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Lionheat
16th May 2006, 21:54
I just read a review of Hitman Blood Money in my latest Xbox Magazine. They said you can not do saves until the end of a mission.

I love the Hitman games but I won't buy the game if this is true. There is nothing I hate more than replaying a mission because I did not have time to get to the end. Why did they do this????:mad2: :mad2: :mad2:

Freddo
17th May 2006, 21:00
Why did they do this????:mad2: :mad2: :mad2:
They didn't.

The review also says that you can do some mid-mission, checkpoint-like saves, but that they are trashed if you stop playing so they are only temporary.

Lionheat
17th May 2006, 22:12
They didn't.

The review also says that you can do some mid-mission, checkpoint-like saves, but that they are trashed if you stop playing so they are only temporary.

I did not explain myself clearly. The mid-mission checkpoint-like saves that are trashed if you stop playing and are only temporary are inadequate. If I am into a mission and then have to "live life" outside of the Hitman world and then have to restart the mission from the begining - my enjoyment level of the game will drop to the point where I won't even want to start playing. I am an adult with a wife and child - when I play a game I only get about an hour or two at a sitting. Too bad they didn't talk to guys like me about what we want.

I am currently playing Sniper Elite and I am satisfied with thier save system. You have a limited number of saves per mission. It also allows you to experiment with different strategies from a save point that you can go back to.

mikew
20th May 2006, 00:06
I am so happy to read this forum before buying this game. I will absolutely not buy any game where i can not save my progress and exit the game. I am an adult with a family and often can only play for a limited time. I loved the last 2 games, and am very disappointed in this choice by the designers. Unless changed, I will not buy this game.

LCisYum
20th May 2006, 04:09
Man this sucks. Why can't they make save game points any where during gameplay?

neofit
20th May 2006, 16:52
It's been some time since I stopped buying games that don't allow me to save anywhere anytime. Hated that once, hated that twice, there is no point in trying further. Now this goes even beyond the checkpoint system. Too bad, might have been a fun game. Repetition is not the proper way to make a short game look longer. Flame as much as you want, but options for different save systems never lost sales while strong limitations do.

martin88
20th May 2006, 18:56
This thread is the funniest thing ever.

You people have found the worst reason ever for not buying a game.

mikew
20th May 2006, 21:58
How is my not buying a game funny? I don't think it is funny and I doubt the game publisher or developers will think it is funny. I spend many hours on each mission of these games. I simply do not have hours at one time to spend on a game. I am an adult with a family and other responsibilites. I absolutely hate to be forced to replay previous material due to ridiculous 'forced' game mechanics like 'no persistant save games'. So, I will not buy this game unless it is patched to provide a real in mission save game.

rob444
21st May 2006, 16:46
Yeah I was pretty surprised when my save games weren't there next time I started the game.. Yeah it sucks really but not a big deal.

Lionheat
22nd May 2006, 20:53
This thread is the funniest thing ever.

You people have found the worst reason ever for not buying a game.

There are too many good games on the market to be forced to put up with poor design in any aspect of this or any game. I wanted to support the Hitman series and buy a copy of the game at full retail (lately I buy used games) because I love the concept and enjoyed the story line in Silent Assassin and wanted the series to continue. I was hopeful that someone would say the Xbox Mag review was wrong or that Eidos would fix the save system. I guess it was false hope.

oliverm
30th May 2006, 16:23
+1.

I'm taking my copy back, because I have to either choose between leaving my xbox360 on all the time (which is a very noisey indeed, and which annoys my misses) or I have to start each level each time i want to play the game. That means that, even if you get 98% through a level and then, say, have to go out (coz we aren't all 18 year old students who have nothing else in our lives) I have to start all over again.

Quite why this has been done, i dont know. I can't think of a reason WHY you shouldn't be able to havce saved games that survive a reset. I dont see how it would make the game any easier or spoil my game play, and i think a lazy developer somewhere has used a lack of permanent saved games as a way to make the game "harder". Unfortunately it just makes the game more annoying.

DucusSumus
30th May 2006, 16:58
Saves are supposed to be temporary to make the game more challenging. I think that at the easier difficulty settings, they should have changed this, but I also think that you really suck if it takes you hours to complete one mission. You should be able to complete a mission in one sitting. If an hour has elapsed and you have not either failed or completed the mission then you are moving entirely too slowly. If you fail, then stop playing for a while, come back to it later, and use a different approach to try and complete the mission. Personally, I think that the game is most fun on the "Pro" difficulty setting where there are no saves at all.

Also, stop crying on the forums about video games taking up too much of your precious time. If you can't find time in your life for video games, then by all means, don't. Like you've said, there are more important things... but no one wants to hear about what those things are for you.

oliverm
30th May 2006, 17:17
ok, so you're saying that if i haven't finished each mission in a pre-determined period of time then I shouldn't be playing the game? Even though I'm not made aware by the developer what that period of time is ? And lets just confirm, you are also saying that only people who are any good at playing Hitman Blood Money should play Hitman Blood Money ? And exactly how is one to become any good at HitMan Blood Money without playing it?

