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Legend
9th Apr 2006, 06:06
I know that I haven't posted much nor been a major contributor in this forum but I am going to voice my concerns, beliefs and opinions about the recent criticism that the members of this board have placed upon Tomb Raider: Legend.

With that said, just stop. There have been countless threads, post and rants complaining about the length. Some posts have been very mature and are incredibly understandable. But when members start using cuss words like "crap" and others, it is becoming too much. Voicing your opinion is perfectly fine but when you bash something so many people have worked so hard on, you are acting like a three year old. The so-called "Tomb Raider Fans" have shown a huge amount of immaturity. Eidos and Crystal Dynamics have worked so hard on this game, pouring countless hours, some of which were very stressful. They were often in heated debates because of whom? The fans and making sure they got what they wanted and what they believed they deserved. Can you imagine; reading posts about people saying your work is crap? That would cut deep but most importantly, it isn't needed. I can't stress how much effort, time, energy and money Eidos and Crystal Dynamics have continually poured into this game. They went to work every day and vented their entire soul and effort into this project all because of us, the fans! Yes, I am but a fan myself and I might sound like someone from Eidos or Crystal Dynamics but all I am is a fan who knows that Lara Croft's legacy deserves more respect than this. When it comes down to it, it's a game and some of you are getting too worked up. We have been honored with a stunning game that we should all be thankful for. So honestly, just stop and maybe, grow up a little and treat Eidos, Crystal Dynamics and all their hard work with respect and dignity.

For all of those that have shown maturity, I am sure you have put smiles on the faces of the Eidos and Crystal Dynamics staff.

MADVDPRODUCTIONS
9th Apr 2006, 06:15
I totally agree. I mean they worked so hard and were not even thankful that it is out and completeted in time for our hands to control. I dont get most people.. It seems like this world can never satisfy people.

RAZMAT
9th Apr 2006, 06:40
they also make millions from this game and the people who buy it.

wgell
9th Apr 2006, 06:51
I and others who are not happy are darn well entitled to be unpleased and will say what we darn well like. We were promised a focus on puzzles and exploration and a return to Lara Croft's roots. We got a 3rd person action adventure where in one level the character is jumping about shooting people in her suspenders. We also got half a game. We were told that Eidos and CD had listened to the fans. They clearly haven't. We have been lied to and sold a turkey again.

Only by complaining again and again and again and then some more will things change. I hope the game gets slated by the gaming press but I doubt it will because such banal nonsense in games seems to appeal to them.

Rascalius
9th Apr 2006, 06:55
Yeah, those poor, little millionaires, sob-sob. The game's disappointing and they're still rich - they don't need you to stick up for them, Legend. Also, this is a forum, where people have their say, if you don't like what people say - stay away.

buck
9th Apr 2006, 08:28
well done legend nice post. i am completely fed up with the childish winging of the people on this site.

one thing i would like to add is this. the original tombraider is 10 years old and many of us who originally played it are now in our mid 20s or early 30s
back then games not just tombraider would take ages to do.

the problem is peope have changed if you put someone aged between 12 - 19 one the original tombraider now and even if you remade it with new graphics like legend, i can guarantee that they would not be able to handle it they would get bored and frustrated. what CD have done is try to bring tomb raider to the new genaration of younger players.

so to us veterans of tomb raider we find it to easy and to short. what CD needs now is constructive criticism not childish people slagging them of for their attempts.

also for those out there who complain its to short. how about another popular game series (resident evil) those games you could complete within 10 hours and on reruns you could do it in less than 3. in fact you were incouraged to to unlock bonus features.

My point being. after playing those games once they wernt scary anymore but we still replayed them for the experience. this can also be said of legend it may be short but you could replay it and just enjoy the experience the graphics.

i am happy with what CD has done, yes it maybe a bit short and hopefully CD will make the next one bigger but at least i can now introduce my son to the tombraider experience knowing that the game is paced in such a way that he wont get bored and frustrated..

sory this post is so long

knightgames
9th Apr 2006, 08:36
They're getting rich!!!!!!!

I'm sure there are a few making tons of money off of games we buy....... but I'm even more sure the majority of coders....artists....and layout designers are getting a normal salary. It's called making a living.

On top of that it takes an average of several years to make an A list video game. Do the math.

That being said ..... I'm probably going to wait to get TRL. I was dissappointed in AoD, and from all I've read and seen in demos and movies TRL looks like a PoP knock off. At the very least it now looks more like PoP than the TR I love.

Us fans are a fussy bunch. There are things in TR that appeal to me....and I hope to the majority who have played through it's ten year history. The evolution of TR has seemed to leech out some of the things I really like about TR games. Instead of improving and adding to what made it great it subtracted and then cloned other gameplay elements from popular newer games. (bullit time anyone?)

I applaud CDs efforts. I'm glad Eidos hasn't abandoned TR, but TRL feels like its moved to far from its roots, thus changing its identity.

Straw Dog
9th Apr 2006, 08:44
sory this post is so long

Don't be, nice post, well put. I agree 100%. CD have clearly gone to a lot of effort to bring us a 21st century way forward for the TR series. Unfortunately the negative minority are just not getting it and can do nothing but bring up examples of the past, examples that play very differently in their memory to how they do on screen, examples that are dated and (as they would quickly realise) no longer cut it if they were reinstated. These people would complain no matter what they got, I guarantee you that. Thats why its pointless arguing directly with them. Its a good thing we have developers as talented as Crystal Dynamics out there who don't dwell in the past and look at ways of moving with the times.

Snap125
9th Apr 2006, 09:59
I am so fed up with all the people complaining about the game in a way that to me seems completely illogical!

See! I read posts where people do actually complain about the control system which has always been the most criticised thing in the old games. I believe those people also were the ones that criticised the old control system as well!

I love Legend and i have played it for 10 hours and am not even half way through it! If u computer nerds sit in front of it all day and night long to play it through in 6 hours that is your problem. And by the way... this game has a constant quality level that has not been there in other computer games! Maybe u would be happy if there had been 10 hours of plain walking around like in the old Tomb Raider games added.

I mean just compare the old threads when Crystal Dynamics got the job with all the cheering in them with threads actually demanding of giving the job back to Core Design!!!

