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Hellaciouss
25th Sep 2013, 14:44
How's everyone doing?

After watching the video on the main site, what is everyones expectations for the game? What are everyone concerns? The e-sport question scared me a bit on the beta application and in combination with the free to play model it makes me feel like it could be a issue for fans of the series. I'm curious how the game will be making money through the F2P model and hoping it's not the dreaded 'pay2win' sort of thing.

Can't wait for the Q/A session on the 30th to ask some of these questions!

Monkeythumbz
25th Sep 2013, 15:03
How's everyone doing?

After watching the video on the main site, what is everyones expectations for the game? What are everyone concerns? The e-sport question scared me a bit on the beta application and in combination with the free to play model it makes me feel like it could be a issue for fans of the series. I'm curious how the game will be making money through the F2P model and hoping it's not the dreaded 'pay2win' sort of thing.

Can't wait for the Q/A session on the 30th to ask some of these questions!
So, Nosgoth is a free-to-play game - but it's not pay-to-win.

We made the decision to go to free-to-play to break down barriers and let as many players into the game as possible. One of the key goals has been to create a fair experience that doesn't penalise players who don’t spend money in the game, as such Nosgoth doesn’t include items, weapons or abilities that are inherently better (aka supremacy goods).

Stonehorse
25th Sep 2013, 15:06
An interesting direction for the game series, not one that I would have chosen myself. Looks like the game fills the gaps between Raziel's punishment and his rebirth, which if I remember correctly was meant to be about 500 years, so this allows for artistic freedom. That being said the vampires better have the tridactyl claws and feet, as this 'mutation' was already established by the time Raziel was thrown into the lake of the dead.

It is interesting to see the remnants of Raziel's clan, I'd have thought that they would have suffered the same punishment, having said that the lore does state that they are decaying, so this could be due to their Clan leader being dead, as the Vampires do have a connection with their leader. Speaking of which why aren't the other Vampire Clans present? I can imagine that Rahab's clan are during this time taking over the sunken monastery, and Zephon's clan are also waging their war on the Silenced Cathedral. As for Melchiah's clan they could be added.

I hope that there are some familiar landmarks to fight over.

Zulmaluka
25th Sep 2013, 15:11
The video from youtube really got me hyped and it looks like a potentially fun game play, looking forward to closed/open beta.
Would love some more info and lore to get immersed with as well.

Odeena
25th Sep 2013, 15:29
Same as Stonehorse, I do hope the other three clans (Rahabim, Zephonim and Melchiahim) will be added at some point. The game just wouldn't feel complete without all six clans there.
So far, I love the trailer and I'm very eager to try the game. I've never played any multiplayer 3rd person games (not seriously, anyway), this should be fun. :)

JanusDominus
25th Sep 2013, 15:29
A bit better than I expected. Love the little continuity nods. You'll need a lot of these to convince the old guard you're for real.

jjshloam
25th Sep 2013, 15:36
Disappointment. From the art direction it looks like the developers have never played any previous game in the series, same can be said about the gameplay. the vampires look like bald orcs from warhammer40k. it just looks like squareenix just stamped the nosgoth logo on a game which has nothing to do with the series what so ever. you guys could've sold this as a gears of war middle age prequel.
first hitman, then tomb raider and now this. square was the worst thing to happen to eidos.

here's a friendly tip, enable comments on the youtube trailer video to find out what the real reaction to the game is.

Ap0ka1yps3
25th Sep 2013, 15:37
I am really excited about what this game will be like, how it will continue and evolve the story, I like the idea of using that 500 year timeframe to establish a new story and all of that, the design looks great too, the only thing that bothers me is the design of the Razielim, I know what they are going for, but I think they still should look more human then monster, all in all their leader was killed not long ago so why the fast transformation?
I'm really looking forward to the closed alpha/beta and hope that I can play one of those

Ap0ka1yps3
25th Sep 2013, 15:43
Disappointment. From the art direction it looks like the developers have never played any previous game in the series, same can be said about the gameplay. the vampires look like bald orcs from warhammer40k. it just looks like squareenix just stamped the nosgoth logo on a game which has nothing to do with the series what so ever. you guys could've sold this as a gears of war middle age prequel.
first hitman, then tomb raider and now this. square was the worst thing to happen to eidos.

here's a friendly tip, enable comments on the youtube trailer video to find out what the real reaction to the game is.

I know what you mean, I'm a huge fan, but if you want a true LoK Sequel or new game of the franchise and you won't let the people have new ideas and styles work into it, you will always be disappointed, think about it, you can be glad that "Dead Sun" was canceled, this had nothing to do with LoK, but Nosgoth has the Lore and everything, it's just grittier and darker now, it was a design-choice, that doesn't mean that the game will be bad

and to the other games you mentioned, Hitman Absolution was a great game, it was like any other Hitman, only that it had a bigger story built around it
the new tomb raider also was a great game, it took away the cheesy Amazon that we used to know, made her younger and more fragile (even though she mowed through hordes of enemyes at the end :/ ), but they gave us a great backstory of how she became the strong woman we love from the previous games

all in all you shouldn't judge a game by design choices and things like that, you should be happy they are making a new game in this world and to me it looks like they know what they are doing

panstach
25th Sep 2013, 15:46
One question: how can you 'expect to have a lot of interaction with the community' with comments and ratings disabled ?

Monkeythumbz
25th Sep 2013, 15:55
One question: how can you 'expect to have a lot of interaction with the community' with comments and ratings disabled ?

I'm currently responding to people personally via Twitter, Facebook and multiple sets of forums.

Omisri
25th Sep 2013, 16:15
Half and Half. What had drawn me into LoK was nothing to do with combat. I personally thought the combat in those games was terrible. It was the deep and rich story that got me hooked. The twists and turns in plot and how i loved or loathed certain characters.

YourWaywardDestiny
25th Sep 2013, 16:18
Honestly, there seems to be a lot of initial let-down for the game, but I've never been one to be scared off by a series going a different direction. The announcement wasn't made all that long ago, but people are already going "ITS DIFFERENT. IT IS BAD." Seriously, it's like when Elder Scrolls Online was announced. At first everyone was all "I HATE IT ALREADY. I WILL NEVER GET IT." but now that we've had a while, some good press, learned there is an attentive team behind it, we all can't wait.

Something tells me this is exactly what will happen here. The LOK fans will have their fits, we'll get some feed back from what has been done, get a little less angry, start to see what is going on in the closed beta, then become interested, and given our trusty team behind it is indeed a trusty, attentive team, we'll all be drooling ourselves before it's launch.

I don't know why we would want to be so negative about it anyway. The last in the Kain series was released in 2003. That was a decade ago, people. Can't we just be happy for a minute that all is not lost for the universe it's set in?

88chaz88
25th Sep 2013, 16:24
My initial thoughts? Crushing despair. I've been a big Legacy of Kain fan from Soul Reaver onwards, and finding out the series has been revived only for it to become yet another shooter, well... it's not really what I'd have had in mind.

However, I thought it over for a bit and realised this isn't the first time the series changed direction. The original Blood Omen is far different from the mechanics that most people loved in the subsequent games. Was Soul Reaver met with the same initial disappointment? Could be. In the end it turned out to be a fantastic game though, and propelled the series forward. In fact it's probably worth mentioning that the mechanics of Soul Reaver were as done to death as shooters are now.

Now I'm also a fan of asynchronous multiplayer. I find it a lot more interesting than having two sides just shoot each other with the only difference being the colour of shirt they wear. So without the legacy of, ahem, Legacy of Kain behind it, I'd have been interested right away. With it, hell, I'm even more so!

You guys have a gargantuan task ahead of you in not only developing a great shooter on it's own merits, but also trying to please old fans of the series while doing so. I wish you all the best in this endeavour, and will likely be hanging around the boards arguing this or that.

BTW, the artwork was pretty much what won me over in the end. All the designs are clearly LoK inspired. I love it.

jjshloam
25th Sep 2013, 16:24
I'm currently responding to people personally via Twitter, Facebook and multiple sets of forums.

sounds exhausting. why not just enable the comments and take all the hate like a man. and i'll share the Main reason for the hate.. the series was dead and is revived years later NOT to continue/finish the main story but as a f2p third person shooter.

the main things that the series was loved for was the amazing voice acting/ script, and the story. other things were lackluster. a f2p 3rd person shooter will not have a story or those god tier voice actors. you should've just called it something else instead of slapping on the nosgoth logo.

and you can screencap this: LoK has a niche audience which will not be interested in this. The 3rd person crowd to which you are pandering to will also not care as this game is not a millitary shooter which is the in thing these days. The game will be doa. which sucks as fans might not get a true LoK sequel ever because of this games' failure.

88chaz88
25th Sep 2013, 16:35
it just looks like squareenix just stamped the nosgoth logo on a game which has nothing to do with the series what so ever.

You realise this is almost exactly what happened with Soul Reaver right? It started off as a game called Shifter but then turned into a LoK game with the same mechanics, just a changed lore/story.

Blackykun
25th Sep 2013, 16:40
If this is set before vampires are completely degenerate, like in SR1, how come the Razielim showcased is completely degenerate?

Why do the vid say this is set after SR1 if it isnt, and if it is, how does whole thing make any sense at all?

Or are we throwing the lore out and nothing is canon? Because that's kind of 99% of the appeal of LoK. That and the voice acting, of which I wonder about. Will we have Simon Templemann at least narrate the intro or something?

By the way, we do remember that humans are confined to a single city and only kept around as challenge for fledgling vampires, and that without vampire stewardship of the Pillars (which should be shattered at this point in the timeline), the world will inevitably end up in a hellish nightmare (where hilariously, humans are still barely around, now hunting demons, with cannons and dogs, in the far future compared to this.)

Siiigh, I fully expect forum purges, account bans and whatnot already.

Limed00d
25th Sep 2013, 16:43
At first, I was kinda skeptical, because it contradicts the lore (that, and I'm a big LoK fanboy)
But judging from the gameplay, it DOES have some potential. If done right, I believe that Nosgoth might be good.

88chaz88
25th Sep 2013, 16:50
If this is set before vampires are completely degenerate, like in SR1, how come the Razielim showcased is completely degenerate?

Well Raziel was the first so perhaps his clan "degenerated" first. Or perhaps it was because they weren't under Raziel's influence any more. Could be a ton of other reasons.

I'm more concerned with the fact that surely Kain killed them all off by now.

LordMortanius
25th Sep 2013, 16:51
Hi guys, developers and fellow players.

To say I am a huge fan of LoK would be a severe understatement and so you can imagine I am glad to be a part of this! So then, on to my initial thoughts. Seeing a game come out of your favorite series and finding out it is the farthest thing removed from what your series was is not going to be an easy thing to get over.

That said, I will do my best to remain as impartial as possible because judging from the trailer you developers looked like you put a substantial amount of efforts into this. I am hesitant but intrigued at these new changes. Which leads me to only one question, can we play as a necromancer? Disciples of Mortanius anyone? :D

SireofVorador
25th Sep 2013, 16:52
Well well well its finally here! well almost..

I myself am one of the old guard of Legacy of Kain fans who played the games as they where released and instantly took them to hart and became a massive fan! When i found out that Nosgoth was in the works, much like everyone else i was almost at bursting point with excitement desperate to find out any information i could to the point where i probably annoyed George far too much.

I then discovered it was going to be an online title to which i then started panicking that it may end up being one of those awful MOBA games! Thankfully its not. Obviously though , lets get the obvious out of the way here that none of us are under any illusions of - this is not the legacy of Kain game we have been wanting. Yeah this is true! very true infact! but if i may ask, just hold on a little second or two and lets have a think here. We have a new Legacy of Kain game that has brought the IP back to the public's awareness other than the forums that we are all on. The game is FREE to play and lets us explore a new era in Nosgoth's history where as soon as the trailer starts we catch a glimpse of what happens to the Razielim clan that survived. the visuals looked great in my opinion and the game isn't even out yet, there is still a lot to do. I for one will be giving this game a really good portion of my time to get myself back into Nosgoth, but a Nosgoth that will be new to me and that's exiting! Considering the work that has been put into the look of this game, who is to say this isn't the start of something with this team working within Nosgoth.

If any one wants that new story driven game that continues a story then be patient, its not like we haven't been already, but right now we have Nosgoth and i think it looks great for what it is!

RainaAudron
25th Sep 2013, 16:56
Why do the vid say this is set after SR1 if it isnt, and if it is, how does whole thing make any sense at all?

Because it takes place after Raziel is cast into the abyss, but before he gets back.

I think that everybody should give the game a chance first and also not forget, lots of stuff can and will be changed/updated, as they gather feedback. I had a chance to play it and it was fun, so I am looking forward to participate in the upcoming testing.

Blackykun
25th Sep 2013, 16:58
Because its set in an era engulfed by multiple LoK titles already. We know how it ends.

The game looks basically like Infected vs Survivor L4D, just with LoK terms thrown in, and without hordes of pointless zombies (probably). The visuals are irrelevant, and will always be shined out by more supported designers and IPs.

Sigh, this has about as much hope as Warhammer fantasy had. Which might be good, that game had little right to survive past its initial release, got almost good and then dropped into obscurity and died.

This is all so depressing.

YourWaywardDestiny
25th Sep 2013, 17:00
It's set after the events that KICK OFF SOUL REAVER. Meaning the time where Raziel is taking his sweet time swimming around in the abyss. And we only say one city near the Pillars in SR1. I can't imagine Kain would have an empire of vampires and not enough sport for all of them to happily munch on. Don't be so negative. We have been given very little of what the game entails. We don't have to hate something before we even have it on our plate.

Blackykun
25th Sep 2013, 17:00
Then we're back at why razielim are more degenerate then the rest.

I mean ****, Turel got thrown into the past, yet we see mostly human turelim.

88chaz88
25th Sep 2013, 17:04
Then we're back at why razielim are more degenerate then the rest.

I mean ****, Turel got thrown into the past, yet we see mostly human turelim.

Perhaps Turel is still around, perhaps the Razielim are physically scarred by Kain as punishment. We don't know yet.

Perhaps I'm doing the writer's job for them. :(

Blackykun
25th Sep 2013, 17:09
Lets throw in that Raziel developed the wings mutation first, and normally only centuries after did the rest of the clan develop the mutation after the clan leader. So if we have winged razielim, this has to be set quite after Raziel being thrown into the abyss (which should have immediately started the genocide of the razielim, leaving only a few completely degenerated and ferals alive, according to Crystal Dynamics). But by SR, humans are completely crushed. So... There isn't such a great span of time for the story afterall. This was a horrible era to choose for a new game. Having Sarafan vs BO2 Vampires would have made more sense.

Vraelis
25th Sep 2013, 17:15
Intiial Impressions

- Aesthetically perfect, really; just bang-on, baroque excellence.
- Making Dumahim the stealthy one - no, no, no. Zephonim are right there, guys. Dumahim would make great berserkers; fast, fragile, high damage.
- Turelim; fine. That's a good a place as any for them.
- Razielim; I like the direction you've taken.
- Humans all look solid; would kind of like to see some Sarafan fanboys.

Will there be more classes? I personally would like to see Zephonim assassins and Melchaim bodysnatchers. Rahabim are a tough one, to be honest, but they'd fit as a support-type, if you think about it. Dousing fires with their hydrokinesis, exploiting some water on the map for a bit of extra mobility.

jjshloam
25th Sep 2013, 17:15
Having Sarafan vs BO2 Vampires would have made more sense.

agreed.

Abolist
25th Sep 2013, 17:19
Ahhhh yes! I place where you are asking for my opinion on this. Well to be totally (painfully) straight with you about my 1st impression on this I've got to be kind of a butt head. Its a kick in the proverbial gamer nut sack. Once again it looks like Square (like everyone else, in Squares defense) has put a group of people in a room to debate on what they should do with a cherished game license and in typical current Square fashion they choices where to totally alienate and ignore the core fan base for the franchise, reach into a grab bag of poll opinions on what gamers want these days and run with whatever it is they pulled out (in this cases the dreaded F2P multiplayer and notoriously invasive micro transaction stores). We see it every day so lets not avoid a key player in this, League of Legends. Probably the current kings in the market your going to be trying to tap into, they got there by doing it right and making the micro transaction a viable option, not rubbing it in your face like.... ehhh... Guild Wars 2 or Neverwiner. Its a pretty fat hog with plenty of meat to spare so aiming that way (although how illogical it seems in nut shooting a franchises core player base) is logical. If you liked LoK you might just want to set this one out.

Cough hack weeze

And on the pro side (yes I'll give them something for giving me a childhood of enjoyable video games :P) what you have shown us does not look so bad. Humans VS Vamps in a fairly unique setting (anyone who has played any of the LoK games will preach about how amazing the worlds in those games feel and look) that takes action PVP away from the simulated deserts of the middle east and into something fresh for once. The classes on both sides of the coins looked unique and fun to mess around with though in todays market we should be expecting more of each.

All that being said I'll keep an eye on this to see what it grows into but I'll have a sour taste in my mouth the entire time. Why you thought it would be a good idea to take a franchise that relied heavily upon its amazing story, ace voice acting cast and mild creepy pacing and strip it down into an interpenetration of LoK Call of Duty I'll never truly know. You have my information, if you want to make some serious money without slapping around your core audience I'll be in touch.

Therealrabban
25th Sep 2013, 17:24
Is it just me or does the Melchahim level concept art (2:24) have statues of Hylden?

Neverrend
25th Sep 2013, 17:26
I would love to know why the Razielim are even still alive. What happened to the mass genocide that befell them after Raziel was tossed into the Abyss...? And, like others have asked, why they are more degenerative looking than the other clans? Turel was flung into the past, though I'm not exactly where between the time Raziel was executed and the time he was revived that, that had happened, so why are they so messed up. "Utter desolation. My once-proud kin, wiped from this world like excrement from a boot.
I knew the hand that wrought this deed..." ―Raziel. I hope this game sheds some light on this and why Kain has yet to eradicate Raziel's clan.

SireofVorador
25th Sep 2013, 17:26
perhaps the Turelim where fed with the best " food " so that sustained them better where as the remaining razielim would have to live off of beasts and other animals, its just an idea though.

88chaz88
25th Sep 2013, 17:26
Having Sarafan vs BO2 Vampires would have made more sense.

I disagree. Well, perhaps it would have made more sense, but I find the whole Sarafan vs Vampire conflict uninspiring myself. The Vampires that come from the original Sarafan, i.e. Raziel, Turel, Zephon and co, are far more interesting. I also like humans to be the few hunted ones, it adds desperation to their cause, and each man is probably pretty heroic considering they don't have glyph energy.

Vamped
25th Sep 2013, 17:41
Gender locking? Really? This is 2013

YourWaywardDestiny
25th Sep 2013, 17:44
Is it just me or does the Melchahim level concept art (2:24) have statues of Hylden?

I think those are helmets, but they do look very close.

Razhoir
25th Sep 2013, 18:01
Lets throw in that Raziel developed the wings mutation first, and normally only centuries after did the rest of the clan develop the mutation after the clan leader. So if we have winged razielim, this has to be set quite after Raziel being thrown into the abyss (which should have immediately started the genocide of the razielim, leaving only a few completely degenerated and ferals alive, according to Crystal Dynamics). But by SR, humans are completely crushed. So... There isn't such a great span of time for the story afterall. This was a horrible era to choose for a new game. Having Sarafan vs BO2 Vampires would have made more sense.

Talking about horrible era/storyline : BO2.

Seriously though, I hope Psyonix took their inspirations from any game but this one. I'd rather think of it as an alternative storyline than a part of the LoK series.

lucinvampire
25th Sep 2013, 18:15
As others have raised points about the hands, feet, fangs, etc I will choose another thought that puzzles me...all the vampires seem follicly challenged...what happened to all their hair?

88chaz88
25th Sep 2013, 18:26
As others have raised points about the hands, feet, fangs, etc I will choose another thought that puzzles me...all the vampires seem follicly challenged...what happened to all their hair?

