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goblin981
3rd Jan 2006, 01:02
I think I found it. A way for Kain to fulfill his destiny as Scion of Balance and as Balance Guardian. My first thought was to kill Nupraptor or Ariel as a kid so as to avoid the coruption of the circle, but that lead to the leads to the paradox of Kain not being able to go back to make that chance, as does everything else he can do at this point.

BUT:

Suppose it was this kind of paradox that would save Nosgoth. Suppose Kain went back to the time of the Vampire/Hylden War, before the Pillers were constucted. And Kain was to rise as the Vampire Champion armed with the Soul Reaver he now possesses. To fight the Hylden Champion armed with the flaming sword (whatever that sword is) Just like in the Prophecies. In battle Kain would lose the Reaver (on purpose) and the Hylden champion would sieze it and strike Kain down.
With Raziel's soul both inside the blade and inside Kain both trying to feed on each other, this would cause a paradox. But at this point it would be fatal, what other outcome is there? It would be the Soul Reaver - Raziel - that would be erased.
History would be rewritten like this. The war still takes place, the Hylden win as the Vampires had no champion, but the Pillars are erected and they are banished. The (Blood) Reaver is still forged, and guarded by Janos. Sarafan Raziel finds a new way to Janos (through the reshuffling) and still takes his heart and sword. Janos stays dead. Raziel and the others eventually die of something, doesn't matter what as they will never be reborn. The Reaver makes it's way to Avernus to be picked up by young Kain along with the Wraith Armor. Because there's no Soul Reaver no paradoxes are possible so Moebius doesn't trick him into killing William. So there's no vampire purge. When Kain gets to the end of his journey he's not the last vampire so he is free to make the sacrifice, so he does, and new guardians are born.

The Nemesis is still a threat and until the guardians are turned to vampires the circle is still influencable by the Hylden, but the Pillars are pure, the binding is secure, things are realitively good.


What does you think? Is that the way out this dilema or what?

soothsayer
3rd Jan 2006, 02:02
No
Versions of the reaver cannot destroy each other.
The reaver would simply shatter on Kain, without changing history, and it would be destined to be wield by william, so it would eventually be fixed.

Also, Raziel is the hero with the flaming sword, in addition to being the vampire hero. Kain is scion of balance, though though roles of all three are sorta shifty.

Also, Kain's "coin edge" refers allowing his survival in addition to restoring balance to Nosgoth's future. This is in addition to restoring the Vampires to guardianship roles, and killing EG. Though all these plans may change.

goblin981
3rd Jan 2006, 03:13
I'll need to think about it. If the blade did shatter though. What would happen to Raziel's soul?
I'm not sure now.

soothsayer
3rd Jan 2006, 03:17
Raziel's soul would loosely cling to the blade until another incarnation repaired the blade, as it is already destined to be wield whole by WtJ.

goblin981
3rd Jan 2006, 05:15
but a paradox can alter destiny. in my theory william would still hold the reaver just not the soul reaver.

soothsayer
3rd Jan 2006, 05:34
Still wouldn't work.

When Kain stuck Raziel with the reaver in SR, the paradox shattered the blade, because Raziel cannot consume himself.
However this paradox did not change history, as fate pushed this outcome.
Had the Reaver consumed it's younger self a fatal paradox would occur, which has unknown consequences.
Though complete erasure of reality is a fair guess.

In the unlikely occurrence of the reaver striking Kain in his current state, there is no chance that the reaver would consume his soul, as the reaver just goes with the flow of the timestream.

card
3rd Jan 2006, 10:17
Well, for starters, the wraith blade dispersed through Kain, it didn't go into him (as in he's not a vessel of it). It completed him, like a piece of a jigsaw puzzle. Why would there be a paradox?

The Blood Reaver was forged before the war, so Kain being there with the Soul Reaver would give the vampires two identical blades (but one with Raziel inside).

