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Riovanes
21st Mar 2006, 18:52
We should not publically criticize (personally or generally) because of this as it comes across as highly elitist and discriminatory (and a higher power knows, no one here desires to tread down that path again - which may in fact, be before your time).


Me, elitist and discriminatory?

Come now, Umah, surely you know me better than that.

Or maybe that's the problem... :p

Umah Bloodomen
22nd Mar 2006, 04:51
Me, elitist and discriminatory?

Come now, Umah, surely you know me better than that.

No comment. :p ;) :)


Or maybe that's the problem... :p

Jabbing at me on the boards again, eh? Surely you haven't lost the chutzpah to deal with me directly? :p ;)

Welcome back, Rio. :)

Riovanes
22nd Mar 2006, 05:09
Jabbing at me on the boards again, eh? Surely you haven't lost the chutzpah to deal with me directly? :p ;)

Welcome back, Rio. :)

Self-efficacy is truly dead - the "or maybe that's the problem," bit was meant as, "Or maybe it's because you know me so well that you can refer to me as arrogant, elitist, discriminatory, etc..."

Must I hold your hand through everything, dear? ;)

Umah Bloodomen
22nd Mar 2006, 05:22
Must I hold your hand through everything, dear? ;)

Only if you insist. ;) :D

Riovanes
22nd Mar 2006, 12:37
Only if you insist. ;) :D

Flirt. :p

Umah Bloodomen
22nd Mar 2006, 16:58
Flirt. :p

Yes, but I'm good at it. :D

Riovanes
22nd Mar 2006, 21:27
Yes, but I'm good at it. :D

Among other things. :p

C'mon, you know you missed me.

blincoln
22nd Mar 2006, 22:38
*cough* *cough* (http://www.expedia.com/daily/hotels/default.asp?rfrr=-383)

Riovanes
22nd Mar 2006, 23:19
*cough* *cough* (http://www.expedia.com/daily/hotels/default.asp?rfrr=-383)

I kinda wondered if you were still around.

Now if only we could find willow.

Umah Bloodomen
23rd Mar 2006, 15:06
Among other things. :p

ROTFLMAO! :D ;)


C'mon, you know you missed me.

With every BANSWORD so far, Dear. ;)


*cough* *cough* (http://www.expedia.com/daily/hotels/default.asp?rfrr=-383)

The Alexis looks pretty classy. ;) :p


Now if only we could find willow.

That's an individual who has not made an appearance 'round these parts in quite some time.

Riovanes
23rd Mar 2006, 15:20
*puts on coke-bottle glasses*

I forgot to mention that I have shoes of +5 to dodge Bansword attacks.

That, and honestly, you know if I was gone for good, you'd be sad. Mostly because you'd only have easy targets left. :p

Umah Bloodomen
23rd Mar 2006, 15:37
*puts on coke-bottle glasses*

I forgot to mention that I have shoes of +5 to dodge Bansword attacks.

I'm going to have to see if I can obtain a weapon enhancement (perhaps something in the +5 range). :D


That, and honestly, you know if I was gone for good, you'd be sad. Mostly because you'd only have easy targets left. :p

Mostly? What's the "least" aspect of it, then? :p

We're scaring people. So far Blinc's the only one who'll play with us. :( :p

Riovanes
23rd Mar 2006, 16:15
I'm going to have to see if I can obtain a weapon enhancement (perhaps something in the +5 range). :D



Mostly? What's the "least" aspect of it, then? :p

We're scaring people. So far Blinc's the only one who'll play with us. :( :p

I'd say it's their loss, then, wouldn't you? I mean, really - people act as if we're living legends or something. At least you have a banhammer to fall back on - all I've got is a bunch of angst and a towering sense of arrogance. ;)

As for the "least" aspect - I think you enjoy the challenge of trying to figure out how you could ban me, even if you never act on it - mostly because I'm good at skating on thin ice. :p

blincoln
23rd Mar 2006, 17:14
*COUGH* (http://www.vetitice.demon.co.uk/photos/baby/week19/Barf%20Bag%20(2003-06-19)%201.jpg)

Man, maybe I should stop by the pharmacy today.