U people from Crystal Dynamics did a great job! Don't listen to these nhappy sad people that complain about ponytails hanging through a neck ;-) They have no clue of how much work it is to put something like this on the feet! U got laras attitude just perfect! This IS Lara as I know her!

All the big critics of the game I suggest that u use your customer rights! Take the game ... the bill and return the game to the store in exchange for the money or another game and STOP the whining in this Forum!

I honestly wish u that there will be no more Tomb Raider games and the franchises is just thrown to rubbish cuase this seems to be the only way to give u what u want and to satisfy u!

Excuse my angry word! It's just ... reading so many bad things about a thing i love. None personal :p :D :p

Legend
9th Apr 2006, 13:21
Yeah, those poor, little millionaires, sob-sob. The game's disappointing and they're still rich - they don't need you to stick up for them, Legend. Also, this is a forum, where people have their say, if you don't like what people say - stay away.

Since when do people with money stop becoming humans? These are good people we are talking about and you are making them sound like an enemy. This isn't entirely about the creators. It's about being mature. Voice your opinion! Tell Eidos and Crystal Dynamics you're mad but do it in a mature and respectable way. I’m sure Eidos and Crystal Dynamics will take your criticism in if you don’t act like a three-year-old.

lllll
9th Apr 2006, 13:59
You guys are so wrong.
If you don't complain, they will make the same mistakes in the next TR.

I have paid money for this game, Santa didn't give it to me for free, so I have a RIGHT to deliver critic about it being short, easy and not worth buying, but only renting for a week :thumbsup:
Read around on other forums, a majority are NOT happy....in fact they voice their opinion a bit harsher than here....we are being nice here compared to them.

Do not attack the ones who deliver critic, it actually shows you are not mature :thumbsup:

Legend
9th Apr 2006, 14:06
You guys are so wrong.
If you don't complain, they will make the same mistakes in the next TR.

I have paid money for this game, Santa didn't give it to me for free, so I have a RIGHT to deliver critic about it being short, easy and not worth buying, but only renting for a week :thumbsup:
Read around on other forums, a majority are NOT happy....in fact they voice their opinion a bit harsher than here....we are being nice here compared to them.

Do not attack the ones who deliver critic, it actually shows you are not mature :thumbsup:

How many times do I need to say this? I've said there is nothing wrong with criticism but my point was, just show your anger in a mature way. Using cuss words and putting down the game with harsh words isn't going to get you anywhere. Go ahead! Make hundreds of threads and posts complaining! Tell Eidos and Crystal Dynamics over and over again that it was too short. But do it with respect and maturity! That's all I'm saying.

lllll
9th Apr 2006, 14:09
And I am saying that you guys should stop insulting us by saying we act like 3 year olds and all while we have a RIGHT to deliver critic after paying considerable money for a game that was not worth it....ok? It goes both ways :rolleyes:

melviso
9th Apr 2006, 14:11
Frankly, CD tried but then everyone is free to cry, yell, scream as they want if they want to. Behave like a 2 months old,so be it, this is a free world,forum...call it what u like.
What I would advise is that we should all take it easy with CD as this is their first attempt with TOMBRAIDER.Okay?Surely they are just adapting themselves to this franchise. So plz people lets pat them on the back with one hand and correct them with the other.As they say nobody is above mistakes.
I would conclude with lets take it easy;)

David 070
9th Apr 2006, 14:17
I know that I haven't posted much nor been a major contributor in this forum but I am going to voice my concerns, beliefs and opinions about the recent criticism that the members of this board have place upon Tomb Raider: Legend.

With that said, just stop. There have been countless threads, post and rants complaining about the length. Some posts have been very mature and are incredibly understandable. But when members start using cuss words like "crap" and others, it is becoming too much. Voicing your opinion is perfectly fine but when you bash something so many people have worked so hard on, you are acting like a three year old. The so-called "Tomb Raider Fans" have shown a huge amount of immaturity. Eidos and Crystal Dynamics have worked so hard on this game, pouring countless hours, some of which were very stressful. They were often in heated debates because of whom? The fans and making sure they got what they wanted and what they believed they deserved. Can you imagine; reading posts about people saying your work is crap? That would cut deep but most importantly, it isn't needed. I can't stress how much effort, time, energy and money Eidos and Crystal Dynamics have continually poured into this game. They went to work every day and vented their entire soul and effort into this project all because of us, the fans! Yes, I am but a fan myself and I might sound like someone from Eidos or Crystal Dynamics but all I am is a fan who knows that Lara Croft's legacy deserves more respect than this. When it comes down to it, it's a game and some of you are getting too worked up. We have been honored with a stunning game that we should all be thankful for. So honestly, just stop and maybe, grow up a little and treat Eidos, Crystal Dynamics and all their hard work with respect and dignity.

For all of those that have shown maturity, I am sure you have put smiles on the faces of the Eidos and Crystal Dynamics staff.

yeah ,i agree. i think most tr fans around here are used to huge levels like from the tr editor levels people make.
i have no idea yet how long legend is,but from the screens im guessing cd put more time into shine than game length time.

Legend
9th Apr 2006, 14:29
And I am saying that you guys should stop insulting us by saying we act like 3 year olds and all while we have a RIGHT to deliver critic after paying considerable money for a game that was not worth it....ok? It goes both ways :rolleyes:

Indeed, it does go both ways. The only reason I called some members 'three year olds" was because they were using language that was just plain immature. Hence, they were acting like a child. But I'm happy to see that many members have voiced their opinions using advise and the such and not hurtful words. I take my hat off to you. I am also glad that we have been able to have this discussion in a peaceful manner.

Takashii
9th Apr 2006, 14:30
Well complaining or not.. I just want some creativity in this game it's the same thing over and over and over and over and over again. This being harsh or immature in any way has nothing to do with this It's just my opinion.

Legend
9th Apr 2006, 14:37
Well complaining or not.. I just want some creativity in this game it's the same thing over and over and over and over and over again. This being harsh or immature in any way has nothing to do with this It's just my opinion.

