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susan
17th Jun 2006, 15:01
Anyone who's seen the illegal trailer by Core will have noticed it had different controls from Legend.

They looked like part old-style (3D) with some moves like you see in Legend:


Swinging around bars
Holding on the ledges with feet against the wall
Automatic grab, and so on.

And there were some completely new moves like dual aim with the pistols.

This version has been scrapped and Crystal has taken over. I just wondered what people felt about the controls. Legend style all the way...or a combination style like the Core version showed?? :confused:

Personally, I would like a mix. I think pure Legend controls could impede the gameplay style otherwise. Like longer jumps and more precise jumping are needed to get a real feel for the danger and excitement of the original.

Also, what about all the swimming bits of the originals? I thought the swimming controls in Legend were a step down from the old controls A bit of a drag to use frankly compared to the smooth and ease of the originals.

What does everyone think? :D

Treeble
17th Jun 2006, 17:08
I'd rather have them stick with Legend controls and add more, instead of changing it. :) I don't know how it will affect the gameplay itself, but I'm sure we can expect a few ledges to hop onto were normally a running jump would take Lara flying to the other side of the gap. :D

star girl
17th Jun 2006, 18:25
Bring back the "walk", "sprint" and "roll" please!!!! I'll do anything...... :rasp:

midroth
17th Jun 2006, 18:31
A "step to the left/right".

kksmith
17th Jun 2006, 18:44
They can change them a little, but overall I was very happy with Legend's control scheme.. with the exception of the "jump off a ladder/ledge towards a different direction" control which was spotty at best due to the camera system (and then, that is more of a camera system issue - but in the cases where the ledge can break, it was a pretty big issue when I couldn't jump the direction I intended in time).

I'm not sure I care if she can jump far or not. But getting off that grid system and the autograb I thought were great.

-Dizzy-
17th Jun 2006, 19:57
The trailer showed Lara walking, so I'm hoping that even with CD deevloping the game they keep something from the old game like that.

blincoln
17th Jun 2006, 22:29
Er? In what way is there no walking in Legend?

StarChampagne
18th Jun 2006, 13:12
Just a thought... with things like the dual aim with pistols, wasn't that move supposed to be included in Aod? (The strategy guide said it was, but Lara's twin guns didn't even feature in the game, implying it was at one point but was scrapped/didn't make the final cut.) So, maybe the new TR project was a chance for Core to redeem themselves and prove that Aod style could work, given much more time and tweaking? This quite random, but still. I wonder why it was taken away from Core... it will be very interesting to compare the two versions, and at the end of the day see who did better :rasp:

dufflover
18th Jun 2006, 13:25
Well right now I'm under the thought they have taken a lot of Legend feedback in; perhaps not from this board specifically but all the comments were all the same like length/control & difficulty settings, etc.

Perhaps it's too much faith or confidence in them but I reckon they will have both styles of controls included. Mind you if they stuck with one I would prefer Legend controls since I'm used to them now....not that I'll throw the game out the window or use it as a drinks coaster :rolleyes: ;) if it's original TR style.

uzigirl
19th Jun 2006, 17:20
I agree, let's stick with Legends controls and it will be a perfect game for me. :cool:

burt_ie
19th Jun 2006, 19:24
I quite liked the Legend controls. Just add a few more abilities like sprinting etc and it will be great!! :D

Joshorty
20th Jun 2006, 00:28
From the leaked video, it had a combo of both...but some other guy in another forum had a nice theory too...that it looked like CD and CD (I don't have to state which:rolleye: were both workin' together. (dont' gang up on me - I'm just sayin':D ). Anyways, Legends controls I do like a lot better but I also liked the original one. As long as they have a combo of both e.g. the jumps - with Legends on this upcoming game would get Lara no where:rasp:

Mangar The Dark
20th Jun 2006, 16:11
Er? In what way is there no walking in Legend?

I'm wondering that too. Granted, I only played the demo of Legend, but she can walk in that, and it looks pretty much the same as it always looked. Did that take that out of the final release?

kksmith
20th Jun 2006, 17:02
I'm wondering that too. Granted, I only played the demo of Legend, but she can walk in that, and it looks pretty much the same as it always looked. Did that take that out of the final release?

I believe they "forgot" or something. I think the very first patch added it back in.

susan
20th Jun 2006, 21:24
I never used the walk function on the PS2 although it is there.

I did find it quite hard to keep the analogue stick in the position where it makes her walk, it keeps slipping into full-on run. But I never found I needed to walk so didn't perservere with it.

