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soothsayer
27th Dec 2005, 06:43
Seriously, there are so many runes and cryptic images in the games, but I can't make any sense of most of it. So if anyone has a degree in dead languages, or knows anyone who does, please take a look at these games and tell me what it all means!

Gabriel Edson
31st Dec 2005, 01:55
im probably posting well-known information here, but the nosgoth blood script in BO1 is nearly identical to Quenya, J.R.R. Tolkien's elven written language from the hobbit, etc.

as for the rest of the games... <shrugs>

soothsayer
31st Dec 2005, 02:06
blood script is based on futhark runes.

Gabriel Edson
31st Dec 2005, 02:19
futhark? dont think ive ever heard of it (not that i claim to be familiar with ancient languages). maybe Quenya is based on it as well; as i said, Blood Script and Quenya are nearly identical.

card
31st Dec 2005, 12:51
Try this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elder_Futhark) and this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Futhark) for some info on runes. Here's the article on Quenya (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quenya). I'm not a fan of Tolkien, so I don't know that much about it.

Gabriel Edson
31st Dec 2005, 16:54
well, its definitely not Quenya, then. thats what the name of the runes in the maps in "the hobbit" was, according to one of my english teachers. it seems she was wrong, and now i am too. :rolleyes:

so, to set the record straight, nosgoth's blood script is nearly identical to the runic alphabet from j.r.r. tolkien's the hobbit. and both may or may not have been influenced by futhark. whatever that is.

EDIT: k, i went back and checked out the other 2 links card provided, and i agree that blood script and "hobbit" runes are futhark-inspired.

Smoke_Z
1st Jan 2006, 04:58
I've got a a copy of "Buckland's Blue Book" around here somewhere.... It's good for the Futhark, but it also has a couple other alphabets.

Seems to me that I have trouble with the Tolkien runes even though I used to know futhark well enough to actually have written some stories and bad poetry with it.

Hey, maybe that other design I'm interested in is Melachim or Passing the River. There's a triangular symbol I keep seeing, and I somehow associate it with fire, I might've seen it in SR2 fire shrine. (The clearest image is in Vorador's fountain room, but it's also elsewhere.)

card
1st Jan 2006, 11:09
Well, now that we've got the alphabet for the Futhark runes, is anyone be patient enough to try and decipher the texts? :p

Binky24
1st Jan 2006, 17:26
Eh? The Futhark-like runes?
For those in Blood Omen 1, I'd advise visiting Ardeth Silvereni's site. Everything explained there.
For the inscription in SR2, in the Time-Streaming Device, it's nonsensical. There was a suggestion that it was supposed to mean "Wendler's Monument", after some or other artist who worked on that game.
In Defiance, the Blood Script is used in two places in the cemetery. Just after the exit from the Underworld there is something which reads, more or less, "rest in peace" - I couldn't decipher all the letters, though, but it's a reasonable assumption, I guess. :) And in Kain's tomb it's written - again more or less - "here is Kain". Guess that's how Raziel knew where he was. ;)

But that's the Blood Script. The runes of the Ancients would be much more interesting, if they weren't nonsensical. Unless, that is, they wrote "how-to-use" manuals on the walls of the temples, that is...

Edit: Oh, and there is an THE BOOK IS THE KEY TO THE ULTIMATE KNOWLEDGE inscription on the floor in Avernus, in the Lovecraft's Diary font. There was a thread here about it - here (http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=25256) .

Binky24
14th Feb 2006, 17:20
OK - sorry about the double-posting, but I'd like to up this thread so that I'd get an answer -
Does anyone know any site where all the Defiance Lovecraft-Diary font inscriptions are listed/translated? I've tried a search on these forums, and on the Nosgothic Realm forums, and came up with nothing, and not even the Dark Chronicle has anything.

Right now, apart from the above Avernus inscription, I've seen "Stronghold" at the very beginning of the first chapter and "Crime et chatiment" (French for "crime and punishment") above the holding cells. There are a couple of lines in Moebius's chamber under the fortress, a (different, I think) couple of lines on the slab where Raziel starts; also - I think - around the futhark "rest in peace" inscription?

