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ragnarokvr1
28th Sep 2013, 01:27
I don't understand, you're taking a beautiful single player story driven game and turning it into a generic lore mash up a la World of Warcraft where we do "raids" and "pvp" and whatever?

LOK is the story of Kain and Raziel, not some random generic MMO class or whatever running around doing quests for gear and xp or whatever.

This is like turning Mass Effect into an MMO, and we all know how well that turned out with The Old Republic instead of making KOTOR 3.WoW's lore has gone to hell too and Elder Scrolls Online is probably next.

Why do you people do these things? We WANTED a single player sequel, you truly believe the world wants another freaking MMO, especially one of a world that's worked so well in the past as a single player experience?

You're just taking a name and using it to get some hype, this is just sad.

Swagraven
28th Sep 2013, 04:34
1. It's not an MMO.
2. If you can't keep an open mind about it, you'll never see the potential in it.
3. Personal feelings about the game aside, I find it particularly rude that you assume you know that they're " just taking a name and using it to get some hype." Plus, if they wanted to do that, they wouldn't have picked LoK. Even though it's popular, we're a niche audience, if we're honest here.
4. How dare you tell someone else what kind of creative endeavor they can embark on? You wouldn't tell Stephen King that he sucks for not writing a sequel to IT, would you? It doesn't matter how much you wanted something, and how disappointed you are, if you're going to act rude like this I'm just going to assume you aren't even old enough to play LoK.
5. I suggest you read up on what people who have actually played a bit of the game are saying before you pass judgement on it.
Here's a thread with links so you can see more of what Nosgoth is all about.
http://forums.eu.square-enix.com/showthread.php?t=7189

We know you're upset, but please be civil, and think before you post. There's actually a lot going on for this game to be excited about, and I think once you learn a little more you'll agree with the majority of the fans on this site.

Moesph
28th Sep 2013, 06:38
Also WoW was kicked out of eSports, so it would be a disastrous model to follow for a game intending to get in on that action.

ragnarokvr1
28th Sep 2013, 12:43
If I wasn't old enough to play LOK why would I give a damn about this game?

Don't talk to me like I'm supposed to be ashamed of what I write, I'm a fan of the series and like many series these days they're going to **** because developers decide to jump on some new money making bandwagon instead of staying true to the roots. There was a LOK game in development, and the cancelled it, for a "F2P" game (read: insert as many micro transactions as possible for $$$$) WHY?

The_Hylden
28th Sep 2013, 17:38
ragnarokvr1 and Swagraven, please try and play nice. This new venture is not going to be readily accepted by fans and opinions will run hot. We don't need to be at each others' throat for either way our opinions swing on Nosgoth's direction.

Swagraven
29th Sep 2013, 09:13
I didn't mean for any of that to sound anything more than mildly chiding, so my apologies if it came off worse.
I type the way I speak, and I tend to forget infliction has a lot to do with the peace being kept around me. :whistle:

dxluv1
29th Sep 2013, 12:58
Think of it as extended media, and interacting with the franchise and universe in a different way.

Vanyelxp5
29th Sep 2013, 13:57
@OP

Are you aware that this was originally going to be a multiplayer addon to a single player sequel to Defiance?

Are you aware that there is nothing WoW-like about this game? (really, just from the announcement trailer you can see that.)

Are you aware that in giving us this game they could be testing interest in the IP in order to determine if a sequel to Defiance would be worth making financially?

[redacted]

LiKrySo
29th Sep 2013, 14:47
Legacy of Kain: DARK PROPHECY was the Defiance sequel.
Legacy of Kain: DEAD SUN was the latest project that had the multiplayer part and it was supposed to take place after Soul Reaver 1. It was cancelled last year.

So far there are no plotholes in Nosgoth since Amy AND Kain are both vague in what happens after Raziel is thrown into the abyss, Nosgoth's dev team just filled the holes, most of the problems are with the vampires that don't look like LoK vampires and they can and should be fixed since this game is still in Beta.

Ghostny
29th Sep 2013, 14:59
its good that they branch off instead of milk the series in the same way till its dry they have a great lore witch allows for flexibility of the type of games they can release. so why patronize them on a discussion as if it closes the door for a single player LOK. If you enjoyed the series then trust in the choice of the team that they know how to make good games.

Driber
29th Sep 2013, 17:57
SES banned.

Vanyelxp5, you earned an infraction for insulting language towards another forum member after my colleague warned people to mind the TOU. I have zero tolerance for flaming other members for voicing their opinion. Everyone is free to be critical of the game if they want to and should not have to fear being attacked for voicing that.

Now, let's keep it constructive, folks.

Wraithblade6
29th Sep 2013, 20:43
I think we should avoid e-sports. Sure there's a ton of money in it, but you know we're just going to have Koreans take over, and they probably don't care about LoK in the least. Who are you catering to? I wouldn't expect the USA to suddenly change it's cultural views on gaming.

AlterRequiem
29th Sep 2013, 21:14
^ Wow thats tough not to reply to. In my opinion, whatever makes this game successful should happen. No one new will play a single player story driven game. If you make something that caters to different genres, it can spark interest in the series in a whole new generation of gamers. Only then, if youre lucky, you'll get the type of game that you want. Until then you have to put your faith in the company thats trying balance "maximize profits" with "staying loyal to roots". I approve of just about everything in this game. CANNOT WAIT to play it.

Wraithblade6
29th Sep 2013, 22:15
IMO the days of single-player games are over.

How many of us out there would still have jobs if our employers knew that we wanted a week off in the middle of August so we could do heroic progression for top-US rank?

Just sayin'.

Vanyelxp5
29th Sep 2013, 22:26
I would! But I never take time off... At all... three years at the same job, and I've only requested a specific day off once. (I also don't often get my scheduled day off... So if I do request time, I usually get it.)

AlterRequiem
29th Sep 2013, 23:52
Same here, I'm capped on vacation hours, lol.

Wraithblade6
30th Sep 2013, 06:29
Anyway, for the rest of us who have to don a mask for our nighttime adventures, we're not likely to be able to get involved enough to compete in a true e-sport. ... and I'm sure there's an inherent conflict between sport and story.

LOFO1993
30th Sep 2013, 21:00
From what I understand, this is the situation.

Games are made to make a profit. Of course they are made by passionate people who most of the times care about what they do, but no one ever wants to produce a game that will cost him more money than him will make on it.

Legacy of Kain "fans" are... 600'000? 700'000? I wouldn't dare to say there are more than that if I look at the past games sales, but let's just say they are 1 million and that every single one of them is still interested in the series. Making now a triple A game that continues the story from where Defiance left it would mean targeting ONLY 1 million people in the best possible outcome. Which means almost suicide.


Let's say than that they could try making a completely new single player game, with new characters and a new story and only the brand name attached to it (as Dead Sun was). Let's cut out part of the old fan-base, those who will not accept the game for what it has become. 1 million turns then to 750'000/500'000. Let's add 1 million from completely new players (which is still quite a big figure for a single player driven game that also looks so unique and original). 1.5 millions sales in the best scenario possible; still quite a risk for a huge full-budget game.


The third option is what we have here: a "low-cost" game that can do little harm to the company if it utterly fails but that could on the other side "prepare" more people who never knew the original games for the coming of a new one. Let's say that in time Nosgoth will attract 150'000 completely new players. No money lost; 150'000 new fans potentially awaiting for a new Legacy of Kain. Maybe someone will be curious about the past chapters and will look for and play them, and then talk about the saga to their friends and on the internet. Still, no real harm done and just more people involved.



This game is the less risky attempt Square Enix could ever take. Games are made for the public, and the public this saga has right now is simply not big enough. It's either this or a very risky game that could easily disappoint both the fans and the new customers and then really nail the coffin for the next 10 years more.


Don't get me wrong; if this game turns out to be a pay-to-win abomination I won't defend it. But hating it for just existing makes zero sense, if you ever want the saga to continue in any possible way in the future.

mrslig100
2nd Oct 2013, 12:41
This game is the less risky attempt Square Enix could ever take
Who cares if its a risk for square enix?
Their worth well over £100 million at least.
They could 10 games in a row that are a total flop and not even feel a slight dip in there pockets!
from the people who bought us the final fantasy titles?
If they wanted to they could easy release a good Legacy of Kain game but they are a company.
Games shouldn't be fun.
They should make us money.
And we know what sells.
We've seen it...
http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/f/f5/Towering_Pillar_of_Hats.png/250px-Towering_Pillar_of_Hats.png?t=20111215143440
(And this forum needs a preview button).