Given that your posting is total nonsense, and written with all the vigor and skill of a pre-school child, and that you confirm you don't have any other commitments in your life, I would imagine that you life at home with your parents, and are clearly either a young child with limited mental skills, or an adult who has yet to get a life and leave his mothers bossom.

Do you parents know you are using their computer ?

Thanks for the brilliant feedback. In the future please make sure that you keep it for the fridge magnets at play-school.

Olly

Quillan
30th May 2006, 17:24
It doesn't work that way for adults, Ducus. Life interferes. There's no guarantee you'll be able to play for 15 minutes straight without an interruption, especially if you have kids. I have none of my own, but several friends of mine do, and I know what it's like. Say I go over to a friends house to watch a movie. In the two hours it takes to watch the movie, his kids interrupt him at least 5 times, and most of it falls into the "pay attention to me" category. Accidents are going to happen. Emergencies are going to happen. You get phone calls. The alarm goes off at work. Someone you know gets in a wreck and you have to go to the hospital. You get called out at your job. Wanting the ability to make a hard save so that you can pick up at the same point later is a reasonable request.

Alexlovesguns
30th May 2006, 17:30
You people are crazy, "im not buying the game because..." Well, its your loss really because Hitman Blood Money is the best Hitman game and one of the best games ever imo. That kind of attitude can only come from a "casual" gamer...

On the PC if you really must leave and dont want to loose your progress you can tab out of the game, go into the saves folder and copy the save to your desktop.


I'm taking my copy back, because I have to either choose between leaving my xbox360 on all the time (which is a very noisey indeed, and which annoys my misses)

Thats just embarassing man :lol: .

oliverm
30th May 2006, 17:33
Yep, that kind of attitude does come from a casual gamer.

And what of it ? Why shouldnt a casual gamer have valid opinions on the game ?

For what its worth, while I may be a casual gamer, I have worked in the game industry on and off for over 10 years, from game tester to project manager. All the more reason why it's so annoying to sit down to play what clearly is a good game, and needlessly have to repeat parts that i've already sucessfully completed.

Witchhunter
30th May 2006, 17:47
I have to agree the save system is a pretty poor attempt. I like to play 1-2 hour sittings of games rather than play for hours at a time, mainly due to work and life in general.

But now, with HM-BM, I have to make sure there is time to play...not fun ****

oliverm
30th May 2006, 17:51
yeah, exactly, and that really means only weekends :S

I have to repeat though, that Im NOT trying to slag off the game. I think HM:BM is absolutely brilliant. It harks back to the best of 80's plaform/rpg with great elements of puzzle solving and timing. At first I hated that you couldn't control the jumping etc, but after a few hours it's easy to see that they want you to think about the environment and the people and the witness, and not just the timing of jumping.

Just sucks that I can't save the game and come back to it.

Alexlovesguns
30th May 2006, 17:52
Yep, that kind of attitude does come from a casual gamer.

And what of it ? Why shouldnt a casual gamer have valid opinions on the game ?

For what its worth, while I may be a casual gamer, I have worked in the game industry on and off for over 10 years, from game tester to project manager. All the more reason why it's so annoying to sit down to play what clearly is a good game, and needlessly have to repeat parts that i've already sucessfully completed.


I can understand why the save feature can be anoying and give you enough reason for complaining, but its not enough arguement to just take the game back imo, i know its hard to conciliate gaming with (real) life, i face that problem too (im still on the 2nd mission).
On the bright side you will have months of gameplay out of this game :D .

DucusSumus
30th May 2006, 17:53
I think that at the easier difficulty settings, they should have changed this [...]
There is a fair amount of trolling in my previous post (thanks for biting, oliverm), but like I said, I agree that hard saves should have been implemented. It doesn't really make sense not to give the players this option.

If my life were so busy that I couldn't sit down for an hour to play a game occasionally, I probably wouldn't play games. To me, playing a mission in a game such as Hitman halfway and coming back to finish it later just isn't that fun. But not everyone feels that way, which is why I believe that IOI should have included an option to make hard saves.

Oh and Quillan, I am an adult. But thanks for letting me know how things work. I experience short interruptions while playing games too, and, just like a movie, I can pause the game.

Witchhunter
30th May 2006, 18:03
I also have to say HM-BM is one of the best games I've played in a looooooooooooooong time. My only complaints are the save system (even on pro l want the choice to exit the game and come back later) and the lack of leaning! Why take leaning out? Thats not progress thats going backwards in development. :scratch:

Xcom
30th May 2006, 18:07
Why take leaning out?

What practical use is there for leaning? Camera angle allows you to view around the corners anyway.

DucusSumus
30th May 2006, 18:10
I also have to say HM-BM is one of the best games I've played in a looooooooooooooong time. My only complaints are the save system (even on pro l want the choice to exit the game and come back later) and the lack of leaning! Why take leaning out? Thats not progress thats going backwards in development. :scratch:
It really is a great game.

I can see what your saying with leaving the game and coming back, but people could just abuse that system and use it as a save. Since they are making an online ranking system, this really isn't a good idea.