Edit - nope. The thing in Moebius's cave and in the Underworld is everywhere the same. Oddly enough, in French again. (Unless I'm hallucinating seeing writing in a language I don't speak a word of, written in a really weird font. That's also a possibility.) This is what I have by now -
There are 12 lines:
1 LES ENFANTS (children)
2 DE LA TERREUR (of fear)
3 ENFOUIS SOUS (bury - as in 1st/2nd person sing present indicative, or 2nd imperative - under)
4 LES DE*M* (cracked line)
5 DE *UBLIS
6 ATTENDENT TOUS (a bit unclear - "they attend" - perhaps it's "tout", it'd be "they all attend")
7 LE SEIN BIENFAITEUR (the benevolent breast)
8 DU ELDER GOD (of the Elder God)
empty line
9-12 are unclear because I couldn't get a good screenshot:
9 *M*AMERE*
10 * TE *DE CONFO*TER
11 *MO*ILE
12 *SOUS*MOUS* :)

:confused: Help??? Please?

Binky24
4th Mar 2006, 07:48
Update -
I've asked the very nice people at nosgoth-fr.net about the French text, and they solved a lot and helped me solve a lot... Merci beaucoup, Zohar, Gibou, Naomi...!
The Underworld text is divided into two parts. One is relatively clear, it goes:
1 LES ENFANTS
2 DE LA TERREUR
3 ENFOUIS SOUS
4 LES DÉCOMBRE *
5 DE L'OUBLIS *
6 ATTENDENT TOUS
7 LE SEIN BIENFAITEUR **
8 DU ELDER GOD

Notes:
*= actually, according to Naomi from the nosgoth-fr.net boards, the S at the end of line 5 should be written at the end of line 4, otherwise it makes no sense.
**= this is a bit funny; it is written sein bienfaiteur, but this means "breast benefactor", and it can't even mean "benevolent breast", because "bienfaiteur" is a noun. So Naomi from the nosgoth-fr.net boards offered another version: "SAINT BIENFAITEUR" = "divine benefactor". I've seen that it isn't written this way, but perhaps it's another "mistake". :)

OK - all in all, this part means "Children of terror, buried under the ruins of oblivion, they all await the ?divine benefactor?//?breast benefactor? of the Elder God." Cryptic enough, :D.

The second part is worse.
It goes:
9 AM(E) AMERE
10 ENS TE DECONFORTER
11 SOUS MON AILE
12 E NOUS

9: Âme = soul; amère = bitter. So - "bitter soul"?
10: this part is horrible. Zohar offers: "deconforter" is old French, means more or less "discourage": "Ne laisse pas les gens de déconforter" is "don't let people dishearten you"; "ens" doesn't mean anything... and "te" is 2nd singular dative/accusative
11: under my wing
12: E - I have no idea about this; NOUS = us (which is a terrible shift of perspective: "my wing - us")

goblin981
4th Mar 2006, 10:44
Seems to me that I have trouble with the Tolkien runes even though I used to know futhark well enough to actually have written some stories and bad poetry with it.

This is really unrelated (and unhelpful), but I thought I'd mention I used to be able to read and write in Aurebesh (the Star Wars written language) I can't write in it anymore but I can (slowly) read it still. What a nerd right? haha

stanislav
17th Aug 2007, 15:41
Okay, I know this thread is ancient but I'm a recent fan of the LOK games so I wasn't around back when it all started. But anyway, having seen the texts in the underworld myself and played the game, I have my own theory on them.

Firsty, the Breast Benefactor. This sounds ridiculous and sounds like a mistake but there might be something to it. At a young age, children are breast fed right? Its almost an essential part of the childs survival. So if the breast in this text is a metaphorical way of refering to giving life, then the Elder God could easily be associated because the vampires believed that he was their God, and source of life. But theres more to it than that.

If we choose to asociate breasts with feeding babies rather than eye candy, then breasts therefore become asociated with the reproductive system. The vampires, or children of fear, are sterile and cannot reproduce. And this text could possibly be some sort of prayer to the Elder God to remove the curse that the Hylden placed on them. Hence why they refer to the Elder God as the breast benefactor. They could have used other words that are more closly linked to the reproductive system but that probably wouldnt go down well, and "Breast" sounds more poetic, which suits the vampires noble and holy image far better than other words might.

My second point- The "Us" at the end of the little speech looks like a signature. And I can't see the "E" that is supposedly in front of it. So maybe the vampires signed their prayer "Us." Whoever read the prayer (Most likely the Elder God) was meant to know who the writers of the prayer were when they refered to themselves as Us. There was no need for actual names because the Elder God knew them, and suposedly loved them.

