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synesthasa
27th Sep 2013, 05:28
Okay. So the smoke has cleared and everyone has expressed their hope, disappointment, elation, anger, rage, threats of violence, etc etc.

My initial reaction was my heart settling gently into my stomach where it would then crack to pieces. That said, I'm trying to understand.

So this game is a complete departure from everything that has made the LOK series beloved by fans. This game is also created by people who have said that they are HUGE LOK fans. Now if this is true, then it should be fair to deduce that they would want what we do; a continuation of the story.

Enter multiplayer Nosgoth:

I'm wondering if there is more that we don't know. Is Nosgoth the first game that brings the world back to light, while a true LOK game is being developed. Perhaps this is a test to see if, when a new LOK game is made, multiplayer can be an addition.

These are speculations based on my hope that there is more here than meets the eye, and that this game is the start of what we hope to come. While I'm glad LOK has been forgotten, this is nearly as if it still is. I likely won't be able to attend the Q&A, but what I'm hoping is that there is something more to this. If Square Enix has not developed a sequel because they fear low sales, then I wish they would be transparent about it. If this is to test the market for interest, it seems a sideways way to do it given it has nothing in common with LOK aside from the world and clans.

I will not lie and say I'm not disappointed, but at the same time, I'm trying my best to be open-minded about this, and am holding out hope that we might actually get to know what happens after Defiance. Sadly, I don't like, and don't play multiplayer games. I don't even really play online. And if I did, I currently wouldn't be able to enjoy this game because I don't play on PC. I only have a console.

So much about this has me scratching my head, but I'm hoping something encouraging will be revealed on monday.

This is nearly a complete departure from LOK. I'm interested in learning what the thinking was behind it.

PoppaKain
27th Sep 2013, 05:36
This is pretty obviously a Syndicate/XCOM: The Bureau-esque "I wonder if people still want these games" move, with the same "choice" of making it a shooter, a radical departure from the original game. I am pretty bummed with how this is going so far, but at the VERY least the vampire half of the game looks somewhat interesting. I'd say maybe a massive BETRAAAAAYAAAAAL response like XCOM had might get Square's attention but the fanbase isn't nearly big enough for that.

synesthasa
27th Sep 2013, 05:45
I'm hoping that this is something to garner interest while they're working on an addition to the story from Defiance. Either way, I'm guessing we'll know all the answers on monday. I'll be keeping my fingers crossed that something good is said on monday. We'll see.

Rynfear
27th Sep 2013, 07:53
The sequel to Defiance was cancelled in 2004. The reboot of the franchise was cancelled in 2012, after 3 years of work.

Chances are, if they wanted an LoK sequel they'd have it out by now. Nosgoth is a marketing move and little else.

I feel sorry for Psyonix.

88chaz88
27th Sep 2013, 08:13
The sequel to Defiance was cancelled in 2004. The reboot of the franchise was cancelled in 2012, after 3 years of work.

Chances are, if they wanted an LoK sequel they'd have it out by now. Nosgoth is a marketing move and little else.

I feel sorry for Psyonix.

If it was a pure marketing move it would be called "Legacy of Kain: Kain's Legacy: Defiance 2: Revelations!" Nah, there's probably a number of reasons, testing the waters, funding a bigger LoK project, or genuinely wanting to expand the IP's scope.

Remember this is the same publisher who after getting hold of the Tomb Raider license, made Guardian of Light, a good but wildly different Tomb Raider game. However they also came out with the latest Tomb Raider which is by all rights another good game and more faithful mechanically to the previous games.

Rynfear
27th Sep 2013, 08:22
If it was a pure marketing move it would be called "Legacy of Kain: Kain's Legacy: Defiance 2: Revelations!"

Like the Syndicate FPS was called Syndicate? Or the XCOM FPS being called XCOM before people wildly raged at it? Yeah, I'm sure it would be.

88chaz88
27th Sep 2013, 08:35
Like the Syndicate FPS was called Syndicate? Or the XCOM FPS being called XCOM before people wildly raged at it? Yeah, I'm sure it would be.

Yes.

Anyway did you miss my Guardian of Light analogy?

Rynfear
27th Sep 2013, 11:16
Yes.

Anyway did you miss my Guardian of Light analogy?