Riovanes
23rd Mar 2006, 17:23
*COUGH* (http://www.vetitice.demon.co.uk/photos/baby/week19/Barf%20Bag%20(2003-06-19)%201.jpg)

Man, maybe I should stop by the pharmacy today.

Awww - blinc got his hair cut! :D

wishmaster
23rd Mar 2006, 17:28
:D With that nasty cough you'd be better of at the liqour store,
dropshot really eases the throat.

TheWatcher
23rd Mar 2006, 21:53
I mean, really - people act as if we're living legends or something. At least you have a banhammer to fall back on - all I've got is a bunch of angst and a towering sense of arrogance. ;)
As far as I'm concerned, anyone who has this kind of repoire with the mighty Umah and lives to tell about it is a living legend. That and the both of you were here way before I was. :rolleyes:

Umah Bloodomen
23rd Mar 2006, 22:28
*COUGH* (http://www.vetitice.demon.co.uk/photos/baby/week19/Barf%20Bag%20(2003-06-19)%201.jpg)

Man, maybe I should stop by the pharmacy today.

That won't be necessary; Rio can't get knocked up the first time. LOLOLOLOL!


Awww - blinc got his hair cut! :D

And he gained a little weight. I miss the goth look already. :( :D


:D With that nasty cough you'd be better of at the liqour store,
dropshot really eases the throat.

Says our resident expert. :D


As far as I'm concerned, anyone who has this kind of repoire with the mighty Umah and lives to tell about it is a living legend. That and the both of you were here way before I was. :rolleyes:

Hey! Don't feed his ego. Who's side are you on anyway? LOL! :D

I'm dying...LOLOLOLOLOL! **wipes tears from eyes**

Jeffers
24th Mar 2006, 12:28
We're scaring people. So far Blinc's the only one who'll play with us. :( :p

Wouldn't want to intrude on such an..... erm...... private affair. :p

Jeffers

Riovanes
24th Mar 2006, 14:11
That won't be necessary; Rio can't get knocked up the first time. LOLOLOLOL!

Hey now - I know going a few rounds with the Rio can be a mind-blowing experience, but surely your mind isn't so far gone as to believe THAT load of silliness.

Don Juan I may not be, but I no longer have to be friendly with pies to know what there is to know on that particular subject, thank you. :p




And he gained a little weight. I miss the goth look already. :( :D

There are two things that contribute most to the loss of the "I'm malnourished and hate the world because my stomach is full of nothing but overpriced coffee and solid angst" look.

The first is beer - high in quality, numerous in quantity.

The second is being a baby.

Stupid babies...


Hey! Don't feed his ego. Who's side are you on anyway? LOL! :D

That's funny, I had to ask your mom the same question last night!

OH!

Giggidy giggidy!!!

...

Alright, I apologize for that one - it's been too long since I've been able to bust out a lame "your mom" joke.


I'm dying...LOLOLOLOLOL! **wipes tears from eyes**

Come now, Umah - I'm back! There's no need for tears! ;)

Anoobish
24th Mar 2006, 15:52
... I mean seriously, this is kinda gross :p

Riovanes
24th Mar 2006, 16:32
... I mean seriously, this is kinda gross :p

I assure you it has very little to do with "warm fuzzies."

Umah and I are what some might call "friendly rivals." We enjoy sniping at each other and poking fun, mostly because I think we both know the other person doesn't mean what they say or do to be hurtful. There was a time when we were out for each other's blood, to be sure - but those days are far behind me - and I assume Umah has long since dropped that silliness too.

Chalk it up to being a couple of college kids with a severe case of egotism on both sides. We're older, wiser - and if anything, probably a little friendlier, too.

Besides - she knows I'm going to win this one - she's only delaying the inevitable. :p

WraithStar
24th Mar 2006, 16:44
Wouldn't want to intrude on such an..... erm...... private affair. :p

Jeffers

Ditto:p I wanted to say that before but I just couldn't come up with the correct words...