When she walks in Legend she looks very odd, I thought, too. The animations don't seem right. I don't if anyone else thought this or just me. :D

Treeble
20th Jun 2006, 21:30
There are two 'levels' of walking, there's that sneak thingie which seemed bit odd to me yes, and there's the actual walk which I thought to be very... sexy. :D On the demo footage that plays if you leave the game stopped on the main menu you can see her walking through Ghana.:cool:

kksmith
20th Jun 2006, 21:33
Yeah I've never had the need to use either sneak or walk. Not even sure what keys they are bound to (though I suppose SHIFT for one of them).

But what exactly is the purpose of sneak? I mean, I can *run* up to a mercenary who is looking the other way and he won't see me until I kick him in the groin. So I'm not really sure what the point is there.

pot
21st Jun 2006, 18:38
Bring back the "walk", "sprint" and "roll" please!!!! I'll do anything...... :rasp:

I'll second that, Legends control are a complete and utter muck up. I nearly threw my PSP at a wall this morning.

The walk feature in the original TR was for the purpose of aligning Lara to the edge of a block, for a quick tap back on the down button and she's ready for a perfect and repeatable running jump. As for Legend.....:nut: :scratch: :nut: :scratch: :mad: :mad2:

Joshorty
22nd Jun 2006, 03:08
I just bought my copy today!:D and yeah..the controls for PSP seems to "pressured" - wasn't made exactly for the PSP...unless it had at least the right analog stick, things would do but still enjoyin' it:D I'm still awed by the fact I'm playing the exact same game as the console!! (other then the controls) this was WAY better then a port like KING KONG-_-, which was my first PSP game...

Mangar The Dark
23rd Jun 2006, 18:46
When she walks in Legend she looks very odd, I thought, too. The animations don't seem right. I don't if anyone else thought this or just me. :D

On the Xbox version (well, the demo, at least), it looks pretty much the same as it always looked. Of course, as others have already pointed out, there are two "levels" of walking. If you push the stick forward just very slightly, she sneaks. Push it a little further, she walks normally. Push it even further, she runs.

winston
25th Jun 2006, 20:42
I liked the look of the controls in the trailer, a mixture of old and new.

I liked the dual aim idea, also the climbing on the steps:thumbsup:
I agree the swimming should be smoother, absolutely. I hated the swimming bits in Legend.

I think they should keep the bar swinging, i thought it was very acrobatic and cool :D

Edit:
Bring back the "walk", "sprint" and "roll" please!!!! I'll do anything...... :rasp:
Absolutely, agree 100%!!!

Deckard
27th Jun 2006, 23:03
Xbox and PS always had the possibility to make Lara walk, just the PC version was initially left without :scratch: . Crystal Design probably just forgot to implement it :confused: . They now fixed this with patch 1.2 - they created a possibility to assign a key for "walk" and now ... everything is fine on PC as well :D :D :D . I'm easy to please, ain't I? :p

After some re-assigning and getting accustomed to them I'm now quite happy with Legend's controls for PC. Just "quite happy" bc IMO they lack the fast, almost immediate response of former TR's (AOD not included). Everything else can be configured. BTW: on Stella's there's a very poignant and (IMO) well put mini-review about Legend and it's controls.

What I don't understand are the people going "WTH is the walk button for?" - hey, even if it's there YOU don't have to use it. Just keep jogging through the levels, probably it's good for your health. But personally I prefer a more dignified pace ... well, let's call it like that anyway :whistle:

susan
28th Jun 2006, 07:00
What I don't understand are the people going "WTH is the walk button for?" - hey, even if it's there YOU don't have to use it. Just keep jogging through the levels, probably it's good for your health. But personally I prefer a more dignified pace ... well, let's call it like that anyway :whistle:Me too Deckard, I definitely prefer the slower pace of walking around. And I too would prefer an actual walk "button" for control purposes.

However, whereas I found the older games encouraged a careful pace - because of the constant threat of death (things jumping out all the time, falling off ledges, triggering traps) and the need to study an area in close detail (to find items or the path through)...In Legend most of the time it seemed unnecessary.

