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sarenwords
29th Sep 2013, 03:30
Greetings Nosgoth Developers!

I'll introduce myself as a serious fan of the Legacy of Kain series and offer up some valid points in regards to Nosgoth. Keep things short and simple.

For starters, I will address my issues and concerns on the following matters: character design, lore, and the art direction.

The character design is flawed. Vampires have claws that are cloven and they also have hooves as seen in the intro to Soul Reaver. Having said that, only the Zephonim can scale walls. Dumahim are the brutish tough tanks, while the Turelim are adept in telekinesis. The Razielim, which should not exist, are devolved and that leads to a major conflict in what has already been established: vampire fledglings evolve many years after their masters.

Having stated the above, the lore is inconsistent. Razielim were wiped out. It was an act of genocide. There is no possible way for them to exist post Soul Reaver intro or beyond. Even if they did exist, they're supposed to have demonic wings which is a sign of the corruption that still exists within Nosgoth, not the angelic wings that Janos and the original Vampires had, but it has already been established that character design is flawed, as the fledglings do not have cloven claws or hooves.

The art direction is nowhere the same as the previous games. It's like the game is taking place in another world, which is ironic considering the game itself is named after the world of Nosgoth. As seen in Blood Omen, Blood Omen 2, Soul Reaver, Soul Reaver 2, and Defiance, Nosgoth is mostly gothic in architecture. Think of medieval times, or England in the middle ages. The trailer depicts a more middle eastern environment than anything.

As a Legacy of Kain fan, I am deeply unhappy with how these major points in the series were ignored and shoved off for a more creative and selfish artistic direction.

The_Hylden
29th Sep 2013, 04:01
I'm getting tired of repeating myself and this has only been a couple of days...

Amy Hennig, interviewed after Soul Reaver 2:


Q: Kain says he destoryed what he created. Did he destory Raziels clan, or did
they die out like the ancients, being they are similiar?
A: This is currently unrevealed.

They left the door open for showing them one day. Ingame, there's nothing concretely stated. Melchaih states an answer that can be seen in different ways and Kain only goads Raziel on throughout the game. He never states he actually wiped them out, or had the others do it. Psyonics have them being persecuted and would probably be so until at least only a few are left and in hiding; however, all the clans band together once the humans rise up. They're battling a common enemy for now only. There are still centuries to go before Raziel is resurrected, so nothing is destroyed in the lore by anything here.

Yes, though, most agree that the Razielim should not be so devolved. They're using the assumption that because he grew the wings that was the sign he and his clan would devolve first and that, being the strongest, his soul and his clan felt the corruption from Kain the strongest... It should actually be reverse in that being the strongest, he and his clan should retain their humanity longer, and Rahab was also shown already evolving scaly skin and gill slits in the intro, so Raziel was not the first to evolve/devolve faster.

PoppaKain
29th Sep 2013, 04:04
Perhaps, Hylden, a sticky should be made of this issue? "Hey, guys, there is no concrete evidence the Razielim were killed 5 minutes after the SR1 intro, chill your pants."

Alma_Elma
29th Sep 2013, 04:08
Perhaps, Hylden, a sticky should be made of this issue? "Hey, guys, there is no concrete evidence the Razielim were killed 5 minutes after the SR1 intro, chill your pants."

Would also be cool if the diehard fans at least look at the forums before bashing on the game, and the developers

sarenwords
29th Sep 2013, 04:18
Amy Hennig, interviewed after Soul Reaver 2:
They left the door open for showing them one day.

A valid point, yet it still does not explain how their wings are angelic.

LiKrySo
29th Sep 2013, 05:44
Seems like the art team got free reign on locations and character designs, which is what most people are complaining about.

Swagraven
29th Sep 2013, 06:05
Would also be cool if the diehard fans at least look at the forums before bashing on the game, and the developers

It would also be cool if "diehard fans" knew this stuff. I mean, c'mon people. How is this not common knowledge by now? :scratch:

Vampmaster
29th Sep 2013, 10:03
A valid point, yet it still does not explain how their wings are angelic.