Anoobish
24th Mar 2006, 17:02
Besides - she knows I'm going to win this one - she's only delaying the inevitable. :p... I'm laughing kinda hard, right now :D


Ditto:p I wanted to say that before but I just couldn't come up with the correct words...So true :D

Umah Bloodomen
24th Mar 2006, 18:14
Umah and I are what some might call "friendly rivals." We enjoy sniping at each other and poking fun, mostly because I think we both know the other person doesn't mean what they say or do to be hurtful. There was a time when we were out for each other's blood, to be sure - but those days are far behind me - and I assume Umah has long since dropped that silliness too.

The silliness is indeed, dead and buried, I assure you.

We usually go back and forth like this every couple of months or so. I've found that it not only provides for great forum comedy, but also allows us (and whomever isn't scared to involve themselves) a chance to exercise their playful insults and comebacks.


Chalk it up to being a couple of college kids with a severe case of egotism on both sides. We're older, wiser - and if anything, probably a little friendlier, too.

See everyone, he's just upset that a woman has an ego that puts his own to shame. :D


Besides - she knows I'm going to win this one - she's only delaying the inevitable. :p

LOL! What he can't tell you, ATM, is that thin ice he was skating on a few posts up has thawed. See, I figured out how to ban him simply by entering his name in my magic ban-box-o-death. This is the part where I tell him to "lick my boot" and he is more than welcome to admit that I am the victor this time around.

He'll be able to post again in a couple of hours. I couldn't resist taking him down a notch. :D

In the words of Leonardo Leonardo (of the Clerks animated series): "Well Played Clerks".

ROTFLMAO! :D

dumah's wraith
24th Mar 2006, 19:50
rotflmao?

Riovanes
24th Mar 2006, 21:35
LOL! What he can't tell you, ATM, is that thin ice he was skating on a few posts up has thawed. See, I figured out how to ban him simply by entering his name in my magic ban-box-o-death. This is the part where I tell him to "lick my boot" and he is more than welcome to admit that I am the victor this time around.

He'll be able to post again in a couple of hours. I couldn't resist taking him down a notch. :D

In the words of Leonardo Leonardo (of the Clerks animated series): "Well Played Clerks".

ROTFLMAO! :D

And if I had a sniper rifle, I might be able to counteract the sharpshooter on the hill.

You would attack an unarmed man in a banhammer duel? Dishonorable! Shameful!

Ever... so... Umah. ;)

I'll give you the nod for superior firepower - but lick your boot?

Never!

Viva la revolucion!

Anoobish
24th Mar 2006, 22:02
rotflmao?
Rolling on the floor, lauging my... anus... off.


We usually go back and forth like this every couple of months or so. I've found that it not only provides for great forum comedy, but also allows us (and whomever isn't scared to involve themselves) a chance to exercise their playful insults and comebacks.
You do understand, Umah, that to actually "exercise playful insults", we'd have to engange in this stuff, ourselves... Which I find pretty hard... Which is a pity, because sarcasm, and irony are the two best forms of humour, there is :p

DarkWraith
24th Mar 2006, 22:42
Well it is wonderful to see that somethings, like this place, never change.

DW
:)

Umah Bloodomen
25th Mar 2006, 06:19
And if I had a sniper rifle, I might be able to counteract the sharpshooter on the hill.

You would attack an unarmed man in a banhammer duel? Dishonorable! Shameful!

Ever... so... Umah. ;)

I'll give you the nod for superior firepower - but lick your boot?

Never!

Viva la revolucion!

Muhahahahahah! I will admit, banning you this time was a shocking abuse of my authority and it rocked! :D

About the boot issue: C'mon you know you want to. ;)


You do understand, Umah, that to actually "exercise playful insults", we'd have to engange in this stuff, ourselves... Which I find pretty hard... Which is a pity, because sarcasm, and irony are the two best forms of humour, there is :p

You're an individual after my own heart. (Forgive my ignorance as to your gender). **buys Anoobish a pint of ale**


Well it is wonderful to see that somethings, like this place, never change.

