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Glider
24th Apr 2006, 05:27
My computer is not broken. The GAME is broken.

So here we go again. Eidos releases a Tomb Raider game for PC, and it won't run on many, or perhaps even most systems that meet Eidos' own specifications. Sound familiar? Well it should. This nonsense has been going on since TR3 at least. TR2 was the last game in the series that ran without any headaches for me.

Let's see now...... TR3, TR4, TR Chronicles, TR AOD, & TR Legend.... wow! 5 games released for the PC that don't run well right out of the box!
And let's think back a bit: Did any of the patches Eidos released for any of the previous 4 games ever do any good? Ummm............ NO.

And what kind of advice do we get at the forums? This kind:


Q: The game/demo is not running on my computer. What do I do?
A: Update your drivers. Graphic, Sound and AGP drivers. After installing those new drivers reinstall DirectX.

Q: Do I need to update all my drivers?
A: Yes

What utter hogwash! Let's think about this. How many other games need you to seriously mess with your computer to run properly? Not too many. -Certainly none I've ever come across. And I own a lot of games. When there's a problem it is fixed by a patch from the game's maker. Too bad Eidos has traditionally been unable to do this to any effect.

Let's also consider this advice point by point:

Update your video drivers.
Well I suppose, yeah, if you've not done it for 2 or 3 years, and you've had other vid problems.
I've got an ATI vid card. What do they say at their support website? That you should not update your drivers unless you are having a problem, and it is addressed by the latest update.
So basically ATI is saying: "Don't fix it if it ain't broke". -Excellent advice in my experience.

Update your sound card drivers.
-See above.
And another thing. My sound card is a Turtle Beach Voyetra. It's a beauty. I love it. It came OEM in my Dell. The Turtle Beach web site specifically warns me NOT to install any of the drivers on their support page, as they are designed for retail cards only. I am to refer to Dell for drivers. This I did, and I already have installed the only update Dell ever released for this card, which dates back to 2002. And my card still runs beautifully with these "old" drivers.

AGAIN, Don't fix it if it ain't broke!

Update your AGP drivers
YEAH RIGHT! Why don't you just tell me to mess with my BIOS while I'm at it?
This kind of thing only applies to some of the computers out there. Mainly off the shelf brands, and the home built variety. Anyone with a Dell or a Gateway, etc. will almost certainly find themselves in big trouble if they follow this "advice"! Geeez!

So there you have it. Bad advice trying to cover the fact that Eidos has released yet another shoddy product by trying to get you to think that the problem is at your end.


…..use the search function to find out if someone else has a similar problem which was already solved in another thread.
Historically, this is the only way to fix a broken game released by Eidos. Any problems I have ever had with any Tomb Raider game were NEVER fixed by Eidos patches. -They were only ever repaired by my following the fixes found by other players who posted clear instructions on what to do to fix the problem in these technical forums.

To sum up, remember this: Don't fix it if it ain't broke!!

And don't hold your breath waiting for a patch from Eidos. It almost certainly won't work anyway. (And I will be the first to retract this statement if I am proved wrong this time! :p )

Just be patient, and wait for a clever player out there to post what he did to fix his problem. Eventually someone will (hopefully) find a cure for what ails THE GAME, as it runs on your computer!

Good luck!

-Glider

susan
24th Apr 2006, 06:13
Have you tried contacting Eidos Technical Support directly? That's what I'd do if I bought something and it wasn't working properly.

I'm not sure how good they are (I use PS2 and that always works), but it might be worth a try??? :confused: :)

And, then you can leave feedback here: http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=58751

Good luck. :)

Abraxus
24th Apr 2006, 10:31
Don't get angry man, just do what I do... Get sarcastic! :D

Parasite27
24th Apr 2006, 18:38
I feel your pain :thumbsup:

TR Fan21
25th Apr 2006, 00:23
This is exactly why I bought the xbox version rather than for my PC. ;)

The GF7800 absolutely SUCKS because so far the only game that benefits the next-gen ability is the Godfather Game. The sims doesn't and from what I'm reading TRL PC version has issues as well.