I'm not following...there was nothing harsh nor immature about your comment. But your signature is another story.

catbazza
9th Apr 2006, 14:47
Hi,
Only my 2nd post in this new forum, allthough had a few posts in the old forums.
An in the process of playing Legends & am really enjoying doing so.
YES IT'S DIFFERENT! so what!, all new games are different, what would it be like if they were all the same,'BORING'.
Get a life all you moaning minnies, why did you buy Legend's, did you expect it to be a follow on from AOD, & be able to rattle straight through it & say aint I a clever boy then.
You are reminisent of the old apple barrel, there is allways a few rotten ones at the bottom.
Glad to get that off my chest.
Nuff said.:p

imported_True_Patriot
9th Apr 2006, 14:48
well done legend nice post. i am completely fed up with the childish winging of the people on this site.

one thing i would like to add is this. the original tombraider is 10 years old and many of us who originally played it are now in our mid 20s or early 30s
back then games not just tombraider would take ages to do.

the problem is peope have changed if you put someone aged between 12 - 19 one the original tombraider now and even if you remade it with new graphics like legend, i can guarantee that they would not be able to handle it they would get bored and frustrated. what CD have done is try to bring tomb raider to the new genaration of younger players.

so to us veterans of tomb raider we find it to easy and to short. what CD needs now is constructive criticism not childish people slagging them of for their attempts.

also for those out there who complain its to short. how about another popular game series (resident evil) those games you could complete within 10 hours and on reruns you could do it in less than 3. in fact you were incouraged to to unlock bonus features.

My point being. after playing those games once they wernt scary anymore but we still replayed them for the experience. this can also be said of legend it may be short but you could replay it and just enjoy the experience the graphics.

i am happy with what CD has done, yes it maybe a bit short and hopefully CD will make the next one bigger but at least i can now introduce my son to the tombraider experience knowing that the game is paced in such a way that he wont get bored and frustrated..

sory this post is so long

Yeah the resident evil games were around 10-12 hour long 1st time through and 3-4 next time but resident evil 4 is something like 18-20 1st play through which is what now a day games should be ;) I was playing through TRL start to end yesterday... I wasn't rushing or anything and I finished it in about 2 hour if I were to go through it without any mistakes I'd probably would have finished it less then an hour :eek:

lllll
9th Apr 2006, 14:50
The first Resident Evil was a blast to play! First game that made me scared while playing :cool:

The others were not that scary.

Snap125
9th Apr 2006, 14:52
Thank god that this tearing appart of the game in the forums won't stop CD from making another good TR game. These few thousand people who make this game so bad only present a minority, just look at the game charts. Tr Legend is a success no matter what...


Don't u think that CD knows that 12 hours of Gameplay (or how long it might be) is a bit short. Clearly their attempt is to make the game more attractive to people who didn't like to play TR.

When i introduced the game to friends of mine who didn't like TR they really liked how the controlls and everything had changed.

Yes. It is true that the gameplay is rather short. But i for my part do not think that it repeats itself over and over and over again. I mean what was it all about int the previous titles? Running around searching for keys!!!!! Good god i frankly had enough key searching. We had it for 6 parts now! So come on. The puzles might be easy but they sure are creative!

U have to bear in mind that CD set this game up from scratch!!!! On the next games they can focus on perfecting the NExt gen mode on most importantly on making a longer and more challenging game!

Look! People at CD are experts and there is nothing more difficult than to deliver software that satisfies completely the wishes of the customer, especially if the customers are so widespread as the buyers of a computer game.

I am positive that next parts of the game will come muth closer to what people expect! We have to give CD a chance!!!!! I know how developers of this game must feel when they put their heartblodd into this baby of theirs... then hearing people talking with absolutely no appreciaton about it!

For people who like the old TR so much i recommend the wonderfull and astonishing set of TR Custom Levels that dedicated TR Fans provide!

;) ;) ;)

Mangar The Dark
9th Apr 2006, 15:35
Get a life all you moaning minnies, why did you buy Legend's, did you expect it to be a follow on from AOD, & be able to rattle straight through it & say aint I a clever boy then.
You are reminisent of the old apple barrel, there is allways a few rotten ones at the bottom.
Glad to get that off my chest.
Nuff said.:p

Thanks for demonstrating just how "mature" people who DO like the game can be.:rolleyes:

David 070
9th Apr 2006, 15:38
anyone know what will be after legend?

also is it too soon for a release date?? lol

Mangar The Dark
9th Apr 2006, 15:43
anyone know what will be after legend?

also is it too soon for a release date?? lol

Way, WAY too soon to say.

I doubt Eidos has any plans just yet. They'll probably see how people react to this game; see what works, what doesn't, and then decide how to progress. That's why it's important for us to talk about what we like and don't like about Legend, to let Eidos know what to do next time.

I wonder if they'll release a "Gold" expansion for Legend? Probably not.

imported_True_Patriot
9th Apr 2006, 15:47
The first Resident Evil was a blast to play! First game that made me scared while playing :cool:

The others were not that scary.

Yeah I know it's awesome:thumbsup: I don't think I'll ever get bored of Resident Evil 4 I could just play that for endless hour no prob. On the other hand I have TRL which I waited a long time for ("Very disappointed").

It would be really lethal if Eidos have something to show at this year E3 like TRL is only a test run or somthing and all this time they where actually working on something else, and that the game would truly begain on PS3 But if this is not the case and I have to wait another two year for a disappointing game I'll be very :mad: cause now that they have the new gaming engine it shouldn't take them that long to make the next TR that what I think is the problem with TRL they worked most of time getting Lara to look and move nice and she does.. ther no problems there and her voice is just so beautiul in this game, I really enjoyed hearing Lara talk... But they forgot about the main objective that is in every TR game "THE PLATFORMING" what the hell happened to all that, did they just forget to put it in the game or something cause that what it feels like when you play TRL.

lllll
9th Apr 2006, 15:51
Fully agree True Patriot :thumbsup:

munchkin
9th Apr 2006, 15:53
hi, legend good point, criticism shoudl be constructive.

I loved the game, completly, best tomb raider for years. nice new start. set up plot, and background brilliantly, and i foud it blended, all the raider elements perfectly, it felt alot like a cross between, tomb raider, 1 + 2, with its own feel to it also. Maybe a tad longer wouidl be nice, but frankly, its about average length for a action game, if one plays it steadily, enjoying the feel and look, and so on.

