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kingomega1
7th Jul 2012, 16:33
I would like to ask everyone this question. Who are the chosen seven? seven keyblade wielder that is. I double checked and I counted 3 keyblade wielders which are Sora, Riku, and Kairi. So who are the remaining four to battle against the true organization XIII? It's up to you to decide who are the remaining four.

member_10628951
7th Jul 2012, 17:07
The chosen seven? What Kingdom Hearts touched on that point? If it's a spoiler for 3D than post spoiler so that way people don't accidentally get spoiled.


That being said I dont think Kiari is one of the Seven because she is one of the Seven princesses of light. And I think in I and II it alluded to Sora being the "warrior of light" that would protect "the princess of light"(Kiari).


Now we know that Sora and Riku are obviously two of the seven. It wouldn't be too much of a stretch to have Mickey as one of the seven. And if the opening for Kingdom Hearts 3D (below) has anything to do with it I think Aqua, Terra, Ventus and Roxas will make up the rest of the seven Keyblade Wielders. Count every Keyblade Wielder in the intro from 3:00 to the end (with MX obviously being the exception) and wala! You got your Seven Keyblade Wielders





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member_10150241
7th Jul 2012, 19:10
I would like to ask everyone this question. Who are the chosen seven? seven keyblade wielder that is. I double checked and I counted 3 keyblade wielders which are Sora, Riku, and Kairi. So who are the remaining four to battle against the true organization XIII? It's up to you to decide who are the remaining four.

spoiler the seven is most likely going to be sora riku kairi aqua ventus micky and axel who is also know as lea's might be the chosen seven keyblade wielder

Azure
8th Jul 2012, 04:53
I don't think Axel maybe Terra . They may find the way how to bring him back without his Original Body

DQ9
22nd Aug 2012, 20:49
According to the ending, I believe there is no "chosen seven". It's just seven lights, they never saidthere were only seven, just that 7 were needed to recreate the x-blade. Also, it didn't say they had to be keyblade wielders. For example, they originally planned to use the 7 princesses of heart as the lights, and only one of them were actually able to use the keyblade.


Therefore, rather than sevenchosen ones, there must be plent of options however only 7 are truly required. There are quite a few options if you look at it that way; sora, riku, Kari, Rosas, axel, xion, terra, Ventus, aqua, Mickey, theprincesses of heart, and maybe even Donald or goofy.


The oLoy way to know is to wait for KH3, I guess...

crazykats
22nd Aug 2012, 23:43
They said it. While king mickey and yen sid were talking mickey said that there was riku, sora, mickey, ventus, terra, and aqua but didnt know who the seventh was. Axel gained the power to wield the keyblade however yen sid still brought in kairi to learn to wield hers. so therefore i believe that the seventh chosen wielder must be kairi. especially if you ccount the pairing. sora/ventus riku/terra kairi/aqua and the remainder being the king himself.





the only exception is if they cant get terra then they will use lea.

icekiller158
27th Aug 2012, 16:13
According to the ending, I believe there is no "chosen seven". It's just seven lights, they never saidthere were only seven, just that 7 were needed to recreate the x-blade. Also, it didn't say they had to be keyblade wielders. For example, they originally planned to use the 7 princesses of heart as the lights, and only one of them were actually able to use the keyblade.


Therefore, rather than sevenchosen ones, there must be plent of options however only 7 are truly required. There are quite a few options if you look at it that way; sora, riku, Kari, Rosas, axel, xion, terra, Ventus, aqua, Mickey, theprincesses of heart, and maybe even Donald or goofy.


The oLoy way to know is to wait for KH3, I guess...








Roxas and Xion don't exist anymore, Xion isn't considered a light as she is just a replica.


Xehanort is waging a war, in order to prevent that, they need to fight back and foil Xehanort's plan.


If they can't fight, how are they going to stop Xehanort?

zimkhan10
30th Aug 2012, 08:34
actually the seven keyblade wielders are sora, riku, mickey, kairi, ventus(roxas), terra, and aqua. if you see the secret ending of kingdom hearts 3D dream drop distance they figured out that kairi can wield a keyblade. she got the keyblade when she touched aquas in kingdom hearts birth by sleep.

member_10323743
30th Aug 2012, 14:50
actually the seven keyblade wielders are sora, riku, mickey, kairi, ventus(roxas), terra, and aqua. if you see the secret ending of kingdom hearts 3D dream drop distance they figured out that kairi can wield a keyblade. she got the keyblade when she touched aquas in kingdom hearts birth by sleep.





Ya they're pretty clear on the Wielders being Mickey and the two sets of friends. I'm excited to see how that will unfold for Kingdom Hearts 3... Can you say "switchable party"? ;)

icekiller158
30th Aug 2012, 17:32
actually the seven keyblade wielders are sora, riku, mickey, kairi, ventus(roxas), terra, and aqua. if you see the secret ending of kingdom hearts 3D dream drop distance they figured out that kairi can wield a keyblade. she got the keyblade when she touched aquas in kingdom hearts birth by sleep.






Ventus isn't Roxas.

zimkhan10
30th Aug 2012, 21:30
my mistake roxas is sora's nobody not ventus but he took ventus's apearance. when sora stabbed himself with his keyblade ventus's heart was realeased and thats why roxas took ventus's apearance so in a way roxas is kinda part of ventus.

zimkhan10
30th Aug 2012, 21:37
here's the link to explain it all http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20111003150609AAyfsSx

member_10323743
30th Aug 2012, 21:58
my mistake roxas is sora's nobody not ventus but he took ventus's apearance. when sora stabbed himself with his keyblade ventus's heart was realeased and thats why roxas took ventus's apearance so in a way roxas is kinda part of ventus.





To be a little more precise, Ventus is part of Roxas.

icekiller158
1st Sep 2012, 00:34
my mistake roxas is sora's nobody not ventus but he took ventus's apearance. when sora stabbed himself with his keyblade ventus's heart was realeased and thats why roxas took ventus's apearance so in a way roxas is kinda part of ventus.





To be a little more precise, Ventus is part of Roxas.






No, Roxas is Sora's nobody. Roxas looked like Ventus because Ventus' heart was in Sora when the latter stabbed himself to release Kairi's heart.

Ryutim
3rd Sep 2012, 13:01
*Spoilers*


Yeah, except that Ventus' heart either wasn't released, or couldn't go back to his body for some reason, whatever the case is, he stayed with Sora and protected him when he fell into darkness in KH:3D. As for who the seven keyblade wielders are, I agree that Terra shouldn't be counted out, especially considering the secret movie from BBS, but until they can get him back, the keyblade wielders are Sora, Riku, Kairi, Mickey, Lee, and Ventus and Aqua once they're able to team up with them (Aqua is still in the realm of darkness, and Ven is still sleeping in the castle oblivion, at least, I think he's still asleep, at the end of KH:3D there was a scene where the camera zoomed in on his sleeping form, and I think I saw his eyes move slightly, even though they were closed, but I can't be sure, and it certainly didn't show him opening his eyes and getting up, so it could really go either way, but Sora and/or Riku will probably have to go find him and wake him up, after all, the whole point of going through the mark of mastery exam by opening up the sleeping keyholes was to give them the power to wake people [and the sleeping worlds of course] from the kind of deep sleep that they can't wake up from on their own.).

picamaispi29
3rd Sep 2012, 13:34
Wether Terra is light or not all depends on wether or not he can get his body back in time for the final battle. If you watch the ending scene (try to find an English version, I played the English version of the game and I know the translations aren't quite correct and the specific words used imply a lot in this scene) you'll see a part where Mickey is counting the number of lights that they have and basically says that they are, in his own words, "Me and Sora and Riku and my three missing friends" (Aqua, Terra, and Ventus) but he stops before saying the name of the seventh one. MX responds by saying (after a line or two about the 13 darknesses) "But Sora and another on your list" (Terra) "belong to me now" Sora was rescued later on in the same scene so then MX only had one light, Terra. It's likely that Terra will be rescued after the final battle, when MX and all of his different forms are defeated for good (maybe with Terra doing something important from inside so he can redeem himself some) but if that is the case someone will have to fill in for him as a light. I think Lea (Axel) is the most likely person because he wouldn't get a keyblade just for nothing. Usually if a person gets a keyblade they have something important to do or the reason they have the keyblade is an important plot point. The seventh person is likely to be Kairi (according to Mickey's count, she may or may not actually be one). Just think about it. Mickey already knew who it was (so it couldn't be Lea because Mickey at this time didn't know that he was capable of wielding a keyblade and Mickey saw Kairi wielding one in KH2 when he was watching from the balcony with Ansem the Wise), the only two reasons why Nomura had Mickey not say who it was are to avoid spoilers and to make us wonder about it and if it was Kairi it could be the avoiding spoilers reason, and Kairi needs developement, which to get she has to be part of the plot. What better way to make her a part of the plot then to have her be one of the lights, which the plot will be partly based around? Of course, Mickey could have been also refering to Master Yen Sid (though he isn't very likely to be an actual light as he already has an important role as an extremely powerful mentor figure and there are lots of other people who need important roles). There is a consideration I don't think anyone has brought up yet though; Nomura simply hadn't figured out who to include. Also, you all know how Nomura wants us to use our imaginations. He could want us to imagine who went in those two spots. It also gets neatly around people being offended because someone wasn't included as a possibility.


Okay, as for the real lights, not just Mickey's opinions, Riku and Sora are definates, and probably (95%) Mickey but the remaining 4 could be any of the loads of keyblade wielders we currently have. First, a list of the remaining possibilities: Terra, Aqua, Ven, Kairi, Lea, Roxas, Xion, Master Yen Sid. Terra I already discussed above and he is a possibility but, sadly, an unlikely one. Aqua has to be rescued from realm of darkness, but Mickey and Yen Sid at least know she is there, if not her exact location and if a war is coming they will probably want to go look for her to get another Keyblade Master on their side so she is a likely possibility. Ven is also a likely possibility, as Aqua will want to go rescue him as soon as she is able to and it won't be that hard since she knows how to and where he is. Kairi is a possibility for reasons stated above but she is also a Princess of Heart and untrained, so I think for her it could go either way. Lea got discussed above too and I think its likely that he is one. If he isn't he will still have an important part to play. Like I said before, Nomura doesn't give out keyblades for nothing. I know Roxas and Xion don't really exist right now, but they do wield keyblades and could be rescued from non-existance so they are still possibilities. Unlikely ones, but still ones. Master Yen Sid is also an unlikely one, and my above paragraph has the reasons. Keep in mind that this is only my opinion, but I thought about it a lot and based this off of the facts that are known so far. I think the seven lights will be Sora, Riku, Mickey, Aqua, Ven, Lea, and Kairi. If Terra gets rescued or rescues himself he could take the place of either Kairi or Lea. A final possibility is that if Terranort (Xehanort+Terra) remembers how to use his keyblade (by regaining his memories or some other way) and more of Terra's personality comes through or something, making him good then he could be a light. This is another unlikely possibility but it would make a great plot twist and Nomura tends to have unlikely but interesting or awesome plot twists. Sorry for the length of this.

Ryutim
4th Sep 2012, 20:14
No problem. You had a lot of ideas, so you posted them, there's nothing bad about that. I also tend to agree with you, Sora, Riku, Kairi, Mickey, Aqua, Ven, and Lee, seem to be the most likely people to be the keyblade wielders of light, and personally, I'd love to see Kairi as the next main character, training to get stronger, and eventually saving everyone else from some horrible fate, that's just the type of story twist that I'd love to see. What do you think?

picamaispi29
5th Sep 2012, 10:02
Yeah, that would be cool. Though my theory is that unlike with other series, there won't really be just one person to save them all if someting terrible happens. KH is all about teamwork and friendship, so it that happens they might have to save themselves by combining their power. I really wonder what kind of bad thing will happen though (will because there is bound to be at least one bad thing that happens). Riku has finally conquered his shame over submitting to the darkness and although he it will always fight him he has it under control so, unless Nomura wants repetitiveness and Riku's character to regress, Riku having trouble with the darkness won't be one of the main problems (it might still be a part of it but there will most likely be bigger problems if it does appear as a problem). Sora has had a whole game's worth of personal struggle so while he will probably have more in the next game (one of main problems maybe?) he will have to have less than in 3D or his story will turn out too much like Riku's (though not exactly cause Sora, being Sora and having a different personality, would make diffferent choices than Riku). There are always multiple problems besides the ones the evil guys cause though, ones to do with character growth and personal struggle, but I can't really predict them this time because I don't really see any areas where Sora and Riku could use character growth or any problems that they are struggling with. Maybe the character growth will happpen with the other characters? It's easy to see that Kairi could use some and will most like get some, yay. Learning to use the keyblade will give her more strength but how will her personality grow when she does? And have you got any ideas on what lessons the other character (Lea, Aqua, Terra, Ven, ect.) will learn or problems they will face? It would be interesting to hear your thoughts on this.

Ryutim
5th Sep 2012, 18:39
*Possible Spoilers*


Well, the first thing that comes to mind is the fact that Lea used to work for orginization XIII, so he might have some issues about that, possibly similar to how Riku felt over succumbing to darkness, but I don't think he'll be quite like that, Lea doesn't seem the type, but he still might have some issues, and that brings up another point, I might be wrong, but I think it was a little too easy for the former organization XIII members to go back to being their former selves, sure, there was that whole explosion with the fake kingdom hearts, but still, it seems a little too easy, and whenever something is too easy, there's usually a catch. As for problems the other characters might face, well, apart from Aqua getting out of the realm of darkness, and getting to Ven to wake him up, there is the fact that the ownership of Terra's heart is (or at least, was when we last saw it) still being fought over by Xehanort and Terra (with whatever part of master Eraqus was left after Xehanort killed him). I'm still not entirely sure what happened to Roxas, Xion, and Namine, I mean, yeah, they disapeared into Sora and Kairi, but then what? Are they just gone? Are they living inside their hearts or something? What? If they're able to come back out and help with the fight, then will Namine have a keyblade? After all, she is a part of Kairi, and since Kairi has a keyblade, there's really nothing to stop Namine from using one as well, right? Judging from the way the story has gone so far, there's probably gonna be something totally unexpected that changes everything (like how Sora split into two people, how BBS explained that keyblades don't just randomly come to those who have strong hearts, how Xehanort has been controlling events from across time, and how we've been taken into two entirely different realities, one of data, and one of dreams, apart from the one in which everything else has taken place), so I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

DerekMaverick
5th Sep 2012, 19:06
Spoilers?


Well the King says at the end of 3D that the seven wielders are him, Sora, Riku and "His 3 friends." pluse one other. Those 3 friends ARE Terra, Ventus, and lovely Aqua. So there are 6 right there. You can only argue if Lea or Kairi or some new punk is going to be the final wielder.

picamaispi29
6th Sep 2012, 10:50
Spoilers


Yeah I agree, Lea doesn't seem like the type have issues about things in the past. Lea seems to be most vulnerable where his friends are concerned so Saix (or Isa again now?) siding with the enemy might give him some internal conflict. I think that he will still side with the good guys, but trying to save his friend might cause him to act in ways he wouldn't otherwise. Also, he still wants to save Roxas and Xion (although he doesn't remember Xion right now). I never even thought about the Organization getting their hearts back as being too easy, I guess because it was what would count as difficult in the real world (they did have to wait 10 years and do all sorts of work) but in KH things are always extra difficult x2 so I suppose you are right. It would make a great plot twist and one that not many people would see coming if there was a price for getting back their hearts of it was part of Xehanort's plan all along. In KH3 it would be cool to have Terra make more of an appearance, maybe in scenes that show him still fighting MX or whichever one of them he is inside after all of the deaths, time travel, merging, ect. I think somewhere in the games it said that Xion, Roxas, and Namine all ceased to exist once they merged with Sora and Kairi but the Ansem the Wise's data was supposed to show a way to get them back so they have a 98.5% chance of coming back, yay. I hope they manage to get rescued and fight in the final battle. Yeah, Namine should be able to use a keyblade in theory, but she just seems so fragile. She has proven that she can stand up to people when she needs to but she isn't a fighter. She might have a role where stays in Master Yen Sid's tower and uses her power over memory for something. Plot twist are the lifeblood of KH so whatever happens its going to be unexpected, mind boggling, and epic.

picamaispi29
6th Sep 2012, 10:52
Spoilers?


Well the King says at the end of 3D that the seven wielders are him, Sora, Riku and "His 3 friends." pluse one other. Those 3 friends ARE Terra, Ventus, and lovely Aqua. So there are 6 right there. You can only argue if Lea or Kairi or some new punk is going to be the final wielder.






Take time to read my really long post, #16, and you'll see why people can argue with a lot more things than that.

DerekMaverick
6th Sep 2012, 17:56
Just read post #16. I just don't think kairi is as pivotal as you all were saying she will be. I don't think she will be all that skilled and she already is a princess of heart. I'm just going to stick with Lea as my 7th but please elaborate I love new theories. ^_^

iambasho777
6th Sep 2012, 18:18
Spoilers?
Well the King says at the end of 3D that the seven wielders are him, Sora, Riku and "His 3 friends." pluse one other. Those 3 friends ARE Terra, Ventus, and lovely Aqua. So there are 6 right there. You can only argue if Lea or Kairi or some new punk is going to be the final wielder.

Not quite. Roxas is a possibility since he ended up growing a heart and earning a keyblade. However, since Xion didn't grow a heart strong enough to wield a keyblade she isn't a possibility. The secret ending makes it fairly clear that Kairi will be one of the seven since she'll be targeted either way (as she is both a Princess of Heart and the most important thing to Sora).


