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Nahirean
22nd Aug 2005, 21:37
Hello folks, I have completed my mod for imperial glory thanks to Icanus and his awesome program!!

Here are some screenshots:


Melee!

http://img373.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ss16rq.jpg

Line Fighting!

http://img373.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ss27dh.jpg

French Firing into the Ruckus

http://img373.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ss32sz.jpg

Triangle of Death

http://img373.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ss46rg.jpg

Imperial Skirmish - No longer!

http://img373.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ss52zk.jpg

French in a bad situation

http://img373.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ss61yt.jpg

------------[end screenshots]---

Here's the readme for the Mod:

------------[begin readme]------


Nahirean Mod v0.1 for Imperial Glory.


Before I begin here I would like to extend my personal thanks to Icanus. Without his program this mod and most likely
several to come would have not been possible.

-----------
Purpose
-----------

The purpose of this mod is to prolong combat interactions and simulate a more realistic combat scenario.

Here's how I am going to do this:



:: Infantry ::

I am going to increase infantry unit sizes to 180 men per unit and reduce their combat accuracy.

When purchasing "BETTER" units or "UPGRADING" units you need to know the following:

With infantry I am using a ARMOR SCALING system to simulate a "better" unit since ALL OF THE UNITS will have uniform attack
stats. Logic dictates that if two units fire on each other yet one has more armor they will suffer less
casualties and thus win. But the kill rate will be LOW regardless. I have tested this and it works.
What follows is the armor layout.

Remember, this system does NOT include what will happen if you use STRATEGY on the battlefield. I hope that
this mod makes the use of strategy more important.


:: Artillery ::

With this release I am leaving Artillery unchanged.


:: Cavalry ::

The goal here is to keep cavalry strong in melee combat but very vulernable to musket fire.

I am making every Cavalry unit contain 100 men. I am leaving thier melee values IN TACT and reducing their armor values. They
can be viewed on my table below.

** Please note that any Cavalry unit that can shoot is getting their gunfire stats reduced to infantry level.



Here's the unit Ranged Resistance table.

* Please note that Light Infantry get a slight bonus to ranged combat to make the unit strategically viable.



-----------
Cavalry
-----------


Camel Lancer Armor Values per Rank:

0, 1, 5, 10, 15


Camel Marksman Armor values per Rank:

5, 10, 15, 20, 25


Dragoon Armor values per Rank:

5, 10, 15, 20, 25


Hussar Armor values per Rank:

0, 1, 5, 10, 15


Lancer Armor values per Rank:

0, 1, 5, 10, 15


Lifeguard Armor values per Rank:

0, 5, 10, 15, 20


Marmeluke Armor values per Rank:

0, 5, 10, 15, 20



-----------
Infantry
-----------


Line Infantry Armor values per Rank:

20, 30, 40, 50, 60


Rifleman Infantry Armor values per Rank:

30, 40, 50, 60, 70


"Militia" Armor values per Rank:

0, 0, 0, 0, 0


Light Infantry Armor values per Rank:

15, 25, 35, 45, 55


Grenadier Infantry Armor values per rank:

55, 60, 65, 70, 80


Blackwatch Infantry Armor values per rank:

70, 75, 80, 85, 90


Now there's only ONE problem here. **I NEED SOMEONE TO HOST MY .DT FILE!!!** :) Anyone want to host this badboy?


*EDIT*

This mod is delayed indefinately. Pyro's lackluster game design has doomed the concept unfortunately. Let's hope things change in the future.

Eruan
22nd Aug 2005, 21:43
Just for curiosity, how big is it? :confused:

Nahirean
22nd Aug 2005, 21:43
Just for curiosity, how big is it? :confused:

The .dt file is about 32kilobytes.

moetman
22nd Aug 2005, 23:42
Here's some screens of my edited .dt

http://www.hotkey.net.au/~paulp_adsl/CAVALRY/images/ImperialGlory0.gif

http://www.hotkey.net.au/~paulp_adsl/CAVALRY/images/ImperialGlory1.gif

don't know if it really shows off how awesome increasing the unit size looks

Fiddlerpig
23rd Aug 2005, 02:48
ok, where can we download it?

officerpuppy
23rd Aug 2005, 03:27
Seems like id have to tone down my Smoke mod, with so much infantry fireing at once, the smoke effect would cause serious lag. I'll have to d/l this mod when it comes out to experiment with my mod and release a 2nd version.
Cant wait to try it out though, finally a mod that increases the # of infantry on the screen. I always thought that even huge battles looked a little small to me.

You can get it hosted at:http://www.tafn.info/TAFN/imperialglory/html/index.php

Gunfreak
23rd Aug 2005, 08:51
yes this is perfect, i was just gonna start another game of IG, but now i'll wait a copel of hour's

this looks great, but arn't that map's gonna be a little smal, with 3000 units on both sides

edit: another ting, have you removed the militia, i would hate to se a horde of 3000 of them comming at me

madmaxthebest
23rd Aug 2005, 08:54
Hello folks, I have completed my mod for imperial glory thanks to Icanus and his awesome program!!