Do you not remember the Chewbaccahim? The devs are probably saving all the hair for their future inclusion.

MasterShuriko
25th Sep 2013, 18:33
Got some great hopes for this game =D

I just hope that the thing you pay for in-game is only cosmetical so it doesnt affect gameplay

Blackykun
25th Sep 2013, 18:34
Do you not remember the Chewbaccahim? The devs are probably saving all the hair for their future inclusion.

Pay4hair

This is too terrible to contemplate.

Jeffers
25th Sep 2013, 18:40
Talking about horrible era/storyline : BO2.

Seriously though, I hope Psyonix took their inspirations from any game but this one. I'd rather think of it as an alternative storyline than a part of the LoK series.

The game itself sits in the period between Kain tossing Raziel into the Abyss and Raziel emerging from the underworld, within the existing Soul Reaver storyline. While I was sceptical to an extent, it does fit into the area well. We know the bit from either side of that bit of time, we know Kain tosses Raziel into the abyss, we know that the empire stretches out and expands, the clans disperse and the Razielm are hunted down and exterminated, we know that humans are still around during this period and can construct and defend a stronghold (Human Citadel from Soul Reaver).

The game can and does fit within the History of Nosgoth, the key little bit to remember is that it is about Nosgoth, not the Legacy of Kain bit (but that they are all linked) :)

MasterShuriko
25th Sep 2013, 18:58
The game itself sits in the period between Kain tossing Raziel into the Abyss and Raziel emerging from the underworld, within the existing Soul Reaver storyline. While I was sceptical to an extent, it does fit into the area well. We know the bit from either side of that bit of time, we know Kain tosses Raziel into the abyss, we know that the empire stretches out and expands, the clans disperse and the Razielm are hunted down and exterminated, we know that humans are still around during this period and can construct and defend a stronghold (Human Citadel from Soul Reaver).

The game can and does fit within the History of Nosgoth, the key little bit to remember is that it is about Nosgoth, not the Legacy of Kain bit (but that they are all linked) :)

To be really optimistic then.
Since this happens between said timelines, I have a question.

DO WE GET TO MEET KAIN!?
Or any of the other Clan-leaders in this game?
Learn more lore from each of the Clan-leaders perspective?
Will there be important Charachters to meet for Both sides Vampire and Human? :eek: (mindblown)

Le_Don
25th Sep 2013, 19:12
Well, first impression. I'm sorry, but I'm not buying your interest in the community, when you are deactivating votes and comments on your announcement trailer. I do understand that people can say ugly things, but it is just their honest opinion and I don't think negative reactions are really surprising. It's about the impression you make to the people and the people might ask themself, why they should take an active role in your forum, when their opinion might just get deleted.

Beside that I have a strange feeling. I'm not very interested in 3rd Person multiplayer shooter (or how to call this), so normally I wouldn't care about your game very much and I would be fine with that. But somehow I do care and that is in fact a problem for me, because it is getting emotional in a bad way.

But well, the game itself. Sorry, but it's not looking that interesting. Asynchronous gameplay looks fine, but at the moment it seems to have only 3 different classes for each teams, which seems to be to little. And then I begin to wonder how different the humans are. I don't yet understand the difference between the Hunter and the Scout, althoug the Scout might be the fast pase guy, while the Hunter is... well, a Hunter, whatever that means. I have to think of Team Fortress 2 and how each character looks very different, so you can identify them very easily, which is very important for competetive gaming (it should be). But the humans in Nosgoth seems so far to be very identical. I hope they play very different and I have to play different against them. I love stealth, so the Reaver class might be interesting, but stealth feels often very clunky in many games, so hopefully stealth will feel good in Nosgoth. And yes, it seems to be a strange decision to take the Dumahim as the wall crawling stealth class and not the Zephonim, which had wall crawling as their uniquie abilitie (yea, to be honest: it's weird). Beside that I think the Dumahim should actually be what the Turelim are, because the Dumah and the Dumahim had been the bulky clan, while the Turelim had been more about telekinesis and their unique shape (big ears, twisted legs). Right now it seems the Dumahim and the Turelim are missing the point of their origins. Last of all I wonder what goal each round will have. Please don't say it will be team deathmath, because I personally can get really bored with that.

Vampmaster
25th Sep 2013, 19:17
If this is set before vampires are completely degenerate, like in SR1, how come the Razielim showcased is completely degenerate?

Why do the vid say this is set after SR1 if it isnt, and if it is, how does whole thing make any sense at all?

Or are we throwing the lore out and nothing is canon? Because that's kind of 99% of the appeal of LoK. That and the voice acting, of which I wonder about. Will we have Simon Templemann at least narrate the intro or something?

By the way, we do remember that humans are confined to a single city and only kept around as challenge for fledgling vampires, and that without vampire stewardship of the Pillars (which should be shattered at this point in the timeline), the world will inevitably end up in a hellish nightmare (where hilariously, humans are still barely around, now hunting demons, with cannons and dogs, in the far future compared to this.)

Siiigh, I fully expect forum purges, account bans and whatnot already.

Where does it say the humans in the citadel were the only ones left in the whole world? You think the areas in SR1 make up the entire planet?

Jeffers
25th Sep 2013, 19:25
To be really optimistic then.
Since this happens between said timelines, I have a question.

DO WE GET TO MEET KAIN!?
Or any of the other Clan-leaders in this game?
Learn more lore from each of the Clan-leaders perspective?
Will there be important Charachters to meet for Both sides Vampire and Human? :eek: (mindblown)

Can try and answer as much as I know, but will pull fro other sources :)

1. No, you won't.

Source: http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=138956

Quote:


17. Is the game gory and will there be Kain and Raziel in it?



The game will be very violent, but as far as I'm aware the Soul Reaver sword does not appear in the game. Neither do Kain or Raziel for very good reasons - they're both busy doing... other things at the time of the game's setting. They're in Nosgoth (obviously), but they're not in Nosgoth (as in the game). It would make no sense for them to be so, narrative-wise. As explained before, it's on a separate branch of the IP, but is in continuity with the overall lore. Also, Anarcrothe is NOT playable, totally wrong time-frame.

2. Not that I'm aware of, hopefully the lore will be expanded further upon as to where the Clan Leaders are. The majority of Nosgoth "maps" for lack of a better word are set in locations referenced in any number of the pervious games, but not necessarily visited.

3. I hope so :)

4. Don't know sorry, as it's a multiplayer game I don't think so, however I don't know what SE/Psyonix have planned :)

Does that help?

Ramtin3
25th Sep 2013, 19:28
I have waited soooo long for a worthy sequel in the legacy of kain series. I didn't even mind if it had a new main character. I only had one real condition, as long as it stayed a single player experience, or at least had rpg elements if you will make it an online experience, where we could re-discover nosgoth in all its glory. And this game has become (at first glance) the one thing I didn't want it to be. Load a map, now, kill as much as possible. It seems they chose to make this game for the non-lok fans. Where the original series had so much depth, it seems this has none at all.

It may be too soon to judge. I hope this game is not revolved around just killing, but has depth and lets you develope your character and make you feel as if you're some one in the lok world. I don't want to see the opposite faction around every corner, I want to be able to explore nosgoth in it's eary silence with it's eary signature score. Please, do not make this a shallow game.

Only thing I like for now, is the concept art. I am a concept artist myself and I can appreciate its quality, and it's wonderful to see some more of nosgoth, even if it's in a possible disaster game.

MasterShuriko
25th Sep 2013, 19:31
Can try and answer as much as I know, but will pull fro other sources :)

1. No, you won't.

Source: http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=138956

2. Not that I'm aware of, hopefully the lore will be expanded further upon as to where the Clan Leaders are. The majority of Nosgoth "maps" for lack of a better word are set in locations referenced in any number of the pervious games, but not necessarily visited.

3. I hope so :)

4. Don't know sorry, as it's a multiplayer game I don't think so, however I don't know what SE/Psyonix have planned :)

Does that help?

Abit =D Its teasing me! I wanna know moar!:poke:

Vampmaster
25th Sep 2013, 19:32
Disappointment. From the art direction it looks like the developers have never played any previous game in the series, same can be said about the gameplay. the vampires look like bald orcs from warhammer40k. it just looks like squareenix just stamped the nosgoth logo on a game which has nothing to do with the series what so ever. you guys could've sold this as a gears of war middle age prequel.
first hitman, then tomb raider and now this. square was the worst thing to happen to eidos.

here's a friendly tip, enable comments on the youtube trailer video to find out what the real reaction to the game is.

The Orcs in Warhammer are green, have oversized jaws with equally oversized teeth. The Turelim in this game do not.
The Orcs appear to have three or four times the muscle mass of the Turelim in this game, making the the Orcs look disproportioned.
They wear ridiculously oversized viking armour. The Turelim in this game do not.

Jeffers
25th Sep 2013, 19:36
Abit =D Its teasing me! I wanna know moar!:poke:

Haha.

I would say be excited. Remember it is a multiplayer game and from that point of view, it has an emphesis on teamwork with it and less on story, but it is something to be excited about though ;)

ViolentMuffin
25th Sep 2013, 19:41
I usually try to be careful with my opinions. I didn’t rage when the reboot of DMC was announced, and enjoyed DmC: Devil May Cry. It’s a fine game, I had a lot of fun playing it and enjoyed its style.

When I first read that Nosgoth is supposed to be a multiplayer game, I’ve just accepted it. It pointless to judge a game before hearing anything else about it. Moreover, I praise the choice of the genre. There probably isn’t better option to attract new players and softly introduce them into the series and lore. And if it becomes successful, we, the old fans of the series will probably get a new single player story-cantered game! SO LETS FRIGGIN SUPPORT IT!!!
And I really like low system requirements. :)

Now some impressions from the trailer.

Graphics. The game is using Unreal Engine 3, am I correct? I don’t know if it’s the property of the ngine, but it’s very colourful. The LoK series never avoided colours, but it was more serious and toned down. That’s my only notice regarding Nosgoth’s style, I’d like to see more visuals!

Vampire and human concepts. Humans are fine. It’s explained, that they’re rediscovering the technology, so their progression is presented well. But vampires... Razielim is a monster, while Dumahim and Turelim are still human-like? That’s strange, I thought they all should exhibit some degree of devolution. Maybe it’s one mature vampire and two fledglings? But then, where are Razielim’s claws?! To what I can’t agree, is that Dumahim are supposed to be stealthy assassins – it’s Zephonim role. I wrote more about it in Q&A thread. And can we get the choice of sex while selecting a class? Half of the gamers are women, so lets be inclusive!

Mechanics? I’m eager to see more!

Music. Here I can’t stay level-headed. I just hate pompous pieces like the one presented in the trailer. It has some elements characteristic to the LoK series, but it’s still just an equivalent of pop music in classical/symphonic music, just like in Guild Wars 2 (Jeremy Soul IS NOT a good composer). I’m listening to the Soul Reaver 2 OST, and this is exactly something that hits the spot! I don’t want the music in Nosgoth to be the same as in SR2. I want it to be on the same level of artistry. If it’s impossible, I’d like to have an option to import my own music to the game.

I hope I don’t sound too discouraging, because I’d really like to see what kind of game will it be when it’s released. I wish developers many luck and motivation during the production! :)

Kainslegacy
25th Sep 2013, 19:46
thank you! it is so hard to explain this to other people that are old guard.

Moesph
25th Sep 2013, 19:48
Beside that I think the Dumahim should actually be what the Turelim are, because the Dumah and the Dumahim had been the bulky clan, while the Turelim had been more about telekinesis and their unique shape (big ears, twisted legs).
Their proportions are right, the Turelim may have been specialised in telekenises, but that doesn't take away from the fact they were a huge and bulky clan in comparison to Dumahim, they were easily twice the size of a Dumahim when you saw them in SR, and even Turel himself before devolution was easily taller and bulkier than Dumah.

It could be that the other vampires we see are fledglings in comparison to the Razielim we see, as Raziel is no longer around to sire new ones, the ones that are left are likely older left over remnants of the clan, choosing sides to prolong their existance.

CAR105_3
25th Sep 2013, 19:48
Like many of you I've played the game since the first Blood Omen, and this game has an incredible potential to be good. I have waited for a LoK game since defiance and I am very excited about this game.

CAR105_3
25th Sep 2013, 19:56
When I first read that Nosgoth is supposed to be a multiplayer game, I’ve just accepted it. It pointless to judge a game before hearing anything else about it. Moreover, I praise the choice of the genre. There probably isn’t better option to attract new players and softly introduce them into the series and lore. And if it becomes successful, we, the old fans of the series will probably get a new single player story-cantered game! SO LETS FRIGGIN SUPPORT IT!!!
And I really like low system requirements
Exactly this is just the first step in reviving the franchise. If they made an old style LoK game it would probably tank because there arent many gamers looking for a deep narrative experience.

Alhazredd
25th Sep 2013, 19:58
Why make a multiplayer adaptation of a single player story telling game with puzzle solving elements?
why not just finish the series like it would have been 10 years ago without resorting to
"An ancient evil awakens"
Pan over to Raziel and Kain near the pillars
Raziel is holding a can of Moutain Dew and a bag of doritos
Raziel: So this is how it ends
Kain: It hasn't even begun
SKREEEEEEEEEEEWUUUUBwubwubwubWUUUUB
Clips of Raziel shooting from wall cover with force blasts
"**** you, Kain, you're not god, this act of genocide is uncool bro."
WubwubWUUUUUB
QTE bosses
Regenerating health
OST by Skrillex ft. Linkin Park
Developed by Bioware
Published by EA
This summer, Adam Sandler
Preorder Mobious the Dewstreamer edition 59.99

guys seriously
guys
guys listen to me
guys why not just end the series you dont need to milk it for money get Amy Hennig to whip out the new story for the next game. and just scrap this one
two things are going to happen if this game is successful, gets a lot of attention ect then you're going to end up making some filthy abomination to the LoK series that will just ruin it
if this is a failure then no one will ever make another LoK game again
also seriously humans with grenade launchers and flame throwers in LoK, really? the sarafan were as skilled and dangerous as vampires without needing modern weapons
also winged vampires are supposed to be rare
and the razielim were all slaughtered in soul reaver 1 immediatly after raziel was tossed in the pit

Moesph
25th Sep 2013, 20:08
also seriously humans with grenade launchers and flame throwers in LoK, really? the sarafan were as skilled and dangerous as vampires without needing modern weapons
Soul Reaver 2.

Alhazredd
25th Sep 2013, 20:10
but why would they have grenade launchers and flame throwers?
if humans had, had those in soul reaver 1 why wouldnt the sarafan still have been using them in SR2?
or any human for that matter

The_Hylden
25th Sep 2013, 20:12
Siiigh, I fully expect forum purges, account bans and whatnot already.

Why is that? Saying such things just asks to bring negativity to follow. I've never seen any "forum purges" by the staff at Eidos, now Square. Maybe you're thinking of another game company :p

ViolentMuffin
25th Sep 2013, 20:15
but why would they have grenade launchers and flame throwers?
if humans had, had those in soul reaver 1 why wouldnt the sarafan still have been using them in SR2?
or any human for that matter

In SR1 humans had flamethrowers. And crossbows. And armor that totally didn't look like from medieval times. I'd expect something more advanced than crossbows though, but, well, computer game logic?
SR2 is in the past, so technology is more primitive too.

Alhazredd
25th Sep 2013, 20:17
i guesssssssss

Moesph
25th Sep 2013, 20:20
The Sarafan are trained paladins, the vampire hunters were mainly a militia of civilians using methods they know are strong against vampires, pointy things and fire.

Vampmaster
25th Sep 2013, 20:21
In SR1 humans had flamethrowers. And crossbows. And armor that totally didn't look like from medieval times. I'd expect something more advanced than crossbows though, but, well, computer game logic?
SR2 is in the past, so technology is more primitive too.

The Chinese were using fireworks and other explosives as weapons as early as the 7th century:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fireworks

Sounds pretty medival to me. There's no reason why humans in Nosgoth couldn't have a similar level of understanding.

ViolentMuffin
25th Sep 2013, 20:24
The Sarafan are trained paladins, the vampire hunters were mainly a militia of civilians using methods they know are strong against vampires, pointy things and fire.

I think it was said that vampire hunters were mercenaries, so they shouldn't be so ignorant.

'pointy things and fire' +1 for this xD

Concern for the minute details is at the same time impressive, scary and hilarious. :P


The Chinese were using fireworks and other explosives as weapons as early as the 7th century:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fireworks

Sounds pretty medival to me. There's no reason why humans in Nosgoth couldn't have a similar level of understanding.

You've got a point.

Vampmaster
25th Sep 2013, 20:28
Also, the medieval mask at the top left of here looks a lot like some of the armor seen in Nosgoth:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_Ages

Alhazredd
25th Sep 2013, 20:31
The Chinese were using fireworks and other explosives as weapons as early as the 7th century:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fireworks

Sounds pretty medival to me. There's no reason why humans in Nosgoth couldn't have a similar level of understanding.

but this isnt real life and we're talking about a small almost modernized grenade launcher and flame thrower to this http://www.absolutechinatours.com/UploadFiles/ImageBase/Fireworks-China-ancient-inventions.jpg

http://fourriverscharter.org/projects/Inventions/pages/china_rocket.htm

http://inventors.about.com/library/inventors/blrockethistory.htm

jjshloam
25th Sep 2013, 20:31
Exactly this is just the first step in reviving the franchise. If they made an old style LoK game it would probably tank because there arent many gamers looking for a deep narrative experience.

and this desperate f2p pay2win cashgrab attempt by square wont tank? changing the genre sure worked well for Xcom and syndicate. Remember those? no?


If they made an old style LoK game it would probably tank because there arent many gamers looking for a deep narrative experience.

don't know what you've been smoking but that's EXACTLY what the fans of LoK series want as opposed to a poor mans monday night combat which wont even have a 100 player count after two months.

Germaximus
25th Sep 2013, 20:32
I don't understand the hate. I'm not a big PvP fan but the second I saw some of the gameplay in the video I was in love. To the ridiculous people that think it's just "slapping" the name on: how do you not see LoK in the game? To me it looks exactly like LoK, just multiplayer instead.

I'll definitely be playing a vampire first. They look so awesome!

I'd love to see a new single-player game as much as anybody else. But I think this looks really damn cool.

Alhazredd
25th Sep 2013, 20:33
I don't understand the hate. I'm not a big PvP fan but the second I saw some of the gameplay in the video I was in love. To the ridiculous people that think it's just "slapping" the name on: how do you not see LoK in the game? To me it looks exactly like LoK, just multiplayer instead.

I'll definitely be playing a vampire first. They look so awesome!

square enix employee pls go

Alhazredd
25th Sep 2013, 20:33
and this desperate f2p pay2win cashgrab attempt by square wont tank? changing the genre sure worked well for Xcom and syndicate. Remember those? no?



don't know what you've been smoking but that's EXACTLY what the fans of LoK series want as opposed to a poor mans monday night combat which wont even have a 100 player count after two months.

all of this

Germaximus
25th Sep 2013, 20:36
square enix employee pls go

lol Seriously? Idiot "pls go".

Alhazredd
25th Sep 2013, 20:38
lol Seriously? Idiot "pls go".

"I don't understand the hate. I'm not a big PvP fan but the second I saw some of the gameplay in the video I was in love. To the ridiculous people that think it's just "slapping" the name on: how do you not see LoK in the game? To me it looks exactly like LoK, just multiplayer instead.

I'll definitely be playing a vampire first. They look so awesome!

I'd love to see a new single-player game as much as anybody else. But I think this looks really damn cool."

Square enix please stop being ironic

Moesph
25th Sep 2013, 20:41
http://legacyofkain.wikia.com/wiki/Vampire_hunter_cannoneers

The_Hylden
25th Sep 2013, 20:41
Since others have gone to the what we currently know, I'll also add points to clear up about this (I'll do this in the Razielim thread, too):

This is set a couple of centuries after Raziel was Abyssed. Over the years, we've uncovered that Raziel is in the Abyss for 500 years before waking up and the events of ingame SR1 take place.