This brings the "official" tally to Sora, Riku, Kairi, and Mickey. Aqua and Ven are highly likely, while Terra is highly improbable. I think that Lea is most likely to be Terra's replacement, but... well... as for how that'll play out I think he'll end up going kamikaze right before Roxas gets rescued and Roxas has to watch him die, then get his keyblade and heart somehow and have dual keyblades again and be the final light. It'll be sad when we rescue Roxas and Ven from Sora since Sora will only have one keyblade.





EDIT: Also, to Andrea, Yen Sid literally gave his Keyblade to Mickey (this was confirmed in either a BBS or DDD Nomura interview). He cannot wield a Keyblade unless he gains another of his own (and I think Mickey will need his Star Seeker to be a light, since the Kingdom Key of Darkness is kinda... well... not exactly light), so I don't really think he's a possibility. It was confirmed in a Days interview that Xion never actually had the capability to wield her own keyblade, she just kinda shared Roxas' (Roxas was wielding Ven's keyblade throughout most of Days, and only gained his own when he grew his own heart (Day 358, Oblivion was Ven's and Oathkeeper was Roxas' IIRC)). I could have a couple details off since I read all of the Nomura interviews at once, so some of it got a little mixed up in my head, but I am 90% sure everything I said was correct.

DerekMaverick
6th Sep 2012, 18:53
I always thought Roxas was wielding Sora's keyblade not Ventus's. And I just don't think they will take the time to bring Roxas back just so they can have another wielder. My only reluctance with Lea is how he JUST learned how to use one so it's kinda weird for him to be a light.

picamaispi29
6th Sep 2012, 20:52
Roxas didn't grow a heart, he had Ven's from the beginning. I thought that Xion had a heart too because she was a Replica and not a nobody. Riku Replica was confirmed to have a heart and I remember reading somthing about Xion having a heart or something but I could be wrong and I can't find the interview. If anyone knows where it is or can prove that my memory is wrong, feel free to correct me. Also, it was confirmed that Xion shared Roxas's power, not his keyblade. Xion's keyblade was a fake one made from data. We don't really know if she is able to wield an actual keyblade (besides Roxas's when he lent it to her). All this means if she did get rescued and was still able to wield keyblade she would need a different one. Its kind of a moot pont though if she (and Roxas) aren't resuced until after the final battle, which I think is likely. Lea already did a kamikaze attack and "died" in KH2. Do you really want the exact same thing to happen again? He could be the final light but chances of it happening through Lea dying are slim. I don't mean any offense when I say that, sorry if I accidently made it sound that way. Hmm, I didn't see the interview where it said that, but I'll take your word on it. I didn't really consider Master Yen Sid as a big possibility anyways because he is retired. I just thought since he was one, no matter how small off one, I might as well put him in. Now I know something new though! Thanks.





Derek Maverick, you are right, an interview with Nomura confirmed that Roxas wielded Sora's keyblade and they sometimes somehow used it both at the same time. oo? That's pretty close to his wording and besides this statement Nomura never really explained further. Guess how it was possible is just one of the unexplained mysteries. When Roxas duelwielded he used both Ven and Sora's keyblades (the ability was unlocked by his desire to remember Xion).

iambasho777
6th Sep 2012, 23:37
I thought Nomura gave an intentionally vague answer when asked whose keyblade Roxas was using. Since he didn't have Sora's heart and Sora was still using his own keyblade Roxas can't, by lore Nomura has set up, be using Sora's Kingdom Key. I'll have to reread the interviews though to double check everything.

I can confirm that Repliku, Xion, and Roxas had no hearts of their own upon creation but actually grew hearts of their own due to exposure to emotion because that was indirectly mentioned in DDD (it was either in the Grid or PP, and then again towards the end). Replikas were created with fake hearts not unlike the shell of a heart Nobodies have, as was stated by Vexen in the secret reports in Days, and DDD (and the accompanying interviews) confirmed that anything can grow a heart when exposed to enough emotion, though it is a slow process.

I believe the Yen Sid thing was in the BBS Ultimania interview, but I can't remember for sure. This weekend I'm going to reread all of them from KHI to DDD, so I'll be able to say for sure then. Also, in the KHI forum here (I made the thread before the creation of the KH general series forum) I made a topic with a link to almost every Nomura interview in their most accurate translations on the KH Info Block if you feel like reading through them. The topic might be more than 2 months old by now, though, so it may take a bit to find.

I know the Lea thing is almost exactly what happened in KHII, and there are two reasons why I would like it to happen again. First, when Sora gives back Ven's, Roxas's, and Xion's hearts he won't be able to dual wield anymore since he'll only have one heart, and you can only have one keyblade out at a time per heart or something like that and I feel like we still need a dual-wielder for extra gameplay variety. Second, I personally like it when events show a symmetry of sorts so long as they don't go overboard with it.

picamaispi29
7th Sep 2012, 11:19
That statement was only a general one for all the people in the organization and although Sora used Roxas as an example for people that could feel but weren't supposed to Braig and Xemnas didn't name anyone specific and were just talking about organization members. A clue is when Xemnas is talking about in plural about "we" and "us" and says "our expiraments creating heartless". Only the actual, original Organization members did that. After Xenahort finishes his speech Braig also talks about the Organization members by name. It has been repeatedly confirmed that Roxas had Ven's heart and that that is why he is able to feel emotions (you'll also notice that he was able to do from the very beginning of his time with the Organization) and nothing has been siad to contradict that. Nomura also states specifically (I think in the BBS Ultimania- 20 Mysteries of the Series interview) that Roxas duelwielded Sora and Ven's keyblades and unlocked the ability through his will to remember Xion. I did also think in that Nomura was being specifically vague when he made that one statement about Sora and Roxas being able to wield Sora's keyblade at the same time and the most likely possibility is that Roxas wielded Ven's at first and then gained Sora's when he duelwielded. At this time Sora was asleep and not using his keyblade so it would be available for Roxas to use. The ambigous statement was in a Days interview so Nomura probably didn't want to reveal anything until BBS came out. You could be right about the Replicas though. I have read every single Nomura interview and just to make sure I didn't forget anything I went back over the BBS interviews yesterday but I can't find the part where it says about Yen Sid giving Mickey his keyblade. That doesn't necessarily mean that you are wrong though. I actually found InfoBlock on my own (just last week), but thanks for telling me. I love the story summaries on that site too, they have all of the important information in a small amount of text. If I ever introduce someone to KH the story summaries would be a good way for them to get caught up with the series. Thank you, whoever works on that site. I get what you mean about Lea, but it would be really sad to see him die again. I think the best and most logical way to keep duelwielding is for Sora to keep it due to his connections to other people's hearts. His connections to other people's hearts already allowed Roxas to stay in existance after Sora got saved from being a heartless by Kairi (this is said in KH 3D) so why shouldn't it allow him to still duelwield? If Sora can keep his ability to duelwield than Roxas should be able to too, due to being Sora's nobody. Roxas passed the ability to duelwield to Sora once, so in theory things should work the other way as well. We would have two people able to duelwield then and nobody would have to die. :) I would like to see some symmetry too though. It feels to me like a small reward for playing (or watching) the other games. Some of the lines will be repeated at least, if KH3 follows the tradition of other KH games, but more than that we will have to wait and see.

Ryutim
7th Sep 2012, 12:28
You should also remember that, in KH2, sora had to link (for lack of a better term) with either Donald, Goofy, or both, in order to dual wield, so it's possible that their connection to him strengthened his heart enough to allow him to dual wield, even though neither Donald nor Goofy are able to use keyblades, and even though it's likely that the extra keyblade that he used was Ven's (or Roxas', assuming he grew a heart of his own, and was therefore able to have his own keyblade), it's still possible that people will be able to link with each other in order to gain power, possibly enough to dual wield even without using another keyblade wielders weapon. Another thing we should remember is that master Eraqus gave Aqua his keyblade, so technically, she should already be able to dual wield, and the same might also go for Kairi, assuming that Namine is also able to use a keyblade, so unless Namine decides to seperate from Kairi, she should be able to use both of their keyblades at once, and if we really want people to dual wield, we can always have people go to the keyblade graveyard, after all, there are countless keyblades there, just stuck into the ground, and come to think of it, Aqua, Terra, and Ventus have all taken keyblades from there already, so it's not much of a stretch to think that people can pass the keyblades around, unless it really does require having another person's heart helping you to wield two keyblades at once, which still could be possible if we're able to link with our other party members. This topic is actually to vast to get a full grip on the possibilities, and there just aren't enough hard facts to narrow things down, so I think I'll leave it at that for now.

iambasho777
7th Sep 2012, 18:20
You should also remember that, in KH2, sora had to link (for lack of a better term) with either Donald, Goofy, or both, in order to dual wield, so it's possible that their connection to him strengthened his heart enough to allow him to dual wield, even though neither Donald nor Goofy are able to use keyblades, and even though it's likely that the extra keyblade that he used was Ven's (or Roxas', assuming he grew a heart of his own, and was therefore able to have his own keyblade), it's still possible that people will be able to link with each other in order to gain power, possibly enough to dual wield even without using another keyblade wielders weapon.



This was actually confirmed to just be a gameplay device to attempt to not make Forms too powerful, which is why in cutscenes when you're in a form D&G still show up.



Another thing we should remember is that master Eraqus gave Aqua his keyblade, so technically, she should already be able to dual wield, and the same might also go for Kairi, assuming that Namine is also able to use a keyblade, so unless Namine decides to seperate from Kairi, she should be able to use both of their keyblades at once, and if we really want people to dual wield, we can always have people go to the keyblade graveyard, after all, there are countless keyblades there, just stuck into the ground, and come to think of it, Aqua, Terra, and Ventus have all taken keyblades from there already, so it's not much of a stretch to think that people can pass the keyblades around, unless it really does require having another person's heart helping you to wield two keyblades at once, which still could be possible if we're able to link with our other party members. This topic is actually to vast to get a full grip on the possibilities, and there just aren't enough hard facts to narrow things down, so I think I'll leave it at that for now.



You must have a heart for every keyblade you have out, this was stated when it was revealed that Mickey has two different keyblades (Yen Sid's Star Seeker and the Realm of Darkness' Kingdom Key D) to his name and Nomura was asked why Mickey wasn't dual-wielding. Also, we've been given no indication that Namine could wield a keyblade. I'm not saying she can't, just that we don't know either way. If she could, then so long as Namine's heart is still in Kairi then she can indeed dual-wield.

vitornavarrete
8th Sep 2012, 16:59
I was going to write tons of text, but people pretty much said everything about the 7 lights. And I like how people here aren't close minded. In Kingdom Hearts 1 we saw Kairi creating a whole new body for Sora while Roxas still existed. After DDD we know that anything is able to create a heart. That being said the list sums up to the people Basho, Andrea and Ryutim talked about. You are just forgeting Master Eraqus. From BBS secret ending we kinda know that his heart is together with Terra's inside Terranort or something along those lines. So there's a chance that he will return. And lets not forget that the clash will be between 7 lights and 13 darkness, but that doesn't mean we can have another keyblade wielders wandering around.





Other than dual wielding I don't see any problem for anyone to have a Keyblade. Sure, we must assume that you need a heart for doing so, but once you have one and is worthy you can conjure you keyblade or so I guess. Like Lea, at the end of DDD, conjured one. And Riku, in KH2, conjured the keyblade for Kairi. She was able to use it, since she touched Aqua's keyblade in BbS. Heck even Data-Sora conjured one after Maleficent destroyed the Data-Keyblade. Anyways, the thing is anyone other than Goofy and Donald is a candidate.





One thing that comes to my mind is how the Organization XIII was defeated. Five members in CoM and 7 on KHII. That leads me to think that is unlikely a big battle involving 20 people in KHIII. There's a lot of metaphors in Kingdom Hearts so as long as they "clash" (this can mean anything) at sometime during the game they will be fulfilling their role, or so I guess. So I think it's possible that we have more than seven keyblades wielders as playble characters (controlled or party members) and that we will only discover the seven "chosen ones" towards the end of the game.





This way I think that, more important than discussing the seven lights, is more important to know who are the 13 vessels and how they will reunite again. You see, Braig's hysterical reaction upon Lea's arrival, instead of his sarcastic style ("As if"), and Young MX explanation about time travel make it seems that reuniting them again will be very difficult.





Anyways, we already now the form of six vessels: Young Xehanort, Ansem SOD, Xemnas, Braig, Isa and Old Xehanort. From MX speech it seems like he is counting on Terranort (he tells Mickey that he lost one of his missing friends to him) and at Prankster Paradise we saw a young Riku in black coat (probabily when he was possessed by Ansem SOD) so I think we got more two here. Also Dilan and Even didn't make an appearance in DDD so I go with a maybe, because they don't have Yellow eyes but Blue and Green, respectively. I think you are aware of the theory about the eyes color: Blue = Light; Yellow = Darkness; and, Green = In between. But since Sora never had yellow eyes to begin with, the two of them make candidates, once they were number three and four. That leaves two seats. I doubt Nomura would use Aeleous and Ienzo again. Anyone can guess another one? Maybe a mega-plot twist and he will use Pete and Maleficent (lol)





Oh, one last thing: Since there is timetravel now Terra's return is possible along with Terranort existing. The same way that Riku saw himself with Pinnochio. My theory is that somewhere in the future someone (Riku, Aqua, Ventus, Mickey or Sora) will free Terra's body from Xehanort control, forcing him to return to his old body. This would explaing when Y MX said that the Old MX was the one from the most future, even with Xemnas and Ansem SOD being there. But, before that, Terranort would remember being Xehanort and would join as another piece of darkness. Sure there is a hole in this theory, because Old MX said that Terra was on his hands and, if Old MX is from the future how wouldn't he know this? So many doubts. And KH III won't appear until 2015 and I'm being very optimistic here.

member_10590028
8th Sep 2012, 20:14
Anyways, we already now the form of six vessels: Young Xehanort, Ansem SOD, Xemnas, Braig, Isa and Old Xehanort. From MX speech it seems like he is counting on Terranort (he tells Mickey that he lost one of his missing friends to him) and at Prankster Paradise we saw a young Riku in black coat (probabily when he was possessed by Ansem SOD) so I think we got more two here. Also Dilan and Even didn't make an appearance in DDD so I go with a maybe, because they don't have Yellow eyes but Blue and Green, respectively. I think you are aware of the theory about the eyes color: Blue = Light; Yellow = Darkness; and, Green = In between. But since Sora never had yellow eyes to begin with, the two of them make candidates, once they were number three and four. That leaves two seats. I doubt Nomura would use Aeleous and Ienzo again. Anyone can guess another one? Maybe a mega-plot twist and he will use Pete and Maleficent (lol)






Well in DDD it is explained why Dilan and Even aren't seen and the reason for that is because they returned to the Radiant Garden along with Ienzo, Aeleus, and Lea and they were in an unstable state when they returned to their bodies so you can't really count on them going to the darkness although their Nobodies were ruthless enough if you think about it. But as for the 13 darknesses I totally agree with the first 6 but there are 6 more unnamed and he needs to find one more b/c Sora was saved so he's considered a light.

vitornavarrete
8th Sep 2012, 21:10
Anyways, we already now the form of six vessels: Young Xehanort, Ansem SOD, Xemnas, Braig, Isa and Old Xehanort. From MX speech it seems like he is counting on Terranort (he tells Mickey that he lost one of his missing friends to him) and at Prankster Paradise we saw a young Riku in black coat (probabily when he was possessed by Ansem SOD) so I think we got more two here. Also Dilan and Even didn't make an appearance in DDD so I go with a maybe, because they don't have Yellow eyes but Blue and Green, respectively. I think you are aware of the theory about the eyes color: Blue = Light; Yellow = Darkness; and, Green = In between. But since Sora never had yellow eyes to begin with, the two of them make candidates, once they were number three and four. That leaves two seats. I doubt Nomura would use Aeleous and Ienzo again. Anyone can guess another one? Maybe a mega-plot twist and he will use Pete and Maleficent (lol)






Well in DDD it is explained why Dilan and Even aren't seen and the reason for that is because they returned to the Radiant Garden along with Ienzo, Aeleus, and Lea and they were in an unstable state when they returned to their bodies so you can't really count on them going to the darkness although their Nobodies were ruthless enough if you think about it. But as for the 13 darknesses I totally agree with the first 6 but there are 6 more unnamed and he needs to find one more b/c Sora was saved so he's considered a light.









Yep, I read the journal entry. But I think that almost everyone agrees that, pardom me, that's a hell of a *****ty excuse. Come on! No one have ever, except from Terranort, and that's because of two hearts fighting over one body, had any kind of stability problem. Isa and Braig, if they really were nobodies once (I saw a theory that Braig never lost his heart, but I don't belive it), were fast enough to get out of there before everyone else was able to wake up. Sora recieved Roxas, woke up, and left to a new journey as nothing had ever happened. Same as Roxas absorving Xion. That all being said it's possible that both Dilan and Even were pretending not to be ok, so that they could trick Lea and do some sort of mission on Radiant Garden. But you never know, they may really be unstable. Nomura is so unpredictable. That's part of Kingdom Hearts fun, I guess.

Ryutim
8th Sep 2012, 21:14
Yeah, I love that about Kingdom Hearts, the story is so vast and complex that you can talk about it for hours without getting bored, which I've done several dozen times. Anyway, while I'm not really sure who the other six Xehanorts will be (although if Xehanort infused a bit of himself into Venitas, and assuming that he could bring him back via timetravel, then that's one option.), but one possibility for the 13th "dark vessal" might be Terra's heart, which was being fought for (or more like argued for) by Terra and Xehanort, with Master Eraqus somehow helping Terra to resist the darkness, and although I'm not sure if Terra's heart is still in Terranort, or what, but since hearts can somehow take form on their own (or with a little help, like how Kairi helped Sora turn back after he became a shadow), it's possible that Xehanort will win and use Terra's heart to become the 13th vessal, but that doesn't mean that Terra and Master Eraqus couldn't come back if he was defeated. It's a bit convoluted, but there's one theory.

iambasho777
8th Sep 2012, 22:33
Vitor, the real reason we didn't see the return of Dilan and Even is voice actor trouble. If I remember correctly, Even's Japanese VA recently died and Dilan's English VA is in some legal trouble.

vitornavarrete
9th Sep 2012, 00:18
Vitor, the real reason we didn't see the return of Dilan and Even is voice actor trouble. If I remember correctly, Even's Japanese VA recently died and Dilan's English VA is in some legal trouble.