Here are some screenshots:


Melee!

http://img373.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ss16rq.jpg

Line Fighting!

http://img373.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ss27dh.jpg

French Firing into the Ruckus

http://img373.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ss32sz.jpg

Triangle of Death

http://img373.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ss46rg.jpg

Imperial Skirmish - No longer!

http://img373.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ss52zk.jpg

French in a bad situation

http://img373.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ss61yt.jpg

------------[end screenshots]---

Here's the readme for the Mod:

------------[begin readme]------


Nahirean Mod v0.1 for Imperial Glory.


Before I begin here I would like to extend my personal thanks to Icanus. Without his program this mod and most likely
several to come would have not been possible.

-----------
Purpose
-----------

The purpose of this mod is to prolong combat interactions and simulate a more realistic combat scenario.

Here's how I am going to do this:



:: Infantry ::

I am going to increase infantry unit sizes to 180 men per unit and reduce their combat accuracy.

When purchasing "BETTER" units or "UPGRADING" units you need to know the following:

With infantry I am using a ARMOR SCALING system to simulate a "better" unit since ALL OF THE UNITS will have uniform attack
stats. Logic dictates that if two units fire on each other yet one has more armor they will suffer less
casualties and thus win. But the kill rate will be LOW regardless. I have tested this and it works.
What follows is the armor layout.

Remember, this system does NOT include what will happen if you use STRATEGY on the battlefield. I hope that
this mod makes the use of strategy more important.


:: Artillery ::

With this release I am leaving Artillery unchanged.


:: Cavalry ::

The goal here is to keep cavalry strong in melee combat but very vulernable to musket fire.

I am making every Cavalry unit contain 100 men. I am leaving thier melee values IN TACT and reducing their armor values. They
can be viewed on my table below.

** Please note that any Cavalry unit that can shoot is getting their gunfire stats reduced to infantry level.



Here's the unit Ranged Resistance table.

* Please note that Light Infantry get a slight bonus to ranged combat to make the unit strategically viable.



-----------
Cavalry
-----------


Camel Lancer Armor Values per Rank:

0, 1, 5, 10, 15


Camel Marksman Armor values per Rank:

5, 10, 15, 20, 25


Dragoon Armor values per Rank:

5, 10, 15, 20, 25


Hussar Armor values per Rank:

0, 1, 5, 10, 15


Lancer Armor values per Rank:

0, 1, 5, 10, 15


Lifeguard Armor values per Rank:

0, 5, 10, 15, 20


Marmeluke Armor values per Rank:

0, 5, 10, 15, 20



-----------
Infantry
-----------


Line Infantry Armor values per Rank:

20, 30, 40, 50, 60


Rifleman Infantry Armor values per Rank:

30, 40, 50, 60, 70


"Militia" Armor values per Rank:

0, 0, 0, 0, 0


Light Infantry Armor values per Rank:

15, 25, 35, 45, 55


Grenadier Infantry Armor values per rank:

55, 60, 65, 70, 80


Blackwatch Infantry Armor values per rank:

70, 75, 80, 85, 90


Now there's only ONE problem here. **I NEED SOMEONE TO HOST MY .DT FILE!!!** :) Anyone want to host this badboy?
for what is that mod :confused:

sick
23rd Aug 2005, 11:04
**I NEED SOMEONE TO HOST MY .DT FILE!!!**

Sure. Sent you a PM. :)

Icanus
23rd Aug 2005, 12:03
Hello folks, I have completed my mod for imperial glory

have you managed to sort the campaign problem with the first version of my program? if not you can send me over the text files and I'll sort it for you with the updated, work-in-progress version of the program before you post it to TAFN.

Hengist_Sharpe
23rd Aug 2005, 12:46
Looks nice, I'm especially interested in the quote: Imperial Skirmish - No longer! Looking forward to seeing for myself.

Keep up the goodwork. You appear to have done more than the devs did in months, with their so called patch.

Sir Crow
23rd Aug 2005, 14:55
Will it work with existing save games if it can be played in Campaign mode of course.

Nahirean
23rd Aug 2005, 15:26
have you managed to sort the campaign problem with the first version of my program? if not you can send me over the text files and I'll sort it for you with the updated, work-in-progress version of the program before you post it to TAFN.

Icanus, yep. It works fine. Before I release it though, I am actually considering a large amount of rehauling. This is because I find that the melee combat is so unrealistic and it totally takes away from the "Line warfare" that I picture occuring. Also, the "Objectives" on the battlemaps ruin the experience as well. Finally, I would also like to reduce the time and costs of the units to make war a more common thing in the game.

Hengist_Sharpe
23rd Aug 2005, 15:50
Nahirean,

If you can get rid of my number one hate about the game, the troops constantly rushing into melee, then please take your time with the release.

I totally agree with you, when you say... "This is because I find that the melee combat is so unrealistic and it totally takes away from the "Line warfare" that I picture occuring"
(even though I haven't seen your changes yet. I have seen it in the stock game, and for me, it ruins what a Napoleonic era battle should be about).

Take your time, and improve this game where Pyro didn't. I'm sure the wait will be worth it.