From what I can tell, the image with the angelic wings was a custom skin. The default as seen in the wallpaper on the main site is much more demonic. I'm assuming the feathers are decorative.

sarenwords
29th Sep 2013, 13:02
From what I can tell, the image with the angelic wings was a custom skin. The default as seen in the wallpaper on the main site is much more demonic. I'm assuming the feathers are decorative.

So in other words it is completely aesthetic.

This simple detail confirms that Nosgoth is in no way affiliated with the Legacy of Kain series and is merely a cash grab to make a quick buck and henceforth ruin another perfect series.

In other words, the dev team does not really care (as already stated, "free reign" over art design). Thus, my point has been proven, and therefore anyone who would enjoy a multiplayer third person shooter (as if we don't already have enough of those) will be more than welcome to entertain themselves with this game whereas any die hard LoK fan will not be able to stand it due to many inconsistencies.

Vae Victus.

Swagraven
29th Sep 2013, 13:10
So in other words it is completely aesthetic.

This simple detail confirms that Nosgoth is in no way affiliated with the Legacy of Kain series and is merely a cash grab to make a quick buck and henceforth ruin another perfect series.

In other words, the dev team does not really care (as already stated, "free reign" over art design). Thus, my point has been proven, and therefore anyone who would enjoy a multiplayer third person shooter (as if we don't already have enough of those) will be more than welcome to entertain themselves with this game whereas any die hard LoK fan will not be able to stand it due to many inconsistencies.

Vae Victus.

Woah, woah, woah. Just because they took a little artistic license on some beta material is not proof that the devs are a bunch of mustache curling villains plotting the next big cash grab. Taking jabs at them personally is a low blow. I'm sure if you rationally explain why feathers on the Razilim is inconsistent, and distracting whether it's decorative or not they'd take it into consideration. They've made it pretty clear that they're going to be paying attention to our requests and concerns. (Not including "DON'T MAKE THIS GAME, IT'S HORRIBLE THAT YOU'RE DESTROYING EVERYTHING I LOVE, HOW DARE YOU!" and other outrageous behaviors.)

Orionte
29th Sep 2013, 13:27
I think we should support this game regardless of flaws like the lore, because let's face it, the saga was dead, this is an opportunity to show that LoK 6 is worth doing.

My two cents.

Lord_Aevum
29th Sep 2013, 16:43
I think we should support this game regardless of flaws like the lore

There's no flaws in the lore. The flaws are in other aspects.

SpookieGhost
29th Sep 2013, 16:45
Woah, woah, woah. Just because they took a little artistic license on some beta material is not proof that the devs are a bunch of mustache curling villains plotting the next big cash grab. Taking jabs at them personally is a low blow. I'm sure if you rationally explain why feathers on the Razilim is inconsistent, and distracting whether it's decorative or not they'd take it into consideration. They've made it pretty clear that they're going to be paying attention to our requests and concerns. (Not including "DON'T MAKE THIS GAME, IT'S HORRIBLE THAT YOU'RE DESTROYING EVERYTHING I LOVE, HOW DARE YOU!" and other outrageous behaviors.)

What outrageous behaviors? Stop with the ad hominem please. One person saying the game is an awful cash grab does not equal all of us who oppose the current design of the game

I mean, the problems with the current aesthetics go far beyond the Razielim having angelic wings and looking like freaks. It also includes things like the vampires not having characteristic cloven hands and feet, or the simple fact that the Dumahim do not look like Dumahim vampires at all. When did they start climbing walls and relying on stealth? What happened to the proud and strong warriors led by an incredibly arrogant sire? What about the Turelim? When did they adopt characteristics of the Dumahim? When did the Razielim stop being the wisest and strongest of the clans?