DW
:)


Long time, no post, stranger. Welcome back! :)

Anoobish
25th Mar 2006, 08:00
You're an individual after my own heart. (Forgive my ignorance as to your gender). **buys Anoobish a pint of ale**
Yes, well... I think it's safe to say, I'm a guy ;)

Riovanes
25th Mar 2006, 14:49
Muhahahahahah! I will admit, banning you this time was a shocking abuse of my authority and it rocked! :D

I always knew you were into that weird stuff. :p



About the boot issue: C'mon you know you want to. ;)


Your boots may be pretty, but after you've just punted my nether regions over and over, do you really think I want to lick them? Seriously, I know where they've been! :D

Umah Bloodomen
26th Mar 2006, 03:01
Your boots may be pretty, but after you've just punted my nether regions over and over, do you really think I want to lick them? Seriously, I know where they've been! :D

I'll take your word for it. The least you can do is clean them then. LOL! :D

Jeffers
26th Mar 2006, 14:56
:eek:

My poor innocent eye's and ears after reading the rest of this thread. :p

Jeffers

Anoobish
27th Mar 2006, 04:45
Aye... I feel like I just lost my virginity...

Riovanes
27th Mar 2006, 14:14
Aye... I feel like I just lost my virginity...

As long as you don't wake up, roll over, and say, "Did I just...," then you're doing okay.

Anoobish
27th Mar 2006, 14:16
Actually... I think I did just that, last weekend... Saturday, in fact...

Riovanes
27th Mar 2006, 15:36
Actually... I think I did just that, last weekend... Saturday, in fact...

Beer-goggles are not an excuse for that kind of behavior, young man.

This is why it's good to be engaged.

I know what I'm in for. ;)

Anoobish
27th Mar 2006, 15:52
Wow... Beer-goggles...

Nah, I'm just kidding. 16 (still a virgin, though... not that that's any of your business), occasional drink, when I'm with the friends who DO drink... And that's... pretty much it :D

Hope I didn't scare you, with the ( ) part...

Riovanes
27th Mar 2006, 16:13
Wow... Beer-goggles...

Nah, I'm just kidding. 16 (still a virgin, though... not that that's any of your business), occasional drink, when I'm with the friends who DO drink... And that's... pretty much it :D

Hope I didn't scare you, with the ( ) part...

I think we might be straying into territory better left undisturbed by members of a forum owned and operated by a publicly traded corporation. Innuendo and insinuation are one thing - bald statement entirely another.

So, moving on...

I like ducks.

Their quacks do not echo.

Anyone know why?

Jeffers
27th Mar 2006, 16:33
Because a ducks quack does echo, it not echoing is a misqouted myth. :p

And starting with I like ducks had me really worried there Rio. :p

Jeffers

Anoobish
27th Mar 2006, 17:40
What do you mean, they don't echo? We have duck's, nearby. Some small rock hills too... They echo... Trust me. Cost me lot's of sleepless night's... And the law says, we can't just shoot them...

WraithStar
27th Mar 2006, 17:57
And the law says, we can't just shoot them...

Too bad;)

Anoobish
27th Mar 2006, 18:33
Yeah... The thing is; they keep me up at night... And since I constantly hear them... the ducks... I get hungry... Every damn time!

Vampmaster
27th Mar 2006, 22:41
You still wake up sometimes, don't you?
Wake up in the dark, with the ducks quacking?
Do you think, if Raziel lived, you wouldn't wake up in the dark, ever again, to the quacking of the ducks? Do you...?

WraithStar
27th Mar 2006, 23:32
You still wake up sometimes, don't you?
Wake up in the dark, with the ducks quacking?
Do you think, if Raziel lived, you wouldn't wake up in the dark, ever again, to the quacking of the lambs? Do you...?

"quacking of the lambs" is priceless:D I can see Hannibal saying that to mess with someone, too.

Vampmaster
28th Mar 2006, 01:06
Yikes, I forgot to edit the second part. :o LOL :D (Fixed it, now)

Anoobish
28th Mar 2006, 13:23
... You people, just totally lost me...

Siela
28th Mar 2006, 13:52
I like ducks.