So, there are still 300 years to go before that happens. 300 years to go for Turel to be sent back through time, for the rest of the Razielim to either be eradicated, to flee into hiding, and for the humans to hold up the remaining of their civilization -- the ones that have not been domesticated by the vampires -- in the Citadel. Would their inevitable loss to the vampires (come on; we all know they aren't going to win -- but it will be interesting to see the changes they might affect, like below with Dumah, along the way) not make their retreat into that walled-in city by then make sense?

This is the uprising, or the first of them, that probably leads to Dumah getting stuck like a pig on his throne and his fortress abandoned. Remember, humans did that to him in SR1.

This is the war that probably leads to the humans seeking salvation in the Priestess within the Citadel. (the last "probables" are only speculation on my part).


Given the above, the setting of Nosgoth, meaning the cities and what we see in the gameplay of the world not yet turned into an full-on arid wasteland of SR1 *ingame* fits. To those who dismiss the setting as something not Nosgoth-like, that is just not true. It does fit with the world going slowly to hell. It looks very much less BO2 and far more SR2 post-Pillars' fall, where the Demons were roaming about.


Humans had hand cannons in SR2, and had fashioned more steam-punk-ish/upgraded armor, and flamethrowers/rapid-fire cross bows in SR1. Showing them with some form of grenade launcher (which you might note glows blue, as if some potion, or magic element -- in this case from the Alchemist class -- has been added to whatever explosive it is).

The vampires aren't necessarily following yet with the claws and feet due to various stages of when such evolution is passed on from their sire, how old they are, etc. That's the official word.


On that, I do agree, as do many others, that we need to see the tri-claws and two-towed, talon-like appendages. We also need to see in all vampires (as this was always instant and universal in their creation) the pointy ears. Turel's clan should be very large ears, much larger than the other clans.


I also would like a redesign of the Razielim in at the very least their wings. They look very much more Alien Xenomorph/Giger art, and not the bat-wings we've seen from Raiziel. I also agree they need to start lower on the back.

But, the helmets and armor/clothing they are wearing I think are making them look much more devolved otherwise than they are. They've been persecuted by the other clans until this rallying to fight the humans, so they've fashioned what they van to protect themselves, but it almost all looks like it's melding into their flesh and I see it's confusing people still.


Anyway, the game has promise in its lore. It's also looking for feedback from its audience, so in that, there's hope to make things better by launch from all of you :) Keep giving them your feedback.

Alhazredd
25th Sep 2013, 20:43
http://legacyofkain.wikia.com/wiki/Vampire_hunter_cannoneers

I'll have to play through Sr2 again im currently going through BO2, thanks

BasiliskEye
25th Sep 2013, 20:44
So, SquareEnix kills off Dead Sun, then forces you to cobble together a shooter/moba out of the multiplayer mode that they were making you implement into said project into the first place, and crap it out as a stand alone game set after Raziel took his little water nap so nothing in it will have any impact on the series if the Kain series ever went anywhere after this; which it probably won't.

I am suppose to be excited by this?

I mean don't get me wrong I actually like this kind of game enough; I played the hell out of Super Monday Night Combat.
I just can't get my head around why this thing even exists, for how tangentially it is connected to legacy of Kain it could have just as easily been made into it's own IP and you would have had far fewer angry, and bitter old fans getting very upset.

The_Hylden
25th Sep 2013, 20:45
Alhazredd, I suggest you quit antagonizing other members. Reread the Terms of Use (http://forums.eu.square-enix.com/announcement.php?f=97&a=1) here if you need a refresher of what you just registered to uphold.

Le_Don
25th Sep 2013, 20:46
Moreover, I praise the choice of the genre. There probably isn’t better option to attract new players and softly introduce them into the series and lore. And if it becomes successful, we, the old fans of the series will probably get a new single player story-cantered game! SO LETS FRIGGIN SUPPORT IT!!!
Sorry, but no! Not for this reason. I might support this game, because it could be good for itself, but I won't support it as a LoK-fan. I'm interested in a solo experience with a great storyline and characters, but Nosgoth seems to be the very opposite of this and I don't see why I should support this game. If Nosgoth may get successfull, it might just make Nosgoth bigger and lead to a Nosgoth 2, but not into a new LoK. Where is the guarantee, that we indeed get what we want, when we support a whole different game? New players, who really enjoy this game (which is fine for them), will enjoy it as a multiplayer shooter, but not as a LoK. Either way promising a new LoK is a cheap trick to lure people into a game, in which they aren't simply interested. Please, separate how badly people want a new LoK and how they are interested in Nosgoth, otherwise it might bury the franchise completly.

That's what I'm not getting. It causes more trouble than anything else by making this game with the LoK theme, so why doing it? Look at the first reactions of the announcement trailer and that the votes and comments are disabled. People dislike this game for a reason. It's fine when the developers want to try something new and there are many great examples, how this can work out. But Nosgoth is not "something new", it seems to be the complete opposite of what LoK had been. It's a big call to the fans to accept it. The people you are aiming for are a whole different group.


Their proportions are right, the Turelim may have been specialised in telekenises, but that doesn't take away from the fact they were a huge and bulky clan in comparison to Dumahim, they were easily twice the size of a Dumahim when you saw them in SR, and even Turel himself before devolution was easily taller and bulkier than Dumah.
I would give you, that they are longer, but not bulkier and definitly not how they look in this game. Sorry, but I personally call it a misinterpretation. Yea, the Turelim are supposed to be the mightiest clan after the Razielim, but I don't asume it's just because of their muscle mass alone.

Le_Don
25th Sep 2013, 20:51
Sorry for doppelposting, but:


Why is that? Saying such things just asks to bring negativity to follow. I've never seen any "forum purges" by the staff at Eidos, now Square. Maybe you're thinking of another game company :p
Well, the same company who are disabling the votings and comments of their youtube-trailers.

Moesph
25th Sep 2013, 20:56
I would give you, that they are longer, but not bulkier and definitly not how they look in this game. Sorry, but I personally call it a misinterpretation. Yea, the Turelim are supposed to be the mightiest clan after the Razielim, but I don't asume it's just because of their muscle mass alone.
Dumahim: https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-VTY_CQ-AUxg/TIZ-TfsL0KI/AAAAAAAABsE/D0hzU6-Ux3U/s800/razielim13.JPG
Turelim: https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-yAWRCjBtq4I/TIahOEmkzFI/AAAAAAAAB1c/7zNYum51u0g/s800/the%2520lighthouse7.JPG

While yes they are lankier in some ways, they still retain a lot of bulk over the Dumahim.

Alhazredd
25th Sep 2013, 20:57
but why should the razielim ALL have wings when as far am I'm aware the only two vampires to have wings in the series were Janos Audron and Raziel?
and why would the razielim be fighting side by side with the clans that are at war with them?

Le_Don
25th Sep 2013, 21:04
@ Moesph

Dude, I know how they look like ;) - it still don't convince me, that the Tank is some form of a ancestor to the Turelim and not the Dumahim, because the Turelim just seem to be bulky to be proportional to their size, but not Hulk-like getting into the width. Especially when looking at Turel and Dumah.

But overall I would agree to disagree.

saintjiub
25th Sep 2013, 21:12
This looks really interesting. I've been looking for a decent competitive arena shooter for a long time now. I can't wait to play around with the movement system.

From the announcement trailer it looks as though it'd be really fun to play on big maps with a lot of vertical space to take full advantage of the vampires movement advantage. I guess you couldn't give any general time frames on when we can expect to get a better look at the maps?

Anyway, can't wait to hear more about Nosgoth. =]

Alhazredd
25th Sep 2013, 21:21
Alhazredd, I suggest you quit antagonizing other members. Reread the Terms of Use (http://forums.eu.square-enix.com/announcement.php?f=97&a=1) here if you need a refresher of what you just registered to uphold.

In what way am I antagonizing other members?

Driber
25th Sep 2013, 21:23
Alhazredd, please take it into PM if The Hylden's warning was not clear enough for you.


Sorry for doppelposting, but:


Well, the same company who are disabling the votings and comments of their youtube-trailers.

I've been on these forums well over a decade and during that time we have never done any "purges."

I have heard stories about other companies purging/deleting their forums, so I understand where your concern is coming from, but I can assure you that we do things differently around here.

LtGiuberia
25th Sep 2013, 21:25
So far the gameplay looks ok, but for the love of gaming. Make the game have some tactical stuff in it. I'm tired of every team game being a insta/run'gun deathmatch. Also since your thinking of making it into the eSports scene. May I advice you on adding a solo matchmaking, team matchmaking, a roster for teams to look for potential players, ELO/Rank/W/E. Also with the team pages perhaps add a page so people without teams can see what the teams that are recruiting are looking for. Also a calendar, and event maker on the team page.

nerothehero2
25th Sep 2013, 21:26
this is cool but i would love a hero mode that allows u to play as raziel and raziel

Alhazredd
25th Sep 2013, 21:28
Alhazredd, please take it into PM if The Hylden's warning was not clear enough for you.



I've been on these forums well over a decade and during that time we have never done any "purges."

I have heard stories about other companies purging/deleting their forums, so I understand where your concern is coming from, but I can assure you that we do things differently around here.

Take what into a PM? I'm just asking how I am supposedly antagonizing people

The_Hylden
25th Sep 2013, 21:33
but why should the razielim ALL have wings when as far am I'm aware the only two vampires to have wings in the series were Janos Audron and Raziel?
and why would the razielim be fighting side by side with the clans that are at war with them?


Raziel evolved the wings, then was executed. His clan would follow suit to his evolution soon afterward, as all the clans follow their masters involuntarily. Rahab's clan all became fish-like; Zephon's clan are all bug-like, Truelim's clan all grow giant ears and have advanced TK, etc., etc. This is happening a couple of hundred years after Raziel took a dive in the drink, so plenty of time for the wings to evolve in all of the Razielim.

They only reluctantly rally to fight a common enemy, once humans gain enough power in their numbers to actually pose a thread to all of the vampire, not just one clan. After that threat is taken care of, I am sure the Razlielim have no allusions of being welcomed back into the fold.



In what way am I antagonizing other members?

Accusing Germaximus who has a positive opinion of being a Square employee, telling them to be quiet in voicing said opinions. Yeah, I really need to explain it to you?

Driber
25th Sep 2013, 21:34
Take what into a PM? I'm just asking how I am supposedly antagonizing people

Questions/comments about moderator actions should be directed to the moderator in question via PM, not on the public board. Forum rule #16.

Moesph
25th Sep 2013, 21:36
this is cool but i would love a hero mode that allows u to play as raziel and raziel
On top of that, a hero mode that allows you to play as ancient vs hylden.

Alhazredd
25th Sep 2013, 21:36
Raziel evolved the wings, then was executed. His clan would follow suit to his evolution soon afterward, as all the clans follow their masters involuntarily. Rahab's clan all became fish-like; Zephon's clan are all bug-like, Truelim's clan all grow giant ears and have advanced TK, etc., etc. This is happening a couple of hundred years after Raziel took a dive in the drink, so plenty of time for the wings to evolve in all of the Razielim.


They only reluctantly rally to fight a common enemy, once humans gain enough power in their numbers to actually pose a thread to all of the vampire, not just one clan. After that threat is taken care of, I am sure the Razlielim have no allusions of being welcomed back into the fold.




Accusing Germaximus who has a positive opinion of being a Square employee, telling them to be quiet in voicing said opinions. Yeah, I really need to explain it to you?

but i in no way told him to be quiet or to stop voicing his opinion
and doesnt it take like a thousand+ years for the evolution to take place?

BasiliskEye
25th Sep 2013, 21:39
one, two, skip a few.
It wouldn't be the largest lore hole in this series.

Le_Don
25th Sep 2013, 21:42
I have heard stories about other companies purging/deleting their forums, so I understand where your concern is coming from
Well, that's not what I meant. I was talking about the Nosgoth trailer with the disabled comments and votings. I understand, that not you or someone else of this forum disabled them, but it's sending a message to the audience, that negative feedback is not welcome and it contradicts heavily to what Sarah Hebbler is saying to expect a lot of interaction with the community. It give it a dishonest feel.

Abolist
25th Sep 2013, 21:43
GAH! The lore fits this time admin.... I'm jus watching and waiting at this point. 1 bummer though, for me anyhow is regardless of what happens in the game we all already know who the winner eventually is :p

Moesph
25th Sep 2013, 21:46
square enix employee pls go
Yea.

Also the point of devolution from human looking to monsters happened in a 500 year period, this is 200 years in, when exactly they started to gain monstrous proportions was never revealed, giving room for interpretation.

Blackykun
25th Sep 2013, 21:46
one, two, skip a few.
It wouldn't be the largest lore hole in this series.

Lets try to avoid making so many holes that there are more of those then actual lore...

Driber
25th Sep 2013, 21:47
Well, that's not what I meant. I was talking about the Nosgoth trailer with the disabled comments and votings. I understand, that not you or someone else of this forum disabled them, but it's sending a message to the audience, that negative feedback is not welcome and it contradicts heavily to what Sarah Hebbler is saying to expect a lot of interaction with the community. It give it a dishonest feel.

Not to me. There are plenty of places to feedback; YT is just a mere one website. And reading the CM's explanation...

“What with four social media channels on which to interact with the community plus several independent forums (like this one), there are only so many places one CM can be!

Additionally, I (as in George/Monkeythumbz – feel free to attribute the sentiment to me personally) didn't want a wall of negativity to be the first thing people who are new to the game saw when they watched the video on our YouTube channel. I'd much rather people be allowed to come to their own conclusions about the game rather than have their opinions coloured in advance. After all, there are loads of places for people to vent about the game or to express their displeasure to us directly on multiple forums and even our own official forum, Facebook page and Twitter feed. I hope you understand.”

...I totally get why it's disabled and don't think it's anything to worry about. YT isn't exactly renowned for it's fair criticism, if you know what I mean :whistle:

Alhazredd
25th Sep 2013, 21:53
Also the point of devolution from human looking to monsters happened in a 500 year period, this is 200 years in, when exactly they started to gain monstrous proportions was never revealed, giving room for interpretation.
fair enough

Eckzein
25th Sep 2013, 21:57
Completely ignorant of the lore of LoK. Have played the pen and paper RPG Vampire: The Masquerade so take that for what its worth. Anyway, its beta, things can change. So vampires are strictly melee? No minor psionics or vampiric spells? If humans are waging a war against vampires than where's my peasant conscript class, I want to be a schmuck with a pitchfork.
Lets make vampires stronger so the game should have a 2:1 human vs vampire ratio. FPS class warfare has been done before, many many times, find a way to tap into the inherent strengths of the vampire lore to define the gaming experience rather than playing it safe and making a slightly different multi-player FPS experience.
The makings of a decent game are in here, now pull the dam thing in a worthwhile direction.

Moesph
25th Sep 2013, 22:06
If humans are waging a war against vampires than where's my peasant conscript class, I want to be a schmuck with a pitchfork.
I would so love that, but it would only work in an earlier timeline, what we have now is humans recently freed from slavery in a world with no sunlight, a pitchfork would not be in any peasants arsenal. Perhaps a regular fork?

Le_Don
25th Sep 2013, 22:07
...I totally get why it's disabled and don't think it's anything to worry about. YT isn't exactly renowned for it's fair criticism, if you know what I mean :whistle:
I do agree on that, but I still have the feeling, it is the honest form of feedback you can get and if the people hate it and vote your videos down, it happens for a reason. Not all videos on Youtube are getting such a negative feedback and I'm not talking about CoD, Battlefield or some other overhyped crap.

I'm not sure if I would agree with George, as the new users might not see a wall of hatred, but they see the disabled votes and comments and I think they are smart enough to imagine why. It is sending a negative message for itself.

The_Hylden
25th Sep 2013, 22:14
Yeah, they would follow their clan leader, as he would probably follow Kain in when they evolved, which Raziel stated was only "some years after the master." They do start accelerating in their evolution and later devolution with the herald of Raziel's wings, also.

Pmed you, Alhazredd. No further comments here regarding your warning will be tolerated. Let's just post about the game, thanks.

Clockwurq
25th Sep 2013, 22:21
Im super excited actually. When rumors went around the new LoK game being a game for mobiles, I think I cried a little. But this actually looks really cool. And I'm just so glad that they're rekindling the series in the first place! And, I'm seeing this game as a warm up for a new generation of LoK games. From what I have read so far, it seems like the developers do know the lore, and if anything, they should be scared ****less if they mess it up. However, I AM REALLY looking forward to this and to be honest, making a multiplayer game seems like a good idea because of the community. Now, we have a game and a new platform in which we can communicate and interact. NOW IF YOU LET ME IN ON THE CLOSED BETA, I'll be even more exicted. Good luck, developers! :thumb:

Driber
25th Sep 2013, 22:31
I do agree on that, but I still have the feeling, it is the honest form of feedback you can get and if the people hate it and vote your videos down, it happens for a reason. Not all videos on Youtube are getting such a negative feedback and I'm not talking about CoD, Battlefield or some other overhyped crap.

I strongly disagree that YT provides an "honest form of feedback"

YT is filled with trolls, haters, and downright vulgar people. You might as well ask 4chan for feedback :whistle:

No, not *all* videos, but certainly a lot, if not most, of them. Those that I view, anyway.

Also, people even take to YT just to bash videos or downvote them out of spite or anger because they don't get what they want, so that also adds to a very skewed feedback to videos.


I'm not sure if I would agree with George, as the new users might not see a wall of hatred, but they see the disabled votes and comments and I think they are smart enough to imagine why. It is sending a negative message for itself.

Well that's speculation on behalf of other people. I'm not sure if the majority of people are really that cynical.

As for the negative message it's supposedly sending - there are links in the video description to a number of other places where people can feedback (this forum being one of them) so it's not like feedback is being shunned or anything.

LordMortanius
25th Sep 2013, 22:57
Exactly this is just the first step in reviving the franchise. If they made an old style LoK game it would probably tank because there arent many gamers looking for a deep narrative experience.

While I'm not opposed to trying something new, I can't say I agree with this method of thinking or that of the post you quoted. I feel that it is what has poisoned the industry to begin with. Scraping ideas that could potentially innovative a genre and be different to cater to the 'me too' market of casual gamers is a big reason why we have no real variety anymore. Sitting back and just accepting it is equally detrimental as it shows companies we have no standards. I appreciate that they want to revitalize the series but disenfranchising your core fanbase is NEVER the way to go. Ask Capcom...

BUT

On a more positive note, hopefully after the initial negative feedback Psyonix and Square will be professional about this, because I really want to support this endeavor. I will withhold my judgement until I see more about the game and how these companies behave.

Le_Don
25th Sep 2013, 23:00
No, not *all* videos, but certainly a lot, if not most, of them. Those that I view, anyway.
Well, and I strongly disagree on that. Yes, I would never try to make a serious discussion in Youtube, but most of the videos I watch have a positive voting. Hell, there are even some DmC trailers, which have more positives votes than negative. And most important, if a video has a lot of negative responses, I might not share their opinion, but I understand where and why the feedback is coming from and that there is a reason. People are not only trolling and in fact, most of the top comments aren't troll-comments at all. Maybe people are taking Youtube just for bashing, but the important question ist why they are bashing and maybe this whole Nosgoth-concept wasn't a good idea at all.


Well that's speculation on behalf of other people. I'm not sure if the majority of people are really that cynical.
Please, give my one logical explanation, why a company is disabling the votes and comments of their announcement videos, if not because of negative responses. It has nothing to to with being cynical.

I give you that plot spoilers might be a good reason to deactivate comments (not votings), but I guess we can exclude them for the announcement trailer.

