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fneh
27th Dec 2005, 14:48
OK, I've recently gained interest in LOK again so I'm gonna post my pros and cons of all the games "just because" (I'm bored and wanna avoid work for another 10 mins)

Blood Omen
Pros
- Free Roaming world
- good story (even with all the plot holes)
- progress from a weakling into a dark god
- hidden spells and weapons

Cons
- graphics
- controls
- ..... make it almost unplayable
- EVIL MENUS that forever annoy me. I need an axe to chop a tree down. Menu>>>loading>>>>swap weapon>>>>loading>>>>chop tree down>>menu>>>loading>>>>switch back to sword>>>loading.....


Soul Reaver
Pros
- graphics (still look good IMO)
- story
- free roaming world
- progress with new powers through the game to unlock new areas
- hidden glyphs (altough rather pointless, still fun to have)
- opening FMV is one of those great unforgettable FMVs
- hidden areas
- using environment to kill opponents/bosses instead of brainless button bashing
- lots of puzzles and thinking instead of brainless bashing buttons

cons
- it wasn't FINISHED
- one (or 10) too many block puzzles
- over use of constrict ability from when you get it until the end of game
- it wasn't FINISHED

Soul Reaver 2
Pros
- graphics (rats scurrying about and amazing water effects :thumbsup: )
- new reaver system very well done
- very good puzzles and level design

Cons
- It wasn't even half what we were promised in previews (able to control time machine eh?????) and was (again) incomplete
- I missed killing vamps cleverly (IE spikes, water etc)
- raziel talked too much. Where's your RAGE man???
- it had time travel.....
- no more boss fights :(
- feel conned when you realise it's so short compared to the first SR game AND had a cliffhanger ending despite being so short lived

Blood Omen 2
Pros
- good character designs (mostly... points at Umah's spandex)
- boss fights well done
- dark gifts (I LOVE jump)
- human interaction. conversations etc
- the way dead bodies convulse when you drain their blood (my personal fav thing about this game!)
- the insane gore
- an actual complete game for once (more or less)

cons
- BUGS
- level based instead of free roaming world
- all the sci fi garbage in a previously fantasy game
- graphics weren't very good
- character animation was awful. why did umah's arms NEVER STOP MOVING???
- Umah in general actually. Everything about her was awful.
- no thinking puzzles apart from the bosses. just A to B switches

Defiance
Pros
- BEAUTIFUL graphics
- telekinesis!
- all the reaver updates we'd been promised for 2 previous (incomplete) games
- the game wasn't half complete either for a nice change
- insane combat system (even tho the old one was fine, this one was better)
- TUREL!

cons
- the CAMERA!
- the BUGS
- it didn't have an ending AGAIN
- it was level based (even tho you can kinda go back. the levels didn't link together and there was no point going back at all)
- brainless design. just smash the hell outa it and you'll be reet. a platformer turned DMC clone.......
- the story felt rushed and lost its composure after being dragged out so many incomplete games
- it didn't actually have an ending despite being the final LOK game we'll ever see
- the "bonus areas" were infact found by going to the corner you couldn't see in because the camera sucked.
- switching charcters was annoying. I'd've prefered like res evil and a kain game and a raziel game (mode KAIN and mode RAZIEL). I would've preferred complete it as raz (seeing as it was his game to start) then unlock the kain game for the complete story.

The_Hylden
27th Dec 2005, 23:03
BLO1 (still the best in the series)
Pros:
1. Great story
2. Longest of any, by far
3. Completely open ended
4. Gameplay
5. Stand alone story
6. Abilities
7. Gory beautiful death:p
8. Great music

Cons:
1. Load times for pause menu/any menu
2. Waiting forever for the full moons to get secrets

SR1
Pros:
1. Great new story arc
2. Fantastic cut-scene opener -- one that can't really be outdone still
3. open ended play
4. blending of the old locals like Nupraptor's retreat
5. Glyphs and puzzles
6. Great music

Cons:
1. Length if one takes it linearly without stopping
2. combat lags at times (button to action ratio)
3. too many block puzzles

SR2
Pros:
1. Incredible upgrade in graphics
2. Fantastic focus on story
3. Another great cut-scene opener
4. Cliff-hanger that really was awesome, imo:p
5. Combat improved -- love dodge (almost circling your opponent before they even attack)
6. Great music! (notice a pattern? lol)