The_Hylden
29th Sep 2013, 18:02
I don't understand where suddenly people are seeing feathers on the Razielim's wings. They're not feathered. What they are is not like Raziel's batwings. The're more covered in some kind of exoskeleton, or ribbed and they sprout from his shoulders, and harken more to leathery wings of the Hylden than of the Razielim:



And all of them should be able to climb walls with their claws, at least if they all had the tri-claws. I always took the "climbing ability" of the Zephonim as being far swifter and stealthier, able to ascend up things faster than others. We see them play with this more in Defiance, finally, as Raziel shoots up the walls pretty fast, while it takes a lot more time and effort from Kain -- too much, actually. He feels like his body must weigh eight million pounds the way he climbs :p

Therealrabban
29th Sep 2013, 18:10
At a guess fans are misusing the word angelic because the wings are placed on the scapula like the "angelic" Ancient race, and not like Raziel's "demonic" wings which are located in the lumbar region of the spine.

Vampmaster
29th Sep 2013, 18:21
I think there was a Razielim in the trailer who custom skin featuring either decorative feathers or some sort of bone spikes resembling feathers. It's the same one that had the bright colours and circular mask.

EDIT: OK, maybe it wasn't that one, but you can see what I mean at 1:22 on the trailer. To me, they look like bone, but I can see why they might be mistaken for feathers.

LiKrySo
29th Sep 2013, 19:04
The "feathered" Razielim appears after they show their ability to pick up humans.

Vampmaster
29th Sep 2013, 19:14
Yeah, that is what I meant. The bottom left one was the default that we got to play as. The other two are custom skins which I assume are either decvorative or due to further devolution.

Reidbynature
29th Sep 2013, 19:16
I'd like to see a more beautified Razielim too, but I'd settle for more Raziel accurate wings. Just have them less Hylden-like and I'll be happy.

The_Hylden
29th Sep 2013, 22:32
As with the previous board at Eidos, the same code works here. As such, for huge pics (wider than about 800 pixels), which will stretch the forums, please use the thumb code (http://forums.eidosgames.com/misc.php?do=bbcode#thumb)

Thanks for clarifying it. Yes, they appear to be two separate alternate skins. Frankly, I don't like any of the Razlielim skins, at least their wings. That first pic looks more like many brownish finger bones to the wings, than feathers. I think when stretched out, it might look better than the second skin, which is the one you see in the poster. The third pic looks like a Razliel-Razlelim -- ruined blue flesh. Yes, I'll put my own vote in for rejecting that one especially for obvious reasons.

Reidbynature
29th Sep 2013, 22:49
Anyone else see eyes on the back of those wings on the third Razielim skin? It's a bit like certain butterflies in a sense. Personally I wouldn't mind the third one as an alternative skin you can chose, but for the default Razielim look in Nosgoth I'd prefer something more accurate.

Therealrabban
29th Sep 2013, 22:51
i'd like to see a more beautified razielim too, but i'd settle for more raziel accurate wings. Just have them less hylden-like and i'll be happy.


this.

Swagraven
30th Sep 2013, 00:32
What outrageous behaviors? Stop with the ad hominem please.

I'm referring to the very common knee jerk reactions, and various inappropriate responses to the announcement of a video game. It's not ad hominem. I'm saying they're not going to pay attention to the caps locked keyboard warriors who're just restating how much they hate the idea of the new game. If you can rationally put into words what you don't like, you'll get somewhere, like you're doing right now. I think we all have pretty much the same concerns for the game, the only difference being whether or not we think the devs can pull off making a muliplayer LOK spinoff faithfully.