Raziel_of_Nosgoth
3rd Oct 2013, 16:43
Psyonix said since the beginning that it wasn't gonna be a traditional Legacy of Kain title. Its called Nosgoth, Not Legacy of Kain & It's FREE.

lordbane2110
3rd Oct 2013, 16:55
Personally I would like a game in the LoK series that you could make your own character to live in that world, and as long as they adjust the vampires to actually look closer to the lineage of there parents I wouldn't mind

but at the moment the dumahrim look nothing like how they are supposed to be, there supposed to be hunched and stocky, the tureliem are to heavy set and need the distinctive ears of turel himself and the razieliem really need to be looked at raziels line had the greatest of Kain's gift, they should look regal, with Bat like Wings an air of aristocracy about them

plus for it really to be a LoK game there should also be the Rotting Melchirium, The Aquatic Rahabium, and the spiderlike Zephonium, plus maybe some guest appearences by should characters like Vorador for the vampire side and Mobius for the Humans

If done well i do believe it could be a nice addition to the LoK Lore

CountEyokir
3rd Oct 2013, 16:57
Psyonix said since the beginning that it wasn't gonna be a traditional Legacy of Kain title. Its called Nosgoth, Not Legacy of Kain & It's FREE.

To expect that won't make a massive profit on Nosgoth anyway, considering they cancelled Dead sun because they didn't think they'd get enough back from it, is absurd.

The_Hylden
3rd Oct 2013, 16:58
Complete bunk, mrslig100. If their games do not make money, the developers do not make their money back, nor do the marketers, distributors, and no more developer. SE would go bankrupt and no more games, period.

You think because a corporation exists that it has money to spare and is simply just greedy to not do so, which means not to cater to your wishes. That's simply your biased and selfish position, not reality.

Companies do exist to make money, lest they no longer be in existence anymore. They employ hundreds of employees, who all wish to continue receiving their paycheck, their piece of mind, and their family's piece of mind. We all want a continuation of the story, but most of us are level-headed enough to realize calling the company out for being greedy and cold-hearted is not the way to get it done. It's unfair to them, and unfair to the rest of the fanbase to represent it in such a way. There are always greedy people, and they reside in the top of business and corporations, or in the common blue collar man (or woman). No group of people is exempt from this flaw.

CountEyokir
3rd Oct 2013, 17:00
Complete bunk, mrslig100. If their games do not make money, the developers do not make their money back, nor do the marketers, distributors, and no more developer. SE would go bankrupt and no more games, period.

You think because a corporation exists that it has money to spare and is simply just greedy to not do so, which means not to cater to your wishes. That's simply your biased and selfish position, not reality.

Companies do exist to make money, lest they no longer be in existence anymore. They employ hundreds of employees, who all wish to continue receiving their paycheck, their piece of mind, and their family's piece of mind. We all want a continuation of the story, but most of us are level-headed enough to realize calling the company out for being greedy and cold-hearted is not the way to get it done. It's unfair to them, and unfair to the rest of the fanbase to represent it in such a way. There are always greedy people, and they reside in the top of business and corporations, or in the common blue collar man (or woman). No group of people is exempt from this flaw.

I'm not quite sure what your point was there in context of he said

CountEyokir
3rd Oct 2013, 17:05
Their expectations which Dead sun failed to meet were set too high

LiKrySo
3rd Oct 2013, 17:19
Just to clear things up, this is from the Nosgoth's EULA (http://store.steampowered.com/eula/200110_eula_0) (Available for everyone in the SteamDB's Nosgoth page (http://steamdb.info/app/200110/#section_info))


5. Gold, Rune Stones AND EXPERIENCE
NOSGOTH contains an in-game points based system operated by SQUARE ENIX where users can earn virtual gold (“Gold”) through Game-play or purchase Rune Stones which can only be redeemed by Users for certain in-game virtual assets including but not limited to; avatar enhancements and any virtual items displayed within the in-game catalogue (“Game Catalogue”).
5.1 Earning Gold. Users can earn Gold by various methods including but not limited to; completing a multiplayer match as a daily reward for logging into their Square Enix Membership Account or completing challenges set by the NOSGOTH community team. The type and amount of Gold awarded for any user activity shall be at the sole discretion of SQUARE ENIX and subject to change without notice from time to time.
5.2 Purchasing Rune Stones. Users may purchase Rune Stones in-game from the in-game store. Rune Stones purchased are subject to the limitations specified in Clause 2.2 of this User Agreement. Rune Stones that are given to Users for free as a result of promotion, gift, award or other offer by SQUARE ENIX (“Gift Rune Stones”) may expire at whatever date given by SQUARE ENIX in connection with the relevant promotion, gift, award or offer and such expiry date shall be at least fourteen (14) days from the date that the Gift Rune Stones are given to Users.

Everyone in Eidos/The forum/Square Enix already explained Nosgoth won't be Pay-2-Win so these "Avatar Enhancements" must be aesthetical.
So yes, Nosgoth has a way to pay all the days/months/years of work and make some profit for the company and we get our vampire vs. human war without the danger of "that rich guy" calling a tactical razielim nuke :lol:

Anselan
5th Oct 2013, 00:28
I don't understand, you're taking a beautiful single player story driven game and turning it into a generic lore mash up a la World of Warcraft where we do "raids" and "pvp" and whatever?.

Do you not find it a viable use of resources to explore a point in time in the world where those characters we know aren't there?

There has been a lot of talk about the Lieutenants, and they're really what's left of the characters. We're in those transitional years from the opening cut scene of SR 1 to the actual gameplay.

Don't think of it as deluding the series, think of it as an interactive visual guide to the Human Vampire wars that leads to the eventual genocide of Nosgoth's humanity.

Alhazredd
5th Oct 2013, 00:34
I don't understand, you're taking a beautiful single player story driven game and turning it into a generic lore mash up a la World of Warcraft where we do "raids" and "pvp" and whatever?

LOK is the story of Kain and Raziel, not some random generic MMO class or whatever running around doing quests for gear and xp or whatever.

This is like turning Mass Effect into an MMO, and we all know how well that turned out with The Old Republic instead of making KOTOR 3.WoW's lore has gone to hell too and Elder Scrolls Online is probably next.

Why do you people do these things? We WANTED a single player sequel, you truly believe the world wants another freaking MMO, especially one of a world that's worked so well in the past as a single player experience?

You're just taking a name and using it to get some hype, this is just sad.

[redacted]

Driber
6th Oct 2013, 08:05
Alhazredd, that lovely comment just earned you an infraction. Remember next time forum rule #6 (http://forums.eu.square-enix.com/announcement.php?a=1#rule6) - treat other members and their opinions with respect.

BTW, I don't get why you even wrote that in the first place, as the poster seems to be on your side anyway -_-

Alhazredd
6th Oct 2013, 14:34
Alhazredd, that lovely comment just earned you an infraction. Remember next time forum rule #6 (http://forums.eu.square-enix.com/announcement.php?a=1#rule6) - treat other members and their opinions with respect.

BTW, I don't get why you even wrote that in the first place, as the poster seems to be on your side anyway -_-

What are you even talking about? How was I not treating him with respect? "BTW, I don't get why you even wrote that in the first place, as the poster seems to be on your side anyway -_-" that would be the joke genius, I was being facetious. I mean seriously, it was blatantly obvious I wasn't serious, honestly right now I'm trying to figure out if this is some sort of counter joke you're making or if you legitimately thought I was mocking that person, It would HAVE to be a joke because in no way was "sorry pal unless you're mindlessly liking what these devs do you can't post" is mocking and I don't see how in this world we live in this could be interpreted as anything other then a sarcastic comment. So kudos Driber you got me, this was a really funny joke and I commend you

Driber
6th Oct 2013, 15:10
Mocking everyone who doesn't share your hate for the game by portraying them as some dev fanboys... yeah, real respectful.


that would be the joke genius

And that just earned you a ban.

http://driber.net/os/see-ya-pal.jpg

AlterRequiem
7th Oct 2013, 07:32
hahaahahaha that image.

fatihy35
7th Oct 2013, 07:57
i really stop thinking of what they are doing with LoK. I just expect they earn much money and keep up making new game of the series. Yes, what they have done to LoK is not fair... that's really hurts. Now, more than 10 years we have been waiting for new game. What a shame and disappointment is this. There are so many needless games around game world but they are ignoring this legendary series. Anyway, i hope they will earn money and we will be regained with our series. Now on, there is no point to complain for same things again and again. I am bored and i am sure everyone bored about it. Keep up supporting it people, there is no otherway against this recklessness. We gonna keep running after our dream....

ZeroFernir
7th Oct 2013, 12:23
I think we should avoid e-sports. Sure there's a ton of money in it, but you know we're just going to have Koreans take over, and they probably don't care about LoK in the least. Who are you catering to? I wouldn't expect the USA to suddenly change it's cultural views on gaming.


I really expect to get in international leages for nosgoth. It would be really cool and, as I went to brazilian leagues in two different games, think I should evolve a little in this one =D


Mocking everyone who doesn't share your hate for the game by portraying them as some dev fanboys... yeah, real respectful.



And that just earned you a ban.

http://driber.net/os/see-ya-pal.jpg

LoL that image! =P

Liquid_speaker
21st Nov 2013, 06:09
After a decade of nothing but Tomb Raider skins, I'm glad to see anything that could get another first person game out.

lordbane2110
21st Nov 2013, 10:35
It's a shame, there are so many haters out there, can't people see this for at least a springboard game.

yes we all want a new LoK adventure / platformer, and should nosgoth do well, then we may just get that game (crosses fingers)

kain67raz34
22nd Nov 2013, 23:53
It's a shame, there are so many haters out there, can't people see this for at least a springboard game.

yes we all want a new LoK adventure / platformer, and should nosgoth do well, then we may just get that game (crosses fingers)

ya ill admit I was very angry at first but as a fan of LOK its my duty to test it and see if its good if it is good woohoo the series lives. if it is bad then lets say the spectral realm says hi lol.