I also woudl be very dissapointed if they took, zip and alasdair away as i found them to be fabulous, not annoying at all.

final mark 9 1/2 out of ten, just make it a tad longer, and its perfect :)

beccaxx

Seiya174
9th Apr 2006, 15:57
Maybe if you freaking people had something BETTER to do than sit in your parent's basement and play the entire game all the way through in ONE SITTING, it would have more value to you.
GO OUTSIDE!!!

Snap125
9th Apr 2006, 16:12
Maybe if you freaking people had something BETTER to do than sit in your parent's basement and play the entire game all the way through in ONE SITTING, it would have more value to you.
GO OUTSIDE!!!

Ahhh! So there are normal people here :rolleyes:

lllll
9th Apr 2006, 16:49
Maybe if you freaking people had something BETTER to do than sit in your parent's basement and play the entire game all the way through in ONE SITTING, it would have more value to you.
GO OUTSIDE!!!

Insulting people like this shows how mature you are.....another person did this too and I didn't see legend the topicstarter say anything against them, but the ones who are negative about the game can't say these things?

That is hypocritical to say the least ;)

Legend
9th Apr 2006, 16:52
Insulting people like this shows how mature you are.....another person did this too and I didn't see legend the topicstarter say anything against them, but the ones who are negative about the game can't say these things?

That is hypocritical to say the least ;)

Oh, I haven't said anything directly to the other 'side' either. I've voiced my opinion and that's all I wanted to do. I'm not a peacemaker or a maturity police. I've already said that showing immaturity is not needed and if people continue to use it, I can't control that.

Rose662
9th Apr 2006, 17:25
I agree.

Why post angry messages here complaining where Crystal Dynamics will NEVER see them when you can write constructive letters to Crystal Dynamics instead?

Then your grievances will be heard and perhaps taken into consideration for the next game.

I haven't bought the full game yet and will reserve my opinion until I have played it myself.

Joshorty
9th Apr 2006, 18:01
I know...it gets in the way when people criticizes in a "unconstructive" way...especially if prejudice is involved and bad judgement (not to say it's you guys but I know one person by person in my town who used to be anticipated for a game until a site review gave it a 7.6/10 and takes "their opnion" and applies it themselves when they never tried it...hehe hiddenly, he still wants the game:rolleyes: ...sad...)

ShadowOfOblivion
9th Apr 2006, 18:06
Sorry folks but as immature as that one comment by Seiya just was, he has a point. Not every one of us has the luxury of having enough free time to complete the newest Tomb Raider in a single day. I personally work four 10 hour days a week and the day that TR7 comes out in the states, I will have no time to really play Legend or complete it in one seven to nine sitting as you folks like to do. Truth be told it's unhealthy to even go that long with a video game due to seizures, and personally if you cant peel yourself away from the TV screen after 2-3 hours of play, then no offense but perhaps you really DO need to get outside more.

But moving away from insults and on to facts, you all have chosen to ignore the reason why the older Tomb Raiders were so long in the first place. Every Tomb Raider game (except this one) has featured an extreme amount of backtracking, and running back and forth to find a door you just opened halfway across the other side of the level.

So let's figure that seasoned raiders could complete the older games in about 15-20 hours. I'm ready to assume about half of that was backtracking, so you divide that in half and you get this 9-10 hour figure everyone is complaining about.

So bottom line? We got the highest scoring Tomb Raider game in history, without all the annoying backtracking that made TR3 such a difficult game to play. Quit your whining and enjoy the fact TR isn't a 7 and under series anymore.

Vampmaster
9th Apr 2006, 20:06
The only reason TR1 and 2 took so long to complete was that the controls were so terrible. There was about five seconds delay (or two "squares" distance) between pressing the jump button and having her actually take her feet off the ground or get on to a climbable object. Same when falling down a slope, you pressed jump to kick off and then after the delay in getting off the ground, if she needed to flip, the camera would also flip, causing the the direction buttons to do the oposite to what they did a second earlier. Also, in TR1 when there's that giant creature on the platform and you have to run circles around it without falling off the edge, the contols where left and right rotate her rather than move her in those directions made it so she couldn't turn fast enough before falling off the edge. The grid mechanism, made it so you had to do a three point turn like driving a car just to get around certain corners, which is a completely unrealisic movement for a human character and unintuitive for getting the character to move around. As well as that, there was no way for Lara to shift her weight left or right once she'd left the ground, so you were stuck in the same trajectory as when you took off. Where as many of the jumps seemed to require that. The game required you to press or hold an unnessacarilly complicated sequence of buttons to perform an action that would in theory be really simple.

I guess some people like that type of thing, but IMO those people would also enjoy repetive strain injury. Having played TR1, 2 and part of 3, Legend is the only one that actually seemed fun to play. It's only the demo that I've played yet, but even if I manage to race through the game in 5 hours like everyone is claiming they did on their first attempt, that doesn't make it the faliure some people are saying it is.

David 070
9th Apr 2006, 20:07
maybe there are unlocked areas u guys didnt get to???:confused:

Shehi
9th Apr 2006, 20:37
Since when do people with money stop becoming humans? These are good people we are talking about and you are making them sound like an enemy. This isn't entirely about the creators. It's about being mature. Voice your opinion! Tell Eidos and Crystal Dynamics you're mad but do it in a mature and respectable way. I’m sure Eidos and Crystal Dynamics will take your criticism in if you don’t act like a three-year-old.

This reminds me young students in our university, communists, who says "Damn McDonalds, Imperialist blah blah. Get Out McDonalds from blah blah" without even thinking what they are doing. And next day you see them drinking Cola :) . Rich people are bad, you know, *sarcastic here* because they earn and earn from hard work they put forward, because they never lose... Oh... Dejavu, I say here :)

Resident Evil X
9th Apr 2006, 20:39
I totally agree. I mean they worked so hard and were not even thankful that it is out and completeted in time for our hands to control. I dont get most people.. It seems like this world can never satisfy people.