Without the Reaver shattering, history wouldn't rewrite itself. And something comes to mind about here, something Kain and Raziel say in SR2, about the expulsion of the irritant, if history can't accomodate itself.

I don't think rewriting everything (and thus deleting all games' storylines) is what we're looking for here. I mean that'd be easy, huh? Kain just going back in time and causing a simple paradox to save everything... It'd be such a great disappointment.

soothsayer
3rd Jan 2006, 21:26
8. How can the wraith blade be sucked into the blood Reaver with Raziel's soul, wouldn't that mean that there
are two souls in there?

The purified wraith blade that Raziel possesses is not drained into the Soul Reaver along with Raziel. In order for Kain to become purified by the wraith blade that contains the purity, the wraith blade must be dispersed or released from its imprisonment into Kain. Thus in that one single moment Raziel is simultaneously trapping himself within the Reaver but as well finally freeing himself from thousands of years of torment.

The purified reaver was broken down (dispersed) then released into Kain.
The blade contained the soul fragments kain used to create Raziel and his brothers, then Raziel absorbed those fragments when he killed his brothers, so the Reaver was like half of Kain's soul, so it's like he got his soul back.

The reaver was made after the war, since it was forged by Vorador, who was cursed, and the curse wasn't cast until the war was over.

And it's not the meeting of the two swords that matters, it's the meeting of two versions of Raziel, That's why distortions didn't occur when Raziel touched the empty blood reaver.

card
4th Jan 2006, 07:57
But wasn't it present in murals depicting the war? I'm not really sure about it, though. Maybe it was made by Vorador while he was still human.

Anyway, it doesn't really matter. In my previous post (and in the theory presented above), I'm talking about the Reaver not shattering in contact with Kain. Worst case scenario is he gets kicked out of history, best case is he dies.

soothsayer
4th Jan 2006, 18:56
The murals represent Raziel or Kain during the coarse of the actual games, being prophecy, and not yet history.

And if Vorador was human when the reaver was forged, which I find unlikely since I doubt Janos would give the job of constructing the weapon of his messiah to any human he just met, than it could of been forged at most a few years from the end of a thousand year hylden war, since it would have taken an older more experienced smith to craft the reaver, and Vorador stopped aging in his mid thirties.

Kain is merged with the purified reaver, and it would make no sense if the reaver devoured his soul, since that would cause a sort of fractal russian doll paradox, with the reaver containing infinite reaver. By when it's purified it'll be absorbed by Kain, then it hypothetically absorbs his soul, than the blade when purified will be absorbed into Kain, then it hypothetically absorbs his soul...

causing an amplifying loop like this could not happen in consistent history, so the reaver wouldn't be able to absorb Kain, unless the "worst case scenario" occurred.

incidentally, the reaver was supposedly the only thing that could kill Kain, and did so in previous timelines, but in Kain's current state, I'm not sure what can kill him?

dumah's wraith
4th Jan 2006, 21:17
by the way, if kain had no time streaming device because he caused a paradox, wouldn't he have been killed at that battle in bo1

card
4th Jan 2006, 22:33
I was pretty sure there were the Hylden wars murals in a forge someplace in SR2. I remember Raziel mentioning the Reaver being depicted like a holy icon.

Well, it all doesn't really matter, Kain can't cause any kind of history changing paradox like that. I'm sure his edge of the coin is a much cooler, very unexpected thing.

FearGhoul
5th Jan 2006, 05:26
I think that Vorador was an extremely gifted blacksmith, and was very interested in becoming a Vampire, so Janos convinced the others to have Vorador create the Reaver, with the reward of Vampirism being passed to him.
I used to think that the Reaver might have been used a little during the war, but now I think that it might have been made after. The murals made me think it was used a bit during the end of the war originally.

goblin981
5th Jan 2006, 11:15
It must have been used during the war because the Hylden make the Nexus Stone to counter it.

soothsayer
5th Jan 2006, 20:06
The Nexus is of unknown origin.
And it wasn't simply designed to counter the reaver.
It can "bend time and space to create doorways to any location within Nosgoth".
And it apparently served some purpose in the industrial quarter.
In addition to those things it negates energy draining effects.