Liquid_speaker
23rd Nov 2013, 04:08
To be honest, I wouldn't think that it would really come down to whether or not the game was high quality (and I'm aware the devs are doing as much as they can to make it so) but whether or not people play it and how much profit it brings in. With how some LoK players are talking, the series could permanently tank with good games some just aren't willing to accept.

Richelieu
28th Nov 2013, 02:02
Hello! Welcome to everyone!
I am a long time LoK fan. To a certain extent I had given up hope of seeing another LoK game so seeing this suddenly appear on the Steam "Coming Soon" list was a pleasant surprise.

I had to wait half an hour before posting this because to say my initial reaction was "not favourable" is putting it mildly. I am aware that what I say next is highly fueled by my personal Bias. I will state these now so that they are clear.

I do not like arena deathmatch games, and I don't like Competitive games. (or rather I get far too frustrated by them far too easily)

Not knowing enough about the inner workings of the game, I can only go by the trailer. Please be aware these are only my first impressions.

Watching the trailer, it looks very pretty, as it should do. Of course it's Nosgoth, the setting of one of my favourite franchises ever.

But instinctively I feel that Nosgoth is arriving late to the party: Chivalry: Medieval Warfare has done the brutal close combat thing; Renaissance Heroes has the gothic steampunk deathmatch down; and Warframe has the co-operative mission based combat with crazy powers and weapons.

The game as it stands looks very deathmatch-esque and it feels like a closed box. There is no real scope for change within this model. It is a pity for such a rich source like LoK to have "Pick an arena and fight in it." I appreciate I may have misheard in the trailer, but I thought I heard "exploration of the lore" but I don't see how much exploration of the lore can be done by the player in-game, and as a deathmatch-esque game, I can quite easily see the lore being an excuse to have humans and vampires take part in a headbutting contest.

Having said all that, I do see some potential within the game.

A simple Nosgoth map feature with different banners for various regions to show which side was in control would be a nice visual feature which would not ultimately change the nature of the Arena based combat. A random flashpoint system which could also include objectives on the maps could add additional experience for playing them but also change the rules from simply kill all... For example: The Ziegsturl map is normally a slay all.. but if it flashpoints it becomes a "capture the flag" with players trying to defend/destroy a supply caravan.

The fighting in iconic locations has already been mentioned in the FAQ. I dearly hope the locations have more to them than being graphical reproductions: For example, Avernus Cathedral The humans have to stop the vampires killing all the machinists, before time runs out, the humans win if the timer counts to zero and enough machinists are alive to activate the Great Bells (or whatever it is in SR1). The vampires win if enough machinists are dead.

Perhaps in Malek's fortress you could have take and holds where holding various points around the map spawn a certain number of Soulless Warriors to fight for your team.

Would there be "time locked arenas"? in the original LoK game, secret dungeons and locations only opened at "full moon". Notably, most of the Spirit Forges and Blood Fountains. I can see these being part of the game if a generic global time cycle was implemented on the map screen (but it would need to be quite slow, to give each country a chance to play the locked arenas)

I would also like small lore tidbits maybe books or vampiric plaques to read (or even saraphan), that drop tiny hints about things that happened.

I am certain many of these ideas have been discussed by the design team.
Thank you for your time, and although this may not be the LoK game I was hoping for, due to my personal biases, I really hope that it is successful in the market niche you have chosen.

Monkeythumbz
28th Nov 2013, 10:07
I would also like small lore tidbits maybe books or vampiric plaques to read (or even saraphan), that drop tiny hints about things that happened.

If you head over to our official blog (link at the top of this page), you'll be able to find a number of story posts we've published, detailing the background history and secret origins of the various events and factions that make up this era on Nosgoth's timeline.

Paradoks_db
28th Nov 2013, 10:27
Also WoW was kicked out of eSports, so it would be a disastrous model to follow for a game intending to get in on that action.
WoW was never a part of eSports (unlike Warcraft 3 which is still a part of WCG).

lordbane2110
28th Nov 2013, 11:14
Yeah and warcraft 3 is still dominated by most of Korea, much like starcraft 2

Badmojoman
9th Dec 2013, 07:38
The reason I suspect this game is currently being made is just an circumstantial row of events.

SquareEnix probably had 2 studios to develop 1 game. Crystal Dynamics for the single player and Psyonix develop the multiplayer portion - which is pretty standard for games. Something obviously happened to the single player development and it was cancelled. But Psyonix is still stuck with the contract for the multiplayer.

Now obviously the developers know that LOK is a single player franchise, you would have to be retarded to think otherwise if you knew anything about LOK. However since they are stuck in development limbo so to speak, then they are making the best of the situation.

We as a community can help make this a better game or we can whine until it gets cancelled. In the event it turns out to be a good game then we are likely going to see Square Enix invest more in the franchise. If it turns out to be ****, then we are likely not going to see any LOK games in development for a long time.

I personally would choose to have a single player, but I'll be damned if I don't do my best to support this game. Failure to do so could potentially result in the death of the franchise. So I want this game to be as good as it can possibly be!

Monkeythumbz
9th Dec 2013, 12:50
The reason I suspect this game is currently being made is just an circumstantial row of events.

SquareEnix probably had 2 studios to develop 1 game. Crystal Dynamics for the single player and Psyonix develop the multiplayer portion - which is pretty standard for games. Something obviously happened to the single player development and it was cancelled. But Psyonix is still stuck with the contract for the multiplayer.

Now obviously the developers know that LOK is a single player franchise, you would have to be retarded to think otherwise if you knew anything about LOK. However since they are stuck in development limbo so to speak, then they are making the best of the situation.

We as a community can help make this a better game or we can whine until it gets cancelled. In the event it turns out to be a good game then we are likely going to see Square Enix invest more in the franchise. If it turns out to be ****, then we are likely not going to see any LOK games in development for a long time.

I personally would choose to have a single player, but I'll be damned if I don't do my best to support this game. Failure to do so could potentially result in the death of the franchise. So I want this game to be as good as it can possibly be!

You might like to read this: http://legacyofkain.net/ :)

Sluagh
9th Dec 2013, 23:29
The reason I suspect this game is currently being made is just an circumstantial row of events.

SquareEnix probably had 2 studios to develop 1 game. Crystal Dynamics for the single player and Psyonix develop the multiplayer portion - which is pretty standard for games. Something obviously happened to the single player development and it was cancelled. But Psyonix is still stuck with the contract for the multiplayer.

Now obviously the developers know that LOK is a single player franchise, you would have to be retarded to think otherwise if you knew anything about LOK. However since they are stuck in development limbo so to speak, then they are making the best of the situation.

We as a community can help make this a better game or we can whine until it gets cancelled. In the event it turns out to be a good game then we are likely going to see Square Enix invest more in the franchise. If it turns out to be ****, then we are likely not going to see any LOK games in development for a long time.

I personally would choose to have a single player, but I'll be damned if I don't do my best to support this game. Failure to do so could potentially result in the death of the franchise. So I want this game to be as good as it can possibly be!

Good point, well made. And as the link that Monkeythumbz posted says, a new installment a la Kain etc. would probably not work out. This is a good project, that may act as a prelude to something else more narrative driven. It is also an opportunity to explore, carefully mind, the background to the world of Nosgoth after the first paradox, so we should embrace it, as it is an interesting period
and doesn't have huge rammifications - if done well - on the main story.

airfire
10th Dec 2013, 04:33
....you seem to misunderstand, no one is the same in their ideals... Everyone has different thoughts, different emotions. If you cannot see this, you are truly a spoiled brat no matter how old u are.

KemetBrotha17
10th Dec 2013, 09:13
GOD I wish I could like this post. I respect you so much.

Thylbanus
12th Dec 2013, 11:39
1. It's not an MMO.
2. If you can't keep an open mind about it, you'll never see the potential in it.
3. Personal feelings about the game aside, I find it particularly rude that you assume you know that they're " just taking a name and using it to get some hype." Plus, if they wanted to do that, they wouldn't have picked LoK. Even though it's popular, we're a niche audience, if we're honest here.
4. How dare you tell someone else what kind of creative endeavor they can embark on? You wouldn't tell Stephen King that he sucks for not writing a sequel to IT, would you? It doesn't matter how much you wanted something, and how disappointed you are, if you're going to act rude like this I'm just going to assume you aren't even old enough to play LoK.
5. I suggest you read up on what people who have actually played a bit of the game are saying before you pass judgement on it.
Here's a thread with links so you can see more of what Nosgoth is all about.
http://forums.eu.square-enix.com/showthread.php?t=7189

We know you're upset, but please be civil, and think before you post. There's actually a lot going on for this game to be excited about, and I think once you learn a little more you'll agree with the majority of the fans on this site.
Well I have to point out a few things,
1. It IS an MMO
Massively Multiplayer Online. Just as this link HERE (http://legacyofkain.net/) states.
2. WELL SAID. I think that people hopping on the bandwagon or trying to tip the cart are just making judgments WAY too early.
3. I can agree that LoK is a niche group.
4. Not touching it.
5. Nor this. :whistle:

IMO the days of single-player games are over.