I completely Agree..thank you Crystal Dynamics..you guys did an awsome job.
and also Dont forget people..there will be another Tomb Raider..and from all these complaints..it will have what you seek. so calm down and enjoy this great game.

lllll
9th Apr 2006, 20:44
then no offense but perhaps you really DO need to get outside more blablabla


Stop whining about people who have a legit complaint and if you can stop the down-talking of people it would show you are an adult too :thumbsup:

ShadowOfOblivion
9th Apr 2006, 21:58
Stop whining about people who have a legit complaint and if you can stop the down-talking of people it would show you are an adult too :thumbsup:

You have a legit complaint because you spent hours in front of the TV playing a game, when manuals suggest you should take a break every 1-2 hours of play.

Metal Gear Solid (PS1) took me two days to complete, and yet nobody complains about the length of that game..they regard it as legendary (no pun intended).

I guarantee you, if you were one of the people in this world who doesn't have the luxury of free time you'd think this game was longer.

Bad controls + backtracking = the reason the older TR's were so long.

tr1xp
9th Apr 2006, 22:23
But moving away from insults and on to facts, you all have chosen to ignore the reason why the older Tomb Raiders were so long in the first place. Every Tomb Raider game (except this one) has featured an extreme amount of backtracking, and running back and forth to find a door you just opened halfway across the other side of the level.

Um. No. It's because the older Tomb Raiders had 15-20 levels. TRL has 6 (+2 little 5 minute mini levels) and every one was bigger and more open than the ones in TRL. So not even half the number of levels, and the few that exist are not even half as large, physically or as far as number of puzzles and obstacles contained within.

It's because the older games had intelligent, more difficult puzzles that required you to gain the clues all over the level, then use them to throw switches/move objects/light torches in sequence etc. just to get into one of the rooms that contains only one of the 3 keys you need, and TLR has nothing that can even be called a puzzle. Move 3 glimmering boxes onto 3 highlighted pressure pads. End. Move 3 glimmering metallic balls onto 3 highlighted indentions in the ground. Duh. This is remedial Tomb Raider for dummies.

Auto grab? I'm sorry, where's the challenge in having everything done for you? In the old games the trick was to master the controls so you wouldn't fall to your death, now Lara will spin around and grab the edge for you if you try to fall. Give me a friggin break. I try to walk off a simple, low edge in this game and she spins around and grabs the edge, dangling with her feet 6 inches off the floor. That is just STUPID. It actually interferes with the movement and control of Lara. They may as well have made it point and click. Just click the end of the room and Lara does all the jumps and puzzles for you while you just sit and watch. :mad:

Silver_Rain
9th Apr 2006, 22:55
I have yet to play Legend, so I'm not going to start speaking up for or against it.

What I do feel though is that if people spend $50 on a game, do they not have the right to speak up if they feel they haven't gotten what they paid for???? To sit and say it's the worst game ever and not present a single reason as to why is perhaps immature, but so is orally beheading people who with a good reasoning state they don't like it. I've seen skeptics being flamed in every possible way, but I must say I have yet to see better arguments for the game than "CD had to bring the franchise back from the dead so to say", "it's the best game ever. Period", "it had to develope this way" or "the graphics are the greatest in any TR game".

The way I see it stunning graphics and visuals alone don't make a good game. In a Tomb Raider game there should be an emphasis on exploration, long and enjoyable levels and mind-numbing, yet still rewarding puzzles. Good graphics and an impressive range of moves are more or less the cherry on the pie, the most important thing is that they work the way they're meant to.

I do respect the folks at CD and everyone involved in this project fully and I do realise it's a huge task to be the lead of a franchise like Tomb Raider. But the fact is and remains that they have had about two-three years to complete this game and what they have come up with is a stunning, visual experience that is a lot shorter than any of the previous games. Please, feel free to call me old-fashioned and living in the past and what-not, but Tomb Raider 3(which to me is one of the best games in the series) was 20 levels long, a terrific game and it was released THE YEAR AFTER TR2. Take away the clunky controls and the bugs and infinite errors of AOD and you have a perfectly acceptable game. Why did CD feel they had to spend such a long time creating a "new" Tomb Raider instead of making it a game of acceptable length and with the exploration aspect that is and has always been Tomb Raider??? Isn't is possible to develope a game and move forwards without taking away its main attraction, that which separates it from other games of today???? It doesn't matter whether you play once a week and thus spend two months completing it or if you sit glued to the screen and complete it the same day you got it......it's still the same game and the length of it hasn't changed. All that is different is how much time you dedicate to playing it.

I might very well enjoy Legend and think it's the best game ever once I've tried it. But just because one enjoys a game doesn't mean you have to put on a defensive stance and practically sneer at everyone who doesn't. It's fully possible to give constructive criticism even though you fully enjoy the experience. I love TR3 for instance, but that doesn't mean that I think it's flawless and it doesn't mean that I can't think of anything wrong with it or that I'll jump in the throat of everyone saying it's a bad game and start calling people whiney and immature because they don't like what I do.

Everyone is fully allowed to state their opinion. Just because it differs from mine or anyone elses doesn't mean it's wrong;)

lllll
9th Apr 2006, 23:00
Bad controls + backtracking = the reason the older TR's were so long.

Nice joke.

You missed the point of what TR was about, namely exploring the surroundings and getting used to a location, which means walking around there a lot and checking out every corner...for hours.
There were places were you could go to which had nothing to do with the game but where in the same area. So you didn't have to go to those areas to finish the game but they were put there to just explore for fun. None of that is existent in TRL, the game just forces you to run to the next checkpoint.

The controls of TR were very intuitive, simple and straight forward. If you had problems with those controls blame yourself, I had no problem getting her anywhere where I wanted, very fluent and orchestrated by the one using the gamepad. Now TRL almost plays itself and you feel like Lara is controling Lara, not you. There is a distance between Lara and you now which was not there before.

You obviously are an action-shooter kind of gamer, judging by your posts.....guess what, TR isn't that kind of game, at least it wasn't untill CD started listening to people like you ;)

laraflames
9th Apr 2006, 23:08
i know for a fact this one is gonna be good:D

Joshorty
9th Apr 2006, 23:14
I'm lookin' forward to it still:D ...by May 16 that is...or 23, accordin' to EB/Gamestop..

DABhand
9th Apr 2006, 23:46
Personally ive got to Arthurs tomb, and got a snag with one of the mechanisms not actually lowering a spike trap. But meh on to the topic.