Just a thought.

Guardian of Spirit
26th Sep 2010, 10:03
Update -
I've asked the very nice people at nosgoth-fr.net about the French text, and they solved a lot and helped me solve a lot... Merci beaucoup, Zohar, Gibou, Naomi...!
The Underworld text is divided into two parts. One is relatively clear, it goes:
1 LES ENFANTS
2 DE LA TERREUR
3 ENFOUIS SOUS
4 LES DÉCOMBRE *
5 DE L'OUBLIS *
6 ATTENDENT TOUS
7 LE SEIN BIENFAITEUR **
8 DU ELDER GOD

Notes:
*= actually, according to Naomi from the nosgoth-fr.net boards, the S at the end of line 5 should be written at the end of line 4, otherwise it makes no sense.
**= this is a bit funny; it is written sein bienfaiteur, but this means "breast benefactor", and it can't even mean "benevolent breast", because "bienfaiteur" is a noun. So Naomi from the nosgoth-fr.net boards offered another version: "SAINT BIENFAITEUR" = "divine benefactor". I've seen that it isn't written this way, but perhaps it's another "mistake". :)

OK - all in all, this part means "Children of terror, buried under the ruins of oblivion, they all await the ?divine benefactor?//?breast benefactor? of the Elder God." Cryptic enough, :D.

The second part is worse.
It goes:
9 AM(E) AMERE
10 ENS TE DECONFORTER
11 SOUS MON AILE
12 E NOUS

9: Âme = soul; amère = bitter. So - "bitter soul"?
10: this part is horrible. Zohar offers: "deconforter" is old French, means more or less "discourage": "Ne laisse pas les gens de déconforter" is "don't let people dishearten you"; "ens" doesn't mean anything... and "te" is 2nd singular dative/accusative
11: under my wing
12: E - I have no idea about this; NOUS = us (which is a terrible shift of perspective: "my wing - us")

Just a question: from where in the game you have translated that? was it already in french or in Futhark Runes?

Anyway, the more I discover of LoK universe the more I think the creators did more than just make a game, they tried to render it the more real possible! :D
Such accuracy in details, even cryptic messages written in archaic languages scattered everywhere in the game...! well, I'm speechless!:D

Paradoks
27th Sep 2010, 20:12
I think it is from the middle texture (http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/3417/egtextures.png). I don't have the game installed and I just keep the textures directory on my disk, so I can't really tell where it is in the game, but I think it was on the platform where Raziel was having his first conversation with EG. The right texture also contains some text, but the resolution is too small to make anything out of it.

It may be a little off topic, but I was wondering about something - I also included the EG's symbol in that link - has anyone noticed that it looks really similar to what we see in deleted Spirit Forge (http://www.thelostworlds.net/SR2/Deleted_Reaver_Forges.html) entrance from SR2?

Guardian of Spirit
28th Sep 2010, 13:30
But if you confront the symbol underwater and the symbol IN the Spirit Forge in Defiance you can easily see they are different. I believe, as the Vampires were worshipping EG, that the Spirit symbol was distorted by EG to create his own insignia. Usually good symbols are distorted for bad purposes, as the symbol of Christ's cross, for us is a good symbol but for satanists the symbol is inverted to indicate Satan (sorry for the comparison).

Paradoks
28th Sep 2010, 21:31
But if you confront the symbol underwater and the symbol IN the Spirit Forge in Defiance you can easily see they are different. I believe, as the Vampires were worshipping EG, that the Spirit symbol was distorted by EG to create his own insignia.
The Spirit Forge didn't make it into SR2, so the ruins don't have to be a Spirit Forge entrance any more (just like Kain was supposed to be able to shift to spectral at will in SR1, but after changes in the script that ability was removed entirely from the series). That ruins may just be some EG's shrine now.
And I would think that EG's insignia (alongside all the writings in the Underworld) would actually predate the Spirit symbol (which shouldn't have any meaning before rising of the Pillars).
That symbol actually got me thinking about the deleted dialogue from Defiance seen in the outtakes ("I exist in the places you cannot find"). I got the impression that each eye on the symbol may represent one "body" of EG (like the one destroyed by Kain in the citadel).