How many of us out there would still have jobs if our employers knew that we wanted a week off in the middle of August so we could do heroic progression for top-US rank?

Just sayin'.
I have to agree, single player games are heading to the dinosaur pile, but I'm going to have to say that it is still a LONG way off. I mean, there are still arcades. Is there anyone on here 20 or younger on here that has played a stand up arcade game? I thought that pinball machines were done, but a new company opened this year that is making new pinball machines with LCD backboards.

You COULD tell you boss that, and it will probably remind him of the time he skipped work to play in a bar darts tournament. We ALL skip out on work for some sort of competitive entertainment. It's just the entertainment that changes. I'll bet that there were a few Roman Legates that snuck away to compete in an unsactioned chariot race.

Complete bunk, mrslig100. If their games do not make money, the developers do not make their money back, nor do the marketers, distributors, and no more developer. SE would go bankrupt and no more games, period.

You think because a corporation exists that it has money to spare and is simply just greedy to not do so, which means not to cater to your wishes. That's simply your biased and selfish position, not reality.

Companies do exist to make money, lest they no longer be in existence anymore. They employ hundreds of employees, who all wish to continue receiving their paycheck, their piece of mind, and their family's piece of mind. We all want a continuation of the story, but most of us are level-headed enough to realize calling the company out for being greedy and cold-hearted is not the way to get it done. It's unfair to them, and unfair to the rest of the fanbase to represent it in such a way. There are always greedy people, and they reside in the top of business and corporations, or in the common blue collar man (or woman). No group of people is exempt from this flaw.
I've always had a problem with that mentality as well. You are quite correct in what you state here. Are companies greedy? YES. Why? Because PEOPLE are greedy. Corporate hatred is just an outcropping of the feeling of helplessness that is creeping into society. How many, at one time beloved, but eventually despised Lead Developers has left the industry because of the hatred and bile thrown at them (and yes, some have even received death threats)? It's easier to heap the hatred at a faceless company logo than to look in a person's eyes and do it. The anonymity of the internet actually encourages it.

Just hug it out. :group_hug:

KingOfNosgoth
21st Dec 2013, 23:54
I quite understand your point, Nosgoth could be a testing of the waters for a singleplayer story-based sequal. I quite agree. However, while I support the possibility and hope of your view being correct, that I feel that Square Enix have gone about it the wrong way. By cutting the singleplayer aspect of the game and only putting this out, they are being cold-hard money ruthless profit-first etc where they have released Nosgoth without being open about any possible future intention of a single player installment whose release is subject to the former's success. I feel that if they had put this out openly stating the subsequent possibility in the works, we would be wholeheartedly jumping on to support it in every way. But what we don't support, what we are against isn't Nosgoth the title per-se, but the way they have gone about it; the absence of any apparent listening to fans, of any clearly signposted hope in the future of such a single player story title for the future. They are saying (even if they are not meaning) "this is all we will give you as this is all we cost-analyse will make us profit". If they had said "Nosgoth now, and as we hear you all, a potential singleplayer story based game later", we would be saying "GREAT!!" Thats my point. its not Nosgoth we are angry about. its Squares lack of listening, or any evidence that they are listening to anything but their analysis of profits. If they saw the value in at least transparent and open conversation, evidence of listening and valuing our wishes and views, as well as their profit margins, we would be supporting them and this Nosgoth game.

RainaAudron
22nd Dec 2013, 00:16
"If they had said "Nosgoth now, and as we hear you all, a potential singleplayer story based game later", we would be saying "GREAT!!"

But they said they would love to do that... I think George mentioned it in the Q&A.

Lord_Aevum
22nd Dec 2013, 00:41
Yes indeed (http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=83819811&postcount=394):


Firstly, I'm not actually sure that Nosgoth's success is directly tied to the chance of another SP entry in the series. We love the IP and know that it resonates well, so even if Nosgoth was a total flop there's still a chance we'd want to create a single-player LoK experience sometime down the line.

That said, Nosgoth being successful would only help, as hopefully it would expose the IP to new people and make them interested in future titles.

Either way, I am *just* a CM. So I could be talking out of my arse here. Please bear that in mind.

KingOfNosgoth
22nd Dec 2013, 03:14
Thanks, that is quite helpful to know. I might even start feeling a bit hopeful about a new single player episode yet...:-)

Tiego87
2nd Jan 2014, 18:03
Although this is not what I wanted for the next LoK title, I am over the moon that the series has not been forgotten about. It's been ten years since Defiance and I'd nigh but given up hope of another installment after so many cancellations. I really hope that Nosgoth injects a little potential into a fresh, perhaps rebooted, future into the series. However, the MMO Multiplayer thing isn't exactly for me. I'd be more than happy to play it, being free and all and a LoK game, but PC gaming isn't something I've invested in. Laptop would probably die if I tried it. Any chance of a PS3 release later down the line?

Lord_Aevum
2nd Jan 2014, 19:13
It's been ten years since Defiance and I'd nigh but given up hope of another installment after so many cancellations.

What do you mean by "so many cancellations"? There was only one cancelled game between Defiance and Dead Sun. And we didn't even hear about Dead Sun until after Nosgoth was announced.

Tiego87
2nd Jan 2014, 19:28
Let's not forget Dark Prophecy, a game that had Blood Omen 2 Kain interact with Soul Reaver Kain. Apparently there were a few others but they escape me.

Lord_Aevum
2nd Jan 2014, 19:42
Well, let's not forget Dark Prophecy, as in, "there was one cancelled game between Defiance and Dead Sun". Let's not forget it, as if one could after writing multiple articles on it.

But people are making a caricature out of Divine Shadow's hard work lately, as if they just skimmed the headline and somehow think this series has had more scrapped games than the human brain can fathom. It's completely invalid. Legacy of Kain has had three known cancelled projects: Kain II, Dark Prophecy and Dead Sun. Isn't that bad enough without trying to inflate the number? :p

Tiego87
2nd Jan 2014, 20:49
Forgive my exacerbation, but I meant that there have been quite a few ideas knocked off the band wagon of LoK throughout the years. But if you want to be particular about it then you have the titles in a nut shell. I didn't mean to prey on any pet peeve.

biribobili
3rd Jan 2014, 17:47
Personally I am looking forward to this game, though there are some things that feel strange to me.

1. The playable races are not very appealing imo. Humans have never been presented in a positive light in the LoK universe. They were shown to be either fanatical maniacs or pathetic weaklings, depending on the era. On the other hand, the vampires are the devolved offspring of Dumah, Tyrel and Raziel. Kain abandoned all of them, and IIRC even Raziel pitied them before slaughtering them to get top Kain.

2. The game takes place in a dead timeline and it feels kind of futile. This era in the game is replaced after Defiance.

It would have been nice to play in the BO2 era, if there was some kind of "window" in the lore to allow small scale skirmishes between Vorador's vampires and the Hylden. I find the Hylden sympathetic, since they were kinda screwed over by the ancient vampires and they're fighting to get out of the demon realm. Fighting as one of Kain's allies is cool by default. Both of those factions would be appealing for me to play as. Also, the BO2 era is active and concurrent with Defiance, so it doesn't have the futile feeling of fighting in the SR1 era.

Maybe future expansions of the game can add zones that take place in different eras of LoK with factions that correspond to each era, for example Ancient vampires vs Hylden in ancient Nosgoth, or vampires vs Moebius' hunters pre-BO1.

RainaAudron
3rd Jan 2014, 18:51
About no.1 - I think humans are very appealing in this game and I think they were pretty cool "bad" guys throughout the series. These vampires are not devolved yet I must add as well.

"2. The game takes place in a dead timeline and it feels kind of futile. This era in the game is replaced after Defiance."

That is incorrect, the period between Raziel´s exile and his return was in every timeline and wasn´t substituted by anything.

Vampmaster
3rd Jan 2014, 19:12
Humans have never been presented in a positive light in the LoK universe. They were shown to be either fanatical maniacs or pathetic weaklings, depending on the era.

They aren't being portrayed in a positive light in this game either. In fact, they could even be seen as the bad guys from the perspective that they want to wipe out every single vampire, when the vampires merely want to enslave the humans. I know it's moral relativism, but Nosgoth has always been rife with that.

The_Hylden
3rd Jan 2014, 20:48
If vampires existed in this world, took it over and enslaved the remains of humanity they didn't obliterate, I cannot think anyone would want anything else than to fight and destroy them all. I can't see these humans as the bad guys here; they're just trying to survive, paying attention to logic and survival instincts. Unlike some other oppressor that has motivations you can reason with after war might end, this is a bit unique. Vampires don't simply enslave humans. They eat them. The humans are kept alive as food. You can't negotiate with a species that sees you as dinner.