If the reaver was made before the hylden war ended, which I highly doubt, than the nexus stone would have offered no protection from the reaver, as it became an energy draining weapon when the war was long over.

Binky24
6th Jan 2006, 09:14
But the Reaver was also designed to draw Raziel-as-Hylden-Champion into itself, thus priming it to receive the elemental imbuements. So the Nexus Stone could have been created to prevent that effect. :D

With clairvoyants on both sides, it must have been an interesting war. :rolleyes:

goblin981
6th Jan 2006, 12:02
good points.


I've thought about it and my original theory doesnt really work.
I have no idea what Kain can do now.

Smoke_Z
6th Jan 2006, 17:33
I think the edge of the coin is simply that Kain can restore the world and live to see it.

Maybe that means restoring the pillars, maybe it's rendering them unneccesary. Maybe Kain has some wonderous idea that none of us has presented yet.

soothsayer
6th Jan 2006, 20:55
But the Reaver was also designed to draw Raziel-as-Hylden-Champion into itself, thus priming it to receive the elemental imbuements.

The blood reaver wasn't designed to draw raziel into it.
It was the wraith blade that did that.
The blood reaver even restores energy to Raziel.
In the sarafan memorium, when Moe's staff moved far enough away, the wraith blade took the empty reaver and tried to draw raziel into it, to continue the self-creating cycle.
And in the citadel, it drew the reaver drew Raziel in only after Kain merged with the wraith blade, who was wielding the reaver at the time.


With clairvoyants on both sides, it must have been an interesting war.

Ancient Mind Guardian
In winning all, we lost all... In winning what we thought mattered, we lost what truly mattered... But for you, there is a chance.


I think the edge of the coin is simply that Kain can restore the world and live to see it.Well put.

FearGhoul
7th Jan 2006, 01:35
The blood reaver wasn't designed to draw raziel into it.
It was the wraith blade that did that.
The blood reaver even restores energy to Raziel.
In the sarafan memorium, when Moe's staff moved far enough away, the wraith blade took the empty reaver and tried to draw raziel into it, to continue the self-creating cycle.
And in the citadel, it drew the reaver drew Raziel in only after Kain merged with the wraith blade, who was wielding the reaver at the time.




Well put.

But it also almost got him at Avernus, and the Reaver wasn't stabbed into him. I got a little confused at that point.

soothsayer
7th Jan 2006, 03:02
Kain grabbed Kain's wraith blade hand, and held the blood reaver in the other. Then the wraith blade arced though Kain into the reaver. The twined blade would have imprisoned Raziel, had he not tore out Kain's heart.

Binky24
7th Jan 2006, 08:45
I also agree with Smoke. The coin fell at the end of Defiance - on its edge, no less. To paraphrase Terry Pratchett, in some cases (like, let's say, in a video game) the chance of one of a million is equal to certainty. :D

Perhaps being "pure" means that if Kain went to a time where there is no "impure" version of him, the Pillar of Balance would be automatically healed? Or that he could stop being the Balance Guardian without dying? (that's the version I'm using in my fanfic :)) Who knows... One thing I'm sure of is that if, perish the thought, there's no next game, I'd love to see at least the story writers' notes.

----------------------
But, soothsayer - on the Reaver - yes, it was the wraith blade that drew Raziel into the Blood Reaver, but how did Raziel find himself in it in the first place - and I don't mean, he came from the previous cycle, but in the first, first, first place? Before the first cycle?

soothsayer
7th Jan 2006, 23:51
The coin's edge Kain was talking about at the pillars hasn't landed yet, as the pillars in the future are still corrupt.

