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dhama
28th Aug 2005, 14:40
Having thought long and hard about level editor for Legend, I came to the conclusion that, for me anyway, a Tomb Raider 'Do it yourself' kit would be a cool thing instead. As a seperate entity from Legend. Of course Tomb Raider games could still be avaiable for those that just like to play.

Do you remember toys of yester-year like 'Action man' and 'Barbie dolls' (not quite politically correct these days lol) but you had all the equipment to make your own adventure, and hours were spent in this pursuit.

Video games today are great, and there may be some that feel their imagination isn't good enough to create their own adventure, or indeed *too lazy to even contemplate it :D

But something like a TR 'Do it yourself' kit does appeal to me. It would contain not just a room editor, but a character editor, texture editor, animation editor, in fact everything you ever need to create your own adventure.

Some would say we already have this with the orginal editor, well sort of, but it would be nicer if all elements were capable of integration.

Anyway, thats just my view. :)






*Disclaimer: In no way directed at anyone in particular. ;)

imported_Mark_
28th Aug 2005, 15:04
Sounds a great idea for me, of course. I just don't think Eidos/SCi will hear you. :(

SeRmOnGaR
28th Aug 2005, 17:17
It would be fantastic a level editor for TR Legend :eek: But I think EIDOS won't release it

Xxx_Lara_xxX
28th Aug 2005, 19:34
The good: That's a great idea! I love playing fan-made levels, especially the very creative ones. Its a good way to relive new TR addventures while waiting for the next game

The bad: But what if, with the total DIY Tomb Raider kit, some fan made games were better than some of the official later TR games ahem AOD ahem... :eek: That would be a corporate embarassment

The ugly: okay, when you say character-texture editor, given the dank desperate state of some people's minds, you just know what that means -- multiple nude raider skins!! :(

Otherwise, I think it would be so cool :)

dhama
28th Aug 2005, 20:24
The good: That's a great idea! I love playing fan-made levels, especially the very creative ones. Its a good way to relive new TR addventures while waiting for the next game

The bad: But what if, with the total DIY Tomb Raider kit, some fan made games were better than some of the official later TR games ahem AOD ahem... :eek: That would be a corporate embarassment

The ugly: okay, when you say character-texture editor, given the dank desperate state of some people's minds, you just know what that means -- multiple nude raider skins!! :(

Otherwise, I think it would be so cool :)

They already have been surpassed with the original editor, and there will allways be morons about.. best just to ignore them ;)

cornchild
29th Aug 2005, 00:09
I think it is a great idea, as a new editor is needed.

If you look around sites that feature video game news you can see that several other game developers have released editors with their games to make the games last longer and to keep interest in the franchise.

many of the companies have even gone as far as releasing the source code to their old engines to help support independent game developers.

With a game like Tomb Raider this is a great addition as you cannot find really any 3d third-person adventure games that include an editor or tools to create your own adventure.

The issue of it would be too much work comes up when an editor is asked for, but I think that it would not be that much work. All that is needed is a basic manual of the functions.

The users can learn the rest. This is what forums and user bases, faq's are established for.

With an editor the game does not have to end after you finish the offical game. People can build new adventures with new story lines or make new versions of previous story lines.

I think it would be a wonderful opportunity to increase the games popularity.

Sophia Leigh
29th Aug 2005, 07:54
Thats a great idea Dhama :thumbsup: that way someone could make an ending to AOD and include Kurtis.

star girl
1st Sep 2005, 13:13
Thats a great idea Dhama :thumbsup: that way someone could make an ending to AOD and include Kurtis.

:eek: GOD MUM!!!

Our thoughts match way too much! I was about to say the same thing!

