PDA

View Full Version : It's the end of tr as we know it..



chaotic33
16th Apr 2006, 17:09
We know it, they know it.
I have been reading threads here about the new tr; lovers and haters so zealous that they descend to the level of mutual spell checking. These extreme opinions are very logical since the game has dramatically changed. I mean : another change of this magnitude and we'd be racing f1 as lara croft against schumi and still call it tombraider.
I think within the genre it has moved to the game is very well done, very professional, very polished: a fine product.
I acknowledge it's qualities but i am not very fond of it. I'm just not into this type of game. The original tr games (1-3) had a quality which i find difficult to define but has something to do with level design, immersion quality of the artwork, well balanced difficulty. It has gone 4ever but there are other things to love in life..

LuxAngel
16th Apr 2006, 17:55
I hear ya'... But it isn't necessarily over, there's always hope. This game is beautiful (so far -- I'm still in the 2nd area, lol)...

You mentioned that the first few classics had a quality "difficult to define but has something to do with level design, immersion quality of the artwork, well balanced difficulty"...

Legend's visual quality is beautiful indeed; but when you say 'level design', I'm wondering if you're missing those giganormous:p, seemingly endless levels of TR1...? Just think, with the current appearance, if these levels seemed to go on and on in that manner. I think you'd be more than pleased. :D

As for balanced difficulty, did you not find it more challenging on the "difficult" level? At any rate, I expect that Crystal Dynamics will do a phenomenal job on the next game as well. I really appreciate Legend so far, and I can only imagine what they'll be able to produce next time. :)


.

Resy
16th Apr 2006, 17:59
we got what we were asking for and some of us (not myself) were not happy. It seems everyone who has been playing TR for the past 10 years has always complained about her controls and other things. Well these controls are awsome but... grass is greener on the other side of the fence.

I'm only in japan and totally loving this game so far. I'm sure its going to be short but you know what? I don't care. Its their first time making a TR game. Now they have their own experience of what works and what does not. Next time around it will be even better!

Kiopo
16th Apr 2006, 18:02
we got what we were asking for and some of us (not myself) were not happy. It seems everyone who has been playing TR for the past 10 years has always complained about her controls and other things. Well these controls are awsome but... grass is greener on the other side of the fence.

I'm only in japan and totally loving this game so far. I'm sure its going to be short but you know what? I don't care. Its their first time making a TR game. Now they have their own experience of what works and what does not. Next time around it will be even better!

Yep, it was great but lets hope they pay more attention to the length and complexity next time around!

Also i think there was somethin about the original games that gave you the feelin that it was you and lara alone vs the world, you weren't guided along exactly where to go but had to figure out and explore things for yourself over vast areas... i think that was mostly missing in TRL.

shurik
16th Apr 2006, 19:09
I don't know about you guys, but it's time to move on. You can't expect the games of Tomb Raider to be the same everytime like the older ones. I think this Tomb Raider has it all, I love this one. The best Tomb Raider ever for me. I've beaten all series, you name it, but this one wins my heart over all. I don't know about you guys but common, slightly changes are always good.
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: for this Legend, and Lara!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Prometeus
16th Apr 2006, 19:14
The games must be adapted to the market needs. Maybe, the old gamers are begging to recover the first tomb raider style, but there are new gamers which want to enjoy with Tomb Raider too in a different way. Those needs must be balanced. Tomb Raider Legend was the first tomb raider of Crystal Dinamics, they still can improve on the next Tomb Raider (personally, i love Tomb Raider Legend, this is the first Tomb Raider that i have played and i'm waiting for the next), it would be perfect if they could add some of the best things of previous tomb raiders (for example, the lenght and number of levels) and include new ones.

About the background of Lara, personally, i prefer this one (TR Legend) because is more believable. The old one was very "strange" and full of gaps (for example, if she had to write magazines to earn enough money to survive, how could she buy that expensive equipment just writing about archeology?)

Paul-uk
16th Apr 2006, 21:15
I don't know about you guys, but it's time to move on. You can't expect the games of Tomb Raider to be the same everytime like the older ones. I think this Tomb Raider has it all, I love this one. The best Tomb Raider ever for me. I've beaten all series, you name it, but this one wins my heart over all. I don't know about you guys but common, slightly changes are always good.
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: for this Legend, and Lara!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ABSOLUTLY.:thumbsup:

DABhand
17th Apr 2006, 04:55
I don't know about you guys, but it's time to move on. You can't expect the games of Tomb Raider to be the same everytime like the older ones. I think this Tomb Raider has it all, I love this one. The best Tomb Raider ever for me. I've beaten all series, you name it, but this one wins my heart over all. I don't know about you guys but common, slightly changes are always good.
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: for this Legend, and Lara!!!!!!!!!!!!!


They said the same thing to church goer's about poker too. (let you figure that one out)


But, They could have used the same engine and had the same type of level design as before and be better.


There was nothing stopping them from having longer levels and still have the same cinematics etc.


By looking at this forum, there is more negatives than positives, and if TR8 is developed they will see through lack of sales the full effect of TRL being short.


They had a chance to shine, the engine yes, but the gameplay sorry just wasnt there. Its more an arcade game than an adventurous type.


As stated in a previous thread about textures and more specifically wall textures and how they were repeated in previous games, yes thats true and its a well known programming strategy to minimise file sizes thus to cram in more.