Blackykun
25th Sep 2013, 23:01
I strongly disagree that YT provides an "honest form of feedback"

YT is filled with trolls, haters, and downright vulgar people. You might as well ask 4chan for feedback :whistle:

No, not *all* videos, but certainly a lot, if not most, of them. Those that I view, anyway.

Also, people even take to YT just to bash videos or downvote them out of spite or anger because they don't get what they want, so that also adds to a very skewed feedback to videos.



Well that's speculation on behalf of other people. I'm not sure if the majority of people are really that cynical.

As for the negative message it's supposedly sending - there are links in the video description to a number of other places where people can feedback (this forum being one of them) so it's not like feedback is being shunned or anything.

Brosepharius no insult but if someone wants to ***** about something they will do it be it 4chan, youtube, tumblr, reviews, videogame journalists, forums or here, they will do it whether you like it or not, and *****ing is quite an honest form of feedback. Not allowing people to express their opinions on the more public forums (as in places to talk) is a shot in the foot if you seriously believe the designing team cares about the fans. Whom ARE the trolls, haters, and vulgar people. Like how they're also the honest people, the snivelling sycophants, the completely knowledgeable people, the mistaken, the drones, the scum and all these people who will spend money on the game eventually. Or wont.

What's the purpose anyway? You want only positive feedback, or absolutely no negative feedback, or for negative feedback to not become public opinions? How is this in any way communication? Or honest.

Oh for gods sake how many companies that think themselves invulnerable has to crash before people get the message...

****, actually, whats the ultimate purpose of the game? To satisfy customers, rake in money screw the fans or to create a piece of art?

AkiraEverhate
25th Sep 2013, 23:09
Initial thoughts? Not what I wanted but I will give it my all just to get some cash flowing for your company. You are giving my most favorite franchise attention and that is good enough for me. However as I have said before, I better get a single player story driven game in the next few years. In addition, Simon Templeman better have an extensive role in this game, even if he is saying in Kain's Voice "Triple Kill".

Eckzein
25th Sep 2013, 23:12
While I'm not opposed to trying something new, I can't say I agree with this method of thinking or that of the post you quoted. I feel that it is what has poisoned the industry to begin with. Scraping ideas that could potentially innovative a genre and be different to cater to the 'me too' market of casual gamers is a big reason why we have no real variety anymore. Sitting back and just accepting it is equally detrimental as it shows companies we have no standards. I appreciate that they want to revitalize the series but disenfranchising your core fanbase is NEVER the way to go. Ask Capcom...

BUT

On a more positive note, hopefully after the initial negative feedback Psyonix and Square will be professional about this, because I really want to support this endeavor. I will withhold my judgement until I see more about the game and how these companies behave.

You sir are a scholar and a gentleman.

Le_Don
25th Sep 2013, 23:16
@ Blackykun:

Totally agreeing on this and one major question:


Brosepharius no insult but if someone wants to ***** about something they will do it be it 4chan, youtube, tumblr, reviews, videogame journalists, forums or here, they will do it whether you like it or not, and *****ing is quite an honest form of feedback.
Let's take for example a "troll" who is writing something like "Well, this is ****" - how would that be a dishonest opinion? It isn't very nice, but if this is the way they are feeling like, then it is and maybe - just maybe - there are right. Please take the negative responses serious and don't asume there are only some kiddos trolling around or something like that.

Driber
25th Sep 2013, 23:27
Well, and I strongly disagree on that. Yes, I would never try to make a serious discussion in Youtube, but most of the videos I watch have a positive voting. Hell, there are even some DmC trailers, which have more positives votes than negative.

We must be used to seeing different videos then.


People are not only trolling

I never claimed that.


and in fact, most of the top comments aren't troll-comments at all.

Again, we must be used to seeing different videos then. I've seen plenty of troll-like top comments.


Maybe people are taking Youtube just for bashing, but the important question ist why they are bashing and maybe this whole Nosgoth-concept wasn't a good idea at all.

People leave their initial reaction in their YT comments/votes. Many don't even finish watching a video before downvoting it.

Later on people calm down, see things from a different POV and even get on board. We've seen exactly this happen during the past months with Nosgoth. But the comments and votes stay the same on the video page, so in that regard, it's still a very skewed type of feedback.


Please, give my one logical explanation, why a company is disabling the votes and comments of their announcement videos, if not because of negative responses.

When did I say it wasn't? :scratch:


Brosepharius no insult but if someone wants to ***** about something they will do it be it 4chan, youtube, tumblr, reviews, videogame journalists, forums or here, they will do it whether you like it or not, and *****ing is quite an honest form of feedback. Not allowing people to express their opinions on the more public forums (as in places to talk) is a shot in the foot if you seriously believe the designing team cares about the fans. Whom ARE the trolls, haters, and vulgar people. Like how they're also the honest people, the snivelling sycophants, the completely knowledgeable people, the mistaken, the drones, the scum and all these people who will spend money on the game eventually. Or wont.

What's the purpose anyway? You want only positive feedback, or absolutely no negative feedback, or for negative feedback to not become public opinions? How is this in any way communication? Or honest.

Oh for gods sake how many companies that think themselves invulnerable has to crash before people get the message...

****, actually, whats the ultimate purpose of the game? To satisfy customers, rake in money screw the fans or to create a piece of art?

Sorry but I have no idea what you're on about or what your point is.

Blackykun
25th Sep 2013, 23:28
Then you are doomed.

Le_Don
25th Sep 2013, 23:43
I never claimed that.
Didn't claimed, that you claimed that ;).


People leave their initial reaction in their YT comments/votes. Many don't even finish watching a video before downvoting it.
Now that's speculating on your side, if *many* don't watch the video until the end and if their reactions are only initial.


When did I say it wasn't? :scratch:
Then you have to explain how it's suppose to be cynical to think the way I described earlier.

Driber
25th Sep 2013, 23:58
Didn't claimed, that you claimed that ;).

Nor I that you claimed that. Just making things clear ;)


Now that's speculating on your side, if *many* don't watch the video until the end and if their reactions are only initial.

I wasn't speculating on what *would* happen if comments were allowed; I was talking about experiences in general.


Then you have to explain how it's suppose to be cynical to think the way I described earlier.

I forgot what you said. No time to backread either. Let's drop it, it was probably just a miscommunication by the looks of it anyway :)

Vampmaster
26th Sep 2013, 00:02
Then you are doomed.

Nobody's censoring anyone. This place and plenty of other places are already full of negative feedback that hasn't and probably won't be deleted. SE just want to have one place where people who've never heard of the series can make their minds up without being influenced by knee-jerk reactions from people who can't express their opinion without sounding like a raving lunatic.

I want a single player continuation too, but I don't see this game as a threat to the games I've already enjoyed because it's not trying to claim events in those games happened any differently than I remember them.

Nobody (not even Mama Robotnik) said that a full single player continuation was cancelled in order to make this one.

Abolist
26th Sep 2013, 00:41
It took 1 day for this forum to de-evolve into a heated he said she said ( the worse kind of online argument as everyone can clearly see who said what) and to top it off forum mods are getting in on it :/

MoebiusTimeStreamer
26th Sep 2013, 00:42
I do hope we get to fight at the pillars that would be awesome.

GabrielBelmont
26th Sep 2013, 00:45
Greetings, long time Legacy of Kain fan here, been a fan since the first Blood Omen game on the PS1. Legacy of Kain has always been one of my favorite game series, Kain being my favorite vampire of all time.

When I first heard about "War for Nosgoth", I was rather upset. I didn't want a game like League of Legends/DoTA2, but as time passed, it made sense to me. You could have many made up heroes/villains to play as, from different Vampire/Hylden/human faction, all fighting one another. I even warmed up to the idea of playing a game like that.

Instead, what we get is a 3rd person PvP game. Now, I'm not saying this is bad, I'm just saying it's not going to work. War of the Roses, a game on Steam, has no one playing it. I don't know if there will be more characters added to the game, but trying to balance something like this will be flat out difficult. From the gameplay that's been shown so far, I figure this comes out as a Rock/Paper/Scissors type game. The humans are ranged, while the Vampires are melee. The humans can just snipe at the Vampires, but the flying Vampire counters the sniping. When a Vampire gets up close, the human will lose. When the Vampire is far away, the human will win.

People don't want an electronic version of Rock/Paper/Scissors. I've played World of Warcraft, and that's what PvP in that game is (except when you get outnumbered, then you just plain lose). People will take to the forums and cry when they get beaten by their counter and demand said counter be nerfed. And when the entire game is based on Rock/Paper/Scissors, that's alot of cries for nerfing. Granted, yes, this is only the start, maybe more classes will be added or more explained, these are just my initial thoughts.

Now, there's something else I want to address. When I signed up for the beta, I noticed the questions about eSports. I take it that Nosgoth is Square Enix's attempt to enter the wide world of eSports. Again, as my previous point states, if you want to do something like that, you have to have a game that ISN'T Rock/Paper/Scissors. It's not exciting, it's rather dull. If Square Enix wanted to take the steps into eSports, why didn't they just make a MOBA with Final Fantasy characters? It would have made them a TON of money, and everyone is doing it, including Blizzard.

Finally... We're Legacy of Kain fans. The game series was an epic story with well-developed characters and a vast universe filled with adventure. You can't expect us to just sit back after all this time and accept this game. We want more story, it's why we love Legacy of Kain. Instead, this is what we get. Now, this wouldn't be so bad, but Tomb Raider was given a whole new game! Hitman was given a whole new game! Thief is getting a whole new game! Every former Eidos/Crystal Dynamic series is getting a full, retail release, but Legacy of Kain fans are getting nothing but a Player versus Player game that Square Enix seems to want for eSports. Why was a heavily-story based game singled out and made into something it was never supposed to be? Even something as simple as an HD version or a remake of Blood Omen would have been welcome.

We have a very long history of being jerked around. I will never forget, shortly after Legacy of Kain: Defiance, Eidos said if their latest Tomb Raider game (I forgot which one it was..) sold well, they would give us another Legacy of Kain game. The Tomb Raider game didn't sell well, so they made another Tomb Raider, which again, didn't sell, so they made another... The last time we got anything Kain related was an add-on for a Tomb Raider game, which just re-used old voice overs from the LoK games.

That's my initial reaction to Nosgoth. I see no reason why Legacy of Kain fans yet again have to wait longer for a new story-driven game. I wish you luck, but sadly, it's not going to work since this is not the kind of game that will make it in the world of eSports. It would have been better off as a MOBA.

Lord_Aevum
26th Sep 2013, 00:45
It took 1 day for this forum to de-evolve into a heated he said she said ( the worse kind of online argument as everyone can clearly see who said what) and to top it off forum mods are getting in on it :/

"Know this – about you and this purgatory from which you long to escape... you're merely at the threshold." :p

Abolist
26th Sep 2013, 00:56
Greetings, long time Legacy of Kain fan here, been a fan since the first Blood Omen game on the PS1. Legacy of Kain has always been one of my favorite game series, Kain being my favorite vampire of all time.

When I first heard about "War for Nosgoth", I was rather upset. I didn't want a game like League of Legends/DoTA2, but as time passed, it made sense to me. You could have many made up heroes/villains to play as, from different Vampire/Hylden/human faction, all fighting one another. I even warmed up to the idea of playing a game like that.

Instead, what we get is a 3rd person PvP game. Now, I'm not saying this is bad, I'm just saying it's not going to work. War of the Roses, a game on Steam, has no one playing it. I don't know if there will be more characters added to the game, but trying to balance something like this will be flat out difficult. From the gameplay that's been shown so far, I figure this comes out as a Rock/Paper/Scissors type game. The humans are ranged, while the Vampires are melee. The humans can just snipe at the Vampires, but the flying Vampire counters the sniping. When a Vampire gets up close, the human will lose. When the Vampire is far away, the human will win.

People don't want an electronic version of Rock/Paper/Scissors. I've played World of Warcraft, and that's what PvP in that game is (except when you get outnumbered, then you just plain lose). People will take to the forums and cry when they get beaten by their counter and demand said counter be nerfed. And when the entire game is based on Rock/Paper/Scissors, that's alot of cries for nerfing. Granted, yes, this is only the start, maybe more classes will be added or more explained, these are just my initial thoughts.

Now, there's something else I want to address. When I signed up for the beta, I noticed the questions about eSports. I take it that Nosgoth is Square Enix's attempt to enter the wide world of eSports. Again, as my previous point states, if you want to do something like that, you have to have a game that ISN'T Rock/Paper/Scissors. It's not exciting, it's rather dull. If Square Enix wanted to take the steps into eSports, why didn't they just make a MOBA with Final Fantasy characters? It would have made them a TON of money, and everyone is doing it, including Blizzard.

Finally... We're Legacy of Kain fans. The game series was an epic story with well-developed characters and a vast universe filled with adventure. You can't expect us to just sit back after all this time and accept this game. We want more story, it's why we love Legacy of Kain. Instead, this is what we get. Now, this wouldn't be so bad, but Tomb Raider was given a whole new game! Hitman was given a whole new game! Thief is getting a whole new game! Every former Eidos/Crystal Dynamic series is getting a full, retail release, but Legacy of Kain fans are getting nothing but a Player versus Player game that Square Enix seems to want for eSports. Why was a heavily-story based game singled out and made into something it was never supposed to be? Even something as simple as an HD version or a remake of Blood Omen would have been welcome.

We have a very long history of being jerked around. I will never forget, shortly after Legacy of Kain: Defiance, Eidos said if their latest Tomb Raider game (I forgot which one it was..) sold well, they would give us another Legacy of Kain game. The Tomb Raider game didn't sell well, so they made another Tomb Raider, which again, didn't sell, so they made another... The last time we got anything Kain related was an add-on for a Tomb Raider game, which just re-used old voice overs from the LoK games.

That's my initial reaction to Nosgoth. I see no reason why Legacy of Kain fans yet again have to wait longer for a new story-driven game. I wish you luck, but sadly, it's not going to work since this is not the kind of game that will make it in the world of eSports. It would have been better off as a MOBA.

Holy shoot. A Final Fantasy MOBA with the characters and various iconic monsters/summons. They would have to hire additional people to cram the money into there vaults! I've said it before, the 1st console to bring a successful MOBA in will gain a very dominate stand on the console war. Legend has it that Nintendo is considering making a jump on it to catch there console up with the other two. Like it or hate it millions and millions of people play MOBAs daily, its only a matter of time before somebody drops out of the graphics race and builds 1.

qcKeKe2
26th Sep 2013, 00:57
Agree

TheIrtar
26th Sep 2013, 01:22
Initial thoughts:

YES! A new Legacy of Kai-... wait, what? What's going on?

WHERE IS MY CLOSURE!?!

MasterShuriko
26th Sep 2013, 01:26
Initial thoughts:

YES! A new Legacy of Kai-... wait, what? What's going on?

WHERE IS MY CLOSURE!?!

They are teasing us!
They know we want it!
We NEED IT!

>.> Looks out the window and remembers the last thing Kain said
*
Given the choice, whether to rule a corrupt and failing empire; or to challenge the fates for another throw - a better throw - against one's destiny... what was a king to do? But does one even truly have a choice? One can only match, move by move, the machinations of fate... and thus defy the tyrannous stars.

YOU CANT END IT LIKE THIS!
WE WANT CLOSURE! OR A BAD ASSED COMEBACK!

Alhazredd
26th Sep 2013, 01:34
Initial thoughts:

YES! A new Legacy of Kai-... wait, what? What's going on?

WHERE IS MY CLOSURE!?!

spoiler alert, we'll never get it

MasterShuriko
26th Sep 2013, 02:21
Never say never!;)

ScottAstraeus
26th Sep 2013, 03:39
Wow. The mods must all have the patience of saints. I would have resigned and secluded myself to a small closet for at least a month if I had to approach some of the things I just read in a professional manner.

Anyway, to echo a few other users: I fell in love with the LoK series because of its story. The characters were all well developed, three dimensional beings. Kain was a total badass without falling prey to the trappings of total tropedom; he had fears and reacted realistically (or as realistically as a vampire could react) to everything he had to deal with. Raziel's revenge storyline also managed to dodge its cliches with equal grace.

From what we've been shown so far, the game is lacking in the story department. I don't know if a detailed plot will eventually unfold or not but if old fans are expected to support this endeavor a story will need to be added somehow. In my gaming experience outside of LoK, online games have always failed to include compelling fiction. That includes Star Wars: The Old Republic, which - regardless of what others of you might say about gameplay, etc - harkened back to KotOR's roleplaying elements such as personal character growth. But knowing that thousands of other people were doing the same quests as my character and thousands of other people were being recruited as the Emperor's Wrath detracted from the whole experience and I stopped playing despite the switch to F2P. That said, I understand how daunting adding a good story could be in this case.

-I'm not going to nitpick about little details because I'm sure the team did its research and made informed and thoughtful decisions. The end.

-The visuals look great (probably not on my system, but so be it).

In all honesty:
-I am disappointed this isn't going to be a single-player followup to the other games.
-I signed up for the beta because I'm curious as to how all this going to turn out.
-Under any other name, I wouldn't have given Nosgoth a second look because this type of thing just isn't my genre. That's not to say it doesn't look like a good game, it's just not the kind of thing I usually play.

"Fate promises more twists before this drama unfolds completely." How apt, Kain. You didn't know how meta that statement really was.

Swagraven
26th Sep 2013, 04:29
-Under any other name, I wouldn't have given Nosgoth a second look because this type of thing just isn't my genre. That's not to say it doesn't look like a good game, it's just not the kind of thing I usually play.

Me neither, but this might actually be a good thing for both LoK and a few of it's fans. Between Nosgoth and Elderscrolls Online I'm suddenly going to have to get used to playing with other people instead of all alone.

fireAmbulance
26th Sep 2013, 04:55
You might as well ask 4chan for feedback :whistle:

4chan's community actually holds LoK in a very high regard, so to be perfectly honest, I think asking their opinion wouldn't be the worst thing you could do.

But that aside, I agree with the other posters here, it's kind of weird to see a dev saying how much they want their user base to impact the game, but then not enable comments or ratings on Youtube. I understand that you don't want people to face a "wall of negativity", but I also think it's important to be able to face EVERYONE'S opinion, and not just the positive ones.

ScottAstraeus
26th Sep 2013, 05:01
Me neither, but this might actually be a good thing for both LoK and a few of it's fans. Between Nosgoth and Elderscrolls Online I'm suddenly going to have to get used to playing with other people instead of all alone.

I have actually been scared away from playing with people (or rather AGAINST people) after a recent encounter with a troll on Tekken Revolution. I didn't expect to find a wealth of good sportsmanship in a fighting game community but live and learn. If invited to the beta it'll be my only lapse in an indefinite break from online play for me.

Nosgoth_Pls
26th Sep 2013, 06:55
This is happening a couple of hundred years after Raziel took a dive in the drink, so plenty of time for the wings to evolve in all of the Razielim.

But that's wrong, you tool. It was stated NUMEROUS times in the games themselves that Raziel was the LAST of his kind, that Kain had them ALL hunted down and killed and that Raziel was the ONLY surviving member of his clan. YES, some of them might've lived long enough to sprout wings, but THEY DID NOT LIVE TO ENJOY IT. You don't get to retcon the genocide/fratricide of AN ENTIRE GODDAMN CLAN just because "lol we want this in our game".

If you want to shoehorn the lore of the games into some half-assed PvP abomination that the LoK community NEVER asked for, nor genuinely want (the only reason old fans of the series are even remotely interested is because of the LoK name plastered onto this game, or because of naivity/ignorance), at LEAST have the common sense to make sure you GET THE LORE RIGHT. And when you're faced with fans pointing out the fact that you got it WRONG, at least have the balls to admit that you were wrong and that you should do some revisions. The game is in "pre-alpha", so you have no excuse not to.