Now that's sad :( Not because of my theory, screw that, but becasue Even/Vexen is one of the best characters for me. We know that Xehanort and Braig are kinda crazy, but they are the evil kinda crazy. But Vexen is the crazy crazy type. A crazy scientist as one should be. I really hope they can find replacements so that we will see him again. For the NA part of Voice Acting, DiZ/Ansem was already replaced. It's strange since Christopher Lee did it for KH II and Days and Corey Burton did for Re:CoM, BbS and DDD. Since Re:CoM was released in between KHII and Days release I wonder why they used Lee again, as much as I love his VA I really hope that they settled with Burton who also does an excelent job because changing makes Ansem the Wise sounds odd for a while. Anyways, Japan is one of the best countries when it comes to VA and I really hope that such problems won't happen to KH III.





P.S.: What was that Quinton Flynn perfomance for Lea this time around. Astonishing. Not that I didn't already love his voice and Axel actions from previous game, but every time Lea made an appearance in DDD there was an grin all over my face and I got all hyped for his actions/line. At the end he saved the day and Sora's butt again. I really hope you can play with him on KH III, not only as support/multiplayer, but as an actual character. As someone already suggested using him, Kairi or Ventus would be a nice way to start with a weak character instead of dropping Sora to level one again.

Ryutim
9th Sep 2012, 12:09
Yeah, that was my comment, and I totally think that Lee should be a main (controllable) character in the next game. Maybe they'll have Lee, Kairi, and Ventus each have their own stories, one leading into the other, and each of them playable (sorta like how BBS did it, but with Kairi and Lee starting before Ven wakes up, and possibly helping to wake him up, and then starting out as Ven in his own story once they wake him up), because of course, we can't start out as Ven without missing the part of the story where we find Aqua and have her wake him up, but we don't want to start out with a level one Ventus when we're halfway through the game, so seperating out their stories might help to weave things together.

picamaispi29
10th Sep 2012, 14:39
I agree too. Playing as Lea would be awesome and playing as Kairi could be cool depending on what fighting style she gets. (It would be hard to make playing as Kairi different from playing as Sora though.) I haven't ever played as Ven because I don't have BBS but I heard that he was really fast and that made him fun to play as. It might be hard for who ever works on the game to come up with different styles and commands for each of them though. Even so, apparently Nomura likes to give his dev team almost impossible tasks (you know, to get the best game possible, but he also apparently still treats them well because they think highly of him) so it might happen. It would have the added benefit of giving us more cool commands then we have ever had in a game before. The character who I would like to play as again is Riku. I know we already got to play as him in KH 3D but I loved all of his darkness commands, especially the teleporting ones and that one where you stopped time and warped around the enemy doing multiple hits. The seperate stories idea is a good one. They would have to be tied together somehow, like with the drop gauge but something better. The drop gauge turned out ok, in my opinion, after I gained ways to refill it and slow it down but I really don't want to have it in a game again. Hopefully someone can come up with something that isn't as much of a nuisance. It would be nice to be able to play all of the characters at some point but considering the number of them I suppose that that is impossible. Perhaps a mini game or something where you could do that? Or perhaps they could do something like in Days and have something unlocked after you beat the game where you could repeat sections of the game playing as a different character (just using this as an example, it would be vastly different because Days is set up differently (seperated into missions and stuff) than most KH games).


As for the story, (btw, this is partially based on if we get to play as Kairi, Ven, and Lea like Ryutim was talking about) perhaps in the beginning everyone is gathered in Yen Sid's tower to discuss how to best stop the thirteen darknesses. Yen Sid says ithat they need as much help as they can get and is about to send Sora and Riku off to rescue Aqua when word arrives that the (5 at this point because MX hasn't replaced Sora or gottten the rest of them yet) darknesses have started causing trouble in multiple worlds. Sora is required to find Aqua because he can pinpoint her location due to his connection with other people's hearts and Riku is going due to his immunity to the dark realm and the darkness in it and to help Sora if MX tries to claim him as a darkness again so Master Yen Sid has Kairi, Mickey, Lea, Donald, Goofy, and maybe the former Organization members (they might be willing to help and we all know how forgiving Sora is) go to stop the darknesses or at least find out what they are up to. (Lea could also go to the Dark Realm to protect Sora and Riku could go protect the worlds) After whatever happens with the darknesses (the darknesses escape after gloating or good people get beat up) and Sora and Riku come back with Aqua Ven gets woken up and everyone has another discussion on what to do. I don't really have any guesses as to the middle of the story but everyone parts ways again (though they might be in pairs and Donald and Goofy are probably going to want to go with Sora) to go do different important things and comes back together at the end of the story at the keyblade graveyard for the final battle. Umm, I don't know. Anyone got any better ideas about the story? Ugh, all of my posts are so lengthy.

vitornavarrete
10th Sep 2012, 16:42
Andrea, I like the way you're thinking and kinda agree with it. If we look back to the games were you play with more than one character:


CoM - You must finish the game with Sora to get the chance to play with Riku.


KH II - You start with Roxas, then changes to Sora for the rest of the game.


BbS - You can start with any character, Terra, Ventus and Aqua, but as you have different saves, you can switch whenever you want to.


DDD - Drop Gauge forces you to swicth. Even if you go using Drop Me Not every five minutes, at some point you will have to switch characters so the story can continue.





This way, if we get to play with multiple characters, I think that in the start Yen Sid will assing missions to each one and, as you finish one mission you auto-change to the next character. So, maybe we will start training with Kairi, then doing some random mission with Lea in Radiant Garden/Castle Oblivion, then switch to Sora. I think that Nomura will stick to the formula Sora, Donal, Goofy + Main Character of the Disney world, for Sora's part, though. And for team Aqua's Rescue maybe he will include Mickey, since he already went to the RoD to get the Kingdom Key D. As, in DDD, when Mickey says "Follow the heart and you will find a way. That's something Master Aqua told me once." I think there's a message there. The thing is, she never said that in BbS, so it's possible that Mickey and Aqua met each other on the RoD (I can't remember if Nomura confirmed that in any interview). Maybe we will even see this meeting if BbS2 gets released some day.





One consideration about Ventus. Xemnas was searching for him in CO, sending Axel to do so (Days). We always thought that he was kinda crazy and had some of Terra's memory. But after 3D, we know that Xemnas wanted empty husks. And that's exactly what Ventus is. So maybe that's why the organization is trying to find Ven. Theoretically only Aqua can find the Room of Awakening, but, you know, MX can travel through time. I doubt nothing. Maybe if they can bring Vanitas back he will be able to track Ventus, since Vanitas is attracted to him. Ventus would fit for another 13th vessel failed tentative.





For last, Kairi. The good thing about she joining the Keyblade Order (SW feelings :P) is that she would be much closer to Sora, so, maybe there's a chance that some real relationship will happen. In KH I they were just kids with a crush, but in KHII we can see that Sora really have some strongs feelings for her. All that getting emotional when Disney characters get togheter. Nomura always says that he listen to fans, at least the japanese ones, like CoM being on GBA, that's something they asked. The same for playing with Riku again, in DDD. And it's very likely that japanese fans want to see that happening. It wouldn't be anything shocking because, you know, Disney. But I can see that happening in KHIII, with greater odds if it starts one or more years after DDD. I think that Nomura would like doing something in those lines. I get some vibe like that from Versus character, Noctis and Stella, too. But, since they are older and darker I get the feeling of sexual tension. Am I alone in this?

picamaispi29
10th Sep 2012, 17:56
An auto-change after a mission would be a neat way to switch characters. You wouldn't be able to spend excessive amounts of time leveling one character and not playing as any of the other ones (which is the reason Nomura included the drop system) and it wouldn't feel like an annoyance like the drop system. Starting with Kairi training would be a good way to ease into the controls (the tutorial stuff) and yeah, what you say about Sora and the formula is probably true.


I thought about adding that Mickey could go rescue Aqua (he is more than capable of taking care of himself, Xehanort isn't out to get him specifically, he would want to rescue his friend, and it would be a way to limit his screen time to what Disney allows, although they are letting Nomura use him more and more so Mickey could have lots of screen time in this one) but I was a bit tired of typing. :b Aqua actually did say that line in BBS. It was in the final episode, where she and Mickey are watching a sleeping Ven in Master Yen Sid's tower and Aqua is talking about going to find Terra. I know the question was asked in an interview but I think that Nomura gave a non-answer (can't remember for sure though).


About Ven, that is sure an interesting thought. I never thought of that. He certainly is evil enough to do that. If it was true it would be sad though, because it would mean that there is less of Terra in Terra-nort and the versions after (or that Terra isn't doing as good of a job fighting what ever version of Xemnas) than everyone thought. I did think that Xemnas didn't have very much of Terra's personality, but did have his memories, but his suppposedly wanting to save Ven gave me hope. YOU HAVE ERASED MY HOPE! I'm just joking, in case you couldn't tell. It does make me feel even more sad for Terra though.


I would like to see Kairi and Sora grow closer too. What do you mean "real relationship" though? Thay have always had one, it's just that their relationship is kind of understated and subtle. It's clear that their feelings for each other have been quite strong from the beginning (in KH1 Sora stabs himself for her), although it's true that they have been strengthened and solidified with time. I think that their relationship will always remain kind of subtle, at least compared to other disney and real-life relationships, but I do hope that it is shown a lot more in the next game. Nomura does listen to fans based on everything he says (and he even went to the Japanese launch event of KH 3D to see fan's reactions, which is awesome and shows how much he listens to and cares about the fans) so if everyone wants it then its likely that we'll get it, yay! As for Versus, we shouldn't get too off topic because the mods and the Platinum members really crack down on that (it's good that they keep topics on track, but they are pretty extreme about it, to the point where they will jump in if there is one post off topic, still it's better to have overly active mods than mods who don't do anything) but I think that Noctis and Stella are definitely have something going on between them. If Noctis does have a love interest (he could not have one or the few clips we have might just be misleading) it will most likely be her.

vitornavarrete
10th Sep 2012, 18:49
I mentioned Versus because it's a Nomura's game, so if he start doing more "romantic" stuff there, he can also do some in KH. The thing about "real relationship" is like what happened at the begining of KH I. They were together, doing normal random stuff, like building a raft to go to another worlds and so. There were cutscenes in a row were they interacted. And that was it. Sure, there were hollow bastion/traverse town cutscenes in I, very meaningful indeed, after that some scenes in TWTNW in II. But that was it. Sora was always fighting, without some time for little things etc. So, if they are fighting together we will see more cutscenes with both of them. Arguing, joking around and doing normal stuff that teenagers do, when they have some spare time from fighting against evil forces. Know what I'm saying? Funny stuff, like Kairi trying to hold Sora's hand and he blushing or Donald insinuating something and they both blushing. They are fifteen, they have to waste their time with normal stuff, or they will be resentful grown ups XD






And about Aqua's line, I think you're referring to this one:


www.youtube.com/watch?v=avi7PapAjaQ&t=4m... (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avi7PapAjaQ&t=4m58s)


She says "I think I know how to find him." and then holds the wayfinder. During the special chapter Mickey doesn't show up. And, one thing that I love in Kingdom Hearts is how they have a respect for the lines when translating: "Giving up already?" "Give me a break Aqua/Kairi." etc. So I don't think that any line she said in BbS is the one Mickey is talking about. Trust me, I watched all of them three times since I saw Mickey saying that, because I do think they met in the RoD and was investigating this. Another additional thing is Mickey says "Master Aqua" but in BbS he only calls her "Aqua" and, usually, he says 'Master Yen Sid' and 'Master Xehanort' the same way T, V, A use 'Master Eraqus'. But, when they were apprentice togheter they don't use titles, like 'Xehanort' calls ME only 'Eraqus' and the other way around. Terra and Ventus don't start calling Aqua 'Master Aqua'. So, for Mickey to address her as 'Master Aqua' makes me wonder of some deeper message. My guess is that she helped Mickey down there but for some reason couldn't make back. Actually we don't even know how Mickey managed to leave the RoD.

picamaispi29
11th Sep 2012, 11:35
Yeah, I know what you mean. I want to see some of that too. Resentful grownups, lol. It's so hard to imagine Sora ever being one. When everything is finally over perhaps Sora and his friends will finally be able to be normal again and Sora can go back to slacking off and sleeping on the beach. :)


I guess I was wrong then. I could have sworn that it was in there but maybe I just assumed that that scene was where that line came from (because that is what Aqua did, follow the bond between her and Terra's heart to find him) and then remembered the scene wrong every time afterwards. My bad, sorry.


I love how they translate the lines too. I hate when anything is translated badly because even one word can change the whole meaning of a sentence and one sentence can change the meaning of a whole conversation. If something isn't translated as well as I like it to be then I always have to watch both the subtitled version in the original language and the English version to make sure that I don't get the wrong meaning out of something. In KH they did an amazing job translating, they made it more how English people speak while still staying true to the original meaning. With that in mind, it's probably true that that line wasn't in BBS, like you said, unless Mickey learned that lesson from Aqua but put the lesson into his own words, if you get what I mean.


Hmm, the Master thing is true, but he could have just been using her title out of respect. They could have met in the ROD but I think that Nomura will have them meet there if he ever decides to make BBS Volume2 but not have them meet if BBS Volume2 is never made. It would be interesting if they met there and would help explain how Mickey and Yen Sid knew she was in the ROD, although I suppose that they could have known other ways. When Nomura was listing unsolved mysteries of Kingdom Hearts a few years ago he said that they were "the period of the King's absence, the period of Riku's absence, Roxas's time in Organization XIII and Xehanort's past." Two of those stories have already been told (Roxas's time in the Organization= Days & Xehanort's past= BBS) and one of the mysteries (the period of Riku's absence) has been sort of told (where he was for some of his absence was explained in Days), so it is likely that we will eventually see Mickey's time in the ROD in some form, even if it takes many, many years for whatever game it's in to come out. I have my fingers crossed about it. It would be cool to see the ROD (we did see some of it but not much).


BTW, I found that photo (the one that was in the ending) that you wanted and posted how to find it in the thread you created about it.

Ryutim
11th Sep 2012, 17:53
I totally agree with you about having a BBS-2, especially since I never felt like I knew very much about the characters in Organization XIII, at least, not from before they became nobodies, y'know? We saw little bits of their backstory, and how they lost their hearts, but not much more than that, especially not about the characters who weren't in radiant garden when they became nobodies. I'd also love to know about mickey's journey through the RoD, and there's still some of Riku's journey that we don't know about, after all, we don't know what happened between when he was locked in the RoD with mickey, after Sora beat Ansem in KH1, and when Riku woke up in the basement of castle oblivion, there's quite a bit of time between those two points that could give some interesting details to the story, or at least have some fun gameplay, if not both.

xxBIGxxDOGGxx
2nd Oct 2012, 23:56
The seven Warriors of light are...


-Sora


-Riku


-Kairi


-Mickey


-Axel (lea)


-Aqua (is in the realm of darkness. Where sora and Riku escaped from on KH 2.)


-???? (maybe ventus)


thats what i know so far

Shadow_Breaker
24th Oct 2012, 15:40
It Sora, Riku, Mickey, Axel lol I mean Lee, Terra, Aqua, and ventus. Those are the seven because Yen Sin said so. http://na.square-enix.com/tools/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/img/smiley-smile.gif

Ryutim
24th Oct 2012, 15:46
But Terra is gone and they're bringing in Kairi, so your list is off by that point, if not more, and who said that they were limited to only 7 keyblade wielders? You should read the rest of the comments on this point before you assume too much, kingdome_fighter, and remember, just because a character says something doesn't mean he can't be wrong (besides, I don't remember yen sid saying that the people you mentioned were the only possible keyblade wielders, or anything to that effect.).

Shadow_Breaker
24th Oct 2012, 15:58
Don't forget Riku is a master now and he could wake up lock hearts and terra heart is just sleeping inside him atlist thats what I think

Ryutim
25th Oct 2012, 19:54
Y'know, you might just be right about that, after all, Terra's heart was, to the best of my knowledge, locked inside Terranort, and since Terranort released his heart to become a heartless and a nobody, his heart might have been inside his heartless, and since his heartless imprinted itself on Riku's heart, it's possible, and maybe even likely, that Terra's heart went into Riku, the same way that Ven's heart went into Sora, and since Riku beat back the darkness within himself, it's possible that Terra is in a perfect position to have control his heart restored to him, and maybe even given physical form. Wow, the logic actually backs it up, thanks for mentioning the possibility, Kingdom_fighter. What does everyone else think about this? Are there any flaws in the chain of logic that I'm not seeing? What do you think the odds are of this being the case? I'd love to see everyone else's views on this.

Zench-XIII
25th Oct 2012, 20:08
It's most likely that Terra's heart ended in Xemnas. Remember that Xemnas tended to visit Aqua's armor, showing what could be Terra's influence, not to mention that he wanted to find the chamber where Ventus is sleeping. But in the end, Xehanort's influence was a lot bigger than Terra's, as shown in the Nobody's ambitions. As for Xehanort's Heartless, the fact that he looks like a younger yet adult version of the old coot (similar outfit too) might indicate the presence of Xehanort's heart.

