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View Full Version : SPECULATION: NOT A REMAKE?!?! (sorry for blurting out like this...)



Joshorty
20th Jun 2006, 04:10
Yeah...right now the topic is burstin' crazy in this link:
http://www.tombraiderforums.com/showthread.php?t=67528

And throughout the thread, there were some links that were showing that it was "meant to be a compilation" like a BEST OF for Tomb Raider, using levels from the past?!?! Here's where I posted mine in wehre I can't gurantee if the info is true... (just CTRL+F=Joshorty):
http://www.tombraiderforums.com/showthread.php?t=67528&page=9
however, I want to make sure of this!!!

kksmith
20th Jun 2006, 04:14
I still don't believe that. Just randomly mixing levels from different games is boring. Who cares about that? I certainly wouldn't buy it.

Besides which, all the rumors and stuff point to a remake, not a collection of levels. I see no reason to jump to *that* conclusion over the remake one.

dufflover
20th Jun 2006, 05:26
Now more than ever screenshots will be useful!

Remaking TR2 would be unexpected though. Not saying it's a bad thing but it would mean leaving Legend out in the cold a bit, and I would've thought just remaking just one of the games would be enough "practice" at implementing the suggestions from the stick in the Legends sub-forum.

It feels like it's gonna be a long wait...

btw could you regularly post any big developments that occur in the thread you linked? :thumbsup:

kksmith
20th Jun 2006, 05:39
Now more than ever screenshots will be useful!

Remaking TR2 would be unexpected though. Not saying it's a bad thing but it would mean leaving Legend out in the cold a bit, and I would've thought just remaking just one of the games would be enough "practice" at implementing the suggestions from the stick in the Legends sub-forum.

It feels like it's gonna be a long wait...

btw could you regularly post any big developments that occur in the thread you linked? :thumbsup:

I'm not sure what you mean there...

I don't really see a problem with them remaking TR2 personally. I think it would be great, but I do think it's gonna come down to a time issue. Can they finish it in time for the Anniversary (November 2006)? I think a lot of that will depend on what CD is/was doing and if any of Core's apparently 80% complete remake is going to be recycled.

The way I see it goes like this. Either:
a.) Both CD and Core were working on an "Anniversary Edition", but Core's was scrapped when the company dissolved. CD continues to finish the version they were working on, but will incorporate what Core has done into theirs
b.) Same as above, but CD will not incorporate Core's work
c.) CD was not working on anything, but either took up Core's project or started from scratch after Core's project died.

I think exactly what the situation is will determine how quickly this game gets done. If Core was 80% done, even if Crystal Dynamics doesn't want to use their game, they can certainly take from the game (i.e. level maps, textures, engine features, etc) and incorporate it into whatever they are doing. That will speed things up. Even if they don't, you have to ask when CD actually started, and if it was awhile (i.e. middle of Legend's development) then they might still have time to do TR2 as well.

So yeah, we'll see I guess. I still definately think this is gonna be a remake, especially given the reaction from the fans so far. Heck, let's say for a second CD *was* making a compilation. Eidos could see, say, more people want the remake, and say "Hey, finish up Core's project" (it's at least at a point where this could be done without issue). So we'll see :P


Edit:
http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/tomb-raider/insider-dishes-tomb-raider-remake-dirt-181531.php

Wonder if this is true. If so, that kind of confirms it.

Joshorty
20th Jun 2006, 15:22
I know..that link right now is my only source of hope:( And it sounds official too...even though it was only a quick digin from Eidos...

imported_Mark_
20th Jun 2006, 17:36
Just FYI, Eidos haven't got anything to say yet regarding whether it's a Tomb Raider remake or now.

I'm afraid we'll have to wait for further announcements. :(

Commando
20th Jun 2006, 19:51
Now more than ever screenshots will be useful!

Remaking TR2 would be unexpected though. Not saying it's a bad thing but it would mean leaving Legend out in the cold a bit, and I would've thought just remaking just one of the games would be enough "practice" at implementing the suggestions from the stick in the Legends sub-forum.