I so regret getting a Nvidia card because between the Sims 2 & Godfather game, I have to swap drivers. One doesn't work well with the other....

King_dbm
25th Apr 2006, 02:50
Um, it takes like 2 mins for me to update drivers, maybe about 20 seconds to uninstalled my current ones, 16 seconds to restart my computer, and maybe a good min to install them. But then there is the time spent going to nvidia and time spent downloading it. So lets just say 5 mins total. I've done this maybe, 50 times in the time i've owned my own computer, never a single problem. I don't see why you have an issue doing it?

Thats a very old sound card, and it doesn't support EAX, or any of the newer stuff coming out. Maybe PC gaming wasn't ment for you, because you don't seem to be very knowledgeable about these things. Sounds like your trying to run the game on bare min grahpics / everything and complaining it doesn't work well. The min sepcs for this game is a 1.0 GHZ, thats like 5 years old. Thats VERY VERY generous. You shouldn't even be complaining. Most games out these days are 2.0 ghz min spec. Maybe it's time to buy a new computer, do you really expect a computer 5 years old to run this game? You can buy a mid range computer for 600 dollars. I'm a full time student in college, i work 30 hours a week at a $8 an hour job. If I CAN AFFORD IT, so can you. That or go buy a xbox 360 / Ps2 problem solved.

GoranAgar
25th Apr 2006, 05:43
Just because Dell, Intel and Microsoft try to convince people that a computer is a simple thing to handle doesn't make it the truth. Far from it actually. A computer is not a bleeding TV which you turn on to watch a channel. It needs maintenance. And installing a new game is already a change to a running system.

Glider
25th Apr 2006, 20:30
My entire point is that I shouldn't have to risk problems with my PC by unecessarily updating my drivers. Eidos' Tomb Raider games are the only games I've ever owned where the publisher tries to shift the blame for a game's defects onto the PC owner, rather than admitting there is a problem and actually doing something about it. Something that works.

I did not list my computer's specs or mention the exact problems I am having with the game as that is something for an entirely different thread. If my computer had not met the recommended specs published by Eidos, I never would have purchased the game.
And as for my sound card, I am not interested in EAX or surround sound of any kind. The true stereo sound I get from my 2.1 system is more than enough to keep me happy.:)

Jurjen
25th Apr 2006, 21:07
It (unfortunately) is extremely common practice for new drivers to be required for video and (to a lesser extend) sound hardware. That's what the PC world is like, deal with it :)

King_dbm
25th Apr 2006, 21:23
I have no issues with the game, besides some invis textures, and some weird reverse lighting. The game has yet to crash, but it does have some weird bugs. That said, it took me a whole 5 mins to update me drivers to 84.43 beta. You should do this too. I don't see the issue. It doesn't put your computer at risk. If something isn't working it IS YOUR hardware, as the game runs perfectly on my setup, as well as everyone elses who has the recomended spec.

Glider
26th Apr 2006, 01:20
It (unfortunately) is extremely common practice for new drivers to be required for video and (to a lesser extend) sound hardware.
I disagree. For all the reasons I mentioned in my first post. :mad2:


I have no issues with the game, besides some invis textures, and some weird reverse lighting. The game has yet to crash, but it does have some weird bugs. That said, it took me a whole 5 mins to update me drivers to 84.43 beta. You should do this too. I don't see the issue. It doesn't put your computer at risk. If something isn't working it IS YOUR hardware, as the game runs perfectly on my setup, as well as everyone elses who has the recomended spec.

You admit yourself that the game is buggy on your PC. Yet you say it runs "perfectly". Which is it? Did the update to beta drivers (:eek: ! ) help at all? It doesn't sound like it. And if you took the time to read the many, many complaints posted here and in the other TRL forum, you'd know that you were incorrect in your sweeping statement that everyone else who meets the specs has no problems.:rolleyes:


If and when Eidos publishes a patch for North America, I'll certainly give it a try. If it works for a change, I will retract that part of my statement as promised.