Worse than that, humans are used for labor, food, and their dead are used as a means to propagate. The vampires use the humans own dead against them. No, humans would be nuts to want anything else other than the destruction of all vampires. Even one left alive is one that would eat your neighbor, your family, etc., and could use your dead loved ones to make another of its kind. It would be almost as goofy as the end of Shaun of the Dead, trying to coexist with zombies.

And about humans being weak in the series, we only ever play as Kain -- the most super vampire probably to ever exist -- and later Raziel, who was far stronger after his resurrection. His vampire brethren didn't stand a chance, so humanity sure wouldn't. The Sarafan were pretty tough in SR2, though.

You have to figure that the first Sarafan order nearly wiped out all vampires, and then Moebius' vampire hunters actually did, except for Kain, so they weren't actually as weak as we're made to view them as when pounding them into nothing as Kain, or Raziel. Even with Moebius' staff as a means for doing their purges, that staff can't be everywhere with every one of the order, so I assume they were able to hold their own even without it.

Vampmaster
3rd Jan 2014, 20:57
If vampires existed in this world, took it over and enslaved the remains of humanity they didn't obliterate, I cannot think anyone would want anything else than to fight and destroy them all. I can't see these humans as the bad guys here; they're just trying to survive, paying attention to logic and survival instincts. Unlike some other oppressor that has motivations you can reason with after war might end, this is a bit unique. Vampires don't simply enslave humans. They eat them. The humans are kept alive as food. You can't negotiate with a species that sees you as dinner.

Worse than that, humans are used for labor, food, and their dead are used as a means to propagate. The vampires use the humans own dead against them. No, humans would be nuts to want anything else other than the destruction of all vampires. Even one left alive is one that would eat your neighbor, your family, etc., and could use your dead loved ones to make another of its kind. It would be almost as goofy as the end of Shaun of the Dead, trying to coexist with zombies.

And about humans being weak in the series, we only ever play as Kain -- the most super vampire probably to ever exist -- and later Raziel, who was far stronger after his resurrection. His vampire brethren didn't stand a chance, so humanity sure wouldn't. The Sarafan were pretty tough in SR2, though.

You have to figure that the first Sarafan order nearly wiped out all vampires, and then Moebius' vampire hunters actually did, except for Kain, so they weren't actually as weak as we're made to view them as when pounding them into nothing as Kain, or Raziel. Even with Moebius' staff as a means for doing their purges, that staff can't be everywhere with every one of the order, so I assume they were able to hold their own even without it.

I was only responding to biribobili's statement about them being portrayed as the good guys. They're justified in their actions, but that doesn't make them saints.

OniOnna
3rd Jan 2014, 21:22
Lets not also forget that this game is still in development. Things are going to be changed, added, and possibly re-written. The purpose of this game is for people to have fun and to get new faces into the LOK world (and make money, of course). Given time, and popularity, Nosgoth could lead to many greater and bigger things that would make old time fans like myself cry with joy. You never know. I am personally going to continue with this game. When it is opened to the public it may be the best online free game available. You NEVER KNOW.

biribobili
3rd Jan 2014, 21:36
About my comment on humans, when I said they were never portrayed in a positive light I didn't mean "good guys", I meant that they were never particularly likeable to me, but I agree that they were pretty good as villains. Normally humans should have been totally justified in their vampire persecution, since vampires are the apex predators of Nosgoth and humans are their food source. Correct me if I'm wrong though, but IIRC the Sarafan during BO2 had also enslaved the rest of humanity in their crusade against vampires. I wasn't really sympathetic towards the human warrior caste after that, though I did feel some pity for the vulnerable humans in the citadel in SR1.
About no.1 - I think humans are very appealing in this game and I think they were pretty cool "bad" guys throughout the series. These vampires are not devolved yet I must add as well.

"2. The game takes place in a dead timeline and it feels kind of futile. This era in the game is replaced after Defiance."

That is incorrect, the period between Raziel´s exile and his return was in every timeline and wasn´t substituted by anything.Oh, I see. I always assumed that after Defiance the world is healed with Kain defeating the Elder God and restoring the pillars, and so I thought that the wasteland during SR1 would never happen.

Tsk, I thought I had my LoK lore down pat, but you guys are experts :o

Darkling
3rd Jan 2014, 22:32
I think we should avoid e-sports. Sure there's a ton of money in it, but you know we're just going to have Koreans take over, and they probably don't care about LoK in the least. Who are you catering to? I wouldn't expect the USA to suddenly change it's cultural views on gaming.

One thing I would like to point out is that the major Differences between Europe and the US should get some recognition

GenFeelGood
4th Jan 2014, 06:09
Nothing has been resolved in the series yet. The Elder God is still alive, Vorador is dead but is suppose to somehow be alive for BO2, Janos is no where to be seen, the Pillars haven't been restored, and Kain, because of this, hasn't yet saved Nosgoth. Those who think the end to Defiance is where it should stay ended should watch the Lord of the Rings trilogy and abruptly turn it off right when Aragorn receives the anduril sword from Elrod the night before the grand battle and final showdowns. Would that have been satisfying enough, if after all that it stopped right there instead?

Jeffers
4th Jan 2014, 13:57
Well Janos ended up in the Demon dimention at the end of BO2 so as of the current story arc he hasn't come back out.

blueobelix
6th Jan 2014, 21:43
"Dear blueobelix,

Haven’t had the opportunity to play Nosgoth yet? Sorry for the wait and thank you for your patience. In the meantime, here’s a quick update on what’s been happening in the Nosgoth Closed Alpha."
I call this mockery

TheIrtar
7th Jan 2014, 02:20
Nothing more cruel than a notice about the Alpha Test you're not invited to.

I'll make my own Nosgoth! With hookers and blackjack!

You know what? Forget the game! *struts off to get some floozies*

Monkeythumbz
7th Jan 2014, 15:42
I'll make my own Nosgoth! With hookers and blackjack!

You know what? Forget the game! *struts off to get some floozies*

Let us know how that works out for you ;)

blueobelix
9th Jan 2014, 01:51
Nothing more cruel than a notice about the Alpha Test you're not invited to.

I'll make my own Nosgoth! With hookers and blackjack!

You know what? Forget the game! *struts off to get some floozies*
as a matter of fact, for your instance sir,
"Haven’t had the opportunity to play Nosgoth yet? Sorry "
sounds more like an ironic: ops, we slipped our button to blueobely instead of blueobelix, tsk tsk tsk, that's a pitty.
Professionalism at it's finest. If they are going to do make Nosgoth as they PR, i preffer not to test the alpha/beta.

"Let us know if that works for you"
As a matter of fact, considering the trailer and the PvP (Assassin's Creed Multiplayer overplayed already) I do really think a 10 year old could do a better game if he/she'd had the money ... considering the age, the workers to do the ideas for him/her.
Fusioning the existing successful trends, shooter and PvP plus Nosgoth doesn't mean you did a great fusion.
I reccomend Game Dev Tycoon to you guys.

Psyonix_Eric
9th Jan 2014, 01:54
Nothing more cruel than a notice about the Alpha Test you're not invited to.

I'll make my own Nosgoth! With hookers and blackjack!

You know what? Forget the game! *struts off to get some floozies*

+1 for a Futurama reference.

Azazel_reborn
9th Jan 2014, 02:18
"Dear blueobelix,

Haven’t had the opportunity to play Nosgoth yet? Sorry for the wait and thank you for your patience. In the meantime, here’s a quick update on what’s been happening in the Nosgoth Closed Alpha."
I call this mockery

I was thinking the exact same thing. I straight shot to the reproductive organ after constant email checking for days. :(

Sluagh
9th Jan 2014, 13:45
If vampires existed in this world, took it over and enslaved the remains of humanity they didn't obliterate, I cannot think anyone would want anything else than to fight and destroy them all. I can't see these humans as the bad guys here; they're just trying to survive, paying attention to logic and survival instincts. Unlike some other oppressor that has motivations you can reason with after war might end, this is a bit unique. Vampires don't simply enslave humans. They eat them. The humans are kept alive as food. You can't negotiate with a species that sees you as dinner.

Worse than that, humans are used for labor, food, and their dead are used as a means to propagate. The vampires use the humans own dead against them. No, humans would be nuts to want anything else other than the destruction of all vampires. Even one left alive is one that would eat your neighbor, your family, etc., and could use your dead loved ones to make another of its kind. It would be almost as goofy as the end of Shaun of the Dead, trying to coexist with zombies.



It's interesting to point out all the reasons that the humans have for hating the vampires. I suppose the cultists in SR 1 were worshipping them, but probably in the hope that they would get turned one day. The humans I suppose - it's worth remembering too - were not terribly happy to have the Hylden as their oppressors in the form of the Sarafan Lord and co. But as you say, a race that doesn't just see you as food has got more opportunity to negotiate, and possibly manipulate and control you. I should think the Hylden would have probably annihilated the humans if they had succeeded entering the gate in force, maybe keeping a few for pets. They have even less use for the humans than the vampires do really. I wonder what Hylden eat? Maybe it's fruit and nuts, that's my guess. The Ancients probably started the war for that very region.