Usually good symbols are distorted for bad purposes, as the symbol of Christ's cross, for us is a good symbol but for satanists the symbol is inverted to indicate Satan (sorry for the comparison).
Or it can refer to the Cross of St. Peter ;).

Guardian of Spirit
30th Sep 2010, 08:24
That's a good theory, indeed! There's the body of the cemetery, the body under the Pillars, in the secret chamber, the body under the Spirit forge... there could be many and perhaps in a future game, that would be Kain's mission to seek out all the EG bodies and destroy them! About the symbols... I believe the Vampires and their culture existed even before the coming of EG: just one day EG showed up calling himself God and the Vampires, so righteus and noble, as Raziel describes them, where eager to prove their worship and love for God, not knowing the the so-called God was in reality a Demon. So I think EG hid himself behind the Spirit symbol, but in secrecy, with his agents, renegaded that symbol and distorted it for his own purposes. He has always said he was the fulcrum upon which the Wheel was turning, the engine of life, etc, etc (I always found EG repetetive about it!:p as if he had to convince himself about what he was saying!), so he put his Eye at the center of the Spirit Symbol (that is in fact a spiral, like something turning) and his bodies around it.

Allegory
21st Dec 2011, 19:38
The Futhark Runes were based on the earlier Etruscan runes, which explains the many other cultural features in the Legacy of Kain. Such as the German histories introduced, or the blood sacrifices of the "Ancients", who are based on the Etruscan civilisation.

Paradoks
8th Jul 2012, 11:20
I think that in Defiance in the Cemetery only two futhark runes signs were mentioned - "rest in peace" in the first crypt and "here lies Kain" in Kain's mausoleum.
However I don't remember anyone discussing this one:
http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/1368/tombtext.png
It can be found on several arches in Kain's crypt. I know that first word is Kain but I'm having trouble "translating" the rest of the sentence.

And on a slightly less serious note: this can be found in the Sarafan Keep in BO2:
http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/6114/solart.png
Notice the sign on the bottom right corner. It looks like it ends with ".com". Did the hylden invent the Internet? :D

Guardian of Spirit
8th Jul 2012, 15:28
I think that in Defiance in the Cemetery only two futhark runes signs were mentioned - "rest in peace" in the first crypt and "here lies Kain" in Kain's mausoleum.
However I don't remember anyone discussing this one:
http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/1368/tombtext.png
It can be found on several arches in Kain's crypt. I know that first word is Kain but I'm having trouble "translating" the rest of the sentence.


it should say... I agree the first part is kain... then.. R..something that could be L or E..then M or R...then an S??... then something that seems simply 3 curved lines... very confusing >_< the third word... C..R..I or L..R.. T....
:mad2: it doesn't make sense! >_<


And on a slightly less serious note: this can be found in the Sarafan Keep in BO2:
http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/6114/solart.png
Notice the sign on the bottom right corner. It looks like it ends with ".com". Did the hylden invent the Internet? :D

ahahah! nice found! =)

Bazielim
8th Jul 2012, 17:19
Yeah that is a rather annoying one because it's far too small in game to make out clearly what the individual characters are .
I've looked through the textures, which makes it slightly clearer, but not by a lot because the whole door is included in the texture set, though it's better lit than the in game (Cemetery 4a 0031 and Cemetery 10a 0050 if anyone has the means)
First word is definitely "Kain"
Second word is R, I(eye), unidentified, R, then possibly J/Y - the rest of that word is a bit unclear but it looks like R, then T/Z to end.
The last word looks like a S, then a W/V or R, and looks like another R, T to end.
I think with how small and unclear it is (and with at least one symbol looking like it's not in the bloodscript guide - it even looks like a lower-case i on the textures), this might be a case of having to ask.

Rivenmjk
8th Jul 2012, 19:24
And on a slightly less serious note: this can be found in the Sarafan Keep in BO2:
http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/6114/solart.png
Notice the sign on the bottom right corner. It looks like it ends with ".com". Did the hylden invent the Internet? :D

LMAO!! clearly,someone didn't bother to remove the watermark here.
it looks like it says CORBIS.

The_Hylden
8th Jul 2012, 19:56
Half the time, I think the BO2 team were taking bets on how much camp, comedy, and silliness they could get away with putting in their game and us fans still would buy it :p

diuqSehT
8th Jul 2012, 22:51
They created the internet and their banishment makes them experts on global warming.
hylden = Al Gore