D_for_Dewan
30th Sep 2013, 10:14
Personally I think someone needs to make a youtube video, that takes you through all the events of Legacy of Kain, because even thou I remember pretty much of these games lore, some of the things said in these forums I can't remember and it takes a while to re-jog my memory

sarenwords
30th Sep 2013, 13:18
And all of them should be able to climb walls

That's where you've lost all credibility. Rahab specifically lurks in the water. Dumahim and Turelim never scaled walls. It was only ever the Zephonim that could. And Raziel gained the ability upon absorbing Zephon's soul. Why Kain could climb is probably because it is a raw skill that he learned over the years. Raziel on the other hand adapted by absorbing Zephon's soul. True all of the vampires have the potential to climb, but it wouldn't suit what their bodies are made for.

What really needs to be changed in order for Nosgoth to even be considered enjoyable would be for Turelim to actually look like Turelim (bunny ears) and be adept telekinesis users (or "mage/range" class) while the "stealthy climbing" class be renamed to Zephonim and look more insect like. Honestly the only screw up here is that they called the Dumahim "Turelim" and the Zephonim "Dumahim." Plus, they look nothing like the original.

Plus, I know everyone wants to play as the Razielim, but it is unnecessary to include them. It does not fit with the lore. Amy Hennig may have left room to work on the clan, but seeing as how they proceeded to Soul Reaver 2 and Defiance, and how Amy has no intention of returning, I would say that Razielim were wiped out as it was implied. That argument could have been credible if it wasn't ancient and stated before Defiance.

Vampmaster
30th Sep 2013, 13:23
That's where you've lost all credibility. Rahab specifically lurks in the water. Dumahim and Turelim never scaled walls. It was only ever the Zephonim that could. And Raziel gained the ability upon absorbing Zephon's soul. Why Kain could climb is probably because it is a raw skill that he learned over the years. Raziel on the other hand adapted by absorbing Zephon's soul. True all of the vampires have the potential to climb, but it wouldn't suit what their bodies are made for.

Doesn't it depend on the type of wall? I mean I can climb some walls as long as they have something to grip and I don't have Zephons/Spidermans abilities. LOL.

kain67raz34
22nd Nov 2013, 00:10
im gonna give it a try im a huge fan of the series so I have to at least try it before saying it will suck out of respect for the series.

kain67raz34
22nd Nov 2013, 00:19
oh come on the turelim ears don't need to be their trademark dumbo ears but at least make the ears bigger than a humans and yes the dumahim were not wall climbers zephonim were.

and im not a big fan of the human like appearance of the vampires kains vampires were way more devolved by the time raziel was thrown in the abyss.

and what about the time frame raziel was in limbo for at 500 years thats not a long time considering LOK standards.

Vampmaster
22nd Nov 2013, 08:25
All the vampires in this game can climb walls, just not stick to them like spiderman. You never see any of them climbing a wall where there's nothing to grip on to.

Humans in real life go rock climbing all the time without having the Zephonim climbing ability.

Edit: Sorry, I forgot I said that in an earlier post.

MrSeagull
22nd Nov 2013, 16:47
and im not a big fan of the human like appearance of the vampires kains vampires were way more devolved by the time raziel was thrown in the abyss.

and what about the time frame raziel was in limbo for at 500 years thats not a long time considering LOK standards.

This is what Raziel and Dumah looked like right before Raziel was cast into the Abyss; with the exception of the feet and hands, they still look roughly human.
http://static2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120710183837/legacyofkain/images/0/0e/SR1-Intro-067.png

After Raziel escaped the underworld, Dumah became this...

http://static4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100803190949/legacyofkain/images/1/19/SR1-Screenshot-Enemy-Boss-Dumah.jpg

Nosgoth, the game, is supposed to take place sometime between this, if I understand correctly.

Monkeythumbz
22nd Nov 2013, 17:03
Nosgoth, the game, is supposed to take place sometime between this, if I understand correctly.

Correct. Plus, Raziel was in the abyss for closer to 1000 years, going by the "A millennium, or a moment? (http://www.thelostworlds.net/SR1/An_Alternate_Introduction.html)" cut quote from the Elder God.