But there seems to be a second coin, that refers to the bout between the prophesied champions.
Kain was the only one left standing, so it looks like that coin didn't land on it's edge, since Kain couldn't find a solution they could both live with.

And Raziel always goes into the reaver.
If he didn't go into the reaver, than he wouldn't of been drawn in by himself.
It's one of those "What came first? The chicken, or the egg?" sort of things.

Of coarse, in the chicken question, the answer is egg.
Because the first chicken came out of the egg of a chicken like dinosaur.
But of coarse, with a temporal loop, your not going to have any evolution or deviation from the cycle.

Greek Bard
8th Jan 2006, 22:31
The sides of the koin are:
a)Kain sacrifice himself and save Nosgoth
b)Kain live and Nosgoth stays corrupt
the edge of coin is Kain stays alive and saves Nosgoth, not the past nosgoth but the future nosgoth. The pillars of the future nosfoth are corrupt because Kain is corrupt and can only be healed only when Kain heal himself from corruption, thats happening in the end of defiance when the wraith blade heals Kain

soothsayer
9th Jan 2006, 00:21
The pillars of the future nosfoth are corrupt because Kain is corrupt and can only be healed only when Kain heal himself from corruption, thats happening in the end of defiance when the wraith blade heals Kain

That's not official yet, but still possible.
Kain is purified, by he may still have to do something to purify his pillar, and then rebuild the all the pillars.

And the coin I was talking about in my previous thread was about the coin Kain mentioned in Avernus in Defiance.

Smoke_Z
9th Jan 2006, 02:30
I don't think the original Koin was about Kain, he was simply the focus of it. Either the vampires become extinct or the pillars continue doing whatever it is they're doing to destroy the world.

And with the introduction of the whole "Time is a loop" thing, Kain's choice was really choiceless.

goblin981
9th Jan 2006, 04:02
The sides of the koin are:
a)Kain sacrifice himself and save Nosgoth
b)Kain live and Nosgoth stays corrupt
the edge of coin is Kain stays alive and saves Nosgoth, not the past nosgoth but the future nosgoth. The pillars of the future nosfoth are corrupt because Kain is corrupt and can only be healed only when Kain heal himself from corruption, thats happening in the end of defiance when the wraith blade heals Kain


So what your saying is that if Kain went to a post sr1 era the pillars would be healed? Popular theory but I buy the other half of it that says that once the pillars shattered they are beyond redemption. Simply purifying Kain wouldn't rebuild the pillars, it would uncorrupt them, but it wouldn't rebuild them.

If however Kain could rebuild them after Sr1 that would rebanish the Hylden and revive Nosgoth. From there Kain could rebuild his empire and rule a non-wasteland Nosgoth. That would be a happy ending with no paradoxes. That's my new belief. (for this week anyway :D )

Only problem is how would Kain know how to build them. Maybe a rescued Janos would have some answers, but I doubt all of them.

and I think your right, the coin landed at the end of defiance.

soothsayer
9th Jan 2006, 04:59
I find the idea of Kain's mere appearance in the future to cause the balance pillar to uncorrupt problematic.
Kain is currently in an era where there is a corrupted balance pillar, but his presence clearly didn't make a difference.
And I don't see how Kain's purification will heal the balance pillar at a moment as arbitrary as just after the end of SR.
Kain was connected to it at birth, but due to his time streaming, it may be centuries out of sync, if it can even connect across time.


If however Kain could rebuild them after Sr1 that would rebanish the Hylden and revive Nosgoth. From there Kain could rebuild his empire and rule a non-wasteland Nosgoth.

I see no exceptional need to rebanish the hylden.
With HL gone (unless he really isn't) the hylden's powers are limited to influencing weak minded mortals.
The deranged grand kid's of Kain are a more serious infestation, and would strip the land of it's life the moment the pillars restore it.