About my comment on humans, when I said they were never portrayed in a positive light I didn't mean "good guys", I meant that they were never particularly likeable to me, but I agree that they were pretty good as villains. Normally humans should have been totally justified in their vampire persecution, since vampires are the apex predators of Nosgoth and humans are their food source. Correct me if I'm wrong though, but IIRC the Sarafan during BO2 had also enslaved the rest of humanity in their crusade against vampires. I wasn't really sympathetic towards the human warrior caste after that, though I did feel some pity for the vulnerable humans in the citadel in SR1.

I suppose the main thing with the humies is this they are not an "ideal" prey race for the vampires. The same as we don't farm chimpanzees (well apart from to inject them with things, which seems to be fortunately going out of fashion), it must be very troubling trying to control a race that is potentially constantly conspiring against you. The humans have all the behaviour patterns of the "priestly" caste in Nietzsche's Genealogy of Morals. They are weak, but turn this weakness inwards and make their war on the vampires a moral crusade, which is probably why Kain thinks they're pathetic, and Raziel eventually comes to this conclusion, even though he is initially enchanted by the idea of their crusaders, the Sarafan. The humans can be hypocritical, cruel and vicious to their own kind too, as they live in constant fear of outsiders contaminating them, although perhaps different human groups have different ideas about this, which could present some scope for an interesting narrative about the different factions within the Nosgoth era rebels.




And about humans being weak in the series, we only ever play as Kain -- the most super vampire probably to ever exist -- and later Raziel, who was far stronger after his resurrection. His vampire brethren didn't stand a chance, so humanity sure wouldn't. The Sarafan were pretty tough in SR2, though.



I'm interested in how Kain fits in with his vampire lieutenants in the Nosgoth era. Obviously he's conspicuous by his absence. By leaving (probably in a chronoplast or something) he's in a way abandoned his empire. However much he loves ruling, he can't rule over a wasteland eternally, so he must give it up. In the same way that Kain was happy (or saw it as merely necessary) to have his first undead son executed, he can't care an awful lot for the remaining five and their vampire offspring. In a way he's the vampire, whilst they are just "vampires," with existences as trite and meaningless as the humans that they prey on. The Pillars and their state has become his sole focus, as if he's spent years playing as a vampire without really embracing the things he needs to do.

midvinterblot92
2nd Mar 2014, 19:12
Everyone in Eidos/The forum/Square Enix already explained Nosgoth won't be Pay-2-Win so these "Avatar Enhancements" must be aesthetical.
So yes, Nosgoth has a way to pay all the days/months/years of work and make some profit for the company and we get our vampire vs. human war without the danger of "that rich guy" calling a tactical razielim nuke :lol:

yeah.. not so much. it's true you can buy cosmetic items, but you can also buy weapons and abilities. whats worse is that when you go into the store to buy weapons or abilities the price shown is the "rental" price. thats to say you only get to use what you just bought for a week and then its gone. unless you buy it permanently and then the price is close to 5x what the displayed price was. i understand its a free to play game and they're here to make money from transactions but come on, RENTING you items? that's just bad business.

ThePainKainGained
2nd Mar 2014, 19:31
yeah.. not so much. it's true you can buy cosmetic items, but you can also buy weapons and abilities. whats worse is that when you go into the store to buy weapons or abilities the price shown is the "rental" price. thats to say you only get to use what you just bought for a week and then its gone. unless you buy it permanently and then the price is close to 5x what the displayed price was. i understand its a free to play game and they're here to make money from transactions but come on, RENTING you items? that's just bad business.

What? no they are not doing that. Please say it isn't so. I mean come on Psyonix and Square Enix I know you made this game for us to play and I know you have to make money some where but wth why can't you just do exp boosters and cosmetics. Or maybe if you get clans going make it to where related clan stuff has to be bought or maybe one or two things have to be earned. I understand that it takes skill to play and that you seem to think that this won't affect gameplay at all but, I assume your not trying to make "money" for your game to make sure the people who made it get their paycheck to provide for their families but, you are taking it a little far don't you think? You are not trying to make money you are trying to make bank.... Just cause other F2P games do it doesn't mean you have to follow in their foot steps. Yes I know, this process has been a little rough and bumpy but, if the LoK fans bring you ideas and ways to bring in more fans or people to play, don't you think that that is enough to make more than enough money to where you don't have to go beyond the limit of making everything purchasable. When I first saw the trailer to this game and got on these forums, the original forum people clearly stated, "Please don't go down a road you can't come back from and don't screw up on this game" I would adhere to that advice. But what do I know? I am not yall am I?

Psyonix_Eric
2nd Mar 2014, 19:45
yeah.. not so much. it's true you can buy cosmetic items, but you can also buy weapons and abilities. whats worse is that when you go into the store to buy weapons or abilities the price shown is the "rental" price. thats to say you only get to use what you just bought for a week and then its gone. unless you buy it permanently and then the price is close to 5x what the displayed price was. i understand its a free to play game and they're here to make money from transactions but come on, RENTING you items? that's just bad business.
The purpose of renting items is so that you have the opportunity to try it before you spend a lot of gold/runes to permanently purchase it. I would hardly say that allowing people the chance to not waste a lot of money is "bad business".

Psyonix_Eric
2nd Mar 2014, 19:48
What? no they are not doing that. Please say it isn't so. I mean come on Psyonix and Square Enix I know you made this game for us to play and I know you have to make money some where but wth why can't you just do exp boosters and cosmetics.
The poster you're quoting is misinformed. Allow me to explain.

You can purchase boosters and cosmetics for real money.
You can purchase weapons for real money OR with gold you earn just by playing the game.
You can rent items so that if you're not sure you want it you can try it first before spending real money or your hard-earned gold.
Nothing that we sell in the store that affects gameplay is only purchasable with real money.

ThePainKainGained
2nd Mar 2014, 19:58
The poster you're quoting is misinformed. Allow me to explain.

You can purchase boosters and cosmetics for real money.
You can purchase weapons for real money OR with gold you earn just by playing the game.
You can rent items so that if you're not sure you want it you can try it first before spending real money or your hard-earned gold.
Nothing that we sell in the store that affects gameplay is only purchasable with real money.

Dear sir thank you for the information and that makes alot of since, I apologize if I have offended anyone and by the end of the day we are all "human" heh mostly and the people that make this game put their pants on the same way we do.

Also I know this is off topic but, the issue with alot of people getting that message saying we don't have access, has it finally been addressed :D?

Psyonix_Eric
2nd Mar 2014, 19:58
Dear sir thank you for the information and that makes alot of since, I apologize if I have offended anyone and by the end of the day we are all "human" heh mostly and the people that make this game put their pants on the same way we do.
No offense taken. I only wanted to clear up the confusion :)

Wait....... we're supposed to wear pants?!

ThePainKainGained
2nd Mar 2014, 20:03
No offense taken. I only wanted to clear up the confusion :)

Wait....... we're supposed to wear pants?!

Lol the decision is yours good buddy.... I await to play your awesome game, tech support has tried to resolve the no access issue for 3 days now with various people so to all the fans who get this....it's gonna be ok...we will get their someday. "Safe" travels through Nosgoth everyone

Vampmaster
2nd Mar 2014, 20:04
No offense taken. I only wanted to clear up the confusion :)

Wait....... we're supposed to wear pants?!

And with that, I give you...

...Pants Man!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LonSdeXR0s

Razaiim
2nd Mar 2014, 20:09
You are all misunderstanding the currency system entirely. Any item that affects gameplay (perks, weapons, abilities, classes) can be bought for in game gold, which is awarded at the end of each match. Weapons and abilities have two options, rent for 7 days, for either 270 gold or 300 gold depending on item, or be bought permanently for 5x the price, so 1350 or 1500 gold. Perks are available for 3 day (115 gold) 30 day (idk how much) and permanent (3000 gold) increments. Classes can be bought for 4,500 gold at the moment, or unlocked using a class unlock key you get at levels 5, 10, 15 and 20.

To put this in perspective, a loss earns you 50 gold, + additional gold based on score (I usually get around 60-65 gold a match). A win yields about 70 + gold based on score (I can hit around 80-85). So at most, if you sit afk through game and get 0 score, you will need to play 6 matches to get enough gold to rent an ability or weapon. If you perform well, this can be faster. To permanently buy a weapon/ability it will take 27 matches for a 270/1350, or 30 for a 300/1500 (rent/perm). In short, gold can be earned fairly fast. The purpose of renting is to see if you like the skill before you decide to save up and splurge on it. 24 hour perks are frequently awarded at the end of a match.

Items that are runes only are keys which can be used to open chests, which can contain a modified item or ability, randomly awarded after a match (Modded items are also awarded by reaching certain levels with classes, and randomly awarded), skins, and boosters, which give multipliers for class experience and gold per match.