Azazel_reborn
17th Jan 2014, 05:12
Come on people. Play the game, level up, then customize your character with talon hands you're so fond of. I also read in one of the Razielim blogs that some of them were able to gain back some of their previous beauty after obtaining proper nourishment. LEVEL up or Pay for the good stuff! I don't think this game will launch without all of the LoK trademark desires.

Razaiim
17th Jan 2014, 17:27
or all of you complaining about the design of current vampires and deviating from LoK stuff:

#1 the playable faction of vampires are currently Fledgelings, and retained their human features do to being (relatively) young. I know some one will raise the point "but in SR1 the fledglings look like monsters too!" Yes. In SR1 centuries have passed since this game. The vampire race and society has change. Vampires are feasting on the long dead, and potentially starving, causing even the fledglings to decay rapidly.

#2 In the Razielim lore post, it explains why the razielimg devolved and mutated so quickly. The surviving members were locked in a cave for many years, and were forced to dig themselves out, and their only source of food was when one of them collapsed form the starvation. This hunger and feasting on tainted blood quickened their devolution into monsters. They might have still retained the human hands and feet due to Raziel being Kain's first-born. As such they may be more resilient to the decay and corruption, much as Melchiah was the most susceptible and was the last to be resurrected.

#3 I personally feel they nailed the design of Dumahim and Turelim. I also pictured the Dumahim Reavers as smaller, more precise warriors, and the Turelim making up for their lack of finesse with raw power. This is the vibe I got from each clan, this is the vibe that the design team seems to have stuck with... and MOST IMPORTANTLY... this is the vibe you get from playing each of them.

Next issue for you money-grabbing tin-foil hat theorists: There are more relevant franchises with wider fanbases to money grab. Ok? Ok.

Sluagh
17th Jan 2014, 21:10
Goodness me so people don't think an awful lot before their keyboard fingers get all indignant. Give the devs a break. In terms of lore there is nothing that has been really damaged. Is it possible that Dumahim could go from sneaky stealth climbers to snapping jackels? Of course it is under the right circumstances. Things in legacy of kain do change. Any point about cloven claws etc. yadayada can be answered by them being fledglings. If the devs portrayed adults or elders they surely would alter the claws. Maybe even the adult Turelim might look a bit more Turelim (pretty please). That's one thing that does seem a bit odd. But who knows,maybe some weirs environmental event makes them slimmer and more feral. For one: a whole lot less blood around? That tubby Nogoth era butt is going to need to trim down on slimmer SR era pickings.

RealLoK
22nd Jan 2014, 13:58
I'm pretty disappointed in Nosgoth... This is anything but the game I and most of the other LoK fans I know have waited for. And though I wouldn't insult the devs or anyone liking it, like a lot of fans seem to do, I can't help but to be proud of my fellow LoK fans... not for trashtalking, not for foul language, but for the dedication they show.
I don't condemn Nosgoth as a game. I do not deny that the gameplay might be fun, the characterdesign is pretty, and the atmosphere might be absolutely great. But it is great in it's own way, not the LoK way. I appreciate all of the hard work it took to make this game, but the sad truth is: It has nothing of what made LoK great. References to the lore can't replace the wonderful story that was what made Legacy of Kain truly special. Standing alone, Nosgoth is an awesome game, I'm sure, but seeing it from the eyes of a dedicated fan who loves LoK to the point of obsession... it just won't do.

Sataine
22nd Jan 2014, 14:51
I'm pretty disappointed in Nosgoth... This is anything but the game I and most of the other LoK fans I know have waited for. And though I wouldn't insult the devs or anyone liking it, like a lot of fans seem to do, I can't help but to be proud of my fellow LoK fans... not for trashtalking, not for foul language, but for the dedication they show.
I don't condemn Nosgoth as a game. I do not deny that the gameplay might be fun, the characterdesign is pretty, and the atmosphere might be absolutely great. But it is great in it's own way, not the LoK way. I appreciate all of the hard work it took to make this game, but the sad truth is: It has nothing of what made LoK great. References to the lore can't replace the wonderful story that was what made Legacy of Kain truly special. Standing alone, Nosgoth is an awesome game, I'm sure, but seeing it from the eyes of a dedicated fan who loves LoK to the point of obsession... it just won't do.

