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View Full Version : The early Tomb Raiders are something else!



shaahinkaaveh
13th Jun 2006, 17:58
I'm one of Tomb Raider-lovers, but I love Tomb Raider mainly because of great Puzzles: It impresses me to be in the heart of those fantastic, mythical, 3d puzzles, which you are part of it when solving it. :) I guess also many people enjoy the difficulty of the game. :scratch:

But it seems that things are changed: Tomb Raider: The Angel of Darkness had only a few real chanllenging problems and mythical aspects. on the other hand Tomb Raider: Legend (although brilliant) is full of tips; especially those talkative boys: Whenever it's going to be tricky they ruin the whole puzzle with their silly hints. I am seriously against it. :mad:
Don't you feel that the first 4 or 5 versions were something else?

What is your opinion?

Treeble
13th Jun 2006, 18:19
The first two and TLR, yes. TR3 was a shooter around the world and TRC was too short (nice game nevertheless). AOD doesn't even deserve "TR" on it's abbreviation - enough said. :p

Straw Dog
13th Jun 2006, 20:49
The first two and TLR, yes. TR3 was a shooter around the world

:eek: do what now?

Isn't it a commonly known thing that TR2 was waaay too combat heavy? it was the main criticism aimed at it by players and reviewers alike. I thought that was common knowledge by now, though personally I felt it was pretty much a perfect TR game. Whilst TR3 I recently (3 weeks ago) completed for about the fourth time and overall it has far less shooting than TR2 and is incredibly challenging on the puzzle stakes. As one example The Lost City of Tinnos is one huge complex multi levelled chamber of deathtrap puzzles.

Treeble
13th Jun 2006, 20:57
But I think the gameplay was far more interesting in TR2 than it was in TR3. We could spend days debating this, of course, but to me TR3 was anything but interesting. It felt like it was never going to end. I liked a bit of the Nevada and a bit of the Antarctica levels, though I think there were too many jungles and the London levels were boring and repetitive.

Straw Dog
13th Jun 2006, 21:24
But I think the gameplay was far more interesting in TR2 than it was in TR3. We could spend days debating this, of course.

Indeed, tis all subjective. I didn't think there was much between em meself. I loved them both as much as each other.

...and I'm right and everyone else is wrong...:rasp:

Darkness_65
14th Jun 2006, 00:32
Congrats, Treeble and Straw Dog! Very quickly debate, and a very elegant solved one. In the end, in some way or another, we all love Tomb Raider.:thumbsup:

Joshorty
14th Jun 2006, 00:40
on the other hand Tomb Raider: Legend (although brilliant) is full of tips; especially those talkative boys: Whenever it's going to be tricky they ruin the whole puzzle with their silly hints. I am seriously against it. :mad:

That's why I experimented another run of the game, goin' to options and removing the VOICE VOLUME and the MUSIC VOLUME (not that the score's bad of course- I just had to try it without constant music like TOMB RAIDER...) yet the music, which I'm glad about, still comes in cutscenes. So far...I think it's pretty cool doin' that:)

susan
14th Jun 2006, 17:17
I'm one of Tomb Raider-lovers, but I love Tomb Raider mainly because of great Puzzles: It impresses me to be in the heart of those fantastic, mythical, 3d puzzles, which you are part of it when solving it. :) I guess also many people enjoy the difficulty of the game. :scratch:

But it seems that things are changed: Tomb Raider: The Angel of Darkness had only a few real chanllenging problems and mythical aspects. on the other hand Tomb Raider: Legend (although brilliant) is full of tips; especially those talkative boys: Whenever it's going to be tricky they ruin the whole puzzle with their silly hints. I am seriously against it. :mad:
Don't you feel that the first 4 or 5 versions were something else?

What is your opinion?Hehe, so say we all!! Well quite a few people seem to anyway. :) Have a look around you'll see there's quite a debate.

dufflover
15th Jun 2006, 02:24
I'll just say that I have an unusual amount of faith in them to get much more of a balance and fix up all the stuff in the ratings/suggestions stickies.

shaahinkaaveh
16th Jun 2006, 07:22
Legend is ok i guess if you are new to Tomb Raider but for alot of Tomb Raider fans Legend just is not what it should be. Puzzling, scary in some parts, mysterious, hidden pickups (or save crystals like in TR3 for PS).
I was slightly disappointed with Legend. It is just too easy in my opinion.
Newcomers maybe not agree..