Shadow_Breaker
26th Oct 2012, 07:13
I also think that because mickey was talking about it when they were saving sora, anyway we are ganna have to wait because this is kingdom hearts we are talking about. So if they made Axel a keyblade and took you by suprice then we are ganna have to wait for the next game which I hope its 3 but I now that will not happen now.

Ryutim
26th Oct 2012, 16:19
*Spoiler Warning*


You might be right, Zench, but like Kingdom_fighter said, this is Kingdom Hearts we're talking about, and the story in KH always takes a turn in some unexpected ways, so maybe Terra's heart was inside Xemnas, or maybe it's inside Riku (like you said, Xehanort had a reason to visit Aqua's armor, even without Terra's influence), or maybe we're both right and Terra's heart went into Riku somehow after Xemnas was destroyed (it's possible that his heart took shelter in a heart that it had touched before [Terra gave Riku the power to wield the keyblade, and it's highly likely that that process has something to do with a person's heart connecting with the heart of the person who they're giving the power to, even if it's just for a moment.], and that was also similar to his own heart [they're both touched by darkness, and they both tempered it with their will to protect the ones they love, even if Xehanort kinda ruined that for Terra, taking over his body and all.].), we'll just have to wait and see.

Tlozbj
27th Oct 2012, 15:50
SPOILERS


I imagine the seven wielders are: Sora,Riku,Mickey,Aqua,Ventus,Terra and Kairi. The reason of Lea not being there is that when he save Sora we never see if he destroys Xehanort's heart. He only appears there in front of Sora shielding him. For all we know he absorbed Xehanort's heart. Because it seem pretty strange that he could just invoke his keyblade after that event. Kairi being one is confirmed by the secret movie in KH3D named Another Guardian of light.

Ryutim
27th Oct 2012, 19:31
*Spoilers*


Yeah, but we already knew that Kairi was a keyblade wielder because of that scene in KH2, so all the secret movie really told us is that she's going to be trained to use it (and honestly, she's a natural, she was killing heartless in The World That Never Was with one hit each, I mean, I know that they were just shadows, but still, you could get to that point as Sora and still need a couple of hits to kill them off.). I think you might be right about who the keyblade wielders are, but I don't think that Lee is a bad guy, I just think that there can be more than seven keyblade wielders of light, so while seven is all that is necesary to unlock Kingdom Hearts, there's no reason they can't even the odds and have thirteen keyblade wielders of light, that way, they can go against Xehanorts true Orginization XIII, one on one, if they have to, besides, Lee may not be a bad guy, but he's not really the type of person who would fit with the title, "Keyblade Wielder of Light", y'know?

Shadow_Breaker
27th Oct 2012, 23:20
Lol this is so FREAKING funny and true and so unfair how is she so much stronger then sora and she is like in LVL 1. XD


www.youtube.com/watch?v=r41GiZEeSpA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r41GiZEeSpA)

Shadow_Breaker
27th Oct 2012, 23:31
<sup>*SPOILER*</sup>

Ok here a video it a spoiler if you havent finish kimgdom hearts 3D this is the secret video so I alreally know how they are in the team of 7 light so enjoy. ^_^


www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qvrmNsxfXU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qvrmNsxfXU)

Ryutim
30th Oct 2012, 23:14
I wonder what would happen if Sora and Kairi fought each other at full strength, would Sora win, or would Kairi kick his butt? Personnally, I'm voting for Kairi, but I think that Sora would win, dispite the fact that Kairi's totally a natural with the keyblade, without combat experience, she'd probably lose.

Shadow_Breaker
31st Oct 2012, 12:21
Lol


Sora Lvl 100 Vs. Kairi Lvl 1


BEGIN!!!


WINNER KAIRI!!!


Lol thats so hilarious XD

Ryutim
31st Oct 2012, 14:54
Lol, I agree. I really hope that KH3 has a multiplayer mode of some kind, it'd be awsome to actually be able to play that match out (and Kairi would still win).

Shadow_Breaker
31st Oct 2012, 17:24
Yea I agree. They should new thing with the game like multi-player, or online.

vitornavarrete
31st Oct 2012, 20:18
KH3 could begin with Kairi and Lea doing some training under Master Yen Sid supervision. Just like Ventus/Aqua/Terra did with master Eraqus. But we could controll them or something.

Ryutim
1st Nov 2012, 20:27
Yeah, and then they're sent off on some mission or other, or maybe they're attacked during their training, there are so many possibilities.

Shadow_Breaker
2nd Nov 2012, 13:38
Do you guys think that the dream eater idea will past over to kingdom hearts 3?

Ryutim
2nd Nov 2012, 20:04
I certainly hope not! I hated having to get my abilities by petting them all the time, if it weren't for that, I'd have enjoyed KH:DDD a lot more, and I know that it's stupid to blame not liking a game because of one bad feature, but I have a bit of a perfectionist streak, so it drove me nuts to go to the dream eater section and not pet them until I was getting nothing but 1 heart for every few seconds of petting, so I was spending most of my time petting them when I should have been kicking but, y'know? I didn't buy kingdom hearts so I could take care of imaginary animals, if I had wanted to do that, I'd have bought nintendogs, or better yet, I'd have just played one of my pokemon games, in pokemon, you can beat things up to gain levels, and not have to pet your pokemon for them to gain experience, which really doesn't make any sense, now that I think about it, but honestly, I'd have been fine with it if I didn't have to get my abilities by petting the dream eaters, and doing it so much that they should get friction burn from it or something (I'm fine with petting animals, but seriously, they give you experience and stuff for petting them to death, it's ridiculous.).

picamaispi29
2nd Nov 2012, 20:51
Me too. The dreameaters in themselves were ok (I actually sort of liked them once I got used to their brilliant colors) but the petting drove me crazy. I'm a perfectionist too so I was trying to max out the happiness of my dreameaters and it took me almost twice as long to do that as it took to complete the game. The ability board would be cool if there was a different way to get the ability points for it but the endless petting that made it annoying. I don't think we have to worry about the dreameaters coming back in the next game (thank goodness) because Nomura designed them specifically for the sleeping worlds. The thing that worries me the most is whatever new kind of creature might be invented. If new creatures are invented they might involve a worse ability system then petting dreameaters (as hard as it is to imagine one).

Shadow_Breaker
3rd Nov 2012, 17:46
Lol ok thank I'm just asking because of the secret video of the end of the game.

Ryutim
3rd Nov 2012, 17:50
If they do create new creatures, then I don't think that they'll be allies the way the dream eaters were in DDD, so we probably don't have to worry about that, at least, I really hope not.

Ryutim
3rd Nov 2012, 17:55
@ Kingdom_fighter, I know about the secret video at the end of DDD, but I don't think we'll have to worry about the dream eaters coming back. I looks to me like KH3 will be about Kairi and Lee, and since they never went to the sleeping worlds, and since it doesn't look like they're going to go there anytime soon, the dream eaters shouldn't be a problem. I actually think that the secret video you mentioned had more to do with the fact that Sora needs to go into Ven's dreams and wake him up, rather than there being any problems in the sleeping worlds.

Shadow_Breaker
14th Nov 2012, 21:00
Hey guys who do you think are the other organization 13 member we havent saw yet

Ryutim
14th Nov 2012, 22:25
I'm not sure, but it's possible that Venitas is one of them, although the fact that we beat what was left of him as the first secret boss of BBS might indicate otherwise, but then again, we've beaten people plenty of times without them actually dying (I think Axel/Lee holds the record for deaths in the KH series, not counting the number of times Sephiroth died in non-KH games or the fact that you could fight him several times in KH1 [and the same goes for other people in the KH series, like how you can fight Leon, Cloud, and Yuffie in the coliseum.].), so there's no way to be sure.

Zench-XIII
14th Nov 2012, 23:06
According to the description of the Remnant in BBS, he's what's left of Vanitas' mighty will and power. But that battle can't be canonical, unlike the one with (not so) Mysterious Figure. When Vanitas was defeated, if that created the Remnant, there's no way Terra, Ven or Aqua could've fought him since, well, all that happened to them after the battle at the Keyblade Graveyard. Since Vanitas was the darkness of Ven's heart, his defeat should've made him return there completely, but if a part of him remained separated from Ven's heart, maybe Xehanort found it. Or maybe Vanitas is completely part of Ven's heart but is reacting to Xehanort's presence.

Ryutim
15th Nov 2012, 17:08
Actually, since Ven's heart was shattered in his battle with Venitas, it's totally possible that some of Venitas' darkness escaped, or maybe was shoved out, my point is, since Ven's heart went and took shelter in Sora's heart, what was left of Venitas must have gone somewhere, and while I think some of it might have been hidden in Ven's heart (that darkness that took over Ven's armor when it was protecting his and Sora's hearts, the darkness that Riku had to go into Sora's dreams to defeat at the end of KH:DDD), more of it probably became Venitas' Remnant, and like you said, Terra, Aqua, and Ven weren't in any position to go and beat up what was left of Venitas, so maybe Xehanort found it and was able to turn in into one of his 13 darknesses somehow. This whole chain of logic depends on a whole lot of random chance, which makes it seem pretty unlikely, but it is definatly possible.

Zench-XIII
15th Nov 2012, 17:20
Just a question: Why do you call him Venitas?

Ryutim
16th Nov 2012, 22:17
My bad, I thought that was how Vanitas' name was spelled, but I was going off of how it sounds and the fact that he's made of the dark part of Ven's heart, and since I never really payed attention to the spelling before, I didn't know to change the e to an a. Sorry about that.

Zench-XIII
16th Nov 2012, 22:22
Is that the same for Lea? I've seen you wrote it as Lee.

Ryutim
17th Nov 2012, 19:53
Actually, I just wasn't thinking when I typed it like that. I know it's spelled Lea, but I'm used to that name being spelled Lee, so I forget sometimes. I have the same problem with the name John, I always spell it Jon, just because I know some people who spell it Jon, and I'm used to it being spelled that way. I'm sorry if there was any confusion because of my lack of spelling skills, I'm actually pretty good with words most of the time, just not with their spelling.

Shadow_Breaker
21st Nov 2012, 21:06
Don't worry man its alright! http://na.square-enix.com/tools/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/img/smiley-laughing.gif So did any one you hear of Kingdom Hearts 1.5 if you did what do you think?

Zench-XIII
21st Nov 2012, 21:10
Don't worry man its alright! So did any one you hear of Kingdom Hearts 1.5 if you did what do you think?






At this point, and since it was announced some time ago, everyone should probably know about this. Recent news reveal that 1.5 is about 80-90% complete, but people are waiting for an official overseas release date.


EDIT: There's already a thread about that. Let's try to keep things in order and discuss topics on their respective threads.

Shadow_Breaker
21st Nov 2012, 21:22
Lol ok sorry http://na.square-enix.com/tools/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/img/smiley-tongue-out.gif

WhitePrism
29th Nov 2012, 22:58
According to the ending, I believe there is no "chosen seven". It's just seven lights, they never saidthere were only seven, just that 7 were needed to recreate the x-blade. Also, it didn't say they had to be keyblade wielders. For example, they originally planned to use the 7 princesses of heart as the lights, and only one of them were actually able to use the keyblade.


Therefore, rather than sevenchosen ones, there must be plent of options however only 7 are truly required. There are quite a few options if you look at it that way; sora, riku, Kari, Rosas, axel, xion, terra, Ventus, aqua, Mickey, theprincesses of heart, and maybe even Donald or goofy.


The oLoy way to know is to wait for KH3, I guess...








I like how you wrote this. XD It is true, they didn't say there had to be exactly seven, just that seven are required to confront the thirteen darknesses. Why is it that Xion passed through my head when I mentioned thirteen darknesses? XD That was weird...

Ryutim
30th Nov 2012, 14:48
There's another point to consider, althought Xehanort only had 12 at the end of KH:DDD, that doesn't mean that he'll stop at 13 darknesses, and like Jo said, they don't have to be keyblade wielders, so even if Xehanort doesn't find another vessal, if Maleficent gets involved in the fight, her darkness might be enough to fill the requirements. That's one of the things that I love about KH, pretty much anything could happen, and I can spend hours just talking about the possibilities, which is always fun, even if most of them never end up happening.

Shadow_Breaker
12th Dec 2012, 20:39
Lol I know right! Can't wait for KH3!http://na.square-enix.com/tools/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/img/smiley-laughing.gif

Ryutim
13th Dec 2012, 21:42
Same here, it's gonna be awsome! But I'm willing to wait, just as long as we get the remixes in the meantime.

Shadow_Breaker
24th Dec 2012, 12:38
So is there going to be a BBS2 or something?

picamaispi29
24th Dec 2012, 13:37
Nomura says no so far, but you never know. There might eventually be.

member_10706996
24th Dec 2012, 16:56
My hypothesis on the seven Guardians of Light are:

1. Sora
2. Riku
3. Kairi
4. King Mickey
5. Lea
6. Aqua
7. Ventus

Terra is already possessed by Master Xehanort so I'm assuming Terra can't fight alongside them. Roxas/Xion returned to Sora; perhaps they may add a twist where if two of the guardians were to be missing, Roxas/Xion may take their places.

Interestingly, Kairi is both a Guardian of Light and Princess of Heart.

Ryutim
24th Dec 2012, 22:41
According to the secret ending of BBS, Terra's heart is still being contested, so it's possible that he might come back somehow, and since Kairi can wield a keyblade, it might be possible for Namine to use one as well, you never know. And as it was stated before, the seven lights and thirteen darknesses are just a requirement, not a maximum limit, and they don't all have to be keyblade wielders, as shown by how Xehanort was planning on using the princesses of heart if his other plans didn't work out.

member_10706996
25th Dec 2012, 15:50
The seven Princesses of Heart are an alternative to Master Xehanort since they are more vulnerable and easier to obtain if the seven Guardians of Light refuses to clash against the Thirteen Darknesses to create the x-blade. He can achieve his goals either way. Sora and the gang don't have much of a choice but to stop them and protect the Princesses of Heart.

Shadow_Breaker
25th Dec 2012, 16:01
Here a trailer of Kingdom Hearts 1.5 Merry Christams enjouy!


www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7KNOXF5UbE&feat... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7KNOXF5UbE&feature=em-uploademail)

Ryutim
25th Dec 2012, 18:16
Thanks, Merry Christmas!

KingdomHeartsGamerGirl
31st Dec 2012, 21:14
When Riku goes into save Sora, and Mickey come and saves them; he begins listing them off. He listed Himself, Riku, Sora, his three missing friends(Terra, Aqua, and Ventus), and then he then trails off, leaving it a mystery. But Mickey himself, has no idea of the status of Terra. So therefore, I wouldn't count Terra as one of the 7 wielders of light. Now thinking back, I would count Lea/Axel as one of the new 7 wielders of light. As for the last one, unless in the third game they are some how about to Save Terra(Which I would be VERY happy about) that would complete the 7. But if they fail to save Terra, I would have to, unfortunately, count Kairi to be the 7th wielder.

So if they save Terra, The wielders would be:
1.) Sora
2.) Riku
3.) Mickey
4.) Ventus
5.) Terra
6.) Aqua
7.) Lea

If they can't save Terra, and resort to Kairi; just swap Kairi in the list with Terra.

Ryutim
1st Jan 2013, 18:09
Why do you think it would be unfortunate to count Kairi in the seven? Kairi's awsome. Moreover, as has been stated before, I don't know of any reason why they would be limited to seven keyblade wielders, just as long as they have a minimum of seven, it shouldn't be a problem. Actually, the real problem would be to have all of the necesarry lights and darknesses together, since Xehanort's goal is to unlock the true Kingdom Hearts, so if they could figure out a way to beat Xehanort without having seven or more "lights" (however you define the term) present at the battle, then they'd be able to win, but if the seven lights and thirteen darknesses all clash, even if the lights win, Xehanort will still achieve his goal. Tricky stuff, isn't it?

B.I.R.Link94
9th Feb 2013, 21:31
I would like to ask everyone this question. Who are the chosen seven? seven keyblade wielder that is. I double checked and I counted 3 keyblade wielders which are Sora, Riku, and Kairi. So who are the remaining four to battle against the true organization XIII? It's up to you to decide who are the remaining four.

you already have the first three, the other four are terra, aqua, ventus, and mickey

edward.busch.18
10th Feb 2013, 07:43
I would like to ask everyone this question. Who are the chosen seven? seven keyblade wielder that is. I double checked and I counted 3 keyblade wielders which are Sora, Riku, and Kairi. So who are the remaining four to battle against the true organization XIII? It's up to you to decide who are the remaining four.

you already have the first three, the other four are terra, aqua, ventus, and mickey


Lea! terra being used and needs saving

Ryutim
10th Feb 2013, 15:12
Yeah, and Aqua and Ventus need to be saved as well, although I think they'll be much easier to save than Terra will be.

edward.busch.18
10th Feb 2013, 15:48
Yeah, and Aqua and Ventus need to be saved as well, although I think they'll be much easier to save than Terra will be.


YEAH! terra kinda busy being 2 bad guys (Ansem and Xenmas) right now so he'd have to get back to ya guys hoping he gonna be back

Ryutim
12th Feb 2013, 23:47
I'm not sure that he actually is them, the last time we saw him, he was arguing with Xehanort over the ownership of his heart, and with Ansem and Xemnas being a nobody and a heartless (one body and one heart/darkness), it's possible that Terra's heart isn't even in them anymore, although it still has the same problem that Riku's heart had, having Xehanort's shadow imprinted on it, trying to take control, but then again, they also mentioned something about Master Eraqus giving Terra strength, or something along those lines, so I'm really not sure what the heck is happening.

new_tradition
13th Feb 2013, 02:32
(sorry, didn't read all the posts, so just probably repeating what's already been said)


I feel like I gotta play BbS and 3D again or at least watch through the theatre modes or something. I'm forgetting so many details X_x


IMO, Sora, Riku, Lea, Kairi, Mickey, Ventus, and Aqua appear to be the most likely 7 being talked about. Although for the sake of saying it, Lea being a wielder just came waaaay out of left field, lol.


