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View Full Version : Eidos Insider "There will be no dinosaurs or mummies".



mrgrim747
3rd Aug 2005, 15:57
A few magazines have quoted people involved with the making of the game that it was be more human centred and realistic, saying that gamers can only suspend their disbelief so far.

As a result, they say, TR: Legend will not have the likes of Mummies and Dinosaurs.

While I can understand Eidos wanting to keep things realistic, I'm not sure this is a good idea.

Obviously people started thinking "This just aint Tomb Raider" when Lara started wandering around empty streets in Paris and Rome, but is it a good idea to remove the fabtastical element that got people interested in the first place?

Some of my most memorable moments were

-first seeing the T-Rex
-learning how Natla used to rule Atlantis
-learning Bartoli wanted to and would become a dragon

If it's just human enemies and traps I fear a dull game

dhama
3rd Aug 2005, 22:15
Interesting, I think I'd like it to be more realistic, but I did hate the fact that The title suggest some kind of shuffling around in dark buriel chambers in AOD and there she was in Paris??...... :rolleyes:

As far as mummies are concerned, I think a little imagination pushing is acceptable, but the dinosaurs are a little hard to swallow.. smaller chunks maybe? perhaps a robot dinosaur would work, although why anyone would go to all that trouble creating one, I mean sheesh!! :D

Tell you what, convince Eidos to release a level editor for Legend, and I promise i'll make a level with all those elements. ;)

Psychopompador
3rd Aug 2005, 22:16
SWEET!!! - first post, been signed on, just not in, since Thief DS came out.

I hope there'll be a few animals and maybe a coupla mythical despite being mostly human enemies. One of the funnest parts of TR1 was getting freaked out by the first appearance of the "bacon" looking Atlantean horses.

I want some surprises like that.

Sophia Leigh
4th Aug 2005, 02:11
I didn't mind the dinosaurs in TR1 or the mummies in TR4 but I don't really mind if there aren't any either.

GoranAgar
4th Aug 2005, 09:28
saying that gamers can only suspend their disbelief so far.

Right, that must be the reason why World Of Warcraft, Guild Wars, Half Life 2 and Doom 3 are so very unsuccessfull. :rolleyes:

I do not game to face frelling reality. I have enough of that in real life. What are these people thinking?

And since it hasn't been said for a long time: No, it is not alright for Lara to break into a museum and kill the guards. :mad:

midroth
4th Aug 2005, 10:17
^I agree! Let Lara kill any guards (e.g. of a museum) is not alright. That's not the Lara I like to see. But sometimes against any 'wild things' (snakes, rats, apes, dinos, mumies etc.) is ok/entertaining. I play Lara to leave 'my reality' for some time (some hours of a mini vacation). In Laras reality dinos and other things exist and sometimes I can see/fight them - I like it. Do not remove it, please.

mrgrim747
4th Aug 2005, 10:58
It's a shame really, I remember the best thing about Angel of Darkness (at least I think it was) was that tomb with the creepy thing that flew after you. It had red eyes, that was AOD wasn't it?

The only fantasy horror bit in the game (except for the Sanitarium, that was also good).

Sophia Leigh
4th Aug 2005, 11:04
^I agree! Let Lara kill any guards (e.g. of a museum) is not alright. That's not the Lara I like to see. But sometimes against any 'wild things' (snakes, rats, apes, dinos, mumies etc.) is ok/entertaining. I play Lara to leave 'my reality' for some time (some hours of a mini vacation). In Laras reality dinos and other things exist and sometimes I can see/fight them - I like it. Do not remove it, please.

I play Tomb Raider to leave my reality too. In regards to killing the guards, if you used the electricity thing (I can't remember what it was called) wasn't that supposed to just render them unconscious or was I misinformed?

xbaa
4th Aug 2005, 11:23
I guess the reason for that is that human enemies will more fun ! , think about it ,they will be more chalanging due to there AI , you will be able to take there weapons and you can throw them in the air and shoot them ! , so I really don't see a problem , plus , I don't think the game will be supernatural-creatures-free , remember him (or it)? http://www.captain-alban.com/posters/tr7screens94.jpg

midroth
4th Aug 2005, 12:42
Just for sure: To fight against humans is ok. If it is not a kill style like mentioned (Goran, me). Or the only one. The 'monsters/creatures' are/were the salt in the soup.

@xbaa: The supernatural-creature is this Ch*r after her 500th face lifting?

How ever, so far we know is 'Legend' free of supernatural-creatures (the picture you've posted is from the first design studies). They say it would make it more realistic (the without). If I wanna see the pure reality, I make a step in front of the house where I live. 100% reality. Not to beat. To see reality I don't need a game.

In Hollywood movies the revolver shot 654x, before the hero wins. In reality 6x.
In Lara 1-5 her pistoles was never empty. In reality max. 14 shot. Now you have to reload them in the game. That's anyhow disturbing the gameplay.
I think 'they' should not be too realistic.
Sometimes is less more.