TRL didnt do this hence the huge game size for a small game. If they used repeat textures they may have saved on space and got more into the game. That was bad programming IMHO.

smlaci
17th Apr 2006, 08:47
As for balanced difficulty, did you not find it more challenging on the "difficult" level?
.
??? what?!?!?!?! you just die faster on hard... i remember silent hill 4 where on hard you got no clues, no hints, nothing, nada... that's what hard means.
tr needs harder puzzles and labyrinths and areas to get lost in. it is indeed the end of tr as we know it.

ahimsa
17th Apr 2006, 10:41
I think Lara Croft: Princess of Persia is here to stay. Lara Croft: Tomb Raider died in Egypt.

I like the graphics, I like how this Lara looks, I kind of even like the grab feature, but that is about all.

What I liked about Tomb Raider is not in this game. TR:TLR was my favorite and I had hoped all these years that another would be made like it, but with some extra moves.

I don't care for PoP so having Lara become the female PoP doesn't impress me at all or make the game fun for me. I also don't care for those humongous, Spyro type gem rewards :eek: ...give me back the secrets that you actually have to look for. I miss being able to pick up every item. It was fun having so many weapons to choose from.

What others have said about the feelings is true. I no longer feel anything when I enter a new level or move her around. I have no passion to even keep her safe.

Lara's new Barbie doll wardrobe doesn't impress me. What she wore was never important to me; the game is what was important.

CD will make out just fine without those of us who started playing TR when the games first game out and prefer the old Lara. CD now will gain more sales for their other games that this new Lara is modeled after, from the people who are enjoying this new Lara. Nothing wrong with that. After all; they are a business and it's all about the money.

I am glad to see that so many of you are enjoying this new Lara and that you seem to have the same passion for her as those of us have for the old Lara. It feels good to have a game that you love; mine is TR:TLR. I didn't get upset when people talked bad about TR:TLR because I realize that not everyone is going to like what I like or dislike all that I like. ;)

Our (those of us who do not like this Lara) loss is your gain.

Fortunately for those of us who are not enchanted by Lara PoP, we have the level editor and there are so many levels to download and enjoy. :thumbsup:

I only rented Legend. Once burned; twice shy. Unless the old Lara comes back, I won't be wasting my time buying or even renting any more Lara Croft games.

Maybe some other company will see the void that AOD and Legend have left and will fill it. I think a company that does this will find itself with a lot of customers.

It's strange...she looks like Lara, but I just don't feel like she is Lara. :(

chaotic33
17th Apr 2006, 14:26
Arghhhh the stupid snake at the end of arthur. One mouse demolished. I hate this sort of game. It doesn't even feel satisfying if i finally get through this kind of bull****, just frustrated with the waste of time. I am not good at this, I don't like this, I don't want this. Stop stop stop goodbye tr

wgell
17th Apr 2006, 15:00
Arghhhh the stupid snake at the end of arthur. One mouse demolished. I hate this sort of game. It doesn't even feel satisfying if i finally get through this kind of bull****, just frustrated with the waste of time. I am not good at this, I don't like this, I don't want this. Stop stop stop goodbye tr

If there is one forum posting Crystal Dynamics should have stuck all over their office wall it is the above.

Goodbye TR. Hello boring, repetitive, purile rubbish.

Mangar The Dark
17th Apr 2006, 16:10
If you still want to play the old-style TR, there are a seemingly infinite number of custom levels (some extremely good ones, too) which you can download for free. What would be the sense in CD releasing more of that? They needed to make changes. So, yes, you probably will not see another commercially released TR game that plays exactly like the old ones. Instead, now you get the "new" TR from stores, and an endless supply of "old" TR for free. Not a bad deal.

wgell
17th Apr 2006, 16:18
If you still want to play the old-style TR, there are a seemingly infinite number of custom levels (some extremely good ones, too) which you can download for free. What would be the sense in CD releasing more of that? They needed to make changes. So, yes, you probably will not see another commercially released TR game that plays exactly like the old ones. Instead, now you get the "new" TR from stores, and an endless supply of "old" TR for free. Not a bad deal.


I don't know about anyone else but I don't want the old game back. I stopped playing TR about 4 years ago after I finished building my last custom level. I want an updated version. I want TR to be next generation with real world physics and all the bells and whistles that modern games provide. But I do not want the dumbed down, shallow trash that is TR:L.

thoran6
17th Apr 2006, 17:04
I think Lara Croft: Princess of Persia is here to stay. Lara Croft: Tomb Raider died in Egypt.

I like the graphics, I like how this Lara looks, I kind of even like the grab feature, but that is about all.

What I liked about Tomb Raider is not in this game. TR:TLR was my favorite and I had hoped all these years that another would be made like it, but with some extra moves.

I don't care for PoP so having Lara become the female PoP doesn't impress me at all or make the game fun for me. I also don't care for those humongous, Spyro type gem rewards :eek: ...give me back the secrets that you actually have to look for. I miss being able to pick up every item. It was fun having so many weapons to choose from.

What others have said about the feelings is true. I no longer feel anything when I enter a new level or move her around. I have no passion to even keep her safe.

Lara's new Barbie doll wardrobe doesn't impress me. What she wore was never important to me; the game is what was important.

CD will make out just fine without those of us who started playing TR when the games first game out and prefer the old Lara. CD now will gain more sales for their other games that this new Lara is modeled after, from the people who are enjoying this new Lara. Nothing wrong with that. After all; they are a business and it's all about the money.

I am glad to see that so many of you are enjoying this new Lara and that you seem to have the same passion for her as those of us have for the old Lara. It feels good to have a game that you love; mine is TR:TLR. I didn't get upset when people talked bad about TR:TLR because I realize that not everyone is going to like what I like or dislike all that I like. ;)

Our (those of us who do not like this Lara) loss is your gain.