And don't give me the excuse that the lore in the games is chaotic, and that some would-be timestreamer decided to mess around with time. As shown in the games, it would require a paradox of ENORMOUS proportions to change the flow of time, by a being with TRUE FREE WILL, of which ONE existed; Raziel (ALSO explained in the games). And since he is, as the cliffhanger ending of Defiance showed, currently inhabiting the goddamn Soul Reaver, I find it hard to believe he somehow managed to do that (actually, the Adventures of Raziel the Sword would make for a better game than Nosgoth).

Furthermore, as briefly mentioned earlier, the LoK community could do just fine without the PvP shenanigans of this game. The Legacy of Kain series' appeal was the deep story, the lore and not to mention voice acting. You CAN NOT get this in a fast-paced, team/class based PvP arena game. "B-but we'll make nice stories about everything that the player can read somewhere!", you might say. NO. The point would be gone if the lore of the game isn't actually IN THE GAME, wouldn't it? "We'll include nifty biographies about each of the classes". Okay, you do that. Make some biographies with the depth of a dried-up pond, compared to the OCEAN of lore in the other games. A lot of people probably wouldn't even end up READING the damn things, anyway, other than whatever stats you MIGHT POSSIBLY include at the very top.

Give the fans the game they have been wanting for a decade. I guarantee that everyone would be happier, and you could actually sell a game instead of "our game is F2P and definitely not P2W, but you can buy a bunch of cool skins! Hey guys, this looks like Kain, and here's Raziel and Vorador!"


tl;dr - No. Read it all.

__________________________________

Putting the NO in Nosgoth.

Alhazredd
26th Sep 2013, 07:03
But that's wrong, you tool. It was stated NUMEROUS times in the games themselves that Raziel was the LAST of his kind, that Kain had them ALL hunted down and killed and that Raziel was the ONLY surviving member of his clan. YES, some of them might've lived long enough to sprout wings, but THEY DID NOT LIVE TO ENJOY IT. You don't get to retcon the genocide/fratricide of AN ENTIRE GODDAMN CLAN just because "lol we want this in our game".

If you want to shoehorn the lore of the games into some half-assed PvP abomination that the LoK community NEVER asked for, nor genuinely want (the only reason old fans of the series are even remotely interested is because of the LoK name plastered onto this game, or because of naivity/ignorance), at LEAST have the common sense to make sure you GET THE LORE RIGHT. And when you're faced with fans pointing out the fact that you got it WRONG, at least have the balls to admit that you were wrong and that you should do some revisions. The game is in "pre-alpha", so you have no excuse not to.

And don't give me the excuse that the lore in the games is chaotic, and that some would-be timestreamer decided to mess around with time. As shown in the games, it would require a paradox of ENORMOUS proportions to change the flow of time, by a being with TRUE FREE WILL, of which ONE existed; Raziel (ALSO explained in the games). And since he is, as the cliffhanger ending of Defiance showed, currently inhabiting the goddamn Soul Reaver, I find it hard to believe he somehow managed to do that (actually, the Adventures of Raziel the Sword would make for a better game than Nosgoth).

Furthermore, as briefly mentioned earlier, the LoK community could do just fine without the PvP shenanigans of this game. The Legacy of Kain series' appeal was the deep story, the lore and not to mention voice acting. You CAN NOT get this in a fast-paced, team/class based PvP arena game. "B-but we'll make nice stories about everything that the player can read somewhere!", you might say. NO. The point would be gone if the lore of the game isn't actually IN THE GAME, wouldn't it? "We'll include nifty biographies about each of the classes". Okay, you do that. Make some biographies with the depth of a dried-up pond, compared to the OCEAN of lore in the other games. A lot of people probably wouldn't even end up READING the damn things, anyway, other than whatever stats you MIGHT POSSIBLY include at the very top.

Give the fans the game they have been wanting for a decade. I guarantee that everyone would be happier, and you could actually sell a game instead of "our game is F2P and definitely not P2W, but you can buy a bunch of cool skins! Hey guys, this looks like Kain, and here's Raziel and Vorador!"


tl;dr - No. Read it all.

__________________________________

Putting the NO in Nosgoth.

I too would prefer an actual game over this, if this game flunks which it probably will then no one will make another LoK game, and if it succeeds that just means that they'll make not an ending to the LoK series like we've all wanted but a yearly release for the series with loads and loads of DLC and the sad thing is it'll just be another botched and bastardized shadow of what the game really was

WoeToTheConquered
26th Sep 2013, 07:16
This has the potential to do good...but it's not what I would have wanted. Like many, I've played them all. I think this needs to be handled very VERY carefully. It would have been more risky to jump into remaking Blood Omen: Legacy of Kain (the original), but this is extremely risky territory as well. This attempt to establish a new bit of lore in the grey area between Raziel's several century fall into the abyss and his resurrection as the first and only Reaver of Souls is fraught with peril.... The allure of the beyond-excellent canon story might attract all of the LoK veterans such as myself, but if this thing is an empty husk, ground will be lost, and likely permanently...for any newcomers to the LoK scene will not know what to expect, and running into a botched game will instantly drive them away from the franchise. Losing both the old and the new bloods--that is the risk here.

However...if this ends up being a justly done incarnation...then glory will be the reward. A little bit of life will be breathed back into Sony as a company. It's already a big risk in my eyes, since SOE just laid off a bunch of people quite recently....

Bottom line:

I hope to the high heavens that the entire Dev team has done some extensive research on the world of Nosgoth and have played the games themselves. This series should not be touched by the hands of the uninitiated, nor the ignorant....

Good luck, god speed, and listen to the hardcore fans.

Rynfear
26th Sep 2013, 07:47
But that's wrong, you tool. It was stated NUMEROUS times in the games themselves that Raziel was the LAST of his kind, that Kain had them ALL hunted down and killed and that Raziel was the ONLY surviving member of his clan. YES, some of them might've lived long enough to sprout wings, but THEY DID NOT LIVE TO ENJOY IT. You don't get to retcon the genocide/fratricide of AN ENTIRE GODDAMN CLAN just because "lol we want this in our game".

They don't retcon anything. Nowhere is it stated that Kain killed the Razielim right away. Yes Kain eventually does kill them all (or so HE says) but it doesn't happen in an instant. There's plenty of leeway to put them in.

Also, the dev team aren't the ones you should be mad at. They're just doing their job. If there's anyone you should rage at it's Square-Enix for cancelling all the single-player projects and greenlighting this in the first place. This game, however, is a thing now and there's nothing you can do to stop it.

The_Hylden
26th Sep 2013, 07:48
Nosgoth_Pls, congratulations on being the first here to receive and infraction. One more idiotic rant like that insulting me, or anyone else here, and you'll find yourself taking a time out from these boards.

You can state your opinions here, your criticisms, even express how upset you are over anything regarding this game, but personal attacks, flaming, swearing, slam posting of the company -- none of that will be tolerated here.

Terms of Use (http://forums.eu.square-enix.com/announcement.php?f=97&a=1) <-- read them. Abide by them. Or you won't be here.



One final time: this happens before Raziel wakes up from his torment.

the Razielim have centuries before they will be eradicated, if that is there fate.

Amy Hennig was asked what the fate of the Razielim was when SR2 was out. This is the only official word given by her:


Q: Kain says he destoryed what he created. Did he destory Raziels clan, or did
they die out like the ancients, being they are similiar?
A: This is currently unrevealed.

Source: http://nosgoth.yuku.com/sreply/50797/GLoK-Interviews-with-Amy-Hennig

All Interviews by her and the rest of the team over the years:

http://nosgoth.yuku.com/topic/4317/GLoK-Interviews-with-Amy-Hennig#.UkPmfhD4LW5



Daniel Cabuco on his site (http://www.dcabdesign.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=6) -- lead artist and art director of Defiance, writer of some of the dialogue, that he always thought that some of the Razielim survived even past when Raziel wakes up. So, sorry, it was never definitely stated. In fact, it was deliberately left open. All we have is Kain already goading Raziel on. Most likely, they did hunt most of them down, and that's what was happening here, hunting them down, subjugating them, etc., until the humans rose up. Once the human threat has been squashed, the Razielim are most assuredly back on the list for destruction by the other clans.


That's as in keeping with the lore as ever. And I didn't make the game, so addressing me like I wrote the back story is folly. I simply have been paying attention to the games, the interviews, and every facet of the games' stories for over a decade now to know what fits with the lore and what doesn't.

There are plenty of things to critique the game over, plenty of things to want changed. This isn't one of them.

BasiliskEye
26th Sep 2013, 07:55
In all honestly I would rather the series have just ended with a book then to have some soulless publisher forcing a developer to "leverage an IP" the company owns as cheaply as they can, using parts of the tattered unfinished corpse of a canceled proper game that was three years into development, left by a completely different developer.

Even giving myself time to ruminate on this development, and even understanding why it is being made, I can not feel anything but disappointment about the announcement of Nosgoth.
There is very, very little overlap between LoK fans, and arena game fans, the people that genuinely would be interested in this game have probably never even heard of, or care about Legacy of Kain. There is little positive brand recognition that can be used here.
The game literally exists only because unused assets for a mandated multiplayer mode that was going to be forced into LoK: Dead Sun were just floating around, and someone that comes into work each day in a nice expensive suit that has not personally played a videogame since 1987 said "how can we make some low risk money next quarter with our preexisting assets?"

God I am so bitter.

Alhazredd
26th Sep 2013, 08:04
In all honestly I would rather the series have just ended with a book then to have some soulless publisher forcing a developer to "leverage an IP" the company owns as cheaply as they can, using parts of the tattered unfinished corpse of a canceled proper game that was three years into development, left by a completely different developer.

Even giving myself time to ruminate on this development, and even understanding why it is being made, I can not feel anything but disappointment about the announcement of Nosgoth.
There is very, very little overlap between LoK fans, and arena game fans, the people that genuinely would be interested in this game have probably never even heard of, or care about Legacy of Kain. There is little positive brand recognition that can be used here.
The game literally exists only because unused assets for a mandated multiplayer mode that was going to be forced into LoK: Dead Sun were just floating around, and someone that comes into work each day in a nice expensive suit that has not personally played a videogame since 1987 said "how can we make some low risk money next quarter with our preexisting assets?"

God I am so bitter.

agreed

Rynfear
26th Sep 2013, 08:07
In all honestly I would rather the series have just ended with a book then to have some soulless publisher forcing a developer to "leverage an IP" the company owns as cheaply as they can, using parts of the tattered unfinished corpse of a canceled proper game that was three years into development, left by a completely different developer.

Even giving myself time to ruminate on this development, and even understanding why it is being made, I can not feel anything but disappointment about the announcement of Nosgoth.
There is very, very little overlap between LoK fans, and arena game fans, the people that genuinely would be interested in this game have probably never even heard of, or care about Legacy of Kain. There is little positive brand recognition that can be used here.
The game literally exists only because unused assets for a mandated multiplayer mode that was going to be forced into LoK: Dead Sun were just floating around, and someone that comes into work each day in a nice expensive suit that has not personally played a videogame since 1987 said "how can we make some low risk money next quarter with our preexisting assets?"

God I am so bitter.
Fun fact: the first Soul Reaver came into existence because a soulless publisher forced a developer to "leverage an IP" and apply the Legacy of Kain theme to a game called Shifter. The series we know came only as a result of multiple development problems, IP switches and forced content cutting due to time restraints.

So nothing new here. I fully expect lots of posts like this in the coming months, because people have a right to feel betrayed when a series they loved is forced into something thematically different that can't possibly support elaborate plot development (which was the biggest strong point the series had). I feel like the game itself will suffer as a result and I also feel like this was a very rash and very wrong decision on the publisher's part. These kinds of games have been done before, have been mediocre before, and no established fanbase will save you from its fall into obscurity.

But I'm willing to give it a chance. It looks completely forgettable, but it's an alpha and there's still a long way to go.

Limed00d
26th Sep 2013, 08:15
People will always be negative towards something new in a series. Usually things turn out great and all negative attitude will be diminished, mostly.

BasiliskEye
26th Sep 2013, 08:21
Fun fact: the first Soul Reaver came into existence because a soulless publisher forced a developer to "leverage an IP" and apply the Legacy of Kain theme to a game called Shifter. The series we know came only as a result of multiple development problems, IP switches and forced content cutting due to time restraints.

So nothing new here. I fully expect lots of posts like this in the coming months, because people have a right to feel betrayed when a series they loved is forced into something thematically different that can't possibly support elaborate plot development (which was the biggest strong point the series had). I feel like the game itself will suffer as a result and I also feel like this was a very rash and very wrong decision on the publisher's part. These kinds of games have been done before, have been mediocre before, and no established fanbase will save you from its fall into obscurity.

But I'm willing to give it a chance. It looks completely forgettable, but it's an alpha and there's still a long way to go.

Yes, I am well aware of Shifter and the original intended end to SR1.
But this situation is not much like the ones that forged the creation, and continuation of the Soulreaver series.

This is more like if that Tomb Raider reboot they put out had been canceled half way through production, then a year later a different developer put out an arena shooter called Croft War, that was just an expanded version of the canceled games multiplayer mode.
Actually that is still not a good enough analogy, because 1. story is vary rarely important in Tomb Raider, and 2. they still come out with a Tomb Raider game every couple years. LoK has been left dormant on a cliffhanger for a decade.

The Megaman Legends 3 project is a closer fit.
Over 10 years since the last game in it's series ended on a cliffhanger, next game unceremoniously canceled, year later a crappy cellphone game.

There is no foreseeable good for the future of an IP in this kind of scenario.
Hell, they didn't even put Legacy of Kain in the games title, because they knew right from the start people that actually knew what the significance of the word Nosgoth was were not going to be on board with this.

Rynfear
26th Sep 2013, 09:09
There is no foreseeable good for the future of an IP in this kind of scenario.

You can make all the comparisons you want, but there's a chance if this game pans out that Square will get renewed interest in the series and we'll finally get that one sequel we've been waiting for. I'll take that over nothing.

Alhazredd
26th Sep 2013, 09:22
You can make all the comparisons you want, but there's a chance if this game pans out that Square will get renewed interest in the series and we'll finally get that one sequel we've been waiting for. I'll take that over nothing.
why would you want the people who did this http://oi42.tinypic.com/s1qczb.jpg to be in charge of LoK, and no getting **** on a plate isnt better then starving if they cant make the game proper then it should be left where it has been for the past decade

Vampmaster
26th Sep 2013, 10:04
Yes, I am well aware of Shifter and the original intended end to SR1.
But this situation is not much like the ones that forged the creation, and continuation of the Soulreaver series.

This is more like if that Tomb Raider reboot they put out had been canceled half way through production, then a year later a different developer put out an arena shooter called Croft War, that was just an expanded version of the canceled games multiplayer mode.
Actually that is still not a good enough analogy, because 1. story is vary rarely important in Tomb Raider, and 2. they still come out with a Tomb Raider game every couple years. LoK has been left dormant on a cliffhanger for a decade.

The Megaman Legends 3 project is a closer fit.
Over 10 years since the last game in it's series ended on a cliffhanger, next game unceremoniously canceled, year later a crappy cellphone game.

There is no foreseeable good for the future of an IP in this kind of scenario.
Hell, they didn't even put Legacy of Kain in the games title, because they knew right from the start people that actually knew what the significance of the word Nosgoth was were not going to be on board with this.

What makes you so sure about the time frame? How do you know how long Dead Sun was in production before being cancelled or that SE haven't been working on new assets for Nosgoth for over a year afterwards?

Driber
26th Sep 2013, 10:05
It took 1 day for this forum to de-evolve into a heated he said she said ( the worse kind of online argument as everyone can clearly see who said what) and to top it off forum mods are getting in on it :/

There's nothing wrong with staff joining the discussions.

On our forums members are actually often saying that they appreciate that the staff is not so distant like on other forums out there and don't just come around when there are TOU violations to take care of.

And our Senior Nosgoth Mods (The Hylden and Umah Bloodomen) are LOK veterans who bring a lot of value in terms of lore knowledge. It would be a crime for them to shun the discussions :)

As for the heated debates - that's to be expected. Don't worry, things will calm down eventually.


Wow. The mods must all have the patience of saints. I would have resigned and secluded myself to a small closet for at least a month if I had to approach some of the things I just read in a professional manner.

Do not worry, we have been doing this for years :cool:


4chan's community actually holds LoK in a very high regard, so to be perfectly honest, I think asking their opinion wouldn't be the worst thing you could do.

Well I'm sure you know what I meant about 4chan's reputation.


But that aside, I agree with the other posters here, it's kind of weird to see a dev saying how much they want their user base to impact the game, but then not enable comments or ratings on Youtube. I understand that you don't want people to face a "wall of negativity", but I also think it's important to be able to face EVERYONE'S opinion, and not just the positive ones.

And they are... just not on YT.


People will always be negative towards something new in a series. Usually things turn out great and all negative attitude will be diminished, mostly.

Yes, that has been my experience with pretty much ever game launch I've witnessed.


why would you want the people who did this http://oi42.tinypic.com/s1qczb.jpg to be in charge of LoK, and no getting **** on a plate isnt better then starving if they cant make the game proper then it should be left where it has been for the past decade

Your analogy of a plate of whatsit (I assume that's what you tried to post?) is childish. Let's keep it reasonable, please.

And the "better a dead franchise than a game I don't like" is just plain selfish. There are plenty of people who are looking forward to playing this game. Who are you to deny them that?

As for the comparison to TR9, that doesn't work, either. The game was a massive success and blew some much needed fresh air into the series. It wasn't a perfect game, and I personally would also have liked to see more classic influences in it, but it was great to play nonetheless and I'm looking forward to seeing where the next ones will take Lara.

And that's coming from a fan since the classic games :cool:

Vampmaster
26th Sep 2013, 10:13
There is no foreseeable good for the future of an IP in this kind of scenario.

Haven't you realised, all the old fans showing up across the internet to talk about the series again and all the new fans asking questions about the series' lore is exactly the result that SE were hoping for and exactly what is required to show that there's enough interest for a proper continuation?

Le_Don
26th Sep 2013, 10:42
People will always be negative towards something new in a series. Usually things turn out great and all negative attitude will be diminished, mostly.
But the problem is, that Nosgoth is not just something new. It's the total opposite of it and you can't compare it with - well, let's say - DmC, Tomb Raider and so on, because these games itself fit to their series. Nosgoth is more like the Syndicate or XCom shooter and they didn't turned out great at all. EA even stated people weren't interested at all with the Syndicate brand, which was wrong - they weren't just interested in the shooter.

Please don't misinterpret the fans. They aren't angry just because Nosgoth is something new.



Haven't you realised, all the old fans showing up across the internet to talk about the series again and all the new fans asking questions about the series' lore is exactly the result that SE were hoping for and exactly what is required to show that there's enough interest for a proper continuation?
The funny thing is, you can give the old fans anything and they would come back. It's not a big accomplishment of Nosgoth.

Vampmaster
26th Sep 2013, 11:00
The funny thing is, you can give the old fans anything and they would come back. It's not a big accomplishment of Nosgoth.

Yes (at the very least to talk about the old games), but the people paying the bills have been completely out of touch with just how many fans there are. Now that fans are showing their presence again, the financers can re-evaluate whether it's worth the investment to make a true sequel.

Rynfear
26th Sep 2013, 11:10
why would you want the people who did this http://oi42.tinypic.com/s1qczb.jpg to be in charge of LoK, and no getting **** on a plate isnt better then starving if they cant make the game proper then it should be left where it has been for the past decade

Oh no, a bunch of downloadable content. LoK is doomed. Truly the lack of DLC is why we're all fans of it.

Square-Enix IS in charge of the franchise, regardless of what I want. And so far they're not breaking any canon with this game. So we'll see what there actually is on that plate.

