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Darkhalo
22nd Sep 2005, 15:01
I had an arguement last night with an anime freak. Nothing wrong with anime. I love anime. He was a freak because of what he said and I thought someone here would love to comment on this one...

Kain V.S. Sesshomaru from Inu Yasha.

For those of you who don't know who Sesshomaru is, watch InuYasha on Cartoon Network--he's the one with the purplish-pinkish eye shadow and the big feather boa...yeah. Someone comment on this so I can let the Sesshomaru freak read it. I know I'm not the only one who sees no contest here....

WraithStar
22nd Sep 2005, 17:55
Hey now, don't insult Sesshomaru...It all depends on which version of Kain we are talking about here. If it's young BO1 Kain, Sesshomaru will win. If it's BO2 Kain, it will probably be a tie. If it's Defiance Kain, Sesshomaru will realize that fighting Kain is pointless, so he won't get into a fight. :)

TheWatcher
22nd Sep 2005, 19:30
Tough call to make. It's rare to ever see Sesshomaru fight. All I ever see him do is walk around. I'll have to go with WrathStar on this. BO1 Kain would be an easy kill, even with the reaver. Inuyasha could probably take him down with the Wind Scar. SR1/Defiance Kain would be a real fight - either a draw or Kain would come out on top IMO.

DMraider
24th Sep 2005, 10:01
Bo1 Kain owns him, he just throws a spell that controls his mind or calls lightning from the sky. Or the death spell hehe. :)

rabban
24th Sep 2005, 20:33
...from my knowledge of lok bo1 kain uses all his powers elder kain is more reserved and thoughtful.

...looking at pics of this Sesshomaru guy i'm sure this has something to do with big white hair more then it has to do with brute strength or intellect. kain would tear off his hide and give it to melchiah.

WraithStar
25th Sep 2005, 17:21
Sesshomaru is an extremely powerful demon. He is very reserved. He rarely fights because he knows he's the best and he doesn't feel the need to dirty his hands on weak opponents. When he does fight, though, it's incredible. BO1 Kain would make a rash mistake and lose. BO2 Kain would probably be more careful, so it would be a tie. Elder Kain is as reserved and careful as Sesshomaru, so they probably would not fight each other.

rabban
25th Sep 2005, 19:36
like i said...big white hair...

Darkhalo
26th Sep 2005, 19:53
Well everyone has mixed feelings about Kain vs Sesshomaru...how bout Sephiroth from Final Fantasy? That topic was brought up during the argument with some very fanatical anime people. I didn't know how that one would play out.

Smoke_Z
26th Sep 2005, 20:00
After we finish figuring out if Kain or Sephiroth would win...

Let's do Kain vs. Alucard. :D

Riovanes
26th Sep 2005, 20:31
Well everyone has mixed feelings about Kain vs Sesshomaru...how bout Sephiroth from Final Fantasy? That topic was brought up during the argument with some very fanatical anime people. I didn't know how that one would play out.

Sephiroth, hands-down, for anything but a Defiance/SR-1 era Kain.

Yes, I'm much more devoted to the FF series than LoK, but let's look at this one objectively instead of from a fanboy-ish perspective.

BO-1 era Kain vs Sephiroth:

-Kain has the Reaver and a few spells, including the ability to call down lightning and rip flesh from bone.

-Sephiroth strikes down adult dragons with a single stroke from his sword, has a spell repetoire that includes the ability to call down comets and summon beasts to fight for him, and has the JENOVA mutagen at his ready disposal.

Analysis: Kain tries a spell, Sephiroth's ridiculous level of magic resistance deflects it, and Kain is summarily ground into dust either by Sephiroth's superior strength or his comet spell.

BO-2 era Kain vs Sephiroth:

-Kain, now older and slightly more powerful is either bereft of the Reaver (pre-Sarafan Lord battle), or has just retrieved it. Can move in mist, leap great distances, and control minds.

-Sephiroth's abilities remain static.

Analysis: Sephiroth is immune to mind control on the basis of superior magic resistance and his exposure to the JENOVA material (it's not stated outright in the game, but he is immune to "confuse," attacks, which are similar in nature to mind control). Same basic battle progression as in previous example - Kain is crushed, no contest.

SR-1/2/Defiance-era Kain:

-Kain, now essentially a living god, possesses incredible psycho-kinetic (PK) powers, the ability to phase in and out of the material and spectral realms at will, controls the fully-powered Reaver, and possesses all of his previous dark gifts.

-Sephiroth remains static.

