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bo_emperor
2nd Apr 2006, 07:20
I have a question about so called "Next generation content" and the shader Model 2.0 support in the game. I happen to have a video card, which supports Shader Model 2.0, but not Shader Model 3.0. Does this mean that the game won't take advantage of the capabilities of my video card? Because that's what I saw from the demo, which doesn't have "Next Gen" in it. The Demo uses a few shaders here and there, but that's not the full potential of my video card for sure. I've played games like Half-Life 2 and F.E.A.R., which show how much can be done with only Shader Model 2.0. It would be a shame if the game only has to modes - one low-end(Sahder Model 1.4) and one high-end(Shader Model 3.0) and no mid-end mode. So is this going to be changed in the full version or we the people who have Shader Model 2.0 cards will be neglected?

20193
2nd Apr 2006, 07:57
I have Shader 2.0 aswell. If I can't enable next gen content ill be upset:mad:

hotrippr
2nd Apr 2006, 08:08
usually most demos have this option greyed out(trl does), meaning it is only available in retail version. It should be there in retail version.

bo_emperor
2nd Apr 2006, 08:39
Let's hope so. If it isn't it would be very very upsetting.

Verios
2nd Apr 2006, 08:47
Pretty sure that Next-Gen effects will require Pixel Shaders 3.0 if they want to be on-par with the Xbox 360 which I'm assuming it is.

dhama
2nd Apr 2006, 08:47
I have Shader 2.0 as well. If I can't enable next gen content ill be upset:mad:

If Next Gen means it utilizes Shader 3, then it kinda looks self explanatory I'm afraid, but I think it looks amazing with Shader 2.

unreality
2nd Apr 2006, 10:03
No worries, PS 2.0 does the same things as 3.0 but 3.0 shader is more advanced and capable to handle some operations faster.;)


"Next Gen" doesn't mean that 3.0 is required.:D

Verios
2nd Apr 2006, 10:14
Check this out if you're curious:

http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NjA5

http://www.elitebastards.com/page.php?pageid=4136&head=1&comments=1

sorcerer
2nd Apr 2006, 10:42
Well... My video card has shader model 3.0

Anyway, I`ve tested the demo and although "next gen mode" isn`t enabled, the demo ROCKS on my PC! I`ve played the demo at maximum settings, widescreen, 1152*864, 100 Hertz monitor and it`s perfect! I`m so happy! It works WONDERFUL! GREAT!

Remeber, I have AMD Athlon Xp 2500+ (~ 1.8 ghz) and 1 GB DDR. My video card is Leadteak A6000 GT THD, as I said before.

I`m sooooooooooooooooo happy!!!!! :cool: :cool: :cool:

:thumbsup:

del_uk
2nd Apr 2006, 11:23
I would have thought the next-gen special effects are associated with pixel shader 3.0. I wouldn't get upset though, cos the game looks awesome without it. I think textures will just appear more "bump-mapped" with shader 3.0.

DimonLV
2nd Apr 2006, 14:26
Here are some differences, with next gen content and without it:
http://ded.zenblue.net/Tomb_Raider_Legend_PC/tomb_legend_standard.jpg
http://ded.zenblue.net/Tomb_Raider_Legend_PC/tomb_legend_nextgen.jpg

And here is some other screens with next gen content enabled:
http://images.people.overclockers.ru/65149.jpg
http://images.people.overclockers.ru/65148.jpg
http://images.people.overclockers.ru/65147.jpg
http://images.people.overclockers.ru/65146.jpg
http://images.people.overclockers.ru/65145.jpg
http://images.people.overclockers.ru/65066.jpg
http://images.people.overclockers.ru/65064.jpg
http://images.people.overclockers.ru/65062.jpg
And next generation content requeres PS3.0 technology... And also, this new features slow down my gf6800 till 10 FPS in complicated places...
Bts I completed >60% of game for 2 days..
PS. Sory for my bad english..

bo_emperor
2nd Apr 2006, 17:05
My idea was that it's kinda silly, if the game won't let you turn on some of the effects that require only shader model 2.0. Every contemporary game has a pixel shader 2.0 mode - take F.E.A.R. for example, which has the most advanced engine nowadays.