Fortunately for those of us who are not enchanted by Lara PoP, we have the level editor and there are so many levels to download and enjoy. :thumbsup:

I only rented Legend. Once burned; twice shy. Unless the old Lara comes back, I won't be wasting my time buying or even renting any more Lara Croft games.

Maybe some other company will see the void that AOD and Legend have left and will fill it. I think a company that does this will find itself with a lot of customers.

It's strange...she looks like Lara, but I just don't feel like she is Lara. :(

AMEN to all of the above!!!!!!!!!!!!

RAZMAT
17th Apr 2006, 17:09
yea the sense of isolation gave the others a surreal feeling.the game could use a few changes like someone above mentioned;level design.an example would be in my other post.but the game is cool and would probably be great with a few changes.

zren
17th Apr 2006, 17:11
Legend was too easy imho. Like someone (cant remember name) pointed out
we were treated like a bunch of kids.. For todays 14 year old generation that maybe
a good thing since they mostlikely havent played TR1-2-3-4-5.

For the 'die hard' Tomb Raider this game is just way too easy. Everything is
self-explanitory with hints, Lara 'looking' where to go, shiny objects.
The challenge is gone in Legend for us 'die hards'.

I bought Legend last week (holland). Initially while i was going on in the first
level it felt all right and played like a real Tomb Raider.
I remember Tomb Raider (1,2,3 primarily) and how they made a big impression
on me while playing it with my girlfriend & brother together on PlayStation.
Long enjoyable evenings running around trying to explore every square feet
and even trying impossible jumps 'just to get to that spot' where there might
be a ammo, gun or medpack pickup that we concidered 'we must get it' before
we need it lol.

There were so many 'traps' in Tomb Raider 3 and you had to explore and take
your time to review the whole area before you recklessly run or jump for your
destiny.
Where are the keys in Legend? Or the pieces of an artifact that can be put
together to form something you can use in a different area/map?

Legend its 'scare factor' is also far less impressive (if any at all). In previous
Tomb Raiders you would sometimes pee in your pants when out of no where around some
corner a creature makes a loud noise and runs towards you. You panic and
start making mistakes lol.

I remember the crocodiles in Tomb Raider very well, i was always scared to go
in the water (in tomb raider, not real life lol) knowing there could be some
weird things chasing you while you are in panic trying to look for a place to
surface and catch breath.
The piranha's so much freaked me out in TR3 lol

I must agree that the controls in Legend are far better than the ones
in AoD. Only a few things i dislike is the fact that Lara doesnt
do sideway flips anymore (only with guns equiped). What happened to
sprinting :S ?
Also the fact that you can move forward with all the W/S/A/D keys depending
on the camera point of view is very annoying. Lara should simply 'rotate/turn around'
when using A and S (left / right) and not walk in that direction. Only the W (forward)
should be used to make Lara move in a direction and independent from the camera view.
Forward should be forward ALWAYS.
If you are looking at Lara (seeing her face) you have to use S (backward) to walk
forward. This is highly annoying and disturbs the players 'feel for movement'.

You can probably guess by reading this that TR3 is my favorite really :P

The High Security Compound in Nevada was extremely nice. You had no
guns and had to use your brains to think out what to do to get where you
want to go while some cons are coming after you.

Legend is ok i guess if you are new to Tomb Raider but for alot of Tomb
Raider fans Legend just is not what it should be. Puzzling, scary in some parts,
mysterious, hidden pickups (or save crystals like in TR3 for PS).
I was slightly disappointed with Legend. It is just too easy in my opinion.
Newcomers maybe not agree..

ahimsa
17th Apr 2006, 22:43
I don't know about anyone else but I don't want the old game back. I stopped playing TR about 4 years ago after I finished building my last custom level. I want an updated version. I want TR to be next generation with real world physics and all the bells and whistles that modern games provide. But I do not want the dumbed down, shallow trash that is TR:L.

I agree, TR the way she was, but with improvements, like the graphics and some new moves. Just not PoP moves. I want the danger that she will miss a jump and fall to her death. I want to still make precision moves, not these PoP moves where all you need to do is aim her in the general direction.

I think the toggle works better than the one in AOD so I am liking that. I like that she can creep just by lighting pushing forward. I don't however like her doing about faces when all I want is for her to turn slightly.

I don't want the constant chatter from her guys either. I finally shut off all the sound on the game. It's not like there were any scarey noises anyway.

Auto grab would be nice, but only if you actually manage to grab hold of something on your own. Then once you have her where you want her, like on a ledge, you can let her hang there while you have dinner or something. :D

I liked finding secrets, especially the ones that were hidden in places that were so well blended with decorative walls or scenery that you would not see the place unless you had your mind trained to look for these things.

The old Lara required a lot of areas of the brain and that is what made her fun for me. I liked the mental workout. There is no workout with this new Lara.

LittleTaffer
18th Apr 2006, 06:08
Lara kills too many humans. Thereby losing flavor of the old TRs because if you recall in TR 1 - 3 (with the exception of the Area 51 levels), Lara did a lot more exploration than really needing to kill. She only killed when she had to.

I agree with what's being said that TRL was made for the teen market these days. Why does human killing need to be involved in a game that's meant for exploring ancient tombs?