And I doubt Kain has any plans to rebuild an empire.
He became an apathetic ruler while Raziel was still a vampire.

goblin981
9th Jan 2006, 05:40
I would assume Kain would kill his offspring and start again. To rule the new florishing world, instead of one that was dying the moment the said he wanted it.

Quote "Given the choice, whether to rule a currupt and failing empire, or to challenge the fates, for a new throw, a better throw against one's destiny. What was a king to do?"

This to me says that Kain wants to save Nosgoth so he can rule it. And do a better job this time.

Where Kain is now there a 2 Kains one currupt one pure. so the pillars aren't saved. but in the SR1 era there would only be the pure Kain. Theorically that would purify the balance pillar and therefore the others. The question is, would it be too late? I'm not sure about that. But even if they are purified they would still need to be rebuilt.

As for the hylden. They don't appear to be much of a threat, but you never know. Kain would want to protect his empire by keeping them out, just in case.

The DarkOne
9th Jan 2006, 08:49
but the pillars aren't needed now after BO2's events, cuz kain banished the hylden forever by closing their gate so the pillars aren't needed anymore

Binky24
9th Jan 2006, 09:27
Gomen, but the Hylden were kept out of the SR1 Nosgoth only by Kain's presence there - remember what he told the HL: "And on that fateful day, I will be waiting". Once he's gone from the SR1 Nosgoth, the world is open for the Hylden to return.

As for rebuilding the Pillars - eventually, it was the tainted Kain's decision that shattered them. Perhaps all the "rebuilding" needs is the pure one's decision to Raise them. :rolleyes: The Pillars don't really look like they were "built" in the first place.


And I doubt Kain has any plans to rebuild an empire.
He became an apathetic ruler while Raziel was still a vampire.
Well - here he was, the happy ruler of an Empire - and suddenly discovered the truth... Sure that'd make him apathetic, if all he could really do was wait for Raziel to evolve! But now he's more-or-less free (though if he now has free will or not is, of course, debatable).

goblin981
9th Jan 2006, 10:29
but the pillars aren't needed now after BO2's events, cuz kain banished the hylden forever by closing their gate so the pillars aren't needed anymore

I don't think that's accurate.
If it was the acients would have destroyed the gate in the first place and the pillars would never have been needed. The Hylden will get through again it will just take time. Until the pillars are restored.

goblin981
9th Jan 2006, 10:42
Gomen, but the Hylden were kept out of the SR1 Nosgoth only by Kain's presence there - remember what he told the HL: "And on that fateful day, I will be waiting". Once he's gone from the SR1 Nosgoth, the world is open for the Hylden to return. I think your taking what he said a little to literally.


As for rebuilding the Pillars - eventually, it was the tainted Kain's decision that shattered them. Perhaps all the "rebuilding" needs is the pure one's decision to Raise them. :rolleyes: The Pillars don't really look like they were "built" in the first place. possibly but I like don't the idea of them magically coming together again. But maybe.



Well - here he was, the happy ruler of an Empire - and suddenly discovered the truth... Sure that'd make him apathetic, if all he could really do was wait for Raziel to evolve! But now he's more-or-less free (though if he now has free will or not is, of course, debatable).

true.

Greek Bard
9th Jan 2006, 11:27
but the pillars aren't needed now after BO2's events, cuz kain banished the hylden forever by closing their gate so the pillars aren't needed anymore

Expect to keep the Hylden out of Nosgoth, the pillars are also needed for the land to be in condition but this doesn't make any sence because before the pillars are built how the land of nosgoth was in good condition? :confused:

goblin981
9th Jan 2006, 13:06
that's pretty simple.
the land was good until the war happened. to banish their ememies AND bring the land to it's former (pre-war) glory they built the pillars. 2 birds with one stone.

soothsayer
9th Jan 2006, 23:32
Well - here he was, the happy ruler of an Empire - and suddenly discovered the truth... Sure that'd make him apathetic, if all he could really do was wait for Raziel to evolve!