Analysis: This one is too tough to call. For any of you who've played FF7 and paid close attention to the story, by the end of the game Sephiroth is a self-made god. He is LITERALLY a deity - but then, by this point in the LoK timeline, so is Kain. This is one of those battles that would rage all day and well into the night, and whomever emerged victorious would be battered into a state of newborn-kitten weakness, making them easy prey for other, fresh rivals.

I'd call this one an either/or battle - either Kain phases into spectral and destroys Sephiroth's metaphysical self right off the bat, or Sephiroth nullifies Kain's abilities with his "Pale Horse," spell, and then burns him out of existence with the ultimate destructive magic/black materia.

Final Analysis:

Until Kain achieves godhood in the Defiance/SR-1/-2 era, he's nothing even approaching a match for Sephiroth, chiefly because Sephiroth already IS a god in FF7. After Kain rises to deification, the matchup becomes more interesting.

As for the InuYasha comment - it's a cartoon, wherein all displays of power are related to the script, and many times are used as a convenient plot contrivance to span massive holes in the story. A comparison between any character from this DBZ-related work and a seriously developed character is illogical at best, farcical at worst.

Apocrypha Roxy
26th Sep 2005, 20:43
How about Kain v. Kratos?
Both become deities; one starts out blessed by the god of war himself.
(And if you beat the game - including God Mode - there are secrets to be discovered. I'm not telling...)

Well? The Reaver against the Blades of Chaos. Seems interesting.

What do you guys think? I'm not good at this stuff...

wishmaster
26th Sep 2005, 21:43
Kratos would be an easy kill seeing as he got his power from greek
or roman gods he would have the same weekness as those gods.
Therefore Kain would only have to put some Hind's blood on the tip
of the reaver and that's the last of the Kratos.

Darkhalo
26th Sep 2005, 22:59
Hmmm...

The problem with Defiance-era Kain going taking on anyone is that he IS relatively a god. Not to mention that he's had lifetimes to develop a million ways to fight, kill, maim...and to develop his mental prowess and tactical manuevers.

Unless...

...someone had the most evil, sadistic weapon there could possibly be against the King of all Vampires...

THE SUPER-SOAKER!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes, sad but true.

rabban
26th Sep 2005, 23:37
how bout Sephiroth from Final Fantasy?

big....white...hair!!!...AGAIN!!!

fneh
27th Sep 2005, 11:45
sephiroth could just cast water or any holy magic (IE cure3)............. bye bye kain. Even Defiance era Kain wouldn't stand a chance against sephy (or just about any other FF character for that matter)


.... and Rabban, last I checked Kain also has BIG WHITE HAIR...... :p

The_Hylden
27th Sep 2005, 16:01
While "Sephy" is taking his good ol' time to cast those ridiculous spells, Kain mists right on up to his front and reaves his soul. Say goodbye to all of those thousands of HP points:p

Realistically, Kain would only have to go into mist form to avoid any water spell;)

or super-soaker action, for that matter:p

WraithStar
27th Sep 2005, 17:15
If it's humanoid-looking Sephiroth that you see from time to time throughout the game, Kain would definitely win. If it's that freaky mutant-thing at the end, I have a really weird image in my mind of Kain trying to breed chocobos to get the Knights of the Round materia :p All of the characters in FF7 are way too powerful, so it sort of cancels out in the game I guess. Anyhow, if Kain was in the FF7 world to fight Sephiroth, Kain would have access to the same spells as Cloud, and if Cloud can beat Sephiroth, then Kain definitely can too. (Seriously, can you see Kain standing there waiting his turn to attack, and then saying something like, "I summon Bahamut Zero..." :p)

Darkhalo
27th Sep 2005, 18:25
After we finish figuring out if Kain or Sephiroth would win...

Let's do Kain vs. Alucard. :D


Okay all big white hair aside...Because they are all pretty fluffy on this thread so far...especially Sessh with his cute li'l boa (which Kain WOULD strangle him with by the way).

What about Alucard? I haven't seen much Hellsing. Doesn't he use guns? Cuz that really wouldn't mix too well. I think he's a vampire hunter, right?

Kain and Sephiroth would probably kill eachother anyway. You can't really place Kain in a situation where he has to wait his turn, so he's not going to be on Final Fantasy. It would have to be the two meeting up somewhere in a dark alley or something. And what would start that fight? Do they bump into eachother or what? Sword envy? --"Yeah?!! Well...It's HOW you use it!"

Smoke_Z
27th Sep 2005, 23:08
What about Alucard? I haven't seen much Hellsing. Doesn't he use guns? Cuz that really wouldn't mix too well. I think he's a vampire hunter, right?


Actually, about Alucard, I've only watched the first episode and read some fanfiction which disagrees enough that I know it can't be accurate.

