vamp.

Swagraven
30th Sep 2013, 00:42
This is true, but I guess I'm having a bit of a heard time getting over my prejudice against it. They were just so annoying in SR2. I'm pretty actually excited to play with the flamethrower, though.

Kriegson
30th Sep 2013, 02:02
There were times when it was incredibly annoying. But you need to understand something... Raziel is a lot more powerful than the vampires in any of the clans, so an annoyance to him could be incredibly dangerous to a clan vamp.

This ^

Raziel was truly immortal. Incapable of being killed (unless the elder god desired it or until certain criteria was met) and that aside basically a spirit that could manifest in physical form. Bleeding, broken bones, ruptured organs, none of those would effect him in the slightest as he could simply re-manifest.

On the subject of arrows, I don't mind them being a one hit kill considering a few things:

They fire in an arc

They have travel time (not hitscan)

They have to charge for full power

Have to hit in the head

Zimitry
2nd Oct 2013, 23:40
If theydo the bow handling like in the like in Skyrim, it should be great, specially with specific damage depending on the hit zone.

I don't mind the cannon thing if they put it in the game, I can totally see a tank human, slower with more physical resistance and strength and carrying that cannon which explosion has a considerable radius and a long cooldown.

ZeroFernir
3rd Oct 2013, 00:22
I really hope they can balance it too... that is the basic point of the game, and it looks surelly challenging, to balance melee and ranged... surelly it will be a very strategic game, after all.

TheIrtar
3rd Oct 2013, 02:05
I hope they add a human melee class.

Dunno why, but I always loved the look of Malek and that pike.

Sedaz1337
4th Oct 2013, 11:18
just give me a shotgun and i will be happy

Vampmaster
4th Oct 2013, 11:40
Lightning Rod!

LOFO1993
4th Oct 2013, 11:43
Well, there is a big difference between a hand cannon and a grenade launcher. The first is like a big gun shootingoen large metal or stone ball, the latter has explosive shots, that are way harder to create and in no way could be shot in safety using just black powder or something similar as a propeller (as it was with cannons and guns, and with hand cannons like the ones seen in SR2 too).

I'm not complaining too much, I know grenade launchers are cool and appealing, but I'd like nonetheless the developers to at least try to conceal their appearance. For example, make it shoot glass balls full of some magical substance that when the ball breaks on the impact will cause an explosion; a plain and simple modern grenade launcher would never fit in this context.

Of course I don't know yet how the human weapons in the game are supposed to work, I'm just speaking in advance.


About a melee human class: just no. It would be cool as hell, don't get me wrong, but it's way too clear this game is conceived to be shooting vs. melee, and probably that would change the balance too much.

Vampmaster
4th Oct 2013, 11:52
For example, make it shoot glass balls full of some magical substance that when the ball breaks on the impact will cause an explosion; a plain and simple modern grenade launcher would never fit in this context.

They use that sort of effect in the announcement trailer when they talk about swapping it out for the ability to heal team mates. They get covered in some blue potion.

LOFO1993
4th Oct 2013, 12:00
They use that sort of effect in the announcement trailer when they talk about swapping it out for the ability to heal team mates. They get covered in some blue potion.

Yeah, I noticed that too. I just hope they keep a similar style for all the weapons and make them more steampunk than modern. The bows seem to look cool already, as the armors. I'm more concerned about that automated crossbow, that shoots way too fast no matter what its inner working could be and, as someone else already said, it would be nice if arrows would be affected somehow by gravity, even if just slightly. You know, when a crossbow has virtually no difference from a machine gun, well, that's not a crossbow anymore, it's just a gun with a different skin.

MrMilky
4th Oct 2013, 12:25
Human weapons seem kitsch to me. I'd prefer regular medieval i.e. no decorations on them. It would fit their "living in fear" thing because they wouldn't really care for the looks of the weapons as long as they're effective.
That's my impression anyway.
I'm not sure what's with the minigun crossbow or automated crossbow. It doesn't seem canon to me. Someone provide more input about this, thanks.

Raziel1228
4th Oct 2013, 21:58
With the bow I hope it won't be a 1-shot kill. I seen it with a arrow on fire and a normal arrow. If each scout was allowed 1 fire arrow each life then sure it can be a 1-shot kill. However I believe it should take 2 shots to kill with the normal ammo for the bow(except head-shots of course).

Vampmaster
4th Oct 2013, 22:02
With the bow I hope it won't be a 1-shot kill. I seen it with a arrow on fire and a normal arrow. If each scout was allowed 1 fire arrow each life then sure it can be a 1-shot kill. However I believe it should take 2 shots to kill with the normal ammo for the bow(except head-shots of course).

It wasn't a one shot kill when I tried. I think I only got 4 kills in two matches, and I was a vampire on one of them.

Raziel1228
5th Oct 2013, 00:00
It wasn't a one shot kill when I tried. I think I only got 4 kills in two matches, and I was a vampire on one of them.

Well you played the alpha(Lucky you I hope im chosen) so you must know how the weapons work and such. I just hope nothing on the human side is a instakill except for maybe a grenade launcher straight to the face.

