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tplarkin7
27th Jul 2005, 02:01
I just saw a clip of Lara in actual gameplay, and nothing has changed from the original Tomb Raider. She runs, jumps, and hangs in the exact same platforming fashion. The graphics are very dated. She moves at the same slow speed. There are great examples of 3rd person action, the best being Ninja Gaiden. How can I play Tomb Raider after playing Ninja Gaiden?

Ok. So the gameplay is mediocre. The real reason I like Tomb Raider is for Lara Croft. I like the face change very much! I like the body very much! I don't like the breast reduction. Also, Lara's animations need to improve ten-fold. P.N. 03 from Capcom is the best animated digital female I've seen.

So far, it seems that lessons have not been learned from AOD.

Sophia Leigh
27th Jul 2005, 02:04
Is that supposed to be a joke?

tplarkin7
27th Jul 2005, 02:12
No. It's not a joke.

It's amazing that I couldn't find much criticism in this forum. I understand that it will be mostly fans, but it seems that everyone is blind here.

Games must innovate and compete. What have we seen in Legend that is new or at least takes some lessons from the latest great games?

Legend looks like TR1 with PS2 graphics.

The reason I'm writing this is to make Legend better. Everyone needs some healthy criticism at times.

Sophia Leigh
27th Jul 2005, 02:17
The reason I'm writing this is to make Legend better. Everyone needs some healthy criticism at times.

You should be posting in the suggestions thread then click here (http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=50462)

tplarkin7
27th Jul 2005, 02:25
This isn't a suggestion of a feature I want to see in Legend. This is a comment on the status of the project. It is a reaction to the gameplay video clip they just released.

GiaZ
27th Jul 2005, 03:59
This isn't a suggestion of a feature I want to see in Legend. This is a comment on the status of the project. It is a reaction to the gameplay video clip they just released.


Please remember that Legend is a work in progress. What we see now is not necessarily what the finished product will be. Sit back relax and let Crystal do their thing. I don't think we will be disappointed.

Acceber
27th Jul 2005, 07:04
Please remember that Legend is a work in progress. What we see now is not necessarily what the finished product will be.

Exactly.


I just saw a clip of Lara in actual gameplay, and nothing has changed from the original Tomb Raider.

Making comments like this about the game in development is, to me, like saying "eeww, I would never eat raw eggs" but finding cake the most delicious thing in the world. :rolleyes: ;)

GoranAgar
27th Jul 2005, 08:40
I don't like the breast reduction.

Everyone needs some healthy criticism at times.
Yes, everyone does.

enoch
27th Jul 2005, 09:42
If you (tplarkin7) don't like the breast reduction, then play DOA. ;)

As far your comment on this game "looking like TR1", I guess you are right. However, I think this is what the gamers are looking for. I believe that the core (God bless them) of the game is in the adventure, the exploring and overcoming obstacles.

As for the characters, I am of the opinion that she (and the others) are pretty shallow. It is more where she goes and what she does that´s interesting.

SMSL
27th Jul 2005, 12:54
She runs, jumps, and hangs

What exactly were you expecting, for her to do the Macarena?!?...

CatSuit&Ponytail
27th Jul 2005, 13:02
tplarkin7 I know you feel it's very important to criticise.

But please in future limit such comments to this thread. (http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=48560) .

Reading the first post there will inform you as to the reasons.


Thank you,
CatSuit&Ponytail

tplarkin7
27th Jul 2005, 17:35
Please remember that Legend is a work in progress. What we see now is not necessarily what the finished product will be. Sit back relax and let Crystal do their thing. I don't think we will be disappointed.

True. But this is the first time Tomb Raider has changed hands and it seems like Crystal is timid.

tplarkin7
27th Jul 2005, 17:44
Exactly.



Making comments like this about the game in development is, to me, like saying "eeww, I would never eat raw eggs" but finding cake the most delicious thing in the world. :rolleyes: ;)

It's fair to say that it won't be perfect now, while it's in development. But I would like to see something more advanced. They have demonstrated something that we've already seen in previous games.

tplarkin7
27th Jul 2005, 17:53
tplarkin7 I know you feel it's very important to criticise.