Nahirean
23rd Aug 2005, 16:10
Nahirean,

If you can get rid of my number one hate about the game, the troops constantly rushing into melee, then please take your time with the release.

I totally agree with you, when you say... "This is because I find that the melee combat is so unrealistic and it totally takes away from the "Line warfare" that I picture occuring"
(even though I haven't seen your changes yet. I have seen it in the stock game, and for me, it ruins what a Napoleonic era battle should be about).

Take your time, and improve this game where Pyro didn't. I'm sure the wait will be worth it.

Heng,

The cool thing is that with these new settings (Thanks to Icanus) the line troops generally won't rush into Melee unless you're "Too close" to them. I am considering removing Militia units altogether, but at this point I don't know if it's possible..

Gunfreak
23rd Aug 2005, 16:14
i say release it now, and call it a demo or somthing, just so we can play around an test, then when and if you find a solution to the hack and slash, release it as v0.2 or somthing

Angelus888
23rd Aug 2005, 16:17
I've got Icanus's program and made changes, with compiling them back into the file, but in game the units are still 60 strong instead of the 120 that I made them. I took care of making sure health and everything corresponded with the new size.

Queeg
23rd Aug 2005, 18:54
Outstanding worK! You're on the right track. Removing Militia altogether is the way to go, if possible.

Nahirean
23rd Aug 2005, 19:33
Outstanding worK! You're on the right track. Removing Militia altogether is the way to go, if possible.


My goal is to modify every map to do the following:


Remove the silly "Objectives".
Force Line Warfare.

I want to remove Militia units completely. I have been tossing the idea around of removing all but "Dragoon" style cavalry, but I think people would feel limited. But if I understand History correctly, wasn't that a more accurate representation of the warfare? Lines and Lines of men firing at one another?

I have made significant progress figuring out how to persuade the AI to use ranged attacks and not melee combat through the .dt settings. If someone could help figure out how to do the following I would be in their debt:

Modify production costs and turns per unit. At the current rate it's simply too costly and time consuming to produce an impressive army.

Modify maps to remove objectives.

Completely remove Militia units. <-- I've tried making them weak to ranged attacks but the AI still builds them in droves and turns every battle into a slugfest. If I could figure out the resource area I could make them cost 100,000 gold etc in lieu of removing them.

Icanus
23rd Aug 2005, 20:36
Completely remove Militia units. <-- I've tried making them weak to ranged attacks but the AI still builds them in droves and turns every battle into a slugfest. If I could figure out the resource area I could make them cost 100,000 gold etc in lieu of removing them.I believe there's a setting in one of the SB files. Each country has a "IADefsPresidente.sb" file in Imperial Glory\Game\GameModes\Gestion\IA\[COUNTRYNAME]\, which has a number for each unit type determining how much the AI prioritises building them. I've had good results by setting this to 0 for militia, though you still get a few early on (all the starting units, and the AI will still have to build them until they build a barracks and get access to something better).

As to the build costs, I'm still hoping these are in one of the areas of the DT file I haven't examined yet, since I can't find it anywhere else.

Sir Crow
24th Aug 2005, 00:17
I know this is your mod but I think it would be a shame to remove the militia although they do need sorting out. The actual Russian Opolchenie (militia) did act this way in reality and had nothing except pitch forks or a pike but were expected to charge Infantry or cavalry like the regular soldiers and they were not allowed to show fear or pain (they were punished severely if they did). And they were feared to a certain extent, to this end it would be sad to see them go but as has been mentioned I don't think even the Opolchenie would keep charging like the militia in IG. Is there no way they could be made more vunerable to musket fire? Or perhaps slow them down?

Nahirean
24th Aug 2005, 01:01
I know this is your mod but I think it would be a shame to remove the militia although they do need sorting out. The actual Russian Opolchenie (militia) did act this way in reality and had nothing except pitch forks or a pike but were expected to charge Infantry or cavalry like the regular soldiers and they were not allowed to show fear or pain (they were punished severely if they did). And they were feared to a certain extent, to this end it would be sad to see them go but as has been mentioned I don't think even the Opolchenie would keep charging like the militia in IG. Is there no way they could be made more vunerable to musket fire? Or perhaps slow them down?

I could slow them down significantly, but I've already made them incredibly vulernable to musket fire. The problem is they pin down and hold a line of infantry and allow for an easy (and undeserved) victory on some occasions.

maxdo
24th Aug 2005, 01:57
Hi i am new i have a question were can i download this sweet mod i want battles of 1000s not 100s

Grandmaster
24th Aug 2005, 04:54
this mod , looks rather cool , at least somebody is having a good at making this game more playable , nice one, the trouble is i have given to my game to mate to play as i got bored with it, ill demand it back lol when the mod come out :)

FoggyMusket
24th Aug 2005, 12:09
I'm confused, is this mod already released?

Yeah, removing militia would be a great idea, and not having all units charge melee. Making artillery have a longer firing range and more power (getting more kills) but a slower rate of fire is also on the wishlist.