Yes im not a bit happy at how short it seems, it doesnt help when your save game gives you a percentage which makes it feel even shorter.


But the engine (shame about the sound issue which should have been tested more) is very very nice and is a good new platform to base future if any TR games.

With that said, I can see where people who arent pleased are coming from, it is very short as I feel at this moment, the maps/levels arent huge in comparison to previous TR games. Thankfully some areas a bit hard to get you to try several times. But the rest is easy to get through.


But why make a thread about how fed up you are of people complaining, as said a few times already when someone pays money on a game they have a right to voice their concerns or negatives on this forum, it is for everyone and not for the (dare I say it and I dont mean disrespect) "fanboi's" of Eidos.


Sure you may be sick fed up with viewing threads about people complaining, but im sure the same can be said about those people are fed up with the pro-eidos threads also.


So Legend, how would you feel if someone started an anti-fanboi thread. Totally opposite of this one, would you not go and complain in that? Because at the end of the day, you are doing exactly what you said you hated, is complaining in this one anyway. Very strange. But hey :P

Richard_Croft
10th Apr 2006, 02:17
Even though TRL was short, it has that feeling which makes me want to play it again and again. Do any of you remember the first MGS on the PS1? Well, that's how it feels. A short game, but filled with quality stuff and after I have beaten it I crave 2 unlock all the little things, and even when I do I still want to play it again and again just because it is so fun.......plus I prefer it to MGS as the main character is a hot chick! :D

WELL DONE CD u have just set a gateway for future TR's with this great piece of work! :thumbsup:

Resident Evil X
10th Apr 2006, 02:28
I understand this game is like..FF7..yet its short. its perfect yet you wish it had more length..Look, thats understandable but it COULD BE WORSE..CD could of completely!! Killed the TR series and there wouldnt be no more TR. So things could be WAY worse..Look at all the Resident Evil games..all can be beaten in one day..yet we all go back and get everything..still great, and no one ever complains..so BE happy that TRL is a great blockbuster ride..Short yes..Sweet? Hell yes. SO quit it and enjoy it. I prefer TRL to be short..then for TRL be the last and crappiest TR game ever...and did i mention R.I.P Tomb raider??? please think about this before continueing bashing TRL. :thumbsup:

RedIvy
10th Apr 2006, 02:35
Yes i would say TRL has had an excellent makeover and if the game happens to be short, as this seems to be the case( i havnt played the game yet but will soon.) I think just taking some time to look, explore and take in the superb detail of each stage of the game would make would make it all an excellent game play rather than rushing through the stages.

I agree Eidos and CD have worked extremly hard to give us better gaming experience and i would certainly give them the thumbs up :thumbsup: on their creativity and special attention to detail.

MADVDPRODUCTIONS
10th Apr 2006, 04:05
Tomb Raider Legend to me has to be one of the most beautiful games to come out. The design of the levels and the look and feel brings out the world of Tomb Raider. I have played every single Tomb Raider game and I would say Yes i am a fan. Even though I was dissapointed with AOD and the bugs, (she was very hard to control in AOD) I still enjoyed the game and took me awhile to beat the game, once again because of her controls.

I believe, that if you to take her controls from TRL and put in TR1 and all the past series of the game, it will be easier to breeze through the levels because it just beautiful how she controls. I have to say her controls are so fluent and I can never ask for better controls. Although for many years, I have played all the Tomb Raider games over and over, I got to love the controls but feeling this new control scheme I would say very well done Crystal Dynamics. I know that this is their first time being in this franchise, I agree that you did listen to the fans and brought her back.

I understand that there is not much side trekking, I'm just glad that this game is out and that it may not be lengthy as before, but for some people I know who never played Tomb Raider have had trouble figuring out some of the puzzles for Legend.

Even if some people find it short, some people I know that never liked Tomb Raider because of the puzzles, and boring gameplay as so they say, find this one amazing. Tomb Raider Legend found new fans and brough old fans to support them.

For the Tomb Raider vetarans, I believe that this game will be a breeze for us. (Because we are just so use to the series and we were expecting the old Tomb Raider length of the game)

Nevertheless, in my opinion this has to be one the best Tomb Raider games, specially for Crystal dynamics first attempt in the series.

Honestly, lets say Core was never taken out, you think PSM, Xbox magazine, IGN will give Tomb Raider a score of
Xbox 8.0
PSM 4/5 4 out of 5
IGN: 8.2

Now, imagine legend to have the same controls as Angel of Darkness do you think you will enjoy the game more? Or will you find it difficult? Do you think if they place keys all over the world in hidden places with no shiny objects as hints? Do you think you will beat the game in 6-8hours? Keep in mind you have the old controls with legends. Will that be possible?

Now we have Tomb Raider Legends, and the angry people are speaking out saying that they are dissapointed of this game because of its length.. what about the first time you start playing the game and knowing you got 50% done and you kept going.. did you enjoy it? So the first sit through you beat in 6hours. how did you feel in the first 2hours.. were you enjoying the game? I'm sure you were not dissapointed with the game because you stuck out and played some more, hence you were not dissapointed, only to be dissapointed of the disastrous length.

Oh well, we cannot please everyone. We cant say were dissapointed of the whole entire game, but we can say we are dissapointed of the length. As I said earlier people I know, gamers alike who first touched Tomb Raider found the game very appealing and found it to be fun. More fans, more Tomb Raider games..


-As long as we support Tomb Raider they will make more series, hoping that this would be more appreciated and more people will buy it than AOD.

I'd like to say more but, I'm just about done.

lllll
10th Apr 2006, 04:21
^^^ Who are these "we" that you used about 2 dozen times in your post? Can you talk for yourself and not other people?

I was disappointed because it was too easy, I mean kindergarden easy and short with no replay value.
What is the point of playing the game again wearing a different color dress? With cheats that make it even more easy and shorter? Or trying to complete a level in 13 minutes (that is the goal of Bolivia), rushing through the game like Rambo.

And where is the exploring? The game dictates you to go to the checkpoints, not explore areas. All these invisible walls you can't pass while you should be able to go there.