What I can see is that Alucard is an extremely powerful vampire. He was plowed down by machine gun fire, but after a few seconds his body reformed. In another gunfight, one of his bullets knocked aside the only one from the volley that would've actually hit him.

It seems that water doesn't hurt vampires in his world, but there is a silver allergy. Alucard is allied with vampire hunters, but he also seems to have a territorial thing going, or he can't stand the behaivior of weaker vampires.

Edit: My personal opinion on whether Alucard or Kain would win is.... They're both pretty hard to kill. The fight would depend on who can figure out the other's weakness first. (Probably to kill the guy with his own weapon instead of yours.)

rabban
27th Sep 2005, 23:09
And what would start that fight?

lol...it would have something to do with shampoo and hair conditioner.

Riovanes
28th Sep 2005, 14:31
The trouble with the Alucard question is that we must first determine which one we want to focus on; the Alucard from the Castlevania series (who would, in my opinion, own the living crap out of Kain), or the Alucard from Hellsing.

Either way, this brings me to the point I was trying to make (and which was expounded upon by others to a greater degree) in my previous post concerning Sephiroth vs. Kain:

Games are designed as compact, singular universes. They are worlds unto themselves, and expressions of power, agility, etc. are all relative to the worlds in which they occur. Making a comparison between a character from world A and a character from world B is about as effective as spitting into the wind to see if it will come back to you - the whole thing is rendered moot by the fact that the answer should be slapping you in the face from the beginning - that being that there is, of course, no answer.

I look at it this way (and this is my last comment in this vein, I swear): Trying to make these comparisons is a bit like bringing Magic cards to a poker game. Yes, you still have cards, so you are technically properly equipped to play the game, but since your cards have things like mana and creatures on them, it's gonna be awfully damned hard to adapt them to the poker game. After all, does an ace of spades beat your +5/+5 flying creature, or doesn't it? And do five mana cards of the same color constitute a flush?

DMraider
28th Sep 2005, 15:22
Kain can`t die. In BO1 even he slayed thousands of beasts, spirits...whole nosgoth.

And how can you like FF more than LOK?! turn based...if its was real like secret of mana it would be cool. And Kain is cooler than anyone! :)

Riovanes
28th Sep 2005, 16:33
Kain can`t die. In BO1 even he slayed thousands of beasts, spirits...whole nosgoth.

And how can you like FF more than LOK?! turn based...if its was real like secret of mana it would be cool. And Kain is cooler than anyone! :)

I assume that by, "real," you meant, "real-time."

As for how anyone can like FF more than LoK, or Kain's relative coolness - I shall do those who have put a lot of hard work into the LoK series a favor by not enumerating the reasons (all of them aesthetic in nature) why FF as a whole (not the individual games, mind, as some of them were garbage - like VIII) outstrips LoK like it's not even there. Let us leave it at those of us who are published writers appreciate seeing our craft put to such fine, contiguous (no, that's not a typo), and eloquent use. We do not appreciate plot holes, convenient contrivances, or inexplicable character appearances which amount to no more than fan-service (oh, we didn't miss Turel because we didn't have time to code him in properly - he was ALWAYS meant to have time-travelled and been completely missed by both the demi-god Kain and Raziel).

Also, playing a character who has godlike powers right from the start and needs no real buildup whatsoever (so he learns a few spells - great) is actually very boring and munchkinish (which if you don't get that term, go talk to a few of your friends who play pen-and-paper RPGs, or read 8-bit theater - you'll find a suitable contextual definition for the word, and its synonym, twink). Seriously, I don't want my character to be all-powerful right from the start - it removes any semblance of challenge from the game, and tears the moorings out of my disbelief suspension bridge from the word go.

I could go on, but as I said, I'd rather not rattle off a list of strengths versus glaring weaknesses. The short version is that I believe the FF series is, on the whole, better developed, a more involving experience (in that you build your characters up instead of starting out as a godling who needs only a few blood upgrades and spells), and I've yet to encounter an FF game that locks up, freezes, or crashes my console outright *coughBO2cough, coughDefiancecough*.

I think that about covers it. ;)

rabban
28th Sep 2005, 18:05
*Rabban stares at Riovanes with blinding hatred*

HERETIC!!!!

*rabban whips foam off of his mouth*

i just want to point out that we are not talking about a true intellectual topic here... this is all about being a fanboy i mean anytime you take 2 or more franchises and decide to merge them together you must merge the universes too...i can't even see that happening given the nature of FF...you can't put donald duck and kain in the same room together...it's just not right...but sephiroth has no problem with that...in fact if sephiroth can lose a fight with a duck, mouse or 14 year old boy i question his godhood.

anyways, there must be a common battleground...in castlevania it would be vampires...but the whole vampire mythology is different...it would be comparable to having wesley snipes' blade hunt down gary oldman's dracula.
some franchises should not bump ugly.

i like lok and barely give ff or castlevania the time of day. both of those franchises are well designed but seem quite stale like, they were created on a conveyor belt.

lok feels like it has a philosophy or statement to make...even from bo1.

that can't be said for castlevania.

and FF?...well that maybe a different story but i'd hate to play a series that links one corporations cast of characters with anothers...it just reeks of money grubbing...

