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Xdrive
10th Apr 2006, 21:11
Hi, everyone. First post.

Okay, I've been a TR fan since the beginning. When everyone else started hating on the series, I was still enjoying it. So now to get to my question:

Is "Legend" as open-ended as the previous games? Are there as many large areas to explore?

I've played the demo, but the demo level doesn't really give you much freedom to explore, like we had with the earlier games. It plays very well, so don't get me wrong. I love it a lot. But it doesn't really feel like Tomb Raider. There is basically a route that you have to go through and there isn't any alternate routes or even many large open areas as far as that goes. I enjoyed the demo a whole lot. There just wasn't much room to explore in it.

The old TR games seemed a lot more open-ended than the demo level for Legend. Like how in TR3 there were a lot of large open areas to explore.

So is the final game basically like the demo? Or are there more "large" areas to explore in it?

Thanks for reading.

:)

tr1xp
10th Apr 2006, 21:14
The demo is one of the largest areas. There are no large levels, no puzzles, and NO alternate paths.

Xdrive
10th Apr 2006, 21:24
The demo is one of the largest areas. There are no large levels, no puzzles, and NO alternate paths.

Awe man! Are you kidding me? Then it's like they took away the best aspect of the series. :(

I know Legend will be a good game, albeit short. But it sucks that they reworked it to be a Ninja Gaiden, Princ of Persia clone instead of an adventure game.

When I played the demo I was thinking "This is nice and fun for an action game, but it's not really a tomb raider adventure game."

PS: do you know anything about playing Tomb Raider 1 on Windows XP? I can't even get the TR demo to work.

Snap125
10th Apr 2006, 21:30
Don't listen to tr1xp!

There may not be alternative routes (CAN U PLEASE STATE ME ONLY ONE ALTERNATIVE ROUTE TO GO THROUGH A PREVIOUS TR GAME)? But there sure are great puzzles (other then the key searching we had the last ten years) and the levels are HUGE!!!!!!

Don't complain about the game beeing to easy if u sit with the walkthough in front of it ;)

tr1xp
10th Apr 2006, 21:32
Yes...see the link in my sig (http://members.cox.net/tr1xp/)? The information there is acurate 90% (stat pulled out of thin air) of the time, but I have seen subtle differences in the install and playability from PC to PC depending on the chipsets on the mainboard and video cards etc.

Glidos is highly recommended...see the screenshot on that page to see why. It looks better than you could ever have imagined TR1 could look and it enables the ambient music/sounds to play on Windows XP, that you won't hear playing without Glidos.

PS: Yes, don't listen to me. Play the demo and decide for yourself. Was the demo level "HUGE"? It is One of the larger levels (of the 6, yes only 6 + 2 mini levels for 8 total) in the game. Tomb Raider 3 had alternate routes for most all the main sections of the game. I have NEVER used a walkthrough for a Tomb Raider game. It's unthinkable!

Snap125
10th Apr 2006, 21:43
The first level in my oppinion is the shortest!

I don't know. I have played for 13 hours now and not quite finished England. I think Kasachstan is big. And also Ghana there are big areas in this level.... don't u think?

BTW.: I have played all Tomb Raider Games and build levels myself... so it's not like my clumsiness that made me play 13 hours.... :D

But i don't know about the alternative routes i mean... really .. where are they in the previous games?

L Croft
10th Apr 2006, 21:51
I think the game is a bit easier than previous games, its usually rather obvious where to go next so not that much exploring is needed. There is nothing like in TR1 when you were in the colleseum and there were five ways you could go, there is only ever one. But it is good fun and the gold secrets usually require some sort of detour.

munchkin
10th Apr 2006, 22:14
hi,

just before i had TRL, i had replayed TR1, let me say this now, TR1 is a classic, yes? it is acualy fairly linier, there are some explorable areas, but they are quite small, and there is one path to take to finish a levle, etc.