From the SR instrutions, Kain's apathetic rulership was more to with his ascension to godhood, making the work of an emperor sinking beneath him.


We allowed the remains of the legions, the lesser vampires, to have their intrigues. They provided amusement and spice to an increasingly uninspired court. As faction fell against faction we bet upon the outcome. We helped and foiled plots at our whim. We were the Council and lord Kain, out only master.

As we matured, our earthly bodies evolved into a higher form. We assumed the powers and nobility of the Dark Gods. With each change, the trivial affairs of vampire and man held less interest.

Smoke_Z
10th Jan 2006, 01:00
I kinda think that the pillars needed Kain to kill himself at that moment to be restored. They did shatter spectacularly, and there is no reason for Kain to hang around after he's assured the future of the vampire race unless it truly was too late.

Maybe instead of restoring the pillars, Kain needs to completely banish them. Then he needs an environmental action plan, but I kinda think the blackened sky was making things worse than they needed to be.

FearGhoul
10th Jan 2006, 19:00
I assumed that the Ancient Vampires had the land's health tied to the Pillars as spite, to poison the well if they lost. But restoring it to pre-war makes sense too.

Binky24
10th Jan 2006, 20:26
Well, I assumed that they were constructed as symbionts of the land.

[Obi-Wan] Nosgoth and the Pillars form a symbiont circle. What affects one of them, affects the other. You must understand this! [/Obi-Wan] :p

In other words - the land was fine before their construction AND there was no malice in their construction, just straight "take energy from the land to close the portal". Only that when Nupraptor went mad, something went wrong also in their "programming", and they started to drain too much energy, becoming parasites. (Remember, the Pillars and the Guardians do share a symbiotic connection.) That'd explain why rebooting the Pillar by killing the Guardian works - the original symbiotic, not parasitic, connection is restored.
And by SR1 there's just next to none of the energy.
Lol - and now enter into a drained world a pure source of energy, which coincidentally is also symbiotically bound to the Pillars. How would it affect Kain's health, I wonder? :D

Smoke_Z
11th Jan 2006, 01:50
symbiotic connection.) That'd explain why rebooting the Pillar by killing the Guardian works - the original symbiotic, not parasitic, connection is restored.
And by SR1 there's just next to none of the energy.
Lol - and now enter into a drained world a pure source of energy, which coincidentally is also symbiotically bound to the Pillars. How would it affect Kain's health, I wonder? :D

Heh, Reboot! I never thought of it that way.

Actually, when you mentioned Kain's whole health thing, I got a vague image of the head morlock in the modern version of "The Time Machine." It's been too long since I watched it; didn't it show the albino decaying into a sunken skeleton? Or am I thinking of "Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade"?

goblin981
11th Jan 2006, 04:18
I assumed that the Ancient Vampires had the land's health tied to the Pillars as spite, to poison the well if they lost. But restoring it to pre-war makes sense too.

That makes sense too. Either makes sense. Guess it depends on how 'noble' you think the ancients were.

FearGhoul
11th Jan 2006, 04:56
Heh, Reboot! I never thought of it that way.

Actually, when you mentioned Kain's whole health thing, I got a vague image of the head morlock in the modern version of "The Time Machine." It's been too long since I watched it; didn't it show the albino decaying into a sunken skeleton? Or am I thinking of "Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade"?

Yeah, that was a great "adaptation". Right up there with I, Robot...

soothsayer
11th Jan 2006, 06:21
The health of the land of Nosgoth seem tied up in the balance between the demon and the Material realm.
The Hylden were put in there, and the pillars keep the realms apart, only allowing in force of that terrible place to be released as magic.

But I wonder, did the ancients create a link to that place? a wound in reality, to trap the hylden, a la Sahjhan, then suture it up with the pillars.

Or does the link predate the pillars?
A thought that opens up a whole new can of worms.

