PDA

View Full Version : Gameplay / Developers



exodus1337
26th Sep 2013, 16:23
This game absolutley looks amazing and has fluid gameplay. I noticed it is very similar to the HL1 Mod, Vampire Slayer. This was an epic mod for its time... Here is a gameplay video just incase you havent seen it...

http://youtu.be/cpQ7UQxEe_E?t=17s
http://youtu.be/IUxVA-o1K04?t=2m19s


One thing VS did very successfully is it allowed air strafing.. When you jumped in the air you could move around by looking a direction and using your left and right keys at the same time... They also allowed 3rd and first person which I think more games should do since that is a huge personal preference... And the last thing that was very unique is there was a time limit after a human shot a vampire in which they had to steak it. If you missed the time limit the vampire would revive and could get away... Just a thought, I think if development could implement these two features it will make the game that much more fun. If you guys have time check out the game play and tell me what you think? I know you guys want to be involved with the community and I like that...

WrecktalDefiler
26th Sep 2013, 16:36
Loved that game, and I like your ideas... but I think that if the humans had to stake the vampires it would cause a pretty large balance issue. I say that because it seems like the ranged mechanic relies on staying far away, so if the sniper character was to nail a vampire from across the battlefield then he would have to run all the way over to stake him, setting himself up to be surrounded by the enemy.

exodus1337
26th Sep 2013, 16:59
Yeah your right, that wouldnt make sense... I kinda hated being a human because I would miss the steak... But its fun when you get to auto revived as a vampire... Scratch that idea but the strafing and first person I am still voting... lol :) ... its all about personalization and customization, right?!?! :)

Rynfear
26th Sep 2013, 17:12
From a thematic perspective, vampires should require some form of execution. From a gameplay perspective, it's a very sensitive issue.

Air strafing is right out though. It's not that kind of game.

exodus1337
26th Sep 2013, 17:34
Its clearly that kinda of game.. When you leap forward as a vampire it makes sense to have air strafing to control the characters movement in the air... Otherwise the character movement will feel very linear and limited...

Rynfear
26th Sep 2013, 17:50
It's not a game in which you can hover in the air while you cover ground. Jumps will likely be short and quick, not quake-like - if you can even jump freely at all.

exodus1337
26th Sep 2013, 17:58
mmmmm

Psyonix_Corey
26th Sep 2013, 18:05
Hi guys - I can chime in here a bit! I'm Corey, and I'm a designer from Psyonix working on Nosgoth.

Air Control - We offer limited air control on abilities that do significant jumps. You can see in the video a segment where our Tyrant class jumps high into the air to slam down on a group of humans. You have some "aftertouch" in the air so you can guide your jump a little bit, but most of the skill comes from knowing where to start it from.

1st and 3rd Person - Currently we only support third person view. I totally get the desire to go first person, but from a development perspective it's a serious investment of time and money to make it look and feel just as good as third person. Further, we found the situational awareness you get playing in third person crucial to both teams. As a human, you can react to vampires approaching from the sides/behind much more rapidly. As a vampire, it's a lot easier to melee attack and pivot in third person, especially in group fights.

Staking Vampires - We tried this early on in development, but as mentioned by others in the thread, it has its downsides. It's especially punishing to longer range classes like the Scout that specialize in sniping. It takes a lot of the satisfaction out of shooting down a flying Sentinel with your bow if you have to then hike across half the map to hopefully stake him.

We'll get into this more on the blog as more information is revealed by George K. and myself, but our vampires do have a limited regeneration mechanic that the humans lack. This means as a vampire, if you're able to escape, you can recuperate a percentage of your health and return to the fight. Vampires can also execute humans, drinking their blood to restore a larger chunk of health - you can see this in the video on a few occasions. All told this makes our vampires pretty resilient.

WrecktalDefiler
26th Sep 2013, 18:26
Hey Corey, I realize that the Q&A is on Monday but since I have some questions regarding game play and you seem to be somewhat monitoring this thread maybe you can answer a few of them in case they don't get covered on Monday?