Cons:
1. Length, I suppose

Defiance
Pros:
1. Story (I loved it)
2. Graphics
3. Combat and action
4. Music
5. Finally some peace for the tortured blue guy;)
6. Playing as elder Kain

Cons:
1. Loved the ending, but hope that there will be a continuance to it and that's not how it's going to be left...
2. Forges get a bit tedious
3. Statues get a bit tedious
4. Combat's great, but the same room almost fighting the same group of Hylden and such, needed to be varied or given more purpose for...
5. Though the character models were rendered much better overall, body-wise, especially Raziel (ribs finally, correct spine, and his claws aren't blue!), Raziel's face looked more cartoon-like than before and Kain's skin-tone and face weren't as good as the emulation in SR2 of the FMV version of him.

BO2
Pros:
1. Gameplay
2. Length
3. World was pretty vast
4. Kain is his supreme arrogant self, making for some insanely memorable lines
5. Abilities
6. Boss battles, though some were a little hokey:p
7. Stand alone title that is a great game, in and of itself
8. Music, mostly
9. Kain’s feeding has to be appreciated, even if it is a tad much:p The man just keeps eating and eating, lol

Cons:
1. Character animation was horrid (hands and mouth movements totally unnecessary)
2. Only the GC and PC versions are without those horrid glitches you always hear about...
3. While we know this is an alternate timeline and things have changed because we are hard-core fans, the average player gets confused when they play this title, for good reason.
4. No explanation in game or now for the few major anomalies (plot quirks, like Vorador) in the game
5. Annoying combat music that's not as good as the rest of the music at all.

I think that's about it:p

Omega
27th Dec 2005, 23:43
SR2 wasn't long!

It used the aged old technique of repeating the same landscape as we see in many "old skool" games!

Not that I'm complaining mind, SR2 was a bloody great game!

The_Hylden
28th Dec 2005, 01:17
I assume that's in response to me?? Length was a con as in it WAS short:p But, I didn't find it to be too bad, which is why I said "I suppose."

Also, no need to shout:p

Omega
28th Dec 2005, 18:28
Ahh, my bad - misread you're post!

fneh
28th Dec 2005, 18:48
you can dodge just the same in SR1 y'knoW?

the only problem in SR1 with didging was the DC version. It you shuffled forwards you ALWAYS attack. On other versions you culd dodge exactly the same.

SR2 added a (fairly useless) block button if I recall?

I considered the length of SR1 to be quite good really. but just imagine if it was released complete...... it would've been huge

The_Hylden
28th Dec 2005, 23:42
you can dodge just the same in SR1 y'knoW?

I know that, yes. It was sort of the same, but done much better in SR2. I think a lot of it had to do with the speed and response.

fneh
28th Dec 2005, 23:47
lol, I thought it was exactly the same.....

one thing tho: the combat camera that's on the debug menu makes combat AMAZINGLY easy. you can obliterate even the final bosses with that camera one and just keep walking around them (hit till fall over>>walk around them in autoface>>>the get up>>>>>HIT HIT HIT!>>>>> repeat. They can't TOUCH you)

Smoke_Z
29th Dec 2005, 01:51
Con with Blood Omen 2... Kain feels clumsy and heavy / they used an engine from a racing game. (I realise that Kain has always had incredibly dense muscles, but it's most noticeable there.)

Umah Bloodomen
30th Dec 2005, 03:40
Let's make sure this doesn't become another LOKD Camera-bashing thread. Much obliged. ;)

fneh
30th Dec 2005, 11:14
Let's make sure this doesn't become another LOKD Camera-bashing thread. Much obliged. ;)


I was talking about the SR2 combat camera. And I was actually pointing out it was a good thing (even tho it's obvious the bigger monsters are the reason it wasn't used in the full game)
There's only been one reference to the LOKD camera in my original post in the entire thread hasn't there? (well besides this one)

Umah Bloodomen
30th Dec 2005, 17:36
I was talking about the SR2 combat camera. And I was actually pointing out it was a good thing (even tho it's obvious the bigger monsters are the reason it wasn't used in the full game)
There's only been one reference to the LOKD camera in my original post in the entire thread hasn't there? (well besides this one)

Mentioning the camera in any game is fine, focusing solely on the camera (as the other thread(s) did) is going to cause more headaches (as witnessed in the past). As the title of my last post stated, it was an obligatory PSA (directed more towards those who simply can't let the camera issue go and may use this opportunity to vent on and on and on and on).

fneh
30th Dec 2005, 21:29
Well I mainly wanted to point out the good things about the LOK games more than their faults to see which ones followed through throughout the series.