GoranAgar
4th Aug 2005, 12:49
I play Tomb Raider to leave my reality too. In regards to killing the guards, if you used the electricity thing (I can't remember what it was called) wasn't that supposed to just render them unconscious or was I misinformed?
In the British Museum she didn't have those toys.

enoch
4th Aug 2005, 13:07
Right, that must be the reason why World Of Warcraft, Guild Wars, Half Life 2 and Doom 3 are so very unsuccessfull. :rolleyes:

I do not game to face frelling reality. I have enough of that in real life. What are these people thinking?

And since it hasn't been said for a long time: No, it is not alright for Lara to break into a museum and kill the guards. :mad:

To find secret entrances in sewers of Paris is not part of my everyday life, so that does appeal to somehow. Your other point about not killing the guards, is however a good one.

GoranAgar
4th Aug 2005, 13:17
But still too close to real life for my taste.

Besides, in real life I am not even slightly interested to go to Paris (again). ;)

knightgames
4th Aug 2005, 13:26
As much as I love playing TR games, I think if the developers at CD remove 'fantasy' elements I'll pass on the new game. I don't need dinosaurs, and mummies, but I PREFER the fantasy elements of TR more than fighting humans.

The number one reason I play and love TR is the great exploration and puzzle solving. I love wondering what I'll see next. I was never dissappointed in WHAT I saw in any TR game. Most environments were beautiful to look at and explore.

Second reason would be the character of Lara.

After that there are a WHOLE LOT of incidental moments that add so much to the enjoyment of TR. Everyone has their own unique 'moments' that they call favorites.

The ONLY negative in the whole TR series for me? I didn't like fighting humans. For me it removed the fantasy of playing TR. TRI had a few 'fights' but I dont remember humans being shot and killed. By the time TRAoD came out the magority of enemies were human.

I guess I can understand the human intercourse, but TRI was sucessful without shooting and killing people. Natla was a 'demi god' monster creature in human form.

I'm not ADVERSE to shooting people in video games. I just think there's TOO much of it in games today. I like my fun somewhat innocent sometimes.

Removing the fantasy elements, whether they be dinos or mummies or any other fantastical monster, would really REALLY ruin it for me. I realize there may need to be SOME humans to move the story along, but NOT at the expense of the fantasy elements I love.

I WANT that statue we're all familiar with in the screenshots TO COME alive. I want enemies like that. I want the unexpected and highly imaginative.

CD did very well with creature design in Legacy of Kain. I hope they continue Lara's tradition of fantastical and mysterious, rather than more realistic. There's too much reality in reality.

I also realize the game isn't released yet. Nothing is definative. And! I'm sure there WILL be fantasy creatures and enemies.

midroth
4th Aug 2005, 13:40
CD, fantasy elements - that's a very importand point! Not realistic, but...
Thx knightgames.

susan
4th Aug 2005, 14:15
A few magazines have quoted people involved with the making of the game that it was be more human centred and realistic, saying that gamers can only suspend their disbelief so far.
Uh-oh, this sounds like a bad idea, if it's true.

I think a lot people want TR to be "realistic" but only in the sense of making the dinosaurs look like realistic dinosaurs, and Lara to look like a realistic person. This isn't the same as making the game itself like "real-life", ie, setting it in a mundane reality.

That was where Core excelled, their ability to create a fantastical scenerio with enough "realism" that suspension of disbelief was extremely easy. Gamers can immerse themselves in anything if the concept is presented in a credible way.


As much as I love playing TR games, I think if the developers at CD remove 'fantasy' elements I'll pass on the new game. I don't need dinosaurs, and mummies, but I PREFER the fantasy elements of TR more than fighting humans.

The number one reason I play and love TR is the great exploration and puzzle solving. I love wondering what I'll see next. I was never dissappointed in WHAT I saw in any TR game. Most environments were beautiful to look at and explore.I agree knightgames. There's much more to TR games than "Agent" Lara kicking ass, or there always has been till now.


What are these people thinking?That TR games sell mostly because of Lara and so that's the main thing they need to concentrate on?

enoch
4th Aug 2005, 14:50
But still too close to real life for my taste.

Besides, in real life I am not even slightly interested to go to Paris (again). ;)

How about exploring vast west-african landscapes, while avoiding deathtraps and sinister human copetetives but failing to face a t-rex or several mummies?
If we like escapism instead of realism then why not give her a spacebirth instead of a classical English noble background?

Psychopompador
4th Aug 2005, 15:09
with CD supposedly returning to Lara's roots (i.e. TR1) I'm a bit dissapointed we wont see a TRex with the new sytems capabilities. cuz that would have rawked !

but- I trust that a good game will come of it anyway, and I highly doubt there will be NO fantastical/ animal enemies to face. (she's in an ancient tomb in the jungle in the vids we've seen for crying out loud, y'know?)

midroth
4th Aug 2005, 20:51
... I think a lot people want TR to be "realistic" but only in the sense of making the dinosaurs look like realistic dinosaurs, and Lara to look like a realistic person. This isn't the same as making the game itself like "real-life", ie, setting it in a mundane reality. ...How to explain this CD and maybe Toby? I'm afraid it is to late for CD to change the prescription (concept) and 'salt the soup'. Now we can think about what 'more action' could be...

xbaa
4th Aug 2005, 21:10
with CD supposedly returning to Lara's roots (i.e. TR1) I'm a bit dissapointed we wont see a TRex with the new sytems capabilities.