But please in future limit such comments to this thread. (http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=48560) .

Reading the first post there will inform you as to the reasons.


Thank you,
CatSuit&Ponytail

The Official TR7 Whining thread is not to contain all negative feedback regarding TR7. Quote from the thread, "I suggest that this be the only ONE thread where whining over delays of information/launch/whatever be allowed..."

That thread is for reducing redundant complaints about delays in development.

tplarkin7
27th Jul 2005, 18:12
What exactly were you expecting, for her to do the Macarena?!?...

Perhaps. But I was thinking more about Ninja Gaiden, Devil May Cry, P.N. 03. These games have taken character animation and control to another level. Lara's latest shooting sequence didn't demonstrate any change. Devil May Cry has advanced dual shooting. Take some lessons from Ninja Gaiden with regards to climbing, jumping, and hanging such as speeding it up. Wall running, climbing & jumping could be added too. Although P.N. 03 was a bad game, the main character has the best animation in the genre. I hope that Lara's animations become as polished.

Lara revolutionized gaming with TR1. I hope Legends can live up to the original.

tplarkin7
27th Jul 2005, 18:21
If you (tplarkin7) don't like the breast reduction, then play DOA. ;)

As far your comment on this game "looking like TR1", I guess you are right. However, I think this is what the gamers are looking for. I believe that the core (God bless them) of the game is in the adventure, the exploring and overcoming obstacles.

As for the characters, I am of the opinion that she (and the others) are pretty shallow. It is more where she goes and what she does that´s interesting.

We all know that the original TR succeeded, in part, to Lara's figure. It was half of the reason it succeeded. If Tomonobu Itagaki decided to make the DOA girls flat-chested, I wouldn't buy it. Itagaki understands that games are entertainment and that the girl's figures are an important part of the entertainment. I hope Crystal Dynamics sees it the same way.

The core of Tomb Raider is third-person action, exploration, and Lara!

GoranAgar
27th Jul 2005, 18:48
We all know that the original TR succeeded, in part, to Lara's figure.
And that is probably the reason why 50% of the members of this forum are female. Like in no other game forum I know.

And try to put all those replies into one next time.

midroth
27th Jul 2005, 21:35
Guess, tplarkin7 want a "Lolo Ferrari" game...

John Carter
27th Jul 2005, 21:39
Well, maybe I'm just easy to please or something, but I am thrilled with the graphic and technical advances seen in what little we know about Legend to this point. Lara moves fluidly and in a lifelike fashion, the environments look great, and we are promised an engaging story.

I am looking at this Ninja Gaiden site and I am seeing passably good game screenshots of standard neo Japanamation fighting stuff, and to the non-connessuer of such things, I am not seeing some sort of quantum leap over Legend. I've played Devil May Cry for about five minutes and lost interest, finding the character unfun to control.

I suppose it is all about what you expect. If you expect Lara to be doing twirling cartoon ninja stellar death kicks, Legend is probably not going to please you. If you expect Lara to be doing cool Lara things like exploring, shooting baddies, solving ancient mysterious puzzles, and moving with near-human acrobatic semi-believability, then this promises to be the best Tomb Raider ever.

Notts Raider
27th Jul 2005, 21:54
Bloody Trolls, just ignore them :cool:

tplarkin7
27th Jul 2005, 21:57
And that is probably the reason why 50% of the members of this forum are female. Like in no other game forum I know.

And try to put all those replies into one next time.

I don't know many females that play video games, but the few that I know are fans of Tomb Raider.

Putting the replies in one neat post isn't user friendly, but I will do it.



Guess, tplarkin7 want a "Lolo Ferrari" game...

Not true. If you made a game with a girl in it, how would you make that girl?



Well, maybe I'm just easy to please or something, but I am thrilled with the graphic and technical advances seen in what little we know about Legend to this point. Lara moves fluidly and in a lifelike fashion, the environments look great, and we are promised an engaging story.