Yes!! I'm not the only one who hates that auto-grab!! I keep telling Lara she's become a magnet. :D I had an annoyingly long time trying to figure out to get her to LET GO of the darn edges!

shurik
22nd Apr 2006, 03:04
Looks to me like only the haters of Tomb Raider are here. This tomb raider legend is a great game, I don't know what yall are smoking, but please what's the matter with you guys??? The graphics are nice, Lara's moves are amazing, the music is great, and the story line is awsome. I can't understand people who are hating on this Tomb Raider Legend like this. :mad:
I say stop crying and except the great changes. I can't believe we all waited for this game like this, and now that's what we got >>> complaints?

Well that's all true, there were haters in every Tomb Raider. Some people liked them some didn't. I guess it's a normal thing.
Overall more ppl like this game than those who doesn't.

Sophia Leigh
22nd Apr 2006, 07:42
For me, Legend is still Tomb Raider. Its still Lara exploring, its still Lara in search on an artifact, its still Lara shooting baddies and animals that attack her, there are still brain teasing puzzles (if you search for all the secrets or at least set out to find the gold ones). For me the only difference is that the game is more beautiful - not only Lara but the scenery and locations too. If you play the game to its full potential and not just race through it you will still get that Tomb Raiding satisfaction that you are after. Chrystal Dynamics actually listened to us when making this game, why not have a read through the good old TR Legend Suggestions thread (http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=50462)

Deckard
22nd Apr 2006, 11:19
E.g: Midroth's post, #7 in the named thread:

1. BIG open areas
-> Very, very few open areas, and none of them I would dare call "big"

2. Exploring
-> Very little of that, and the little left feels more like a guided tour in Disneyworld

3. Secrets ("Pling")
-> Fine :thumbsup: .

4. No easy/short game
-> I beg your pardon? One of the shortest I've ever played, and I've been mad :mad: at MP2. Compared with TRL, MP2's length may be defined as "of epic proportions" :rolleyes: . Admittedly, pre-scholars might define Legend as difficult :p .

5. No AJ/Bond stuff - we play Lara
-> Indeed. I'll pretend I didn't notice the "tech-team". And the magnetic grapple. And the all-purpose-hyper-intelligent binoculars. And ...

6. Not so many "modern City" levels
-> Fine :thumbsup: .

Let's see: two out of six - they did listen, did they? :rolleyes:

Ruz
22nd Apr 2006, 11:27
wow, my first post in 3 years,working in the games industry for the last 2 years( blaagh)
But anyway I have mixed emotions with regard to the newTR.
I am not impressed with the lack of fluidity in laras movements though. That was the thing about earler TR that I liked. Has anyone noticed that when she changes direction she almost falls over.

I also hate the way that when you jump in the air, you come down too soon. feels like you are jumping with weights attached to your ankles.

Swimming is thew worst thing in the game for me . used to be fun, now its a slow torture.

One thing I would say about the magic spark that used to make TR my favourite game is that a lot of the creative talent that had made it so much fun had left core by the time the last game came out.

Thats what a lot of people seem to forget and think that core had 'suddenly' dropped the ball.

Also Just because toby gard was an adviser on this new game, doesn't mean to say he had much control over it.
Just attaching his name to it is enough to make people think it will be great.


The creativity of the earlier level designers can be copied by other artists, but the originals will always be the best. I think the main ones retired from the games inddustry a few years ago

The latest incarnation is a good game in its own right, but not really much to do with TR IMHO.There are bits of it which seem to pay homage to the original series, but its just not quite the same spirit somehow
Beautiful to look at though.
For the next release, we need 20 levels (lots of work for next gen assets) , refine the contorls more and quit the linear, non exploration style of the game
Its one thing to complain about the old grid system, then why make it even more rigid when making a new version.

It was very easy in the old verison to run to a cliff edge, jump off and steer lara easily.
That seems very hard now. Quite often you jump and she veers off in some weird direction.
auto grab is probably there to make up for the twitchiness of the controls and the camera needs some serious reworking IMO.
Lastly I would really beg CD to stop giving out so many hints . The real fun part is to get stuck and get frustrated.

Having said all this i don't hate the game and at times it has a nice feel to it, but still room for much improvement

5/10 in my book

Chris Daly
22nd Apr 2006, 11:33
Way to much shooting at humans ,There is no reason for this
violence. Yes Lara traditionally has defended herself against
animal species but there has always been a reason and it was
kept to moderation, shooting and shooting at other humans detracts
from the game. TR is about puzzles mystery adventure and intrigue
all missing from Legend.

TR has fallen from grace badly, plus it has quite a few bugs. The scenery is interesting but linear again. The Rutland thing was childish , Lara deserves
better than what is in Legend. I did enjoy the Croft Manor section
it had some of the old style Lara and some new fresh ideas too ..
but overall ..Very dissapointed with Legend !!:(

Back to TR 12345 for now.:rolleyes:

GoranAgar
22nd Apr 2006, 11:47
Lastly I would really beg CD to stop giving out so many hints .
I agree. Take out all the hints and you increase the play time by 2 to 3 times at least.

Besides that. TR Legend is an excellent game.

Chris Daly
22nd Apr 2006, 12:07
I agree. Take out all the hints and you increase the play time by 2 to 3 times at least.

Besides that. TR Legend is an excellent game.

Sticking up for the franchise again Goran ! Tell me why you
think needless time after time shooting of humans , and bugs
that stop the player continuing in the game makes that
game excellent ?

I have an idea , invite us the players to meet Crystal and Eidos
and attend a forum explaining how to make Tomb Raider good
again. :)

GoranAgar
22nd Apr 2006, 12:14
Sticking up for the franchise again Goran !
What can I say, I like Tomb Raider. I say what I dislike about each new game and then I turn to the positive things in life. ;) And in this new game I found a lot more things I liked than I disliked. There are things that need improvement, but I enjoy playing this game imensly. :)


and bugs
I did not encounter too many bugs myself. Lucky me.