The new fans you talk about are shoot-m-up gamers who want everything easy, fast and no brains involved (like you said in your post too...."boring" puzzles). Well, TR is not a shooter game or even action....but an adventure-exploration game...at least it used to be untill CD started listening to people like yourself.

This was the 3rd worst TR, after AoD and TRC :o

MADVDPRODUCTIONS
10th Apr 2006, 04:56
I’m glad Crystal Dynamics listen to people “like myself”, too bad I didn’t get that opportunity to do so, because I just recently started to voice out my opinions in these forums. I’m not disappointed at all I’m only disappointed of you persistence to voice out your opinion. By the way the 3rd person shooter as you call shoot-m-up gamers who goes through this game with no brains. How did you get that fact? I never mentioned any 3rd person shooter enjoying this game, if they did enjoy this game good for them. Are you implying that First person games involve no puzzle solving or no brains involved. There are many games that have puzzle solving that are first person perspective. I know Tomb Raider is not a shooting game, I could have told you that. It is an adventure and all I’m saying that is what I felt Tomb Raider Legend is..

You are also telling me that this game is worse than Angel of Darkness you must be out of your mind. Although, I do like Angel of Darkness (just bad controls), that has to be the most funny reply I have ever heard in such a long time.

I’m not even attacking nor I was employing about your presence, so don’t talk to me and tell me that Crystal Dynamics started listening to people like myself when I never even gotten the opportunity to do so.. As I said before, I was not around the forums to have gotten that opportunity to voice out my opinion to Crystal Dynamics. At least I have some sense to respond in a proper manner than attack me with your words and directly responding to me about “people like yourself” I men get a life if you come here to repeatedly attack people who don’t agree with you. I don’t need you to respond to me.

“The new fans you talk about are shoot-m-up gamers who want everything easy, fast and no brains involved (like you said in your post too...."boring" puzzles). Well, TR is not a shooter game or even action....but an adventure-exploration game...at least it used to be untill CD started listening to people like yourself.”

movieman
10th Apr 2006, 11:21
I believe, that if you to take her controls from TRL and put in TR1 and all the past series of the game, it will be easier to breeze through the levels because it just beautiful how she controls.

Agreed: the biggest single thing that slowed me down in the earlier games was the lack of control. Something that happens on occasion in Legend (e.g. in Nepal there's a spot where the slightest camera movement would switch the left and right keys over and I'd fall off a collapsing snow bank), but regularly in the earlier games.

Making the game long by repeatedly killing the player due to poor controls is not my idea of fun: in one of the old TR games (I forget which, it's the one where you play the teenage Lara Croft) right in the first level there's a rope swing between two platforms... that would be trivial in Legend, but it took me about fifteen minutes in that game because I could never get the damn controls to work.

That said, this one could have been longer and they could have left out some of the hand-holding (or only turned it on in easy mode). But the only thing I really hated were the boss fights.

GoranAgar
10th Apr 2006, 11:36
Making the game long by repeatedly killing the player due to poor controls is not my idea of fun.
Like that has never happened in any of the other Tomb Raider games ever before. Please. :rolleyes:

movieman
10th Apr 2006, 11:38
Like that has never happened in any of the other Tomb Raider games ever before.

Maybe you should have tried reading my post, then you might have realised that I was _TALKING_ about the earlier games.

GoranAgar
10th Apr 2006, 11:42
Were you? Oh.

RedIvy
10th Apr 2006, 12:02
hey 'sup all?

I agree that Lara was hard to control in AOD but funnily i enjoyed that challenge as with progress through the game i got better and used to the controls so therefore controling her wasnt a problem. I think Kurtis was even harder,but then i also got used to him too and i think all this is the fun part of learning "to go with the flow" of your character, so controling your chracter should be just like getting the hang of the steering wheel and all the padels when you first learn to drive.
I dont want the games or controling the charcters to become any easier because these games are targeted towards teen and adult players and these sorts of challenges should be accepted and appreciated.
I think the game controls are adopted to the whole game play, atmosphere and experience of the game. So AOD did well in this and am not sure about the TRL as I havent played it yet.

DABhand
10th Apr 2006, 12:05
@Goran: Bad Goran :P


@MADVD: You said Angry People, im not angry im a bit disappointed at the length and the "one way" system I like to call it, there wasnt any real exploring as like before, but im sure it will be taken into account hopefully in the next one of the series.

I miss the whole "Oh wonder where that goes" and "Hey a hole to jump through whats through here" feel, to me it was you climb up here to get to here and get to there and next room, that to me is no exploration but getting from A to B.

Also it was, if you dont mind me saying so, a bit big headed of you to say that someone doesnt have to respond to you, it is a forum after all and public at that so expect to be criticised or replied to, its how a forum works :)

GoranAgar
10th Apr 2006, 12:08
@Goran: Bad Goran :P
I know. But at times like these I am not explaining the forum rules to anyone. ;)

imported_True_Patriot
10th Apr 2006, 12:28
I agree with DABhand :thumbsup:

RedIvy
10th Apr 2006, 12:30
I know. But at times like these I am not explaining the forum rules to anyone. ;)

This is just funny, hehe:D

dhama
10th Apr 2006, 12:45
anyone know what will be after legend?

Another game that won't please everyone... ;)

Core Fan
10th Apr 2006, 12:56
i see that a lot of people like it and a lot dont
the ones that like the game seem to be a little offended by the ones who dont like it.



me personaly, i hate the game. its not fun. no puzzles, childish shoot em up bullet dodging combat and so on . controls are smooth but too easy to handle which makes it boring again. Every aspect of the game is boring! But as a Tomb Raider fan I have bought it, played it and Ive added it to my collection. And I will do this with the next one on the shelves too, without a doubt. If you first play Legend, it seems like a dream so I guess its gonna be a hit!
Beautiful photography, dumb action mixed with humor and big boobies is popular in games, movies and pop music (rap music ;) ) .... Sad, but true

But the fact that "fans" like this game, hurts us other "fans" as much as we hurt you by saying that it s*cks. I really dont like reading stuff as : "way the go, cd! this is a real tomb raider" ... Because its not. And THAT is a fact. The game is totaly changed. Only Lara is the same. So the likers have to understand that the die hard Tomb raiders are kind of mad


What if Core and CD shook hands and made the next one together? Core will design and invent and build the script while CD will do all the technical aspects... Sounds good! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

lllll
10th Apr 2006, 12:58
Core Fan, we (the people who did not like it) should watch out.....the voices are getting more radical and they are starting to throw stones while screaming for a jihad :D

Core Fan
10th Apr 2006, 13:05
Core Fan, we (the people who did not like it) should watch out.....the voices are getting more radical and they are starting to throw stones while screaming for a jihad :D

You are exaggerating :thumbsup: ... But yes I feel hate towards us too.