I am looking at this Ninja Gaiden site and I am seeing passably good game screenshots of standard neo Japanamation fighting stuff, and to the non-connessuer of such things, I am not seeing some sort of quantum leap over Legend. I've played Devil May Cry for about five minutes and lost interest, finding the character unfun to control.

I suppose it is all about what you expect. If you expect Lara to be doing twirling cartoon ninja stellar death kicks, Legend is probably not going to please you. If you expect Lara to be doing cool Lara things like exploring, shooting baddies, solving ancient mysterious puzzles, and moving with near-human acrobatic semi-believability, then this promises to be the best Tomb Raider ever.

These are good points. It's true that Lara isn't a ninja and it is ok that she moves at a slower pace than NG. I will be awaiting more clips and info. Until then I will hope for the best.

tplarkin7
27th Jul 2005, 22:00
Bloody Trolls, just ignore them :cool:

This forum isn't just for people to say nice things about TR7. I came here to share my opinion and make TR7 better.

Trolls don't articulate their point. They also never agree with anyone. They just disagree for the sake of being annoying.

John Carter
27th Jul 2005, 22:10
I will be awaiting more clips and info. Until then I will hope for the best.

As will we all. ;) I am somehow confident that the developers of this game are monitoring this forum and are open to new ideas and opinions, although I have no proof that they are, like them telling me so.

midroth
27th Jul 2005, 22:35
How I would make that girl? Anywhere between Lara and Jen (Primal). But not bigger, bigger and BIGGER 'til you are anywhere between 'Miss Piggy' and 'Lolo F.'...

susan
27th Jul 2005, 23:05
This forum isn't just for people to say nice things about TR7. I came here to share my opinion and make TR7 better.

Trolls don't articulate their point. They also never agree with anyone. They just disagree for the sake of being annoying.I must admit I agree heartily with this. I get the impression that some people on this board think it's sole purpose is to be one long TR worship session, and that the game has a sanctity of some kind. LOL!!

Sophia Leigh
27th Jul 2005, 23:51
I must admit I agree heartily with this. I get the impression that some people on this board think it's sole purpose is to be one long TR worship session, and that the game has a sanctity of some kind. LOL!!

I wouldn't quite say that although yes, most of us here are fans. I just think that from what we have seen, most people agree that Legend looks much better than what we have seen in previous games. Also tplarkin7's comments would have been much better divided between the links to the posts that Cat & I gave him/her If tplarkin7 had posted where we directed him/her, people probably would have been more willing to take these comments on board and there would have been more constructive discussion. This thread just appears to have been posted for a "good old fashioned Lara bash". :rolleyes:

By the way tplarkin7, I think that Catsuit&ponytail know's what the official whining thread is for since she started it. ;)

susan
28th Jul 2005, 00:08
I don't know why you're saying all this to me:


I just think that from what we have seen, most people agree that Legend looks much better than what we have seen in previous games. ?


Also tplarkin7's comments would have been much better divided between the links to the posts that Cat & I gave him/her If tplarkin7 had posted where we directed him/her, people probably would have been more willing to take these comments on board and there would have been more constructive discussion.?

Have I said otherwise??


This thread just appears to have been posted for a "good old fashioned Lara bash".This is the only bit relevant to what I've said. I don't think tplarkin7 is a troll, to me they look like they're simply expressing an opinion.

Can I ask you something - is it possible in your opinion for someone to not like some aspect of this game and it NOT be bashing the game? If so, how are they to express it so that it doesn't look to you like a "good old fashioned Lara bash"?

WraithStar
28th Jul 2005, 00:08
We all know that the original TR succeeded, in part, to Lara's figure. It was half of the reason it succeeded.

Lara's ridiculously exaggerated figure in the first game actually convinced me *not* to buy Tomb Raider when it first came out. I know I'm not the only girl who reacted the same way. Fortunately, I found a three-pack of TR1, 2, and 3 for $5 one day and I decided to give it a try regardless of my distaste for the obvious pandering to male teens. Once I actually started playing the games, I didn't even notice Lara because of the immersive environments. Looking at the Legend screenshots and trailers, I think that Lara is actually pretty now. I'm still mainly paying attention to the environments, like that beautiful waterfall, but I really don't see why someone who's looking at Lara would be turned off by her new appearance. As for the trailer itself, there are a few bugs but the overall quality looks great. I'm sure that by the time the game ships, Crystal will have everything ironed out :)

Sophia Leigh
28th Jul 2005, 00:31
I don't know why you're saying all this to me:


Can I ask you something - is it possible in your opinion for someone to not like some aspect of this game and it NOT be bashing the game? If so, how are they to express it so that it doesn't look to you like a "good old fashioned Lara bash"?