Runes can also be used to buy the gold items above. I don't know the exchange rate and pricing of the item in runes, because I don't have a means to buy them.

I feel this is more than fair, considering the amount of work that goes into these games, which are released FREE, regardless of development costs. In an industry like gaming, one bad product can sink a developer into bankruptcy, and cause major issues for the publisher.

Edit: It seems in the time it took to type out this wall of text, everythings been resolved....gaaah

ThePainKainGained
2nd Mar 2014, 20:13
It is what it is...that is all, to be honest they can do what ever they want XD I just want to play the game! If you want to make bank than by all means take my money, I am not complaining I was just concerned. I work my ass off all day in a factory to provide my family with food on the table and bills to be paid. If they want to make stuff purchasable then I am going to throw money their way. :)

Cahyne
2nd Mar 2014, 22:35
Hello Evrybody,

Why are you doing this to LoK...that was the initial question.

I want to refer only to this question.
I dont know why they did it, but they did it. So maybe there is comming more.
Maybe its just to have a vampiric slay-strategy-game out.

As mentioned in other posts and in game. I think this is a fast game. It is different than any LoK game.
I dont know how they ever gonna connect this idea with the storybased LoK games. But hey, i am not a developer. And strange twists may bring a nice surprise to all of us fans!

For now i am glad to be testing!!! here in beta...testing for what ever will come.
testing for free if i like, testing how it is to spend money ; ) if i like!!!

Nobody is standing behind me threatening me to keep playing, right? hope so ( quick glance over my shoulder)

Well, i keep an eye open for singleplayer games. If my heroes are to come back, hooray! If not...well then i was introduced into a new sensation of games.
Personally i am to slow for this genre, but there are players who love this.

So i will not cry about my dearly beloved Raziel and the nice guy Kain ; ) because i enjoyed playing them already! Time fleets and changes guys, thanks for your time reading my thoughts on this

Have a nice day, or night if preferred : ))

Ygdrasel
3rd Mar 2014, 02:26
I dont know how they ever gonna connect this idea with the storybased LoK games.

This is how. (http://forums.eu.square-enix.com/showthread.php?t=7221)

MordaxPraetorian
5th Mar 2014, 00:36
I want to put something in here to stop other diehard LoK fans who find the game doing what I did

When I first found out about Nosgoth shortly after the first video came out, I was already well past mourning the death of LoK

Finding out that Square Enix of all people, were making an arena combat game in "Nosgoth", with what at first looked to be a setting and theme that didn't fit anywhere in the timeline...... well that was like finding out that a loved one's corpse had been dug up by necrophiliacs, I felt very very strongly about it and it made me very depressed

It was a knee jerk reaction, and as more information came to light I really warmed to the game, there are some true LoK fans on that team, all of the new lore that they've put out is a wonderful addition to the setting of Nosgoth, and they've got the best people to make the gameplay

Before reading on this website, I had no idea that UT2k4's Onslaught Mode and the ME3 Mutiplayer were made by the same people, but those were 2 of the most compelling arena combat modes that I've ever encountered, and as more of Nosgoth's gameplay has come to light it's looking more and more like their finest work yet

I know the obvious reaction is "that's not the Defiance sequel it's going to be horrible", I've been there, but the more I learn and the more I think about this, the better it looks for the future of LoK as a whole.

If Nosgoth becomes popular, then it's going to pull people in who want to know what happened to Raziel, that gives a market for a Soul Reaver re-release/graphical update and the main series would be revived. If Square just released a Defiance sequel without doing any work before hand it would flop because the preceding 5 games are a huge barrier to new players entering the series

Not only does Nosgoth look like a superb game in it's own right that really fills out an era of Nosgoth's history that's barely been touched on, but it's also exactly what the LoK franchise needs for a revival

RainaAudron
5th Mar 2014, 11:23
MordaxPraetorian: Glad to see people like you on board! I think most of us when through a similar stage but Nosgoth is ultimately good thing for everybody, die-hard fans and new ones. Hope you´ll get a key soon :)

hirukaru
5th Mar 2014, 11:47
MordaxPraetorian: Glad to see people like you on board! I think most of us when through a similar stage but Nosgoth is ultimately good thing for everybody, die-hard fans and new ones. Hope you´ll get a key soon :)

Really well said.

I once had a conversation with someone who says he is a die hard LoK fans and also stated that it is ruining the Lore. After telling him that more LoK fans started playing and they all changed his mind he also signed up for the Alpha/Beta. As stated I also talked to some LoK fans and a big part changed there mind about the game from Crappy to wow this is great add to the LoK series.

I just love the game and hope that all people who signed up for the beta soon get a key.

Cahyne
5th Mar 2014, 20:35
Hello Ygdrasil, cheers Mordax Praetorian and hirukaru,

i know what is the role of nosgoth the game in the lore of LoK.
What i meant is, is there a chance to integrate a multiplayer death-match into a single player game. Like having sidequests that are to play as multiplayer experience?

Maybe having different stages in the singleplayer game you can only conclude when you solve a task as a team? there are so many multiplayer games out that there are numerous posibillities of getting ideas...

But despite the fact that singleplayer games are independent from other factors then am i too tired or whatever to play, wouldnt it be worth to start some new kind of game, where both is possible? Wouldnt it be worth for players to wait for a group to form for completing another stage in the game?
Multiplayer and single player? As i mentioned, sidequests, taskforces, even trading ingame?

To the idea of attracting outsiders i would say, yes great idea to get some more people on the theme with a game like Nosgoth ...as mentioned above, i am glad to be here and i like the game very much! ( i am getting better ; ) )

Its important to let go of the old game, they were and are great! .

MordaxPraetorian
6th Mar 2014, 00:24
Personally, I'm hoping that each new map post-release moves the timeline along a bit, each representing a battle from slightly later in the war

Eventually we could get the battle where the Zephonim captured the Silenced Cathedral, or even the siege of Dumah's castle, where he was killed

I don't think we can expect a single-player to be added at this stage, a Co-Op vs AI wave survival mode would be more likely but I really doubt it

RainaAudron
6th Mar 2014, 11:43
Eventually we could get the battle where the Zephonim captured the Silenced Cathedral

I am afraid that already happened in the time frame of the game (before SR1 intro). But they could always do the assassination on Zephon that the humans try later(the dead hunter in Zephon´s throne chamber).


What i meant is, is there a chance to integrate a multiplayer death-match into a single player game. Like having sidequests that are to play as multiplayer experience?

I am not part of the dev team, but they stated Nosgoth is only mp experience and such will not focus on any sp parts. There are no additional resources which would support a creation of an sp part. However, the game will at least receive a tutorial where you can learn how to play some time during Closed Beta.

DeIYIon
6th Mar 2014, 18:31
I don't understand, you're taking a beautiful single player story driven game and turning it into a generic lore mash up a la World of Warcraft where we do "raids" and "pvp" and whatever?

LOK is the story of Kain and Raziel, not some random generic MMO class or whatever running around doing quests for gear and xp or whatever.

This is like turning Mass Effect into an MMO, and we all know how well that turned out with The Old Republic instead of making KOTOR 3.WoW's lore has gone to hell too and Elder Scrolls Online is probably next.

Why do you people do these things? We WANTED a single player sequel, you truly believe the world wants another freaking MMO, especially one of a world that's worked so well in the past as a single player experience?

You're just taking a name and using it to get some hype, this is just sad.

I like how he doesn't admit that he is woefully misinformed after being told it's not an MMO. Some people.... He has every right to not like Nosgoth, but at least read what its all about rather than making it up.

Ekrizeal
6th Mar 2014, 21:18
1. It's not an MMO.
2. If you can't keep an open mind about it, you'll never see the potential in it.
3. Personal feelings about the game aside, I find it particularly rude that you assume you know that they're " just taking a name and using it to get some hype." Plus, if they wanted to do that, they wouldn't have picked LoK. Even though it's popular, we're a niche audience, if we're honest here.
4. How dare you tell someone else what kind of creative endeavor they can embark on? You wouldn't tell Stephen King that he sucks for not writing a sequel to IT, would you? It doesn't matter how much you wanted something, and how disappointed you are, if you're going to act rude like this I'm just going to assume you aren't even old enough to play LoK.
5. I suggest you read up on what people who have actually played a bit of the game are saying before you pass judgement on it.
Here's a thread with links so you can see more of what Nosgoth is all about.
http://forums.eu.square-enix.com/showthread.php?t=7189

We know you're upset, but please be civil, and think before you post. There's actually a lot going on for this game to be excited about, and I think once you learn a little more you'll agree with the majority of the fans on this site.

Well said.

MordaxPraetorian
7th Mar 2014, 00:33
I am afraid that already happened in the time frame of the game (before SR1 intro). But they could always do the assassination on Zephon that the humans try later(the dead hunter in Zephon´s throne chamber).