TRL to me felt alot like the first TR. slightly less puzzles, and key fetching :) and no Trex, but there is a big suprise, lurking in some of the levels.


my advice, ignore, anyone elses view, even mine, play it with no fears, or concerns form other people. and hopefully you will feel it is great, but you will feel it from your point of view, no one elses. :)

beccaxx

tr1xp
10th Apr 2006, 22:23
my advice, ignore, anyone elses view, even mine, play it with no fears, or concerns form other people. and hopefully you will feel it is great, but you will feel it from your point of view, no one elses.


...and you may well be quite angry you just wasted $39.99 - $49.99 for 1/3 of what you would get with any other typical game. Yes, even the modern, short ones...this one is 1/3 that length and is about 50% cut scenes. If you skipped them all, the game would be like 2-3 hours long. With them it's 4-6.

...or you may say, yeah, it's only 4 hours long, but I will play it happily 4 more times, so it's all good. Personally, I can't see playing it more than twice, and the second time it will be just out of nostalgia and will be quite boring.

Lone Raider
10th Apr 2006, 23:08
I am actually playing TR3 again right now. (Lara's parked somewhere in India and waiting for me so I'll be quick).
India. Two ways to enter the temple.
Pacific Islands: Two ways to enter the temple.
London:Well, one way, but loads and loads of backyards to explore in between.
When I come across more alternative ways, I'll post them. Or you can read about them at Stella's...

my advice for you? Go and rent TRL. It's not worth the money. Sadly. I finished it in twelve hours, and I'm one of those stupid pple who couldn't finish the other games without walkthroughs. Yes.

Snap125
11th Apr 2006, 09:21
Don't tell me the game is 2 horus long!!! And 2 more hours cutscene... thats just not true.

Oh and if u consider this in TR3 an alternative route... in Bolivia u can jump directly onto that platform to throw down the stone are climb over ledges.... and in the very beginning u can either jump over the river or climb up over hte rocks ;)

-Dizzy-
11th Apr 2006, 09:30
I know Legend will be a good game, albeit short. But it sucks that they reworked it to be a Ninja Gaiden, Princ of Persia clone instead of an adventure game.
It's more like those two games you just mentioned.

In TR1 you might come to an area which has about four large rooms, and you have to work out what to do next.

In this game it's like Prince of Perisa, it's pretty straightforward in what you do. You go from point A to point B, you won't ever get lost.

FrozenFire
11th Apr 2006, 10:36
I really love Tomb Raider Legend, but compared to the old TR games, there is nothing to explore. Even Prince of Persia involves more exploration. I'm not kidding.

But don't let this put you off. If you liked the demo and accept that Legend is different from the other Tomb Raiders, you will be able to enjoy it as much as I did.

The people who say it's too easy, too short and too linear are definitely right. They are also right if they say it's not like the old games, but I think it doesn't even try to be like them. It's a new game and a good one in my opinion.

midroth
11th Apr 2006, 10:51
I'll make it short.
For me - I like TR1-TR4 more. Sorry.

How was it? Quality before content!

Cat Valentine
11th Apr 2006, 12:15
There is no escaping the fact that TRL is short, its unlike any other TR game in the sense that the "missions" (levels) can be and for time trial mode need to be completed quickly. I've completed the "story" and am now going back to collect secrets and do the time trial mode. The 1st level needs to be done in under 12 minutes, easy, the second i think has a time limit of around 25 min or so, the 3rd about 15 min, 4th about 15 min too. I'm sure someone can provide the accurate times but all in all the levels can be completed so quickly.

I agree with a poster above, there is NO real puzzles (ones that require thought and effort), and there is NO exploration.

I do love TRL, it looks amazing, and this game is better than no game, but its not TR in the traditional sense

C
Xxx

Xdrive
11th Apr 2006, 14:01
Thank you for the responses so far, people. I'm glad to read what you have to say about it.

That's what I was afraid would be the case. They took away a lot of the adventure and made it a short action game, like they were going for more of a "movie" feel unlike the old TR games.