The one that assumes Square is into releasing spin-offs before actual sequels and ignores the one big sequel they just cancelled?

88chaz88
27th Sep 2013, 11:34
The one that assumes Square is into releasing spin-offs before actual sequels and ignores the one big sequel they just cancelled?

Games get cancelled all the time, there were 9 LoK related projects cancelled before that one, many of which had their assets and concepts shifted over to the games we know now. Just because Dead Sun isn't releasing as Dead Sun doesn't mean the idea is gone forever. Part of it has turned into Nosgoth, but what about the rest? Could be that the singleplayer element isn't dead and being turned into something better.

Back to your original statement I still don't get how this could be a marketing strategy, if it is then it's a terrible one.

MasterShuriko
27th Sep 2013, 14:23
I remember a few years back when I noticed a poll where people would vote on the next game and a new Lok game lost to Tombraider....people wanted to watch more pixelated boobs than to experience undead AWESOMENESS!

Shame on them that voted!

Kriegson
27th Sep 2013, 15:32
I dunno, could go either way. I'm just happy to have another game using the amazing IP, and it may lead to greater things in the future.

synesthasa
27th Sep 2013, 16:31
I'm hoping this is to kick things off. I may be naively optimistic, but I can't let myself believe that despite all they've heard from fans, they would only release this game without something else in the works. That would defy logic. It's been a long wait, and I guess we'll have to wait a bit longer to see what happens. As much as I would likely have supported this, I happen to detest online play for the most part, so this is a complete wash for me. *shrugs*

Enclave
29th Sep 2013, 00:31
Squenix? I haven't been this disappointed in a publisher in my life. You've fallen from the pedestal you once were atop. That is all.

calypso-694
29th Sep 2013, 02:49
i get you guys are pissed or confused or some type of negative towards this and I get it. but seriously guys just a cry a river and get over it. And for once be actually HAPPY that square even allowed this in the first place. they have an interest in this series otherwise they would have never let this be and wed still be waiting for something, anything LOK related. yes I understand that it isn't *Legacy of Kain* related I a sense but it is NOSGOTH and Nosgoth is the world we fell I love with. playing BO1 all those years ago and just exploring the world was amazing. YES its the story we all love with this series as well as the world, but if you get down to it, do you really want a continuation to a story that for me at least ended just fine? sure you all want closure of what happens next and how. but Tony Jay is gone, Simon has moved on to doing other things, and Michael as far as I know, is retired. Plus do you want a story to be told only to end up hating its conclusion because its not what or how you thought it would end? its been 10 years guys. TEN YEARS. im not saying we shouldn't hope (which is a primary theme of defiance ironically enough) for another single player game, but lets stop the hating and embrace this new thing that at least is set in and is a new take on a series we love. its called NOSGOTH not Legcy of Kain: Nosgoth for a reason.

for me anyway id rather have this than a single player game that doesn't live up the unbelievably high standards we set ourselves for this series.

Enclave
29th Sep 2013, 03:56
cinful13? I honestly would have preferred no new game set in this universe than this game. Honestly, they're taking a game, sacrificing it's core audience (likely in a worthless attempt at appealing to the CoD crowd) and butchering the lore and art in the process.

Why should we put up with it? The XCOM fanbase didn't put up with it and they basically got a good faithful game in return as an apology.

Vanyelxp5
29th Sep 2013, 03:58
Best way to gauge interest in a new LoK game (A real single player one with stories and lots of stabbing people.)

Create a kickstarter page for it...

Spam advertise the kickstarter page for it....

Sit back and watch the fans go "Shut up and take my money!" like they did for Mighty no. 9

Alma_Elma
29th Sep 2013, 04:03
cinful13? I honestly would have preferred no new game set in this universe than this game. Honestly, they're taking a game, sacrificing it's core audience (likely in a worthless attempt at appealing to the CoD crowd) and butchering the lore and art in the process.

Why should we put up with it? The XCOM fanbase didn't put up with it and they basically got a good faithful game in return as an apology.