Ditto.
But be sure to put some potatoes and red cabbage beside my duck.:D

Btw, this whole duck and quacking thing reminded me of Metal Gear Solid 3, when Snake is asking Para-Medic about her reputation as a doctor and it turns out that her nickname was "Quack" because she likes talking and never shuts her mouth.

Anoobish
28th Mar 2006, 14:06
HAHAH! Yeah... Man, those conversations with Para-Medic, are just hilarious... Heehee... Especially with the "Luminous Russula"! :D

Riovanes
28th Mar 2006, 15:52
Btw, this whole duck and quacking thing reminded me of Metal Gear Solid 3, when Snake is asking Para-Medic about her reputation as a doctor and it turns out that her nickname was "Quack" because she likes talking and never shuts her mouth.

I enjoyed MGS 3 as well - but that's mostly because I grew up playing the first Metal Gear games on the NES, and always wondered how things looked from the perspective of Big Boss.

Now that I know, tracking down old Foxhound members for severe beatings in the earlier games isn't quite so black and white.

Call it sympathy for the devil.

The community should be made aware, however, that MGS 3 - Subsistence is only worth picking up if you don't already own the original cut of MGS 3. "Tactical Espionage Action," does NOT translate well to, "Total Deathmatch Action."

WraithStar
28th Mar 2006, 16:29
Yikes, I forgot to edit the second part. :o LOL :D (Fixed it, now)

Too bad. I liked it better when I thought it was intentional;)


... You people, just totally lost me...
Vampmaster took a quote from The Silence of the Lambs and replaced "lamb" with "duck" :)

Anoobish
28th Mar 2006, 17:20
Vampmaster took a quote from The Silence of the Lambs and replaced "lamb" with "duck" :)
Hmm... Really? I know it's a classic, but I've only seen it once...


Call it sympathy for the devil.I wonder where anyone came up with that... His fall from grace was caused by greed, and pride... Both of which are one of the Seven Deadly Sins... :confused:

Edit:

Hey, wait a minute... Isn't it a Rolling Stones song!? :D

Riovanes
28th Mar 2006, 19:14
I wonder where anyone came up with that... His fall from grace was caused by greed, and pride... Both of which are one of the Seven Deadly Sins... :confused:



Read Milton's Paradise Lost, and you should have a better understanding of where the term comes from.

Explaining my take on the idea of "sympathy for the devil," would get us into a religious debate that has absolutely no place here. Let's just leave it at that you should read John Milton. ;)

Anoobish
29th Mar 2006, 04:41
You know... This is creepy... Lately I've developed a HUGE interest in demons, the Four Horsemen and whatnot. In fact; as soon as I posted that, I went to Wikipedia, to look up some stuff on the guy (Lucifer a.k.a Satan etc). Well... That book comes up everywhere :D Wonder where I could find a copy...

Riovanes
29th Mar 2006, 12:54
You know... This is creepy... Lately I've developed a HUGE interest in demons, the Four Horsemen and whatnot. In fact; as soon as I posted that, I went to Wikipedia, to look up some stuff on the guy (Lucifer a.k.a Satan etc). Well... That book comes up everywhere :D Wonder where I could find a copy...

This is the part where I sound like one of those "The More You Know" commercials...

Unless you live in a blatantly Puritanic area, Paradise Lost should be available at your local library. John Milton is considered one of the most important writers in the history of English literature, so his work should be easily accessible.

If you want a copy to own - check out your local college bookstore, in the used section. Milton's works, especially PL, are required reading for most low and mid-level Brit. Lit. courses (I'm working on a Masters in English right now myself - I get to teach Milton next semester) for undergraduates. If you don't live near a college/university, then your standard options of barnesandnoble.com and amazon.com apply.

A word of warning - Paradise Lost is largely a work of verse - so if you're not a huge fan of poetry, it may be a bit of a grind. I'm not, but I still enjoyed it - so it's really all down to the reader. The bottom line is that it's a fine piece of work, and I really do think everyone should read it. It will not offend those with strong religious convictions - and for those of us without, it's even less off-putting.