One thing that made BO1 and SR1 so great was that when you started you felt so small, in a huge world. You see areas that you know you COULD get to, but know you're not strong enough yet (be it a heavier rock in BO1 barring your path, or the drowned abby of SR1 you have to tip toe around to stay out of the water). Yet by the end of the game you know the world inside out and are powerful enough to go where you please and do what you want (even if that's just to swim in that first pool of water you threw a vamp in, to discover there's a pie piece in there)

This is something that's usually lost on sequels. Raziel started SR2 so powerful. And he was fighting inferior foes. How can you make the game a challenge now? And how to make BO2?? kain HAS the soul reaver! he's a dark god!!! We'll HAVE to kill him and make him be born again or the game just won't be playable!


One thing I WILL say about the LOKD camera is that is DOES look good to watch (IF the person knows where they're going of course) compared to the other games. the LOKD camera is also superior to the DMC cameras where you have to fight off screen opponents.

weaponx
1st Jan 2006, 15:15
i like LOK becorse:

great storyline
great voice talents
cool quotes
vampires aren't the "bad guys"
some of the puzzles are interesting

stuff i hate about LOK

elder god and moebius
block puzzles
soul reaver didn't have an ending
soul reaver was too short
the sarafan
raziels fate

evil_sharkey
3rd Jan 2006, 02:29
*blows dust off keyboard*
It's been a while since I was last here, and this seems a fine thread to post in, so...

LOK is great because:
voice acting not stinky (a rarity among video games)
characters you can get attached to or truly loathe (Moe)
neat story
some levels/puzzles/environments visually spectacular

LOK's little teeny flaws are:
some puzzles annoyingly difficult
bugs
plot can get confusing
no "fun with killing Moebius" mini game
some puzzles in unlikely places (an offense common in almost any game involving puzzles, switches, and/or traps)

Smoke_Z
4th Jan 2006, 01:20
I've found some good points to Blood Omen 2...

Costume changes, though they're really not that important. (And not even an issue if you're using the cheat.)

Comedic value; like choking someone, dropping them on the ground, and then kicking them in the ribs because they're not dying fast enough. That and the bugs and other things that weren't exactly put there with the intention of laughing at it. (Like the acting of the bosses.)

fneh
4th Jan 2006, 12:34
lol, kain really is brutal in BO2 isn't he?

if picking them up by the throat and stabbing them in their vitals isn't enough, he walks after them crawling away and finishes the job before draining them of all their blood!

And let's not forget when he sneaks up on ppl and sticks his fist through their chest from behind...........

I was playing a week or so ago and I just can't believe how much gore

Omega
4th Jan 2006, 18:46
LoK is great because it's not another game for the masses *cough*EA*cough*.

It's something that is enjoyable, requires thinking about, and is just plain fantastic.

Binky24
4th Jan 2006, 20:37
And it has secret messages. :)
Today, while playing Defiance again, I got to Avernus, and at last saw that Cthulhu one! Missed it all the time before!

There is one thing from BO2 that I have kind remembrances of - jumping on top of enemies. For some reason, made me laugh. :D

fneh
5th Jan 2006, 23:17
And it has secret messages. :)
Today, while playing Defiance again, I got to Avernus, and at last saw that Cthulhu one! Missed it all the time before!



huh???? cthulhu????