We can hate a game as much as we do but dont hate the haters because they hate something you love :confused: :confused: .. Thats just very imature

dhama
10th Apr 2006, 13:07
I don't dislike it, but i'm with you guys simply because you're standing up for your opinions. :thumbsup:

GoranAgar
10th Apr 2006, 13:14
i see that a lot of people like it and a lot dont
the ones that like the game seem to be a little offended by the ones who dont like it.
...
But the fact that "fans" like this game, hurts us other "fans" as much as we hurt you by saying that it s*cks. I really dont like reading stuff as : "way the go, cd! this is a real tomb raider" ... Because its not. And THAT is a fact. The game is totaly changed. Only Lara is the same. So the likers have to understand that the die hard Tomb raiders are kind of mad

You are right. Everybody who complains or critizises the game here and everybody who defends the game here is probably passionatly loving Tomb Raider and wanting to defend it. The one group wants to defend it against the changes they do not like and the other group against the ranters and "bashers". So,yes, each side is hurting the other.

And you are right: TRLegend IS NOT LIKE THE OLD GAMES. If you want TR like it was, play custom levels. There would have been a huge uproar if TRLegend had been just like TR1 with improved graphics and including a different dinosaur.

lllll stop trying to inflame scuffle. Thanks.

Shehi
10th Apr 2006, 13:15
..... while screaming for a jihad :D

Don't even think of mentioning words about which you have no idea, no knowledge, ok? The word "jihad" is not something to joke about, or use in "funny", not serious debates as a reference to non-sense or sth like that. I am a Muslim and I believe there are plenty of such as me here, so I would strongly suggest we check twice what we post, before we post. Thanks!

Core Fan
10th Apr 2006, 13:18
I dont want TR1: The Remake (i would like a port for PSP and Windows XP though :D )
But I want Tomb raider.... Not "Some New Game" starring Lara Croft... cause honestly I dont care Who is stealing the show.. aslong as I can play my own show :D

dhama
10th Apr 2006, 13:24
The next Tomb Raider title...

"LARA CROFT TOMB RAIDER, QUEST FOR THE FLUFFY KITTEN AND LOST EMBROIDARY"

Core Fan
10th Apr 2006, 13:31
:p lol

imported_True_Patriot
10th Apr 2006, 13:36
If this game was to play like the Prince of Perisa games with the tomb raiding in it, it would've been lethal!!! But sadly it don't.. But hopefully the platforming will be somewere around the same lines as the POP game next time.

GoranAgar
10th Apr 2006, 13:39
I started the first next generation POP and got bored in the second level. So I am glad it is not like PoP.

Do you think there are also original PoP fans who complain about the new installment? :)

Shehi
10th Apr 2006, 13:41
I am HUGE POP fan, and I have no complaints regarding any of these titles... Both are good for their own attributes, which makes gaming world a funny, enjoyable one.

dhama
10th Apr 2006, 13:41
Apart from the little cartoon like jump that Lara does after climbing up a ledge, it's nothing like POP... and i'm glad also. ;)

lllll
10th Apr 2006, 14:23
Apart from the little cartoon like jump that Lara does after climbing up a ledge, it's nothing like POP... and i'm glad also. ;)

Yes, PoP was better than TRL ;)

FrozenFire
10th Apr 2006, 14:26
But the 'prince' is not Lara Croft! :rolleyes:

Verios
10th Apr 2006, 14:30
Yes, PoP was better than TRL ;)

Sands of Time was fantastic...warrior within was kinda bleh but the last one was pretty good..although a little short...*cough*

MADVDPRODUCTIONS
10th Apr 2006, 15:09
I'm not referring to you.. I was just referring to llll I mean he keeps arguing with me and if he doesnt like what I say he doesnt have to respond to me. I'm not saying you cant respond to me.. I dont own this forum.. lol. Sorry for the misunderstanding.


@Goran: Bad Goran :P


@MADVD: You said Angry People, im not angry im a bit disappointed at the length and the "one way" system I like to call it, there wasnt any real exploring as like before, but im sure it will be taken into account hopefully in the next one of the series.

I miss the whole "Oh wonder where that goes" and "Hey a hole to jump through whats through here" feel, to me it was you climb up here to get to here and get to there and next room, that to me is no exploration but getting from A to B.

Also it was, if you dont mind me saying so, a bit big headed of you to say that someone doesnt have to respond to you, it is a forum after all and public at that so expect to be criticised or replied to, its how a forum works :)

Snap125
10th Apr 2006, 16:17
I for my part just LOVE TRL! Got it on the day of release and still haven't finished it due to my life beside sitting in front of the Computer! ;)

Crystal Dynamics and TRL just Rock. Finally Lara is as athletic as she was always meant to be.

I can't believe that people want back TR 1 where she couldnt even shimmy around corners ... jsut sad!

Straw Dog
10th Apr 2006, 18:14
I for my part just LOVE TRL! Got it on the day of release and still haven't finished it due to my life beside sitting in front of the Computer! ;)

Crystal Dynamics and TRL just Rock. Finally Lara is as athletic as she was always meant to be.

I can't believe that people want back TR 1 where she couldnt even shimmy around corners ... jsut sad!

Lol, sometimes a straight to the point comment like that can say more than any five week flame war could ever achieve. Brilliantly put mate, if hilarious in its simple honesty, I heartily agree, and thankfully by the looks of this forum now, so do most people.

dhama
10th Apr 2006, 19:39
Yes, PoP was better than TRL ;)


Matter of opinion.... my football team is better than your football team.. :p

Psychopompador
10th Apr 2006, 19:47
Matter of opinion.... my football team is better than your football team.. :p

whos your football team?