HBAndrew
2nd Apr 2006, 17:36
Next gen requires a lot of power to run it, basically if you dont have a 512mb gfx card above a GF6800, it won't be pretty, might get away with 256.

But I hear a lot of people on even GF 7800's are having problems with it.

tombfan19
2nd Apr 2006, 17:44
Now i know it is going to be a hell for my sys, anyway without next gen content its still just awesome.

sorcerer
2nd Apr 2006, 17:45
Ok...

TRBeth
2nd Apr 2006, 18:56
Ok, call me a video card dummy. How exactly to you check to see if your card has these features?

sorcerer
2nd Apr 2006, 19:13
Ok, call me a video card dummy. How exactly to you check to see if your card has these features?


http://www.systemrequirementslab.com/referrer/eidos?registration_option_id=2524

Here you go! Check here the minimum, recommended and optimal system requriments! It will tell you all the info about your video card (shader model, etc)

:cool:

mofei1
2nd Apr 2006, 19:21
hopefully my 2 7800gt's in sli will be able to cope with the next gen stuff. if not i'm gng to be very dissapointed :(

DGaiden
2nd Apr 2006, 19:37
To enable ''Next Gen'' you need SM3.0 and a videocard with 512MB of RAM to have a playable framerate because the setting is quite heavy.

TRBeth
2nd Apr 2006, 19:49
http://www.systemrequirementslab.com/referrer/eidos?registration_option_id=2524

Here you go! Check here the minimum, recommended and optimal system requriments! It will tell you all the info about your video card (shader model, etc)

:cool:

Thanks! I do have 3.0 but, as I already knew, I will need to do a few other upgrades.

Motionfield
2nd Apr 2006, 20:01
Yeah even if it works on cards before 7000 and 1800 series it will have an unplayable framerate so the shaderlevel support doesn't really matter.

R1c4n
2nd Apr 2006, 20:09
I myself have a 7800 GS, with 256 megs of video ram. The game is bad in some areas, but the readme file says that the initial "nextgen" issues are because of the graphics driver, and that they will most likely release a patch for the game to help optimize it further. If I put Nextgen on without any other options like "full screen effects" it runs pretty damn nice, but I don't mind the 10 FPS areas since its so purty ^_^

Zeeblade
2nd Apr 2006, 20:13
I'm sorry but this is no NEXT GEN. At 800 rez to 1600rez it runs the same and I mean the same. LOL just turn it on and then look at the shadows. I cant believe they cut out all the people that cant do shader 3. 2-3 shader is not like night and day lol.. anyway super game tho..

R1c4n
2nd Apr 2006, 20:18
Hopefully with the 1st patch that is released, next gen graphics can be tuned, I can have 130 FPS with regular graphics and get only 30 FPS in the same area with nextgen, I should be able to enable what I want high quality and what I don't, similar to the advanced options in a game like FEAR.

bo_emperor
2nd Apr 2006, 20:22
The only thing I said was, that besides Next Gen, there should be a playable shader model 2.0 mode. Like Oblivion has - it lets you turn on all the features your card supports. Or FEAR, or Half-Life 2. All these games run fine on my pc. So I don't think that such a mode would be unplayable.

The only reason they didn't put such a mode into the game is beacause they made some kind of contract woth nVidia, to make people with a bit older video cards buy a new one.

hotrippr
2nd Apr 2006, 20:39
pixel shader 3 is still pretty new, hopefully some drivers updates will take care of some of the performance issues, if you have ATI check every 30days, Nvidia who knows?
Some of the slowdowns with the lighting effects dont make sense in other games as well, like if you get 10fps then just take a babystep foward fps goes back up to 60, this is why I think it is driver related...hopefully.

