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Xabtiz
26th Sep 2013, 23:57
Throughout your Facebook and YouTube 'forums,' I see many complaints from the original Legacy of Kain fans. Most believe that this game is a bad idea, or on some levels a complete disaster. I have even seen some plans for a boycott.

Personally, I believe that this game has some great potential. Even though it does not accurately follow the Legacy of Kain timeline, I think it could be great.

So my question to you is, what are you going to do to prevent players like the first section from interfering with the entertainment of players like me? I would like to be ensured that this game will not go through a total shutdown if several players do not enjoy it.

Reidbynature
27th Sep 2013, 00:07
I don't see others complaining ruining the game for others for the most part. It might be annoying for some people that some insist on being debbie downers, but the game will win or lose on its own merits and not because of some fanboys crying boycott on some forum.

onedeadchicken
27th Sep 2013, 00:14
I've been a big fan of the series since I was in Junior High, and the biggest draw to me was the story. As long as they add into the mythos of the Nosgoth universe and not try to mess with the timeline, or shoehorn stuff in, I'm cool. I don't think this game is a bad idea, and I think it's too early to tell if the game will be a 'complete disaster'.
Here's how you prevent elitist fanboys from ruining your enjoyment of this game: Ignore them. Don't feed the trolls.

LordMortanius
27th Sep 2013, 00:25
People have their opinions. This is not something to be feared. In this particular case alot of fan disappointment should have been expected due to the nature of both the situation and the end result. The problem fans have is that this will be the norm of the series rather then what the series is renowned for and until such time as the aforementioned is disproved (not speculated, disproved) they will continue to be upset. I know I would be but I am hoping this is not the case. I am willing to accept this as a renewal of the franchise and a nice way to get old fans excited for a fresh new 'Legacy of Kain' game to come in the near future. If SE can convey this then there will not be anymore problems and we can all enjoy this little gem while we wait.

Raziel_Rex
27th Sep 2013, 03:25
I don't think this game is a bad idea. I see more like a step into the Re-Birth of the series.

synesthasa
27th Sep 2013, 05:43
That's what I'm hoping also. I am one of the long time LOK fans that was highly disappointed (though I like to think I'm a little more balanced than to go on boycotts and getting enraged and the like *grin*)

I admit that I'm scratching my head about the choices made here, but what I think needs to happen is that the dev team needs to get it clearly across what the intention is here. Very clearly. If this game serves as a nice revival while they're working on something to continue the story, then I think this will be well received. If they're trying to take the entire franchise in this direction, *chuckles* then we have a problem.

All in all, I'm trying to stay positive and hopeful that we just simply don't have all the information, and that we will all be elated once we do. I guess we'll know on monday.

lucinvampire
27th Sep 2013, 08:01
I don’t think the negative fans can spoil it at this stage (hopefully)…and in time they may come around. I suppose the real test of its success will be when the game is released and the sales figures come through…I personal hope the game is a success – it is good even though different! :D

CountEyokir
27th Sep 2013, 08:03
Have fun with your multiplayer arena. When there are characters with emotional weight to them that you get invested in instead of fighting generics, let me know

lucinvampire
27th Sep 2013, 08:19
Yes I know I will…I’ve already been lucky enough to have the pleasure of playing it for a brief time and will definitely be getting it on day of release. It may not be story driven (and yes my love to LoK is in this) but it is fun and is great to play with other members of the community and strength the bond with other LoKers.

I just say give the game a try…you might actually like it :D

CountEyokir
27th Sep 2013, 09:29
I will be playing this game, largly to stay that I have. Whether its fun as a multiplayer or not is sort of irrelevant. Socialising is NOT what I go to Legacy of Kain for. Lok challenged my concepts of fate, religion, the nature of free will and got me to think VERY outside the box in my own creative development. This ..does not. Fighting vampire generics vs fighting human generics. Fun to play perhaps if you enjoyed team fortress 2 but not what made LOK fun, regardless of how gothic they make it look. Plus you could pretend this game and its wars doesn't exist, and never happened and it would affect the other games and history of the world not even slightly. So again, call me when there are characters with emotional weight and events with any actual consequence.

RainaAudron
27th Sep 2013, 10:19
It is multi-player game after all, you can´t expect those SP elements in such game... Anyway, it´s free to try and nobody forces you either.

CountEyokir
27th Sep 2013, 10:23
Then why be invested as a LOK fan? Btw, love the look of your SR 1 remake.