This is what I expect to feel should I get to test. But expecting this probably would soften the impact of it. To me stories on a blog or website are inefficient. Subtle nods in-game or interactive plaques on a wall that contain more lore would be wonderful. Or a tutorial going in-depth, and being voiced over, into the history of Nosgoth as it teaches you to play would be wonderful. Getting us up to speed on the events to that point. Or better yet, small cinematics (skippable) before each match begins delving more into the lore pertaining to the particular map that is being loaded.

And this new Siege mode gives me the sense of an even more fitting avenue to plop a bit of lore into.

I see all the heart of LoK in the game. I really do. All the care and design that went into it. I am merely not seeing the soul. Add that, and I think this would be a game to stand tall above others in its genre.

And maybe this post was more suited for the thread I started? Ah well. ;)

RealLoK
22nd Jan 2014, 15:10
This is what I expect to feel should I get to test. But expecting this probably would soften the impact of it. To me stories on a blog or website are inefficient. Subtle nods in-game or interactive plaques on a wall that contain more lore would be wonderful. Or a tutorial going in-depth, and being voiced over, into the history of Nosgoth as it teaches you to play would be wonderful. Getting us up to speed on the events to that point. Or better yet, small cinematics (skippable) before each match begins delving more into the lore pertaining to the particular map that is being loaded.

And this new Siege mode gives me the sense of an even more fitting avenue to plop a bit of lore into.

I see all the heart of LoK in the game. I really do. All the care and design that went into it. I am merely not seeing the soul. Add that, and I think this would be a game to stand tall above others in its genre.

And maybe this post was more suited for the thread I started? Ah well. ;)



Those are all wonderful ideas, things like this might just make me give Nosgoth a try. But the lore is not my biggest problem. LoK was always connected to a lot of emotions for me. I giggled when Kain killed Moebius, I cried my eyes out when Raziel was absorbed by the reaver, I felt awfully sorry for Kain and Umah because their would-be-relationship didn't work out. And boy, I was so extremely pissed when Sarafan-Raziel killed Janos. And this is something that just can't happen in a game like Nosgoth. Maybe I will have fun playing it, but that's all. No deeper emotions than mere fun (or fury when I get pwned....). The whole series got me glued to my screen for hours, and these matches just are no substitute for this kind of emotional involvement.

Sataine
22nd Jan 2014, 15:19
I agree. It is quite a departure. My biggest hope is that this game is successful and brings Nosgoth fans to look backward and play the Legacy of Kain series. See where their beloved game originated. And perhaps spur Square Enix to yield and provide us another top notch Legacy of Kain experience. Yet I also fear this game will become so popular and filled with the loathsome hardcore bunch that it will perpetuate and taint what Legacy of Kain was. Effectively preventing the series to continue while perpetuating a game type that is but a mere shadow of what Nosgoth could become.

RealLoK
22nd Jan 2014, 15:42
I have a lot of doubts about that... the majority of this new "fanbase" won't give a damn about the old LoK games, and if they do, it'll probably look something like this:

"WHAT tihs is nothin lik Nosgoth! CRAP!11!1!!!1!!" (and yes, the typos are intentional)

When they play Nosgoth first, instead of a real LoK, they won't appreciate LoK for being what it is, but hating it for not being like Nosgoth. That's what I fear.