Anoobish
29th Mar 2006, 18:49
This is the part where I sound like one of those "The More You Know" commercials...Uh, sorry? :p


Unless you live in a blatantly Puritanic area, Paradise Lost should be available at your local library. John Milton is considered one of the most important writers in the history of English literature, so his work should be easily accessible.Well... Finland, ain't exactly "blatantly Puritanic area"... But I suppose, I have to take a look, in the library, since I'm really gettin' into this stuff :D


A word of warning - Paradise Lost is largely a work of verse - so if you're not a huge fan of poetry, it may be a bit of a grind. I'm not, but I still enjoyed it - so it's really all down to the reader. The bottom line is that it's a fine piece of work, and I really do think everyone should read it. It will not offend those with strong religious convictions - and for those of us without, it's even less off-putting.Normally; I hate poetry. But that's just in the "art thou" Shakespeare stuff. It's different, when someone tries to MAKE you feel sympathy for the devil :p

But what section do you think it's in?... English literature? Might be there, but I don't really think so...

Riovanes
29th Mar 2006, 18:56
John Milton was a British author - so I'd look in British/English literature, especially if they have a "classical" English/British section.

Riovanes
29th Mar 2006, 18:59
Before I forget, I'm reading a book now called, "A Frozen Hell." It's about the war fought between Finland and Russia in 1939-40. Very interesting read - I wonder if you've heard of it?

I know that from a military perspective, Finland "lost" that war, but considering what he had to work with, Carl Gustav Mannerheim did a heck of a job holding the Red Army off for as long as he did - and the Finns themselves fought with a viciousness and tenacity I certainly wouldn't have wanted to be messing with.

Random question - are you from anywhere near Lake Ladoga? There was a big section of the Mannerheim line that went down there, and I'm wondering if any of it's left, as I'm planning a visit.

Anoobish
30th Mar 2006, 12:54
No, sorry. Don't live anywhere NEAR the thing...

But guess what?

Mannerheim was made president after the war. Well okay, not really. He was Marshal at the time of the war, but afterwards he did have the same political power as the president (which is almost none, since we're a democracy), in addition to commanding our armies.

Riovanes
30th Mar 2006, 14:12
That's funny, considering Mannerheim was basically stripped of power for telling the Finnish government before the war that appeasement would've been the best route to dealing with Stalin's Russia. They reinstated him pretty quickly when the Red Army started coming over the border, didn't they? ;)

Do you have any idea what happened to Ohquist? I know he was working under Mannerheim, but they butted heads over a number of things - most notably Mannerheim's insistence on keeping forward positions that didn't have enough field gun cover to deal with advancing Soviet tanks. I'm up to the defense of the Mannerheim Line in my book at this point, but I'm wondering if Ohquist was able to stay in power after the war ended.

My kudos to your countrymen. My minor was in WWII history, European theatre, and I kinda' got obsessed with the doings of the USSR after doing a research paper on the defense of Stalingrad. I recognize full well that the Reds did a lot of truly horrible things - but then, so has every government in history, and you have to respect a sense of nationalism powerful enough to send unarmed men charging against MG-42 nests (it wasn't ALL the Komissars, after all). However, knowing what I know about Stalin's Russia, I have to say the resistance Finland offered when they were attacked is absolutely admirable. The statistics say you guys were outnumbered by something like 42 to 1, and there was a battle near Lake Ladoga in which the Finns successfully beat back six or seven Russian charges with only 1,500 men and nine field guns - to something like 118 field guns, 95 tanks, and roughly 15,000 soldiers on that part of the battlefield alone. Your ancestors were incredible warriors - and they have earned my respect.

If you're interested, I'd jump at the chance to start a dialogue with someone in-country, as I'm sure you have access to historical documents and local legends that I can't easily get my hands on. The only thing I would warn you of is that I tend to be an impartial researcher - I want to see the mistakes and goof-ups just as much as the victories and brilliant plans.

Anoobish
30th Mar 2006, 14:38
Well, uh... Thanks for the kudos, and all... Wow, I'm blushing here :o

Anyways, I'm sure I can find something nice, at the library, to read :)

Edit:

Sorry, no. I don't know about Ohquist...