I really, REALLY hope they do another TR game and the next time around, make it more of an adventure game. That was all I was really looking forward to for Legend, to be honest.

smlaci
11th Apr 2006, 14:18
about alternative paths : in tr4 when you play that game with chess-like pieces with that god, you have a path to go if you win and another if you loose. but that's not the point, the puzzles were great, labyrinths, and everything was very intelligent and creative. i think CD should take a book of "funny math for kids" where you find a lot of puzzles of different levels of difficulty, and easily transform them into gameplay situations, and research, research, research... ancient civilizations had great puzzles and labyrinths, just watch discovery channel. in my opinion that is a true tomb raider game: solving the puzzles and outsmarting the ancients, finding the artefacts, cause that's what you do, you are an archeologist, the famous archeologist adventurer Lara Croft.

lllll
11th Apr 2006, 14:48
And it is not just about altenate paths, but about areas you can explore which have nothing to do with the game.

Meaning, you don't have to go to those areas to finish the level, but you can if you want to hang out and explore. Not 1 level of TRL has that....you are directed like a brainless robot to the next checkpoint and are forbidden to explore by invisible walls :thumbsup:

Mangar The Dark
11th Apr 2006, 14:56
about alternative paths : in tr4 when you play that game with chess-like pieces with that god, you have a path to go if you win and another if you loose. but that's not the point, the puzzles were great, labyrinths, and everything was very intelligent and creative.

Well TR4 kicked ass. Best ever TR game. It took everything that worked in the first game and expanded on it, making it even better. Since I still haven't played Legend, I shouldn't really say TR4 is the best ever... who knows? I may think Legend beats it. But for now, for me, TR4 perfected the formula better than any other TR game.

RAZMAT
11th Apr 2006, 15:07
i only have the demo right now but ,yes, it seems very linear to me so far.in other tr games you could go maybe 4 ways sometimes. even those sections were rather large and would require many times to solve something there in order to open something along one of the other routes.some other tr's had like 30 or more levels.big levels.whats with the animal cruelty thing.i mean ,is it o.k. to kill humans but not animals?people hunt in real life and it's legal.

GoranAgar
11th Apr 2006, 15:09
people hunt in real life and it's legal.
But it shouldn't be. :rolleyes:

RAZMAT
11th Apr 2006, 15:18
i agree it should'nt be but in the game lara apologizes when she kills animals and not humans.in a way i would think humans are more important.

GoranAgar
11th Apr 2006, 15:21
The humans could have stayed at home. The kitty was at home. ;)

Mangar The Dark
11th Apr 2006, 15:25
The humans could have stayed at home. The kitty was at home. ;)

Exactly.
Reminds me of when my neighbor (a deer hunter) told me "The deer are really viscious sometimes!" Um, excuse me, the deer didn't walk into your house with a rifle and shoot you in the head while you were eating your dinner, did they?

miss_L
11th Apr 2006, 23:19
LOL :D OMG you crack me up

But are you all being serious now? :( I mean, honestly it takes a seriously cruel person to shoot a guy in the head but feel sorry killing a vicious rabid animal -- aren't those leather boots she's wearing?

:confused: So its OK to wear leather boots and a leather backpack made from the skins of dead animals who were helplessly slaughtered in a abbatoir with no chance of escape and may even have still been alive when their skins were ripped from their bodies (according to documentaries anyway) but not ok to kill an attacking wild creature in self defense? Um, priorities becoming a little weird here, sorry ;)

3dmdesblood
12th Apr 2006, 06:36
alright, I agree with most upstairs, exclude those rages and misjudges.


1.basically like the demo?
yes, it's generally part of the first stage, so it makes the demo of the whole game.

2.more "large" areas to explore in it?
yes, this is not one of the biggest scene in this game. Remembered the first stage in every generation of TR, aren't they just the same way, just to get used to the operating and find some pass way ahead? So, there is truely more to explore, believe it.

Meanwhile, try to understand what those argues upstairs about, they are infact not meaningless. Some gamer think compare with TRL, the first TR has more free space to explore and usually you have to find the clue to what to do next, that is original and that is great. As a old TRer i of coursely agree, but I also think the change in the TRL is reasonable, it's smart, or even wonderful.