Nevermind that little teaser in the 3D secret ending, but we see Kairi fight in KH2, and even as far back as the KH1 secret ending, the random dialog teasers included "This time, I'll fight", which we later find out to know to be Kairi's words. Why couldn't that just continue past KH2? That they even took the time to show that little scene in BbS to explain how she was able to use a keyblade briefly, 10 years later, just seems like it was too planned out not to be used for something bigger.


Terra for his part is pretty indisposed, and I can't even begin to think of how he could be restored as his whole heart, mind and body self. He's basically the story's damsel in distress at this point as far as I'm concerned, lol.


Aqua is trapped in the Dark Realm, but that's really it. If she can be rescued/escape, then she's good. She somehow is able to use Eraqus' keyblade when she gave up her's to save Terranort, so I feel like there something to that bit that can be expanded on. That her keyblade and armour is still in a physical form for Xemnas to look upon while he broods in KH2FM+ is another thing to poke at me thinks. I also mentioned a while ago in the other thread that I feel like Kairi can somehow open a doorway to the Dark Realm, giving Aqua (and maybe Ansem the Wise?) an out.


Ventus is...Hrmm. He did smile in KH3D, leading one to think he's not just a breathing shell. I'm just not understanding why Sora can't simply release Ventus' heart like he did for Kairi in KH1? It's been 10 years? Ain't that enough time to restore his heart station or whatever? xD

edward.busch.18
13th Feb 2013, 08:39
Sora did release Ventus' heart in the creation of Roxas but his heart was still healing from the shattering of the X-blade.


That Ansem the wise guy is just itching to be a bad guy even though he helped the heroes so much i wouldnt be surprised if he "helped" Aqua to escape to exploit his own means.


Terra's will is also seperated into his armor... his heart dissappeared and im not exactly sure how Xenmas is around cuz for once we actually beat him unlike Ansem seeker of darkness who just dissappeared after light came outta Kingdom Hearts...


Half Xehanort Braig- Xigbar seems to be in on alotta bad secrets.... I agree New tradition over the Wielders up to only Sora... he seems so obvious and everytime i expect the obvious Nomura pulls something else outta the books! He might start the game off like Roxas but after that im thinking somethings gonna happen

Ryutim
15th Feb 2013, 22:27
Yeah, KH always has a curveball or ten somewhere along the lines, hell, maybe Sora really will be taken over by Xehanort, that was what almost happened in DDD, but even so, I just don't see it happening, sure, Sora lost to the darkness for a while there, but this is Sora we're talking about, and since that's what a lot of people are probably thinking, it'd be a perfect twist for it to actually happen, and I can even find an explination for it, since Sora's heart is so good, having so much light inside of it, he doesn't have any real experience fighting darkness from within his own heart (he can kill millions of heartless, but they're not attacking him from within, using emotional pain to create darkness in his heart), and if Xehanort had enough time to put a shadow of himself into Sora's heart, like he did with Riku, this might not be so unlikely after all. (Does my ability to predict that make it less likely to happen, or am I taking the reverse psychology thing too far?)

edward.busch.18
16th Feb 2013, 01:01
eh could go that way, im thinking Xehanort already has a foothold in Sora's Heart.... if read about Vanitas his eyes were red at his creation BUT his eyes glow the same as the Vessals of Xehanort! then it was explained that Vanitas' appearence in KH3D was a result of Ventus' heart reacting to Vanitas' during the cutsceane where young Xahanort is talking..."whispering to the darkness" lying in Sora's heart....

Ryutim
16th Feb 2013, 18:55
I don't remember the cutscene you're talking about, which one is it again?

edward.busch.18
16th Feb 2013, 19:24
Sora's side of the story go to theatre mode " la cite des cloches" under the title "out there"

Ryutim
19th Feb 2013, 23:56
Yeah, I watched it, and you're right, and I really feel stupid for not noticing it before, hell, I didn't even remember that Vanitas was in DDD, although it was just a small part (which just makes the fact even more important, since they spent so much time to create a model of Vanitas, just to put him in a single scene), but it does back up my theory that Xehanort is using Vanitas' remnant as one of his 13, just in a different way than I'd imagined (I'm not sure that it means that Vanitas' heart went into Sora when Sora was young, because it might just mean that Vanitas' remnant was planted inside Sora's heart while he was sleeping in DDD, and I think that the latter is more likely, considering the fact that Vanitas' heart has never really influenced Sora before DDD, well, not overtly at least, and with darkness powerful enough to help create the X-blade, even when it was destroyed like that, it would have shown itself in some way, especially when Sora fell into darkness after releasing Kairi's heart in KH1.).

edward.busch.18
20th Feb 2013, 03:56
Ok this is where it gets intresting ... Vanitas originally looked like the Anti black coat with red eyes.... But when Sora's heart saved Ven's ... Sora's heart ALSO connected with Vanitas which is why he took on the Appearence of Sora (interview with Nomura) ....but.....BUT! his yellow eyes carry on the impression of Xehanorts influence....

edward.busch.18
20th Feb 2013, 03:58
Ok this is where it gets intresting ... Vanitas originally looked like the Anti black coat with red eyes.... But when Sora's heart saved Ven's ... Sora's heart ALSO connected with Vanitas which is why he took on the Appearence of Sora (interview with Nomura) ....but.....BUT! his yellow eyes carry on the impression of Xehanorts influence....


Also in the same scean i mentioned earlier young Xehanort/Vanitas reffered to Sora's heart as a prison....doesnt seem like Vanitas wants to be there

Ryutim
21st Feb 2013, 23:07
You might be right about that, but I think it's more likely that he was reffering to Ventus, because if Sora returns Ven's heart to him, then Sora won't have as much protection against the darkness (basically trying to get Sora to let go of his defenses), after all, Ven's armor was what protected Sora's heart from being taken over by darkness in DDD. Wait, something just occurred to me, Ven's armor was taken over by darkness, so could Ven's heart have been infected with Xehanort's darkness, and it's being held back by Sora's, Roxas', and Xion's hearts, meaning that Ven could become one of Xehanort's vessals if Sora returns Ven's heart to him? Damn, the possibility of Sora becoming one of Xehanort's vessals has made me paranoid (well, more so than usual anyway).

edward.busch.18
22nd Feb 2013, 00:52
i dont know about that....I got anther issue... when Xehanort fired his heart at Sora...he smirked.... as if he knew he would be stopped...they had Sora for much longer then we seen becuase he was sitting on a throne at "where nothing Gathers" but they were in the Chasm of sleep... what if he already knew Sora was a vessal but put on a charade so Sora could be Xehanorts eyes and ears and strike when others are not expecting it

Ryutim
27th Feb 2013, 15:39
That's a really good point. I can't wait to see how the story unfolds from here.

edward.busch.18
27th Feb 2013, 15:50
BUT FIRST! we have to go back in time and play the first 2 games and watch a third.....SO everyone ready? seems like its gonna hurt ripping my heart outta my body to travel through time but allswell! kick ass game here i come...lolz in HD!

Ryutim
1st Mar 2013, 17:18
I can't wait, this is gonna rock, even if I have played it like a bajillion times before, the final mix content will make it all worth it, and if we get the KH2.5 remix like we're all hoping for, we'll all be more than ready for KH3.

MichaelVoid
1st Mar 2013, 19:29
I can't wait for KH 1.5 either. In my opinion, it seems to me like Mickey won't be one of the Seven. Axel/Lea went through all that trouble to get his Keyblade for nothing? that's just wrong. Besides, Mickey's special. He's not connected to Xehanort aat all except that he help Ventus, Terra, and Aqua for one battle each. Mickey would be more like an observer. The Seven and XIII have to be equally powered to make the X-Blade and since Mickey's just going around helping people it either seems like he's either too powerful or too weak to be one of the Seven. Lea earned his place and he's proven it. When he sacrificed his life for Sora that proved he had a heart and that he had Light in him and so far all the Seven has Darkness in them (except for the girls, for some odd reason). The way I see it it's Sora, Riku, Kairi, Ventus, Terra, Aqua, and Lea against the True Organization XIII. So far only known members are Master Xehanort himself, Xemnas, Ansem, Young Xehanort, Braig, and Isa. There are also six others whose identities are not yet revealed.

edward.busch.18
1st Mar 2013, 20:28
um Terra wont be able to help ANYONE as long as Xehanort has his body (Xenmas) and Heart (Ansem SoD) Recount! Recount! what is this Florida?

edward.busch.18
1st Mar 2013, 20:30
Also i would LOVE to play Kingdom Hearts 2 AGAIN! this time FINAL MIX! but I also WANT KH3 so im torn about what i really want so Square can just gibve me both at the same time...

Silverwing
13th Mar 2013, 19:59
Dont know if its been said or not but... I'm here to put my little twist on things





*BEWARE SPOILERS*


the 7 Lights Keybearers


Sora, for the most obvious reason. he is the main character and the entire saga right now revolves around the battle between him and Xehanort. As well as stated that he is the key that connects everything and will be nessicary to end the pain and suffering of the six people who are tied to him.


Riku, again obvious from 3D. He was named a true master and his immunity to the darkness will be a great asset in the final battle. He has proven himself time and again, and saved Sora's butt from trouble numerous times to boot. Plus these two are always friends and rivals, making them a great pair to have to force each other to get stronger.


Kairi, again should be fairly obvious given the ending of 3D. Yen Sid had Riku go get her for a reason. The fact that she can wield a keyblade on top of being one of the seven Princesses of Heart will give her a unique advantage, abilities and so forth no others would be able to use. Plus this means that theres a higher chance of the story not revolving around chasing her down to save her from Xehanort again.


Mickey is up for his knowledge on the events that have gone on in the worlds since Birth by Sleep. He knows Xehanort well and given his friendship with Aqua and Ven will do whatever it takes to help save them. He has fought Xehanort at every turn in one form or another. Be it traveling to the Realm of Darkness to get the Dark Realm Keyblade or fighting him in his various forms or his companions (Vanitas for example.)


Lea, is another one thanks to the ending of 3D. With his mastery over fire and the keyblade, on top of having worked with three of the Xehanorts for several years. He would make another great asset to the group. On top of they would not have given him a keyblade if they didnt plan on him being there in the final fight. Plus, this is just icing really, hes funny, snarky little f****r that is a great offset to everyone else. Plus right now he is off in another time and place training under Merlin to get a better handle on things so liekly by the time he reappears in KH3 he will be on par with the rest.


Aqua, she is a keyblade master, well balanced and master magic user and master of Water. Not only does she have experience with fighting against Xehanort and knows his tretchery well... She has also been trapped in the Realm of Darkness for the past 11 years fighting heartless the whole time. She will want to help end Xehanort for good, and save Ven and Terra from their ends Xehanort had delt them 11 years prior.


Ven, simple enough, Mickey and Yen Sid have tracked down the location of where Aqua has stashed his body and where his heart has gone to. This guides things to getting Aqua so she can retrieve his body and help get his heart back where it belongs. He will be with Aqua in stopping Xehanort and saving their friend from him. As well his mastery over Wind will help a lot. (I will note that i would like to see Ven having aged 11 years since he fell into sleep.)





Now I have seen people screaming for Terra, Roxas, and Xion to be among the ranks of the 7. I hate to be this part pooper but.


Terra, in the final controntation in 3D between Riku, Mickey and the True Organization. Mickey lists off "Well theres Sora, Riku, and myself. MY three friends Terra, Aqua and Ven...." as being on the side of light and then noted something about the 12 Xehanorts gathered there like he knew each of them, or spotted something. But back to Terra, Xehanort stopped him saying "VEry perceptive little king, but Sora and another on the list belong to me now, making you 3 keyblade wielders short" The other being Terra in the form of Terra-Xehanort. Terra most deffinantly is one of the Xehanorts.


Roxas and Xion. Roxas willingly joined with Sora in the end, while he would have liked to have continued to live, he understands what role he was meant for in the larger scale and that Sora is the one that was needed not him. If we ever see him again outside of Sora it will be after KH3. As for Xion, no one remembers her, while true to the point that Chain of Memories stated that all memories are not erased just burried somewhere deep within the darkness of the heart. Xion only appeared to Sora because she now represents those memories that she took from him. With that that could mean there is a chance to bring her back but that would need to be after KH3 and it could end up doing more harm then good to Sora.


As for the 13 Seekers of Darkness, we have already seen Master Xehanort, Young Xehanort, Ansem, Xemnas, Xigbar, and Siax. I would like to add in at least two more that we can consider for this.


Terra-Xehanort, the original being of Ansem and Xemnas. While most would refute that he isnt simply because his heartless and nobody are still around. Take note that each of the Xehanorts were called in from different time periods. So it would stand to reason that Terra-Xehanort would be among the rank as well regardless that his heartless and nobody are still around. In what stage, I would presume to say either just before he got his butt handed to him by Lingering Will and Aqua, causing him to loose his memories, or the newly reformed one somewhere in the worlds.


Vanitas. He makes a sure fire candidate for a Xehanort. Though I can also toss him out, he has no regard for anyone but himself and has on multiple occasions gone against Xehanorts orders. But it was stated that when he was born he had red eyes and not yellow. So this could mean he houses part of Xehanort in him unknowingly, and would be called in from 11 years past.

Ryutim
14th Mar 2013, 17:28
*Spoiler Warning*


I think you're wrong about Terra, Roxas, and Xion, but I'll go in order. We know from the secret ending of BBS that Terra was still fighting Xehanort within his heart, and it was implied that Master Eraqus was helping him somehow, so it's still possible that both of them could come back in time to join the final battle. I know it's kinda unlikely for Master Eraqus, but all Terra needs is control of his heart in order to come back to life, since we know that hearts, in and of themselves, can create a physical form, even if the person's body isn't his own anymore (Sora came back, even when Roxas was using his body, although he did need Kairi's help to do it). Next, Roxas: We know that Nobodies that exist long enough can grow their own hearts, and with the fact that a heart is all he'd need to create his own body, it's definately possible for Roxas to come back to life. Now for Xion: Even if Sora can't remember her at the moment, Riku saw her when he went into Sora's dreams to wake him up, and add the fact that Roxas, being inside Sora on the same level (for lack of a better word) that Xion is, if Roxas get's out, then it's definately possible for him to help Xion get out as well, and that's not even taking into account the data that Riku got from Ansem the Wise when he was in Sora's dreams. We don't really know what that data was about, but there's a good chance that Ansem/DiZ knew about Xion from when he was messing with Sora's memories, so it's definately possible that the data mentioned her, at the very least. I'd also like to add a couple more options to the group, Master Yen Sid and Namine, we don't know what made Master Yen Sid quit using the keyblade, but that doesn't mean that he can't use it anymore, and Namine is pretty much the same as Roxas, so if they bring Roxas back, then they could definately bring back Namine, and since Kairi can use the keyblade, and Namine is her Nobody, there's a good chance that Namine could use the keyblade too. That makes a total of 13 possible keyblade wielders of light, Sora, Riku, Kairi, Namine, Lea, Roxas, Xion, Mickey, Master Eraqus, Master Yen Sid, Terra, Aqua, and Ventus. And remember, they never said that they could only have 7 keyblade wielders of light, they just said that they needed at least 7, so using thirteen lights to go up against Xehanort's thirteen darknesses sounds like a good idea to me.

Silverwing
15th Mar 2013, 15:04
I will agree to the fact those three will come back, but I say it wont be till near or after the final battle. But i hold to my reasons on Terra, he is a Xehanort as given what was said in the scene between Mickey and Master Xehanort. Working on those five [Terra, Eraqus, Namine, Roxas and Xion] coming back while trying to stop Xehanort is a bit to much for one game.


Xion I dont expect to see for a long while yet. While Riku did see her, he probably thought nothing of it. And she does not rest at the same level as Roxas, she would be deeper, much much deeper in the shadows. Roxas is up there close to the surface, but he is also dormant with Sora taking the lead and using all of his and Xions power. That would be explained why Roxas talked with Sora and even shaired his pain, while Xion just ran from him and then turning into Namine when he finally did catch up with her.


Now Yen Sid, i doubt he would come out of retirement. His role is that of a mentor figure to the new generation of keyblade wielders, point enough when he tested Riku and Sora in the Mark of Mastery and then had Riku bring Kairi to him for training as well. As well he no longer possesses his keyblade, the Star Seeker, as that now belongs to Mickey. So for him to come out of retirement would require him to gain a new keyblade.


Master Eraqus, also doubtful. Terra would be the only one to know of his wereabouts at this point and time and right now Terra would be tied up within his body fighting XEhanort for control and not doing well given his actions since BBS. As for where he is physically... he is Terra-Xehanorts Guardian that would be my guess.


Namine would be with Roxas, but as well her powers are the manipulation of Sora's Memories not something that will be to handy in a fight. I would see her getting reintroduced after Xehanort is taken out for good. Most her powers would be good for is making everyone forget Sora again, I'd rather not see him sleep away another year. There is also the matter of her getting a keyblade, where would she get it from? Kairi received hers from Riku, and NAmura stated that keyblades just dont come out of thin air, so she would have to obtain one somehow.


As for them adding more to the group then seven is not likely to happen.


It is a nice theroy there but we would seem to be at the point were we agree to disagree.


I would say this is what will most likely happen. Sora, Mickey and a few others will travel to the Dark Realm in search of Aqua. Then head for Castle Oblivion to retrive Ven and get him back on his feet. There are the seven with those two given the five we have seen in 3D. Xehanort will continue to chase down Sora to make into another him, while also keeping an eye out for backups. Much like he originaly had planned on Ven being his vessil and changed that to Terra when he saw the darkness that rested within him. With the full Seven there they will set out and work to stop Xehanort across various worlds much like they have in the past till it comes to a head at the Keyblade Graveyard, where the 7 and 13 will clash and come very very close to not only recreating hte X-blade but opening kingdom hearts.