Kriegson
5th Oct 2013, 00:58
Well you played the alpha(Lucky you I hope im chosen) so you must know how the weapons work and such. I just hope nothing on the human side is a instakill except for maybe a grenade launcher straight to the face.
Eh, even then that shouldn't kill them. Only thing I can think of is a fully charged bowshot, with all the factors mentioned earlier it could be a pretty risk/reward weapon when it comes to hunting things that can get on your **** and kill you in an instant when you have that one single shot to make (unless with friends of course).

And as for handcannon, the alt fire is a flamethrower IIRC. Now THAT should kill a vamp pretty quick if they sit there getting bathed in flames.

Raziel1228
5th Oct 2013, 01:17
I agree the flames should kill fast. In the trailer they flames had great reach but a thin stream. If its like that than they should do high damage since its more concentrated then an aoe effect.

Rahabthesecond
5th Oct 2013, 13:19
Well, there is a big difference between a hand cannon and a grenade launcher. The first is like a big gun shootingoen large metal or stone ball, the latter has explosive shots, that are way harder to create and in no way could be shot in safety using just black powder or something similar as a propeller (as it was with cannons and guns, and with hand cannons like the ones seen in SR2 too).

I'm not complaining too much, I know grenade launchers are cool and appealing, but I'd like nonetheless the developers to at least try to conceal their appearance. For example, make it shoot glass balls full of some magical substance that when the ball breaks on the impact will cause an explosion; a plain and simple modern grenade launcher would never fit in this context.

Of course I don't know yet how the human weapons in the game are supposed to work, I'm just speaking in advance.


About a melee human class: just no. It would be cool as hell, don't get me wrong, but it's way too clear this game is conceived to be shooting vs. melee, and probably that would change the balance too much.

Wouldn't that be even more unrealistic? I'm pretty sure a projectile made out of glass is more likely to break during the process of shooting it out of the barell with a gunpowder explosion than by hitting on the floor (Guess the power of the explosion is higher than a drop (or throwin the thing) on the ground)
On the other hand I have a memory of an automatic molotow cocktail thrower somewhere in my mind....

Vampmaster
5th Oct 2013, 13:45
If you google Greek Fire, you'll see that the earliest grenades were made of ceramic or stone. Also, remember the characters using the grenades in Nosgoth are alchemists. A person who can turn lead into gold should easilly be able to come up with some material strong enough to be launched from a gunpowder explosion.

Psyonix_Corey
5th Oct 2013, 15:53
I can answer a few questions here..

The Alchemist's Hand Cannon is not a modern grenade launcher. I regret our wording in the trailer - it was meant to be easily understandable (most viewers who aren't hardcore LoK fans wouldn't know what a "hand cannon" was). It shoots alchemical projectiles that explode shortly after impact. They are indeed "full of some magical substance" :)

Nothing is a one shot kill. We balance all of the weapons relatively equally - one class is not supposed to be numerically superior to another. That doesn't mean 1 bomb = 1 arrow, but that when you account for fire rate, how many shots you get before reloading, and accuracy, they all tend to feel equal.

Regarding the Scout's bow specifically because it was raised - it is not a projectile with drop, but instead hitscan as you mention. We actually went into developing the Scout class wanting it to be a projectile as you mention, but in practice it was deemed too difficult to use. I realize it works out in modern shooters on titles like Battlefield 3 which has sniper rifle bullet drop, but enemies in normal shooters move significantly slower and more predictably than our vampires. It's a lot easier to account for the drop in those games. Secondly, the core mechanic of the Scout bow is that drawing it back increases your damage significantly. You can fire in more rapid succession for less damage, or you can fully draw it back for a powerful shot (as seen in the trailer).

LOFO1993
5th Oct 2013, 17:02
I can answer a few questions here..

The Alchemist's Hand Cannon is not a modern grenade launcher. I regret our wording in the trailer - it was meant to be easily understandable (most viewers who aren't hardcore LoK fans wouldn't know what a "hand cannon" was). It shoots alchemical projectiles that explode shortly after impact. They are indeed "full of some magical substance" :)

Nothing is a one shot kill. We balance all of the weapons relatively equally - one class is not supposed to be numerically superior to another. That doesn't mean 1 bomb = 1 arrow, but that when you account for fire rate, how many shots you get before reloading, and accuracy, they all tend to feel equal.

Regarding the Scout's bow specifically because it was raised - it is not a projectile with drop, but instead hitscan as you mention. We actually went into developing the Scout class wanting it to be a projectile as you mention, but in practice it was deemed too difficult to use. I realize it works out in modern shooters on titles like Battlefield 3 which has sniper rifle bullet drop, but enemies in normal shooters move significantly slower and more predictably than our vampires. It's a lot easier to account for the drop in those games. Secondly, the core mechanic of the Scout bow is that drawing it back increases your damage significantly. You can fire in more rapid succession for less damage, or you can fully draw it back for a powerful shot (as seen in the trailer).


That seems fair to me...