Actually its all relevant whether or not you chose to see that is up to you. Not quite sure why you seem to be taking these comments personally either. My comments while initially in response to what you said (hence the quote) are for all since this is a pulic forum, if I was saying it all to you I would have used the PM option. ;)

...and yeah, its possible for someone to not like aspects of a game without bashing it but its about how you say it, not to mention that there are the Official Whining thread and the Suggestions thread specifically for that.

susan
28th Jul 2005, 00:52
Because you quote me and then have a full block of text beneath, not separated, it reads as if you are talking directly to me in relation to what I have said. But fair enough if you say otherwise.


Actually its all relevant whether or not you chose to see that is up to you.Only in a ...er, OK... kind of way. They're on topic but not have no bearing on what I've said. Actually. ;)

susan
28th Jul 2005, 00:56
...and yeah, its possible for someone to not like aspects of a game without bashing it but its about how you say it, not to mention that there are the Official Whining thread and the Suggestions thread specifically for that.That's why I asked - If so, how are they to express it so that it doesn't look to you like a "good old fashioned Lara bash"? - because to me trplarkin7 says it in a reasonable manner. How do you suggest they say it other than how they have so that you wouldn't see it as Lara bashing?

SMSL
28th Jul 2005, 00:57
I personally like her new moves, they look very realistic and I very much prefer realistic moves than spectacular supernatural ones in a TR game. I've never played NG nor DMC3, but one game I've played and has glorious animation is Prince of Persia. I love its animation and it's far more fantasistic than Lara's, but I actually like Lara not to be as fantasistic. I like her to look like a real woman doing cool stuff, I think it leads people into caring more for her in the game than with a character that can pull out the most daring, almost flying, stunts, because she looks more fragile, more delicate, less of a super-woman. That's what I think.

But overall, I have to say one thing about tplarkin7, he can't be called a troll nor be bashed at, since he has been stating his opinion with education, clarity and logic. He doesn't like what he has seen so far, he doesn't share most of our opinions, it isn't a crime and he actually has motives to so do it. We can't always share the same opinions on TR, I ask you people to take it easy on this, kappa? :)

Sophia Leigh
28th Jul 2005, 02:07
You are right SMSL, tplarkin7 shouldn't be called a troll. :)

But since this forum is full of fans these comments would probably have been better received if posted where previously mentioned. If tplarkin7 is indeed trying to be constructive then he should have posted in the thread that I first directed him to, since the makers of Legend are apparently looking there. ;)

tplarkin7
28th Jul 2005, 03:32
You are right SMSL, tplarkin7 shouldn't be called a troll. :)

But since this forum is full of fans these comments would probably have been better received if posted where previously mentioned. If tplarkin7 is indeed trying to be constructive then he should have posted in the thread that I first directed him to, since the makers of Legend are apparently looking there. ;)

I made a real effort to post my negative opinion in the right place. I didn't want to be a troll, and I know that this forum is for fans of Lara. I looked in all of the previous threads that you suggested before I made my post. I also looked through all of the topics, and none of them discussed the latest video clip.

I am a huge fan of Lara for my own reasons. Especially because Lara was the first female character in the media that was very feminine. Movies and TV rarely recognize female characters as women. They treat them as if they are men with a high pitched voice.


I must admit I agree heartily with this. I get the impression that some people on this board think it's sole purpose is to be one long TR worship session, and that the game has a sanctity of some kind. LOL!!