I once said to one of my friends "I would see LoK rather dead than disgraced like this." Though I was probably exaggerating there... I would still probably sell the majority of my internal organs for a proper next LoK title... :nut:

Sataine
22nd Jan 2014, 15:47
I have a lot of doubts about that... the majority of this new "fanbase" won't give a damn about the old LoK games, and if they do, it'll probably look something like this:

"WHAT tihs is nothin lik Nosgoth! CRAP!11!1!!!1!!" (and yes, the typos are intentional)

When they play Nosgoth first, instead of a real LoK, they won't appreciate LoK for being what it is, but hating it for not being like Nosgoth. That's what I fear.

I once said to one of my friends "I would see LoK rather dead than disgraced like this." Though I was probably exaggerating there... I would still probably sell the majority of my internal organs for a proper next LoK title... :nut:

Maybe Nosgoth is designed to cater to them, but I sincerely hope we don't get the degenerative gamer class that takes games FAR too seriously. Alas, that is roughly 85% of the players out there these days. I can imagine by this time next year we shall have an abundance of elitists and hardcore gamers that will berate others for merely being new, not as skilled, or for not having enough time to play as often as they do. That phenomenon is increasingly present in games today and even more so in the online world.

Bazielim
22nd Jan 2014, 18:04
I have a lot of doubts about that... the majority of this new "fanbase" won't give a damn about the old LoK games, and if they do, it'll probably look something like this:

"WHAT tihs is nothin lik Nosgoth! CRAP!11!1!!!1!!" (and yes, the typos are intentional)

When they play Nosgoth first, instead of a real LoK, they won't appreciate LoK for being what it is, but hating it for not being like Nosgoth. That's what I fear.

I once said to one of my friends "I would see LoK rather dead than disgraced like this." Though I was probably exaggerating there... I would still probably sell the majority of my internal organs for a proper next LoK title... :nut:

Definitely exaggerating, but hey, that has become depressingly part and parcel of the initial first reactions that people have when they first find out LoK is returning and not Lok as they expected it. After a while, it seems that it sinks in a bit, people look into it, match it to the existing lore and play a bit and the hate disappears - I've seen that happen so many times now with so many "hate it" converts it's become amusing. All that remains is a small group of increasingly desperate guys that feel it necessary to actively misrepresent the whole series and try to actively kill the whole franchise dead because it might contradict their fan fictions :thud:

Nosgoth is far more likely to either lead people back to the old games or prove to Square-Enix that the series is indeed a viable property worth returning to (which it really hasn't been in a while - single player story game included in that). Whether you agree with the direction or not, Nosgoth is a good thing for the series because it demonstrates the viability and interest in LoK - they now know that there are in fact lots of people that still care about it (again something that was only the merest hints of a couple of years ago) and they have figures to show just how many people are interested. Before, all they could say was there was a small, very dedicated fan-base that didn't invest enough to make it worthwhile to produce games for, now we have the opportunity to change that perception.:D

Vampmaster
22nd Jan 2014, 18:21
I have a lot of doubts about that... the majority of this new "fanbase" won't give a damn about the old LoK games, and if they do, it'll probably look something like this:

"WHAT tihs is nothin lik Nosgoth! CRAP!11!1!!!1!!" (and yes, the typos are intentional)

When they play Nosgoth first, instead of a real LoK, they won't appreciate LoK for being what it is, but hating it for not being like Nosgoth. That's what I fear.

I once said to one of my friends "I would see LoK rather dead than disgraced like this." Though I was probably exaggerating there... I would still probably sell the majority of my internal organs for a proper next LoK title... :nut:

Ironically, that's exactly the sort of reaction some fans of the original games have had. Thankfully there's still plenty of us willing to give this alternate style of gameplay a shot even though it's not what we're used to.

Quite a few newcomers have pointed out how much they enjoy reading the stories in the blog, so I'm sure they'd be interested in a new story based single player game. I will say that the blog stories need showcasing a lot more. I think building them into the game itself as unlockables and having them read out by someone with an appropriate voice on youtube would go a long way towards that. Maybe a bit of rewording and sound effects and some art or environment tours in the background would be needed.