I still think they should have a walk button though just in case you want to take in the scenery and be more dignified. :D

kksmith
28th Jun 2006, 13:41
What I don't understand are the people going "WTH is the walk button for?" - hey, even if it's there YOU don't have to use it. Just keep jogging through the levels, probably it's good for your health. But personally I prefer a more dignified pace ... well, let's call it like that anyway

I'm not saying they need to take the walk button out or anything. If people want to use it, that's fine with me. The only thing I was saying, was that I never needed to use it once during the game. The gameplay never really makes it necessary. So I found it kind of pointless. It's not like some of the past games where you had to use it to line Lara up exactly perfect to make every jump or you died :P

But if you like it, more power to you :P

Joshorty
28th Jun 2006, 14:58
I use it and like it:D say...does the sneak thing really work:confused: 'cause enemies would always notice me right away:scratch:

Deckard
28th Jun 2006, 19:04
Indeed, in Legend the walk button isn't "needed". With the "last chance grab" and "jump anywhere - you won't miss" functions of Legend the strict necessity of walking has become just an add-on function. I admit I hadn't thought of that ... :o . It's true: the walking pace "just" helps searching areas thoroughly and enjoy the really beautiful environments. Oh ... and getting mad at why you can't for just one moment leave the pre-defined path of the storyline and do some real exploring :( .

Personally I would gladly trade in these simplifications and have the old style, high precison jumps back :D . Towards the end of old-school TR's we were able to estimate at a glance whether a jump was possible or not ;) . Suceeding in those jumps really gave a sense of accomplishment :cool: .

Joshorty
29th Jun 2006, 01:11
I wouldn't mind if the 10th Anniversary dealt with the original controls - despite its badness (yet I "mastered it":D ). O!:eek: :D Maybe they can have an option in where you can play the game with the CLASSIC CONTROLS or LEGEND CONTROLS:D As 10th Anniversary Edition, this should be a good add-on to the game. I'm gonna bring this up to a thread where Crystal Dynamics might see this idea:D

Mangar The Dark
29th Jun 2006, 16:43
Overall, I think Legend's controls are more fun than the old ones (even though I did quite well with the old ones.) But an option to choose controls would be a good solution.

Of course, you realize, Eidos is probably looking at these threads and thinking, "Oh, dear God!! These people want new levels, complete remakes, adaptable controls.... sheesh!!! They'll be so disappointed when they find out that the 10th Anniversary is just a rerelease of the original game with a bonus disc of Lara clip art!")

Robert4lara11
14th Jul 2006, 19:49
Just make the conrols just like 3 and put some of Legend moves in and definatly sprint PLEASE

gervas
10th Aug 2006, 15:56
OLD CONTROLS all the way...they were dificult for noobs, but for seasoned players the were extremely natural...i don't like to play TR knowing that a noob can beat the game as easily as i...whats the fun of being a seasoned player if a guy who never finished The last Revelation or even Tomb raider3 can play the game and end it without dificulty?

what i loved of the old controls was their simple complexity and naturality and the fact that you had to actually train to play nicely...TR was not supposed to be played by noobs...i hate the new controls...they suck big time..if i wanted to play Prince of Persia i would go and actually play POP...i want to play TR...to have to syncronise my dash to get pass door B, or to metodically calculate my jumps so as no to fall to the abyss...i want old TR back...even AOD with all its flaws was better more dificult than this...make CORE do more TR and don't destroy TR please...

Laraman
10th Aug 2006, 17:38
The walk/sneak buttons are used to test what ledges you can last-chance grab. Get up to the waterfall in Bolivia (where the boulder is) and walk to the edge of the waterfall, Lara will stop herself from falling. If you run, she won't turn and grab.

As for the controls, I like them. Altho' I'd prefer having a bigger - and better - choice of controls :)

Mangar The Dark
10th Aug 2006, 19:22
what i loved of the old controls was their simple complexity and naturality and the fact that you had to actually train to play nicely...


Hmmm... isn't that a contradiction? How natural could they be if you had to train to play properly? Natural controls are controls that feel intuitive.



TR was not supposed to be played by noobs...

I think you found the old controls more difficult than I did. I really didn't need to train to use them, so I guess to me, they were natural (and I was a "noob" when I first played, but I completed the game anyway, without any walkthroughs.) But, in spite of the fact that I thought the controls were easy, I also felt they were too stiff for this sort of game. The thing I liked about Legend's controls was that they were more fluid. Also, they allowed the gamer to focus on the adventure, not on lining up at precise angles to complete jumps.
But really, I guess I'd be okay with either the old or new controls.

dulcetpurr
10th Aug 2006, 21:37
Hmmm... isn't that a contradiction?

If that isn't, then "simple complexity" certainly is! :lol:


The thing I liked about Legend's controls was that they were more fluid. Also, they allowed the gamer to focus on the adventure, not on lining up at precise angles to complete jumps.