I have an idea , invite us the players to meet Crystal and Eidos and attend a forum explaining how to make Tomb Raider good
again. :)
That would be fantastic. :D Matt? Do you hear that?

RedIvy
22nd Apr 2006, 14:20
I don't know about you guys, but it's time to move on. You can't expect the games of Tomb Raider to be the same everytime like the older ones. I think this Tomb Raider has it all, I love this one. The best Tomb Raider ever for me. I've beaten all series, you name it, but this one wins my heart over all. I don't know about you guys but common, slightly changes are always good.
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: for this Legend, and Lara!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yeah!! i compeletly agree, its one of the best Tomb Raider game ever, with the best realisitic visual graphics, with good tones, colours and shadows that are very consistant with the atmosphere in the game. I have noticed the changes of light and shadows on Lara's skintone as she explores dark areas which i never noticed before in the other games, not much anyway.


I think the realism in this game is extraordinary and revolutionary and there are many compliants about the game being too short. I think this is because CD have done so much to make the game super smooth. All the rocks and tree have the right texture and lines, no rough edges or crooked lines anywhere.

Therefore CD have taken TR into a new realm and we should appritiate that and i am sure with time the game play will get longer as they become more trained in creating this kind of detailed games.

we must have all noticed how smooth the camera angles are and how easy it is to control Lara. So welldone CD GREAT JOB!:D

Leak
22nd Apr 2006, 15:28
Tell me why you
think needless time after time shooting of humans [...] makes that
game excellent ?
Because just shooting cute fluffy stuffed toy animals wouldn't exactly cut it... :D

(Oh, and mostly because those humans shoot first if you let them...)

np: Landesvatter - Ber. (Lax)

Leak
22nd Apr 2006, 15:29
That would be fantastic. :D Matt? Do you hear that?
I don't think that Design by Committee works well if the Committee is too big - no matter what you do, you can't please everyone... :)

np: Mike Ladd - Little Red (Father Divine)

GoranAgar
22nd Apr 2006, 15:49
They would not invite the whole forum. Just a little group of people for a discussion afternoon.

... well, they wouldn't even do that. I know. ;)

Mark C
22nd Apr 2006, 16:22
Not particuarly impressed.

I first played TR2 when I got my first Playstation. Next did TR, then TR3 onwards as and when they came out. Great games. I'm a TR veteran but not a fanatic. It's a game. A good game but nonetheless, a game. As such, I haven't been on the edge of my seat like some of my family willing away the months, and am glad because I would have been hugely disappointed. It came out, I played it. This is what I thought...

Good points:

Has the old feel of the game in the locations, which look very nice.
Is very fluid.

That's about it.

Bad points:

Waited, what, two years with all that build-up and spent £35 on a game that I finished in two sittings in a few days.
Flew through it without getting stuck.
Shiny clues that said, "This Way!" Thanks for that.
Too few puzzles, which were childishly simple.
Levels far too short.
Shoot-outs too easy by far.
The analogue sticks are still a pain in the whatnot when trying to line up.
Didn't see the point of the interactive cut scenes.
Would it have been too much to ask to leave the action buttons a bit more traditional? Makes life a tad easier.

No, I do not want to go back and replay for all the secrets. I've played the game and finished it. Trying to find a load of not-so-obvious dead end tunnels is not my idea of a good time. Neither do I care what Lara is wearing, it's a game of skill and puzzle-solving (supposedly), not a fashion parade.

Suddenly Angel of Darkness doesn't seem so bad. In fact, playing TR2 or 3 is much more enjoyable, you never know it by heart and still get stuck. Everything moves on and changes, I've no great problem with that, but not at the expense of losing a good series of game over to show boating. I miss getting pen and paper out and scribbling notes, which is indicative of a true challenge. Alot of posters have argued that the old die-hards are incapable of moving with the times. I do not think this is the case, moreover, it's about a game that over the last two incarnations has been watered down to the point where it is now little more than one long interactive cinegraphic. If, as has been suggested, the game has been dumbed down to meet today's target sector/teenage market, then gawd help us all.

Looks very nice, but it's supposed to be a game first and foremost, not a picture.

Next one along will have to pull a few rabbits out of hats before this family goes out and buys the thing. It was given another chance but failed miserably. Alot promised but not delivered.

TRBeth
22nd Apr 2006, 16:53
I am one of those die-hard TR players. I was also very vocal with criticisms pre-game release, judging from trailers and then the demo.

All in all, it was fun, but not comparable to the originals, particularly 1-4. The graphics are certainly a major improvement, but, unfortunately, most pc players can not take advantage of next gen. Still, wo next gen, the graphics are very good.

The gameplay itself was choppy with too short levels, too short themes. What was done with the levels was mostly good....but it ended way too soon leaving the player feeling like s/he was just getting in-to the level and then suddenly, abruptly its over.

The game is walk-through style rather than expansive. If you progress to point C, forget about going back to point B or A. Granted, this happened SOMETIMES in the original games, but not always.

Way too much combat with crews of baddies. TR players want to explore and find, not shoot guns.

And speaking of exploring. Ditch the glittering targets and signposts. Subtlety will win this game back for the TR fans.

The interactive stuff is just annoying. Plain and simple with a BIG ANNOYING. Cut that out Eidos.