Much of Aqua and Vens time will be spent chasing after Terra to get him back, which wont happen till after the final clash. Lea will be chasing down Siax to get Isa back.


I have my prediction on where this will lead, and you have yours. I'll leave this at that and see what Namura does with Kingdom Hearts 3. The only way i could see them getting Terra back before the end, is if Xehanort ends up getting Sora during the story.

Ryutim
15th Mar 2013, 19:48
Yeah, we'll have to agree to disagree, and just see how it turns out in the end, but I'd like to put a few more points on the table before then. First off, Mickey went to the realm of darkness and got a keyblade from there, so it's definately possible for Mickey to return Master Yen Sid's keyblade to him, while still having a keyblade of his own. Second, both Roxas and Xion got their keyblades because they were a part of Sora, so Namine sharing Kairi's ability to wield a keyblade isn't much of a stretch. Lastly, and correct me if I'm mistaken, but I don't remember seeing or hearing anything that said that the Kingdom Hearts series, or even just the Ansem Seeker of Darkness Saga, or whatever it's called, has to end with KH3, and personally, I'd love to see the series go on for a few more games at least, so making a game that involves the characters preparing for the final battle, before making the game that actually has the final battle, really doesn't seem like a bad idea to me, just as long as they keep things interesting along the way (and maybe they could do both parts one bit at a time, I mean, do they really have to fight all of the true Organization XIII members at the same time? It's implied that they do, but with Xehanort's ability to travel through time, they could fight them one at a time, defeating them in different worlds and stopping whatever plans Xehanort has for those worlds, and then Xehanort could bring them all back again for the final battle, or at least enough of their energy, or whatever, that it would count as 13 darknesses being there all at once. I really don't know what's going to happen, but that's one of the most awsome things about Kingdom Hearts, we can talk about it for hours at a time, but in the end, they make an even better game than any of us could have imagined.).

Silverwing
17th Mar 2013, 23:21
Ok, first off. I don't like it when people put words into my mouth, so please just watch that. I never said that the series would end with KH3. Namura has stated KH3 will end the Dark Seeker Saga, which is the battle between Sora and Xehanort, and that he has more games planed for the future of Kingdom Hearts. So the final battle between the 7 lights and 13 darknesses (And Sora and Xehanort respectivly) will be in climax of KH3.


heres a few quotes to state so.


Kingdom Hearts 3D Namura Interview kh-info-block.tumblr.com/tagged/DDDNom (http://kh-info-block.tumblr.com/tagged/DDDNom)


"Many fans want the series to keep continuing afterwards as well.


The series that has developed so far as the &ldquo;Xehanort saga&rdquo; should end once and for all in KH3. However, I&rsquo;ve outlined a tentative plot that takes place afterward, so we could continue onto a new chapter. Sora would remain the main character; that wouldn&rsquo;t change."


Kingdom hearts 3D Ultimania kh-info-block.tumblr.com/tagged/DDDint1 (http://kh-info-block.tumblr.com/tagged/DDDint1)


"Pixar has many wonderful titles, and we&rsquo;d love to see them appear. Finally, when will we be able to next play a new Kingdom Hearts game?


I still can&rsquo;t say when, but various developments have already started regarding new titles in the Kingdom Hearts series.


More than one?!


I am sure we&rsquo;ll be able to make some kind of announcement when the time is right, so in the meantime I&rsquo;d like you to keep playing KH3D. There&rsquo;s a high degree of freedom in the play style and the story is full of mysteries, so I would be very pleased if you tried playing on a high level of difficulty and investigating the plot. Also, the mini game Flick Rush is pretty exciting, so please give it a try."


Thats all i have to say really unless you can give more on the reason why you think those people would be there and they would have more then the 7 lights.

Ryutim
18th Mar 2013, 01:28
Sorry about that, I didn't mean to put words into your mouth at all, I'd actually meant that last point as an expantion on some of my former ideas, not as an argument against something you said (or didn't, as the case may be). Anyway, thanks for the info, I'd read some posts that mentioned the Xehanort saga, but I somehow missed the part about KH3 being the last one in the saga. I'm really glad to hear that bit about SE possibly making more KH games, I mean, we talk about that on these forums all the time, but hearing rumors is very different from getting an actual quote about it. I've played all the KH games, but for some reason, I've never really gone through the Nomura interviews, I probably need to do that one of these days, but I really don't like that I have to look outside the games to understand the story of the games, y'know? Anyway, I don't have more reasons why I think that there will be more than seven lights than I've already given, but I don't see why they would be limited to seven either. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

Silverwing
18th Mar 2013, 03:22
It is fine, I know I can be hard to understand at times even when im trying to be crystal clear.


If i wasnt drinking right now I would probably have more to say... but I will save myself some issues with this for later. I know there is evidence to each of those brought up for what they are but, again im under the infulence so I won't look till later





(Yes i know it looks very coherent.... i just concentrated rather hard on this)

Ryutim
21st Mar 2013, 00:57
No problem, I don't always get onto these forums every day, so you can take as much time as you want to look stuff up, I'll get back to you eventually.

Bobguy117
21st Mar 2013, 03:09
Seven Lights: King Mickey, Riku, Aqua, Ven, Lea, Roxas, Kairi.


Thirteen Darknesses: Master Xehanort, Xemnas, Ansem, Young Xehanort, Terranort(?), No Heart(?), Braig, Isa, Marluxia(?), Repliku(?), Demyx(?), Vanitas, Sora.


I also reserve the right for Sora and Vanitas to take the place of any of the Seven Lights, should any of them prove totally incompetant (Kairi). Also Xion could be a member of either group. And I have no idea where Namine would fall.


Vanitas is awesome, and according to the light novels he's totally on the path to being a Zuko, especially if I'm right and he and Sora wind up on the same side.

Silverwing
22nd Mar 2013, 16:09
what are these light novels of which you speak? I know the games each got a novelization but those were only released in Japan.... Id actually love for them to continue to release the KH Manga in the US (even though its non-canon) along with the KH Novels.

Bobguy117
22nd Mar 2013, 19:42
I can't seem to find the website I read them on, but this wiki description of the Vanitas part is pretty good: http://kingdomhearts.wikia.com/wiki/Vanitas#Kingdom_Hearts_Birth_by_Sleep_Novels

paladinstormer
24th Mar 2013, 00:19
Am I the only one that saw every part? The seven are Sora, Riku, Mickey Mouse, Aqua, Ventus, Terra, and Lea. Roxas is from Sora. So Sora might look like Roxas at one point. Then Kairi might be a backup keyblade Weilder. But my question is where did Terra go because I don't have birth by sleep?

member_10628951
24th Mar 2013, 00:27
Am I the only one that saw every part? The seven are Sora, Riku, Mickey Mouse, Aqua, Ventus, Terra, and Lea. Roxas is from Sora. So Sora might look like Roxas at one point. Then Kairi might be a backup keyblade Weilder. But my question is where did Terra go because I don't have birth by sleep?






That's a very good question. It's extremely hard to explain and everyone has their theories but the short answer is:


No one truely knows.

Bobguy117
24th Mar 2013, 07:46
You should probably pick up Birth by Sleep and play it. The story of that game exlains 75% of the story of the whole series. What happened to Terra is arguably the most tragic story in all of Kingdom Hearts. Terra is part of the 13 Darknesses, he is one of the two of Mickey's friends that Master Xehanort said was already in his clutches, the other one being Sora.

edward.busch.18
24th Mar 2013, 08:08
Yes and terra's Not up to fight for the side of good.... and then you MUST make certain THAT Sora isnt of the count yet although Mickey counted him before the end of 3D something happened **dont wanna spoil it**

Bobguy117
24th Mar 2013, 08:19
I dunno, the whole point of 3D seemed to be about how Sora wasn't special and wasn't chosen the same way the others were chosen. I don't think he can be a Light. I'd much prefer him to be excluded from the Lights and then still be stronger than all of them put together.

edward.busch.18
24th Mar 2013, 13:36
I think Sora is important but not As a guardian of Light....

Silverwing
25th Mar 2013, 05:09
Sora is important and is a Guardian of Light. I can post several reasons as to why.


<li style="text-align: justify;">He is the main character of Kingdom Hearts and makes an appearance in every game in one form or another
<li style="text-align: justify;">The story from Kingdom Hearts Birth By Sleep to the current game Kingdom Hearts Dream Drop Distance and into the future game Kingdom Hearts 3, is about the battle between Xehanort and Sora and those sweapt up in the middle of their conflict.
<li style="text-align: justify;">Mickey counted him in with the keyblade wielders who stood as the Seven Guardians of Light when he was doing a count on who they had on the side of light. To quote "Well, theres Me, Riku, and Sora, and my three missing friends. Thats six."

edward.busch.18
25th Mar 2013, 05:19
Now to counter those reasons ***spoilers***


1. Sora did not become a Keyblade master


2. Sora IS important and is obvious choice but we played as him in almost Every game ( BbS and Re:coded excluded since he only appeared and was data in those games)


3. Sora was lead along by Xehanort so easily i dont see him fighting someone that serious.... really i know it sounds harsh but that man is a evil genius ....Sora could be tricked WAY too easy!

Silverwing
25th Mar 2013, 05:55
ok...


While he did not become titled a master, Yen Sid recognised him as one. Thus he is on par with Mickey and Riku. This makes him one of the Seven. They never said they had to hold the title Keyblade Master. As that is just a title one just needs to be recognised as being skilled and at the power level of a master.
Yes we did and we will play him again in Kingdom Hearts three. As said before he has made an appearance in one form or another in every game. I did not say we played as the human him. I recognized him as only appearing as a child in KH BBS and a Data-Sora in KH Coded.
that one holds little water. Aqua Ven and Terra were all led along by him for the entirety of BBS. He flat said he guided them to where they were suppose to be. Ven "The broken boy who failed to be the blade." Aqua "The miss guided master who sacraficed herself for a friend" and Terra "The feckless youth who became my new vessel." Sora not only countered Xehanort twice but stopped his Heartless and Nobodies plans in their tracks and just being himself. I say he has more then enough potential to stop Xehanort. Lets not forget that the original Organization 13 manipulated him to their ends and he still stopped them


Also note that he only planned up to the part of him placing his heart into Sora. Lea's appearance obviously threw him off. Evil Mastermind yes, he is a great stratagist but he is not yet shown to be a tactition. He is short sighted and and can act rashley as he admitted at the end of KH 3D. He can make a great plan and even see it to fruition when no wild cards are in play. As soon as you throw in a wild card like Lea things start to go weird. So yes by all means Sora can and will fight Xehanort in the coming game, as Ansem the Wise said all he has to do is be himself.

edward.busch.18
25th Mar 2013, 06:16
1. Terra also was reconized too , I understand the Title doesnt mean enough


2. Im thinking of what Nomura said about sora and the image of all the Sora's raining down... or multiple "SORA's " Namine, Xion, Roxas all came from him while we played as Sora for almost 75% of all the games , and we play as him yet again i cant help but not ignore Sora' being "that dull Ordinary boy Xehanort mentioned"


3. They were led but all 3 were actually trained to weild keyblades, Sora was thrusted into battle and i cant help but feel it was Ven's combat experience in play...plus at anyone time Sora only faced half of Xehanort

Bobguy117
25th Mar 2013, 17:04
Sora is too obvious to be a Light. Xehanort is pretty certain he'll fall to darkness soon, and I for one certainly hope he does. But if we're going for the 1,2,3 numbering....


Sora is a darkness because


1. Sora is the main character, but you don't have to be a main character to be a light. Look at Kairi, she's a background character at best and she's on the way to becoming a full-fledged Guardian of Light. Lea too, neither have been seen as main protagonists in more than one game apiece, yet they are both probably Lights.


2. I prefer to see the series as a battle between Xehanort and all the Guardians of Light, not Sora in particular. Xehanort was originally fighting the disciples of Master Eraquas, Sora wasn't even a part of that first battle.


3. Mickey also counted Terra, and Master Xehanort corrected him immediately after, saying that neither Sora nor Terra can be a Guardian of Light, because both are too busy being seekers of darkness.


On the contrary, Sora is a light because


1. You don't need to be a keyblade master to join, you just need to guard a Princess of Heart, as it is their light that is what Xehanort is after.


2. We can be certain that he will be a playable character in Kingdom Hearts 3, the game is about him after all. So as the main protagonist, he belongs with the good guy team.


3. The opening scene of Kingdom Hearts 3D shows Sora, Riku, Mickey, Terra, Ventus, Aqua, and Roxas teaming up to fight against Xehanort. If we are to look into this as a canon sneak-peak of what is to come, then that is the list of the Seven Guardians of Light, a pretty badass lineup if I do say so myself.


While both sides have merit, I prefer to believe that Sora and Terra are going to be Seekers of Darkness, leaving the Seven Guardians of Light at Riku, Mickey, Kairi, Ven, Aqua, Lea, and Roxas. Two members of each trio and the King of Disney Town makes sense to me as a team.

Silverwing
25th Mar 2013, 17:21
thus one of your counterpoints is rendered moot
Yes they did quote him as being a "dull and ordinary boy" but also stated "A keyblade bearer unlike any i have ever seen". If your talking about the scene in 3D where there are multiple soras raining down on Traverse Town. That is Young Xehanort making a point about the fact that Sora has been there many times "Your first journey... your voyage through memories... in the datascape... in your dreams... Relived again and again... like deja vu." Another meaning could be the hearts that are connected to him of which is everyone within the series. The other sora's being Roxas and Xion. Namine was Kairi's though she was born when Sora freed Kairi's heart from his body. And what would he have said about Sora since you failed to mention that?
Nope Ven never helped Sora out in his adventures save giving him the ability to weild a keyblade. He may have also aided him in Sora's Dive to the Heart in the first game, though Namura did originally state it was Mickey i think that has changed now with the current story. What Sora did what his own skill, Ven could very much be lending his power to Sora. But that would be it. Sora has stated on several occasions that his friends are his power and those connected to him give him strength. As Xigbar/Briag said "Duh... your strong because of your ties with other people." That is why the Realm of Light's keyblade chose him, why it went back to him when Riku took it and what allows him to over come every obstical thrown in his way.
On the note of only facing half of xehanort, i question yes one was his heart the other was his body and soul. But over all they contained all of both Terra and Xehanorts full power in them, all his cunning and much more. The heartless was Master Xehanorts Heartless, while Xemnas the nobody, was Terras Body with Xehanorts Will in command, Terras memorys would play some roles in things like with the Chambers of Awakening and Repose. But each of the Xehanorts shown have been shown to be just as manipulative, cunning, and smart as the original.


Ok Roxas, my numbers were originally just a bullet system but it seems to have spread up to an actual numbering thing lol.


Your points about being the main character meaning nothing, very much true, a lot of series have seen the main character fall into darkness only to rise back out of it later (Star wars would be a key example here). Lea and Kairi are both 100% for sure Guardians of Light, as Lea did obtain a keyblade, and Kairi shows the ability to weild one, which is why Yen Sid sent Riku to fetch her from the islands so she could be trained.


As for BbS if you count the fact that he was helping hold Ven's heart together so he could reclaim Vanitas, then yes he was there even then helping in the fight while not doing so directly. As well Namura has stated that the series so far has been about the fight between Sora and Xehanort, and those caught up in between.


Yes Xehanort did say that Sora and Terra were both Darknesses, but he did not account on Lea showing up and stopping the process. He was again being rash and counting his chickens before they were ready to hatch (sorry for that very poor word play). While i will say this, Xehanort will likely continue to chase after Sora to make him a Darkness, he will be looking for backups. Much like how he went from using Ven to be his vessel to making him the one to become the X-blade.



You dont need to protect a princess, you just need to have a strong heart filled with light. That is what Xehanort is after. If they dont form up a group of seven light keyblade weilders Xehanort will turn his eyes on the Princesses of Heart instead.






I have presented my list of Guardians already, back on post #114 but ill at least list them here.


Sora, Riku, Kairi, Mickey, Lea, Aqua, and Ven.


People say roxas will be there physically taking part, I think that he would be already with Sora in that listing. Along with Xion. Even if not physically present outside of Sora. Lea has been friends with both Roxas and Ven,.

Bobguy117
25th Mar 2013, 17:31
Everything you said is correct, save for Ven giving Sora the ability to wield the keyblade, though none of them are actually reasons why Sora is a Light. What exactly was the point you were trying to make with that most recent post? What was moot? And also did you say that I failed to mention something that was said about Sora? Sorry it's just a very long post and there are too many responses to too many things at once.

Silverwing
25th Mar 2013, 17:57
I wasnt replying to you, that was more at Edward. My part about Ven giving sora the ability to weild the keyblade was this.


"3. They were led but all 3 were actually trained to weild keyblades, Sora was thrusted into battle and i cant help but feel it was Ven's combat experience in play...plus at anyone time Sora only faced half of Xehanort"


And yes by ven being present in his heart, Sora 100% for sure gained the ability to weild a keyblade.


The moot point was that Sora did not become a keyblade master as that was just a title.





In a sum up, Sora is a light, he is connect to everyone, he gains his power from his friends, he has fought against xehanort on multiple accounts and came up as the victor, regardless of the form he has taken. Even while being that dull ordinary boy Xehanort and Namura have stated him to be.





I know im a confusing individual even at the best of times.