- Will spell casting and auto attacks be targeted or used as skill shots, like the difference between World of Warcraft and Smite?

- What kind of an item system can we expect to see in the game, if there even is one? If so will it be similar to that of MOBA style games?

- Will there be different scenarios to play, such as a capture the flag or king of the hill? And if so, how do you intend to incorporate them into the game without taking away from the authenticity of the experience?

- Will there be any NPC's in the game that you can get xp from? Is there even an xp system where you get gold and xp from killing people/NPC's?

Rynfear
26th Sep 2013, 18:31
@WrecktalDefiler: you're thinking too much of an MMO. I haven't played the game, but it looks more like a shooter to me. That means no NPCs and direct aiming mechanics.

@Psyonix_Corey: have you considered something like a melee weapon human class with the ability to perform executions? Like in old Soul Reaver: spears, torches etc.

Psyonix_Corey
26th Sep 2013, 18:42
Hey Corey, I realize that the Q&A is on Monday but since I have some questions regarding game play and you seem to be somewhat monitoring this thread maybe you can answer a few of them in case they don't get covered on Monday?

- Will spell casting and auto attacks be targeted or used as skill shots, like the difference between World of Warcraft and Smite?
We are a lot more like Smite than World of Warcraft or FORGE, which I've seen mentioned a lot in relation lately. Everything is directly targeted by the player, and most offensive abilities are projectiles that you have to aim.


- What kind of an item system can we expect to see in the game, if there even is one? If so will it be similar to that of MOBA style games?
We have an item system but it's closer to that of Team Fortress 2 than a MOBA. You don't buy items in-match that go away afterwards like in League of Legends. Your inventory is persistent, and you can find or buy items with statistical variances to customize your playstyle. It's important to note we are not "Pay 2 Win", so all unlocks and item finds are either "sidegrades" or cosmetic only. A player who dumps a bunch of money on items won't have any advantage over you if you don't.


- Will there be different scenarios to play, such as a capture the flag or king of the hill? And if so, how do you intend to incorporate them into the game without taking away from the authenticity of the experience?
I can't talk about modes just yet, but we fully intend to support a variety of scenarios, adding over time.
It's really important to us and Square-Enix to not undercut the franchise and atmosphere by having Vampires suddenly running a bright red flag to a rainbow sparkling capture point. When we announce modes we can go into this in more detail, but rest assured it's a major concern during development.


- Will there be any NPC's in the game that you can get xp from? Is there even an xp system where you get gold and xp from killing people/NPC's?
We have an XP/progression system and you do earn gold, but there are no NPCs in Nosgoth currently.

Psyonix_Corey
26th Sep 2013, 18:43
@Psyonix_Corey: have you considered something like a melee weapon human class with the ability to perform executions? Like in old Soul Reaver: spears, torches etc.

We have DEFINITELY considered this. A spear class would be really cool. Unfortunately melee vs. melee is really tough to get right. Imagine you're a vampire, confident in your close-range melee supremacy, and you come up against a spear-and-shield wielding human melee class. Who wins such a battle?

I think there's a way to do it, but we had to focus on the stuff that was working well for the initial launch. It's definitely something we'd like to look into for future content releases.

Limed00d
26th Sep 2013, 18:44
(...)
We have an item system but it's closer to that of Team Fortress 2 than a MOBA. You don't buy items in-match that go away afterwards like in League of Legends. Your inventory is persistent, and you can find or buy items with statistical variances to customize your playstyle. It's important to note we are not "Pay 2 Win", so all unlocks and item finds are either "sidegrades" or cosmetic only. A player who dumps a bunch of money on items won't have any advantage over you if you don't.
(...)
We have an XP/progression system and you do earn gold, but there are no NPCs in Nosgoth currently.

Ah man now I'm hyped.