The headset should be used sparingly. Perhaps OCCASIONALLY, use it during a cut scene before a level to get info from the tech crew back home, but, for the most part you can cut it out altogether imo. It works for the movies, but not the game.

And bosses? This is not DOOM. Bosses after every level is so monotonous and boring and childish. We do not need to be entertained. We need to be engaged in "what will happen to Lara next". I got more thrills just opening a dark door in previous games than messing around with this interactive gameplay and cartoonish boss stuff.

Please put to rest this james bondish music and get out the old scores. P.L.E.A.S.E.

CD did a very good job with the mansion concept, but, as has been said, it needs to be expanded to include the whole mansion. A mansion with one bedroom and no baths or kitchen just don't make sense, CD. Do the other guys sleep on pool furnature? Give us the mansion in its entirity. It is worth making it a level in and of itself.

Can I say that CD is going in the right direction?? Maybe, if the company will listen to the many threads posted here and elsewhere and, not only "get back to the tombs", but also get back to tomb raider Lara Croft style.

There are some seriously talented TR gamers out there, in these forums and others. Give these gamers a consulting contract and heed their advice when it comes to the next game. TR gamers know what needs to be done with the genre, CD/Eidos, and it is up to you to listen and take this game to the ultimate heights it deserves. Eidos can not rely on old laurels forever to hold TR together.

I say that many things done were a move in the right direction, but keep on moving CD. Read the forums for ideas, complaints, etc. and make a "do" and "not do " list. The not do list is so obvious because so many are saying exactly the same thing. Unless, "next generation" actually refers to the next generation of elementary school age children? Does it?

thoran6
22nd Apr 2006, 16:55
Lara kills too many humans. Thereby losing flavor of the old TRs because if you recall in TR 1 - 3 (with the exception of the Area 51 levels), Lara did a lot more exploration than really needing to kill. She only killed when she had to.

I agree with what's being said that TRL was made for the teen market these days. Why does human killing need to be involved in a game that's meant for exploring ancient tombs?

Yes!! I'm not the only one who hates that auto-grab!! I keep telling Lara she's become a magnet. :D I had an annoyingly long time trying to figure out to get her to LET GO of the darn edges!

i did too, i kept holding down the button to keep her on the ledge and then forgot that i didnt have to. when she was on ladders i would forget that as well and she would always jump off of them.

Parasite27
23rd Apr 2006, 00:54
I am one of those die-hard TR players. I was also very vocal with criticisms pre-game release, judging from trailers and then the demo.

All in all, it was fun, but not comparable to the originals, particularly 1-4. The graphics are certainly a major improvement, but, unfortunately, most pc players can not take advantage of next gen. Still, wo next gen, the graphics are very good.

The gameplay itself was choppy with too short levels, too short themes. What was done with the levels was mostly good....but it ended way too soon leaving the player feeling like s/he was just getting in-to the level and then suddenly, abruptly its over.

The game is walk-through style rather than expansive. If you progress to point C, forget about going back to point B or A. Granted, this happened SOMETIMES in the original games, but not always.

Way too much combat with crews of baddies. TR players want to explore and find, not shoot guns.

And speaking of exploring. Ditch the glittering targets and signposts. Subtlety will win this game back for the TR fans.

The interactive stuff is just annoying. Plain and simple with a BIG ANNOYING. Cut that out Eidos.

The headset should be used sparingly. Perhaps OCCASIONALLY, use it during a cut scene before a level to get info from the tech crew back home, but, for the most part you can cut it out altogether imo. It works for the movies, but not the game.

And bosses? This is not DOOM. Bosses after every level is so monotonous and boring and childish. We do not need to be entertained. We need to be engaged in "what will happen to Lara next". I got more thrills just opening a dark door in previous games than messing around with this interactive gameplay and cartoonish boss stuff.

Please put to rest this james bondish music and get out the old scores. P.L.E.A.S.E.

CD did a very good job with the mansion concept, but, as has been said, it needs to be expanded to include the whole mansion. A mansion with one bedroom and no baths or kitchen just don't make sense, CD. Do the other guys sleep on pool furnature? Give us the mansion in its entirity. It is worth making it a level in and of itself.

Can I say that CD is going in the right direction?? Maybe, if the company will listen to the many threads posted here and elsewhere and, not only "get back to the tombs", but also get back to tomb raider Lara Croft style.

There are some seriously talented TR gamers out there, in these forums and others. Give these gamers a consulting contract and heed their advice when it comes to the next game. TR gamers know what needs to be done with the genre, CD/Eidos, and it is up to you to listen and take this game to the ultimate heights it deserves. Eidos can not rely on old laurels forever to hold TR together.

I say that many things done were a move in the right direction, but keep on moving CD. Read the forums for ideas, complaints, etc. and make a "do" and "not do " list. The not do list is so obvious because so many are saying exactly the same thing. Unless, "next generation" actually refers to the next generation of elementary school age children? Does it?

GoranAgar CD/Eidos should hold a chat disscussion with Beth on the next game I can not argue with anything she said here.

EddyBones
23rd Apr 2006, 01:28
Regarding the thread's title, I vaguely remember reading that sentiment a few years ago... Wonder what happened? Lo and behold, TR remains.

munchkin
23rd Apr 2006, 01:51
i think i'm starting to work out why i don't feel as disapointed in this game as many do.

i do not expect every game to be 20+hrs, or to take weeks to finish. most games no matter how long i finish in a week tops, and thats if i'm busy with other things, if its a weekend, i can plough through and complete even the longest games (like the FF series) so i've come to look to other things like gameplay, TRL's gameplay was and is excellent, the plot keeps players gripped to the end, and beyond, i certianly need to find out what happenes next.