Thanks for the support! I can stop sucking my thumb and get up from my comfy corner. :thumbsup:

LaraAngelOfDarkness
28th Jul 2005, 05:27
tplarkin7, which video did you watch? This is a question I must ask because if its the one which is about three minutes and has the animation bugs in it and seems kind of choppy, then it does not reflect the stage of development that Crystal Dynamics is at as of now (they have fixed all of that). Did you only watch one game clip? What about the trailers and many other gameplay videos?

Anyway, you also compare Lara's animations to that of Vanessa Z. Schneider's. They are both from very different gameplay types. P.N. 03 is basically a shooter which the main character dances and snaps her fingers to a beat (I'm thinking in her head), which causes energy to shoot out from her palms because of the suit she is wearing. I also assume, by what you have said in your posts, that you really like the way Capcom animated her body when she attacks (especially her butt, which seems to have mind of its own by the way she moves it lol). Lara's animations are good and I like what I see so far and they aren't even done with the game yet so they may still change. I personally like the new way she fires her guns while flipping and running, her idle animations, and her new reloading animation is very cool.

Now while Vanessa's animations are good, the level design is crap. The same boring futuristic cut and paste rooms annoyed me. Tomb Raider has usually been good with the design of the levels and Legend so far is no exception. The Ghana jungle temple is surrounded in mist due to the waterfall. Bugs and birds can be seen flying around the area and the sound effects sound great so far.

You also compare TR to Devil May Cry 3 and Ninja Gaiden. TR is about the environments you explore not the moves that you perform on enemies to kill them. These three games are put in the action/adventure slot by Gamespot's standards; TR goes more on the adventure aspect while DMC and NG more so on the action side. Lara can't double jump in the air or run on walls (and that’s why some people here like her, not to say that’s why I like her).

The graphics are dated? If these are poor graphics then the many game sites, fans, and myself are blind.

http://www.tombraiderchronicles.com/images/tombraiderlegend_screenshots_09/screen5.jpg

http://www.tombraiderchronicles.com/images/tombraiderlegend_screenshots_09/screen2.jpg

http://www.tombraiderchronicles.com/images/tombraiderlegend_screenshots_09/screen3.jpg

Many people have commented on how great this game looks especially game sites that had written the series off a LONG time ago. Of course Ninja Gaiden looks better than TR, its on freaking X-box. Most of the pictures released, including the videos, were of the Ps2 version (which looks damn amazing). You can tell that it is from that system as when Lara has to shoot the barrels the Playstation triangle symbol button pops up. I am positive though that the X-box and PC versions of the game will look extremely good.

Lara's change in her character model was a VERY wise decision on Crystal D's part. Toby Gard said that Core changed the character that he imagined Lara was, which is why she is now modeled like his original sketches were. Lara's old figure brought alot of criticism against the game, I’m sorry but a waist that small and breasts that large would surely have snapped her in two. Lara is still curvy; its just she has been given more realistic proportions.


"and nothing has changed from the original Tomb Raider". That is a pretty untrue statement right there. So she runs, jumps, and hangs from ledges? In DMC3 you basically hack and slash your way through each level (granted you can change the style you use, but you still only kill a few monsters, see a cutscene, face a boss, and then see another cutscene). There have been a number of changes to the overall gameplay style of this game.

1. Lara can use grenades (two types I believe) now. The inventory is also changed as now you can only hold 1 other weapon besides the pistols and grenades.

2. A new physics system has been put in the game (the havok engine I believe). So now the environments are destructible, which means there are other cool ways to kill enemies.

3. Puzzles are more involved and have more than one solution to each of them.

4. Finally, smarter A.I. (I hope they keep their word).

5. Introduction of new equipment such as the magnetic grappler, headset, shoulder mounted flashlight.

6. New physics system for water and fire (To give them a real look).

7. Amazing locations: Malaysia, Tokyo, Ghana (Africa), Russia, Peru, and more.

8. New moves: Lara can now disarm enemies and kickflip them up into the air. I am positive there is more as the legend footage released doesn't even have everything in yet.

9. Return of vehicles.

10. A new dynamic lighting system.

11. A new streaming engine basically rids the game of load times (like in the Fatal Frame games, Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas, and Haunting Ground).