That's a very important point: I imagine for a while: What would my judgement about TR-L be, when I supposedly knew nothing from TR and had played no such game? The answer is I would get truely crazy about it ! If we are unsatisfied, it's because we have expectations, we have the other installments in our memories.

I have a sad theory: When they published the first version, it wasn't obvious at all, wether it would be successful or not. It means they didn't care about money so much. It was what it was: seemingly Lara told you to go to hell if your taste was different. Only those who enjoy being in dilemma welcome! This pride made it (and her! ;) ) lovely.
But now it seems that they just want to sell. So what would most of people love? Blood, speed, and sex; and it is possible that getting stuck bothers some of them (bet we want all of them to buy it).

Is it like that?

aussie500
16th Jun 2006, 07:32
The first Tomb Raider game was actually quite groundbreaking in its day, was an instant success. It was just as important back then that the game was a success. With Legend they wanted to make an absolutely breathtaking Tomb Raider game, which it was good to look at. But yes they also had to guarantee that this first game would be a complete success financially, which is one reason why it was shortened l think. They needed to revive the Tomb Raider franchise, in order to ensure it would continue. Hopefully they will gradually increase the length of the games as they make them. Unfortunately l do not think the new Tomb Raider games will ever be as challenging as the old ones, because yes, Eidos is ruled by the number crunchers these days, they do not want to frighten to many people away by making the game even moderately challenging

Straw Dog
16th Jun 2006, 08:18
Unfortunately l do not think the new Tomb Raider games will ever be as challenging as the old ones, because yes, Eidos is ruled by the number crunchers these days, they do not want to frighten to many people away by making the game even moderately challenging

Which if true is a rather bizarre turn of events for TR indeed as the complexity, challenge, depth and length of the original TR games are the main reason for its enormous fanbase. I'd be shocked if this truly was the Eidos boardroom meeting conclusion as its not as if the challenge level of the old TR games wasn't working, any number-crunching accountant could have figured that out.

Maybe its just a sad result of such a long running franchise. Its original fanbase are all older now so the franchise has to consider them along with the newcomers to gaming, who aswell as being considerably younger than the original fanbase of 10 years ago are possibly being percieved by the developers as not up to the challenge of the old style TR gaming. Personally I think they're underestimating the young uns. I've read far too many posts by people saying their 10 year old son blazed through TRL in 6 hours, and I can well believe it.

aussie500
16th Jun 2006, 10:36
I do not really think it is the young ones that have the problem so much as the large amount of people who are not serious gamers, but just want to play for fun. Considering the lack of challenge in Legend, there are a large number of people who had trouble completing it, or just plain did not want to do the work, just play with the rewards. And there are hundreds if not more who never ask on the forums for every one that does. Eidos wants to draw these people into playing Tomb Raider, and it does seem to have worked, but they do not want to frighten of their new found Tomb Raider fans by making the games to hard. l think we are going to be stuck with the hints, shiny object etc. Hopefully in the next one they will put a bit more in for the old Tomb Raider fans, but still leave a direct easy path for the newbies who struggle. Obviously when Tomb Raider first came out there was not so much competition, gaming had just left the dark ages so to speak, and Lara Croft could do no wrong, she was just to good. These days there are thousands of games to choose from in every flavour imaginable, puzzle, adventure, shooter, strategy you want it you can buy it. Although we would buy a Tomb raider game done in the old style, it seems we are becoming a minority group, they will not make the games solely to please us any more:mad:

Straw Dog
16th Jun 2006, 12:44
Nooooo, the curse of the casual gamer. Infecting the gaming marketplace like an ebola outbreak. Why can't they all just keep playing Tekken and Burnout? Adventure gaming and casual 'five minute attention span' gamers don't go well together.

disclaimer: I mean the above to be fairly tongue in cheek but mr Aussie500 does make a good point. So, to summarise: :rasp:

aussie500
16th Jun 2006, 13:00
Its Miss aussie500 :whistle:

Straw Dog
16th Jun 2006, 13:47
:lol: my mistake ma'am. Straw dog tips hat in general direction of MISS aussie500