Razaiim
22nd Jan 2014, 18:46
First and foremost my favourite games have been the single player story type, LoK, The Darkness, Transformers Fall of Cybertron etc... How ever, the gaming market today no longer caters to it as heavily as it did back in 2003 (Defiance released). That is not to say there isn't a market for these, but it is much harder to achieve commercial success with this format, with the advent and prevalence of online gaming. Nosgoth is the only multiplayer-only game that I have committed more than an hour or so to. I enjoy reading the lore and backstory. The gameplay is unique in the mainstream gaming world, and in this regard, ambitious, and if it stays on it's current path, has enormous pay-off in the long term. I am hoping that with Nosgoth, future games can be set in the universe.

I always felt it would be highly inappropriate to call any additional games in the Nosgoth Legacy of Kain. The legacy has been lived out. Kain heralds the return of the Pillars to Vampire caretakers, Nupraptor's taint has been eliminated, and the Binding stands firm. The Elder God, while not vanquished, has had much of his influence shattered, and is surely cowering in some extra-planar crevice. The story has reached full circle, and is as complete as it ever could be. I will compare it to Halo here. Halo's main story is complete. The Halo array is deactivated, the Flood contained. The Covenant/Human war is over, disregarding the splinter faction in Halo 4. The new trilogy (4,5,6) are a new tale, set in the same universe, but built on the events of the prior trilogy (The relationship between Cortana and Chief). There are also the spin-off titles such as Reach which sets the stage for the Main Trilogy, and ODST/Halo wars, which take place during the war, but are alongside the main story, and do not affect it's outcome (Where Nosgoth sits right now).

What I am trying to get at, is that Nosgoth has such a rich universe, with so much unexplored and such a great amount of time between some events, that another story could be told. Could it involve Kain? It's Possible. Should it continue his Legacy? Doubtful I feel. His journey to change his nature, and remove a taint since his birth, and restore Balance and Nosgoth, is his true legacy, and it is complete.

Ideas: The war between the Ancient Races. Yes we all know how it ends (same with Halo Reach). But would it not fit Nosgoth to show the struggle that drew the Ancient and "noble" vampires to such desperation to banish the Hylden from their homeland, or cast a new light on events, and view them in away that hasn't been explored, to maintain the ambiguity of who's cause was right and just (can't remember the Hylden Lord's exact quote)? Or a tale that shows how the War for Nosgoth we are currently experiencing in the game ended, and how it was that the numbers of both humans and vampires throughout the land were so decimated, their species could barely continue in the Soul Reaver Era. What drove Raziel's "High-born kin" to the depraved depths we see in that era, beyond their devolution, as we see his brothers are still stupidly proud and vain, they must have been driven to the lowest of the low somehow.

Monkeythumbz
22nd Jan 2014, 18:54
Quite a few newcomers have pointed out how much they enjoy reading the stories in the blog, so I'm sure they'd be interested in a new story based single player game. I will say that the blog stories need showcasing a lot more. I think building them into the game itself as unlockables and having them read out by someone with an appropriate voice on youtube would go a long way towards that. Maybe a bit of rewording and sound effects and some art or environment tours in the background would be needed.

I like this idea!

...but then again I would, wouldn't I? ;)

Vampmaster
22nd Jan 2014, 19:10
I like this idea!

...but then again I would, wouldn't I? ;)

Well there are still a lot of people who haven't noticed them saying the lack of story is a reason they're not interested in this game and any newcomers who don't know about the blog might not find out about the story from the previous games either, which they would need to in order to build interest for a single player game.

shinros
22nd Jan 2014, 23:35
If you somehow get kain's voice actor to voice the lore blogs I will jump with joy, not sure if its possible though.

Sataine
23rd Jan 2014, 15:20
If you somehow get kain's voice actor to voice the lore blogs I will jump with joy, not sure if its possible though.


Oh yes. Having Simon Templeman would be fantastic.