Anoobish
30th Mar 2006, 18:50
Don't suppose you have any other questions, so I can look them all up, at the same time? :D

Riovanes
30th Mar 2006, 19:47
Don't suppose you have any other questions, so I can look them all up, at the same time? :D

Oh sure...

For starters, why in the name of Bob didn't Finland think to arm themselves with more anti-tank rifles and fewer Maxim guns? I realize the Maxims were used to great effect in dealing with the "human wave" tactics the Soviets employed during the war, but they were useless against armor.

According to my text, roughly 80-90% of Finland's coast/field batteries dated form WW I or even earlier. What was the reasoning behind not updating their artillery sooner? Surely it couldn't have been budget constraints.

Although the Molotov Cocktail originated with French Revolutionaries (under a different name), it was christened as the Molotov by the Finnish armed forces. It is my understanding that "Molotov" is a Russian word - am I incorrect, or were the Finns just being flippant toward Ivan?

It is unclear at this point in my text (I may well find out later) whether or not Karl Gustavus Mannerheim was allied with Adolf Hitler or not. I know they met - and that Hitler actually bowed to Mannerheim in deference to his sheer force of personality - but I'm not to a point in the reading where I'd know whether or not Finland became part of the Axis or maintained full independence.

The first Russo-Finnish war that I'm dealing with was the Winter war of 1939-40. The author mentions something about a "Continuation War," in which the Finnish nautical forces gave Stalin a bit of a spanking. What was the "Continuation War," and why was it fought? Apparently it occured during 1941-onward through the end of WWII - would this be a function of Finland joining the Axis, or was it simple retribution?

Bear in mind I will not judge Finland for having joined/not joined the Axis. I realize that political expediency and survival often make strange bedfellows. I'm just looking for the ground-level reality here.

Oh, just two more things. The book I'm reading keeps referring to Mannerheim as "The Baron." What was he a Baron of, and how intact was Finland's feudal system at that time?

Finally, apparently a large number of Finnish officers were originally trained by the Soviets (prior to the war between the Reds and the Whites in Finland - or the Finnish civil war). Would you be able to shed any light on how Finns feel about this - and why they would've gone for Soviet training in the first place?

Many thanks in advance for your efforts, Anoobish. I'm no longer involved with a history program - I'm actually finishing a terminal degree in English literature and writing at the moment - but this is really out of personal interest.

Binky24
31st Mar 2006, 14:15
Although the Molotov Cocktail originated with French Revolutionaries (under a different name), it was christened as the Molotov by the Finnish armed forces. It is my understanding that "Molotov" is a Russian word - am I incorrect, or were the Finns just being flippant toward Ivan?

Riovanes, sorry for cutting in, but the Molotov cocktail was christened after Vyacheslav Molotov, may he and Ribbentrop (insert a heavily ritualised curse here - I'm Polish, hence the sentiment). Wikipedia has a nice story about how it got its name - if you're inclined to believe it (both Wiki and the story :)).

Riovanes
31st Mar 2006, 16:11
Riovanes, sorry for cutting in, but the Molotov cocktail was christened after Vyacheslav Molotov, may he and Ribbentrop (insert a heavily ritualised curse here - I'm Polish, hence the sentiment). Wikipedia has a nice story about how it got its name - if you're inclined to believe it (both Wiki and the story :)).

Ah, excellent - thank you.

Anoobish
31st Mar 2006, 16:48
Yeah. You just lessened my load, a lot :D

Binky24
31st Mar 2006, 17:49
Oh, no problem. I find Wiki to be a reasonably good source - as long as one remembers that it's Wiki and thus should be regarded... with suspicion. (Hmm, this makes me think... what would I get if I searched it for the LoK info?)

Anoobish
1st Apr 2006, 12:55
Well... Didn't find it in the library... But a certain someone on the web gave me a nice, little link :D

http://www.dartmouth.edu/~milton/reading_room/pl/intro/index.shtml

Anoobish
2nd May 2006, 16:40
Oh sure...

1) For starters, why in the name of Bob didn't Finland think to arm themselves with more anti-tank rifles and fewer Maxim guns? I realize the Maxims were used to great effect in dealing with the "human wave" tactics the Soviets employed during the war, but they were useless against armor.