The controls and camera (PS2) whcih can often ruin a good game, were perfect or as near as currently possible, so intuative, smooth camera easily controlable.

AI was alright, enemy AI worled okay they tended to shoot at lara, in the right direction, move around throw grenades at lara, not the best Ai but good, alot better than most. Boss AI was almost to good, the Japan boss espcially very accurate.

depth of charecters, all charecters even small bit players had depth history, a defned independanbt charecter, and background. care taken in who voiced them even for the bit players. main charecters like Lara, zip, amanda etc had depth and history, emotion, to them.

all of whcih helps to imerse the player in the game and the plot of the game.

overall, TRL won on all the points that mattered, are there errors? sure, do they spoil the game? not for me, and many others, why? because it is a good solid game, whcih excells in many areas the faults are niggling at worst.

knowing CD fomr the soul reaver games they will improve on this for the next game, and continue doing so for as long as they get the contract to devleope TR games.

They had a hard to impossible task to save Lara and TR game franchise fomr death, she came this close after AOD they totally revampled the series, and brought it back on track, with great controls, upto date tech both in game and to make the game. frech outlook and charecter development, instead of lara just going through th mpotions, as her previous adventures she develops and changes as a person as different things happen to her, we see depth nd emotion. the graphics are as visualy stunning as the TR1 graphics were 10yrs ago.


i could choose to fucus on the negative, but as an experienced gamer i know what makes a good game,. and it ainlt length it is imersion, and TRL imersed me and many others. i have only hope and anticipation for the future TR games.

beccaxx

TRBeth
23rd Apr 2006, 19:13
Sorry, but I don't agree that TR was "close to death" after AOD. Eidos made mega millions off of AOD, otherwise they would not have ever brought Lara Croft back for Legend. Lara Croft is an international icon that PUT EIDOS ON THE GAMING MAP. They know a good thing when they see it and are trying to keep the franchise alive and fresh. This is good, but more research into "who Lara is" and "what she does" is needed.

Eidos is smart. I think they know what their mistakes were and will correct them next go-round....even if they have to spend more to make more [like adding 2 DVD's, if necessary] to make this game seriously good. The bottom line is, do they want to milk whatever they can get out the millions of TR fans? Or do they want to make the best game ever and carry the franchise to the top for the next 10 yrs?? If they are smart, they know the answer already.

Shake hands with CORE and make amends. With CD's brilliance and forward thinking and CORE's understanding of who and what Lara Croft and TR is, Eidos can put together a game that will rock the gaming industry.

Back to the tombs, and back to tomb raider Croft style.

munchkin
24th Apr 2006, 02:11
really, so what was it after AOD, with many fans hardcore fans, not even bothering completeing the game? It had to be pretty dramatic for most of the AOD developers to get the sack fomr CORE, for CORe to get the boot fomr Eidos as TR devleopers, not exactly full of life was it?

think what you will don't change the facts, and it doesn;t change the fact that TRL is a major positive step for Lara, what ever a vocal minoirty thinks.

beccaxx


Sorry, but I don't agree that TR was "close to death" after AOD. Eidos made mega millions off of AOD, otherwise they would not have ever brought Lara Croft back for Legend. Lara Croft is an international icon that PUT EIDOS ON THE GAMING MAP. They know a good thing when they see it and are trying to keep the franchise alive and fresh. This is good, but more research into "who Lara is" and "what she does" is needed.

Eidos is smart. I think they know what their mistakes were and will correct them next go-round....even if they have to spend more to make more [like adding 2 DVD's, if necessary] to make this game seriously good. The bottom line is, do they want to milk whatever they can get out the millions of TR fans? Or do they want to make the best game ever and carry the franchise to the top for the next 10 yrs?? If they are smart, they know the answer already.

Shake hands with CORE and make amends. With CD's brilliance and forward thinking and CORE's understanding of who and what Lara Croft and TR is, Eidos can put together a game that will rock the gaming industry.

Back to the tombs, and back to tomb raider Croft style.

jimmie66666
25th Apr 2006, 02:38
I am one of those die-hard TR players. I was also very vocal with criticisms pre-game release, judging from trailers and then the demo.

All in all, it was fun, but not comparable to the originals, particularly 1-4. The graphics are certainly a major improvement, but, unfortunately, most pc players can not take advantage of next gen. Still, wo next gen, the graphics are very good.

The gameplay itself was choppy with too short levels, too short themes. What was done with the levels was mostly good....but it ended way too soon leaving the player feeling like s/he was just getting in-to the level and then suddenly, abruptly its over.

The game is walk-through style rather than expansive. If you progress to point C, forget about going back to point B or A. Granted, this happened SOMETIMES in the original games, but not always.

Way too much combat with crews of baddies. TR players want to explore and find, not shoot guns.

And speaking of exploring. Ditch the glittering targets and signposts. Subtlety will win this game back for the TR fans.

The interactive stuff is just annoying. Plain and simple with a BIG ANNOYING. Cut that out Eidos.

The headset should be used sparingly. Perhaps OCCASIONALLY, use it during a cut scene before a level to get info from the tech crew back home, but, for the most part you can cut it out altogether imo. It works for the movies, but not the game.

And bosses? This is not DOOM. Bosses after every level is so monotonous and boring and childish. We do not need to be entertained. We need to be engaged in "what will happen to Lara next". I got more thrills just opening a dark door in previous games than messing around with this interactive gameplay and cartoonish boss stuff.