The map of TRL isn't so large, but this is more real and more human. first, to walk around in a big desolate place is dull and lonely, don't argue with me, i know how it feeling like and that is the original spirit of this game, but it is empty, lonely. and that's is not popular today. Nowadays, hardly any people have patience to take 30+ hours to finish a game, specially with nearly half of the time sticking around. They will easily give up when stucked. So in this part TRL made more compact and clear, go straight to resolve the puzzlef, keeping up pace of modern time. (Some may say not really too small, but at lest you needn't worry get lost anymore.;) )

More important, the puzzle part does not decrease a bit, it's more fresh and challenging with more actions in new engine.

In conclusion, the TRL is smaller and more elaberate, view is beautiful, gameplay is smooth and enjoyable. Great!

Faye
12th Apr 2006, 12:12
I am not sure, but I think that leather comes from animals that are getting killed for meat anyway. As opposed to fur, where animals get killed just for the sake of the fur. Plus I'm not sure that there is som much cruelty involved in their deaths as their is in the deaths of animals killed for fur.

Like I said though, I'm not sure, I could be wrong.

To be honest, I don't think Lara cares much. According to the Core Design books, she does have some humanitarian leanings (raising awareness of modern slavery), but I can't remember if she's ever been bothered about animal rights. I think she has a certain respect for animals though. But she puts her interests first. Which isn't that crazy, but nobody's forcing her to go into the wilds. I guess it comes down to, do what you want to do and kill the animals in the process, or make yourself go without raiding tombs and let them live. I suppose doing what she wants to do is a higher priority, which again isn't that crazy...it may seem selfish, but most humans ultimately are.

Cat Valentine
12th Apr 2006, 13:07
Maybe in the next TR they could just introduce Tranq Darts....didnt they already feature in a TR game before? If so, bring em back, if not, just use them, then she wont have to feel guilty about killing animals...or for that matter humans :)

C
Xxx

movieman
12th Apr 2006, 13:11
Well, I still feel bad about shooting kitties. They could at least make them less fluffy creatures in the next one, like giant spiders or something... or provide methods of avoiding them rather than killing them.

Shehi
12th Apr 2006, 18:00
Hi, everyone. First post.

Okay, I've been a TR fan since the beginning. When everyone else started hating on the series, I was still enjoying it. So now to get to my question:

Is "Legend" as open-ended as the previous games? Are there as many large areas to explore?

I've played the demo, but the demo level doesn't really give you much freedom to explore, like we had with the earlier games. It plays very well, so don't get me wrong. I love it a lot. But it doesn't really feel like Tomb Raider. There is basically a route that you have to go through and there isn't any alternate routes or even many large open areas as far as that goes. I enjoyed the demo a whole lot. There just wasn't much room to explore in it.

The old TR games seemed a lot more open-ended than the demo level for Legend. Like how in TR3 there were a lot of large open areas to explore.

So is the final game basically like the demo? Or are there more "large" areas to explore in it?

Thanks for reading.

:)

Hey XDrive,

Game is awesome. If you are good gamer, you should already have played a lot of games. And you will definitely understand that old TR games had large areas to explore because of their graphic engine, which was low end. I remember first time when I played Lost Artifact pack - my PC was loading it so late, that I was about to hate the game, thanks God it was short. Maybe you played it on PS those days, but PC gamers will agree with me - early versions, in nineties were pain to load. But after TR4 things got easier - why? Game was still using old engine. That is why we had largest ever areas to explore. I believe it was one of Core's reasons why they kept same engine til AOD. But when it comes to new technology, you can't have that large open areas. If you played Operation Flashpoint, you should know how large its map is and how crappier its graphics are. Reason is the same. So, what we have in Legend - is a gift for us, we must thank CD for their success. Having large open areas with such graphics is a HUGE success in CGI. Trust me. You simply CAN'T have any larger areas unless you agree the load time of game be measured in boring long minutes. I don't think anyone here would agree to that, we already saw majority of people complaining for the same reason when AOD was released. So from quality/performance ratio point of view, Legend is success. Really. And maybe you won't accept this, but its a fact for me: Tomb Raider MOST probably will be this way from now on, as long as it adapts itself to the current technology. I know it is not good, but it is what can be done, its a limit. Otherwise, they will have to be ready to encounter more complaints from you for: 1. long loading times, 2. for bad performance because of large maps. That is what I can tell from my expertise.