I second this. One thing about the orginal games was the stiff jerkiness of the controls. You had to run a little bit, turn in a boxy way, run some more, then turn again to position Lara correctly for whatever it was you wanted her to do. Sometimes, especially during timed runs and such, this was problematic on my Playstation, because I couldn't keep Lara running fluidly, I'd have to stop and turn her.

I'd like the anniv. ed. to keep Legend controls. I wouldn't mind a few things returning, like Sprint or Crouch.

gervas
11th Aug 2006, 00:11
a seasoned player in a pc can do almost everyjump without having to stop and relocate and retry the run for the jump...in pc the old system is way better...it might be stiff, and not too fluid...but too fluid like in TRL is bad too, cuz i want to play, not see a graphic novel, in wich i only have to press some button once in a while....i loved the necessity to push various buttons at the same(often many) to get things done...playing TR with a gamepad to me should be forbidden..i tryed, and even endend 1 and 2 with it, but nothing replaces e keyboard...

shurik
3rd Sep 2006, 03:26
I don't know, I guess I would want the latest controls from TR Legend. It would be to confusing if they would make it way different, cause when you would go back to the latest version, you would have to get use to them again.
I liked the Legend controls, but if there need a slightly change and some inprovement then that would be alright I guess. ;)

Rose662
16th Sep 2006, 17:31
I hope that they will have decent controls for us PC users. NOT THE CONTROLS LIKE LEGEND, PLEASE!

If we cannot control Lara (as in Legend), then why buy the game AND a controller just so you can play?! Many of us are not rich. Therefore, we will not bother to buy a game we cannot play.

AOD (and all the previous TRs) is a breeze because I can control Lara. :)
The Legend demo was a nightmare because with the PC controls I could not control her and that is not fun.:mad:

Please think of us PC users and have decent PC keyboard controls. Thanks.

Raider0011
16th Sep 2006, 21:02
I would personally prefer the Legend controls with some tweeks.

1) I would like a sprint button.

2) The camera needs to be worked on for some of the jumps (Particularly off a wall or ledge).

3) I would like the return of long jumps, etc., but it would need to be handled differently than the old controls, as the controls are no longer on the grid.

4) I would like the swimming controls from the older TR games. The swimming controls in Legend were a bit clunky.

5) I want it all on XBox 360... :)

hzh_online
21st Sep 2006, 14:42
The controlls for Tomb Raider 1-6 weren't the best, but, by God, they were better than Legends!

Terminatorvs
21st Sep 2006, 22:25
I still don't understand, what's so bad about TRL controls. They're very easy to learn and master. I am a seasoned player myself - completed all TR games except "The Dagger of Xian". I'm still pretty good with the old control system. But "Legend's" controls are a lot more dynamic. I doubt, that CDs will go back to the old controls because of the old-timers (that is us :) ). They don't want to lose the audience - the new TR gamers. Besides, think about one more thing. Lara is fast, right? She's energetic and agile, right? In "Legend" she uses her unmatched grace and speed to fight multiple opponents. I can't remember her doing the same in the previous TRs. Look, we all play different games, first person shooters, fightings, etc. In the games we can take out a dozen enemyes with a gun or a sword. What do we do to avoid damage? We don't have bulletproof vests. We dodge. Tell me, are Max Payne, Rid****, Gordon Freeman or the prince of Persia more agile than Lara? Well, they certainly get hit less than her (in TR 1-6). That has changed in "Legend". TR is now more (I don't know) comfortable to play.

Chris Daly
22nd Sep 2006, 13:50
Old controls please,

I think TR1 controls whilst they were a bit clunky
were very easy and intuitive to use, however TR3-5 I think were the
very best , I liked Laras somersault thing in TR5.

OLD CONTROLS PLEASE !!!! For Tomb Raider Anniversary Edition
If they are like Legend .. Yuk and I don't want to have to wait for the
20th edition

voltz
29th Oct 2006, 00:27
I don't plan to play any future Tomb Raiders with the grid system as it has no place in today's world. Crystal can just add some of the old moves back and do what they can to refine the current system so that it meets everybody's standards.

voltz
29th Oct 2006, 00:36
I would personally prefer the Legend controls with some tweeks.

1) I would like a sprint button.

I hear ya on this. Worst case they sacrifice grapple for it, but I'd rather they just merge it with use instead.