If ATI publishes a new driver for my Radeon that addresses issues with this game, then and only then will I update my video drivers. Even then I will be going against Dell's best advice, but I'll risk that much. ;) :D

King_dbm
26th Apr 2006, 06:39
Yes updating my drivers have given me huge improvments in both oblivion, and TRL. Because drivers come out that are optimized for the game. The problems i listed as problems are problems that everyone is having. Issues that have to do with THE GAME, not peoples hardware. I have been reading the forums, and the peoples issues all have to do with people running the game on 3 year old hardware. 5xxx series nvidia, and 9xxx ATI. Other issues have to do with sound blast live, another old peice of hardware. And many of the other issues that randomly come up, and just happen for one person or so, usually have to do with spyware, viruses, things not installed correctly, old drivers, and so on. Also a lot of people are trying to run next generation on 6600 GT and complaining about lag, or even 7300. People thinking that have high end hardware and expect good preformence with midrange cards.

Most people don't use old drivers, and people who do are usually uneducated about computers, and have issues with games.

Montresor
26th Apr 2006, 09:27
Yeah, I'm running fairly top end gear and it's running like crap. I have the demo on my 360 and it's so much nicer. Shame it cost $20 more.

Next Gen on pc causes lower FPS, hardcore graphical glitches, stuttering and crashes that happen in the exact same spot every time.

Next Gen off, I can run at 2560 x 1600 (on a 30'' dell) at 60fps constant and feel like I'm playing a 2 year old game (graphically).

fiasco
26th Apr 2006, 15:09
Um, it takes like 2 mins for me to update drivers, maybe about 20 seconds to uninstalled my current ones, 16 seconds to restart my computer, and maybe a good min to install them. But then there is the time spent going to nvidia and time spent downloading it. So lets just say 5 mins total. I've done this maybe, 50 times in the time i've owned my own computer, never a single problem. I don't see why you have an issue doing it?

Thats a very old sound card, and it doesn't support EAX, or any of the newer stuff coming out. Maybe PC gaming wasn't ment for you, because you don't seem to be very knowledgeable about these things. Sounds like your trying to run the game on bare min grahpics / everything and complaining it doesn't work well. The min sepcs for this game is a 1.0 GHZ, thats like 5 years old. Thats VERY VERY generous. You shouldn't even be complaining. Most games out these days are 2.0 ghz min spec. Maybe it's time to buy a new computer, do you really expect a computer 5 years old to run this game? You can buy a mid range computer for 600 dollars. I'm a full time student in college, i work 30 hours a week at a $8 an hour job. If I CAN AFFORD IT, so can you. That or go buy a xbox 360 / Ps2 problem solved.

Uh, could be that the majority of US internet users are not on broadband. Waiting to download the 20 meg omega drivers release over 28kps phone line speeds only to find out that the grapple still crashes the game without exception... well....

1.0 ghz, 3.0 ghz, 3dfx 16mb Voodoo, 256mb x800xt... doesn't matter the game runs like crap. I can play five minutes of the game and then it crashes because I need to use the grapple.

He could be using an abacus for all the good this game will do him.

fiasco
27th Apr 2006, 01:11
I'm just gonna go ahead and take it back. I'll install one of the old tomb raiders I have on for the wife. I didn't pay $50 for a pain in the arse.

Mike_B
27th Apr 2006, 08:48
I thought our rules were pretty clear about the discussion of no cd and other of that stuff. If you're using it and have trouble this is not the place to come for support or discussion.

Thanks,

Corsair666
27th Apr 2006, 16:15
I can't see anyone mentioning no cd, well, apart from me pointing out the fact. Resorting to stock replies now?