P.S. Goran, when I press EDIT button it does not work somehow. I have to open it in a new window/tab each time. Just to let you know.

gthsii
12th Apr 2006, 18:47
"old TR games had large areas to explore because of their graphic engine, which was low end" -- what? are you high? (Or perhaps you played it on the PS, which was a joke...talk about jaggies). The engine in TR1 was cutting edge at the time. It was one of the first engines to take advantage of 3dfx Voodoo graphics. It was the reason I spent a ton of money on a 3dfx card - just to drive TR1 to the max. No other game at the time came close, IMHO.

Shehi
12th Apr 2006, 19:05
There I was referring to the time when TR4 released...

And as you said yourself, tones of money were required to have better gfx on TR1 time. Do you think people would like to do the same again? At least developers managed somehow make the game which suits all kind of graphic cards, from low-end 128MB ones to high end 512MB ones, which is an incredible achievement.

gthsii
12th Apr 2006, 19:09
are u talking about TRL? i haven't tried it on a lower graphics card...FEAR made me upgrade to an nvidia 7800 so TRL just screams with that card.

|DAWG|
12th Apr 2006, 21:31
Exactly.
Reminds me of when my neighbor (a deer hunter) told me "The deer are really viscious sometimes!" Um, excuse me, the deer didn't walk into your house with a rifle and shoot you in the head while you were eating your dinner, did they?

Unless you are a vegan that argument holds no water ( even then it's a thread bare argument ). Humans are omniverous, which means we require meat and vegetables to survive. That's why most if not all vegetarians and vegans require supplements so they don't die of malnutrition. Hunting for fun is in my opinion a pointless act, however those who hunt to eat are simply following nature. How about we try telling the lion it can't hunt the gazelle anymore because it's cruel.

Like I say I don't hunt and don't see the excitement in it, that doesn't make it wrong. If I ever decide to raid tombs for real you can bet your bottom dollar, that if a wild eyed slavering beast charges me, then it's him or me. Animals we are after all, bald and somewhat smarter ( although that's debatable ) but we are only following an instinct bread into us before history began.

Resy
13th Apr 2006, 05:46
Personally I only shoot the animals if they attack... like the monkeys in TR3. They only start attacking/stealing your items after the second level. I never shot one in the first.

I've only played the demo but am totally loving what I have experienced so far. I have all the old games for the PS and the PS2's AoD. Since the anouncement of TRL I've been going back and replaying all the others and needless to say I'm pleased with what I see. As far as the "vast multi path" levels? I haven't seen enough to know. But really none of the other TR games really gave you much of a choice. Sure maybe take the high road instead of the low road. But the same key or switch was needed to open the same door in the end. Now if there were different exits... yes that to me is multi path. As for "vast" levels. I'll agree with earlier statements. The poor graphics engine... how things tended to be faded/just not there if you were to far away do make things seem larger.

I'd say the controls for Lara actually remind me of Prince of Persia (which is a good thing) and Blood Rayne II (which is a good thing) easy to handle. I have the demo on my PC but am getting the PS2 version. I think what I will miss though from the other games is the look function. So far we just have binoculars for that? Anyway...

TR2 and TR4 are my favs of the old ones.

Shehi
13th Apr 2006, 08:11
So far I guess the biggest challenge in game was killing the snake beast near King Arthur's tomb... In almost all forums, fans ask help for that part of game. Just a bare statistics...

NaughtyGirl
13th Apr 2006, 10:47
I use a walkthrough....and? Still doesn't make the game easy. I equate it to reading instructions before putting something together.

Also I wastes...WASTED $50 with AOD and it was long (unbearingly so with all the bugs....:p ), actually feel okay with what I spent on Legend, it looks like someone actually worked long and hard on it! But just in case....I got another game for 20 bucks so the money will even out, plus Final Fantasy XII will be out in August....now there is a game that will give beauty, length, everything I could every want!

But I'm liking Legend so far. and my wakthrough. And still won't be done in no 6 hours!!

I'm an ijit :D