Binky24
6th Jan 2006, 07:40
(points to the addendum in her post in the "archeologist" thread)

THE BOOK IS THE KEY TO THE ULTIMATE KNOWLEDGE in the Lovecraft Diary font on the floor of the Avernus cathedral, around the portal and the place where you put the Earth Reaver in. That one? :)

vampire][vorador
8th Jan 2006, 00:18
BO1
- I will not talk about this one, i started playing LOK with SR1. But, as next game is taking so long to be announced, I was able to get the game (it was almost impossible) and I'm playing it now, while I wait for an announcement :D

SR1
Pros:
-It was the first game that was able to make me stick in front of the screen for hours.
-Great Intro
-Great Cutscenes
-Great Music
-Great Story
-Great Puzzles
-Great Bosses (Finding that tricks to kill every Raziel's brother was GREAT)
-Great something i missed :D

Cons:
-After a while, those block puzzles didn't looked great at all
-AI, The enemies were dumb

SR2:
Pros:
-It was the second game that was able to make me stick in front of the screen for hours.
-Great Intro
-Great Cutscenes
-Great Music
-Great Story
-Great Environment
-Great Reaver Forges (FX and puzzles)
-Great Graphics (character design, animation, FX, environment, EVERYTHING related to the graphic part)

Cons:
-I missed a few of that SR1 puzzles :P
-AI, the enemies were dumb
-So short...

BO2:
Pros:
-It was the third game that was able to make me stick in front of the screen for hours.
-Great Intro
-Great Cutscenes
-Great FMV's
-Great Music
-Great dark giftes
-Great Bosses

Cons:
-Not so great story
-Everywhere seemed the same
-AI, the enemies were dumb

Defiance:
Pros:
-It was the fourth game that was able to make me stick in front of the screen for hours.
-Great Intro
-Great Cutscenes
-Great Music
-Great Story
-Great Combat System
-Great Character Shifting (always making us think what would happend next)
-Great Graphics (not so great as SR2 ones)

Cons:
-Dumb Bosses (I miss the tricks from SR1)
-Raziel was gone
-AI, the enemies were dumb
-Something that didn't made me think this was the best game ever (That title is still for SR2)

Enjoy :D

Big Daddy Kain
8th Jan 2006, 00:50
I loved all the games, they're all masterpeices to me.

The_Hylden
8th Jan 2006, 02:08
Preach on, Big Daddy;)

fneh
8th Jan 2006, 15:33
I just picked up defiance again last night for a while so I have to say:

-The combat is pretty fun - Playing Kain is especially good, even if he did hijack raziel's game series cos his own weren't as good :P

- The graphics on everything are just incredible. Have you seen what CD has done for tomb raider too?!??!!? Those guys are amazing.

- the camera makes the game near unplayable.

- The fact that only major character's mouths are animated somewhat annoys me. Why are the vamp hunters and hylden going back to the PSX era of just making their head wobble about???

- using kain's dark gifts is beyond fun (inspire hate anyone???) but I'd rather let the reaver stay charged for Raziel. The air reaver is amazing fully charged.

- Kain is a lot more fun to play. Having the telekinesis for so much longer makes a lot of difference.

- Ariel looks amazing. Seeing her jaw bone moving under her torn flesh is very nicely done.

Siela
18th Jan 2006, 09:08
Soul Reaver 2
No pro/cons yet.
After starting over 4 times, and ALWAYS forgetting to save for various reasons :rolleyes: , I don't have yet the spirit to start again, and listen to the sermons of Moebius or for Kain's.

Blood Omen 2
Almost the same here. :p
I'm stuck where I sould fry a guy. Erm, I can't remember his name.

Defiance
Pros:
- graphics
- telekinesis rulez! Why kill, when you can throw?
- music
- and many more I forgot

Cons
- no end.
- Pillars, pillars, pillars. I'm talking about THE pillars in Vorador's Mansion.
I had to sing to Raziel to fly normally over those, otherwise he always fell from those things.
- Golems. Whoever thought out those, should have his soul removed from the wheel. :mad:

Soul Reaver
It is the last for me, because I finally got it for Christmas. Yay!!!!
A word of advice for the new ones ( if there are any): DO not start this after Defiance if you hadn't played it before.
It was rather strange! I'm not talking about the graphics.

Pros
- Those gate thingies. Although in most cases the answer "The dialed place can not be reached" was, I liked them.
- Weapons
- "Could you please come here to the sun/water/campfire?, If not, I can drag you there." fighting style

Cons:
- It is really impossible to look up? Or I just missed the button for it?
- CAN NOT SWIM! In Defiance I could! How can anyone forget how to swim?
- CAN NOT PHASE! I realized this after I bounced off the gates... for the 4th times

I know that in due time Raz will get there abilities, but after finishing Defiance it was strange why can't I do theese things.