R1c4n
2nd Apr 2006, 20:45
From the readme file that was came with TRL, it says this:

Known Issues

Ensure you are running latest drivers from nVidia and ATI.

Crystal Dynamics, Nixxes Software and Eidos Interactive are committed to providing customer support for our games on a continuing basis. In that spirit, there may be a patch for Tomb Raider: Legend forthcoming; visit the Eidos website for more information.

http://www.eidos.com/
http://www.tombraider.com

Stuttering while running High End

When running the next-generation features, a small number of people may experience slight frame rate instability (stuttering) during game play. This is a video card driver problem and you must make sure you have downloaded the latest drivers for your video card. Card manufacturer’s websites where you can obtain these are listed at the end of this ReadMe file.

Graphical issues 1

There are some areas in the game when you may experience some graphical problems (corrupt / missing textures) when running the next-generation features. Again you will need to make sure that you have the latest drivers from your video card manufacturer to help solves these problems

hotrippr
2nd Apr 2006, 23:46
1.3 Next Generation Content

 Important: Ensure you are running latest drivers from NVIDIA and ATI.

For installer size reasons on this demo version, the ‘Next Generation’ graphics option has been de-activated. However please check back after the 7th April 2006 for an update which will unlock all the high-end content and fully optimise the demo to that of the full retail version.

sadaiy
2nd Apr 2006, 23:50
I beleive the ATi x800 series is only shader 2.0, but it is a newer card... The similary priced nvidia 6000 series is shader 3.0... Sucks for my because I have an ati x800...

sadaiy
2nd Apr 2006, 23:51
Does "high end content" allow us to drive the jeep ?

hotrippr
2nd Apr 2006, 23:54
that would be cool.

X1900XTX:D

Verios
3rd Apr 2006, 00:41
that would be cool.

X1900XTX:D

Roughly the same card as you (X1900XT over clocked to XTX heh..a whole 25 mhz and saved $100 lol) Sure hope it runs good on next-gen mode :)

hotrippr
3rd Apr 2006, 00:52
It should do great on next gen, APR7th cant wait!

BTW I flashed it to XTX and ocd to 720/832 and is a sapphire so was even less $$$:D

ViperXtreme
3rd Apr 2006, 00:57
hmm, soft shadows and normal mapped textures are all that i see with the next gen content, hopefully you can disable the shadow smoothing to increase performance, as it does in FEAR, and Chronicles of Rid****.

FrozenFire
3rd Apr 2006, 14:19
One thing I don't get is:

Why can I (with a crappy old GeForce 4 Ti) have bump mapping, pixel shaded water, bloom and other advanced graphic effects in games like Thief - Deadly Shadows, Blood Rayne 2 or Far Cry, but not in Tomb Raider Legend?
Other games let you enable and disable certain features and don't limit them to a special mode of game that seems to be hardly playable on even the best graphic cards.

And it's simply not true that bump mapping and nice looking water require pixel shader 2 or 3. These features could easily be made with pixel shader 1.1

lhaymehr
3rd Apr 2006, 15:35
Eidos and nVidia "worked very closely" to bring you the most satisfying experience, so why should you enjoy the game as you like it if you didn't buy nVidia 7800? Are things more clearer now to you guys and girls?

Thought so :D

Phnxsmv
3rd Apr 2006, 16:02
Does this:
http://users.erols.com/chare/video.htm <- check your graphics card on this list to see what Pixel Shader etc your card supports. Shader 2+ means you can enable the high resolution textures and features.
mean Next-Gen-Content can be enabled with a SM 2.0b graphics card?

jaywalker2309
3rd Apr 2006, 18:08
Does this:
mean Next-Gen-Content can be enabled with a SM 2.0b graphics card?

At the time we supported Shader 2. but for release we wont be able to. Shader 3 is needed now..

bo_emperor
5th Apr 2006, 13:17
And why? I can't see no point in that. Why didn't you include options to enable/disable the separete features and effects, so that everybody can use the full potential of their hardware?