It feels like it's gonna be a long wait...

btw could you regularly post any big developments that occur in the thread you linked? :thumbsup:
Well better later than never. I don't mind if the game comes out after a long while because I've got a ps2 that doesn't work and so I'm just going to wait for the PS3 and then I will be able to play this game because the PS3 is compatible with every PS1 and PS2 game, which is a very good thing since we'll be able to still enjoy the classic titles that we loved played back in the old days.

StarChampagne
23rd Jun 2006, 16:59
Ehh? How would you manage to scrape together the best levels from previous games and have a believable plot, or not make the game last for several months of solid play without food or rest?

Maybe they should remake the original game relatively closely (containing the same basic idea and puzzles, and of course classic moments such as the T-rex) but add in a load of extra content as well, and extra levels and things? Just a thought. I'll be really excited to see it!

susan
26th Jun 2006, 08:59
One of the things I didn't like about TR5 was the bittiness of the game. No singular path building up to a climatic ending, just little snapshots, tasters.

Re-mixing levels from different games doesn't excite me at all.

I think they should remake TR1 but (1) change the puzzles significantly and (2) add extra new levels.

I think the old cutscenes would make a good starting point for finding new levels that fit with the old game. For example - have a level with Lara escaping Yetis (her book she's reading when Larson approaches her in Calcutta), climbing up the mountain in Peru with her Guide, breaking into Natla's office to find the monk's diary.

aussie500
26th Jun 2006, 09:53
:confused: l always assumed Lara was reading her mail in the hotel FMV, Larson had the book and it was "Lara stamps out bigfoot", not really anything to do with the Tomb Raider 1 story, although they could always throw it in

susan
26th Jun 2006, 10:26
:confused: l always assumed Lara was reading her mail in the hotel FMV, Larson had the book and it was "Lara stamps out bigfoot", not really anything to do with the Tomb Raider 1 story, although they could always throw it inThank you aussie. You're right it is Larson who has the book, it's a little while since I saw the FMV. ;)

I know the book has nothing specifically to do with TR1 gameplay, it's in the cutscene only. But it is used as part of the introduction (the first ever) of Lara Croft. We see that book for a reason.

I think it's reasonable to use this material as the intro again, but in a more creative and playable way, hence a beginning level based on it. This is still staying true to what's gone before.

Personally I'd like the developers to use their imagination in this way.

Joshorty
26th Jun 2006, 14:12
I'm getting worried...if it isn't a remake, then I'd be disappointed...a BEST OF game I wouldn't mind but after seeing how close CORE finished their Anniversary Edition and the fact it was a remake attempt would disappoint me to see Crystal Dynamics didn't put up with a remake...perhaps this has been the rumours that's been spreadin' from before:

10th Anniversary (CORE DESIGN): remake of 1st title

10th Anniversary (Crystal Dynamics): Collection of greatest levels
:(

dog
26th Jun 2006, 17:00
One of the things I didn't like about TR5 was the bittiness of the game. No singular path building up to a climatic ending, just little snapshots, tasters.

Re-mixing levels from different games doesn't excite me at all.

I think they should remake TR1 but (1) change the puzzles significantly and (2) add extra new levels.

I think the old cutscenes would make a good starting point for finding new levels that fit with the old game. For example - have a level with Lara escaping Yetis (her book she's reading when Larson approaches her in Calcutta), climbing up the mountain in Peru with her Guide, breaking into Natla's office to find the monk's diary.
They did something like what you suggested in Unfinished Business.
IMHO the extra 4 levels were not worth it, even if they put TR Gold together with TR2 Gold.

The speculation is that a compilation of levels will be tweeked to be like new, but I believe it will be exactly the same.
All 5 games (plus Gold adventures) will be in one package, like The Sims Collection (buy The Sims, get all 7 expansion packs in one box).

kksmith
26th Jun 2006, 17:06
They did something like what you suggested in Unfinished Business.
IMHO the extra 4 levels were not worth it, even if they put TR Gold together with TR2 Gold.