Bobguy117
25th Mar 2013, 22:09
My bad my bad it was the pronouns that got me. Those infernal pronouns... I suppose that saying it that way, yes you're right. Ventus' presence guaranteed Sora's ability to wield a keyblade. However, Sora can wield a keyblade without Ventus, too, due to the strength of his own heart. Ventus' heart is what allows Sora to wield two keyblades: Ven's and his own.


And yes Master is a title, I don't really understand the purpose of the title just yet, though I think it just allows one to perform the Rite of Inheritance.


But being a Light is also a title. Just because Sora is a protagonist doesn't mean he is going to be one of the Lights. He could also be a Darkness as Xehanort planned, or he could not be affiliated with either group. All three are definite possibilities, I'm just hoping for one of the latter two.

Silverwing
26th Mar 2013, 04:43
Oh yea he can more then deffinantly weild a keyblade without Ven, I wont argue that. If ven were to leave back to his own body. As said Ven's presence within Sora gave him the ability to weild a keyblade, much like a Keyblade Inheritance Ceremony, without the formalities. And he was chosen because of his heart and power he gaines from his friends.


Um... even i will admit i am at a loss as to what the title grants other then that you are recognized as a full fledged master of the keyblade. Remember Terra never got the title but he still performed the ceremony with Riku. So what all the title grants has yet to be seen.


I would think it is more then that, but im throwing my money in with him being a light along with the 6 others i have mentioned. I will hold open the option that he will be taken by the darkness but only for a short while.

Bobguy117
26th Mar 2013, 05:17
Well Master Xehanort named Terra Master, so I consider that to be just as good as Master Eraqus naming him Master. Though I have to strongly disagree, Sora would have been able to take the Kingdom Key from Riku whether or not Ventus was in his heart. Sora's heart is just that strong.

Silverwing
26th Mar 2013, 06:11
Actually Xehanort only said that to get on Terra to like him and such, Xehanort naming him a master actualy meant nothing and didnt count.


"The Keyblade Bequeathing can only be performed by a Keyblade Master, but we see Terra performing this rite with Riku. Does this mean we can consider Terra a Keyblade Master?


No. Terra was not awarded that title by his Master, Eraqus, so no matter how Master Xehanort flatters him he is not a Keyblade Master. But that&rsquo;s just a matter of whether or not he&rsquo;s achieved the official title. Even Eraqus recognized that Terra possessed suitable power to be a Master, which is why he was able to perform the rite for Riku."



In the first game when the islands are being consumed by darkness. Riku fell into darkness and the keyblade passed him over and went to Sora. This had been restated a few times throughout the series. It was sora's heart and light (and his strength from his friends) that guided it to him as Riku called the keyblade to the islands during the storm.


"About Riku being the rightful owner of the Keyblade&mdash;why is it that Sora had the Keyblade first?


That part is also a bit vague. In the Destiny Islands when Riku is swallowed by the darkness, there&rsquo;s a sparkle of light, and next comes the scene where Sora first gets the Keyblade, right? In my setting, the darkness wrapping itself around those two is the darkness of Riku&rsquo;s heart. At the moment when Sora enters that darkness, the light you can see is the light of the heart. Sora, trying to help Riku, struggling in the darkness, touches that light and temporarily the Keyblade goes to Sora."


That temporary possession turned to perminant though during the events at the Hollow Bastion

Bobguy117
26th Mar 2013, 06:17
Where'd you get those quotes? And okay so Terra is a Master, just not on paper and Sora took Riku's Keyblade using the strength of his own heart, Ventus had nothing to do with it. Excellent quotes.

Silverwing
26th Mar 2013, 07:42
The Namura Interviews from the Kingdom Hearts Ultimania.


Yup and Yup.

edward.busch.18
26th Mar 2013, 08:59
Well yeah the kingdom key WAS riku's thats how he opened the door in the cave.... Thats how riku grabbed it with his first meeting with Sora outside of destiny Islands...and how he reclaimed it in Hollow Bastion.... Yes it was just words that Xehanort used to name Terra a master...


but i cant shake the feeling Sora did too much and too much is on his shoulders.... I also cant shake the feeling that to Save those needing help (Roxas, Ven, Xion, Namine) That to get them out of his heart something bad will happen to Sora to the point that those he rescued will have to rescue him

Bobguy117
26th Mar 2013, 09:29
Yes exactly!

edward.busch.18
26th Mar 2013, 11:25
And if Sora happens into darkness becuase he saved all them well....for some reason i wouldnt be surprised....figure with all those Light based hearts inside Sora Since Roxas and Xion devolped thier own and of course Ven...they would help hold darkness at bay like Ven's armour did in 3D...but when thier "saved" im thinking something bad gonna happen

Ryutim
26th Mar 2013, 19:42
Yeah, I agree with you there. Roxas, Xion, and Ven all need to come back to life at some point, and without a keyblade of heart to release them from Sora's body (although true keyblade masters can use their own keyblades, regardless of what type they happen to be), I think it makes sense that something bad is gonna happen (either because Sora loses the protection around his heart when the others are released, or because some accident happens that drags Sora into darkness, releasing the others as a side effect/result.), probably when Sora goes to wake up Ven in castle oblivion. I wonder, y'know how we played as Roxas first in KH2, and then switched to Sora without losing any levels or anything? Maybe they'll do the same when Sora get's taken over by darkness or whatever, having Roxas take Sora's place until they bring him back.

edward.busch.18
26th Mar 2013, 22:25
kinda what im saying... Ya just cant rip out hearts without being some consenquence.....Sora's heart had someone extra with him since Birth how do you think he is gonna fair when he is finally alone?

Silverwing
26th Mar 2013, 23:23
Id say between Ansems research data that Riku retrived along with Sora and Rikus new found power to wake those in sleep.... Seperating Ven from Sora will be simple.... not to mention Keyblade Masters (and those who are recognized to have the power of a master like Terra and Sora), are able to take a heart from a being with little issue as shown when Terra was forced to take Aurora's heart

Bobguy117
27th Mar 2013, 00:27
I had completely forgotten about that scene with Terra. But can you only extract one heart at once? When Sora removed Kairi's heart, he removed his own as well.

Silverwing
27th Mar 2013, 00:38
yup he did and Ven's too (Which found its way to Roxas), with the heart keyblade which is also stated to have been special in the fact it was made from the hearts of six of the princesses. Which is probably why he became a heartless... on top of not really knowig what he was doing either.. So likely this time around he wont get those bad side effects of releasing Ven's heart.





But Ven is different from the others, in the fact he has an actual body outside of Sora. This would make getting him back in the game easiest of them all.

Bobguy117
27th Mar 2013, 03:34
Ven's heart actually just stayed in Sora's body, creating Roxas. And he became a heartless because anybody who loses their heart to the darkness turns into a heartless, Ven didn't because his heart is pure light, just like Kairi's heart, which is why both of their bodies didn't reanimate as nobodies and their hearts didn't spawn heartless. Though I would have to disagree with that last statement, seeing as Roxas is Sora's body with Ven's heart, it would be very difficult for both Ven and Roxas to exist at the same time.

edward.busch.18
27th Mar 2013, 06:16
no not entirely Roxas had the fractured heart of Ven BUT was the Nobody of Sora whilst Any normal nobody would have to slowly devolpe a heart Roxas had a fractured heart already thus influence his appearence.....But Roxas would devolpe his own heart in time too while Ven's heart was still broken...

Bobguy117
27th Mar 2013, 10:20
That actually makes a lot of sense, thank you for that.

edward.busch.18
27th Mar 2013, 10:31
YEAH my head hurts now from all the plot i had to dig though

Silverwing
27th Mar 2013, 17:33
Heres the full down load.


Sora's Body and Spirit went to NAmine, while she was his body and will she was created from the force of Kairi loosing her heart. Making her Kairi's Nobody.


Vens Heart went to a new body created in the images of Ven and Sora, making Roxas. His creation came from when Sora lost his heart to darkness, making him Sora's Nobody.


Sora's heart turned into a heartless.


which is what i said originally... and you said it didnt happen... yet when Edward said essentially the same thing you agreed with him...





Now for the fact when they go to bring Ven back they will have Ansems research data, a full fledged keyblade master (likely Aqua), a true keyblade, the powers to awaken those lost in sleep, and Ven's physical Body.


Roxas, Namine (who rests within Kairi and not Sora), and Xion dont have any phyiscal bodies anymore.

edward.busch.18
27th Mar 2013, 17:54
Your over reaching it why he didnt agree i wouldnt.... Sora's body and spirit stayed with Roxas BUT Naminie resulted from Kairi's heart but was given form from Sora (hence why Roxas and Namine has blonde hair) kinda like a reversal of what Kairi did for Sora when he regained human form from being a heartless.... but its been hinted at after that Sora was a pseudo-heartless kinda like Ansem with a sense of self

edward.busch.18
27th Mar 2013, 17:56
oh and it wont be Aqua to wake Ven it will be Riku, Aqua is needed to find Ven

Silverwing
27th Mar 2013, 19:02
"the powers to awaken those lost in sleep" This was hinting at Riku..... as only Sora and Riku gained that ability... and I whole heartedly doubt Sora is going to be turnin the keyblade on himself again anytime soon.





"Sora's body and spirit stayed with Roxas BUT Naminie resulted from Kairi's heart but was given form from Sora (hence why Roxas and Namine has blonde hair) kinda like a reversal of what Kairi did for Sora when he regained human form from being a heartless.... but its been hinted at after that Sora was a pseudo-heartless kinda like Ansem with a sense of self"


You really make little since there, but essentially agreed with me... so once more..... Sora removed his and Kairi's Heart from his body (Along with Ven's unintentionally). Namine and Roxas were then born, His body and spirit made Namine, because Kairi's body and spirit never left the realm of light. While Ven's heart went off with a copy of Sora's body, creating Roxas.


While Sora became a Heartless, he remained aware of himself because he did it willingly instead of having his heart forcefully taken by a Heartless (Something Xehanort also did to himself, 9 years earlier). And when Kairi returned him to the realm of light, he was still in essence a heartless because the two nobodies were still running around, he just had a brand new body that looked like the original.

edward.busch.18
27th Mar 2013, 19:17
Correction only Riku has the power.... Sora was lost in sleep....and Kairi's spirit went along just her body in a comatose state was left behind otherwise a body+spirit= a nobody......

Silverwing
27th Mar 2013, 19:53
no Sora obtained it as well, he went through the same trials as Riku. Only Riku was deamed master because he went back in to wake sora from his forced sleep by Xehanort.


No actually her spirit stayed with her body....


Body = Form


Soul = Life


Heart = emotions, memories, will, goals, and ambitions





"The soul literally gives the body life, and is the difference between being alive or dead. It is the force that wills the body to live, and drives it to survive."


Kairi's Soul stayed with her when she lost her heart, otherwise she would have been breathing or moving at all. They would have had to put her 6 feet under even when her heart was returned to her. She was comatose because the part that makes the body move, the Heart, was gone.


When a person looses their heart, either through falling to darkness, a heartless, or other means. The body and Soul is left behind and a small chance of the Soul taking control of the body to become a nobody.


So without a body or a soul to use from Kairi because her body and soul never left the realm of Light, her nobody took Sora's which gave her power over the memories of Sora and those connected to him.


So please... tell me im wrong again....

edward.busch.18
27th Mar 2013, 20:29
They are the remaining parts left behind by the heart: the body, giving a Nobody form, and the soul, giving the Nobody life. - KH wiki...... Soul is lifee for the Nobody.......And only Riku Obtained the power unlocking Sora's sleeping keyhole.....

Silverwing
27th Mar 2013, 20:58
-claps- once again thank you for restating what i have... yes the soul is what gives things life, without a soul a being is officially dead..... Kairi was alive during the events of Kingdom Hearts thus she was comatose... if she did not have a soul she would have been labled dead and we would not have seen her again.... as well, I know what makes up a nobody... but that wasnt what were talking about now was it?


They both went to the realm of sleep


they both opened seven keyholes of sleep


upon opening the last they were redirected tothe world that never was. Sora to the Real one, Riku to a dream version. Sora was forced into a sleep and ended into a dream version of the world that never was. Riku fought through and came out to the real one.


Riku reintered the realm of sleep to wake sora


both obtained the power to wake those lost in sleep.


the only difference with them is that Riku went back in to wake sora up which granted him the title KEyblade Master.... that is the only difference... or did you forget the scene were Sora goes back into the sleeping realm again....


So once more... tell me im wrong again.... cause all im seeing from you is these two line responces while i have given plenty of info that is easily out there to be accessed the back up my statements.... that was the first time i actually saw you go out and quote something...





but this matter of the nobodies and such is far to off topic.... the topic of this is the seven keyblade weilders of light who will fight the thirteen seekers of darkness.....


Riku as he was just labled a master, Mickey for he wishes to stop Xehanort, has been fighting him for almost 12 years now, Lea for he just got a keyblade, Kairi because Yen Sid sent Riku to go get her to be trained in the use of a keyblade, Aqua because Mickey and Yen Sid have figured out her location and just need to open the door to light to enter the realm of Darkness, and Ven who has also been located and need Aqua to figure out the path of Castle Oblivion to find the Chamber of Waking.

edward.busch.18
27th Mar 2013, 21:35
ugh serious...Kairi is a princess of light her body will not fade or die absent of her heart with her spirit actually with Sora talking to him as his adventure continues

Silverwing
27th Mar 2013, 21:47
-facepalms-


what the hell are you on.... cause it seems your just skim what im saying


Her heart was in Sora which is why he kept hearing and seeing her throughout his adventures


If her Soul/Spirit left her body. Kairi would have died. PERIOD.


Any human who loses their soul dies.


Soul is what gives the body life.


She is a princess of heart, yes. This means she can't have darkness in her heart, will never have a heartless and her body will forever remain within the realm of light unless she vulenteers to go into the realm of darkness in the expedition to get Aqua back. Her body and soul thus will never be able to make a nobody... ever....


Im done talking to you at this point because you just dont seem to get even half of what im saying. Unless you have something intelligent to contribute to a conversation, im going to just ignore you from now on.

edward.busch.18
27th Mar 2013, 21:57
ugh... your mixing common logic with the in game logic.... the sentance i posted before was for Nobodies... If her spirit remained then Namine would ve assumed control and full memory in Kairi's body..... Her being a princess allows her body to remain without either...get your ears out humble yourself and listen to what i am speaking....


A nobody cannot be with JUST a body they need a spirit a portion of Kairi's spirit went to Namine and return to her at the end of KH2 , the reason neither nobody Roxas or Namine had memories is becuase of thier unique Births ...Roxas was formed with the majority of Ven's heart but Kairi yanked Sora back from the darkness bringing the MAJORITY of his spirit back thus Roxas had no memory of his past life......i dont like the word spirit i'd rather use essence....

Leaferian-379423
27th Mar 2013, 22:41
I'm not going to get too involved in this argument, just want point out that in one of the Secret Ansem Reports it's mentioned that Naminé isn't really a Nobody. She shares many of the same qualities, and is disparagingly referred to as both a Nobody and a witch, but she is technically unique in her existence due to the various circumstances of her 'birth'.

EDIT: Here's a collection of excerpts from the Secret Ansem reports pertaining specifically to this discussion.


SAR #9: She is a "non-being" in the truest sense of the word; having not even become a Nobody and with nowhere left to go, she is but the most fleeting of shadows.
SAR #10: I believe that Naminé was born as a special type of Nobody when Sora attacked himself with the Keyblade, causing his and Kairi's hearts to leave their bodies simultaneously. Naminé emerged as Kairi's Nobody... but the body and soul necessary to exist as a Nobody belonged to Sora.
SAR #12: Naminé is Kairi's Nobody, but came into being via Sora's body and soul.

According to that information Naminé's existence is primarily derived from Sora, with only Kairi's Heart being used.

edward.busch.18
27th Mar 2013, 23:06
well aware of the report... I studied Namine and Roxas quite well...she's a UNIQUE nobody... the TRUE definition that really was never SUPPOSE to exist.......Her Birth from Sora's body but the essence of Kairi born her once Sora stabbed himself with the Keyblade of Hearts freeing Kairi's heart.... two nobodies 2 Full hearts And Ven's fractured heart escaped from Sora.......


Ok so silver lets run it down ... Heartless steals the heart the essence and body left over creates a nobody..... Kairi being a princess of heart could not create a HEARTLESS but her Body remained in the realm of light comatosed as her essence and heart stayed with Sora.....if her essence stayed then Her nobody would have a HOST and she would not be comatose.... but she would have no heart like all nobodies but will eventually grow one

Silverwing
27th Mar 2013, 23:30
... alright.... then lets go at this then... cause i only argue when i know i am right.. and no im not mixing logic...


Kairi's soul never left her body. Why cause she would have died, not even a small portion of it left her.


"The soul literally gives the body life, and is the difference between being alive or dead. It is the force that wills the body to live, and drives it to survive." www.khwiki.net/Soul (http://www.khwiki.net/Soul)


"Unlike the heart, which controls the body, telling it what to do and giving it feelings and emotion, the soul is the energy and life the body uses to carry out the heart's commands. Essentially, the soul is life. Therefore, it is assumed that the soul is the spirit or ghost that leaves the body upon death. If the soul leaves the body, it has no energy or drive to carry out the heart's orders, which ultimately causes the being to die.


When the will is exceptionally strong, the soul can live without both the heart and body, as was the case of Terra's Lingering Will; a suit of Keyblade Armor made animate by Terra's disembodied soul." www.khwiki.net/Soul (http://www.khwiki.net/Soul)


Namine was formed from Sora's Body and Soul and brought into existance from the force of Kairi losing her heart. This makes her Kairi's Nobody using Sora's body and will to live.