DMraider
28th Sep 2005, 18:37
Riovannes the story of LOK is so original and creative...it`s great.

In BO1 u do start weak to very strong. In the other LOK games u don`t... I know I really like that too but the story and puzzles made up for it. SR2 and BO1. Both very different but both very good in it`s unique ways...

At least something different than the usual RPG style =]

Riovannes did u play secret of mana? That 1 was good.


Oh and I didn`t play FF but I did play 4 castlevania games. 1 on SNES, 1 on PS2, 2 on the GBA... That one on the PS2 and the SNES are very good!

Riovanes
28th Sep 2005, 20:04
Riovannes the story of LOK is so original and creative...it`s great.

In BO1 u do start weak to very strong. In the other LOK games u don`t... I know I really like that too but the story and puzzles made up for it. SR2 and BO1. Both very different but both very good in it`s unique ways...

At least something different than the usual RPG style =]

Riovannes did u play secret of mana? That 1 was good.


Oh and I didn`t play FF but I did play 4 castlevania games. 1 on SNES, 1 on PS2, 2 on the GBA... That one on the PS2 and the SNES are very good!

*chuckles*

Thanks for taking my ranting with good humor - most people here can't.

Really, the difference between LoK and FF is just down to a matter of opinion - and as Rabban pointed out, it's a case of fanboyism on both sides - we remain loyal to the franchise we came to first, and that's just how it is.

As for Secret of Mana - allow me to outline for you my game collection for the SNES:

Note: All cartridges are originals.

-Secret of Mana - Mint condition, but played. I tend to keep everything in protective cases/covers, and even when I've been enjoying liquid bread to a greater extent than I should, I still take immaculate care of my systems and games.

-Chrono Trigger - Two copies, both from the original US run in 1995. One is my, "play," copy, the other is still in its original cellophane wrapping, and currently is valued at around $250 at the game store on the corner. (The owner actually offered me a premium XBox 360 for it, and I still wouldn't give it to him.) I still play my open copy at least once a year.

-Final Fantasy III - Mint, but unboxed and played - original 1994 run US release. This, along with Chrono Trigger, is one of those games I break out and start a new game in at least once a year. It's the first RPG I ever really invested myself in and did well enough in to constitute having truly, "played," the game, and therefore it's still my favorite, although CT is a very close second.

-Final Fantasy II - Original SNES run. Cartridge is in impeccable shape, although the guy I bought it from didn't have the box or the manual. The good news is, this is the same guy who salivated over my boxed, wrapped CT, so he sold the cartridge to me for $35 (it averages $60+ on e-bay). Arguably one of the toughest RPGs on the SNES - and I've got the Japanese release coming, which is supposed to be even worse.

-Secret of Evermore - Not quite up to SoM standards, but still a good game.

soothsayer
30th Sep 2005, 16:47
Personally I think Kain would win against Sesshomaru or Sepheroth.
(I never played god of war so I'll leave krykos out)

1. It would be almost impossible for them to kill each-other. Kain re-spawns, seshomaru teleports right before he is in real trouble, and Sepherothe/Jenova appear to be undying, and if killed reappear in some way, often through clones. However Kain is the toughest to get rid of for a while, since he is the only one that can regenerate fully. Seshomaru heals, but can't re-grow missing organs, and Kain's maiming tendencies would make him avoid Kain. Beings with Jenova cells are finite, so if Kain ever tried he could simply keep killing them till there is none left.

2. All Anime characters possess physics defying strength, Kain follows relatively realistic physics. So t make it a fair fight Kain would need to be given unrealistic strength enhancement, that combined with already great strength and his ability to become weightless would make him beat either character in a contest of pure fighting ability.

3. As far as weapons go Kain's is the best. Masumane is non enchanted. Tokijin is vary similar to the reaver, but it can't eat souls. The reaver wins because if any direct hit and they are not coming back, especially seshomaru. I think if sepheroth got reaver he'd end up as life-stream fodder. And Kain, after he is purified, is immune to the reaver's effects, since he is it's current incarnation, it would cause a paradox if it devoured it self.

4. Magic wise Kain wins. Seshomaru has none of his own. And Sepheroth uses materia spells. Kain is an all natural sorcerer, and he would be even stronger if he could get some materia.