Lara Croft Winner
2nd Sep 2005, 16:20
Edios You Did It With Chronicles You Can Do It Again The Chroncles Editor Is So Old Were Even Making New Ouffits And Anamations For Lara See tr search for wad meger and more come crystal dynamics and edios come on even lots of people even registered on your website even if the hate tomb raider like my sisters Come On Edios Cause Even Send Us The Programme In 2006 On Web Site Come On Edios Please Other wise you might be rouning your name even crystal dnmatics

Psychopompador
2nd Sep 2005, 16:44
that was very hard to understand

Number6
2nd Sep 2005, 18:10
People were so in love with Lara (I think the word is not too strong here) that a whole group of programmer went and did a complete set of tools just to be able to write new levels . They ended up with an editor suite to make Level type 4 Tomb Raiding games.

Meanwhile, TRLE came out and drained all others who were not programers but just able-bodied level makers and these started to write type 5 TR levels.

Now watch this space that if the new game is so good, the same (or a new group of) programmers just don't go and write an editor for it. Plus a whole suite of tools to help game designer.

JunoJIm
3rd Oct 2005, 04:34
They already have been surpassed with the original editor, and there will allways be morons about.. best just to ignore them ;)

I agree - a few of the "custom" games (you can guess who I'm talking about) have surpassed AOD and Chronicles too !!!

Number6
3rd Oct 2005, 12:58
>The ugly: okay, when you say character-texture editor, given the dank >desperate state of some people's minds, you just know what that means -- >multiple nude raider skins!!

...err.. how about a Lara with tatoo, ..with scars, ...with dirt on.

How about a Lara that can take damage and show it?
Then when she takes those power ups, the damage gets undone or patched over with wound battle dressing...

How about the clothes she wear can be ripped when running through briar patches?

Just a couple of ideas.

Nude Raiders will always be with us.
Just keep playing the game: the best revenge is good living.

jay2
3rd Oct 2005, 21:23
For god's sake,are you guy's for real?
Do you really think a level editor would be released with legend?.
I believe (hope)legend to be the start of a new era for tombraider and releasing a level editor would be financial suicide.

Don't get me wrong i would love a level editor,but it's not going to happen.

Trinity34
3rd Oct 2005, 22:31
This might be a stupid question but I have never used the level editor to create levels ....... is it possible to use another company's updated level editor to make new TR games?

CatSuit&Ponytail
4th Oct 2005, 09:13
This might be a stupid question but I have never used the level editor to create levels ....... is it possible to use another company's updated level editor to make new TR games?
Of course. They would feel a bit different of course, and the interface would be altered, but it's possible. :)

Mangar The Dark
4th Oct 2005, 15:26
I'm not sure if this is quite what you meant, dhama, but I'd be happy to get an updated editor with Legend, even if it "only" allowed me to create games similar to the first 5 TR games.

I know, I know-- people are going to say, "They already did that with Chronicles." True, but that level editor felt somewhat incomplete to me... no moveable/climable blocks, no texture editors, too many obscure codes, etc, etc. What I would love to see (though I know I won't) is a more comprehensive editor that DOES include those classic moveable blocks and a proper texture editor (for scenery, characters and objects.) Heck, let's go one step further-- how about a simple 3D modeling tool so we can create our own objects and enemies (and while on the subject of enemies, how about an enemy editor that allows us to set things like the number of "hit points" an enemy has, and their ability to dodge attacks?)

Then, to top it all off, how about some more user-friendly editing? Instead of having to remember a arcane codes for everything, how about just some simple-to-understand prompts?

Of course, a lot of people are already creating their own objects and textures and whatnot, but whenever I've tried doing it, it always felt so clumsy. To have everything incorporated into one complete, robust editor would be great. Remember back in the 80s when there were programs like "Adventure Construction Set," "Garry Kitchen's Gamemaker," "The Programmer's BASIC Toolkit," etc? I miss those days!

Po Yu
4th Oct 2005, 16:05
This is a good idea :)
but I don't think Eidos will release TRL level editor,nor.
and I think TRL level editor may be hard to build a level for us~ :confused:

(So far, I never finished building a level by TRLE :p )

Number6
4th Oct 2005, 17:34
I'm not sure if this is quite what you meant...