Is Nosgoth in a perpetual cycle of wasteland and paradise, caused by the continuous opening of closing of the demon realm?

goblin981
12th Jan 2006, 04:17
The health of the land of Nosgoth seem tied up in the balance between the demon and the Material realm.
The Hylden were put in there, and the pillars keep the realms apart, only allowing in force of that terrible place to be released as magic.

But I wonder, did the ancients create a link to that place? a wound in reality, to trap the hylden, a la Sahjhan, then suture it up with the pillars.

Or does the link predate the pillars?
A thought that opens up a whole new can of worms.

Is Nosgoth in a perpetual cycle of wasteland and paradise, caused by the continuous opening of closing of the demon realm?
That's an interesting idea. Perhaps this kind of thing happens over and over.

goblin981
12th Jan 2006, 14:23
I was looking through old posts and thought this interesting.

WraithStar said:

I think that if Kain returns to the SR1 era, the pillars will be as pure as they can get and perhaps new human guardians have been born. Maybe in the next game, Kain will have to find them all and then lead them against the Elder God...that would make for a cool game

This goes with the 'pillars are now restored post sr1 era' theory, which I'm not a fan of. But it is a possibility and a good idea for the next game.

Greek Bard
12th Jan 2006, 14:35
I was looking through old posts and thought this interesting.

WraithStar said:


This goes with the 'pillars are now restored post sr1 era' theory, which I'm not a fan of. But it is a possibility and a good idea for the next game.

I believe that the pillars in the SR1 area have been healed from corruption but they are stll shattered. A good theory is that Kain goes back at the time of war between the Ancients and the Hylden and start searching for the spell that created the pillars so he can rise them again in the SR1 area :cool:

dumah's wraith
13th Jan 2006, 19:27
I thought Kain was pure, and the balance pillar, but now he has to find the new guardians and purify them, one by one. He has to make sure the pillars are still corrupted in sr1, so Raziel is pissed, but purify them afterwards. Ariel didn't care if guardians were born to replace Nupraptor and the rest in bo, anyone notice that? They would still be corrupted through their pillars, so kain has to purify them and timestream to post sr. Once they were pure, i thought they'd heal, so no one would rebuild them

Greek Bard
13th Jan 2006, 20:24
I thought Kain was pure, and the balance pillar, but now he has to find the new guardians and purify them, one by one. He has to make sure the pillars are still corrupted in sr1, so Raziel is pissed, but purify them afterwards. Ariel didn't care if guardians were born to replace Nupraptor and the rest in bo, anyone notice that? They would still be corrupted through their pillars, so kain has to purify them and timestream to post sr. Once they were pure, i thought they'd heal, so no one would rebuild them

The pillars were destroyed at the of BO1 so no new gaurdians have been born since yet. The only way is to rebuilt pillars so Nosgoth returns to his former glory

Arorn
17th Jan 2006, 12:42
you all seem to be concentrating on keeping the hylden away. but now Kain knows it was because of EG that they are sealed, could they not be let back in? it would be cool that if there is another game, a part of it would be to free them AND put the eg in the demon demension

FearGhoul
18th Jan 2006, 01:17
Exactly. I don't see why Kain wouldn't be willing to work with the Hylden maybe if it's possible. Then again, the Hylden are crazy about wiping out all Vampires.

goblin981
18th Jan 2006, 03:30
Interesting ideas. I tend to forget the hylden aren't the villians here, or evil. They're the biggest victims of all this. Letting the back and banishing EG, good call. Anyone read the Earth X saga where they killed Death. That would be a good twist to this story. I'll explain.

The hylden are released and the EG is banish, peace ensures.
After time they realise the EG wasn't lying and actually is needed for death and rebirth. People are dying and trapped in the spectral realm. With people dying and noone being born soon everyone is in the spectral realm, all just lost souls.
The only exception is the vampires who are immortal but soon have noone to feed on. Would they realise their mistake in Banishing the EG and bring him back in time? Before the vampires starve and there's noone left in the material realm?