Honestly I don't see why it matters, I love the Legacy of Kain Series and look forward to this game and to see what they will do to improve it, people are already judging it and its not even close beta yet lol, if the game does end up killing the fanbase, then people will do what they do to any game that kills the series disown it and pretend it didn't exist, instead people waste their time bashing on a game that could have potential, not to the series but at least something, and another thing where do people get the whole "CoD crowd" thing when its not even remotely the same style of gameplay I would understand if you compared it to left 4 dead or something but a game with quick scoping is considered skill is a wat? but its whatever all we can do is give them our feedback and see if they listen so the game has a potential of being good

Enclave
29th Sep 2013, 04:11
Hibkiyuki, appealing to the CoD crowd doesn't mean making a game exactly like CoD. Look at Resident Evil 6. The game doesn't play like CoD yet the devs have flat out stated they were trying to appeal more to the CoD crowd. Same goes for many games that have departed from their roots. It's a mistake developers and publishers are constantly making because they see the money CoD pulls in. Problem is? That crowd doesn't care to play anything but CoD and maybe some GTA as well. They don't CARE about Resident Evil, Dead Rising or Nosgoth, they're happy playing CoD.

At least Capcom CLAIMS that Resident Evil 7 will return to its survival horror roots after how badly RE6 failed. Thing is, if the game was a success? RE7 would be certain to appeal to the exact same audience and further alienate the core RE fanbase.

I've never seen a game improved by appealing to a wider audience. Not once. Problem is that publishers set unrealistic expectations. They need to cut back the budget and stop trying to sell a billion copies of their games. Have realistic sales expectations and don't alienate your core audience. Niche games still make profit, look at Atlus, all their games are niche titles and they made reliable profits from their niche titles, hell it was their parent company that had money issues, Atlus themselves were still solvent.

Alma_Elma
29th Sep 2013, 04:27
Hibkiyuki, appealing to the CoD crowd doesn't mean making a game exactly like CoD. Look at Resident Evil 6. The game doesn't play like CoD yet the devs have flat out stated they were trying to appeal more to the CoD crowd. Same goes for many games that have departed from their roots. It's a mistake developers and publishers are constantly making because they see the money CoD pulls in. Problem is? That crowd doesn't care to play anything but CoD and maybe some GTA as well. They don't CARE about Resident Evil, Dead Rising or Nosgoth, they're happy playing CoD.

At least Capcom CLAIMS that Resident Evil 7 will return to its survival horror roots after how badly RE6 failed. Thing is, if the game was a success? RE7 would be certain to appeal to the exact same audience and further alienate the core RE fanbase.

I've never seen a game improved by appealing to a wider audience. Not once. Problem is that publishers set unrealistic expectations. They need to cut back the budget and stop trying to sell a billion copies of their games. Have realistic sales expectations and don't alienate your core audience. Niche games still make profit, look at Atlus, all their games are niche titles and they made reliable profits from their niche titles, hell it was their parent company that had money issues, Atlus themselves were still solvent.

Either way, doesn't change the fact that you really don't care about how this game goes then why bother with the game in the first place? I just fail to see a good reason why not just you but others on this forum who are fans have to look at things in such a way. if what you say is true and this game fails to appeal the audience then so be it, wont really change much at least they are doing something with the title, I've personally been waiting a long time for some spark of the game to come up even if it doesn't continue the story.

calypso-694
29th Sep 2013, 04:50
Either way, doesn't change the fact that you really don't care about how this game goes then why bother with the game in the first place? I just fail to see a good reason why not just you but others on this forum who are fans have to look at things in such a way. if what you say is true and this game fails to appeal the audience then so be it, wont really change much at least they are doing something with the title, I've personally been waiting a long time for some spark of the game to come up even if it doesn't continue the story.


exactly. you can either cry about it and just not play it. or wait, play it, then make your choice. and I like the art style. its not Dans but it (for me at least) evokes that feeing, its a bit of every game combined. im excited is my bottom line. that's all.

synesthasa
29th Sep 2013, 05:10
Well I'm not one given to wish ill will, so I hole the game does well and leads to a continuation or reboot of the series. I totally understand that this is business, and they have to pay the bills and make a profit. I totally get that. My wish is just flr transparnecy. Tell us what's up. Are they testing the waters before creating another LOK game? Are they concerned about making another one because the last two didn't do as well as hoped? I just want to know what the thinking is.

As for this game, it looks nice indeed, but I'm kind of left out for two reasons: I don't like or play multiplayer games because they're not my thing, not to mention the trolls. And I don't play games on pc.