I think with legend they are going for something new , so I don't expect a T-Rex because they will be imitating the first TR , you don't want that do you ? , they did it with TR2&3 and it turned out bad (although I don't deny it , seeing a T-Rex with nex-gen graphics won't be cool , I guess we'll have to settle with the one in king kong :( )

susan
4th Aug 2005, 21:17
Now we can think about what 'more action' could be...That expression suggests to me something like - more ambushes by larger (more) groups of enemies more often with more weapons, so that Lara [we] can do more and more frantic shooting with more weapons more often?

Strictly speaking though, it could mean any kind of action I guess...

midroth
4th Aug 2005, 21:43
@Susan. Short: 'brain dead' action with a high tech bike in a cave (see 1st trailer)...

Sophia Leigh
5th Aug 2005, 00:34
In the British Museum she didn't have those toys.

Sorry Goran, I thought you were referring to the Louvre in Paris in AOD, now I realize you mean TR3. :o

susan
5th Aug 2005, 07:26
@Susan. Short: 'brain dead' action with a high tech bike in a cave (see 1st trailer)...Had a look and I see what you mean. Hmmmm...

I just hope the lonely, lost, wandering about is in there somewhere. And the beautiful, gloriously imagined and coloured environments to do it in.

foxybunny
5th Aug 2005, 10:52
No dinosaurs or mummies???? :mad:

These elements in my opinion "made" TombRaider.

I got so bored in the previous games in the "human style" levels as i call them i think that is why i am not enjoying AOD whatsoever. I've watched both trailers for TR : Legend and it looks really good, however i'm abit concerned that it isn't going to b like the original.... :rolleyes:

lara-addict
6th Aug 2005, 17:09
...as I hated having to fight them anyway, but there has always been some element of the super-natural in TR and I had been expecting some sort of fight with the undead. It isn't required, but I wouldn't have mind mummies.

Mangar The Dark
7th Aug 2005, 13:32
I don't necessarily need dinos in the new game, because I think that would feel too much like an attempt to redo the original game. What made it work so well in the original was the fact that it surprised me like few things ever have in a game. When they tried to redo the dino thing in TR3, it didn't work as well because instead of thinking "AAH!! DINOS!" I thought, "AAAH!!! Creative bankruptcy!!"

However, I hope the enemies aren't mostly comprised of humans. The best parts of TR, for me, are when I'm exploring a place that feels like it hasn't been explored in hundreds (or thousands) of years. I love that lonely feeling of exploring a dark passage, wondering if I'm about to spring a booby trap or if some exotic beast is about to leap from the shadows and rip my throat out. TR1 did a great job of instilling that feeling. TR2 was weakened, IMO, because everywhere Lara went, there seemed to be hordes of humans already there.

So, anyway, I guess I don't mind so much if they get rid of the supernatural stuff, but I'd rather be fighting exotic animals and such, more than fending off angry humans.

Xxx_Lara_xxX
20th Aug 2005, 16:23
I think the game should start out very realistically then progressively become weird and unpredictable.

This means you start the game playing Lara as if she is a real person in real physics with real situations, and then as strange, supernatural things start happening the game suddenly becomes more involving because you already assumed the world is real

TR1 came out about the same time as Jurassic Park, that is why i thought they had the dinosaurs because it was current at the time in pop culture.
Now they should avoid 'gothic' weird- goth is so dead! I would prefer if it was scary real, like where you think things are moving but aren't sure, mummies and bats and things consistent with an Indiana Jones world

Xxx_Lara_xxX
20th Aug 2005, 16:26
I don't necessarily need dinos in the new game, because I think that would feel too much like an attempt to redo the original game. What made it work so well in the original was the fact that it surprised me like few things ever have in a game. When they tried to redo the dino thing in TR3, it didn't work as well because instead of thinking "AAH!! DINOS!" I thought, "AAAH!!! Creative bankruptcy!!"

However, I hope the enemies aren't mostly comprised of humans. The best parts of TR, for me, are when I'm exploring a place that feels like it hasn't been explored in hundreds (or thousands) of years. I love that lonely feeling of exploring a dark passage, wondering if I'm about to spring a booby trap or if some exotic beast is about to leap from the shadows and rip my throat out. TR1 did a great job of instilling that feeling. TR2 was weakened, IMO, because everywhere Lara went, there seemed to be hordes of humans already there.

So, anyway, I guess I don't mind so much if they get rid of the supernatural stuff, but I'd rather be fighting exotic animals and such, more than fending off angry humans.


:) I could not have said it better. :thumbsup: That was my feeling exactly, especially about the sudden, inexplicable introduction of anonymous bad guys in TR2 and onwards