WrecktalDefiler
26th Sep 2013, 18:44
@psyonix_corey- Thank you, that cleared a lot of things up for me!

Rynfear
26th Sep 2013, 18:51
We have DEFINITELY considered this. A spear class would be really cool. Unfortunately melee vs. melee is really tough to get right. Imagine you're a vampire, confident in your close-range melee supremacy, and you come up against a spear-and-shield wielding human melee class. Who wins such a battle?

Well, there's a lot of ways to how you can answer that question, most of which depend on design information I'm not privy to as well as the number of ways you can approach a situation. The simple answer would be "skill", ideally.

But I understand that a melee-on-melee 3rd person shooter approach is a complex affair that needs more work than your average gunfight to be on the same level of enjoyment.

Thanks for taking the time to answer.

Psyonix_Corey
26th Sep 2013, 18:55
Well, there's a lot of ways to how you can answer that question, most of which depend on design information I'm not privy to as well as the number of ways you can approach a situation. The simple answer would be "skill", ideally.

But I understand that a melee-on-melee 3rd person shooter approach is a complex affair that needs more work than your average gunfight to be on the same level of enjoyment.

Thanks for taking the time to answer.

The obvious analog would be Dark Souls, which had its faults in online PvP (backstab, etc.) but had a pretty satisfying melee vs. melee interaction. The tough part for us is that if vampires aren't inherently advantaged in melee range, it starts to unbalance the teams given that the rest of the humans are designed for ranged superiority.

One idea we considered, but haven't explored further, was designing a human melee class built as a support/protector role. So he wouldn't be able to outdamage a Vampire 1-on-1, but could do interesting (and skill-based) things with shield blocking, stuns to protect teammates, etc.

Rynfear
26th Sep 2013, 19:10
The obvious analog would be Dark Souls, which had its faults in online PvP (backstab, etc.) but had a pretty satisfying melee vs. melee interaction. The tough part for us is that if vampires aren't inherently advantaged in melee range, it starts to unbalance the teams given that the rest of the humans are designed for ranged superiority.

One idea we considered, but haven't explored further, was designing a human melee class built as a support/protector role. So he wouldn't be able to outdamage a Vampire 1-on-1, but could do interesting (and skill-based) things with shield blocking, stuns to protect teammates, etc.
Glad you mentioned Dark Souls, it's one of my favourites and a game well worth getting inspiration out of.

I think looking at it in a vacuum isn't the best thing to do. Vampires have inherent advantages compared to humans: wall-climbing, flying, speed, charge moves, resillience and so on. Perhaps making executions situational (i.e. vampire stunned, burned, low on health), having the class work better when flanking or taking something by surprise, or having other disadvantages that can be offset situationally will work. I mean, no class-based team game will ever be balanced for 1v1 so thinking in terms of "outdamage" is silly. A scout won't hold his own against a heavy in TF2, but if a scout uses the terrain to his advantage (taking potshots in and out of doorways, flanking, jumping over etc) it's very possible for the scout to win. This kind of emergent situational gameplay is what I'd like to see our of any class-based competitive game.

Vampmaster
26th Sep 2013, 19:41
We have DEFINITELY considered this. A spear class would be really cool. Unfortunately melee vs. melee is really tough to get right. Imagine you're a vampire, confident in your close-range melee supremacy, and you come up against a spear-and-shield wielding human melee class. Who wins such a battle?

I think there's a way to do it, but we had to focus on the stuff that was working well for the initial launch. It's definitely something we'd like to look into for future content releases.

I mentioned on the eidos forums about having the spear as an ability that (as with any other) needs to recharge between use and Divine Shadow mentioned somethimg similar about a harpoon. Spears could be restricted to use as a thowing weapon that is lethal, but much slower to use than the crossbow.


Perhaps making executions situational (i.e. vampire stunned, burned, low on health

^^Fond memories of SR1. I've been saying there should be more interaction with the environment.