The speculation is that a compilation of levels will be tweeked to be like new, but I believe it will be exactly the same.
All 5 games (plus Gold adventures) will be in one package, like The Sims Collection (buy The Sims, get all 7 expansion packs in one box).

But even that, with no graphical updates or anything, is certainly not going to "draw new people into the franchise". The only market for something like that is existing fans who maybe didn't get a chance to play the earlier games and can't get ahold of them now. Anyone else who isn't familiar with Tomb Raider (or at least hasn't played it) will look at the back of the box, see god-aweful 1996 graphics (by today's standards anyways) and put it back on the shelf.

susan
26th Jun 2006, 17:15
They did something like what you suggested in Unfinished Business.In unfinished business they didn't remake a whole game with significant changes to the puzzles AND add extra new levels.

That is what I said I hoped they'd do with the remake not make a few extra levels and put that out as a game.

Joshorty
26th Jun 2006, 18:15
That is what I said I hoped they'd do with the remake not make a few extra levels and put that out as a game.
Which sounds like a compilation without purpose:(

Mangar The Dark
27th Jun 2006, 13:41
One of the things I didn't like about TR5 was the bittiness of the game. No singular path building up to a climatic ending, just little snapshots, tasters.

Re-mixing levels from different games doesn't excite me at all.

I think they should remake TR1 but (1) change the puzzles significantly and (2) add extra new levels.

I think the old cutscenes would make a good starting point for finding new levels that fit with the old game. For example - have a level with Lara escaping Yetis (her book she's reading when Larson approaches her in Calcutta), climbing up the mountain in Peru with her Guide, breaking into Natla's office to find the monk's diary.

Completely agree with all of the above (though I don't necessarily need the Yeti level, as that would seem a bit disjointed from the rest of the adventure.) We SHOULD be able to play the part where Lara chases the bad guys on her motorcycle and leaps onto the boat. That was a classic scene, and it would be great to extend it and make it into a full level.

susan
27th Jun 2006, 19:54
Completely agree with all of the above (though I don't necessarily need the Yeti level, as that would seem a bit disjointed from the rest of the adventure.) We SHOULD be able to play the part where Lara chases the bad guys on her motorcycle and leaps onto the boat. That was a classic scene, and it would be great to extend it and make it into a full level.The motorbike and boat would be great. :thumbsup:

Personally I really want to experience the break-in to Natla's office using the blow-torch on the elevator suspension wire of course... :cool:

And I wouldn't mind doing the climb up to the monk's place, finding litterbug Pierre's camp remains on the way. This could be an excellent place to use Lara's new rock-climbing skills in a deathly haul up black slippery rocks. Like a TR1 version of doing the climb up the pyramid in TR4, with falling rocks and so on.

aussie500
28th Jun 2006, 02:10
The way l see it the Crystal Dynamics version has to have part of Tomb Raider 1 in it, or we would have got both Anniversarry Editions. Eidos did not cancel Cores game because it would not have been a good game, it was brilliant. They could have always worked out a way to give Core time to finish it. No both Core and Crystal had to be doing something similiar and we could not have 2 new but different versions of Tomb Raider 1.
l do not see them releasing a disjointed collection of best levels either, it would be to confusing for the newer fans to try and make sense out of it. As much as l would really like a faithful updated version of Tomb Raider 1, similiar to what Core was doing, l have a nasty suspicion that is not what we are going to get, it could still be good, just not what Core was going to give us. We have always heard rumours of a remake of Tomb Raider 1 and 2, and they have been pretty persisitant, perhaps what we are going to end up getting is like a Tomb Raider 1 and 2 redux edition, or perhaps a reinterpretation of Lara's first game, similiar to the first, faithfull to the basic story, but done differently

Joshorty
28th Jun 2006, 03:01
I wouldn't die if it wasn't a remake but truely it'd be sad if it isn't :( but I still would buy the game if it wasn't a remake but HECK after seeing the leaked trailer it's hard to imagine that Crystal Dynamics do a complete different project...