Le_Don
26th Sep 2013, 11:23
Yes (at the very least to talk about the old games), but the people paying the bills have been completely out of touch with just how many fans there are. Now that fans are showing their presence again, the financers can re-evaluate whether it's worth the investment to make a true sequel.
But how exactly would you want to re-evaluate? By counting the forum members or the looking at the trailer views? Don't compare the demand on a new LoK with how well Nosgoth may turn out, because that is the big failure, I'm warning the whole time. Nosgoth is for a completely different target audience then LoK and Nosgoth may fail, because people do indeed hate it. It's the very same like Syndicate and XCom, which failed, not because people aren't interested in these brands anymore, but because they didn't want these games.

Vampmaster
26th Sep 2013, 11:34
But how exactly would you want to re-evaluate? By counting the forum members or the looking at the trailer views? Don't compare the demand on a new LoK with how well Nosgoth may turn out, because that is the big failure, I'm warning the whole time. Nosgoth is for a completely different target audience then LoK and Nosgoth may fail, because people do indeed hate it. It's the very same like Syndicate and XCom, which failed, not because people aren't interested in these brands anymore, but because they didn't want these games.

You're right that it is for a different target audience. One that won't judge it for not being like the previous games, but could easily decide to go and look them up. I'm not suggesting that SE evaluate the number of fans *solely* on the number of sales Nosgoth gets, but the number of people talking about it and the amount of press the series in general gets because of it.

EDIT: When I say "different from the previous games", I mean the different game play and lack of story. What lore I've seen so far does appear to be in line with the other games. I just think the look of the game needs some work.

Rexidus
26th Sep 2013, 12:20
Hello Nosgoth!

My initial thoughts are mostly positive. I'm glad that the world is being revived and I get the impression from the video that this team is at least attempting to do right by the IP regardless of the genre of game they're making. So I'm pretty stoked.

I've got a couple concerns that I suspect will let me down but I'll let the game attempt to win me over before I pass final judgement.

BasiliskEye
26th Sep 2013, 12:39
What makes you so sure about the time frame? How do you know how long Dead Sun was in production before being cancelled or that SE haven't been working on new assets for Nosgoth for over a year afterwards?

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=594576

Blackykun
26th Sep 2013, 13:12
Well I'm sure you know what I meant about 4chan's reputation.

Haha, what a darling. Are you aware of Enix's reputation?

Vampmaster
26th Sep 2013, 13:56
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=594576

Ah, yes. I must have missed the part didn't see the part where he was given a a full copy of the timeline/itinerary and expenditures. Seriously, that was just a best guess based on the information he had at the time.

Driber
26th Sep 2013, 14:05
But the problem is, that Nosgoth is not just something new. It's the total opposite of it and you can't compare it with - well, let's say - DmC, Tomb Raider and so on, because these games itself fit to their series. Nosgoth is more like the Syndicate or XCom shooter and they didn't turned out great at all. EA even stated people weren't interested at all with the Syndicate brand, which was wrong - they weren't just interested in the shooter.

Of course you can.

Let's take TR for example. Well known for its strong SP campaigns. Then there was a little game called Guardian of Light. A weak story consisting of just a few images flashing by. And the gameplay was totally different to that of a regular TR game and there was a strong MP aspect. Naturally disappointing to die-hard TR fans.

What happened? It was a fun game to play and a few years later the fans got another regular SP game with "normal" gameplay and a strong story.


Please don't misinterpret the fans. They aren't angry just because Nosgoth is something new.


The funny thing is, you can give the old fans anything and they would come back. It's not a big accomplishment of Nosgoth.

Guys, it would probably help these discussions a lot if you would spend less time trying to speak on behalf of "the fans" and more about your opinions,wishes, etc. :)


Haha, what a darling. Are you aware of Enix's reputation?

I know some people are quick to put labels on companies, yes. It makes me facepalm every time, TBQH.

But you're not comparing a videogame publisher with a troll website, are you?

Blackykun
26th Sep 2013, 14:13
Of course not, silly.

I'm comparing a company with a history with a website with a history.

By the way, I wouldn't throw around labels so easily.

Driber
26th Sep 2013, 14:22
I'm comparing a company with a history with a website with a history.

That's what I meant, yeah.

That's just silly. Apples and oranges.

MrMilky
26th Sep 2013, 14:29
what you have against people stating what the fans feel? What, everybody who're displeased are incorrect? Crazy? :)

Gihadist
26th Sep 2013, 14:32
But you're not comparing a videogame publisher with a troll website, are you?

Whoa there friend, hold your horses. I had to make an account just to say this. 4chan is by no mean a "troll website", its just that every user is anonymous and are free to outrightly speak their opinion without fear of backlash from the site's moderation, so unless you're weak of heart and can't bear with the fact that other people have valid opinions, that site is truly a goldmine when it comes to discovering what the people really want because there is no control and there is no moderation. Just pure, unadulterated argumentation. So don't be too quick to throw labels, especially considering their video games board holds the Legacy of Kain series in the highest of regards, as seen here (http://boards.4chan.org/v/res/211505006) and here (http://boards.4chan.org/v/res/211511831).

CAR105_3
26th Sep 2013, 14:45
don't know what you've been smoking but that's EXACTLY what the fans of LoK series want as opposed to a poor mans monday night combat which wont even have a 100 player count after two months.
I havent smoked anything, but you need to look at this from a bussiness standpoint there are way to few of us(LoK Fans) to be able to be able to produce a game that brings in profits. I think they are merely testing the waters to see how much interest LoK gathers after 10 years of being inactive in a very cost-efficient way(compared to a full-on Singleplayer game). If the games gets enough support we may see a Greenlight on a proper sequel.

What I meant by "there arent many gamers looking for a deep narrative experience" is that the average gamer doesnt care how deep a story is as long as it has enough eye candy to keep him playing. And I know that all LoK fans love a deep story, but we need to face it we are a minority in the market.

MrMilky
26th Sep 2013, 14:48
there arent many gamers looking for a deep narrative experience

That's why all the AAA titles are story-driven games. Really, where do you people pop out with such logic? :D
Do you deliberately live in the age of Super-Mario or Pac-Man?

fireAmbulance
26th Sep 2013, 14:55
Jihadist, I'm glad someone actually agrees with me. To be honest, I'm somewhat surprised that more devs don't go there to ask opinions, because that's essentially what it does best. Calling it a "troll website" is like looking at youtube and saying it's only for music videos. Sure, there's a lot of them, but aside from them, there's plenty of other worthwhile stuff there.

CAR105_3
26th Sep 2013, 15:01
That's why all the AAA titles are story-driven games. Really, where do you people pop out with such logic? :D
Do you deliberately live in the age of Super-Mario or Pac-Man?
No I don't live in the Pac-Man era. Yes there are many story driven games but their selling point to average gamers is the multiplayer aspect. Members on forums are a minority compared to the rest of the market.

Winterkalt
26th Sep 2013, 15:05
I really thought it was not going to be a nice game. But i was so wrong, i liked it. There is variety at last in Nosgoth! A multiplayer game with characters from the death of Raziel until the domination by Kain of all the world of Nosgoth. Impressive.

Soradus
26th Sep 2013, 15:17
Can we add like 3 more classes in each faction. it seems that 3 is not enough :(. Hoping to see more gameplay vidz :)

Le_Don
26th Sep 2013, 15:20
Of course you can.

Let's take TR for example. Well known for its strong SP campaigns. Then there was a little game called Guardian of Light. A weak story consisting of just a few images flashing by. And the gameplay was totally different to that of a regular TR game and there was a strong MP aspect. Naturally disappointing to die-hard TR fans.

What happened? It was a fun game to play and a few years later the fans got another regular SP game with "normal" gameplay and a strong story.
I'm pretty aware of Guardian of Light and I say it's a bad comparison, because Tomb Raider had never been off for over a decade and Square Enix and Eidos never had to use Guardian of Light to bring back the franchise. Nosgoth could work besides a "real" game and it was suppose to be only the multiplayer part of a "real" game, but I don't think it won't work out at all, to bring the franchise back with this game.



Guys, it would probably help these discussions a lot if you would spend less time trying to speak on behalf of "the fans" and more about your opinions,wishes, etc. :)
Well, I can only speak for myself, but these are my opinions and wishes and I'm assuming I'm not the only one with these thoughts.

Rich9119
26th Sep 2013, 15:23
"So, Nosgoth is a free-to-play game - but it's not pay-to-win."

Such a relief. From what I've seen so far, this game looks promising

Blackykun
26th Sep 2013, 15:24
I havent smoked anything, but you need to look at this from a bussiness standpoint there are way to few of us(LoK Fans) to be able to be able to produce a game that brings in profits. I think they are merely testing the waters to see how much interest LoK gathers after 10 years of being inactive in a very cost-efficient way(compared to a full-on Singleplayer game). If the games gets enough support we may see a Greenlight on a proper sequel.

What I meant by "there arent many gamers looking for a deep narrative experience" is that the average gamer doesnt care how deep a story is as long as it has enough eye candy to keep him playing. And I know that all LoK fans love a deep story, but we need to face it we are a minority in the market.

From a business standpoint this is suicide. Alienate oldfans and use the IP to make a niche MMO subgenre game, of which there are like... Two that can be tentatively called profitable, while not using all the strong points that the IP is known for can only end in obscurity. Remember all the WoWslayers and how Guardians of Middle-Earth, HoN and that one chinese **** with Shrek rocked the MOBA genre?

I do not understand how anyone in the marketing division thought this would be a good idea.
...There is one, right?

Gihadist
26th Sep 2013, 15:33
I do not understand how anyone in the marketing division thought this would be a good idea.
...There is one, right?

The only thing that makes much sense right now is a situation where Square shareholders saw how popular the big name MOBA's were and unanimously decided "Take any unused IP we own so that we have a fanbase to work with, outsource the work to a company with a reputation for streamlining games and ruining classics, and make a big ol' MOBA so we too can live off of online pay 2 win dollars".

Blackykun
26th Sep 2013, 15:42
The only thing that makes much sense right now is a situation where Square shareholders saw how popular the big name MOBA's were and unanimously decided "Take any unused IP we own so that we have a fanbase to work with, outsource the work to a company with a reputation for streamlining games and ruining classics, and make a big ol' MOBA so we too can live off of online pay 2 win dollars".


Square shareholders

Those exist? lol

Not even that makes sense considering the amount of floundering Enix has been going through doing exactly that. Not even the core IPs are working anymore, the Square part of Enix was talking about breaking off from the company a few months ago, sales are lower then a midget's testicles.

And streamlined gaming has been slowly dying (thank god) for the past few years, only scum like COD and whatnot barely being able to pay back it cost to make all those lensflare effects. Its like people don't listen to news, or look up how much the stock of this or that company is worth...

I just... I just really want to take a look into how these decisions are made, who decides on stuff like this and how he/she justifies his ideas.

****, its 2013, the age of company bought reviews, media control, shovelware and ENTITLED FANS is ending.

BLOODRAPTOR
26th Sep 2013, 15:43
o thakls for deleting my poste...ok
This game is not what i expected for many years....i think the developers haven't seen any priveous LoK game...

peucocl
26th Sep 2013, 15:52
can be werewolf in the future? like rock paper scissor, werewolf vampire and humans

Blackykun
26th Sep 2013, 15:54
Wait, did someone say DmC fits with its series, and that it worked?

AAAAAAAAHAHAHHAHA

Driber
26th Sep 2013, 15:59
No, seriously, what you have against people stating what the fans feel? What, everybody who're displeased are incorrect? Crazy? :)

Yes :p

No, seriously, discussions get cluttered when some fans try to speak on behalf of *all* fans and make it seem that everyone is displeased and in exactly the exact same way.

It's a common tactic used to make one's argument appear stronger, which often leads to flaming arguments.


Actually Driber said that YouTube isn't really important

No I didn't.


Whoa there friend, hold your horses. I had to make an account just to say this. 4chan is by no mean a "troll website", its just that every user is anonymous and are free to outrightly speak their opinion without fear of backlash from the site's moderation, so unless you're weak of heart and can't bear with the fact that other people have valid opinions, that site is truly a goldmine when it comes to discovering what the people really want because there is no control and there is no moderation. Just pure, unadulterated argumentation. So don't be too quick to throw labels, especially considering their video games board holds the Legacy of Kain series in the highest of regards, as seen here (http://boards.4chan.org/v/res/211505006) and here (http://boards.4chan.org/v/res/211511831).

Sorry but I'm not setting a foot in that... place.

In my view, totally anonymous, inhibitioned and unmoderated content is one of the evils of the modern internet. If you're into that sort of thing, that's fine, but to me 4chan is a troll website. No offense to 4chan members who post like a civilized adult there, if there are any.


Sure, there's a lot of them, but...

I rest my case.


I'm pretty aware of Guardian of Light and I say it's a bad comparison, because Tomb Raider had never been off for over a decade and Square Enix and Eidos never had to use Guardian of Light to bring back the franchise. Nosgoth could work besides a "real" game and it was suppose to be only the multiplayer part of a "real" game, but I don't think it won't work out at all, to bring the franchise back with this game..

I don't think it's a bad comparison, because you were responding to someone who said "People will always be negative towards something new in a series." and you cannot deny that that is what is happening here, just like it was happening with GOL.

Whenever something new comes along (be it slightly different, moderately different, a lot different, or - as you say - completely "opposite" (which could be said for GOL, IMO)) there are always knee-jerk reactions to it.

As I said, we've experienced just this on the forums for the past months. A lot of people were not happy initially, then people calmed down from the initial "shock" and start getting more open-minded about the game.

Not everyone, of course. You always have some folks who will (irrationally) hate on a game no matter what...

lord_dranos
26th Sep 2013, 16:01
all b.s. and inconsistencies (at least the ones that have made them selves known already) aside,
if this game somewhere along the line does something to add to or even progress the lore and all around story, has awesome dialog, great music, amazing environment design and at some point has as much as the original cast as they can get (especially simon templeman, he's already said that he would love to get back into it) then i'm game.
that was the only things i liked about defiance.
it was a terrible game in terms of game play and environment, but it had good music, great dialog, same voice cast, and progressed the story.
don't just take elements from the series, throw them together and call it a LoK game.
there's already an established lore. don't try to change it. add to it or you're just wasting your (and our) time.

Vampmaster
26th Sep 2013, 16:09
all b.s. and inconsistencies (at least the ones that have made them selves known already) aside,
if this game somewhere along the line does something to add to or even progress the lore and all around story, has awesome dialog, great music, amazing environment design and at some point has as much as the original cast as they can get (especially simon templeman, he's already said that he would love to get back into it) then i'm game.
that was the only things i liked about defiance.
it was a terrible game in terms of game play and environment, but it had good music, great dialog, same voice cast, and progressed the story.
don't just take elements from the series, throw them together and call it a LoK game.
there's already an established lore. don't try to change it. add to it or you're just wasting your (and our) time.

What exactly has been changed? The part that says the Razielim were *instantly* wiped out the moment Raziel was thrown into the abyss or the part that says Kain sat around twiddling his thumbs for centuries while waiting for him to emerge?

fireAmbulance
26th Sep 2013, 16:25
Look, you can diss it all you want, but I'm looking at the threads that Jihadist put up right now, and aside from perhaps 10 out of around 500 posts, there is nothing but praise for the LoK franchise. Again, I'm not telling you you need to like it, I'm just saying that there are a huge amount of people there that are loyal fans of this franchise, a franchise that this very forum is dedicated to. To completely disregard the opinions of fans because they put them on a website you don't like seems rather asinine, and reflects rather poorly on the company, and the franchise you represent.

Blackykun
26th Sep 2013, 16:32
Sorry but I'm not setting a foot in that... place.

In my view, totally anonymous, inhibitioned and unmoderated content is one of the evils of the modern internet. If you're into that sort of thing, that's fine, but to me 4chan is a troll website. No offense to 4chan members who post like a civilized adult there, if there are any.

18 million potential sales lost. We're off to a good start!

I respect your view bro, but I personally find manipulation and misleading to be the banes of modern internet.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=2dPaVk4G1jg

lord_dranos
26th Sep 2013, 16:33
What exactly has been changed? The part that says the Razielim were *instantly* wiped out the moment Raziel was thrown into the abyss or the part that says Kain sat around twiddling his thumbs for centuries while waiting for him to emerge?

well the initial thing that first jumped out was the fact that they gave razielim wings. it makes sens considering that they're raziel's clan but that takes his uniqueness and throws it in the toilet for the sake of a game mechanic.
granted that raziel having wings was because he was in some way a descendant of the ancient vampires, it wasn't established at all that his brood were even capable of growing wings.
since it looks like that they're going that route, at least make them look like the ancient vampires like raziel was going to become.
i know its not a big thing, but my initial statement was referring to the inconsistencies that other people have pointed out.

the fact that kain has disappeared is a good plot device.
that gives them time to figure out what he's doing, why (if they havn't already) and to see if they CAN get simon templeman on this. if that's even an option.
we'll see what's going on once more of the game comes out.

RainaAudron
26th Sep 2013, 16:37
"granted that raziel having wings was because he was in some way a descendant of the ancient vampires, it wasn't established at all that his brood were even capable of growing wings."

Raziel is not a descendant of the Ancient Vampires in a true sense, he merely shares the blood curse. It is also established that all of Lieutenants´ brood develop the same characteristics as their leaders over time.

binarysecond
26th Sep 2013, 16:39
Ok so initial thoughts:
First one was, "Damn, really?" I'm a big fan of the series - Hell I teared up at the end of Defiance. After I got past the inital shock I was ok with the idea.
I like the idea of the game, it sounds really cool. One thing I'm looking forward to finding out more about is the gameplay. Whether or not it's a simple Arena deathmatch or something a bit like Chivalry where each team has a goal (Burns the house, breach the gatehouse etc) So with maps that have some goals or targets I think there will be some high strategy involved which is good.
I look forward to seeing this game progress and hopefully I'll be able to get involved in some way.

jjshloam
26th Sep 2013, 16:40
I havent smoked anything, but you need to look at this from a bussiness standpoint there are way to few of us(LoK Fans) to be able to be able to produce a game that brings in profits. I think they are merely testing the waters to see how much interest LoK gathers after 10 years of being inactive in a very cost-efficient way(compared to a full-on Singleplayer game). If the games gets enough support we may see a Greenlight on a proper sequel.

What I meant by "there aren't many gamers looking for a deep narrative experience" is that the average gamer doesn't care how deep a story is as long as it has enough eye candy to keep him playing. And I know that all LoK fans love a deep story, but we need to face it we are a minority in the market.

that's what i'm afraid of. i hope you're right with the assumption that increased interest in Nosgoth might make Square re-evaluate the series and hopefully put out a true sequel/conclusion.

but I'm also worried that this might be a lose/lose situation for the fans. such as lets assume the game does really well based on its own merits, combat is tight, fun gameplay and so on. gets a decent userbase on steam which eventually leads to console releases. Cashshop does well. Then all of a sudden square realizes that the multiplayer only game did much better than any previous ones and decides that the series would be a mmorpg or multiplayer only from now on. psyonix returns to make 'Nosgoth 2: Call of Modern Military edition'. fans get shafted.

or

Nosgoth doesn't do well for many of the reasons previously mentioned leading Square to squash the series forever.

these are my two fears.

@Driber
TR can not be compared to LoK as TR was never dead. it was getting games (regardless good or bad) and its not a big deal if it gets a small spinoff between the major releases.

well.. enough with the rant.. game's gonna come out whether we like it or not. might as well let things play out and wait for the true sequel.

though i do have a request. why doesn't square enix remaster the series in HD? that would be a day one preorder for me. even at $50-60 if its a 5 in 1 bundle.

Gihadist
26th Sep 2013, 16:42
Sorry but I'm not setting a foot in that... place.

In my view, totally anonymous, inhibitioned and unmoderated content is one of the evils of the modern internet. If you're into that sort of thing, that's fine, but to me 4chan is a troll website. No offense to 4chan members who post like a civilized adult there, if there are any.

...You always have some folks who will (irrationally) hate on a game no matter what...