FrozenFire
5th Apr 2006, 13:29
Because few multi-platform titles nowadays are optimised for pc. The broad range of hardware would require a lot of testing and optimisation.

The next-generation mode is a direct port of the Xbox 360 graphics and therefore requires pc hardware to behave like an Xbox 360 to run properly.

If your pc can't handle that, you can play the (still very good looking) regular mode that seems to be better adapted for pc hardware.

It's sad that the game doesn't take advantage of pc hardware, but that's the way things go since most games are primarily made for consoles.

bo_emperor
5th Apr 2006, 14:23
Maybe you are right. But recently we have seen many new games, that offer rich configuration options and get released on multiple platforms like NFS: Most Wanted, not to mention games like Half-Life 2(especially Lost Coast) and F.E.A.R.

FrozenFire
5th Apr 2006, 14:52
Yes, but HL2 and FEAR were first made for PC and then ported to consoles, not the other way round.
And Need for Speed sure was originally made for consoles, but not for the XBox 360.
It makes a difference if you have to port high end console graphics like the XBox 360 next-gen mode in Legend to pcs or NFS XBox graphics that require much less than current pc hardware can do.

Far Cry and Half Life 2 (both originally pc games) actually have all the nice effects that TRLegends next-gen mode offers - only that Legends unoptimised next-gen mode is almost unplayable even on rigs with Pixel Shader 3.0 and 512 MB graphic card monsters whereas Half Life 2 and Far Cry run smooth on my 64 MB GeForce 4 with bump mapping, pixel shaded water, volumetric lighting and all the other nice stuff!!

You wouldn't believe how much good optimisation can do that faster hardware can't...
But face the fact, the few pc customers simply aren't worth spending ages on optimisation.

Verios
5th Apr 2006, 15:49
One thing I don't get is:

Why can I (with a crappy old GeForce 4 Ti) have bump mapping, pixel shaded water, bloom and other advanced graphic effects in games like Thief - Deadly Shadows, Blood Rayne 2 or Far Cry, but not in Tomb Raider Legend?
Other games let you enable and disable certain features and don't limit them to a special mode of game that seems to be hardly playable on even the best graphic cards.

And it's simply not true that bump mapping and nice looking water require pixel shader 2 or 3. These features could easily be made with pixel shader 1.1

I mean this is the least offensive way possible but isnt that kind of a no-brainer? heh..

TR:L advanced effects were built around Pixel Shader 3.0 (Which I believe Xbox 360 effects are built upon...so that would be another explanation) hence why pixel shader 1.1 wont do it. Could it do a similar effects? most likely...would they be as nice? no...(what would be the point of 3.0 then? heh)

LuxAngel
5th Apr 2006, 16:05
http://www.systemrequirementslab.com/referrer/eidos?registration_option_id=2524

Here you go! Check here the minimum, recommended and optimal system requriments! It will tell you all the info about your video card (shader model, etc)

:cool:
Thanks a lot for that! This was very helpful! :D

tha_mattster
5th Apr 2006, 17:02
I hope the next instalment of the series will be a 2d platformer on consoles but normal 3d on PC. :p

Did the developers, or whoever is in charge, get a little extra cash for making the game extra special on Xbox 360?

Its quite annoying really. I have 1gig ram and X800 graphics card, which lets me play new games like FEAR and Half life 2 on high settings so im sure it would be possible to have some of the 'next-gen' content running on my PC. my poor PC has been shot in the foot. :mad:

At least it looks nice without next gen but thats not the point.

Jurjen
5th Apr 2006, 17:46
At least it looks nice without next gen but thats not the point.


Not the point? At the end of the day, isn't that all that matters?

bo_emperor
5th Apr 2006, 19:28
Well, if something is not optimised enough and is partially unplayable even on high-end hardware, why release it on the market in this form?