Please put to rest this james bondish music and get out the old scores. P.L.E.A.S.E.

CD did a very good job with the mansion concept, but, as has been said, it needs to be expanded to include the whole mansion. A mansion with one bedroom and no baths or kitchen just don't make sense, CD. Do the other guys sleep on pool furnature? Give us the mansion in its entirity. It is worth making it a level in and of itself.

Can I say that CD is going in the right direction?? Maybe, if the company will listen to the many threads posted here and elsewhere and, not only "get back to the tombs", but also get back to tomb raider Lara Croft style.

There are some seriously talented TR gamers out there, in these forums and others. Give these gamers a consulting contract and heed their advice when it comes to the next game. TR gamers know what needs to be done with the genre, CD/Eidos, and it is up to you to listen and take this game to the ultimate heights it deserves. Eidos can not rely on old laurels forever to hold TR together.

I say that many things done were a move in the right direction, but keep on moving CD. Read the forums for ideas, complaints, etc. and make a "do" and "not do " list. The not do list is so obvious because so many are saying exactly the same thing. Unless, "next generation" actually refers to the next generation of elementary school age children? Does it?


Totally agree!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! well done.

Tihocan
25th Apr 2006, 13:48
Croft style? Could someone define to me what this is?

I have played Tomb Raider from it's demo on the front of PS2 Magazine, and frankly I don't see what the argument is.

I saw an enjoyable series with a character that was very rarely expanded upon, apart from a childhood spin (and a sudden appearance of Von Croy...).

She had a flimsy backstory, which changed from person to person. Disowned by parents? A fiancee?

Then came AOD. Oh dear. That travesty somehow did well in the marketplace, despite the loss of it's vision guy. Shoddy controls, a clunky slow paced storyline...

Now Legend. I don't see the argument of poor movement.
A small jump? I'd like to see you launch yourself 5 feet in the air.
A clumsy 180 turn? Again, how about you turn around on the spot and begin running in under .5 second. One of the finer improvements on the game is here ability to get to where she's headed.
And storyline. Finally, a solid backstory on who is Lara Croft. And she's a passionate adventurer, unlike any of her static predecessors (and, some may say, her film counterpart...).

Sure, it's a bit short, not so difficult, and a little linear. But a: consider that the work has gone to a different company who had AOD to run off, and b: everyone knows who it's aimed at.

Either enjoy it, or hate it. People here I think are just looking for something to whine about. Really, I'm just glad it's better than the last installment, tenfold.

chaotic33
26th Apr 2006, 19:58
This thread really started out to be DE-polarizing. It's not about whining. I know that all those agility games out there aren't there for nothing: a lot of people like them. I don't mind people liking them. They shouldn't mind me not liking tr legend.
Just DON'T go telling this game has not dramatically changed.
The fact that a lot of people start 'whining' here in stead of silently leaving the floor to all you gamepadders just indicates how much they once enjoyed tombraider and that they care.

thoran6
26th Apr 2006, 21:02
This thread really started out to be DE-polarizing. It's not about whining. I know that all those agility games out there aren't there for nothing: a lot of people like them. I don't mind people liking them. They shouldn't mind me not liking tr legend.
Just DON'T go telling this game has not dramatically changed.
The fact that a lot of people start 'whining' here in stead of silently leaving the floor to all you gamepadders just indicates how much they once enjoyed tombraider and that they care.


AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

sprysiazni
27th Apr 2006, 02:36
Maybe some other company will see the void that AOD and Legend have left and will fill it. I think a company that does this will find itself with a lot of customers.

It's strange...she looks like Lara, but I just don't feel like she is Lara. :([/QUOTE]
i agree fully and thats exactly whats going to happen.someone will make a real game engine,an enhanced tr4 type on a shoe string budget (remember tr1) that will blow them all away.no more clumsy movements.talent comes from the bottom up,not from the top down.:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

pbjpb
27th Apr 2006, 04:09
Maybe some other company will see the void that AOD and Legend have left and will fill it. I think a company that does this will find itself with a lot of customers.

It's strange...she looks like Lara, but I just don't feel like she is Lara. :(
i agree fully and thats exactly whats going to happen.someone will make a real game engine,an enhanced tr4 type on a shoe string budget (remember tr1) that will blow them all away.no more clumsy movements.talent comes from the bottom up,not from the top down.:thumbsup: :thumbsup:


totally! there is a gigantic market for the old style TR type games. TR1-3 sold over 18 million copies! eidos is extremely stupid if they think making TRL type games is where the money is. the company is probably run by a bunch of greedy fat suits who are just as facinated with sparkly, shiny objects as the brain dead pre-teens they peddle games like TRL too.

sprysiazni
27th Apr 2006, 04:56
[QUOTE=pbjpb]the company is probably run by a bunch of greedy fat suits


fat i dont know....suits...bang on.

munchkin
27th Apr 2006, 09:26
the brain dead pre-teens they peddle games like TRL too.

LOL :lol: wel at least i know now that for most of you who dislike TRL all us who like it are relegated to "pre- teens" :nut: dear me not exactly original is it? I mean for as long as theres been vid games whenever anyone has been stretching to find faults they come out with "made for teens...blah blah blah" dear dear.

everytime i come here and see yet more of the same, spread all over the boards all by the same for the most part members, lots of new views on how TRL is fun but the same old gang mostly find it to easy to short, "made for pre teens" let me infomr you all as your obviously so ill informed the average age for gamers is 25+ and guess what? yep thats the age all game designers aim for unless its a game only for kids (spnogebob etc) pree-teen :lol:

beccaxx