12. The environments affect Lara’s character model. (If she's wet her hair and clothes hold the water until she is dry. Also her clothes and skin can become dirty when traveling through mud and dirt).

And so much more (mainly because I forgot some stuff).

I'm not saying that I don't have any concern the game might be bad, mind you, its just that I'm giving this new team the benefit of the doubt that this could be a great game. I was severely disappointed with AOD, but Legend has resparked my interest in TR.

Sophia Leigh
28th Jul 2005, 07:14
LaraAngelofDarkness, that is really well said. :) :thumbsup:

enoch
28th Jul 2005, 09:07
We all know that the original TR succeeded, in part, to Lara's figure. It was half of the reason it succeeded. If Tomonobu Itagaki decided to make the DOA girls flat-chested, I wouldn't buy it. Itagaki understands that games are entertainment and that the girl's figures are an important part of the entertainment. I hope Crystal Dynamics sees it the same way.

The core of Tomb Raider is third-person action, exploration, and Lara!


I disagree. The action is adventures, not about guntoating. That is just a sidekick. There is no doubt that Lara has shown very little edge and human touch, probably due to the focus on gameplay rather than character development and depth in storyline (apart from AOD). And let's face it; the reduction of her assets doesn't change anything about her (vague) personality. And it is not just sheer entertainment, there is an art interest here as well.
When you talk about Ninja Gaiden and Devil May Cry (I haven't played them but are aware of their themes or premises), do you then mean that TR should be more like them, overexagerated in physical performance? Isn't it enough that she is just exagerated?

CatSuit&Ponytail
28th Jul 2005, 10:39
The Official TR7 Whining thread is not to contain all negative feedback regarding TR7. Quote from the thread, "I suggest that this be the only ONE thread where whining over delays of information/launch/whatever be allowed..."

That thread is for reducing redundant complaints about delays in development.
You are right, it is, among other things....

http://forums.eidosgames.com/images/icons/icon2.gif "I suggest that this be the only ONE thread where whining over delays of information/launch/whatever be allowed..."

Some of us don't want to allow the poison that dripped from some keyboards to infect this forum again. If some other people want to spout vitriol, there are plenty of other forums where bashing is encouraged. Except those aren't generally thought of as pleasant places to be like this one is. I doubt you'd want barfing, cussing, drunken, or just plain nasty guests at your party, would you? If they can't be civil to the Host, Hostess and their children, whyever would you want to invite them back?

Alti
28th Jul 2005, 23:59
I have seen some great accomplishment in Legend. The graphics are sharper, a lot more realistic settings. Yes she still jumps, swan dives and does her handstands, but that's what we the (fans) want. We enjoyed pulling the switches, and jumping from ledge to ledge. Eidos has asked Lara's fans what they wanted. And we told them. If that doesn't sound up to par, then maybe you should stick to Ninja games or whatever else you play......

tplarkin7
29th Jul 2005, 05:36
LaraAngelOfDarkness,

I just download the trailers from the official website, and it looks good! The motorcycle scene was cool. The clip I previously saw was of actual gameplay. I did notice the flaws in the early gameplay clip. I have only seen these three videos.

I mention those other games because they each have traits that the Tomb Raider series could use. You have an acute observation of Vanessa's butt. That's the kind of reaction Lara should invoke. The new Lara's body is better than V's, but she needs a certain je ne sais quois.

TR7 is a PS2 game from the beginning. They will port it to PC and Xbox, but it will still be a PS2 game at heart. There is an Xbox 360 version coming out and I will be anxious to see how that turns out.

I like the new Lara and especially her new face. She is still very curvy.

You are right. To say that "nothing" has changed is untrue. That was a reaction to the gameplay clip. That clip looked the same as TR1 with better graphics. One lesson I have learned from personal experience is to avoid showing unfinished work. People always treat your progress as a finished product and criticize it as such. This is what I have done to the video clip.

The loading time feature is always a welcome one. Perhaps they did play Ninja Gaiden as that has no load times! One very cool feature I noticed is that Lara's weapon inventory will be realisticly displayed on Lara's belt.

I am sure this game won't be another AOD. I never meant to suggest that!