2) According to my text, roughly 80-90% of Finland's coast/field batteries dated form WW I or even earlier. What was the reasoning behind not updating their artillery sooner? Surely it couldn't have been budget constraints.

3) Although the Molotov Cocktail originated with French Revolutionaries (under a different name), it was christened as the Molotov by the Finnish armed forces. It is my understanding that "Molotov" is a Russian word - am I incorrect, or were the Finns just being flippant toward Ivan?

4) It is unclear at this point in my text (I may well find out later) whether or not Karl Gustavus Mannerheim was allied with Adolf Hitler or not. I know they met - and that Hitler actually bowed to Mannerheim in deference to his sheer force of personality - but I'm not to a point in the reading where I'd know whether or not Finland became part of the Axis or maintained full independence.

5) The first Russo-Finnish war that I'm dealing with was the Winter war of 1939-40. The author mentions something about a "Continuation War," in which the Finnish nautical forces gave Stalin a bit of a spanking. What was the "Continuation War," and why was it fought? Apparently it occured during 1941-onward through the end of WWII - would this be a function of Finland joining the Axis, or was it simple retribution?

6) Bear in mind I will not judge Finland for having joined/not joined the Axis. I realize that political expediency and survival often make strange bedfellows. I'm just looking for the ground-level reality here.

7) Oh, just two more things. The book I'm reading keeps referring to Mannerheim as "The Baron." What was he a Baron of, and how intact was Finland's feudal system at that time?

8) Finally, apparently a large number of Finnish officers were originally trained by the Soviets (prior to the war between the Reds and the Whites in Finland - or the Finnish civil war). Would you be able to shed any light on how Finns feel about this - and why they would've gone for Soviet training in the first place?

Many thanks in advance for your efforts, Anoobish. I'm no longer involved with a history program - I'm actually finishing a terminal degree in English literature and writing at the moment - but this is really out of personal interest.Bear in mind: everything I'm about to write, is during the Continuation War. Also: I'm not sure, of any of this. I just hope I remember right.

1) To be honest; I have no idea. My guess is budget and the fact that Russia had an overwhelming advantage, concerning numbers. Might have something to do with the civil war, some 20 years earlier, and the fact Russia harassed us quite a bit, during WW I, hence less resources.

2) You're right on this one. During the Winter War, Finland's armory was less then admirable. However, they "updated" their equipment, after this, and were a bit more prepared, for the Continuation War. Here's a short list, of equipment and manpower:

16 divisions.
Infantry numbered around 475,000 men.
1100 fieldguns.
235 airplanes.

And here, we have a direct quote, from the web:

"Konepistooleja oli saatu lisää, samoin panssarintorjunta-aseistusta ja uusia raskaita kranaatinheittimiä. Myös ilmatorjuntaa oli parannettu. Sotasaalispanssarivaunuja oli kunnostettu omaan käyttöön."

Which I would roughly translate into:

"More machineguns had been obtained, as well as anti-armor weapons and new heavy grenade-launchers. Anti-air had also been improved. "War-prize" tanks had been converted for own use."

(Sorry. not that good at translations, but I think you get the point.)

3) -

4) Finland did not join the Axis forces. We merely formed a... pact, in lack of a better word. A coalition, if you will. A temporary alliance.

5) Well, Russia has always had a thing for Finland, I suppose. We've been a part of Russia before, so I suppose they wouldn't mind, getting us back.

6) Well, that's nice :D But still, see 4.

7) I have no idea, really. Maybe he was a baron. Don't know of what, though.

8) I don't really think they feel that much about it. Sure, some were trained by them, and later even had to kill them. But still; unless you suddenly notice you just killed an old friend of yours, I don't really think they care. Call me a poor people-knower, but that's how I think.

Remember, there's a lot in here, I'm not sure of, so don't consider this a fact-book.

Anoobish
21st May 2006, 14:20
/Bump, just in case Rio ever wants to see this :P

Anoobish
14th Jun 2006, 19:25
Last bump, and now I'm going to forget all about this, until i see it at the top of the screen :P

/bump