I know, I know-- people are going to say, "They already did that with Chronicles." True, but that level editor felt somewhat incomplete to me... no moveable/climable blocks, no texture editors, too many obscure codes, etc, etc. What I would love to see (though I know I won't) is a more comprehensive editor that DOES include those classic moveable blocks and a proper texture editor (for scenery, characters and objects.)


From what I have seen on coding practice from the inside, the people that makes the game have "only" those clunky programs that are extremely hard to use with steep learning curves. But after years using them, they are so good at them they no longer notice.


Heck, let's go one step further-- how about a simple 3D modeling tool so we can create our own objects and enemies (and while on the subject of enemies, how about an enemy editor that allows us to set things like the number of "hit points" an enemy has, and their ability to dodge attacks?)


They would tell you: use the tools we are using, because they would have to make an editor just for us.

BUT, as a programmer, I would be satisfied with the complete fileformat (the recipe on how to make a level), with all notes, on how to build it and we could make a level editor.



Then, to top it all off, how about some more user-friendly editing? Instead of having to remember a arcane codes for everything, how about just some simple-to-understand prompts?

Of course, a lot of people are already creating their own objects and textures and whatnot, but whenever I've tried doing it, it always felt so clumsy.

See my comment above. I rest my case.

I would not be surprised to learn they are using something like 3DMax studio (4 grands a pop) to make the scenery, some motion capture software with cameras included for animations, some MathCad type software for in-game physics and other too complicated to comtemplate (like how do you make your level music with micro-scoring (see latest interview on bonus CD)).

Unless they give us all their recipe, this will be a long stern chase for us coders.

Mangar The Dark
4th Oct 2005, 19:34
From what I have seen on coding practice from the inside, the people that makes the game have "only" those clunky programs that are extremely hard to use with steep learning curves. But after years using them, they are so good at them they no longer notice.


I'm sure they DO use clunky tools, and yes, I'm sure they've gotten to used to them. BUT, they're doing it to earn a living, we're doing it to have fun. So, I still think it would be cool if they released a more integrated set of tools with more user-friendly commands.

Also, having spent some time doing computer programming, I'm aware that the tools we make for ourselves are often functional but cumbersome. I had been working on an RPG for a while, and I programmed my own map editor, monster editor, item editor, etc. To me, they made sense, but I'd certainly not expect someone else to use them, and if I were planning to make those editors available to others, I'd definitely change their layout to make them more intuitive.

Of course, as you said, I don't think Eidos will ever release a friendlier editor, but we're just talking about what we'd like, not necessarily what will be.

Trinity34
4th Oct 2005, 22:05
I still think its better to use another game's level editor and just import objects and textures from TR games or make some new ones. There must be a way to do it..... :)

~~LaraCroft~~
27th Oct 2005, 06:35
Having thought long and hard about level editor for Legend, I came to the conclusion that, for me anyway, a Tomb Raider 'Do it yourself' kit would be a cool thing instead. As a seperate entity from Legend. Of course Tomb Raider games could still be avaiable for those that just like to play.

Do you remember toys of yester-year like 'Action man' and 'Barbie dolls' (not quite politically correct these days lol) but you had all the equipment to make your own adventure, and hours were spent in this pursuit.

Video games today are great, and there may be some that feel their imagination isn't good enough to create their own adventure, or indeed *too lazy to even contemplate it :D

But something like a TR 'Do it yourself' kit does appeal to me. It would contain not just a room editor, but a character editor, texture editor, animation editor, in fact everything you ever need to create your own adventure.

Some would say we already have this with the orginal editor, well sort of, but it would be nicer if all elements were capable of integration.

Anyway, thats just my view. :)






*Disclaimer: In no way directed at anyone in particular. ;)

Yea but Eidos might not relase it because then people won't be intresed in TR because they would be able to make there own, so that might lower the Sales. :(