Mangar The Dark
29th Jun 2006, 16:34
Personally I really want to experience the break-in to Natla's office using the blow-torch on the elevator suspension wire of course... :cool:


Yep, that would be cool. Sort of reminds me of the VCI Tower levels in Chronicles, but with Legend's engine.


And I wouldn't mind doing the climb up to the monk's place, finding litterbug Pierre's camp remains on the way. This could be an excellent place to use Lara's new rock-climbing skills in a deathly haul up black slippery rocks. Like a TR1 version of doing the climb up the pyramid in TR4, with falling rocks and so on.

Hmmm... yeah, I hadn't thought of this scene, but while we're dreaming, why not?
Of course, realistically, I doubt any of these new levels will be inserted (heck, I'd be happy if we even just got all of the original levels remade), but it's nice to imagine how it COULD be.

I wonder if they'd throw in some more mid-level cutscenes? TR1 didn't really do that sort of thing, but it would be nice. Even just a few fly-bys of impressive areas would be great. Say, for example, when you reach that tall room in St. Francis' Folley, Lara could comment on it, and the camera could fly around slowly to show you just how immense the room really is.

enoch
2nd Jul 2006, 11:51
I haven't read all the posts but I don't see a problem in making a compilation. An anniversay edition could take the best story parts or perhaps some "forgotten" ones and use them as a look back on the achievements of Lara Croft plus the playstationplayers never got to play the gold levels from the pc versions of the first four games. And as I recall, Core already spoke of an anniversary-like edition after the fifth game. Besides, remaking a previous game sounds a bit dull even if its a good one such as the original Tomb Raider. Personally I liked the second TR better than the first one and I think just as much of the 4th and 5th version. So taking a mix of the best moments in TR history and then add some new stuff would in my opinion be ideal. And if they choose just to make the first one all over again, I'll buy it anyway!

Joshorty
3rd Jul 2006, 04:40
I know what you mean (like what I posted on my last post:rolleyes: ) but still - I can't help not thinking this is not gonna be a remake of the orignal - especially after seeing that leaked trailer - seeing how far CORE has gone and it was cancelled. fans now expect more of a remake from Crystal Dynamics but then again, it's always their own move...I hope they realize the fans vision for this game...especially after what's been leaked in the internet.

blincoln
4th Jul 2006, 03:38
seeing how far CORE has gone and it was cancelled.

Trailers can be deceptive. There are at most 30-40 rooms in the trailer, and the actual number could be closer to 10 or 20 depending on how many are the same room from different camera angles.

It's also impossible to tell how much of the engine is functional. Can Lara take damage and die? What range of puzzle elements can she manipulate? Are any of the rooms chained together to make part or all of a level, or were they loaded individually and made to appear related through video editing? Is the game at all stable? Can you save and load? Are bosses implemented? Is the dual aim under player control, or was it an automated demo of what it would look like when it was done?

That video could have been made from a playable, nearly-complete game, or a *very* early tech demo with no player control at all. There's no way to know without official comment or being able to play it yourself.

aussie500
4th Jul 2006, 04:17
No the Core guys were playing the game, they told us so. It would have had the same number of "rooms" as the original, puzzles would have been similiar to the original, although the game was not grid based they programed some of the puzzle sections to behave as if it was so they could have them work the same as the original. All the levels would have loaded the same as the original. It was a faithfull remake of the original with updated graphics and engine, the AI was improved, it was also mentioned that the person working on the AI had also put in a few extra nasty suprises for those who knew the game pretty well, and thought it would be easy. We were not told much about the dual aiming feature although it was mentioned by the person who worked on it that he was thinking of making the spinning targets an optional feature that could be turned off. Although we were told the game was only 80% complete it is a bit of a puzzle what the unfinished 20% was since from what the Core guys had said all the levels appear to have been playable. Perhaps the remaining was testing, fine tuning, and working on the Lara model. Although we never saw any Atlantians so maybe they were still working on them. The levels were apparently lifted from the original and then updated. If you check you will see the pickups in exactly the same place as they were in the original, and they look the same. You might find some interesting reading here http://www.tombraiderforums.com/showthread.php?t=67560 Most of the relevant bits were added to this thread from the extremely long thread where they were originally