Regardless of whether or not one community's opinions is right or wrong, moderated or unmoderated, anonymous or linked to their Google+ account, one thing is for certain. Nobody is going to give Nosgoth a chance with the way Square Enix and Psyonix have disrespectfully handled this classic, story-driven franchise and the way they have treated its dedicated fanbase. There is absolutely no way you can deny this. Look anywhere besides your own forums. Read through the threads and posts on 4chan (http://boards.4chan.org/v/res/211505006), glance through the discussion page on Nosgoth's YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/user/nosgoth/discussion) channel, read the comments on any news article like GamesRadar (http://www.gamesradar.com/nosgoth-f2p-shooterstalker-set-within-legacy-kain-world/), Joystiq (http://www.joystiq.com/2013/09/25/nosgoth-unveiled-in-new-trailer-beta-registration-opens/), VG247 (http://www.vg247.com/2013/09/25/nosgoth-is-a-free-to-play-legacy-of-kain-game/comment-page-1/), Neoseeker (http://www.neoseeker.com/news/23875-nosgoth-announced-freetoplay-human-vs-vampire-multiplayer-game-born-from-legacy-of-kain/), Shack News (http://www.shacknews.com/article/81288/nosgoth-revealed-a-f2p-game-in-the-legacy-of-kain), and thousands more. If you take the time to read through everything, you will know for a fact that, anonymous or not, Legacy of Kain fans are either weary of Nosgoth, strongly opposed to it, or simply disinterested while all sharing a general feeling of depression in knowing that the next step in the series is several step backwards... In the wrong direction.

Surely this identifiable and moderated content is feasible enough to show the fanbase's overall disappointment with Nosgoth, or are all of these news articles from troll websites as well?

Driber
26th Sep 2013, 16:47
Look, you can diss it all you want, but I'm looking at the threads that Jihadist put up right now, and aside from perhaps 10 out of around 500 posts, there is nothing but praise for the LoK franchise. Again, I'm not telling you you need to like it, I'm just saying that there are a huge amount of people there that are loyal fans of this franchise, a franchise that this very forum is dedicated to. To completely disregard the opinions of fans because they put them on a website you don't like seems rather asinine, and reflects rather poorly on the company, and the franchise you represent.

Why are you getting so worked up about my personal opinion on 4chan?

Are you under the impression I'm calling the shots on where SE is getting their feedback from or something?


18 million potential sales lost. We're off to a good start!

What on earth are you talking about?


I personally find manipulation and misleading to be the banes of modern internet.

Those are nasty things, too, for sure.

Monkeythumbz
26th Sep 2013, 16:48
Regardless of whether or not one community's opinions is right or wrong, moderated or unmoderated, anonymous or linked to their Google+ account, one thing is for certain. Nobody is going to give Nosgoth a chance with the way Square Enix and Psyonix have disrespectfully handled this classic, story-driven franchise and the way they have treated its dedicated fanbase. There is absolutely no way you can deny this. Look anywhere besides your own forums. Read through the threads and posts on 4chan (http://boards.4chan.org/v/res/211505006), glance through the discussion page on Nosgoth's YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/user/nosgoth/discussion) channel, read the comments on any news article like GamesRadar (http://www.gamesradar.com/nosgoth-f2p-shooterstalker-set-within-legacy-kain-world/), Joystiq (http://www.joystiq.com/2013/09/25/nosgoth-unveiled-in-new-trailer-beta-registration-opens/), VG247 (http://www.vg247.com/2013/09/25/nosgoth-is-a-free-to-play-legacy-of-kain-game/comment-page-1/), Neoseeker (http://www.neoseeker.com/news/23875-nosgoth-announced-freetoplay-human-vs-vampire-multiplayer-game-born-from-legacy-of-kain/), Shack News (http://www.shacknews.com/article/81288/nosgoth-revealed-a-f2p-game-in-the-legacy-of-kain), and thousands more. If you take the time to read through everything, you will know for a fact that, anonymous or not, Legacy of Kain fans are either weary of Nosgoth, strongly opposed to it, or simply disinterested while all sharing a general feeling of depression in knowing that the next step in the series is several step backwards... In the wrong direction.

Surely this identifiable and moderated content is feasible enough to show the fanbase's overall disappointment with Nosgoth, or are all of these news articles from troll websites as well?

You forgot NeoGAF. Also, welcome to the boards.

Driber
26th Sep 2013, 16:54
@Driber
TR can not be compared to LoK as TR was never dead. it was getting games (regardless good or bad) and its not a big deal if it gets a small spinoff between the major releases.

I understand that, but that's not the point I was making.


Regardless of whether or not one community's opinions is right or wrong, moderated or unmoderated, anonymous or linked to their Google+ account, one thing is for certain. Nobody is going to give Nosgoth a chance with the way Square Enix and Psyonix have disrespectfully handled this classic, story-driven franchise and the way they have treated its dedicated fanbase.

It's almost like you want the game to fail.

Then what - no more LOK ever? Would that be better for the fans?


There is absolutely no way you can deny this.

Oh I can. Just talk to the die-hard LOK fans who have actually had a hands-on playing Nosgoth :)

Le_Don
26th Sep 2013, 16:55
I don't think it's a bad comparison, because you were responding to someone who said "People will always be negative towards something new in a series." and you cannot deny that that is what is happening here, just like it was happening with GOL.
I'm not denying anything, I'm just saying this comparison lacks of it context and Guardian of Light indeed doesn't matter on the long run, because there had always been a Tomb Raider around. The next Tomb Raider hadn't been release because Guardian of Light turned out so well, a new Tomb Raider would have been out anyway.



As I said, we've experienced just this on the forums for the past months. A lot of people were not happy initially, then people calmed down from the initial "shock" and start getting more open-minded about the game.
And other people aren't still happy and/or haven't been at the forum to begin with. I would say let's look at the voting of the Youtube trailer to get an impression, but - well, yea. And the people know about Nosgoth for a few month already, but they still react negativly around to have the votings disabled.

WoeToTheConquered
26th Sep 2013, 16:59
I thought I might make another note here, aside from the general advice of "Be careful!"

The next bit of advice is that if you want this game to be a huge hit, don't simply avoid stepping on the toes of the canon, you've got to embrace it as well. Include huge chunks of the rest of the lore in the game! This all takes place during the second great Vampire Purge, does it not? Both of them (after Kain's assassination of William the Just) were spearheaded by Moebius the Time Streamer. He could very well be the head of the Human faction and have a rather large role in this game. Likewise Kain and/or the remaining Vampire Lieutenants could be the face of the Vampire faction(s). Also, while the Hylden are indeed still trapped in their dimensional prison, it's established in many cases that they can still corrupt/influence those in Nosgoth, specifically referring to Turel's possession and descent into madness--THIS could be a big part of the game as well.

I'm assuming that you guys (the Dev team) have already thought of this stuff, but I thought better of not mentioning it in the off-hand chance that you folks were just planning on tip-toeing around the lore, rather than holding hands with it.
Just be sure to look out for instances of the lore that can intersect with this timeline and try to be inclusive with it, rather than trying to avoid touching it for fear of breaking it. It'll make this a much more engaging title both for me and the other fans that have been screaming everywhere on these forums for a story line (but not being very specific about it, strangely...), as well as the newcomers to the series who deserve to have at least a taste of the lore that made the LoK franchise the massive hit that it wa--IS. :)


Post Script:

I keep thinking of a Blood Omen: Legacy of Kain (the original game) remake for the next-gen era, and I'm almost drowning in drool...


Post Post Script:

Has anyone ever considered making a PREQUEL to Blood Omen: Legacy of Kain? Where you play as the HUMAN Kain? Who was a noble? I think that could be very intriguing, personally....

Monkeythumbz
26th Sep 2013, 17:04
The funny thing is, I have access to the Beta registration numbers... let's just say that things are looking pretty healthy right now :-)

By the way, sorry I've been so silent here on Nosgoth's official forum today - I'm a little swamped in terms of the game's various different communication channels, but rest assured I'll do my best to answer whatever salient points I can as soon as I'm able. That may not be today, or even tomorrow (I'm afraid I'll be indisposed from tomorrow morning until Monday without access to internet - inconvenient to say the least), however I *do* care and I *will* respond as soon as I can.

In the meantime, a pause for reflection - it sure is nice for LoK to be on everybody's radar again, huh?

Gihadist
26th Sep 2013, 17:05
You forgot NeoGAF. Also, welcome to the boards.

As well as about thirty five other major digital media platforms, and thank you.


It's almost like you want the game to fail.

Then what - no more LOK ever? Would that be better for the fans?

At this point, death might just be the better option. Square could have done just about anything with this franchise, including a direct sequel or an HD collection release. Instead, they created Nosgoth. If this freemium model MOBA succeeds with its awkwardly hamfisted lore, then it gives the higher ups the idea that the LoK fans are okay with receiving cheap spinoffs and eventual, DLC-riddled interquels that simply disgrace the series and prolong its death in an agonizing, painful manner.

Monkeythumbz
26th Sep 2013, 17:06
This all takes place during the second great Vampire Purge, does it not?

No, it doesn't. You know what, I'll do a lore post in a new thread.

MrMilky
26th Sep 2013, 17:07
No I don't live in the Pac-Man era. Yes there are many story driven games but their selling point to average gamers is the multiplayer aspect. Members on forums are a minority compared to the rest of the market.

You don't know that and still to me this look just worse having all the overwhelming negativity from a lot of users of the initial fanbase. This act alienated a huge portion of the fans and it's evident. I disagree that people don't play SP and with good marketing anything is possible. Take a look at Skyrim. Pure hype/marketing.

Aside from that you can't GET MORE FANS by making a MP game who will perhaps play SP. Do you believe that people who play Tropico 4 will go back and play Caesar III? NOPE, they'll wait Tropico 5.

Jeffers
26th Sep 2013, 17:07
Nobody is going to give Nosgoth a chance with the way Square Enix and Psyonix have disrespectfully handled this classic, story-driven franchise and the way they have treated its dedicated fanbase. There is absolutely no way you can deny this.

You know what, I'm only going to quote this little part and make a point on this. You can have your opion and do whatever you want with it, everyone is entitled to that. You have seen a 4 minute launch trailer which has the developers initially describing the game.

I would read these 3 pages, which discuss Nosgoth in a bit more detail and then go away and think about it for an hour with a fresh mind.

http://legacyofkain.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:Baziel/Nosgoth:_First_Looks
http://theancientsden.blogspot.co.uk/2013/09/london-square-enix-nosgoth-community.html
http://lucinvampireslair.blogspot.co.uk/2013/09/game-nosgoth-pc-pre-release-review.html

Now I very much doubt you'll have changed your opinion but I am going to add this.

Having listened to the devs and seen the game, saying that it is has been disrespectfully handled is a load of nonsense. Yes it is a completely different type of game, yes it is not story driven, however the game stays true to the Lore of Nosgoth and is very respectfull in the way that is handeled.

lord_dranos
26th Sep 2013, 17:14
In the meantime, a pause for reflection - it sure is nice for LoK to be on everybody's radar again, huh?

it sure is.
you can watch the same youtube videos only so many times.
we need to keep this stuff buzzing.
show people that there is a big interest in this.
there is still so much potential in this series.

Driber
26th Sep 2013, 17:14
I'm not denying anything, I'm just saying this comparison lacks of it context and Guardian of Light indeed doesn't matter on the long run, because there had always been a Tomb Raider around. The next Tomb Raider hadn't been release because Guardian of Light turned out so well, a new Tomb Raider would have been out anyway.

That would have remained to be seen. If it wasn't for a certain company - who everyone loves to hate so much - pumping a lot of money (and trust) into CD to make TR9, the series may very well have been dead by now, too, if you look at the declining sales pre-TR9.


And other people aren't still happy and/or haven't been at the forum to begin with. I would say let's look at the voting of the Youtube trailer to get an impression, but - well, yea. And the people know about Nosgoth for a few month already, but they still react negativly around to have the votings disabled.

Actually, I'm pretty sure *many* people did not even know about Nosgoth until yesterday. So I think that we're basically in the same spot right now with those people as we were months ago with the folks who religiously followed the tidbits pre- official reveal.

MrMilky
26th Sep 2013, 17:15
In any of those texts I don't see them saying how the game Nosgoth is epic, great, amazing, worth as much as LoK. I see doubt, negation, taking the free ride to London SE HQ and having fun with OTHER LOK FANS, not with Nosgoth.

And, regardless, that's no argumentation. Those are opinions from people who are developing their own LoK tributes, each on their own way. And I bet that the Soul Revenant will be tremendously better then Nosgoth. :) Because Fans know their two cents.

Monkeythumbz
26th Sep 2013, 17:16
At this point, death might just be the better option. Square could have done just about anything with this franchise, including a direct sequel or an HD collection release. Instead, they created Nosgoth. If this freemium model MOBA succeeds with its awkwardly hamfisted lore, then it gives the higher ups the idea that the LoK fans are okay with receiving cheap spinoffs and eventual, DLC-riddled interquels that simply disgrace the series and prolong its death in an agonizing, painful manner.

Hey, how's it going? always happy to chat with a fellow passionate fan of the LoK series. A couple of points: firstly it's not a MOBA (but I get that there's not much of a difference in your eyes) and secondly the lore definitely isn't awkward or ham-fisted (in any case, that's just, like, your opinion man).

Lastly, please consider that you have sveral hardcore LoK fans here who have not just seen but also played the game saying to at least give it a *small* chance. Please would you try to keep even the merest gap of an open mind until we've revealed more than an announcement trailer based off pre-Alpha footage?

Anyway, I'm massively pushed for time right now so if you're looking for the straight dope from the horse's mouth (i.e. mine), please check out this thread on GAF (I jump in on page 3): Nosgoth (Square Enix/Psyonix, Legacy of Kain, F2P) Announcement Trailer (http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=685945&page=3)

Alhazredd
26th Sep 2013, 17:27
There's nothing wrong with staff joining the discussions.

On our forums members are actually often saying that they appreciate that the staff is not so distant like on other forums out there and don't just come around when there are TOU violations to take care of.

And our Senior Nosgoth Mods (The Hylden and Umah Bloodomen) are LOK veterans who bring a lot of value in terms of lore knowledge. It would be a crime for them to shun the discussions :)

As for the heated debates - that's to be expected. Don't worry, things will calm down eventually.



Do not worry, we have been doing this for years :cool:



Well I'm sure you know what I meant about 4chan's reputation.



And they are... just not on YT.



Yes, that has been my experience with pretty much ever game launch I've witnessed.



Your analogy of a plate of whatsit (I assume that's what you tried to post?) is childish. Let's keep it reasonable, please.

And the "better a dead franchise than a game I don't like" is just plain selfish. There are plenty of people who are looking forward to playing this game. Who are you to deny them that?

As for the comparison to TR9, that doesn't work, either. The game was a massive success and blew some much needed fresh air into the series. It wasn't a perfect game, and I personally would also have liked to see more classic influences in it, but it was great to play nonetheless and I'm looking forward to seeing where the next ones will take Lara.

And that's coming from a fan since the classic games :cool:

Yeah I'm sure you were a huge fan of the classic games and I'm sorry my analogy doesn't meet with your approval, and it isn't about "a game I don't like" this about you guys ruining a series that should have been left alone, and I'm sorry to have to tell you this but tomb raider was awful, as a game, did it have its moments? sure it did but all in all it was just another rehashed game filled with bugs that was basically only brought about so someone could line their pockets

WoeToTheConquered
26th Sep 2013, 17:30
No, it doesn't. You know what, I'll do a lore post in a new thread.

That might be helpful actually, thank you. :)

Alhazredd
26th Sep 2013, 17:31
Oh no, a bunch of downloadable content. LoK is doomed. Truly the lack of DLC is why we're all fans of it.

Square-Enix IS in charge of the franchise, regardless of what I want. And so far they're not breaking any canon with this game. So we'll see what there actually is on that plate.
You're missing the point, a company with the best intentions for their game does not make 100+ dlc for it to milk every last drop they can get

Monkeythumbz
26th Sep 2013, 17:32
Yeah I'm sure you were a huge fan of the classic games and I'm sorry my analogy doesn't meet with your approval, and it isn't about "a game I don't like" this about you guys ruining a series that should have been left alone, and I'm sorry to have to tell you this but tomb raider was awful, as a game, did it have its moments? sure it did but all in all it was just another rehashed game filled with bugs that was basically only brought about so someone could line their pockets

I really enjoyed the most recent Tomb Raider! I thought it was one of the best games I'd played in ages, full credit to Crystal D for creating such a gem of game.

Just goes to show that people can have wildly different opinions about the exact same thing. :)

Blackykun
26th Sep 2013, 17:33
Then what - no more LOK ever?

Well you do your best to say that this isnt LoK.


Health numbers

I registered too but I don't expect the game to amount to anything, be careful with numbers.

Monkeythumbz
26th Sep 2013, 17:37
You're missing the point, a company with the best intentions for their game does not make 100+ dlc for it to milk every last drop they can get

Who says that's what we're doing? Sorry, I must have missed that memo.

Monkeythumbz
26th Sep 2013, 17:38
That might be helpful actually, thank you. :)

Done! You can find it here (http://forums.eu.square-enix.com/showthread.php?t=7221&p=66638#post66638).

Driber
26th Sep 2013, 17:42
At this point, death might just be the better option.

The "better a dead franchise than a game I don't personally like" argument is flawed, tired, and just plain selfish.


Square could have done just about anything with this franchise, including a direct sequel or an HD collection release.

Or a reboot...


Instead, they created Nosgoth. If this freemium model MOBA succeeds with its awkwardly hamfisted lore

I advice you to take note from die-hard fans who have actually played the game - http://forums.eu.square-enix.com/showthread.php?t=7176&p=66616#post66616


then it gives the higher ups the idea that the LoK fans are okay with receiving cheap spinoffs and eventual, DLC-riddled interquels that simply disgrace the series and prolong its death in an agonizing, painful manner.

Assumptions. Dooms day scenarios.

Sorry, but not helpful.


Yeah I'm sure you were a huge fan of the classic games

...and still am. Just played a custom level yesterday, in fact.


and I'm sorry my analogy doesn't meet with your approval

You don't need my approval :)


and it isn't about "a game I don't like" this about you guys ruining a series that should have been left alone

Many passionate LOK fans would disagree with you there.


and I'm sorry to have to tell you this but tomb raider was awful, as a game, did it have its moments? sure it did but all in all it was just another rehashed game filled with bugs that was basically only brought about so someone could line their pockets

Sales figures and reviews say something completely different ;)

Jeffers
26th Sep 2013, 17:42
In any of those texts I don't see them saying how the game Nosgoth is epic, great, amazing, worth as much as LoK. I see doubt, negation, taking the free ride to London SE HQ and having fun with OTHER LOK FANS, not with Nosgoth.


Ok then I'll bite.

I went with doubt, nervousness and excitement, however I came out feeling very optomistic, postive and excited about the future for both Nosgoth and Legacy of Kain.

I've said a couple of times in this thread, the game sits well within the Lore and the efforts gone to to make it fit really shows. Playing the actual game, as you well know MrMilky, George has always said is extremly fun to play. It is, yes it is. The time I spent with Nosgoth was great, we saw 2 areas/maps and it has gone with a very set path. Blood Omen 2, for all it's sins, spread out and stretched the world of Nosgoth. This is the opportunity to see some of those areas.

Give it a chance, it might suprise you.

Le_Don
26th Sep 2013, 17:47
That would have remained to be seen. If it wasn't for a certain company - who everyone loves to hate so much - pumping a lot of money (and trust) into CD to make TR9, the series may very well have been dead by now, too, if you look at the declining sales pre-TR9.
After the Angel of Darkness the Tomb Raider series would be pretty dead, but luckily they could avoid that. However they did it with the Guardian of Light spin off, but by giving a great team the opportunity. It would be great if the same thing would work with the LoK franchise.