Advice: Ninja Gaiden Black is coming out in September. It will have more levels than the original NG and it will have an easier difficulty level. It is also only 29.99 new! If you get a chance, try it. It will tide you over until TR7.


When you talk about Ninja Gaiden and Devil May Cry (I haven't played them but are aware of their themes or premises), do you then mean that TR should be more like them, overexagerated in physical performance? Isn't it enough that she is just exagerated?

In the gameplay clip that I mentioned, it seemed that TR7 was sticking to it's platforming roots. I personally have tired of "platforming" after TR1. For example, Prince of Persia: Sands of Time was an average game in my mind. It was strictly a platformer. Level design was backwards in that the poles, ledges, ropes, etc., were placed in the level first and they dressed it up with fake architecture. For some odd reason, every single game reviewer thought it was the best level design in history. Ninja Gaiden's levels feel open and the architecture came before the poles, ropes, and ledges. NG also has a free camera and Ryu is the most responsive character ever. DMC is the master of 3rd person dual wielding. NG & DMC are over-exagerrated, but they should be imitated. These games are in a similar genre to TR. As much as I like an over-exagerrated Lara, I still expect a good world to be built around her exagerrations.


"I suggest that this be the only ONE thread where whining over delays of information/launch/whatever be allowed..."

I made a real effort to place my post in the right spot. The statement above isn't clear enough. It actually states "delays of". If you wanted all negative comments in that thread, it should say "If you have anything negative to say about Legends, post it here and no where else. Or else!"

I don't know how bad it got before, but it is silly to make people post that way. Sticky threads are good to avoid redunancy, but shouldn't be used to filter opinions. However, let's say 10,000 of me came to this forum with the same complaint about the video clip. You could make an "Official Legends is Old School" sticky. Then all 10,000 of me would argue with myselves.

enoch
29th Jul 2005, 09:01
I guess it is all about what kind of character/game people want; escapism-like figures who kicks ass or new realm-like who go places the rest of us doesn't - but who are able to act as protagonist in a visual narrative. TR has got a bit of both and I have learned to accept the first part but I don't believe that developers or publishers will ever fall completely to the "dark side".

CatSuit&Ponytail
29th Jul 2005, 10:07
I made a real effort to place my post in the right spot. The statement above isn't clear enough. It actually states "delays of". If you wanted all negative comments in that thread, it should say "If you have anything negative to say about Legends, post it here and no where else. Or else!"

I don't know how bad it got before, but it is silly to make people post that way. Sticky threads are good to avoid redunancy, but shouldn't be used to filter opinions. However, let's say 10,000 of me came to this forum with the same complaint about the video clip. You could make an "Official Legends is Old School" sticky. Then all 10,000 of me would argue with myselves.
Ha, maybe I have to make another thread about what one imagines they don't like about the game they haven't played yet? ;) :D It's a shame that there is a reason for the other thread in the first place. As with everything, the best intentions are behind it.

I like that you say you thought about where to post. And I'm glad that newer content is looking better to you.

WraithStar
29th Jul 2005, 17:31
LaraAngelOfDarkness,

I just download the trailers from the official website, and it looks good! The motorcycle scene was cool. The clip I previously saw was of actual gameplay. I did notice the flaws in the early gameplay clip. I have only seen these three videos.

...

The loading time feature is always a welcome one. Perhaps they did play Ninja Gaiden as that has no load times! One very cool feature I noticed is that Lara's weapon inventory will be realisticly displayed on Lara's belt.

...

In the gameplay clip that I mentioned, it seemed that TR7 was sticking to it's platforming roots. I personally have tired of "platforming" after TR1. For example, Prince of Persia: Sands of Time was an average game in my mind. It was strictly a platformer. Level design was backwards in that the poles, ledges, ropes, etc., were placed in the level first and they dressed it up with fake architecture. For some odd reason, every single game reviewer thought it was the best level design in history. Ninja Gaiden's levels feel open and the architecture came before the poles, ropes, and ledges. NG also has a free camera and Ryu is the most responsive character ever. DMC is the master of 3rd person dual wielding. NG & DMC are over-exagerrated, but they should be imitated. These games are in a similar genre to TR. As much as I like an over-exagerrated Lara, I still expect a good world to be built around her exagerrations.