Touche, well that battle would also be very cool, muuuuch later in the timeline though

Another thing I think would be awesome to get eventually is a branching map list that follows the war through based on which faction won the last match overall

for instance, the list could start with Provance, and then follow through into Sommerdam if the vampires win (humans get pushed back) or move into Vampire territory is the humans win, that would be a great way of adding some narrative structure to the game

The map list would have to track faction score in addition to team score to determine where to go next

LintonSamuelDawson
7th Mar 2014, 22:53
First of all, I just don´t understand how anyone who claims to be a fan of the LoK games could not picture the whole line is about different events taking place in Nosgoth (the Sarafan crusades, the Vampire-Hylden war, the corruption of the Pillars), Raziel and Kain are only actors and part of the Nosgoth history. And second, don't forget the first title of the saga was an RPG, what's the problem with they releasing a differently oriented type of game?, what's so bad with moving forward and evolve? In the end, this is a good opportunity for we the old players to gather all together in a very special manner and to gain new supporters to the game, at the time it expands the plot and decompresses the story a little.

Viridian24
8th Mar 2014, 13:20
I don't understand, you're taking a beautiful single player story driven game and turning it into a generic lore mash up a la World of Warcraft where we do "raids" and "pvp" and whatever?

LOK is the story of Kain and Raziel, not some random generic MMO class or whatever running around doing quests for gear and xp or whatever.

This is like turning Mass Effect into an MMO, and we all know how well that turned out with The Old Republic instead of making KOTOR 3.WoW's lore has gone to hell too and Elder Scrolls Online is probably next.

Why do you people do these things? We WANTED a single player sequel, you truly believe the world wants another freaking MMO, especially one of a world that's worked so well in the past as a single player experience?

You're just taking a name and using it to get some hype, this is just sad.

1.) It's not an MMO.
2.) This game is actually incredibly fun, and still sticks to the lore quite well.
3.) It's not an MMO. Who told you it was an MMO?
4.) Mass Effect has a squad-based multiplayer that's very similar to this, and no one game them **** for it. If someone disliked it, they had the option to just not play it, like you have the option to go play something else.
5.) It's not an MMO. Seriously, they have screenshots and people streaming gameplay. How in the world did you figure it was an MMO?
6.) Don't be such a spoiled brat. Play the games you have, if a developer makes a new game that is fun, respects and also builds off of the lore of the older games in the series, and is entirely free to play, there is nothing you should be complaining about. Worst-case scenerio, don't play the game. The storyline basically ended at Defiance, what are you dissatisfied with?
7.) Seriously, not an MMO.

RealLoK
27th Mar 2014, 00:38
Sorry for reviving this thread, but today, I have found an episode of Jimquisition that actually sums up and explains most of the complaints people had and still have with Nosgoth. Now, the video is not about Nosgoth itself, but about some examples of games that were ruined by trying to appeal to a "broader audience".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nw_LeI2A77o

shinros
27th Mar 2014, 02:03
Funny enough the developers of this game are actually sticking really closely to lore I notice some of the people who cry the game is breaking the lore actually know nothing about it and talking with the developers on the forums they know some details that I and other people did not know.

They are just mad that they are not getting their single player game.

Therealrabban
27th Mar 2014, 02:14
Well, yeah that's a huge part of why older fans are disappointed shinros, another reason apart from there being an incomplete story is the last game was over 10 years ago. Graphics,tech and storytelling in games have changed a bit since then.

iwinulose
27th Mar 2014, 02:59
Yes it is an mmo.

Viridian24
27th Mar 2014, 04:32
Yes it is an mmo.


A massively multiplayer online game (also called MMO and MMOG) is a multiplayer video game which is capable of supporting large numbers of players simultaneously.

4 vs 4 isn't "massively multiplayer," it's just multiplayer. Nosgoth isn't an MMO in the same sense that Call of Duty isn't an MMO. Portal 2 isn't an MMO. The Portal 2 community is massive, and you can play multiplayer online, but that doesn't make it an MMO.

Nosgoth is closer to a MOBA than an MMO, if anything.

Ygdrasel
27th Mar 2014, 08:00
Sorry for reviving this thread, but today, I have found an episode of Jimquisition that actually sums up and explains most of the complaints people had and still have with Nosgoth. Now, the video is not about Nosgoth itself, but about some examples of games that were ruined by trying to appeal to a "broader audience".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nw_LeI2A77o

I honestly don't think Nosgoth is necessarily trying to appeal to a broader audience. The 4v4 multiplayer arena is just an easier and smarter way to slowly revive a series than going right into a big single-player affair after all these years gone.

As I continue to tell people, the series has been lights-out for eleven years. The water's gone cold. A single-player game would've been the equivalent of diving into a frozen lake. Nosgoth is more dipping a toe into it to see if it's still worth a swim. People who call it a cash-grab or whatever are frankly being illogical. LoK was a niche even back in its heyday so it's a terrible option for a quick cash-grab. If it's successful, we'll all get our proper sequel.


Nosgoth is closer to a MOBA than an MMO, if anything.

Isn't a MOBA like LoL and DotA?

RainaAudron
27th Mar 2014, 11:59
Isn't a MOBA like LoL and DotA?

Yep, Nosgoth isn´t anything like it. It is much closer to TDM arena shooter like Unreal or even closer to the VS mode of L4D.

RealLoK
27th Mar 2014, 16:10
I honestly don't think Nosgoth is necessarily trying to appeal to a broader audience. The 4v4 multiplayer arena is just an easier and smarter way to slowly revive a series than going right into a big single-player affair after all these years gone.

As I continue to tell people, the series has been lights-out for eleven years. The water's gone cold. A single-player game would've been the equivalent of diving into a frozen lake. Nosgoth is more dipping a toe into it to see if it's still worth a swim. People who call it a cash-grab or whatever are frankly being illogical. LoK was a niche even back in its heyday so it's a terrible option for a quick cash-grab. If it's successful, we'll all get our proper sequel.

That point has already been made, and the problem still is, that multiplayer games like Nosgoth attract a COMPLETELY different audience. If Nosgoth is successful, that won't mean that a proper sequel will be just as successful. That is exactly the point of the video. LoK fans are a niche audience, and there is NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT. But almost nobody of the "new players" gives a damn about where Nosgoth came from. I have played a few matches by now, and when I asked my teammates, the only response I got was "lol, who cares about the story?" This is the sad truth. THIS is the kind of people Nosgoth attracts. Nosgoth won't spark new interest in Legacy of Kain, and if it does, it surely won't be enough.

I don't hate Nosgoth. But I still am disappointed, because despite the references to the lore and the blog posts, this is NOT a Legacy of Kain game. Oblivion had a LoK Easteregg (and, due to mods, can have the Soul Reaver in it) , that doesn't make it a Legacy of Kain game. Tomb Raider Legend had the Soul Reaver and a portrait of Kain in it. That still doesn't make it a Legacy of Kain game. And Nosgoth has even less than that. It has nothing in common with Legacy of Kain except vague references without which the game would still be playable and understandable (I just remember that one incident where one player had no idea what a Dumahim was WHILE PLAYING ONE.), and blog posts barely anyone bothers to read. Nosgoth is a good game, but a good game in its own way.

Let's just say that, if they had made a real LoK right away instead of Nosgoth, I would have bought the game to see if it was good, and if it was, then I would have bought ten more and persuaded all of my friends into doing the same, just to show that this series is worth something without watering it down.

RainaAudron
27th Mar 2014, 17:03
if they had made a real LoK right away instead of Nosgoth

They tried to make Dead Sun which was bad gameplay and lorewise and got canceled, but they already invested money into it. They´ll be much more carefull to start new project again I´d say.

Gugulug5000
27th Mar 2014, 17:20
I don't hate Nosgoth. But I still am disappointed, because despite the references to the lore and the blog posts, this is NOT a Legacy of Kain game.

Saying Nosgoth isn't a Legacy of Kain game is like saying Mario Kart isn't a Mario game. Yes, the gameplay is different, no, it's not the LoK single player game we have all been waiting for, but I think you need to remember that this is an unfinished product. The developers are trying to tie the game in to the main series more. Look at the evolved skins they're going to implement. If those don't scream Legacy of Kain, I don't know what does. They even went so far as to get Daniel Cabucco involved, so they are definitely trying to make it as close to the main series as they can.

As for your claim that it won't get new people involved in the series, I disagree. I have introduced the series to three of my friends already (got them to start playing Soul Reaver and Blood Omen), and it was all because of Nosgoth. Plus, I have met plenty of people in game who have said that they are brand new to the series, and that they'll look into the other games because of Nosgoth. Sure there may be a few people who don't care about the story, but there's an old saying; "Any publicity is good publicity."

So I guess what I'm trying to say is, be positive. Give constructive criticism to the developers in the forums (they listen!) instead of complaining. Tell the guys you find in game who say they don't care about the story that they should give it a try. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

Viridian24
27th Mar 2014, 19:09
Yep, Nosgoth isn´t anything like it. It is much closer to TDM arena shooter like Unreal or even closer to the VS mode of L4D.

I said it's closer to a MOBA than it is to an MMO. Never said it was a MOBA. Just wanted to clarify that lol

RainaAudron
27th Mar 2014, 19:25
Oh ok, np, haven´t read the whole thing, sorry.