Still, if it comes to PS4, I would likely just try it anyway to support it

I'd be lying if I didn't say I was heavily disappointed and more than a little irritated, but I've also been looking at this rationally and I have to believe there is a plan here.

I guess we'll see soon enough.

dxluv1
29th Sep 2013, 13:06
I do not think they were ready to drop a bunch of money on the franchise for an entry of that kind. I'm excited for this, because it allows me to interact with the setting of Nosgoth in a different way. I'd rather this spin-off than a mainline entry that they aren't quite ready to make. You can't just poof one out on demand, and I'm sure they're working on what direction the franchise will inevitably take. Will Henning come back, what will the gameplay be like, how do they take the games to the next level?

Square-Enix Europe is kind of the best branch at Square-Enix at the moment. They're producing some of the most well-made, well-polished, well-thought-out games on the market today. Tomb Raider and Sleeping Dogs were some of the most fun I've had in the past 5 years of modern games. I've got some faith that they're making the best decisions they can.

Enclave
29th Sep 2013, 13:27
Either way, doesn't change the fact that you really don't care about how this game goes then why bother with the game in the first place? I just fail to see a good reason why not just you but others on this forum who are fans have to look at things in such a way. if what you say is true and this game fails to appeal the audience then so be it, wont really change much at least they are doing something with the title, I've personally been waiting a long time for some spark of the game to come up even if it doesn't continue the story.

I have every right to post here as you. I do care what happens to this game in that I don't want it made and I want them to know how I feel about this. Forums aren't supposed to be just for people happy with the butchering of a beloved series, they're for everybody. You honestly sound like those people who defended the Xbox One before they did a 180 on their policies. Complaining WORKS. Worked with fixing the Xbox One, worked with Resident Evil, worked with Mass Effect 3 and worked with XCOM.

Make noise, have your voice heard and only then can you effect change in this industry. If you just roll over and accept it? All we'll get is publishers and developers continuing to butcher classics all to try to cash in without actually caring about the source material.

Vampmaster
29th Sep 2013, 16:48
If you are going to complain, make sure you're specific about what your complaining about. Don't just say it contradicts the plot, say which parts and don't expect getting one game cancelled will automatically mean the one you want will be made instead, because it will probably just put them of trying altogether.

And remember, nobody is going to listen to you if all you're going to do is call them names and insult them.

SpookieGhost
29th Sep 2013, 17:08
Either way, doesn't change the fact that you really don't care about how this game goes then why bother with the game in the first place? I just fail to see a good reason why not just you but others on this forum who are fans have to look at things in such a way. if what you say is true and this game fails to appeal the audience then so be it, wont really change much at least they are doing something with the title, I've personally been waiting a long time for some spark of the game to come up even if it doesn't continue the story.

Nice strawman you pulled there. It is precisely because we care about the game and its place in the series that we have to come out and point out all the mistakes to the devs. I wouldn't mind this being a sort of spin-off game if AT LEAST they did their research. I mean, what can we expect if they couldn't even get the right look for the vampire clans?

Furthermore, why settle for a poor marketing attempt when there's both a budget AND an audience available for a proper LoK game? Why should we not be allowed to criticize the game for obvious design flaws that include lore inconsistencies and incorrect aesthetics? If you're fine with just getting the scraps of what could've been a proper meal so be it, but not everyone has to just shut up and stop voicing their concerns.

Enclave
29th Sep 2013, 20:48
If you are going to complain, make sure you're specific about what your complaining about. Don't just say it contradicts the plot, say which parts and don't expect getting one game cancelled will automatically mean the one you want will be made instead, because it will probably just put them of trying altogether.

And remember, nobody is going to listen to you if all you're going to do is call them names and insult them.

Complaint 1: It's a freakin' arena based 3rd person competitive shooter.
Complaint 2: The atmosphere is all wrong.
Complaint 3: Our wonderful story driven narrative is gone.
Complaint 4: No more having characters we love and no chance for new characters we love since this genre of game has no story worth speaking of.
Complaint 5: Disrespect for the source material by blatantly ignoring the continuity errors (Humans didn't wage war on the Vampires as equals, Razielim were exterminated)

I'd continue listing complaints but you don't actually care about them. You're just trying to find a way to dismiss me and others like me. For some reason you actually want this pathetic excuse for a Legacy of Kain game. I'm not going to just accept it though because it's a travesty.

Vanyelxp5
29th Sep 2013, 20:59
Complaint 1: It's a freakin' arena based 3rd person competitive shooter.
Complaint 2: The atmosphere is all wrong.
Complaint 3: Our wonderful story driven narrative is gone.
Complaint 4: No more having characters we love and no chance for new characters we love since this genre of game has no story worth speaking of.
Complaint 5: Disrespect for the source material by blatantly ignoring the continuity errors (Humans didn't wage war on the Vampires as equals, Razielim were exterminated)

I'd continue listing complaints but you don't actually care about them. You're just trying to find a way to dismiss me and others like me. For some reason you actually want this pathetic excuse for a Legacy of Kain game. I'm not going to just accept it though because it's a travesty.

To address your complaints in order...

1: Why is this bad?

2: Dark and violent atmosphere is all wrong? What LoK games were you playing?

3: This game being made doesn't diminish the established story driven narrative, nor does it negate the possibility of a new game being made that contains a continuation of said story driven narrative.

4: The trailer states clearly that there will be story missions, but even if there were none, it would not matter.

5A: Who said anything about them being equals? Even in this game, the humans have to play smart or they'll be ripped to shreds.

5B: The Razielim were said to have been exterminated some time during the 500 year gap between when Raziel was thrown into the abyss, and when he awakened in the presence of the Elder God. This does not mean that they definitely were (Devs confirmed that there were possible plans to have them appear.) Nor does it mean that the extermination happened immediately. There is still a nearly 300 year gap between this game and when Raziel wakes up. More than enough time for the remaining "sons" of Kain to slaughter them.

This is not a pathetic excuse for a Legacy of Kain game, because it is not a Legacy of Kain game. It takes place in the same world, in a portion of the story we know little about where Kain is absent from the events we are seeing/playing.

Wraithblade6
29th Sep 2013, 21:02
This is a game about Kain's legacy, his progeny.

Enclave
29th Sep 2013, 21:09
To address your complaints in order...

1: Why is this bad?

Because it's a complete 100% departure from the genre the game has always been, and also happens to be a genre that doesn't allow for the strong story driven narrative the series is known and loved for.


2: Dark and violent atmosphere is all wrong? What LoK games were you playing?

After this? I'm tempted to not even bother reading the rest of your post if you're going to be this purposefully obtuse. Using your logic the games setting could be anything and still qualify as being correct as long as it's dark and violent. Hell, Harry Potter book 6 and 7 are dark and violent, I suppose that means those books have the perfect Legacy of Kain atmosphere eh?


3: This game being made doesn't diminish the established story driven narrative, nor does it negate the possibility of a new game being made that contains a continuation of said story driven narrative.

Wow are you naieve. Tell me, when has garbage like this being made resulted in a proper game being made at a later date? Every example I can think of? Has nothing to do with the garbage game doing well and rather everything to do with fan outrage and poor sales of the terrible game that should never have been made in the first place.


4: The trailer states clearly that there will be story missions, but even if there were none, it would not matter.

I've played competitive online shooters, the story is shallow and pathetic in every instance. We're not going to get anything remotely close to what we expect from this series and you know it.


5A: Who said anything about them being equals? Even in this game, the humans have to play smart or they'll be ripped to shreds.

The very nature of the genre requires the humans as being equals else it wouldn't be much of a COMPETITIVE shooter.


5B: The Razielim were said to have been exterminated some time during the 500 year gap between when Raziel was thrown into the abyss, and when he awakened in the presence of the Elder God. This does not mean that they definitely were (Devs confirmed that there were possible plans to have them appear.) Nor does it mean that the extermination happened immediately. There is still a nearly 300 year gap between this game and when Raziel waked up. More than enough time for the remaining "sons" of Kain to slaughter them.

As I recall there was the thought of having just 1 in Soul Reaver. Really, what makes the most sense would be they were all hunted immediately after Raziel was tossed in the lake. Sure some would survive for a while, but they'd be in hiding. They wouldn't be teaming up with their other brothers to fight the humans.


This is not a pathetic excuse for a Legacy of Kain game, because it is not a Legacy of Kain game. It takes place in the same world, in a portion of the story we know little about where Kain is absent from the events we are seeing/playing.

It's not called Legacy of Kain but it IS a Legacy of Kain game. So yes, it is a pathetic excuse for a LoK game. The developers should feel bad about making it and you should feel bad defending it. The game deserves the outrage and fan outrage is the only thing that could actually result in us getting what we actually want instead of his monstrosity.

ardethsilvereni
29th Sep 2013, 21:32
Complaint 5: Disrespect for the source material by blatantly ignoring the continuity errors (Humans didn't wage war on the Vampires as equals, Razielim were exterminated)Prior to Kain's empire, the humans of Nosgoth have driven the vampires to the edge of extinction twice. The Sarafan's Vampire purges, and the crusades of Moebius citizen army were pretty successful, to say nothing of the human uprising against the Ancients. I guess the earlier vampire hunters had the benefit of the Circle of Nine backing them up, and the SR1 humans have been subjugated so long, so maybe it's implausible. But is it really impossible that the humans of the SR1 era could swing the balance of power back in their favour? Is it impossible for them to match the vampires as equals in battle?

Vanyelxp5
29th Sep 2013, 21:35
Because it's a complete 100% departure from the genre the game has always been, and also happens to be a genre that doesn't allow for the strong story driven narrative the series is known and loved for.

The games, aside from the puzzles and cutscenes have always been very actiony. This game seems to feel very actiony.




After this? I'm tempted to not even bother reading the rest of your post if you're going to be this purposefully obtuse. Using your logic the games setting could be anything and still qualify as being correct as long as it's dark and violent. Hell, Harry Potter book 6 and 7 are dark and violent, I suppose that means those books have the perfect Legacy of Kain atmosphere eh?

Harry Potter 6 and 7 don't take place in the same world, and are dark in different ways.




Wow are you naieve. Tell me, when has garbage like this being made resulted in a proper game being made at a later date? Every example I can think of? Has nothing to do with the garbage game doing well and rather everything to do with fan outrage and poor sales of the terrible game that should never have been made in the first place.

It's only garbage if it doesn't work. Megaman Legends was a complete and utter departure from everything that Megaman was, hell, it wasn't even set in the same world. But it succeeded, and we got, not only a sequel, but more Megaman games to follow.




I've played competitive online shooters, the story is shallow and pathetic in every instance. We're not going to get anything remotely close to what we expect from this series and you know it.

So because the ones you're played have been that way, this one must be to? Ridiculous and illogical.




The very nature of the genre requires the humans as being equals else it wouldn't be much of a COMPETITIVE shooter.

Competitive doesn't always mean both sides are equal. In fact, if both sides were completely equal there would be no competition. Based on the trailer, vampires are stronger, more agile, and far more robust than their human counterparts. Based on the trailer, if a vampire can get into melee range, the human is dead. (An appropriate comparison would be using an overshield, sprint ability, and the sword on Halo.)




As I recall there was the thought of having just 1 in Soul Reaver. Really, what makes the most sense would be they were all hunted immediately after Raziel was tossed in the lake. Sure some would survive for a while, but they'd be in hiding. They wouldn't be teaming up with their other brothers to fight the humans.


Lets play a little what if here.

What if, after tossing Raziel into the abyss, Kain told his clan, that he sent Raziel off to do something important for him. Raziel was his right hand vamp, so this would not be unusual.

What if the lie kept Raziel's clan loyal to Kain until they learned the truth?

What if they didn't learn the truth until after the war with the humans was over?

If these scenarios were true, Kain would have no reason to execute them until later. Assuming that he actually did. The devs still never confirmed whether or not they were wiped out. All we know is that there weren't any in the clan's old territory, or anywhere else in the games we've seen (yet.)



It's not called Legacy of Kain but it IS a Legacy of Kain game. So yes, it is a pathetic excuse for a LoK game. The developers should feel bad about making it and you should feel bad defending it. The game deserves the outrage and fan outrage is the only thing that could actually result in us getting what we actually want instead of his monstrosity.


For it to be a Legacy of Kain game, it would have to continue the story in some manner, and would have to have Kain in the game as someone important to the current events... Legacy of Kain Blood omen you play as Kain. Legacy of Kain: Soul Reaver, he's the primary antagonist. Legacy of Kain: Soul Reaver 2, Kain is very present in the story, and for much of the game is still considered by the protagonist (Raziel) to be his primary enemy (in spite of not taking any of the opportunities given to kill him.) Legacy of Kain: Blood Omen 2, you play as Kain as he goes through the events created by the paradox at the end of Soul Reaver 2.