AikenDrum
28th Apr 2006, 20:16
Update your drivers... meh. I've been working with my GPU manufacturer (who thankfully has a better customer service dept than Eidos, who has yet to respond to my case regarding TRL problems after 4 days...). When I inquired about driver updates for my 6800 GT, the mfr told me the following:

"Driver updates are designed for enhancing features on the graphics card, and
in some cases to enhance gameplay. There have been no drivers released that
affect cards not running SLi since the 78.01 drivers and there have been no
release notes stating that they even help with any particular software.
Unfortunately, this is normally just a guise to have customers stop hassling
them about game issues and pass the blame to someone else."

So basically, if you are using a GPU with Nvidia chipset and are not utilizing SLi, then you shouldn't bother to update drivers past 78.01 until patch notes state there is some sort of enhancement for your card. Just like the previous poster who mentioned ATI's recommendations on driver updates.

Jurjen
28th Apr 2006, 21:17
What company provided you with that information? I can tell you with certainty that they are wrong.

MightyJoe
28th Apr 2006, 23:04
Updating drivers is a necessary evil/benefit of pc gaming, depending on how you look at it. While it may be annoying at times, it does enable you to get the latest bug fixes and performance enhancements.

In either case, to do any serious gaming on a pc, you really need to have relatively recent drivers. There's probably no point to go overboard and update each month, but something like every 4 months or so is reasonable and advisable.

If updating drivers is not desirable, then gaming consoles are a good alternative.

Glider
29th Apr 2006, 02:15
When I inquired about driver updates for my 6800 GT, the mfr told me the following:

"Driver updates are designed for enhancing features on the graphics card, and
in some cases to enhance gameplay. There have been no drivers released that
affect cards not running SLi since the 78.01 drivers and there have been no
release notes stating that they even help with any particular software.
Unfortunately, this is normally just a guise to have customers stop hassling
them about game issues and pass the blame to someone else."

So basically, if you are using a GPU with Nvidia chipset and are not utilizing SLi, then you shouldn't bother to update drivers past 78.01 until patch notes state there is some sort of enhancement for your card. Just like the previous poster who mentioned ATI's recommendations on driver updates.

Amen to that! If a specific issue is not addressed by a driver update; you are liable to do more harm than good to your computer. At the very least you won't be helping anything.


Unfortunately, this is normally just a guise to have customers stop hassling
them about game issues and pass the blame to someone else."
Couldn't have said it any better myself! Oh that's right, I did! :D

King_dbm
29th Apr 2006, 03:02
More harm then good? How can you do harm in UPDATING your drivers? You sound like someone is uneducated about the PC world (and i don't mean to be offensive when i say that).

Glider
29th Apr 2006, 04:27
Too many memories of doing the slightest little thing in Windoze 95, and then being up all night trying to sort it out. :mad2:

Yeah XP is way better in that regard, but I still think the potential to do more harm than good exists in unecessary changes. Why fix it if it ain't broke? :scratch:

Trying to get Eidos' shoddy games to run on my first PC by following their bad advice caused me more grief than all other things combined. :mad:
That is why I gradually came to the attitude of not fixing things that aren't broken. As I have been saying, I only update now at the recommendation of the hardware manufacturer, or to address a specific issue that has been fixed. It works for me! ;)

MightyJoe
29th Apr 2006, 07:18
Dude, whatever works for you but if you know what you are doing and follow instructions, simply updating drivers has very little chance to cause problems. Even updating a bios flashrom is very safe if done correctly and there is no power outage during the update.

From my experience, there are no major issues with the PC version of Tomb Raider Legend (caveat: I can't vouch for next-gen effects because my X800XT does not support shader model 3.0). I've experienced no crashes, controls are very good using a dual analog gamepad, vibration effects work fine, sound is fine, and framerate is quite impressive (usually maxes out the 60 Hz of my LCD).

The only issue I've come across is some minor texture and shadow flickering in some select areas of the game... but nothing serious enough to detract from gameplay.