You're not the first person I've heard complain about the removal of the leaning feature. I'm curious though. When did you use leaning in the previous Hitman games? The game a has a third person perspective, so I never found leaning to be at all useful. I was glad that they removed this seemingly superfluous feature, but perhaps I am simply oblivious to its potential usefulness.

Witchhunter
30th May 2006, 19:39
You're not the first person I've heard complain about the removal of the leaning feature. I'm curious though. When did you use leaning in the previous Hitman games? The game a has a third person perspective, so I never found leaning to be at all useful. I was glad that they removed this seemingly superfluous feature, but perhaps I am simply oblvious to its potential usefulness.

I'm one of the weirdos who have always played HM in first person :D I've never liked a third person perspective. Lack of leaning isn't going to kill the game for me but it would have been nice as an option since its been in previous HM games.

95155305
30th May 2006, 23:32
I think it's a shame to have so many people put off by this and I think there are valid resons for both sides of the arguement. I have to say that I personally find replaying the missions over and over part of the fun, constantly trying and re-trying every little aspect of each mission. once you figure out a mission it can be easily done in a matter of minutes.

Ultimately it is a design decision, albeit an arguably bad one, and one that is intended to increase the tention in a game. The idea being that if you can save easily at any point in the game there is no fear factor in the risks you take where as if you have only limited saves you have the chance of making a decision that will cost you in the form of time.
The decicion to wipe the saves when you leave the game is a new and odd one but if you have played through a mission successfully to a point, however, it should not be difficult to repeat your actions and get back to that point.

I have had trouble with the saves due to the fact my game has now started to crach meaning I have been repeatedly being playing the exact 3mins of a mission over and over, this is frustrating.

The origional Hitman game had no mid mission saving and was a more challenging game for it, but conversly it was a less popular one, the good news is thay later patched it and added in mid mission saves. Hitman BM is a great game and it would be a shame if you all missed out on it because of this questionable design decision but I would say this, Make sure IOI hear your comments and I am quite confident that in time and with enough persuasion they will come to an agreeble solution. After all it's not in a developer's best interest to ignore its coustomers.:)

Witchhunter
31st May 2006, 00:05
I think there's far more tension lost when you find you have to exit the game to go do something and then replay the mission all over again. In comparison to being able to just save it, go do what you need to do in the real world and then come back to the saved point.

I'm up for slightly tension if it means less frustration. I don't see how anyone can complain this is a bad idea, if they don't like it then all they have to do is play the game without exiting...simple.

Lionheat
31st May 2006, 23:07
I don't see how anyone can complain this is a bad idea, if they don't like it then all they have to do is play the game without exiting...simple.

I remember playing video games in the Arcades during the '80's, often between classes in college. For those not as old, you would put in your quarters and play until you beat the game, lost all of your lives or ran out of time. When you got really good at a game, you could play most of it with your eyes closed until you got to a part you had not mastered. If you got carless early, you got screwed. It did not add fun, suspence, etc, it just made you want to throw the machine through a window. That was over 30 years ago. Now we are in the 21st century and it is basically the SOS.

Some of you young pups need to show some respect for OG's (original gamers), as should EIDOS.

I am going to suck it up and buy the game at full retail to support the Hitman series because I want it to continue. I just hope EIDOS is listening. This will be the last game I ever buy with inadequate save options.

keogh
1st Jun 2006, 15:18
Just wanted to get my name down here aswell, as I agree the save system is *****e in BM (thats my opinion) and hope that Eidos release a fix for this in the patch.

Ideally they will make it so you have the option for the current system or the more "superior" system we are asking for here (i.e a change in an ini file of the option menu)... this way the people who like the current save system are happy and the people who want the "superior" save system are also happy. Everyone is a winner!

357mag
2nd Jun 2006, 00:02
Saves are supposed to be temporary to make the game more challenging. I think that at the easier difficulty settings, they should have changed this, but I also think that you really suck if it takes you hours to complete one mission. You should be able to complete a mission in one sitting. If an hour has elapsed and you have not either failed or completed the mission then you are moving entirely too slowly. If you fail, then stop playing for a while, come back to it later, and use a different approach to try and complete the mission. Personally, I think that the game is most fun on the "Pro" difficulty setting where there are no saves at all.

Also, stop crying on the forums about video games taking up too much of your precious time. If you can't find time in your life for video games, then by all means, don't. Like you've said, there are more important things... but no one wants to hear about what those things are for you.


Well let me tell you something. I will be the first to admit that I'm not that good at playing video games. I enjoy playing them, but compared to many gamers, I rather suck. Your comment about being able to finish a mission in one sitting, may or may not be true. I haven't played Blood Money yet, so I don't know how long or hard the missions are. But I can tell you in many, many games the developers have made the game hard enough that I simply cannot get through a mission in less that about 3 or 4 hours. And the save system in some of these games is absolutely atrocious. Black is an example. I spent close to 3 hours getting to about the half-way point only to die, and because there was no saves available I would have had to start all over from the beginning. That is no fun, but rather pure frustration. I'm guessing though that Hitman will be more friendly than Black.

DucusSumus
2nd Jun 2006, 01:22
There are saves. You just can't overwrite them or access them after leaving a missions. Check out my other post.