RainaAudron
27th Sep 2013, 10:29
I am interested because it takes place in its universe, shows what happened during Raziel´s absence, has the clans and humans from that period, and I also like playing mp games in general. But I understand that players who are solely single-player focused might be disappointed, yes.

Oh, thank you! It´s lots of fun and hardship, but I enjoy working on it :)

Vampmaster
27th Sep 2013, 10:32
Then why be invested as a LOK fan? Btw, love the look of your SR 1 remake.

The gameplay could be fun and I'm looking forward to seeing areas of Nosgoth that I haven't seen before and any new bits of lore that can be fit in between the matches. There's some nostalgia to it as well and if the game does well, it could eventually lead to a new single player game being make.

CountEyokir
27th Sep 2013, 10:37
Having it take place in the universe makes it worth my attention to look at but since all I see is events that are irrelevant, with no consequence and are interchangeable with assuming it doesn't happen, I am simply going to assume it to be un-canon. There is no reason for me not to. While I am glad some fans can have fun playing as Clan vampires (lets admit it people, we have no interest in the humans), this is still something nobody asked for.

Are you going to include new areas, enemies, powerups, cut content or is it cut a HD update with improved handling?

RainaAudron
27th Sep 2013, 10:49
I think Nosgoth deserves the chance to be at least tried and then you can decide if it´s worth your further time. I think it provides an interesting insight as to how the battle between humans and vampires was going on during the decay of Kain´s empire. During the play sessions, my team was actually having a lot of fun playing as humans. It was pretty tense as we were waiting for the vampires to take us on, trying to stay close to each other, while vampires were leaping above us.

Most of your questions are answered here: http://theancientsden.blogspot.sk/2013/08/soul-revenant-faq-update-and-screenshots.html but in short, yes, I plan to include cut areas, they will have to come last though, together with enviromental textures enhancements. Firstly, the focus is to make a working build with all the basic actions in place.

CountEyokir
27th Sep 2013, 10:56
I will also play it. I've signed up for the BETA. But whether it is good or not in terms of multiplayer gameplay is irrelevant. Its a spinoff and alt universe, simply because its lore its interchangeable with nothing happening at all.

CountEyokir
27th Sep 2013, 10:57
Awesome - I will certainly want to play that when its done. What do you need in terms of team talent?

Vampmaster
27th Sep 2013, 11:03
I will also play it. I've signed up for the BETA. But whether it is good or not in terms of multiplayer gameplay is irrelevant. Its a spinoff and alt universe, simply because its lore its interchangeable with nothing happening at all.

Why claim it's an alternate universe if there's no way to tell it from the original. You said yourself the outcome is the same either way. Spinoff does not mean non-canon, it just means a different perspective on the same world/events. I'm not involved in your life apart from these forums, but that doesn't mean I'm in an alternate reality.

CountEyokir
27th Sep 2013, 11:08
I am not claiming it IS in an alt universe officially. I say this is what I think it should be because its history, lore and general worth in terms of continuality amount to nothing. A basic rule of any writer is, if a set of events or characters contribute nothing to the story then why have them in at all? I am working, again this my own preference, on this basis

Lord_Aevum
27th Sep 2013, 11:12
CountEyokir, if you know the lore of the LoK universe well you'll know that there isn't actually any scope for alternate universes within it due to its temporal logic. so it's simply either a moot story or it isn't.

CountEyokir
27th Sep 2013, 11:14
To me, its moot and as such has no purpose. But other people will enjoy it so I say alternative universe for their benefit

Vampmaster
27th Sep 2013, 11:14
I am not claiming it IS in an alt universe officially. I say this is what I think it should be because its history, lore and general worth in terms of continuality amount to nothing. A basic rule of any writer is, if a set of events or characters contribute nothing to the story then why have them in at all? I am working, again this my own preference, on this basis

Canon *means* official. To say it's not cannon means it's unofficial.

lucinvampire
27th Sep 2013, 11:16
@ CountEyokir – I do know exactly what you mean I feel/felt the same but that doesn’t take away that this game is good and enjoyable. I would love for there to be a “proper” LoK game (I still really hold hope for this) because that is what drew me to the series and contains all what I love about it. Nosgoth is the only online game I will have played (properly)…I come from a single-player-adventure game play background and don’t usually look outside that box – I don’t play games to socialise but the amazing LoK community has made me want to now! Heh and I might be singing another tune though when the game comes out…because people can be annoying – and I game to be anti-social heh.
(sorry for not quoting – it currently crashes my computer)

CountEyokir
27th Sep 2013, 11:18
Yes, I know this. However I can't consider this canon myself (and this is my personal reason why, feel free to disagree) because it adds nothing and is interchangeable with what we assumed happened before. My razor of relevance, if you will

CountEyokir
27th Sep 2013, 11:37
So what? Good and enjoyable are irrelevant to my point. Without the deep characters and development of their personalities and story, this is a vampire death match with legacy of Kain flavouring, to me at least. I played some online multiplayers - the multiplayer mode of Transformers Fall of Cybertron. Such a multiplayer fit this franchise and such a transition to this form of gameplay makes sense. Doing it for Lok however does not. Its like Sonic the hedgehog being turned into a first person cover based shooter. But this of course is only my two cents on it. I keep being told 'its not a proper LoK game, but its still enjoyable.'. Well I'm glad we all agree that this is NOT a proper Legacy of Kain game and honestly, I think there is little hope there will be single player game after this. Either it will tank and the franchise abandoned again, or more multiplayer games will be knocked out - Nosgoth 2

WarofPies
27th Sep 2013, 11:45
I am also concered with the censurship in other media when people voice out their opinions but at least the forusm might remain true, but I can't shake the feeling of this being a milk the franchise specialy with all the rumour stating that Nosgoth , that once known as War for Nosgoth is the multiplayer component of Legacy of Kain : Dead Sun created by Psyonix, that got canceled because the game wouldn’t reach a certain number of sales expectations, if I knew about this game I would buy it for the triple of it's price.
They milk old francises and ruin good ones in the process.
True some games like Shifter that got canceled which in turn gave us Soul Reaver and then this "game", but i can't shake this feeling of dread, many of us been waiting for a game of the legacy of kain series, I am not sure if I want to support this game, this feels like the Dragon Age 2 fiasco where they rushed out a product to have make for SWOTOR and every one knows how well both games turned out >_>

What I NEED is reasurange if this game will enable a growth of the Legacy of Kain francise, making other games, if so I will buy it even to show my continuous support, and play a bit from time to time, even if this is not my cup of undead zombie cow milk by product, but if this is the end of the line and continuaty of the francise will only be this game and more cancelations of previous liked games. Then... you really have to sell it for me, to buy my 17, SEVENTTEN, year old dedication to the series.

CountEyokir
27th Sep 2013, 11:48
Yes - this is the only little piece of silver lining for a lot of fans - the possibility that this might generate a proper game later on. Being British however, I remain cynical of even that

Vampmaster
27th Sep 2013, 11:57
Then... you really have to sell it for me, to buy my 19, NINETTEN, year old dedication to the series.

Blood Omen was released in 1997. That only makes 16 years,

88chaz88
27th Sep 2013, 12:09
Its like Sonic the hedgehog being turned into a first person cover based shooter.

Or like Sonic turned into a racing game (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonic_Drift), or a fighting game (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonic_the_Fighters), or a puzzle game (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dr._Robotnik%27s_Mean_Bean_Machine), or a pinball game (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonic_the_Hedgehog_Spinball).

Lets face it, that was not the best example to use for your argument.

CountEyokir
27th Sep 2013, 12:11
Not really. None of those spin offs were ... well received and popular and certainly didn't take the blue boy in a new direction did they?

lucinvampire
27th Sep 2013, 12:14
@ CountEyokir … I do completely understand and know where you are coming from :D
Noooooooooooo please don’t shatter my sweet illusion that one day there will be a continuation to Kain’s legacy *goes off and rocks back and forth in the corner and dribbles a bit*

CountEyokir
27th Sep 2013, 12:20
Well call me when there is one. I don't like to toot my own horn but I am a bit Lok fanfiction writer. Currently in the middle of my own Lok magnum opus. I was a little worried this games lore would render part of my works incorrect. Not so much anymore. Its lore is so bland or lack thereof, that I ignore this game and keep going with I had planned to explain the Razielim disappearance and the fall of the Ash village (ps - this is not the rant of an angry fanfiction writing fanboy)

88chaz88
27th Sep 2013, 12:31
Not really. None of those spin offs were ... well received and popular and certainly didn't take the blue boy in a new direction did they?

How many Sonic games are well received? And Nosgoth isn't taking Kain, nor Raziel, nor the series into a new direction, it is thus far a spinoff, nothing more.

CountEyokir
27th Sep 2013, 12:34
So long as it remains thus and doesn't spawn more multiplayers, then I suppose its harmless but I still see little to no worth in its lore

WarofPies
27th Sep 2013, 21:17
Blood Omen was released in 1997. That only makes 16 years,

1996 and there was the 1994 canceled version but you are right I should not count on the 1994 date, got distracted in my rant

Avraxeal
11th Jun 2014, 03:48
I personally believe that the purpose of Nosgoth is to create enough hype and supporters to finish or respark the Legacy of Kain series after those earlier attempts had been denied. This, no matter how much of the wrong kind of attention they may gather from a different kind of gamer, may be the only way at this point.

RealLoK
12th Jun 2014, 22:19
I personally believe that the purpose of Nosgoth is to create enough hype and supporters to finish or respark the Legacy of Kain series after those earlier attempts had been denied. This, no matter how much of the wrong kind of attention they may gather from a different kind of gamer, may be the only way at this point.


Right, because the best way to spark interest in a franchise is to release something that has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.

Varulven
12th Jun 2014, 22:22
Haters gonna hate...

RealLoK
12th Jun 2014, 22:58
Haters gonna hate...

I merely defend what I love. I tried to give it a chance. I really did. But it's not Legacy of Kain. It will NEVER be.

Varulven
12th Jun 2014, 23:07
I will never try to force you to like or love 'Nosgoth'.
But expect you to tolerate that therer a re people who love the Game. ;)

GenFeelGood
13th Jun 2014, 14:44
I came into this, a die hard Legacy of Kain fan, ever since Soul Reaver and probably for life. I would check the web, from time to time, ever since Defiance; and look for signs the next game was coming. I won't deny, after 10 year of this wait, I was disheartened to see that this was what all that waiting was for. I was among the many to cry BLASPHEMY upon first hearing the news, but I was also curious about this as well. So, for the first time in my life, I tried to get access to alpha testing to see what was what and the gameplay even back then impressed me. Once you get past the disappoint of it not being the follow up to Defiance this is actually one of the more unique team based multiplayers out there, this isn't a cut and past multiplayer that uses the series as a gimmicky sell point.

With regard to the place the lore of the Legacy of Kain has in the game. While they did take certain liberties, it only occurs in gray areas, where things were more suggested than recorded as fact. You can tell that these guys have been very considerate of our concerns over this ruining the lore with inconsistencies like Blood Omen 2 did, they haven't put out anything that isn't within the realm of possibility. You can also tell that there are those within the teams behind this that truly appreciate the lore, listening to George Kelion talk about the game and lore with such enthusiasm and passion really convinced me of this and I miss him for it.

At this point, the game can go anywhere. It could restart the series by picking up where Defiance left off or trigger a complete reboot. We could also end up with solo/co-op campaign centered around this game, like Gears of War. Whatever comes next, its only likely to come if this works out. After a decade of trying, stopping, and starting over fresh, the people on the top floor have to be tired of putting money into something that hasn't even made it to beta testing til now.

Give this game a chance and if its not for you then move on and hold out hope that what you want for the series can come down the line once this is a success and proves that the series can sell among us fans as well as the newer generations of gamers. Working to get this game cancelled won't bring the series back faster, if anything it could be the final nail in the coffin.

Taisuru
19th Jun 2014, 13:15
As a pretty big fan of the series I'm happy with it, and definitely happy that I was able to show some support for maybe a new mainline game some time in the future.

TheM4v3r1cX
19th Jun 2014, 14:45
I've been a fan of the LoK Series since i played Soul Reaver on the PSX and man, there's nothing wrong with this game. I love it so far and i can't understand people who hate it without even giving it a chance.

Btw, i'm gonna take this chance to ask something - Assuming we're on the same Kain/Raziel storyline from the previous games, in which era this game take place? I read somewhere that this war happened while Raziel was dead, but it doesn't seem to fit well to me

Lord_Aevum
19th Jun 2014, 15:06
I read somewhere that this war happened while Raziel was dead

Bingo!

GenFeelGood
19th Jun 2014, 15:08
Btw, i'm gonna take this chance to ask something - Assuming we're on the same Kain/Raziel storyline from the previous games, in which era this game take place? I read somewhere that this war happened while Raziel was dead, but it doesn't seem to fit well to me

This game takes place in the time after Raziel gets thrown into the abyss a vampire and returns from it a wraith in Soul Reaver. Roughly a 1000 years passed between Raziel's damnation and resurrection at the start of Soul Reaver and this game centers what occurred in this time period.

Sanguise23
19th Jun 2014, 21:17
about 300 years after raz is thrown in the abyss but before he is resurrected

Chaz_Darkbane
20th Jun 2014, 14:25
Personally I wasn't completely sold on this game until I saw the sentinels. Any descendants of Raziel are cool in my book.

LOKDOA
21st Jun 2014, 07:56
Honestly, I'm so disgusted with this idea to turn Legacy of Kain into a mindless multiplayer that I'll never touch another Square Enix product ever again until they treat this franchise properly. I've even gone as far as to reject any free Square Enix titles offered via my PlayStation Plus subscription. All Nosgoth is is a yet another COD wannabe, and what happens with over 90% of COD wannabes? They fail, and that's what this game will do. Why will it fail? Because Kain is supposed to be a rich well written single player experience not mindless multiplayer drivel. Square Enix really should've given Dead Sun a chance, after three plus years in development it had to have been close to being finished. It was supposed to be a PS4 launch title, and with the majority of the 23 released launch titles being PS3 ports, Dead Sun could've made some decent money in the wake of the typical slow first year of a new console. But again, Square Enix didn't think this through and when Nosgoth fails, they'll only have themselves to blame. The sad part about this travesty is that the real losers in this won't be Square Enix but it'll be fellow Kain series fans like myself because when Nosgoth tanks it'll be the final nail in the coffin for this franchise. Square Enix, I'm sorry but you've lost my business until you treat the Legacy of Kain series properly.

CountEyokir
21st Jun 2014, 08:16
Honestly, I'm so disgusted with this idea to turn Legacy of Kain into a mindless multiplayer that I'll never touch another Square Enix product ever again until they treat this franchise properly. I've even gone as far as to reject any free Square Enix titles offered via my PlayStation Plus subscription. All Nosgoth is is a yet another COD wannabe, and what happens with over 90% of COD wannabes? They fail, and that's what this game will do. Why will it fail? Because Kain is supposed to be a rich well written single player experience not mindless multiplayer drivel. Square Enix really should've given Dead Sun a chance, after three plus years in development it had to have been close to being finished. It was supposed to be a PS4 launch title, and with the majority of the 23 released launch titles being PS3 ports, Dead Sun could've made some decent money in the wake of the typical slow first year of a new console. But again, Square Enix didn't think this through and when Nosgoth fails, they'll only have themselves to blame. The sad part about this travesty is that the real losers in this won't be Square Enix but it'll be fellow Kain series fans like myself because when Nosgoth tanks it'll be the final nail in the coffin for this franchise. Square Enix, I'm sorry but you've lost my business until you treat the Legacy of Kain series properly.

I agree with you mostly however trust me ---- Dead Sun was NOT a good idea. I know a little bit more about its terrible story then most so trust me on this....it would have been WORSE for the series then Nosgoth is. The fact Dead Sun was cancelled is in fact a bullet dodged - a bullet the size of bullet bill.

Bazielim
21st Jun 2014, 09:44
Constructive. We'd all love a new story based LoK, but it's time to join in or move on now. Nosgoth simply isn't the travesty you claim because you dislike the genre - it's an expansion of the world and the universe into uncharted territory. I've never seen devs go to such lengths to revive and get right a long dormant franchise and to listen to their fans. You have to understand Nosgoth is not standing opposite CoD, it's doing something very different.

Despite your claims, it's very likely Nosgoth will be a success - you just have to choose whether to be involved in that or not - it's already doing well on the business side and it's inducted a tonne of new fans to the world (and let's be brutally honest fan numbers and gameplay were where the old games were falling down) - there are now people who had never heard of LoK digging into the lore and playing the old games because of Nosgoth and conversely there are those who've never played or liked multiplayers who are now getting into those because of it.

Believe me, they know of the story etc concerns of Kain fans... and yes Dead Sun perhaps wasn't the best course of action, but you can't blame them for picking up the pieces that did work (and boy do they work) and doing something inventive and fun with them. No, we're not getting a SP story game yet but Nosgoth is the ticket - were it to somehow miraculously turn a corner backwards and be considered a failure then it'd kill the franchise completely not get you the sp. There is a desire to get it done, you just have to show support. In future I'd expect there to be a new SP at some point in future (and no doubt people complaining about that) and personally I wouldn't be adverse to Nosgoth 2 as well - but it's not even out of beta- it's a fledgling - that kind of talk is years away. Just be patient and if you really don't want to join your brethren in game, then just wait it out.