Jurjen
29th Apr 2006, 09:35
The advice 'if it isn't broken don't fix it' is very sensible.

If you have no problem, don't go and update your drivers either. Why would you?

Thing is, you _do_ have a problem. So it is broken. So you do need to try to fix it.

Drivers are not simple things, the fact that one thing works does not mean your driver is bugfree. Every new game could show new problems.

Leak
29th Apr 2006, 10:28
What company provided you with that information? I can tell you with certainty that they are wrong.
Heh.

While it's not nVidia, if you have a look at ATI's latest changelog (https://a248.e.akamai.net/f/674/9206/0/www2.ati.com/drivers/Catalyst_64_release_notes.html), you'll notice it's even got a fix for Serious Sam: Second Encounter in it, and that's without Crossfire...

I doubt it's different with nVidia (http://download.nvidia.com/Windows/84.21/84.21_Forceware_Release_Notes.pdf):


GeForce 6800, Windows XP: Fixed–Hanger textures in space maps are
not rendered in Star Wars Battlefront 2.

Windows XP: Increased performance when playing F.E.A.R with
antialiasing enabled.

GeForce 7 Series, GeForce 6 Series: Serious Sam 2 freezes on Dual
Core CPUs.

GeForce 7800 GTX/GT: Reflective surfaces in Max Payne 2 are
unaffected by light sources.

etc...
AikenDrum, you've been had. Personally, I would go with a different card manufacturer next time...

np: New Order - Guilt Is A Useless Emotion (Waiting For The Sirens' Call)

Jurjen
29th Apr 2006, 10:31
That's all nice and all. But Nvidia has specifically worked on this driver with Eidos and the developers, and has publically spoken to some websites and confirmed that they had issues previously, and that these drivers fixed them.

I don't know who writes up the release notes, but it looks like they missed something :)

Nightmist
29th Apr 2006, 10:54
The "Update your driver" advice depends on something: How new is your 3D card? If it's a GeForce 7 (or ATI card of the latest model) then, yes, most likely updating your driver will help. If it is not the latest model, then I suggest you find the driver that is the latest/best for your model card, meaning check the release date of the driver and compare it with when your card was the hottest thing.

My old GeForce 4 card didn't work properly with anything when I downloaded the latest drivers. However, when I found a driver that was released when GeForce 4 was the best card, everything worked. Even Neverwinter Nights, which is known for being notorious for not working with a lot of drivers. So with the old driver I could run HL2, FarCry, Gothic 2, Guild Wars... you name it.

kennyrushby
29th Apr 2006, 11:39
Gotta say I agree with Glider - no matter the reasons, I dont spend £30 for a service that doesn't work. Simple as. The recommended soundcard on the box was 100% windows compatible with dx9.0c - which mine is, but I still get an awful farting noise over the game sound which makes it unplayable and certainly unenjoyable. Eidos haven't replied to me, a helpful guy on here explained it looks like in order to play this game I need a new s/c.

I've pretty much had it with PC games now (Footie Manager the only exception!), they're great for music etc but from now on I'll only be buying games for my console.

just my own opinion of course!

GoranAgar
30th Apr 2006, 08:57
The advice 'if it isn't broken don't fix it' is very sensible.

Yes, but it does not apply here, does it? It is broken. The game software and the driver software are not talking together properly.


... if you have a look at ATI's latest changelog (https://a248.e.akamai.net/f/674/9206/0/www2.ati.com/drivers/Catalyst_64_release_notes.html), you'll notice it's even got a fix for Serious Sam: Second Encounter in it,
So who said it is only the game developers job to fix problems and not the drivers developer? Think again.

Jurjen
30th Apr 2006, 09:24
Yes, but it does not apply here, does it? It is broken. The game software and the driver software are not talking together properly.


Which was exactly the point I was making :)

mystdragon
1st May 2006, 01:08
I have a PCIx16 GeForce 6600 and water and reflection effects don't work with drivers above 81.98, so latest drivers is not always the best answer.