5) I want it all on XBox 360... :)

Not exclusively you don't! I plan on having that outdated in 2-5 years anyway. (pc user) :rasp:

aussie500
29th Oct 2006, 03:02
l found the controls used in legend just fine, and l would have thought people would have learned from AOD not to judge what the controls for a game would be like unless they had actually played it. Yes the leaked trailer looked good, but l do not remember much being said about the control system, and you cannot judge how responsive a control system would be until actually seeing in game footage, which the trailer was not

Joshorty
29th Oct 2006, 03:29
The Legend controls were fine with me - I'm just worried about long jumps for her 'cause she'd never make it as far as the old Lara we all know.

And also the walking controls..as for the consoles, using the stick was kind of hard to have her walk - I know this is kinda pointless but I like to see Lara walk and move the camera at the same time:D

All I gotta say is that they gotta mix the controls from the old and new Lara.

Zelda Master
29th Oct 2006, 11:29
legend controls less how do you day that...:lol:
i cant remember just tweak the Legend controls abit more in the was the 2-5 controls were:D

Terminatorvs
31st Oct 2006, 20:12
I hope they don't make Lara a long jumper - that won't fit in the level design. Long jumps were only suitable for the grid system. In "AoD" when I had to make Lara jump on a small platform, I usually didn't get it from the first go. It was either flying over it when performing a regular jump, or not making it to the platform, when using the hopping.

ditom
31st Oct 2006, 20:49
I think Legend controls is a good idea in 10th Anniversary.

SquadraCorse
25th Nov 2006, 09:08
I just finished Legend - it took me a while because I kept having to set the game aside when I would get too frustrated with the camera/controls. It's not that I didn't like having the ability to look around at times, it's that I HATED not being able to lock the camera behind Lara during most of the combat, jumping and vehicle sequences. This frustrated my wife so much she never finished the game. (She has finished all the others including the gold levels and over a thousand user made levels.) How hard would it have been for them to have added a 'Look' button that toggled having the camera locked behind Lara on/off each time it was pressed??? Adding this feature would have allowed those of us who prefer the classic TR or WASD controls to have enjoyed the game much more without taking anything away from the people who prefer the new camera style. There's just no good reason both groups can't be happy so I really hope they'll add something like this to TR Anniversery.

SC

Joshorty
25th Nov 2006, 17:24
You should speak out in this thread (http://www.tombraiderforums.com/showthread.php?t=79094):DIf you're a member of the forum already that is but you can register anytime if not.

Terminatorvs
28th Nov 2006, 20:36
The reason, why old "TR" controls had to go, in my opinion, is because they were not suited for a non-tomb-raider gamer - you had to complete at least two "TR" games to get used to them. This is also the reason, why there are no (or very little) games with the same control scheme (I can't think of any other except "TR" itself). Even the developers don't want to make games with "TR" controls. What I'm trying to say is that only true fans are capable of playing the old "TRs" without complaining. Ask any other gamer who hasn't ever played "TR" to play it. He'll quit in several minutes and will play "PoP" from anew.

Dragu Slave
28th Nov 2006, 20:53
I loved Legend's controls and gameplay, but there are some modifications which need fixing. Especially the gunplay and gun posture.

It' stupid when Lara points all the time when she has her guns drawn. Looks like a GBA game. I prefer the old fighting system with crazy twisted jumps, etc... and of course the dual aiming :D

In Legend fighting was very frustrating, and not just because you were attacked by a zillion mercs simultaneously, but also because changing target was impossible. Lose the crosshair too.

Lose the grapple, it was annoying as hell. Keep the PLS and do not introduce the Flares back. I hate them, especially when one runs out in mid-air and Lara doesn't grab the ledge cause she's too busy throwing it away.

Also, bring back the ring inventory but keep the mini menu as well. Make it adjustable, like let us set up our own buttons for it. Kinda like short cut buttons.

Joshorty
28th Nov 2006, 22:26
Well the grapple is already been said that it's ther but now I think it's more like a "rope":D

And the inventory system is back to the original ring-magigg menu:D So no need to worry.

Well in Legend, I did enjoy the combat - I make my own moves:D combining flips and jumps and sick camera angles and all that thrill:DI even continue the slow-mo after jumping on the enemy to the ground and continue on and on until I can't keep up no more.

SquadraCorse
5th Dec 2006, 09:01
I have to disagree Terminatorvs,

If they had locked the camera behind Lara, the controls in TRL would have been very similar to almost every MMORPG out there - including WOW with it's 7 million plus players. I don't think people would have had a hard time with it at all.

IMHO, the difficulty in playing TR on the PC was the lack of mouse-look, not the WASD implentation.

SC