Blood Omen
I really do hope that sometimes, in the near future, I can get it.
So please, dear Elder God, I would give half of my soul for a working PAL version of Blood Omen!!!
Pretty please???

fneh
18th Jan 2006, 11:43
I feel the need to point out that in the SR games raziel has 2 swim animations. If you hold down jump then he swims like the rahabim. I really missed this in defiance. :(

goblin981
18th Jan 2006, 12:11
I have to say I didn't notice the lack of 'rahabim swiming' in defiance, because he's hardly ever in the water to need to swim. I think there's only 2 or 3 small ponds that he can swim in in the whole game. 2 by the pillars that I can think off. So they animation he used was hardly noticable. You must have been paying close attention.

fneh
18th Jan 2006, 14:09
I have to say I didn't notice the lack of 'rahabim swiming' in defiance, because he's hardly ever in the water to need to swim. I think there's only 2 or 3 small ponds that he can swim in in the whole game. 2 by the pillars that I can think off. So they animation he used was hardly noticable. You must have been paying close attention.


there's only one point in the entire game you swim properly I think: when you excape from teh elder god and get the camera madness jumping up to the top in spectral.

There's before the spirit forge too if you'd count that, but it's more of a puddle really.

The game should have had more swimming. Not because I like swimming, but because raziel was essentially just kain with poor TK abilities for the most part. You start to hate raziel every time you're forced into spectral to phase through gates when you know kain can not only do it in material, BUT he can do it about 6-7 times faster too (and that's before the shifting realms animations)

The_Hylden
20th Jan 2006, 14:54
Yeah, there weren't that many places to swim, especially when you think back to SR2. There's a few more in Vorador's mansion -- the submerged part of the catacombs (though you could just go spectral in the first place, I always dive in and then go spectral once I am near the bars -- my point is they didn't make it even necessary to swim there) and the bottom of the well (though you really only wind up swimming back, unless you miss those raised pillars, which I've done many times; then it's a swim, then wade, slowly, lol, back to the ledge...). Swimming wasn't as well done as in SR1 or 2, I thought, and when he surfaces, it's slow as anything to get him to shore. So, he ... swims forward ... then ... swims forward. It's a bit annoying, yeah.

Back to the well, while places like that were cool once you got the Earth Reaver to walk around on the bottom of the water with, that one puzzle to get that dinky TK upgrade where you have to move those broken pillar bases into place is a pain. Talk about taking forever to do something. I know it's because they were showing the water resistance, but... And, lol, not discounting what I just said, for some odd reason I always stop to do that stupid puzzle:p

EarlyMelchiahm
21st Jan 2006, 22:10
Wish I could make this post a bit more worhtwhile, but I got say that fneh is pretty right about everything.

But overall, LOK is a great series. It's popularity might not be as big as Halo's, but it's offered more story, more replayability and more amazement than any other game series.

fneh
22nd Jan 2006, 13:50
Wish I could make this post a bit more worhtwhile, but I got say that fneh is pretty right about everything.

But overall, LOK is a great series. It's popularity might not be as big as Halo's, but it's offered more story, more replayability and more amazement than any other game series.

yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeees! bow to meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!! :D

EarlyMelchiahm
22nd Jan 2006, 17:20
...In first post of this thread, I might add. :)

BigKevSexyMan
4th Feb 2006, 04:27
The pluses for the games are to obvious so I'll just do the cons.

BO1:
The axes
The loading
Answers to puzzles were to obvious.

SR1:
cliffhanger ending angered me at first

SR2:
No bosses. If they added a boss for every forge and had it so you have to think to kill them it could have added an extra 1.5-2 hours to it. Plus without those bosses there was nothing to break up killing the baddies that all acted the same.
It had a free roaming world, but there was no place to extra to explore except where you had to go.
Reaver upgrades had no effect in combat(that I noticed)

BO2:
Blocking get's annoying even if you got it on skilled.
Combat in general.
Answers to puzzles were to obvious.
No free roaming world which diminished the purpose of the dark gifts.

Defiance:
Only three fun bosses(Turel, Janos, and EG)
MINOR camera issues.
No free roaming world, although after seeing that diminish since SR1 it wasn't a big deal.