Joshorty
4th Jul 2006, 14:54
it was also mentioned that the person working on the AI had also put in a few extra nasty suprises for those who knew the game pretty well, and thought it would be easy.
Yeah like one guy in this forum (or if the other:www.tombraiderforums.com) that in the Caves when you pass by the "squished up mummified vase", in the trailer...LARA WAS POINTING AT IT:eek: !!!

aussie500
4th Jul 2006, 15:04
That was me, as she was running by the mumified skeleton she was actually looking at it(he was on the side as in the original game so she had to turn her head), and it looked like she drew the guns. But it is hard to be sure if she drew them with the poor quality of the trailer, l am trying to see if any of the Core guys will confirm it would have moved, just to satisfy my own curiousity. Unfortunately all the Core guys were so excited about the article in edge magazine no one answered my question, probably they are not allowed to answer anyway ****

Joshorty
4th Jul 2006, 15:15
O it was you:D hehe well thanks again for pointin' out. and I hope they answer...they're already kicked out but then again, the game has many suprises...but the trailer itself was awesome.

blincoln
4th Jul 2006, 20:32
No the Core guys were playing the game, they told us so. It would have had the same number of "rooms" as the original, puzzles would have been similiar to the original, although the game was not grid based they programed some of the puzzle sections to behave as if it was so they could have them work the same as the original. All the levels would have loaded the same as the original.

I think you're misunderstanding me.

Obviously that's what the final product was intended to be. However, I don't think the video alone is evidence of the game being anywhere close to finished. The things I listed were off the top of my head questions that the video doesn't answer about the state of the game when the video was made.

Yes, one Core employee estimated the game as being 80% done. That may be true, but the only way to know for sure would be to try playing through what they had finished. It's also possible that the last 20% would have taken a lot more time to complete. I've played pre-release commercial games that were well above 80% finished, but nowhere near playable enough to be sold in stores.

I'm not saying you shouldn't be upset about this version of the game being cancelled, just that it's not clear how much more work it would have taken to make it a finished product.

aussie500
4th Jul 2006, 23:37
Well it makes no difference now, since we will never get to play it. But if the Core guys could play the game through to the end, it would indicate to me the levels themselves were just about complete, since most of the work would have been the new engine, redesigning of the levels, and the updated enemies, l would say 80% was accurate. They said we would recognise some of the moves in the new game freerunning, so l assume they eventually got to use the engine they developed anyway

enoch
5th Jul 2006, 12:52
Did I miss a post somewhere? From what you guys are talking about it sounds like the game has been cancelled? Or is "just" the Core-version?

aussie500
5th Jul 2006, 13:58
The Core game was cancelled and the trailer was banned as it was illegally leaked, Eidos never gave permission for it to be shown. And although they never finished animating all the updated enemies for the cancelled game, it is believed the skeleton would have been animated, since the trigger (Lara turning to look at it) was already in place. Would have liked to have heard more, but think that will be all we will hear about it
http://www.tombraiderforums.com/showthread.php?t=67560&page=8

enoch
5th Jul 2006, 16:42
But the CD version is still on, right?:scratch:

blincoln
5th Jul 2006, 17:01
Yes, the CD version is still on.

aussie500: I read through the link you posted earlier and I didn't see any Core employees saying they were able to play through the entire game. Did I miss something?

aussie500
5th Jul 2006, 21:58
Not all the comments are there, as l say it is hard to round everything up, but it was mentioned.

Undiscovered_Tomb
8th Jul 2007, 22:42
its a remake DUH

get ur head out of the camels no no place!

Faye
8th Jul 2007, 23:34
its a remake DUH

get ur head out of the camels no no place!

I wish we were all as smart as you, well done you for correcting people in a discussion that took place several months before we were given info on the game.

:rolleyes:

Joshorty
9th Jul 2007, 02:25
Well it happens:rolleyes:my bad anyway.