In this game, Kain is off doing his own thing to try to restore the pillars. Based on what we know so far, he will not be present at all, so his only importance to the game is the fact that he is the grandsire to every vampire in the game.

Vampmaster
29th Sep 2013, 21:49
As I recall there was the thought of having just 1 in Soul Reaver. Really, what makes the most sense would be they were all hunted immediately after Raziel was tossed in the lake. Sure some would survive for a while, but they'd be in hiding. They wouldn't be teaming up with their other brothers to fight the humans.

How many Razielim do you think there were? There could have been thousands or even millions that would have taken years to wipe out. You didn't base your estimate on the numbers of the other clans counted in SR1, did you? There's no way that could be a true representation of their numbers.

Also, Kain's "What I have made, I can also destroy child" could easilly be Kain's way of avoiding the question. He was clearly trying to goad Raziel into a fight at the time. What was he supposed to say? "Here. Let me bash you over the head with the deadliest weapon in existance, so you get to keep the wraith blade!" I mean Raziel was already pretty mad at Kain for the abyss, but I like to think Kain enjoyed winding Raziel up.


In this game, Kain is off doing his own thing to try to restore the pillars. Based on what we know so far, he will not be present at all, so his only importance to the game is the fact that he is the grandsire to every vampire in the game.

This game does however, show just important Kain is. It shows how great he is as an emperor for keeping the whole thing from tearing itself apart. It shows how bad things get without him and how crutial is it that he puts it right.

The_Hylden
29th Sep 2013, 22:56
People, play nice, or on both sides some infractions are going to come about.

Whether you agree with the game, or not, ALL have a right to voice that opinion. The developers actually are ENCOURAGING feedback, good or bad, as long as it remains RESPECTFUL. That means not only to them, but to EACH OTHER.

That comes from both sides. I don't want to read any more name calling, demeaning of each others' intelligence. Or anything of the sort. You continue to post here; you do so within the rules. Terms of Use (http://forums.eu.square-enix.com/announcement.php?f=97&a=1).

We have no more tolerance for these bickering sides here, understand?

Thanks.

Therealrabban
30th Sep 2013, 14:57
I sure do hope the humans have some sort of help. some wizard class.

Vampmaster
30th Sep 2013, 15:15
Complaint 1: It's a freakin' arena based 3rd person competitive shooter.
Complaint 2: The atmosphere is all wrong.
Complaint 3: Our wonderful story driven narrative is gone.
Complaint 4: No more having characters we love and no chance for new characters we love since this genre of game has no story worth speaking of.
Complaint 5: Disrespect for the source material by blatantly ignoring the continuity errors (Humans didn't wage war on the Vampires as equals, Razielim were exterminated)

I'd continue listing complaints but you don't actually care about them. You're just trying to find a way to dismiss me and others like me. For some reason you actually want this pathetic excuse for a Legacy of Kain game. I'm not going to just accept it though because it's a travesty.

Yes, I do want this to succeed because I believe it's the best chance there is at the moment of convincing the people with the money that it's worth the investment to make a proper sequel. I don't want to see any more installments of my favorite game series cancelled or the whole series delayed another 10 years just because people can't control their temper.

There are things I disagree with, such as the look of the vampire clans, but instead of lashing out I'm calmly making requests to get them changed. If I thought the extermination of the Razielim was instantaneous or that the 500-1000 years wasn't long enough for humans to build up their forces, I'd be complaining about that too.

BTW, my comment about "If you are going to complain..." wasn't specifically directed at you (it was sort of an in-addition) and was only a recommendation of what type of response would be most likely to be taken seriously, not a claim of any authority on my part.

Bazielim
6th Jul 2014, 10:54
This seems a bit of strange bump. All the comments here are from late September 2013 when the first official trailers and such had been released - it's understandable that people were a bit apprehensive at the time. By now I'd expect most of those people have had a chance to better understand what it's about and play.

And to clarify, Nosgoth was planned to be released alongside Dead Sun and was always going to reuse some of the same art assets. Nosgoth survived the cut and Dead Sun didn't, leading to the situation today.