Actually, I'm pretty sure *many* people did not even know about Nosgoth until yesterday. So I think that we're basically in the same spot right now with those people as we were months ago with the folks who religiously followed the tidbits pre- official reveal.
And I'm pretty sure the people, who had to know about this game did know about it earlier, before the announcement trailer. Would like to know how many "none LoK" people did in fact see the trailer and really care about this.

Alhazredd
26th Sep 2013, 18:01
Who says that's what we're doing? Sorry, I must have missed that memo.
These forums are FILLED with viral marketers and people paid to give a positive post. Yeah that's legit pal.
@ Driber aka monkeythumbz not sure why you're posting with two accounts in the same thread but hey whatever, paid reviews mean nothing and you're equating sales figure with "quality game"

Moesph
26th Sep 2013, 18:11
These forums are FILLED with viral marketers and people paid to give a positive post. Yeah that's legit pal.
@ Driber aka monkeythumbz not sure why you're posting with two accounts in the same thread but hey whatever, paid reviews mean nothing and you're equating sales figure with "quality game"
Tinfoil hat.

Blackykun
26th Sep 2013, 18:12
Sales figures and reviews say something completely different ;)

You really want to walk down that path? Of hard facts and credible reviews? Nah man, I can guarantee it will only end in tears. Not mine.

Blackykun
26th Sep 2013, 18:12
Tinfoil hat.

To be fair, being paranoid does not necesserially mean he isn't right. It would not be something without precedent.

Limed00d
26th Sep 2013, 18:13
These forums are FILLED with viral marketers and people paid to give a positive post. Yeah that's legit pal.
@ Driber aka monkeythumbz not sure why you're posting with two accounts in the same thread but hey whatever, paid reviews mean nothing and you're equating sales figure with "quality game"

Oh so that explains the Ferrari in my garage.

Alhazredd
26th Sep 2013, 18:20
http://oi42.tinypic.com/wcbynd.jpg
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2dsqy9w&s=5#.UkR6DobUl8E
yeah because these guys for example sure look like your average player, first off who makes an account to write no more then 2-3 posts all of them just raining laurels down on the game without any actual opinion
yeah this is how people who bothered to play the series talk
and are you two trying to imply paid advertisers dont exist?
Og jeg vil blive fordømt, hvis du er fra norge bjergabe

Rynfear
26th Sep 2013, 18:21
You're missing the point, a company with the best intentions for their game does not make 100+ dlc for it to milk every last drop they can get

Good thing this is neither a paid game nor Tomb Raider then, right? Though I'm sure you can find something else to rant about.

I'll save my judgement for after I played the game. So far, I can only judge based on the small bits of lore they've released. And so far the lore is tight.

Your signature is completely misunderstanding what they're saying btw.

Blackykun
26th Sep 2013, 18:22
http://oi42.tinypic.com/wcbynd.jpg
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2dsqy9w&s=5#.UkR6DobUl8E
yeah because these guys for example sure look like your average player, first off who makes an account to write no more then 2-3 posts all of them just raining laurels down on the game without any actual opinion
yeah this is how people who bothered to play the series talk
and are you two trying to imply paid advertisers dont exist?
Og jeg vil blive fordømt, hvis du er fra norge bjergabe

Sssh, your opinion does not matter, you clearly haven't played the game like they have. Like the majority of... Well kind of everyone. Sarcasm.

Monkeythumbz
26th Sep 2013, 18:24
http://oi42.tinypic.com/wcbynd.jpg
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2dsqy9w&s=5#.UkR6DobUl8E
yeah because these guys for example sure look like your average player, first off who makes an account to write no more then 2-3 posts all of them just raining laurels down on the game without any actual opinion
yeah this is how people who bothered to play the series talk
and are you two trying to imply paid advertisers dont exist?
Og jeg vil blive fordømt, hvis du er fra norge bjergabe

Firstly, me and Driber are different people. I am the game's CM, he is the forum super admin. We're not even in the same country!

Secondly, there are no viral marketers here - we don't have the budget and if we did, we'd spend it on making trailers and screenshots.

Thirdly, this is a warning, More of this stuff like this from you and you'll get IP banned.

Blackykun
26th Sep 2013, 18:26
Here we go. Called it day one.

Limed00d
26th Sep 2013, 18:27
There will always be people like Alhazredd in situations like these.

SireofVorador
26th Sep 2013, 18:28
Maybe the Razielim are simply more degenerate because they have been almost starved of blood? didn't the same thing happen to Janos after being in the machine and starved of blood for so long? Given the treatment that the Razielim would have endured at the other clans i believe it is entirely possible

Monkeythumbz
26th Sep 2013, 18:28
Here we go. Called it day one.

I am totally, totally fine with people slamming the game. I am, not, however, totally fine with being called an impostor, nor the forum staff being made light of.

Do I make myself clear?

Alhazredd
26th Sep 2013, 18:31
Firstly, me and Driber are different people. I am the game's CM, he is the forum super admin. We're not even in the same country!

Secondly, there are no viral marketers here - we don't have the budget and if we did, we'd spend it on making trailers and screenshots.

Thirdly, this is a warning, More of this stuff like this from you and you'll get IP banned.

"Additionally, I (as in George/Monkeythumbz – feel free to attribute the sentiment to me personally) didn't want a wall of negativity to be the first thing people who are new to the game saw when they watched the video on our YouTube channel. I'd much rather people be allowed to come to their own conclusions about the game rather than have their opinions coloured in advance. After all, there are loads of places for people to vent about the game or to express their displeasure to us directly on multiple forums and even our own official forum, Facebook page and Twitter feed. I hope you understand.”

Oh I'm sorry was this not you?

http://oi44.tinypic.com/2epsns2.jpg

and golly I sure am sorry i shared my opinion boss man

Moesph
26th Sep 2013, 18:35
Alhazredd, take a closer look at your own screenshot, it's quoted.

Monkeythumbz
26th Sep 2013, 18:36
"Additionally, I (as in George/Monkeythumbz – feel free to attribute the sentiment to me personally) didn't want a wall of negativity to be the first thing people who are new to the game saw when they watched the video on our YouTube channel. I'd much rather people be allowed to come to their own conclusions about the game rather than have their opinions coloured in advance. After all, there are loads of places for people to vent about the game or to express their displeasure to us directly on multiple forums and even our own official forum, Facebook page and Twitter feed. I hope you understand.”

Oh I'm sorry was this not you?

http://oi44.tinypic.com/2epsns2.jpg

and golly I sure am sorry i shared my opinion boss man

I gave Driber permission to post that on my behalf because I was busy elsewhere, hence the bit about it being attributed to me personally.

And this isn't your opinion, you're trying to be a nuisance on purpose and you know it. But hey, you're having fun, right? Well, that's them main thing I suppose.

Rynfear
26th Sep 2013, 18:36
"Additionally, I (as in George/Monkeythumbz – feel free to attribute the sentiment to me personally) didn't want a wall of negativity to be the first thing people who are new to the game saw when they watched the video on our YouTube channel. I'd much rather people be allowed to come to their own conclusions about the game rather than have their opinions coloured in advance. After all, there are loads of places for people to vent about the game or to express their displeasure to us directly on multiple forums and even our own official forum, Facebook page and Twitter feed. I hope you understand.”

Oh I'm sorry was this not you?

http://oi44.tinypic.com/2epsns2.jpg

and golly I sure am sorry i shared my opinion boss man

You're digging your own grave. Maybe you should read the entire post you quoted. It's right there in the screenshot after all.

Your opinion is never the issue, by the way. It's how you express it.

Alhazredd
26th Sep 2013, 18:40
Actually I'm not having fun, I'm sorry you would think that, and I wasn't aware stating my opinion made me a nuisance, pal

Limed00d
26th Sep 2013, 18:42
"Additionally, I (as in George/Monkeythumbz – feel free to attribute the sentiment to me personally) didn't want a wall of negativity to be the first thing people who are new to the game saw when they watched the video on our YouTube channel. I'd much rather people be allowed to come to their own conclusions about the game rather than have their opinions coloured in advance. After all, there are loads of places for people to vent about the game or to express their displeasure to us directly on multiple forums and even our own official forum, Facebook page and Twitter feed. I hope you understand.”

Oh I'm sorry was this not you?

http://oi44.tinypic.com/2epsns2.jpg

and golly I sure am sorry i shared my opinion boss man

Nice job shooting your own foot man.
The italic is used to represent the fact that this is a quote.

Alhazredd
26th Sep 2013, 18:44
Nice job shooting your own foot man.
The italic is used to represent the fact that this is a quote.
Stadig ikke overbevist bjergabe

Monkeythumbz
26th Sep 2013, 18:45
Actually I'm not having fun, I'm sorry you would think that, and I wasn't aware stating my opinion made me a nuisance, pal

How is calling me "boss man" and "pal" not trying to be churlish? Please don't suggest you intended to say themk as marks of respect after accusing us of AstroTurfing our own forum.

Now, as a fellow LoK fan I value your opinion, so please be constructive moving forwards or I'll be forced to call a time-out on your membership.

Monkeythumbz
26th Sep 2013, 18:46
Stadig ikke overbevist bjergabe

Please also adhere to rule #7 of the forum ToU (http://forums.eu.square-enix.com/announcement.php?f=97&a=1). This your absolute final warning.

Limed00d
26th Sep 2013, 18:47
Stadig ikke overbevist bjergabe

For your information I'm closer to a city rat than a hill ape, tyvm

Also this post verifies that Alhazredd is here to troll and just be a nuisance. Ugh.

Alhazredd
26th Sep 2013, 18:48
How is calling me "boss man" and "pal" not trying to be churlish? Please don't suggest you intended to say themk as marks of respect after accusing us of AstroTurfing our own forum.

Now, as a fellow LoK fan I value your opinion, so please be constructive moving forwards or I'll be forced to call a time-out on your membership.

alright, pal

Alhazredd
26th Sep 2013, 18:50
For your information I'm closer to a city rat than a hill ape, tyvm

Also this post verifies that Alhazredd is here to troll and just be a nuisance. Ugh.

Not sure how that verifies anything, friend

SireofVorador
26th Sep 2013, 18:51
I have this crazy idea here but maybe people will hear me out, maybe not.

I have stated on twitter to George many times back in the early days that this is not the game that LoK fans where after. Ok thats true.
ALL of us want that incredible next gen SP game that continues the story that we all love and possibly could keep going delving into different eras, with discoveries and knowledge aplenty!
That being said look at Nosgoth for what it is, its a game that looks great, has a lot of promise and it brings Legacy of Kain back to table. Look at people who have never heard of it before, now they will have a look at it and possibly bring them to the games we love and cherish so much. Every time someone googles Nosgoth what will come up? i dare say Kain and Raziel wont be too fr from the top so lets say that gets even more people clicking the link out of curiosity and so on and so on. This way we get a game right now that appeals to an audience far wider reaching than our own that could possibly bring a lot of new players to the franchise. Surely that is nothing but good?

So lets say that this game gathers quite a following from new players and so on, some from the gamers who only like online games which is a market in its self, some casual gamers and then people like us. Who is to say then that, that wouldnt be the plan to get the next gen title up and running two or three years? that could still have a good MP aspect rather than the much seen cobbled together and thrown onto most titles.

Alls im trying to say here people is how can you be so incredibly negative towards something that is not only a game in its self but a fantastic way of gaining free press, reviving a game that has been in limbo for ten years, bringing new players to the title amd showing us a little bit of history we have never seen first hand.
we all want that SP LoK game and this game doing well will no doubt be step one to getting it.

Monkeythumbz
26th Sep 2013, 18:53
I have this crazy idea here but maybe people will hear me out, maybe not.

I have stated on twitter to George many times back in the early days that this is not the game that LoK fans where after. Ok thats true.
ALL of us want that incredible next gen SP game that continues the story that we all love and possibly could keep going delving into different eras, with discoveries and knowledge aplenty!
That being said look at Nosgoth for what it is, its a game that looks great, has a lot of promise and it brings Legacy of Kain back to table. Look at people who have never heard of it before, now they will have a look at it and possibly bring them to the games we love and cherish so much. Every time someone googles Nosgoth what will come up? i dare say Kain and Raziel wont be too fr from the top so lets say that gets even more people clicking the link out of curiosity and so on and so on. This way we get a game right now that appeals to an audience far wider reaching than our own that could possibly bring a lot of new players to the franchise. Surely that is nothing but good?

So lets say that this game gathers quite a following from new players and so on, some from the gamers who only like online games which is a market in its self, some casual gamers and then people like us. Who is to say then that, that wouldnt be the plan to get the next gen title up and running two or three years? that could still have a good MP aspect rather than the much seen cobbled together and thrown onto most titles.

Alls im trying to say here people is how can you be so incredibly negative towards something that is not only a game in its self but a fantastic way of gaining free press, reviving a game that has been in limbo for ten years, bringing new players to the title amd showing us a little bit of history we have never seen first hand.
we all want that SP LoK game and this game doing well will no doubt be step one to getting it.

Paddy, is that you?

Blackykun
26th Sep 2013, 18:53
I am totally, totally fine with people slamming the game. I am, not, however, totally fine with being called an impostor, nor the forum staff being made light of.

Do I make myself clear?

Of course, I particularly enjoy being threatened online.

Alhazredd
26th Sep 2013, 18:54
@SireofVorador
Because I don't want this happening to my favorite series


"An ancient evil awakens"
Pan over to Raziel and Kain near the pillars
Raziel is holding a can of Moutain Dew and a bag of doritos
Raziel: So this is how it ends
Kain: It hasn't even begun
SKREEEEEEEEEEEWUUUUBwubwubwubWUUUUB
Clips of Raziel shooting from wall cover with force blasts
"**** you, Kain, you're not god, this act of genocide is uncool bro."
WubwubWUUUUUB
QTE bosses
Regenerating health
OST by Skrillex ft. Linkin Park
Developed by Bioware
Published by EA
This summer, Adam Sandler
Preorder Mobious the Dewstreamer edition 59.99

Monkeythumbz
26th Sep 2013, 18:55
Of course, I particularly enjoy being threatened online.

...with a ban from a forum. Lets not get over dramatic here.

Blackykun
26th Sep 2013, 18:56
Lets not get over dramatic here.

My thoughts exactly.

WoeToTheConquered
26th Sep 2013, 18:59
@SireofVorador
Because I don't want this happening to my favorite series


"An ancient evil awakens"
Pan over to Raziel and Kain near the pillars
Raziel is holding a can of Moutain Dew and a bag of doritos
Raziel: So this is how it ends
Kain: It hasn't even begun
SKREEEEEEEEEEEWUUUUBwubwubwubWUUUUB
Clips of Raziel shooting from wall cover with force blasts
"**** you, Kain, you're not god, this act of genocide is uncool bro."
WubwubWUUUUUB
QTE bosses
Regenerating health
OST by Skrillex ft. Linkin Park
Developed by Bioware
Published by EA
This summer, Adam Sandler
Preorder Mobious the Dewstreamer edition 59.99

That's pretty amusing actually, but entirely out of the realm of possibility. EA and BioWare don't have any rights to the LoK franchise, buddy. :)

In addition, if you're a true fan of the LoK series, you might make an attempt at being constructive rather than critical, I'm pretty sure this game is going to be released regardless of its standing in your book, so the best possible thing for you do to would be to try and help it become a game worthy of the series, rather than--and please pardon the vernacular because I can't think of anything more apt--trolling on the forums as you've been doing.

In short, HELP the game rather than trying to hurt it.

Alhazredd
26th Sep 2013, 19:00
That's pretty amusing actually, but entirely out of the realm of possibility. EA and BioWare don't have any rights to the LoK franchise, buddy. :)

It will happen pal, you could have prevented this, Square Enix refused the sacrifice and now we're all going to pay for it
Tony Jay died for this

SireofVorador
26th Sep 2013, 19:01
Sure is George

SireofVorador
26th Sep 2013, 19:08
That wont be happening because it is simply a little bit of fun that someone has come up with thats really kinda funny, for example how many games to Linkin Park and or Skrillex do the OST for? do you know of any? is so please tell me so i can check them out :P
If you think that Raziel would say " bro " then then i think you have been drinking the crazy juice from Avernus my friend ;)

Believe me ive been a fan of this series since it was released back in the day on the Pc 20 years ago. I know that we all want the SP aspect played and i have no doubt getting it will be based on the peoples reactions to this a little bit. As it brings it back to the fore.

If you are so very very against it, well, then dont play it, see how easily i have solved your woes there :)

Alhazredd
26th Sep 2013, 19:09
I made it, Tony Jay is rolling in his grave right now also, FRIEND, it will happen, PAL

SireofVorador
26th Sep 2013, 19:11
Tony Jay died for this

You are incredibly disrespectful!

Alhazredd
26th Sep 2013, 19:13
one of the greatest voice actors of our time, breathed life into the game and played the hell out of the Elder God and who loved the series would weep right now if he saw this game, amigo

Limed00d
26th Sep 2013, 19:14
Let's just ignore Alhazredd and continue the discussion without him.

Alhazredd
26th Sep 2013, 19:16
You can't exclude someone from the group, that's bully behaviour, and being a bully is wrong

Rynfear
26th Sep 2013, 19:19
@SireofVorador
Because I don't want this happening to my favorite series


"An ancient evil awakens"
Pan over to Raziel and Kain near the pillars
Raziel is holding a can of Moutain Dew and a bag of doritos
Raziel: So this is how it ends
Kain: It hasn't even begun
SKREEEEEEEEEEEWUUUUBwubwubwubWUUUUB
Clips of Raziel shooting from wall cover with force blasts
"**** you, Kain, you're not god, this act of genocide is uncool bro."
WubwubWUUUUUB
QTE bosses
Regenerating health
OST by Skrillex ft. Linkin Park
Developed by Bioware
Published by EA
This summer, Adam Sandler
Preorder Mobious the Dewstreamer edition 59.99

What are you talking about, I'd buy that **** in an instant.

MrMilky
26th Sep 2013, 19:21
Ok then I'll bite.

I went with doubt, nervousness and excitement, however I came out feeling very optomistic, postive and excited about the future for both Nosgoth and Legacy of Kain.

I've said a couple of times in this thread, the game sits well within the Lore and the efforts gone to to make it fit really shows. Playing the actual game, as you well know MrMilky, George has always said is extremly fun to play. It is, yes it is. The time I spent with Nosgoth was great, we saw 2 areas/maps and it has gone with a very set path. Blood Omen 2, for all it's sins, spread out and stretched the world of Nosgoth. This is the opportunity to see some of those areas.

Give it a chance, it might suprise you.

Hmmm perhaps you remember from the Eidos forum that I was among the first people who wanted to try it after hearing the argument that they JUST might make a sequel. I still live in that illusion that it's a possibility. But then I realizes "Hey, if they wanted to stay tru to the series they'd invite Simon". So my expectations for a proper sequel are very slim.
I also stated, because I played a lot of similar games, that it WILL be fun. But that's not the point. I can't get over the fact that this is what they came up with. Makes no friggin' sense to me and due to a fact that Square Enix does have a long history or destroying my favorite things the time came for this to happen.
What I find amusing is that people defend Nosgoth without realizing that nobody's attacking the game but the fact that this game isn't LoK. C'mon, not even a cameo. Not even a single character from LoK...So how can you be positive? :/
Can you blame me? Seriously can you blame anyone? Anyone say that Nosgoth does proper justice to the LoK? That's way too much to call it a truth.
Also the argument "it fits the lore" is old and overused and doesn't even apply to the problem of the devs decision, not whether or not it fits the lore. In fact, if it didn't fit the lore (just barely) not even I would play it.
But if I see more lies I might consider doing so, unfortunately. That's why I'm keeping a very close eye on this. For now it seems to me that the drama came to a point where people
a) gave up
b) want to try
c) hope for the sequel

I'm under b and c but there's no chance, in hell, i'm going to praise this and suggest to the people to play it. This is, as I see, necessary evil.

Alhazredd
26th Sep 2013, 19:23
What are you talking about, I'd buy that **** in an instant.
Jokes like that aren't funny