Gunfreak
24th Aug 2005, 12:45
no it's not out yet, but i'm hopeing it's coming out soon

OldBean
26th Aug 2005, 11:59
Hey guys,
Thanks to the program from Icanus and the inspiration from Nahirean, I am playing with 180 man infantry, 120 man cavalry, and 9 gun artillery. I tried changing other things, but got into trouble, so those are the only changes I have made. I am playtesting the game as Russia, and you know how time consuming that is.
If my testing looks ok, I will be glad to share the data with anyone that wants to play around with it.

Gunfreak
26th Aug 2005, 14:38
have you tired to put you're infantry in squere, i think most people get crashes then they tri it

madmaxthebest
26th Aug 2005, 15:24
for what is this mod please :confused:

Nahirean
26th Aug 2005, 16:32
for what is this mod please :confused:

I don't want to upload it until I can change other things, because as it stands now it's just IG with more troops and slightly longer battles. If you guys want that, I'll give you the .dt file.. but I want more!!! :D

Hengist_Sharpe
26th Aug 2005, 17:09
So do I Nahirean, take your time mate.

There's plenty of other games that I can occupy my time with, until your mod comes out.

If you need a hand beta testing, then let me know. Only too glad to help someone who wants to make the game better.

waldi
26th Aug 2005, 17:57
i would like the dt file from you iam new here and just got imperial glory a week ago its a great game but i need to know how to put up the units step by step because i tried and it didnt work. i had rtw and it was a great great game but then i lost the cd and know i want to have big battles can you please help me

waldi
26th Aug 2005, 19:13
naharian could you please help me anybody?

MAXB
26th Aug 2005, 19:18
What do you mean put up the units? I will try to help you if I understand your meaning.

waldi
26th Aug 2005, 19:40
i mean change the number of soliders in a unit

MAXB
26th Aug 2005, 19:51
Did you download Icanus's program and install it in the gamemodes file?

waldi
26th Aug 2005, 20:24
ok this is what i did i downloaded it and placed it in game modes and then i extracted the text files from modecombat and then changed them and i dodnt know wat to do i did it wrong and the game doesnt work i need to reinstall it i need better directions then the ones in the readme file that came with his program

waldi
26th Aug 2005, 20:26
i read your post in the stat editor and you said you changed the units sizes i need to know exactly how to do it because i dont understand it

MAXB
26th Aug 2005, 20:48
ok. As an example go to inf-lightinf. Make the unit size 200. The first 4 lines should look like this:
68 uValTropa: 100 * health per soldier
372 uUnidades: 200 * number of soldiers in unit
376 um_VidaTotal: 20000 * Total Health of unit
380 uVidaActual: 20000 * Current Health of unit


after you change the first 4 lines and they look like this, go back to Icanus program and import text to the DT file. It will then work.

waldi
26th Aug 2005, 20:52
ok ill try it but give me some time i have to reinstall the game
:)

MAXB
26th Aug 2005, 20:54
One more thing. To get the "total health of unit" and the "current health of unit" correct, you have to multiply the number of soilders by 100. If you want to make the unit size 200 soilders, you multiply 200 x 100 which will give you 20000 (lines 3 and 4).

waldi
26th Aug 2005, 21:07
do i need to unpack data pak and if i do if i have the patch do i need to upack data 1?

MAXB
26th Aug 2005, 21:15
Yes. Read the sticky post "description of files that can be modified". It tells you in detail what needs to be done. ;)

waldi
26th Aug 2005, 21:59
i unpacked the data pak and put it in the games main folder then i put the stat editor in gamemodes and then i created a folder unit data and i start the editor and choose option 2 and nothin happens there are no text files and the log says they couldnt be opened succesfully

MAXB
26th Aug 2005, 22:13
Do you have the ModelCombate.dt file in the gamemode file?

waldi
26th Aug 2005, 22:14
never mind i got the text files to show up now comes the tricky part at changing them

MAXB
26th Aug 2005, 22:15
You have to choose option 3 (generate text files from current DT file.) this will put the files in your unitdata folder.

MAXB
26th Aug 2005, 22:18
Let me know if it works or not.

waldi
26th Aug 2005, 22:24
well what if i chose two and the files showed up? well i changed light infintary exactly how you told me and then i dont get this part do i click on the stat editor program and choose option 3 while the text file is still open or wat because i did and then played the game quick battle light infatery and it did nothin still 60 :mad: :mad:

MAXB
26th Aug 2005, 22:27
After you change the light infantry, choose option 4. this imports the files back to dt file. option 3 exports them to the datafile. 4 puts them back in the DT file.

waldi
26th Aug 2005, 22:29
will try wat u said hopefully will work

MAXB
26th Aug 2005, 22:32
The correct order is:
1. open DTfileIO.exe program.
2. choose option 3-generate text files from current dt file.
3. go to unitdata folder and make your changes.
4. go back to program.
5. choose otion 4-import data to dt file.

waldi
26th Aug 2005, 22:35
option 4 is exit program and are the text files supposed to disseaper after you do 4 or wat

MAXB
26th Aug 2005, 22:37
ok. hold on. im using the old version of the program. you must have the new one. let me download the new one and I will tell you what to do. sorry.

MAXB
26th Aug 2005, 22:42
ok. the send unit files to unitdata folder choose option 2. then make your changes to light infantry. then choose option 3. this will put changes in dt file. I havent tried new program yet but it appears to work just like the old one.

Hengist_Sharpe
26th Aug 2005, 22:48
Call the Cops, this thread has been hi-jacked!

waldi
26th Aug 2005, 23:03
when i choose option three do the text files disapear from the unit data folder or no

MAXB
26th Aug 2005, 23:09
No. They will remain in the unitdata folder. I just tried the new program and it works fine.

waldi
26th Aug 2005, 23:17
ok wat the i changed the the unit sizes of a couple different units then i saved the files and imported them back to the dt file should i erase the back up and wen i cover them back to dt do i have to have them highlited and does it matter that i have version 1.0

MAXB
26th Aug 2005, 23:24
Ok. We are using to much of this thread. I'm going to start a nw one called " For Waldi". We can communicate in this new thread and we will take it step by step. You are doing something wrong.

OldBean
27th Aug 2005, 02:53
have you tired to put you're infantry in squere, i think most people get crashes then they tri it

You are exactly right on this. I had to run the number down to around 100 before I could get the infantry to form square without crashing. I tried a number of changes to the separation distance but could not form square with 120 men. Can anyone help on this? Maybe we need another patch...

Icanus
27th Aug 2005, 03:11
You are exactly right on this. I had to run the number down to around 100 before I could get the infantry to form square without crashing. I tried a number of changes to the separation distance but could not form square with 120 men. Can anyone help on this? Maybe we need another patch...
I'm looking into it, but haven't yet found anything referring to the formations, apart from what seems to be stat modifiers for different formations.

My guess is that the game has a hard limit on the number of "spots" for soldiers to stand in in square (though it's odd that it only happens with squares). Hopefully these are defined somewhere in the file and not in the exe itself, and can be increased.

I'll keep looking for a solution, but until then I guess 100 is the max :(

Nahirean
27th Aug 2005, 03:23
I'm looking into it, but haven't yet found anything referring to the formations, apart from what seems to be stat modifiers for different formations.

My guess is that the game has a hard limit on the number of "spots" for soldiers to stand in in square (though it's odd that it only happens with squares). Hopefully these are defined somewhere in the file and not in the exe itself, and can be increased.

I'll keep looking for a solution, but until then I guess 100 is the max :(

Damn! Is it possible to disable square formations totally?

Icanus
27th Aug 2005, 03:32
Damn! Is it possible to disable square formations totally?

if I can figure out the format of those Disabled Actions variables which were causing problems in campaign mode. I've found some more info relating to them in the souce code from pyro, so I'll be looking into it.

Nastavnik
27th Aug 2005, 09:10
I didi not have time to test it, since I directly tried with 100 men units, and it worked. But has anyone tried 121 for instance, or 144, which stands for 11² and 12²? Maybe in square formation an exact number of spots must be used (like 11 lines and 11 colons - sorry for the spelling...). Just a thought :confused:

Nastavnik
27th Aug 2005, 09:19
ok wat the fu********* i changed the the unit sizes of a couple different units then i saved the files and imported them back to the dt file should i erase the back up and wen i cover them back to dt do i have to have them highlited and does it matter that i have version 1.0

Hi waldi. I've had the exact same problem. For me the cause was that I unpacked the data.pak file (which took forever, it's over 1Go) when what I needed to do was to extract the data1.pak -- which is added by the patch 1.1. In the folders that are extracted you will find another gamemode folder and another combate.dt file. Once I isntalled the new version of the stat editor and remade my changes, it worked fine :) . Good luck!

Nastavnik
27th Aug 2005, 09:48
Another thought: has anyone tried completing the simon bolivar quest after implementig changes in the number of men per unit? I just tried and nothing happenned (my trrops are set to 100 infantry, 50 cavalry and 5 artillary), except for spending a whole lot of money... If someone else could test it... :)

OldBean
27th Aug 2005, 10:54
Thanks to Icanus and Nastavik for looking into this. Right now, the square seems to be the "weakest link". 121 men crashed as well. I use the Quick Battle to test these things. But if we ever have a real shot we still have the long haul of proving that everything works in a campaign.

OB :rolleyes:

OldBean
27th Aug 2005, 11:55
My first thought with a max of around 180 infantry was to triple everything. This would make for 180 infantry, 108 Cavalry, and 9 cannon. If the limit drops to 100 Infantry, a factor of 1.67, we could have 100 Infantry, 60 cavalry, and 5 cannon. If other things were equal, the play balance would stay the same.

I have played with double the ranges on muskets and cannon. I have also tried cutting all movement in half. This makes for a more realistic Napoleonic game, but I am afraid it won't sit well with caffeine addicts. The extra range and slower speed changes the rush to melee tendency quite a bit.

For some strange reason, the fire effectiveness of muskets and cannon appears to be the same at all ranges. I have changed this from 90,90,90 to 60, 30, 15 and it appears to be much more what you would expect.

Any thoughts, guys?

OB

:D

Nastavnik
27th Aug 2005, 14:58
I have played with double the ranges on muskets and cannon. I have also tried cutting all movement in half. This makes for a more realistic Napoleonic game, but I am afraid it won't sit well with caffeine addicts. The extra range and slower speed changes the rush to melee tendency quite a bit.

For some strange reason, the fire effectiveness of muskets and cannon appears to be the same at all ranges. I have changed this from 90,90,90 to 60, 30, 15 and it appears to be much more what you would expect.


Hi OldBean.
I have two questions: when you changed the speed, was there any other lines to be changed as well?

And about the cannons effectiveness, I think you mean these lines in the howitzer file (for ex.):
2728 uPrecDis1: 50 * Accuracy of muskets (%), close range
2732 uPrecDis2: 40 * Accuracy of muskets (%), medium range
2736 uPrecDis3: 30 * Accuracy of muskets (%), long range

If it is a Yes, then have you tested for the cannons? I never tried because I was not certain that this line would apply to them. I didn't change it, and as I just checked, they are different. (but you are right :thumbsup: , my muskets were all the same at all ranges :confused: ). But if you are right, maybe I should make the differences bigger: since I have increased the range of the cannons, AI fire can reach my troops at max range with an incredible accuracy, and I was wondering about making it less effective with increased distance. Maybe this is the way :)

OldBean
27th Aug 2005, 15:43
Hey Nastavnik,
Actually, I was only testing the infantry effectiveness. Finding the right numbers for artillery will take some testing. I am going to start playtesting some ideas now.
One thing that seems true is you can change the level one values without taking the time to change levels 2-5. This can save a lot of tedium till the numbers are right.

OB

Nastavnik
27th Aug 2005, 16:37
Yes, I think I'll do that from now on (test on level 1). I've just had a crash with the square formation :( which seemed to work till now. (at 100 men setting). Actually it was working fine, but as soon as I gave an order to move forward, it crashed the game. I guess moving while making squares is a no-no... Too bad, it was a really nice battle, the enemy ---quite stupidly I might say--- rushing across a frozen lake (thus with the "red boots") while being fired at by my cannons.
One thing I've noticed, is that even with the increased range for the cannons (I have howitzers at 160 and the 12lbs at 180) as soon as one of my cannons really hit something, tha AI charges almost immediatelly, specially if I have more range than they, Which was the case this time. I think I can even trick them into charging by putting one cannon a bit ahead of the the rest of my trroops, firing at them, and then bringing the cannon back to a position behind the lines, while the other cannons fire at the aproching enemy, now within range... (it has worked a few times, but I can't be sure it is systematic)

waldi
27th Aug 2005, 17:04
i cnat get the patch to work it still says 1.0

Hengist_Sharpe
27th Aug 2005, 17:37
i cnat get the patch to work it still says 1.0Well go and start another thread, and let people here have some serious discussion, without interruptions.

Fitch
28th Aug 2005, 04:59
Waldi.....it's applied..for some reason when you unpack the data file it reverts back to telling you it's v1.0....as near as I Can tell it's patched....

Nahirean.....I'm not sure I understand you're first post......The way I understand it, you made all the Infantry Fire stats the same??

Nastavnik
28th Aug 2005, 10:46
Waldi.....it's applied..for some reason when you unpack the data file it reverts back to telling you it's v1.0....as near as I Can tell it's patched....

Nahirean.....I'm not sure I understand you're first post......The way I understand it, you made all the Infantry Fire stats the same??


I'm not so sure. When this happened to me, when I had a battle I could not use the ctrl and +/- to control speed. That's because I had extracted the data.pak and not the data1.pack. As soons as I restored the data.pak, extracted the files from data1.pak, and then made the modification in the right combate.dt file, I have now version 1.1, with my modifications, and I can control the speed in battles. :)

OldBean
28th Aug 2005, 11:17
Guys,
Here are the changes I made:

Infantry 100 men
Cavalry 60 men
Artillery 5 guns These numbers are proportioned 1.67 of original

Musketry ranges are 4000 8000 12000
Rifles 5000 10000 18000
Musket effect 80 40 20 was 90 90 90
Artillery Ranges doubled, effect is same

All movement and formation change speeds halved.

All melee and other stats were left the same. I wanted to maintain the play balance of the units relative to the campaign system.

I am playtesting this with a campaign, which takes an awful lot of time. If any one would like to have a copy of the text files, I could e-mail them to you.

This setup works and I think has a real Napoleonic feel to it. You can see the ponderous nature of the armies. The slower movement and longer fire ranges make a rush to melee strategy much more perilous, but it still is part of the game. Cavalry is still powerful, but it its power is diminished. The main things missing are the morale component and the fact that units fire small arms thru each other, which cannot be fixed by a mod. Otherwise, I think the tactical battles are very satisfying.

Old Bean :)

OldBean
28th Aug 2005, 11:35
Does anyone have an idea how to mod certain other thing like.

Starting stuff...I would like to give countries a lot more Gold, Resources, Food and Population to start.

More starting armies and commanders.

Starting technologies... I would like countries to have a lot of technologies already.

Resources in provinces. I would like more resources there to support larger armies.

Has someone cracked this setup stuff?

OB :confused:

Icanus
28th Aug 2005, 11:50
Does anyone have an idea how to mod certain other thing like.

Starting stuff...I would like to give countries a lot more Gold, Resources, Food and Population to start.

More starting armies and commanders.

Starting technologies... I would like countries to have a lot of technologies already.

Resources in provinces. I would like more resources there to support larger armies.

Has someone cracked this setup stuff?

OB :confused:
All this (and a whole bunch of other stuff relating to the campaign mode, such as the cost of troops/buildings etc) is in DefModeloGestion.mng, which pyro released some info on a few days ago.

I've not yet looked into this file in detail - it looks like it's a fair bit more complicated than the unit stats, but should still be editable eventually.

OldBean
28th Aug 2005, 16:56
That would be great Icanus. Then if we could just do something to fix the Naval battles, like the postage stamp of ocean you have to fight on.. :rolleyes:

OB

OldBean
30th Aug 2005, 11:30
All this (and a whole bunch of other stuff relating to the campaign mode, such as the cost of troops/buildings etc) is in DefModeloGestion.mng, which pyro released some info on a few days ago.

I've not yet looked into this file in detail - it looks like it's a fair bit more complicated than the unit stats, but should still be editable eventually.


Icanus,
I glanced at the C++ and it seems complicated. I will try to spend more some time looking at it.
One thing that might be rather simple would be to double the campaign resources in the provinces. This would mean a lot more armies and much different strategy. This would be the first thing I would like to try. Do you agree that this is a good idea?

OB

Icanus
30th Aug 2005, 11:43
Icanus,
I glanced at the C++ and it seems complicated. I will try to spend more some time looking at it.
One thing that might be rather simple would be to double the campaign resources in the provinces. This would mean a lot more armies and much different strategy. This would be the first thing I would like to try. Do you agree that this is a good idea?

Sounds great. The hard part is finding where in the file that data is (though it should be easier than with the unit stats, since each province's data starts with the province name as a text string).

Something that I found useful in figuring out the dt file was to keep a text file listing adresses within the file and thier functions (adding them as I found more, and copying them over to another text file once I'd tested changing them). from there, writing an export/import program is easy, since it's just a case of knowing where & what data type for each variable.

This file might be a bit more complex, as I don;t think the record lengths are all the same (for example, nations have different numbers of provinces, with data for each one), so there's probably some header information defining the length of each record.

Nastavnik
30th Aug 2005, 11:52
Hello Icanus, Oldbeam

I must say I don't understand anything from what you wrote, but it sounds good and my own limitations in computer litteracy won't stop me from hoping you succeed ;)
The game plays much better now, except for this annoying square formation thing (it demands more disciplin: no moving while in square, stay at your place!).

Please keep exploring (I am incapable of doing that), but I can test your results... :o

OldBean
2nd Sep 2005, 15:26
Hey Guys,
If anyone is interested in my changes,, I will be glad to email you a zip file of the unitdata text files. You would have to know how to apply them. Let me know...

OB :)

ytareh
3rd Sep 2005, 09:29
Id be interested in what changes you made.For all units I changed the ranges and accuracy at all three (close ,med,long)along with some of Godkins Batalla suggestions to tendency to attacck arty and generally enter melees .My email is ytareh@eircom dot net.I think with the small maps there is always going to be a compromise because rifles could fire to nearly 200m so you MUST make Arty longer than that but the whole battlefield maps seem to be about 800m wide!So arty just opens up immediately at enemies arty etc....Whoever has arty left after that can decimate enemies infantry.Movement speed I havent changed because its actually quite realistic at least on a good dry surface.Maybe in mud should be halved as one person did.But then arty is even more decisive

Silent_Scope
3rd Sep 2005, 20:02
has this been released yet? if so wheres the link?

Nahirean
4th Sep 2005, 18:01
has this been released yet? if so wheres the link?

I am quickly coming to the conclusion that this game is impossible to mod to my desire and therefore is not worth the time to try. Square crashes if you have any decent amount of troops.. you cant change key settings like build times, amount of men per captain, etc. It's hopeless.

Silent_Scope
4th Sep 2005, 18:07
so it would ruin the gameplay with increased numbers?

ytareh
4th Sep 2005, 19:36
Well Im sorry to hear some of the modders getting disillusioned.What is the max you have found will form square?(100?)As a non campaign player a lot of your problems dont affect me .But yes there does seem to be a lot of things which arent as simple as they seem/should be ...eg weapon reload time.

Kazahana
5th Sep 2005, 00:54
Hi, if it is possible, can u send the mod file to zephiris1990@hotmail.com?
I dont really care bout the square thingy. All i wanna see is millions and millions of ppl slaughtering each other mindlessly. I wish the militia number can be changed to 200 per battalion, then i can use quick battle and make it 18 battalion of militia vs 18 battalion of militia and sit back and watch the madness... :D
Either way, it would be fun if the numbers were up a bit, the slaughter is good and all, but just isnt the red all over kind...

OldBean
5th Sep 2005, 01:28
Guys, this game has some real potential. I have finally found where the starting resources are defined. I plan on putting some time into the game soon. I think the game would be much better if

A) The initial resources were doubled.
B) The initial starting forces were increased.
C) Perhaps a more advanced starting technology.

I think these things, coupled with the tactical changes, will make the game a much better experience.

Looking to here from you guys. ;)

Old Bean

ST0MPA
5th Sep 2005, 04:16
Hi Bean,
enjoying the DT file, havent had any crashes during campaigns. witnessed some amazing battles too, line infantry men firing point blank on a mob of militia doing the charge, i swear the troops could of punched them in the nose, they were that close when they fired.

Had to increase the speeds of troops and cavalry, not by much tho,

I also had an Idea at making all one star troops hopless and vunerable to better troops, thought also about having one star troops as a huge size, take away the ability to form square (hopefuly change speed to square to 0) and make speed to line slow, as they advance, they become more quicker into square and line, and charge, and better allround, the final 5 star units would be a smaller unit having all the trainees weeded out during their experience gains.

just an idea

OldBean
5th Sep 2005, 14:12
Does anyone else think it is silly that the Major and Minor powers of Europe have not figured out how to make anything but militia troops in 1790? :eek: I would like to have all the knowledge and buildings up to at least the 2nd era at the start of the campaign.

OB

jeff sarge
5th Sep 2005, 15:45
Hey guys I just played the demo (cant afford the game yet) and was reading about this. You need to keep the dragoons in the game if you want to be historically correct. They had a few companys of dragooons. They were to attack other calvery units and weren usally supposed to attack the infantry. If they did attack infantry the usally dismounted and tryed to hold them until infantry could arrive.

My goal is to modify every map to do the following:


Remove the silly "Objectives".
Force Line Warfare.

I want to remove Militia units completely. I have been tossing the idea around of removing all but "Dragoon" style cavalry, but I think people would feel limited. But if I understand History correctly, wasn't that a more accurate representation of the warfare? Lines and Lines of men firing at one another?

I have made significant progress figuring out how to persuade the AI to use ranged attacks and not melee combat through the .dt settings. If someone could help figure out how to do the following I would be in their debt:

Modify production costs and turns per unit. At the current rate it's simply too costly and time consuming to produce an impressive army.

Modify maps to remove objectives.

Completely remove Militia units. <-- I've tried making them weak to ranged attacks but the AI still builds them in droves and turns every battle into a slugfest. If I could figure out the resource area I could make them cost 100,000 gold etc in lieu of removing them.

Nahirean
5th Sep 2005, 17:03
Hey guys I just played the demo (cant afford the game yet) and was reading about this. You need to keep the dragoons in the game if you want to be historically correct. They had a few companys of dragooons. They were to attack other calvery units and weren usally supposed to attack the infantry. If they did attack infantry the usally dismounted and tryed to hold them until infantry could arrive.



That's the problem. This game's hard coded limitations do not allow for anything resembling historical accuracy. They clearly had [edit] behind the wheel. They made an excellent strategy map, and could have beat out Rome Total War if they went for epic battles like the ones they ADVERTISED.

Silent_Scope
5th Sep 2005, 18:40
so the mod is complete but with the current men the units dont form square? try 120 men

Kazahana
5th Sep 2005, 19:14
Someone already tried with 120, it doesnt work. Appearantly the max is 100.

jeff sarge
5th Sep 2005, 20:14
Something else that would be making the game a little more fun, realistic and authentic would be giving the rifles ALOT more range then the muskets. I beleave the brownbess was effective in linebattles at 70 yards maximum with little accuracy while the rifles could shoot 300-400 yards and be very accurate. You could mod the rifles to take a longer amount of time to reload to make it more authentic/realistic. What do you guys think?

That's the problem. This game's hard coded limitations do not allow for anything resembling historical accuracy. They clearly had [edit] behind the wheel. They made an excellent strategy map, and could have beat out Rome Total War if they went for epic battles like the ones they ADVERTISED.

ytareh
5th Sep 2005, 20:35
If you read through some older posts youll see half of this has been done ....Range and accuracy at user defined short, medium and long range distance bands have been modified succesfully.Weapon reload time however seems more complicated.Even though there is a line to type it in ,in seconds, inputting 0-5 seems to give preset times of approx 9-15 seconds.If you rea through all the old posts related to Icanus and godkins work you'll find all this.(my posts are usually shortly after thanking and commenting!)

ytareh
5th Sep 2005, 20:38
PS When you start setting cannon range at even half realistic values they become utterly potent(imbalancing game-although unable to hit nearby targets).I suppose you could reduce their % accuracy but reload time stays at 9-15 sec (much faster than reality)and cant be changed dramatically.

ST0MPA
6th Sep 2005, 07:07
i like the unpredictabilty of sraying cannonballs fired at long range, they should be like giant golf balls that draw or fade to :eek: the target.

GenMoore
8th Sep 2005, 10:43
Might I propose a comprimise.

That you keep to the 100, but with all the other mods in place, might not be realistic, but would make the game better in the field of play.

Most of the other changes sound real good, but I like the square formation.

Thanks guys for all your work.

Just starting to take an interest in the changeing of things, and see you have come a long way allready. :D

Not shure from the writeups weather the mod is out or not!!!, even if the heading say's so :confused: .