I'm glad you like the new trailers of TR7:) Have you seen the 6 1/2 minute E3 trailer of gameplay? That is the only gameplay trailer I know of (I tend to miss a lot, though :p) and I think it looks very good so it's probably not the one you saw.

The no-load-times is actually a carry-over from the Legacy of Kain series. The Soul Reaver engines and the Defiance engine were built to automatically generate the landscape for a certain distance beyond the field-of-view of the player in all directions. As the character moves, the engine keeps up so that no matter where the character goes, the scenery is already generated so there are no load times. (The only reason Defiance had load screens was because with the switching-back-and-forth between characters, the engine could not pre-render Raziel's level in front of Kain or vice-versa.)

I personally love the Prince of Persia games but I concede that the levels are incredibly contrived. In fact, that's part of the fun of Prince of Persia:) I don't think you have to worry about that in Legend, though. From the sounds of it, each objective has multiple ways to reach it. That way, instead of thinking, "How convenient that the pole would be right where I need it" you would be thinking, "Ooh, I can use that pole to swing, or I can knock down that pillar to make some steps, etc." and it feels more realistic:) I just hope that Legend will have a save-anywhere, load-anywhere system on the PC because save points really aggravate me.

Laraman
29th Jul 2005, 17:54
I can see why you're saying it looks like TR1 in PS2 graphics, CrystalD have repeatedly said they want to take it to what "everyone" wants: The tombs like TR1. But how many people still want what we wanted in the mid-90s?

But, to say it's bad graphics is untrue, many magazines have reported that TRL is taking the PS2 to it's graphical limitations. Altho' some games like Gran Turismo 4 may look superior, it's just coated in a lot of 'shiny stuff' to give that off.

Solange
29th Jul 2005, 21:37
It's amazing that I couldn't find much criticism in this forum. I understand that it will be mostly fans, but it seems that everyone is blind here.

Legend looks like TR1 with PS2 graphics.

The reason I'm writing this is to make Legend better. Everyone needs some healthy criticism at times.

I think there has been a great deal of TR criticism on this forum in the past. Very few people were happy with AOD, and they did express their feelings here. Endlessly I might add... ;)

I think many with me are happy that Legend so far looks a great deal better than AOD, and we all have our hopes up that it will be a good game. You are entitled to your opinion that you don't think it looks so good. I do think it looks good though, and I'm very giddy about the game! :) And if it looks like TR 1 with PS2 graphics, I would be very happy, I loved that game! :D

phenom666
29th Jul 2005, 22:27
"Tomb Raider 1 with PS2 graphics" is probably the best compliment TRL can ever get... :thumbsup:

David 070
30th Jul 2005, 21:22
one thing that ive always loved about tr is the adventure!

Lara is always is danger ahhaah & this is fun!!

sometimes the puzzles were frustrating to me & took sometimes days to figure out. but thats what makes it challenging & fun!

please increase the danger hahah :)

Sophia Leigh
31st Jul 2005, 06:53
That's why I asked - If so, how are they to express it so that it doesn't look to you like a "good old fashioned Lara bash"? - because to me trplarkin7 says it in a reasonable manner. How do you suggest they say it other than how they have so that you wouldn't see it as Lara bashing?

I completely believe that everyone is entitled to their own opinion and shouldn't be judged if they have legitimate reasons, however trplarkin7's opening sentence to this thread was "I just saw a clip of Lara in actual gameplay, and nothing has changed from the original Tomb Raider". The part that I have underlined is completely untrue (which trplarkin7 has admitted to) and to me that is "Lara bashing". That sentence is what got me off side to start with. ;)

I have nothing personal against trplarkin7 and if he ends up hating Legend then that doesn't really bother me either way. :D

foxybunny
8th Aug 2005, 11:03
"Tomb Raider 1 with PS2 graphics" is probably the best compliment TRL can ever get... :thumbsup:

Absolutely. :thumbsup: