PDA

View Full Version : Character Models



xeikai
26th Sep 2013, 00:30
I'm curious, the vampires look sexless, are there female/male versions of the vampires like there is of the hunters? On another note I'm quite excited for this game. Back in the day I used to play the Vampire Slayer mod religiously and this looks like it may be similar but vastly improved. I cant wait to see what you guys come up with, really excited here.

MasterShuriko
26th Sep 2013, 00:46
I'm curious, the vampires look sexless, are there female/male versions of the vampires like there is of the hunters? On another note I'm quite excited for this game. Back in the day I used to play the Vampire Slayer mod religiously and this looks like it may be similar but vastly improved. I cant wait to see what you guys come up with, really excited here.

I know there used to be female Vampires (atleast if I go with the info that was provided since Blood Omen series)
Dunno if we will see any in this game though

Abolist
26th Sep 2013, 00:47
It looks like they have evolved past a noticeable sexuality. In just a few hundred more years they look like monsters.

MasterShuriko
26th Sep 2013, 01:20
It looks like they have evolved past a noticeable sexuality. In just a few hundred more years they look like monsters.

Such a shame =( there were some nice looking Vampire-women in the series <3

WraithShadow13
26th Sep 2013, 07:12
I was wondering about things like possible customization, or if there were different characters we would be playing as. Given what is being reiterated in the Razielim, thread, i was a little surprised by the Clan's new mutated look.

Limed00d
26th Sep 2013, 07:15
Such a shame =( there were some nice looking Vampire-women in the series <3

There weren't many hot vampire females (unless you count the murals).
And I find Umah unattractive.
Now this;

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20121227192612/legacyofkain/images/9/9f/SR2-FemaleVampire-CloseUp.png

Hot.


I was wondering about things like possible customization, or if there were different characters we would be playing as. Given what is being reiterated in the Razielim, thread, i was a little surprised by the Clan's new mutated look.


The game's still in alpha and the design is probably subject to change. Judging from a few shots of the Razielim class, there'll be some sort of customization (One shot had the Razielim with feathery wings not unlike the Ancients)

The_Hylden
26th Sep 2013, 07:18
... I'm not sure what about these vampires shows you that they're sexless, asexual, etc. :/ They're all clearly male vampires, rough and brutal-looking males at that.

As it stands currently, there are no female vampires playable. They did mention they'll reveal more about possible customization options, so let's hope more options for different looks, sizes, weight, sexes, etc., will come down the line.

Moesph
26th Sep 2013, 09:18
so let's hope more options for different looks, sizes, weight, sexes, etc., will come down the line.
I want a grossly overweight Zephonim, make my dreams a reality!

MasterShuriko
26th Sep 2013, 09:46
There weren't many hot vampire females (unless you count the murals).
And I find Umah unattractive.
Now this;

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20121227192612/legacyofkain/images/9/9f/SR2-FemaleVampire-CloseUp.png

Hot.




The game's still in alpha and the design is probably subject to change. Judging from a few shots of the Razielim class, there'll be some sort of customization (One shot had the Razielim with feathery wings not unlike the Ancients)

You have to look past the pixels ;)

Reidbynature
26th Sep 2013, 10:06
The devolved vampires of SR1 are all arguably sexless (or at least hard to sex due to their appearance), but Nosgoth's vampires seem pretty obviously male to me.

I wouldn't mind seeing some female choices for the vampires in Nosgoth. Mind you I think either side should ideally have both male and female options if possible.

dethica
26th Sep 2013, 14:26
the lack of half naked females is a welcome change. if females will get introduced into the game at some point, I hope they will at least wear some armor.

Psyonix_Corey
26th Sep 2013, 18:22
We don't currently have male/female versions of the classes. We'd really like to add a female Vampire class in the future. Ideally the split would be closer to 50/50, but we're happy to be launching with at least one badass female character with practical armor :)

Limed00d
26th Sep 2013, 18:24
We don't currently have male/female versions of the classes. We'd really like to add a female Vampire class in the future. Ideally the split would be closer to 50/50, but we're happy to be launching with at least one badass female character with practical armor :)

What?! What about my hot, but totally not protective metal bikinis?! The game's RUINED.

MrMilky
26th Sep 2013, 19:50
There're a lot of female gamers who like LoK games, even though Nosgoth isn't a LoK game. At least this should've been implemented from the start.
So I'd play Dumahim and my wife plays female alchemist? :mad: Not cool!
Actually I know a lot of guys playing female characters in WoW for an example. So I'm up for having a female character in Nosgoth. I can't think of a possible reason not to have one if Nosgoth was a separate game from Dead Sun. :)

Edit : I think that all the female gamers who're familiar with LoK will want to play as female vampires.

Rynfear
26th Sep 2013, 20:06
There're a lot of female gamers who like LoK games, even though Nosgoth isn't a LoK game. At least this should've been implemented from the start.
So I'd play Dumahim and my wife plays female alchemist? :mad: Not cool!
Actually I know a lot of guys playing female characters in WoW for an example. So I'm up for having a female character in Nosgoth. I can't think of a possible reason not to have one if Nosgoth was a separate game from Dead Sun. :)

Edit : I think that all the female gamers who're familiar with LoK will want to play as female vampires.

They've played LoK as 2 decidedly male protagonists for so long and now they're getting all antsy about wanting their character to be female?


Half-kidding, but still. This will be a competitive game trying to get into esports. Classes need to be recognizable at first glance.

Psyonix_Corey
26th Sep 2013, 20:18
There're a lot of female gamers who like LoK games, even though Nosgoth isn't a LoK game. At least this should've been implemented from the start.
So I'd play Dumahim and my wife plays female alchemist? :mad: Not cool!
Actually I know a lot of guys playing female characters in WoW for an example. So I'm up for having a female character in Nosgoth. I can't think of a possible reason not to have one if Nosgoth was a separate game from Dead Sun. :)

Edit : I think that all the female gamers who're familiar with LoK will want to play as female vampires.

I think it's a totally fair point. That said, it's not very common to see male/female versions of playable characters except in MMOs. Team Fortress 2 features only males. You can't play a male/female version of heroes in DOTA 2 or League of Legends. Call of Duty:Ghosts is just now getting around to adding female soldiers, which is commendable for sure, but they have an astronomical budget and scope.

To your point about Dead Sun, this actually adds to why we don't have gender selection per class. When we were still linked to that project, we weren't sure about our final platforms yet (Xbox 360, PS3, PC, etc.). Part of the reason you see a lot of games traditionally not allowing gender selection is that female versions of characters require their own versions of the character's animations. This unfortunately takes up a lot of memory - a resource the last generation of consoles doesn't particular excel at providing. As a result, you see a lot of games omitting female versions of characters because they simply couldn't spare the memory overhead of (potentially) twice the animation data loaded at once. When it's all male, all the players playing the same class share that male animation data, allowing you to fit within memory limitations while also making the levels look pretty and whatnot.

I'm not saying any of this is ideal. I agree with you that I would like to see male/female versions of any character so no one feels like they can only identify with a specific option we happened to make as female in concept. But the reality is unfortunately different, at least for our launch. I hope that at least explains the situation a bit if not really doing much to fix things.

ZeroFernir
26th Sep 2013, 22:19
I would love to customize my character, and I think that it would be a atractive in the game. But there is some thing that should really be changed:
1st: Turelims should be the rogues, and Dumahims the tankers
2nd: Turelims MUST have big ears
3rd: 3 fingers for the Vampires
4th: Why the hell Razielims look NOTHING as humans? only their leader fell on whater, you know? Razielim looks more as a demon than as a vampire, Dumahins and Turelims look too much as humans for me. They should be something close to Kain.

Vae Victus!

Reidbynature
26th Sep 2013, 23:49
We don't currently have male/female versions of the classes. We'd really like to add a female Vampire class in the future. Ideally the split would be closer to 50/50, but we're happy to be launching with at least one badass female character with practical armor :)

That's cool. Either way I look forward to see what makes the game.

Alma_Elma
27th Sep 2013, 04:40
I noticed that when looking at the lore that Dumah's clan are the one that is the fast stealth vamps, while Turel's is the tank even though he was more like a bat

LauraOrganaSolo
27th Sep 2013, 08:17
By the beginning of Soul Reaver 1, Kain and all of his progeny evolved to have similar hands and feet to the Ancients.

Why, further down the line in their evolution, have they suddenly reverted to five-toed human feet? This looks like a bit like a gross oversight or a weird lore decision.

http://i.imgur.com/nlXs9IU.jpg

I am also curious as to why the Dumahim's and Turelim's traits have been swapped. Again, design oversight? Please shed light. Thank you very much for taking the time to answer our questions.

P.S. Shame on the developers for not allocating time and resources to female wireframes and skins for the vampires and, rather than allowing for full customization of human characters, just setting one class in stone as female only. As much as I adore the Legacy of Kain series, it's about time we saw more female characters, especially in the case of vampires.

Comparisons have been made to MOBAs and Team Fortress 2 but Nosgoth looks more like Mass Effect 3 multiplayer and less like Team Fortress 2, where there is no character creation and no customization (something promised to Nosgoth players in the promotional video) beyond hats.

Vampmaster
27th Sep 2013, 09:51
By the beginning of Soul Reaver 1, Kain and all of his progeny evolved to have similar hands and feet to the Ancients.

Why, further down the line in their evolution, have they suddenly reverted to five-toed human feet? This looks like a bit like a gross oversight or a weird lore decision.

I am also curious as to why the Dumahim's and Turelim's traits have been swapped. Again, design oversight? Please shed light. Thank you very much for taking the time to answer our questions.

P.S. Shame on the developers for not allocating time and resources to female wireframes and skins for the vampires and, rather than allowing for full customization of human characters, just setting one class in stone as female only. As much as I adore the Legacy of Kain series, it's about time we saw more female characters, especially in the case of vampires.

Comparisons have been made to MOBAs and Team Fortress 2 but Nosgoth looks more like Mass Effect 3 multiplayer and less like Team Fortress 2, where there is no character creation and no customization (something promised to Nosgoth players in the promotional video) beyond hats.

Like Psyonix_Corey was saying, if you add a character of completely different proportions, you need to remake all the animations to fit with that as well. That takes up more memory in the game as well as the time needed to make them.

You can still change the polygons around as long as they're attached to the same rig, though. I'm hoping the characters can be a bit more customisable than just texture swaps, even if it is one bone rig per class.

Reidbynature
27th Sep 2013, 12:13
We never saw any other vampire outside of Kain and the clan leaders at the time the game takes place. It seems valid to me that they could still be more human in appearance than their masters.

MasterShuriko
27th Sep 2013, 14:20
We never saw any other vampire outside of Kain and the clan leaders at the time the game takes place. It seems valid to me that they could still be more human in appearance than their masters.

Since they would follow after their masters evolution, myea I agree

Rexidus
27th Sep 2013, 15:02
We don't currently have male/female versions of the classes. We'd really like to add a female Vampire class in the future. Ideally the split would be closer to 50/50, but we're happy to be launching with at least one badass female character with practical armor :)

Reality of the situation or not, as a guy who wants as much character customization as possible, this does not instill me with happiness.


By the beginning of Soul Reaver 1, Kain and all of his progeny evolved to have similar hands and feet to the Ancients.

Why, further down the line in their evolution, have they suddenly reverted to five-toed human feet? This looks like a bit like a gross oversight or a weird lore decision.


For the same reason the uniforms in the new Star Trek movie are different than they were in the original series. Artistic license. That doesn't destroy the game nor its connection to the series. Vorador being alive in Blood Omen 2 is a far bigger question than why these vampires have 5 digits.

Therealrabban
27th Sep 2013, 16:21
We never saw any other vampire outside of Kain and the clan leaders at the time the game takes place. It seems valid to me that they could still be more human in appearance than their masters.

Maybe so, but the Razielim are grossly devolved way passed raziel's evolution and lack the cloven feet and claws. The back wings also don't match Raziel's .

LauraOrganaSolo
27th Sep 2013, 16:38
For the same reason the uniforms in the new Star Trek movie are different than they were in the original series. Artistic license. That doesn't destroy the game nor its connection to the series. Vorador being alive in Blood Omen 2 is a far bigger question than why these vampires have 5 digits.

Except that the uniforms are fundamentally the same? Right down to Uhura's silly minidress.

"Artistic license" is an even worse excuse than "design oversight" given the plot significance of the traits. It's also one of those interesting design details that made Legacy of Kain vampires more interesting and less generic. Vampire characters are a dime a dozen.

As for Vorador, due to the cancellation of Dark Prophecy and the time period Nosgoth is set in, THAT unfortunate incidence is irrelevant.


Maybe so, but the Razielim are grossly devolved way passed raziel's evolution and lack the cloven feet and claws. The back wings also don't match Raziel's .
Also a big issue. The developers better have a plot device for why the Razielim have evolved far, far faster and more extremely than everyone else. Raziel's portion of Kain's soul couldn't have been that much greater than everyone else's.

The Razielim and Dumahim do have the three-clawed hands but the wrong feet.

Vampmaster
27th Sep 2013, 16:49
Also a big issue. The developers better have a plot device for why the Razielim have evolved far, far faster and more extremely than everyone else.

I'm repeating myself a bit now, but what better place to escape persecution from the other clans than Dark Eden. It's the one place only the most desperate of vampires (let alone humans) would go. It mutates everything that lives there and so it would accelerate the Razielim's devolution.

LauraOrganaSolo
27th Sep 2013, 16:55
I have heard your theory but I am hoping to hear an official answer at some point. What I don't understand is if the Razielim are being hunted down by the other clans, why are they suddenly working together again for this game? Have the humans suddenly advanced in technology and capability and are managing to encroach on vampire territory so much that the clans no longer have the resources to finish the Razielim off?

I don't want to theorycraft on something that shouldn't be a question in the first place. I am of the opinion the Razielim should have been left out in favor of one of the other clans. This does not mean I am trashing the developers or boycotting the game, I'm just a bit disgruntled and am hoping for answers.

Vampmaster
27th Sep 2013, 17:04
Have the humans suddenly advanced in technology and capability and are managing to encroach on vampire territory so much that the clans no longer have the resources to finish the Razielim off?.

That's what George has been saying. I think he's away until monday though.

KitKhains
27th Sep 2013, 18:04
Welp, I'm a bit disappointed that there are no female vampires at this point, or at least one that can be customized to look androgynous. I don't think a lot of the girls would care if they had an avatar that was a male as long as they had the change to at least make the face and body type a little more on the feminine side. I think in that case the animation wouldn't really have to be too changed since it's still a male character with androgynous features (plus I don't think women really fight that differently then men but hey I never looked). I know a lot of people argue that since Kain was the main character that it makes no sense to fuss over female vampires but at the same time this is an online game, which has to appeal to a large crowd. I'm pretty sure it will turn some women away from playing the game if all they can play is one female class. I understand they've got their reasons, but for the masses that's probably going to be something that counts negatively against the game.

LiKrySo
27th Sep 2013, 18:22
Luckily this game is still on an alpha state so issues like the vampire's hands and feet, Razielim's appereance and genders for all classes can be fixed.

The_Hylden
27th Sep 2013, 20:22
The Razielim and Dumahim do have the three-clawed hands but the wrong feet.



Actually, they have five fingers. It might not be completely visible in the poster because of the angle of their hands, but they do.

And I agree that their tri-claws and two-talon feet, and their pointy ears (especially Turelim's long ears) are staples that make our vampires unique and should be preserved.

Again, if enough of us keep suggesting this, it should be top on their list for changes down the line.

LauraOrganaSolo
27th Sep 2013, 20:32
Actually, they have five fingers. It might not be completely visible in the poster because of the angle of their hands, but they do.

And I agree that their tri-claws and two-talon feet, and their pointy ears (especially Turelim's long ears) are staples that make our vampires unique and should be preserved.

Again, if enough of us keep suggesting this, it should be top on their list for changes down the line.

That really rustles my jimmies. I had thought they had at least gotten the hands right.

Thank you for responding, The_Hylden. I was really concerned I would be met with the same kind of "You have too much time on your hands, it's an artistic decision, stop being an entitled fan," etc. condescension when I expressed displeasure about this both here and elsewhere.

I don't know if anyone recalls but back in 2001 when Blood Omen 2 screenshots and promotional CG images were released, there was a united fan outcry against Kain's character model lacking his very lore-relevant chest scar. Although his in-game skin was not altered, future promotional CG did have it.

So if anyone wants to try telling me "The developers don't care about your nitpicking," well... past Legacy of Kain developers have.

Swagraven
27th Sep 2013, 20:34
I noticed that when looking at the lore that Dumah's clan are the one that is the fast stealth vamps, while Turel's is the tank even though he was more like a bat

Well, consider that even in SR, the Turelim were at least twice as big as the Dumahim. It makes sense to me that the huge hulking vampires should be the tank of the game. And when you look at it that way, it almost seems like they developed telekinesis just to tank better. :lol: And in SR it wasn't that the Dumahim aren't at all sneaky...you're just sneakier. Maybe they're super stealthy, but because Raziel turned into some kind of little blue soul ninja, we never see it?

LauraOrganaSolo
27th Sep 2013, 20:58
Dumahim, with their broad, armored bodies were brawlers and fighters. According to concept artist Dan Cabuco, they were "primary ground forces." With telekinesis, the Turelim have no need for brawling. However physically stronger they were, they were conceptualized as ranged fighters and engineers. They were the brains vs the Dumahim's brawn.

If Psyonix switched the Reaver (ugh) and Tyrant roles around, it would all make so much more sense.

Reidbynature
27th Sep 2013, 21:03
From your POV. For others it seems the fact that the Turelim were bigger and stronger is more than a fair reason to have them as the tanks over the Dumahim. Think of it this way. The Dumahim were basic grunts/soldiers where as the Turelim were the tanks.

Swagraven
27th Sep 2013, 21:10
I stand by it being hilarious to think of Dumahim sneaking around in Soul Reaver.

Vampmaster
27th Sep 2013, 21:21
Well, consider that even in SR, the Turelim were at least twice as big as the Dumahim. It makes sense to me that the huge hulking vampires should be the tank of the game. And when you look at it that way, it almost seems like they developed telekinesis just to tank better. :lol: And in SR it wasn't that the Dumahim aren't at all sneaky...you're just sneakier. Maybe they're super stealthy, but because Raziel turned into some kind of little blue soul ninja, we never see it?

The Dumahim in Nosgoth (the game) weren't exactly sneaky either. They were quick and agile skilled warriors, but never actually sneaked up on anyone.

The Turelim had more stealth (but not too much), because they'd charge/leap at you out and had to get right up close for their massive strength to be most effective. Being an asymetric game, it would be difficult to give them telekinisis. However it was never stated when exactly they evolved that ability.

EDIT: Oh, right. (My memory was playing tricks on me.) The Dumahim has the leap and the Turelim had the charge. The Turelim would charge at you in SR1 as well though. They relied just as much on brute strength as telekinisis.

WoeToTheConquered
27th Sep 2013, 21:41
I'd like to say, just for the record, that it would be orgasmic (really really cool) to be able to get/unlock a Glyph Knight skin for the human faction...and have it glow when a vampire is close! *squee!*:D

MasterShuriko
28th Sep 2013, 01:57
That really rustles my jimmies. I had thought they had at least gotten the hands right.

Thank you for responding, The_Hylden. I was really concerned I would be met with the same kind of "You have too much time on your hands, it's an artistic decision, stop being an entitled fan," etc. condescension when I expressed displeasure about this both here and elsewhere.

I don't know if anyone recalls but back in 2001 when Blood Omen 2 screenshots and promotional CG images were released, there was a united fan outcry against Kain's character model lacking his very lore-relevant chest scar. Although his in-game skin was not altered, future promotional CG did have it.

So if anyone wants to try telling me "The developers don't care about your nitpicking," well... past Legacy of Kain developers have.

Oh I remember those days!
Good old times =D

The_Hylden
28th Sep 2013, 02:57
Thank you for responding, The_Hylden. I was really concerned I would be met with the same kind of "You have too much time on your hands, it's an artistic decision, stop being an entitled fan," etc. condescension when I expressed displeasure about this both here and elsewhere.

Heh, I thought all places were in uproars over changes like this and the missing bits of what we know from our vampires were almost universally expressed to them when we got to see the material and to test out the game. Yes, this is one of my main criticisms that I hope they'll address.


I don't know if anyone recalls but back in 2001 when Blood Omen 2 screenshots and promotional CG images were released, there was a united fan outcry against Kain's character model lacking his very lore-relevant chest scar. Although his in-game skin was not altered, future promotional CG did have it.

Actually, the PC version and XBox version both have the scar on the ingame model. The Intro and Outro cutscenes stay the same, though. Check it out:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v105/pgson/Kains-scar.jpg

There's a ton wrong on his model, period, so the scar (which actually is not placed in right, nor is it the right size, but yes it is there) is the least they could have rectified, heh.


So if anyone wants to try telling me "The developers don't care about your nitpicking," well... past Legacy of Kain developers have.

The one good thing about this type of model Square and Psyonix have chosen is that they say they want feedback, as much as they can get and that they'll actually be trying to incorporate much of what the fans want. Changes to the models can't happen as yet, but I'm hopeful for the future and if they hear it enough, they should listen. I think the main concern is that right now promotional material was already set, and that they're working to get everything ready for the beta testing phase, so they can't go back and alter models right now.

Most developers are held back from being able to do much regarding feedback, especially right before a game goes gold. The publisher's supreme deadlines and will is who they have to cater to. Sometimes they can change things if enough feedback is given. CD was able to make a couple of these alterations otherwise when the fans wanted, like adding glowing eyes for Raziel's ingame model in Defiance. That originally was not going to be. I'm hopeful that this free to play model and the beta feedback nature of it will affect the right kind of changes :)

LauraOrganaSolo
28th Sep 2013, 06:06
Actually, the PC version and XBox version both have the scar on the ingame model. The Intro and Outro cutscenes stay the same, though.

I THOUGHT SO! That's what I remembered! But when I went back to check all my screenshots before making that post, apparently all of them were from the PS2 version with the original skin. So it wasn't just wishful thinking on my part, thank you.


From your POV. For others it seems the fact that the Turelim were bigger and stronger is more than a fair reason to have them as the tanks over the Dumahim. Think of it this way. The Dumahim were basic grunts/soldiers where as the Turelim were the tanks.
They still weren't sneaky scouts. I imagine that role would be better suited to the Zephonim.

Alma_Elma
28th Sep 2013, 22:28
Actually, they have five fingers. It might not be completely visible in the poster because of the angle of their hands, but they do.

And I agree that their tri-claws and two-talon feet, and their pointy ears (especially Turelim's long ears) are staples that make our vampires unique and should be preserved.

Again, if enough of us keep suggesting this, it should be top on their list for changes down the line.

curious, if/when they add more clans if they will also have others traits like Zephon's clan spider like style, and Rahab's clan being able to go into water, if there is water like terrains, but that also depends on how far they evolved in the time I guess also lol

Vampmaster
28th Sep 2013, 22:44
They still weren't sneaky scouts. I imagine that role would be better suited to the Zephonim.

They were no sneakier than any of the other vampire classes. They all had at least one ability that let them spring out of nowhere, but not one of them had an actual stealth kill. Scout was a human class anyway.

I agree though that the Zephonim should be a stealth class. I think "assassin" would make a good name.

Alma_Elma
29th Sep 2013, 02:12
They were no sneakier than any of the other vampire classes. They all had at least one ability that let them spring out of nowhere, but not one of them had an actual stealth kill. Scout was a human class anyway.

I agree though that the Zephonim should be a stealth class. I think "assassin" would make a good name.

Would be pretty cool to have web traps! I don't know when I think of someone from Zephonim I think, stay in the shadows and wait for your prey to fall into your trap, then snatch them away into the darkest alley - (spider like)

Vanyelxp5
29th Sep 2013, 03:22
In regard to the technological breakthroughs of the human faction. Keep in mind that we are dealing with the alternate timeline in which Blood Omen 2 happened. So the steampunky tech of that time period exists, and would have been further advanced by now.

Remember also that Blood Omen 2 happened as a result of changing the timeline at the end of Soul Reaver 2. (With a bit of help from the events that occurred in Defiance.)

As for Vorador surviving into Blood Omen 2. I assumed that future Kain went back in time and warned him, or perhaps it was Raziel's interference with the original timeline during Defiance that caused him to go into hiding. I don't remember too clearly everything that happened in that game... It's been quite awhile since I played it. But I know that the series has quite possibly the most convoluted timeline in existence.

The_Hylden
29th Sep 2013, 03:49
BO2 does not affect the events of SR1 at all, meaning human tech or anything else. The tech of that time was based on the glyph magic of the Hylden, and with them gone, it appears these advancements also faded away. This is happening right in the interim of Raziel's execution and before his resurrection. Humans were seen with flamethrowers in SR1 and with heavy advanced armor, and this all was prior to the events of BO2 being introduced into the timeline. Way too many people are getting hung up on the humans's tech, but it fits within what's already been seen in SR1, and hand cannons were used in SR2, pre paradoxes, so gunpowder was already in use. Nothing they use here is out of continuity. The grenade launcher looks to be projectiles coated in magic, or some potion by the alchemist, which makes sense.

As for Vorador, he's also confirmed to have still had his head chopped off, as nothing from BO1 was also altered by any of the paradoxes. Dark Prophecy was to answer who resurrected him and how, but he does get resurrected.

Vampmaster
29th Sep 2013, 09:25
Would be pretty cool to have web traps! I don't know when I think of someone from Zephonim I think, stay in the shadows and wait for your prey to fall into your trap, then snatch them away into the darkest alley - (spider like)

I'd like the Zephonim to be able to snare a human from a distance using their webbing and pull it away from it's teammates for a good beating. The same should work on allies when you wish to pull them to safety.

Regarding the hylden tech, there's always a chance that they left a few relics lying around. Either from ancient times or BO2.

I just had an idea for the Turelim as well. Giving them long range telekinesis would obviously break the asymmetrical gameplay idea, but I was watching a video of when Raziel fought him in Defiance and in that, he was able to create telekinetic orbs that followed Raziel when he came near. Perhaps that could work in Nosgoth.

Reidbynature
29th Sep 2013, 18:12
They still weren't sneaky scouts. I imagine that role would be better suited to the Zephonim.

Agreed. I wouldn't have pegged them for scouts or ninjas either. The Zephonim definitely have the advantage there. Though I'm not too fussed personally. It doesn't ruin the game for me and they say they are open to adding Zephonim later. So I'm fine enough with that.


As for Vorador, he's also confirmed to have still had his head chopped off, as nothing from BO1 was also altered by any of the paradoxes. Dark Prophecy was to answer who resurrected him and how, but he does get resurrected.

Hopefully we can still get those answers at some point if Nosgoth does reinvigorate LoK.


Giving them long range telekinesis would obviously break the asymmetrical gameplay idea

Honestly, if that's the twist then it's an incredibly disappointing one. I'd hardly call it a twist. It's just assigning melee only to vampires and ranged only to humans. I doubt it's even unique. I'm still hopeful for the game and think it looks fun, but I do hope that they don't adhere to that ideal for every addition to either faction. It seems to me that it would likely work against the possibility of seeing some vampires signature powers later on like the Turelim's telekinesis.

Vampmaster
29th Sep 2013, 18:58
Agreed. I wouldn't have pegged them for scouts or ninjas either. The Zephonim definitely have the advantage there. Though I'm not too fussed personally. It doesn't ruin the game for me and they say they are open to adding Zephonim later. So I'm fine enough with that.

Hopefully we can still get those answers at some point if Nosgoth does reinvigorate LoK.

Honestly, if that's the twist then it's an incredibly disappointing one. I'd hardly call it a twist. It's just assigning melee only to vampires and ranged only to humans. I doubt it's even unique. I'm still hopeful for the game and think it looks fun, but I do hope that they don't adhere to that ideal for every addition to either faction. It seems to me that it would likely work against the possibility of seeing some vampires signature powers later on like the Turelim's telekinesis.

Yeah, that is the twist they're referring to. I think their descision to do that makes things more interesting, but I won't force you to agree with me (I've never tried to do that). I was just suggesting a way they could include the telekinisis without going against that descision.

EDIT: I still don't get why people (in this thread) are saying the Dumahim are "sneaky scouts". To me, they seem like lions or similar predators. They'd chase you down, pounce you and then maul you all in a totally non-sneaky way.

Moesph
29th Sep 2013, 19:27
EDIT: I still don't get why people (in this thread) are saying the Dumahim are "sneaky scouts". To me, they seem like lions or similar predators. They'd chase you down, pounce you and then maul you all in a totally non-sneaky way.
Well lions actually try to get as close as possible before they pounce, lions are typically ambush predators rather than stamina ones, and the one thing ambush predators have in common is muscle.
Still, I don't really like the sneaky scout term, it doesn't fit.

Reidbynature
29th Sep 2013, 19:28
No problem, Vampmaster. I was just voicing my opinion that I didn't think it's a great idea. It just feels too arbitrary to me. I hope we can see Turelim with telekenisis and the other vampires with their abilities too.

Well I would say that Lions can be sneaking in that they stalk their prey before they pounce, but I agree that I don't see much if anything of the Dumahim we knew in SR1 that you could genuinely call sneaky.

Vampmaster
29th Sep 2013, 19:45
No problem, Vampmaster. I was just voicing my opinion that I didn't think it's a great idea. It just feels too arbitrary to me. I hope we can see Turelim with telekenisis and the other vampires with their abilities too.

Well I would say that Lions can be sneaking in that they stalk their prey before they pounce, but I agree that I don't see much if anything of the Dumahim we knew in SR1 that you could genuinely call sneaky.

I was trying to say I didn't think of the Dumahim in Nosgoth or SR1 as skeaky. When you say lions stalk their prey before pouncing, I suppose that could be considered sneaking, but it could be argued that is not their main thing. I was thinking of something I read about them prefering to chase their prey. At that point they'd be right out in the open. The furthest thing from a true stealth kill which would be one where the enemy doesn't see you.

Reidbynature
29th Sep 2013, 19:52
No, I got what you were saying about the Dumahim and I agree about that. I however think you are nitpicking about Lions though. I see it more how Moseph sees it (I believe). They are more ambush predators. They generally stalk their prey.

JanusDominus
29th Sep 2013, 19:52
Well, I think we'll all agree that Razielim design is a misstep.

Reidbynature
29th Sep 2013, 19:55
Well, I think we'll all agree that Razielim design is a misstep.

Pretty much. More Hylden than Raziel in appearance imo.

Wraithblade6
29th Sep 2013, 20:03
Yes. They need girls. Modern technology has advanced to the point that generating those shouldn't be as difficult as it once was.

Vampmaster
29th Sep 2013, 20:20
Pretty much. More Hylden than Raziel in appearance imo.

Do you mean the wings or the heads? There were a few different skins shown in the trailer and the one whose head resembled a hylden was wearing a mask. The wings... Yeah, they're not like Raziels, but they would have gone through many iterations as they devolved. I think a number of us at the community event requested skins that look like the Lieutenants did in the SR1 intro when asked about future content.

Reidbynature
29th Sep 2013, 21:20
Do you mean the wings or the heads? There were a few different skins shown in the trailer and the one whose head resembled a hylden was wearing a mask. The wings... Yeah, they're not like Raziels, but they would have gone through many iterations as they devolved.

I was meaning more the wings. They remind me of the appendages some of the Hylden spirits have in Defiance. They protrude more like the Hylden than Raziel. Sure you can say they devolved more and that was the result, but I think the LoK community would prefer something that resembles Raziel more and doesn't look like a Hylden.


I think a number of us at the community event requested skins that look like the Lieutenants did in the SR1 intro when asked about future content.

Good job. :thumb: With any luck we can get something more in keeping with them.

AlterRequiem
29th Sep 2013, 21:26
There weren't many hot vampire females (unless you count the murals).
And I find Umah unattractive.
Now this;

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20121227192612/legacyofkain/images/9/9f/SR2-FemaleVampire-CloseUp.png

Hot.




The game's still in alpha and the design is probably subject to change. Judging from a few shots of the Razielim class, there'll be some sort of customization (One shot had the Razielim with feathery wings not unlike the Ancients)

I loled so ******* hard at this

D_for_Dewan
30th Sep 2013, 14:20
The Rezielims and Raziel have to have some differences in the models. But the back wings should really match those of Raziel's, because they look awesome.

Swagraven
30th Sep 2013, 15:19
The Rezielims and Raziel have to have some differences in the models. But the back wings should really match those of Raziel's, because they look awesome.

And there was never a more true statement ever uttered again.

LauraOrganaSolo
30th Sep 2013, 20:27
I was trying to say I didn't think of the Dumahim in Nosgoth or SR1 as skeaky. When you say lions stalk their prey before pouncing, I suppose that could be considered sneaking, but it could be argued that is not their main thing.

...That is what I have been trying to say.

Either way, basically the Turelim and Dumahim character models should be swapped, or I guess maybe the Dumahim are too slender.


Do you mean the wings or the heads? There were a few different skins shown in the trailer and the one whose head resembled a hylden was wearing a mask. The wings... Yeah, they're not like Raziels, but they would have gone through many iterations as they devolved. I think a number of us at the community event requested skins that look like the Lieutenants did in the SR1 intro when asked about future content.

Both IMO. Given how NOT very evolved the Turelim and Dumahim are, the Razielim should still have Raziel's bat-like wings and... something resembling a human face for crying out loud. Raziel wasn't THAT much older than his brothers, and apparently Dan Cabuco validated Rahab growing gills earlier than everyone else?

Vampmaster
30th Sep 2013, 20:45
Either way, basically the Turelim and Dumahim character models should be swapped, or I guess maybe the Dumahim are too slender.

I guess a comprimise would be to make the Dumahim a bit bigger and give them slightly bumpy heads. Heavier armor could be an upgrade.

Reidbynature
30th Sep 2013, 20:47
I would say the Dumahim are too slender. To me they've too much in common with Dumah's vampire form post Raziel's rebirth and Dumah's Sarafan self in SR2 for me to accept a swap. I would suggest beefing them up just a tad and give them more emphasised muscle tone, but still keep them less buff than the Turelim.

Vampmaster
30th Sep 2013, 20:55
I would say the Dumahim are too slender. To me they've too much in common with Dumah's vampire form post Raziel's rebirth and Dumah's Sarafan self in SR2 for me to accept a swap. I would suggest beefing them up just a tad and give them more emphasised muscle tone, but still keep them less buff than the Turelim.

I agree with all of that.

Ambusher
30th Sep 2013, 22:08
I agree with majority.
Visual part of the game must resemble to original Legacy of Kain.
It's bad enough not to have proper plot, main characters, the Reaver, the Pillars, etc.
The only thing that connects Nosgoth with original LoK series is the title and name of clans.
But somehow things, that must refer to original, is suddenly missing.
Vampires must have claws: three on palm, two on feet, as the original says.
Turelim must have big ears, as we saw on the SR1 CG of Liuetenant Turel (http://www.legacyofkain.it/app/turel_vampiro.jpg), and his clan in the following game.
Razielim wings also situated lower, according to CG and Daniel Cabuco's concept art (http://www.thelostworlds.net/LoKSeries/Images/Symbols-SR-Raziel_Wing-01.JPG)(however, in the game itself wings' position also vary from seen on CG, but it can be explained by transformation after beeing in Abyss).
The first two is obvious, I can't explain, why it isn't here.
Besides of that, I want to see other small, but pleasant refers to LoK, e.g. details in architecture, familiar locations, e.t.c.(The Pillars! We need them! By the way, in the SR era there's sanctuary of clans around them. It is possible to make it on the screen of vampire character creation, but it would be really good if players could walk in this location).
As I said in the welcome thread, I like to play competitive multiplayer games and such in the Legacy of Kain setting is great for me as for long-standing LoK fan. But without proper characters' design, it's just Monsters vs. Humans, not Nosgoth.

LauraOrganaSolo
1st Oct 2013, 02:57
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/lmh42/this-kain_zpsb9eb549a.png (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/lmh42/media/this-kain_zpsb9eb549a.png.html)

Everything Ambusher said.

I don't know if I have said it before but if so I feel the need to reiterate I am glad that the newest LoK game is multiplayer and not single player because I don't think it's possible for a single player game to please me a this point. It's like trying to make Star Wars sequels 30 years after the original trilogy. No one is going to be 100% happy and most people are going to be unhappy and throw words around like "cash-in" and whatnot.

This is EXACTLY what I wanted for another LoK game. I just wish it was set BEFORE Raziel's execution so we wouldn't have these fights about the Razielim, clans being more evolved than others, clans specializing in things that fit the characteristics of other clans better, so that Kain and Raziel and all of the lieutenants could be unkillable NPCs in the background, complaining that the humans are not, as stated in the Soul Reaver 1 manual, "fully domesticated," etc.

Setting it post Raziel's execution, well... that means we expect the development team to have gone over Soul Reaver 1 with as a fine a toothed comb as we have over the last 13-14 years.

MattTetska
1st Oct 2013, 03:10
the lack of half naked females is a welcome change. if females will get introduced into the game at some point, I hope they will at least wear some armor.

Lest there be half a million Umahs running around

Vanyelxp5
1st Oct 2013, 05:09
There are females on the human side... The alchemists are female only.

But, they have proper armor... not bikini-mail.

The_Hylden
1st Oct 2013, 05:14
Or Seer (must be what you're supposed to "see" when viewing her, eh? :p) cloth strip of of barely anything...

LauraOrganaSolo
1st Oct 2013, 16:43
I have beta tested and played a lot of MMOGs (EQ1, WoW, and Aion are the ones that I spent the most time in but also a bit of Guild Wars 1, Guild Wars 2, FF XI, TERA, Rift, Sword of the New World/Granado Espada, Lineage 2, and even EQ Online Adventures for the PS2), and you'd be surprised at how many people (probably including a lot of men) are willing to cover up their sexy lady avatars with completely reasonable, even realistic armor when given the opportunity to pick and DON'T complain if no skin shows.

And if there's enough character customization options as with Aion (which has the best, most minutely detailed character creator of all time), some people will forgo having an even remotely attractive character for the sake of tactical advantage. There were a lot of hideous, tiny gnome-like creatures in Aion because they were harder to target in PvP. Even in situations where PvP was non-existent, competitive raiders on PvE servers in EQ1 played Gnome Warriors for reasons related to tank mechanics and didn't care what the character looked like.

I played a lot of EQ1 and if you played a chainmail or platemail class, you didn't have a choice (http://www.eqemulator.org/forums/showpost.php?p=178768&postcount=1). Your character was modest and covered. With the exception of some of the extremely difficult to obtain armors pictured in that link and after the graphical overhaul in the expansion following that one, there was only one model for each type of armor (cloth, leather, chainmail, platemail) and no one ever complained "Boy I wish I looked like a stripper," or "Boy I wish my character's armor was more chainmail bikini and less protective gear." Unlike modern MMOGs where wizard types look like Vegas showgirls half the time, the cloth-wearing classes were all extremely modest in old-school high fantasy wizard robes [edit: my mistake, one of the Dark Elf Female robe models showed cleavage after the graphic overhaul but other than that]. No one had a problem with this.

TL;DR It's all in the ball of the developer's court.

If the only armor options available are stripper tier armor (I'm looking at you, TERA (https://www.google.com/search?q=tera+castanic&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=fflb&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=hAVLUuGUIImayAGzz4DoAQ#imgdii=_)), obviously everyone is going to run around looking like the Seer. If people have to chose between looking like a hot stripper or extremely modest, realistic armor with a tiny stat bonus, most people are going to choose modesty and a tiny boost vs looking sexy.

If there's no stats and players have, based on my disturbingly extensive experience with MMOGs, I can tell you it's actually not going to be 100% Umah strippers with cleavage up to their chins (that was the one reasonable thing about Umah's design -- boobs completely covered).

I am happy that the ONE female class out of six frigging options is wearing fairly realistic, modest armor, but I also hope we have options, and I sincerely hope the developers change their mind and, while hopefully re-vamping (pun unintended) the Razielim, they give them a sex change. There's just no reason to not have one female on each side.

Jebotimater
1st Oct 2013, 19:37
Hello Nosgoth,

I have not posted on forums for what seems to be an eternity. So excuse me for my poor grammer and arguments. I made this account just to say that i would love to have female vampires in the game. If they are included into the game, i do hope they take inspiration from the Concept Art of Soul Reaver. The lead concept artist of Soul Reaver Arnold Ayala had uploaded his work on his website. Here you can see what their ideas were for female vampires. A shame that they never made it into the game.

http://i480.photobucket.com/albums/rr167/mappster71/vamp011.jpg
http://i480.photobucket.com/albums/rr167/mappster71/vamp021.jpg

For those who are interested in more, you can view it here.
http://dogma5150.wordpress.com/crystal-dynamics-1995-to-1999/soulreaver/

Lirka_
1st Oct 2013, 20:05
Vampires must have claws: three on palm, two on feet, as the original says.
Disagree, Kain or any other vampire didn't have them in BO1 or BO2. They get them at a later age or "advanced state". The vampires in this game are obviously not yet as advanced as Kain and his lieutenants in SR1.
Maybe the Razielim should have them, but I think it's quite ironic how they began devolving before even advancing to that stage.

Moesph
1st Oct 2013, 20:13
Disagree, Kain or any other vampire didn't have them in BO1 or BO2. They get them at a later age or "advanced state". The vampires in this game are obviously not yet as advanced as Kain and his lieutenants in SR1.
Maybe the Razielim should have them, but I think it's quite ironic how they began devolving before even advancing to that stage.
They did say the razielim started their devolution due to the absence of Raziel, what traits they gain at that point would probably follow a different ruleset.


Also I agree with Jebotimater! :D

soulrelic616
1st Oct 2013, 20:21
[QUOTE=Jebotimater;67980]Hello Nosgoth,

I have not posted on forums for what seems to be an eternity. So excuse me for my poor grammer and arguments. I made this account just to say that i would love to have female vampires in the game. If they are included into the game, i do hope they take inspiration from the Concept Art of Soul Reaver. The lead concept artist of Soul Reaver Arnold Ayala had uploaded his work on his website. Here you can see what their ideas were for female vampires. A shame that they never made it into the game.

http://i480.photobucket.com/albums/rr167/mappster71/vamp011.jpg
http://i480.photobucket.com/albums/rr167/mappster71/vamp021.jpg

I think the devs were inspired by these designs when tey came up with Nosgoth's vampire crest design:

http://images.wikia.com/legacyofkain/images/8/88/Nosgoth-Factions-Logos.png

:)

Jebotimater
1st Oct 2013, 20:25
I can see the resemblance :)

The_Hylden
1st Oct 2013, 20:26
I am sure Ambusher meant the SR1 era vamps, Lirka_, not a thousand years prior to the SR1 Intro. A few centuries after the Lieutenants had these appendages should be enough for their clans to start having them and yes, the Razielim should definitely have them.

Lirka_
1st Oct 2013, 20:39
I am sure Ambusher meant the SR1 era vamps, Lirka_, not a thousand years prior to the SR1 Intro. A few centuries after the Lieutenants had these appendages should be enough for their clans to start having them and yes, the Razielim should definitely have them.Ah I see. I guess that's true. It really depends on how old the vampires in this game are supposed to be, and how long it takes for them to get to that state.
One fun way to solve this would be to have a leveling system of sorts that eventually grants you these appendages.

Denam_Pavel
1st Oct 2013, 21:24
Ah I see. I guess that's true. It really depends on how old the vampires in this game are supposed to be, and how long it takes for them to get to that state.
One fun way to solve this would be to have a leveling system of sorts that eventually grants you these appendages.

They've evolved enough to gain wings, which as I recall was considered quite a big deal as far as vampire evolution goes.

LauraOrganaSolo
4th Oct 2013, 16:42
I don't understand why Raziel being kind of dead would affect the evolution of his proverbial children. What am I missing?

CountEyokir
4th Oct 2013, 16:45
I am finding it hard to believe the Razielim evolved wings before they grew talons on their hands and feet. You can pass the other Vampires off a fledglings if you like but the Razielim, I don't think so

RainaAudron
4th Oct 2013, 16:46
I don't understand why Raziel being kind of dead would affect the evolution of his proverbial children. What am I missing?

Me neither, I do not think it should have any bearing, since they are individual entities...

LordNekronom
5th Oct 2013, 17:51
As I said before on the vampire redesign thread, Razielim de/evolving faster could be attributed to some form of symbiotic psychic link between them and their sire, the will and power of their sire holding off the corruption to his offspring, and this could also explain why the lieutenants didn't de/evolve much in 1000 years but when Kain dissapeared they turned to monsters in 500 years, Raziel's clan is not only feeling Kain's absence but also their Lieutenants, so weaker Razielim devolve faster, this could open up the option for a 'fair' Razielim customization to look like Raziel did before the fall. As for the lack of talons and pointy ears and fangs on the vampires, especially the razielim, it is clearly a 'chance' taken by the devs to see what our reaction is, it has no place there whatsoever, the blue skin on the vamps as well is out of place, maybe a pale white or dark brown or brownish yellow, but not what we currently got, if you notice the turelim also are devolved in the face but have human ears..... if this game is to have any success beyond it's initial release it needs to be true to the lore at least, I understand trying a new game type, it's perfectly fine, but changing/bending the lore for commercial reasons...... it may bury the franchise rather than revive it. So I think we can expect the devs to change the current models.

Reidbynature
5th Oct 2013, 20:24
I have to agree with others that it's not something I would have foreseen being the case, but on the other hand saying that their devolution spiraled out of control without their master's presence doesn't seem like a big leap to me. I mean there's a lot magic involved in their creation and if they are resurrected through their masters like Raziel and the lieutenants were through Kain then I guess you could make more of that connection than was previously shown (and could then possibly argue the various devolved states the lieutenants found themselves in were in part due to Kain's absence).

ZeroFernir
5th Oct 2013, 20:35
I have to agree with others that it's not something I would have foreseen being the case, but on the other hand saying that their devolution spiraled out of control without their master's presence doesn't seem like a big leap to me. I mean there's a lot magic involved in their creation and if they are resurrected through their masters like Raziel and the lieutenants were through Kain then I guess you could make more of that connection than was previously shown (and could then possibly argue the various devolved states the lieutenants found themselves in were in part due to Kain's absence).

That actually makes sense, and could be useful in the game lore, explaining a lot about the Razielim. But I still cant stand that 5 thingers... did someone found a reasonable explanation for that?

Reidbynature
5th Oct 2013, 20:41
That actually makes sense, and could be useful in the game lore, explaining a lot about the Razielim. But I still cant stand that 5 thingers... did someone found a reasonable explanation for that?

I think some things like the fingers are just going to come down to 'artistic license'. For Psyonix it seems that means wings before fully developed claws and hoofs. To be fair I don't think there's anything in the lore that would actually go against that despite how people may feel about it.

ZeroFernir
5th Oct 2013, 20:46
I think some things like the fingers are just going to come down to 'artistic license'. For Psyonix it seems that means wings before fully developed claws and hoofs. To be fair I don't think there's anything in the lore that would actually go against that despite how people may feel about it.

So, the first evolutions would not be the fingers? but Raz had his claws before the wings...

Reidbynature
5th Oct 2013, 20:55
So, the first evolutions would not be the fingers? but Raz had his claws before the wings...

Ha! I completely missed that. That would count. Though I suppose Pysonix could just argue that the Razielim's devolution was a bit more unpredictable in their master's absence. However with fans reception of their look not being that great I wouldn't be surprised if they're reconsidering their look.

RainaAudron
5th Oct 2013, 20:59
"They have this foolish notion that destroying me will somehow topple our entire bloodline.
Thankfully, we’re not that fragile. " Janos, SR2. I think this line supports that they wouldn´t be linked in such a way.

Reidbynature
5th Oct 2013, 21:03
I think you're reading something into that line that maybe wasn't intended and taking it out of context, Raina. I think that line is more along the lines of Kain's lines in the SR2 intro about being 'indivisible' and 'legion', that as long as one survives they all do. To me that speaks more about their general survival as a species, not that they are unlinked.

Lord_Aevum
5th Oct 2013, 21:05
We may already be seeing a bit too much argumentation in the line of "even though this is contentious, it could've been so, because you can't prove it wasn't". There shouldn't be a need for rationales like that in the first place if certain things coincided more closely with the rest of the series, because there'd be no valid grounds for objection.

ZeroFernir
5th Oct 2013, 21:17
Ha! I completely missed that. That would count. Though I suppose Pysonix could just argue that the Razielim's devolution was a bit more unpredictable in their master's absence. However with fans reception of their look not being that great I wouldn't be surprised if they're reconsidering their look.

That would be a reasonable idea...


I think you're reading something into that line that maybe wasn't intended and taking it out of context, Raina. I think that line is more along the lines of Kain's lines in the SR2 intro about being 'indivisible' and 'legion', that as long as one survives they all do. To me that speaks more about their general survival as a species, not that they are unlinked.

I agree that Janos was talking about "Killing me won't kill my family", but I really think that they are linked. Maybe even a sick link like Malkavian's in VtM


We may already be seeing a bit too much argumentation in the line of "even though this is contentious, it could've been so, because you can't prove it wasn't". There shouldn't be a need for rationales like that in the first place if certain things coincided more closely with the rest of the series, because there'd be no valid grounds for objection.

I am just saying that it is really hard to kill EVERYONE of a clan/culture or anything like that. Some can always run away.

Vampshroom
5th Oct 2013, 21:42
Dem human females be sexy ;p

ZeroFernir
5th Oct 2013, 22:01
Dem human females be sexy ;p

random post? u.u

LordNekronom
5th Oct 2013, 23:15
I did explain in the vampire redesign thread how they could technically have 5 fingers and no pointy ears even though they are de/evolved so read my 2 long posts there, but as I mentioned, the idea would be a perversion of the lore and it would just be pushing the 'creative license' too much passed the breaking point

ZeroFernir
6th Oct 2013, 00:08
I did explain in the vampire redesign thread how they could technically have 5 fingers and no pointy ears even though they are de/evolved so read my 2 long posts there, but as I mentioned, the idea would be a perversion of the lore and it would just be pushing the 'creative license' too much passed the breaking point

I agree... That is one thing that should be kept at all costs...

soulrelic616
6th Oct 2013, 13:01
I think you're reading something into that line that maybe wasn't intended and taking it out of context, Raina. I think that line is more along the lines of Kain's lines in the SR2 intro about being 'indivisible' and 'legion', that as long as one survives they all do. To me that speaks more about their general survival as a species, not that they are unlinked.

Agree, I believe Janos was talking on a species survival level, besides we dont know if the Kain's offspring would have behaved like the Ancients at all anyway, to start with the Ancient vampires were not corrupted to the core.

Crainy
6th Oct 2013, 16:45
Honestly, my main gripe with the new designs, aside from the Turelim not having bat ears or atleast longer ears, is also the design of the Razielim. Now, Im not that much bothered by how their wings look abit weird and how they dont have hoofs and claws, BUT, I have to say.. their design is just so uncreative? They dont really look like vampires, more like some sort of sci-fi alien monsters. Why is their head so generic? What I would suggest is to throw abit more of Vorador into the head of the Razelim. Give them large bat ears, a strong jaw, make their teeths cleary visible.

They should look like human bats or something.

LordNekronom
6th Oct 2013, 17:08
well as far as the head goes http://youtu.be/VbpMhMfnTuQ?t=1m6s watch this and as well at 1:21 for another better view, there are customizations for it, though those are most likely headdresses like the ones seen on statues in the vampire city ( the ones people though were hylden ) and at 1:29 you can clearly see feathers on the wings.

But the major problem still is the lacking of talons on both Turelim and Razielim, if the Dumahim aren't yet de/evolving that's ok but vamps that show de/evolution should have these features, it's a unique brand to the Legacy of Kain franchise that has become iconic at this point, it's like lets make take the blood elves and night elves in wow and give them short ears and non glowing eyes

Raziel1228
7th Oct 2013, 06:18
well as far as the head goes http://youtu.be/VbpMhMfnTuQ?t=1m6s watch this and as well at 1:21 for another better view, there are customizations for it, though those are most likely headdresses like the ones seen on statues in the vampire city ( the ones people though were hylden ) and at 1:29 you can clearly see feathers on the wings.

But the major problem still is the lacking of talons on both Turelim and Razielim, if the Dumahim aren't yet de/evolving that's ok but vamps that show de/evolution should have these features, it's a unique brand to the Legacy of Kain franchise that has become iconic at this point, it's like lets make take the blood elves and night elves in wow and give them short ears and non glowing eyes

Hmm your right. The headpieces are different and the wings are different too. Looks like as you level up you earn options to customize your classes it would seem.

AlterRequiem
7th Oct 2013, 07:25
What if beta testers got skins for classic look vamps and Sarafan humans, since we're pretty much made up of the older fans anyways. God that would be the best beta incentive ever.

ZeroFernir
7th Oct 2013, 12:30
What if beta testers got skins for classic look vamps and Sarafan humans, since we're pretty much made up of the older fans anyways. God that would be the best beta incentive ever.

It really would be! =P but I think not everyone who wants it will become an alpha/beta...

KingofRandom
17th Jan 2014, 00:24
I completely agree.

Azazel_reborn
17th Jan 2014, 01:26
I thought the reason why they all have 5 fingers and toes was because the talons were a result of vampiric evolution which could be obtained by all vampires who were older/stronger while the Razielim's wings were a clan specific trait/gift gaind shortly after thier masters.

Vampmaster
17th Jan 2014, 11:00
I thought the reason why they all have 5 fingers and toes was because the talons were a result of vampiric evolution which could be obtained by all vampires who were older/stronger while the Razielim's wings were a clan specific trait/gift gaind shortly after thier masters.

I don't think anyone's asking for fully evolved/devolved vampires right away (although at some point), but every vampire shown in the series so far has at least had fangs and ears. These don't even have fangs. It's been explained in the blog that fledglings just look like pale humans, but it still feels disappointing.

Also the brethren were already showing slight signs of devolution in the SR1 intro even it it wasn't as much as Raziel. We were expecting a few of these traits to have filtered down to the clans after a century or two.

Varulven
17th Jan 2014, 14:41
I have to confess: I like the character models the way they are now^^
Pls, don't make too many changes *begs*

Razaiim
17th Jan 2014, 17:13
For all of you complaining about the design of current vampires and deviating from LoK stuff:

#1 the playable faction of vampires are currently Fledgelings, and retained their human features do to being (relatively) young. I know some one will raise the point "but in SR1 the fledglings look like monsters too!" Yes. In SR1 centuries have passed since this game. The vampire race and society has change. Vampires are feasting on the long dead, and potentially starving, causing even the fledglings to decay rapidly.

#2 In the Razielim lore post, it explains why the razielimg devolved and mutated so quickly. The surviving members were locked in a cave for many years, and were forced to dig themselves out, and their only source of food was when one of them collapsed form the starvation. This hunger and feasting on tainted blood quickened their devolution into monsters. They might have still retained the human hands and feet due to Raziel being Kain's first-born. As such they may be more resilient to the decay and corruption, much as Melchiah was the most susceptible and was the last to be resurrected.

#3 I personally feel they nailed the design of Dumahim and Turelim. I also pictured the Dumahim Reavers as smaller, more precise warriors, and the Turelim making up for their lack of finesse with raw power. This is the vibe I got from each clan, this is the vibe that the design team seems to have stuck with... and MOST IMPORTANTLY... this is the vibe you get from playing each of them.