"Naminé was born when Sora stabbed himself with Ansem's artificial Keyblade in order to return Kairi's heart to her body. This made Naminé a very odd Nobody, born from Kairi's heart and Sora's body and soul. Kairi's own body never became a Nobody because her heart lacked darkness (since she was one of the Princesses of Heart), so her body and soul were never able to leave the Realm of Light and thus made it seem like Kairi was in a comatose state until she regained her heart." www.khwiki.net/Naminé (http://www.khwiki.net/Naminé)


Roxas is Sora's Nobody, using his body and will as well. Ven's heart having influenced the new look of the body since he was present inside sora at the time.


"As Sora's Nobody, Roxas's facial features closely resemble his, including his bright blue eyes, body build, and spiky hair (though it is not difficult to set them apart in the actual game). In contrast to Sora's brown hair, Roxas's is a golden blond. His hair style also separates them, as the front concentrates the spikes on the right side of his head as if windswept, and the back is smoother and more flaky. He also looks identical to Ventus, due to Ventus's heart having been within Sora's heart when Roxas was created." www.khwiki.net/Roxas (http://www.khwiki.net/Roxas)





Did i leave anything out here? So i will say for a final time..... tell me that i am wrong again.... unless you have something actually worth contributing to it instead of going half cocked at this..... and listen to what? you typing? how about you learn to read.


Also aditional links to read


www.khwiki.net/Body (http://www.khwiki.net/Body) www.khwiki.net/Heart (http://www.khwiki.net/Heart) www.khwiki.net/Nobody (http://www.khwiki.net/Nobody) www.khwiki.net/Heartless (http://www.khwiki.net/Heartless) www.khwiki.net/Sora (http://www.khwiki.net/Sora) www.khwiki.net/Riku (http://www.khwiki.net/Riku) www.khwiki.net/Kairi (http://www.khwiki.net/Kairi) http://www.khwiki.net/Mickey_Mouse www.khwiki.net/Lea (http://www.khwiki.net/Lea) www.khwiki.net/Aqua (http://www.khwiki.net/Aqua) www.khwiki.net/Ventus (http://www.khwiki.net/Ventus) http://www.khwiki.net/True_Organization_XIII http://www.khwiki.net/Another_Guardian_of_Light


kh-info-block.tumblr.com/interviews (http://kh-info-block.tumblr.com/interviews)

Bobguy117
28th Mar 2013, 03:51
Heres the full down load.


Sora's Body and Spirit went to NAmine, while she was his body and will she was created from the force of Kairi loosing her heart. Making her Kairi's Nobody.


Vens Heart went to a new body created in the images of Ven and Sora, making Roxas. His creation came from when Sora lost his heart to darkness, making him Sora's Nobody.


Sora's heart turned into a heartless.


which is what i said originally... and you said it didnt happen... yet when Edward said essentially the same thing you agreed with him...





Now for the fact when they go to bring Ven back they will have Ansems research data, a full fledged keyblade master (likely Aqua), a true keyblade, the powers to awaken those lost in sleep, and Ven's physical Body.


Roxas, Namine (who rests within Kairi and not Sora), and Xion dont have any phyiscal bodies anymore.






I re-read the whole topic, you never actually said any of these things, meaning I would have never had the opportunity to disagree. Now that you have said them, however, I am going to disagree with all of them. I don't believe Namine was made from Sora's body. When Sora released his heart and Kairi's from himself, only two hearts exited him, those two I had just stated. Sora's body faded into the realm of darkness with Ven's heart still inside him, which would eventually take on the name Roxas and be the most masculine character in Kingdom Hearts. The thing that Edward said that I thought made a lot of sense was that even though Roxas had Ven's heart inside him, being a Nobody without a heart of his own, Roxas might be able to develop his own heart like Xemnas said all nobodies eventually do.


I don't, however, disagree with the fact that Sora turned into a heartless. That clearly happened in Hollow Bastion during Kingdom Hearts 1, and yes, even after Kairi's light regained Sora's physical form, he remains a heartless until he reuinites with his "other half," Roxas, so that he may become "a complete person."






"the powers to awaken those lost in sleep" This was hinting at Riku..... as only Sora and Riku gained that ability... and I whole heartedly doubt Sora is going to be turnin the keyblade on himself again anytime soon.





"Sora's body and spirit stayed with Roxas BUT Naminie resulted from Kairi's heart but was given form from Sora (hence why Roxas and Namine has blonde hair) kinda like a reversal of what Kairi did for Sora when he regained human form from being a heartless.... but its been hinted at after that Sora was a pseudo-heartless kinda like Ansem with a sense of self"


You really make little since there, but essentially agreed with me... so once more..... Sora removed his and Kairi's Heart from his body (Along with Ven's unintentionally). Namine and Roxas were then born, His body and spirit made Namine, because Kairi's body and spirit never left the realm of light. While Ven's heart went off with a copy of Sora's body, creating Roxas.


While Sora became a Heartless, he remained aware of himself because he did it willingly instead of having his heart forcefully taken by a Heartless (Something Xehanort also did to himself, 9 years earlier). And when Kairi returned him to the realm of light, he was still in essence a heartless because the two nobodies were still running around, he just had a brand new body that looked like the original.






Correct, both Riku and Sora have the power. But as I said before, Sora's body and spirit went into Roxas, which is what makes Roxas Sora's nobody. It is unknown what gave Namine her body and spirit, as it has never been fully explained. Though I do have a few theories I'll get into later.






Correction only Riku has the power.... Sora was lost in sleep....and Kairi's spirit went along just her body in a comatose state was left behind otherwise a body+spirit= a nobody......






www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnhX2TKO4kY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnhX2TKO4kY)


When Master Yen Sid explains to Riku about his newfound powers to awaken sleeping hearts, his exact words in this video are him being uncertain as to whether or not Riku actually has that power, because he didn't really seal the Seven Keyholes like Sora did, he sealed them in Sora's dream. Yen Sid said "It stands to reason" that he should, because it probably doesn't matter in whose dreams you seal them in. If it were Sora who had to rescue Riku, there would be no question as to whether or not he has that power.






ugh serious...Kairi is a princess of light her body will not fade or die absent of her heart with her spirit actually with Sora talking to him as his adventure continues






No, Silver is correct. As of yet there is no method to remove a spirit from a body in the Universe of kingdom Hearts. And it would be logical to think that doing so would kill the body. Only Kairi's heart was inside of Sora, her body and soul remained together in the realm of light because her heart cannot fall to darkness, leaving her in a comatose state, the same reason why Ven is in his comatose state and the loss of his heart didn't spawn a heartless or nobody.


www.youtube.com/watch?v=At2T2Upl8XY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=At2T2Upl8XY)


In this video at 21:30, Yen Sid explains nobodies to Sora, calling them both an "empty vessel" and a "spirit that goes on," meaning that nobodies retain the bodies and spirits/souls of the somebodies from whom they originate.






... alright.... then lets go at this then... cause i only argue when i know i am right.. and no im not mixing logic...


Kairi's soul never left her body. Why cause she would have died, not even a small portion of it left her.


"The soul literally gives the body life, and is the difference between being alive or dead. It is the force that wills the body to live, and drives it to survive." www.khwiki.net/Soul (http://www.khwiki.net/Soul)


"Unlike the heart, which controls the body, telling it what to do and giving it feelings and emotion, the soul is the energy and life the body uses to carry out the heart's commands. Essentially, the soul is life. Therefore, it is assumed that the soul is the spirit or ghost that leaves the body upon death. If the soul leaves the body, it has no energy or drive to carry out the heart's orders, which ultimately causes the being to die.


When the will is exceptionally strong, the soul can live without both the heart and body, as was the case of Terra's Lingering Will; a suit of Keyblade Armor made animate by Terra's disembodied soul." www.khwiki.net/Soul (http://www.khwiki.net/Soul)


Namine was formed from Sora's Body and Soul and brought into existance from the force of Kairi losing her heart. This makes her Kairi's Nobody using Sora's body and will to live.


"Naminé was born when Sora stabbed himself with Ansem's artificial Keyblade in order to return Kairi's heart to her body. This made Naminé a very odd Nobody, born from Kairi's heart and Sora's body and soul. Kairi's own body never became a Nobody because her heart lacked darkness (since she was one of the Princesses of Heart), so her body and soul were never able to leave the Realm of Light and thus made it seem like Kairi was in a comatose state until she regained her heart." www.khwiki.net/Naminé (http://www.khwiki.net/Naminé)


Roxas is Sora's Nobody, using his body and will as well. Ven's heart having influenced the new look of the body since he was present inside sora at the time.


"As Sora's Nobody, Roxas's facial features closely resemble his, including his bright blue eyes, body build, and spiky hair (though it is not difficult to set them apart in the actual game). In contrast to Sora's brown hair, Roxas's is a golden blond. His hair style also separates them, as the front concentrates the spikes on the right side of his head as if windswept, and the back is smoother and more flaky. He also looks identical to Ventus, due to Ventus's heart having been within Sora's heart when Roxas was created." www.khwiki.net/Roxas (http://www.khwiki.net/Roxas)





Did i leave anything out here? So i will say for a final time..... tell me that i am wrong again.... unless you have something actually worth contributing to it instead of going half cocked at this..... and listen to what? you typing? how about you learn to read.


Also aditional links to read


www.khwiki.net/Body (http://www.khwiki.net/Body) www.khwiki.net/Heart (http://www.khwiki.net/Heart) www.khwiki.net/Nobody (http://www.khwiki.net/Nobody) www.khwiki.net/Heartless (http://www.khwiki.net/Heartless) www.khwiki.net/Sora (http://www.khwiki.net/Sora) www.khwiki.net/Riku (http://www.khwiki.net/Riku) www.khwiki.net/Kairi (http://www.khwiki.net/Kairi) http://www.khwiki.net/Mickey_Mouse www.khwiki.net/Lea (http://www.khwiki.net/Lea) www.khwiki.net/Aqua (http://www.khwiki.net/Aqua) www.khwiki.net/Ventus (http://www.khwiki.net/Ventus) http://www.khwiki.net/True_Organization_XIII http://www.khwiki.net/Another_Guardian_of_Light


kh-info-block.tumblr.com/interviews (http://kh-info-block.tumblr.com/interviews)






First off, let me say this: quoting pages from the Kingdom Hearts wiki is almost as bad as having no quotes to base your arguments off of at all. A lot of the information on there is incorrect or made up. The only true sources for facts in kingdom hearts are direct quotes from the games and also the Kingdom Hearts Ultimania.


First part: Yes exactly. Edward, Silver is correct. Kairi's soul never left her, I exlained why above.


Second part: I don't think so. Namine has never been explained. But Sora's body and soul went into Roxas, and I don't think it could've also gone to Namine. I will explain my Namine theory below.


Third part: Correct. And as Edward suggested much earlier, Roxas was also probably eventually able to form a new heart of his own, meaning he no longer needs Ven's to be himself.


Fourth part: When we're talking about theories, nobody ever gets to claim somebody is right or wrong unless they have direct quotes confirming their theories from a reputable source, (e.g the game, Ultimania, direct quotes from the writing staff/Nomura)





My theory: Okay. So first off, let me say this: by no means am I saying this is how Namine was made, this is only my opinion on the subject. I do believe it hold more merit than a few other theories, but I am not saying that they are definitely wrong, or that mine is definitely right.


Sora: When Sora released his and kairi's heart from inside his body, he had three hearts inside him: His, Kairi's, and Ventus'. Only Kairi's and Sora's were seen exiting his body, meaning that Ventus' stayed in the body even when the body and spirit reanimated as Roxas.


Kairi: Kairi is a princess of light, meaning her heart is unable to succumb to darkness and thusly, unable to turn into a heartless, and thusly again, her body is unable to become a nobody. Seeing as only her heart was confirmed to leave her body, I must assume that her spirit was also with her body while she was in comatose. Especially since she only needed to regain her heart in order to regain consciousness.


Namine: A nobody is made up of the body and spirit of a strong-hearted person who has lost their heart. Sora's body and spirit went to Roxas, and Kairi's body and spirit stayed with Kairi. Meaning that Namine has neither the body nor spirit of either person she originates, making her a very special nobody, if a nobody at all. Her status as Kairi's nobody comes from the fact that she was born from the release of Kairi's heart from Sora, but she doesn't have either his or Kairi's bodies. MY THEORY IS that, taking into account that she has power over Sora's memories, I believe she was given physical form by Sora's memories of Kairi, similar to how Xion was given her physical form and also to how Sora remembered his true form when he was a heartless with the aid of Kairi's light. I believe that upon being released from Sora's body and about to spawn a nobody, Kairi's heart realized that it didn't have a body or a soul to work with, so it created a being out of what Sora remembered Kairi to look like, which would explain how she has such close affiliation with Sora's memories, in particular those of Kairi. Then again that is just my personal theory on the subject. I hope I was able to resolve a little bit of the banter going on here.

Bobguy117
28th Mar 2013, 03:54
I'm not going to get too involved in this argument, just want point out that in one of the Secret Ansem Reports it's mentioned that Naminé isn't really a Nobody. She shares many of the same qualities, and is disparagingly referred to as both a Nobody and a witch, but she is technically unique in her existence due to the various circumstances of her 'birth'.

EDIT: Here's a collection of excerpts from the Secret Ansem reports pertaining specifically to this discussion.


SAR #9: She is a "non-being" in the truest sense of the word; having not even become a Nobody and with nowhere left to go, she is but the most fleeting of shadows.
SAR #10: I believe that Naminé was born as a special type of Nobody when Sora attacked himself with the Keyblade, causing his and Kairi's hearts to leave their bodies simultaneously. Naminé emerged as Kairi's Nobody... but the body and soul necessary to exist as a Nobody belonged to Sora.
SAR #12: Naminé is Kairi's Nobody, but came into being via Sora's body and soul.

According to that information Naminé's existence is primarily derived from Sora, with only Kairi's Heart being used.






These are great excerpts. I'm going to use these as more evidence of everything I said above.

Silverwing
28th Mar 2013, 04:19
"SAR #10: I believe that Naminé was born as a special type of Nobody when Sora attacked himself with the Keyblade, causing his and Kairi's hearts to leave their bodies simultaneously. Naminé emerged as Kairi's Nobody... but the body and soul necessary to exist as a Nobody belonged to Sora.
SAR #12: Naminé is Kairi's Nobody, but came into being via Sora's body and soul."





Point back to what i said about Namine being made from Sora's Body and Soul... and those were from the game.. making the Wiki quote fact...


I never argued the fact Roxas would come to grow his own heart. Mucgh like any other being but Ven's heart did play a part in his initial personality and looks.


But thank you


I use the wiki because at least that one is more organized the its counterpart The Keyhole... and only after stuffing through hours of searches hunting down info to make sure it is factual. It is also there so I dont have to spend hours rehunting every last thing down again. I do watch for things that stand out though... im careful with what info i take from that because i know of the wiki's credibility.

Bobguy117
28th Mar 2013, 06:02
Well ****. Ansem's reports. Official. Though i suppose it's still up for interpretation, for example just before he says what you have quoted in the Tenth Report, he says Naminé.As I have written before, she is a most unusual being.Born of the same process as a Nobody, but lacking virtually all the elements of a Nobody. So I am going to choose to interpret the whole thing as: Namine is unusual because she is lacking the body and soul of a somebody. When it says, "but the body and soul necessary to exist as a Nobody belonged to Sora," I enterpet it as him saying that because she was technically born of Kairi's heart, she could not use Sora's body and soul to form her nobody. And when he says Naminé is Kairi's Nobody, but came into being via Sora's body and soul. "Via" technically means "from" not "as." I think he is saying that she was RELEASED FROM Sora's Body and Soul, not MADE OF it. Again it's all up for interpretation, and even then Ansem could just be plain wrong. I still support my theory until another one that makes more sense to me comes along.

edward.busch.18
28th Mar 2013, 08:36
it couldnt be sora's soul.... How would that produce Namine? it could be mis print in the quote.... What is needed is something of Kairi to make Namine, right? otherwise HOW could they fuse if it was ALL Sora? If Namine is made from Sora's soul and body what is Kairi's nobody?

edward.busch.18
28th Mar 2013, 08:37
Actually the term Will is probly the best word used yet....

Bobguy117
28th Mar 2013, 10:33
Will I believe is a product of the Mind in the Kingdom Hearts Universe, as referenced by how the Lingering Will is the form of Terra's mind resisting Xehanort's control. Though I also think that it's possible that they could be the same. Xehanort talks about Heart, Body, and Mind, whereas Yen Sid talks about Heart, Body, and Spirit.

edward.busch.18
28th Mar 2013, 10:45
well lets get off that subject with a new one cuz unless we can verbally talk i dont think our communications will get though to each other....As for Terra's will.... you think any part of Terra remains with Xehanort while his armor is occupied ? besides his body and heartless of course

Bobguy117
28th Mar 2013, 13:34
I'd like to know where Terranort is right now. Since Ansem and Xemnas have both been defeated (in the past and in the present), then Terranort should respawn somewhere. And also, seeing as Master Xehanort was at Where Nothing Gathers in Kingdom Hearts 3D, with knowledge of all that had transpired in Kingdom Hearts 1 and 2, then I believe it means that the defeat of Ansem and Xemnas also split Terra and Master Xehanort up. Though I'm not entirely sure of the timeline for each of those time-traveling No-Hearts.

edward.busch.18
28th Mar 2013, 13:45
good logic...We saw Xenmas and Ansem again maybe he was split? or perhaps since the time traveling Young Xehanort was collecting the 13 he just brought Xenmas and ansem from the past and Terranort is one of the hooded.....im suspecting Vexen maybe one too along with that guy with the lances fought at Beast's castle in 2...what was his name?

Silverwing
28th Mar 2013, 16:55
I stick to mine with Namine. She is Kairi's from the fact she was born when Kairi lost her heart, but took Sora's body and soul to create the physical shell and life force nessicary to come into being as a nobody. So even so she has sora's body and soul she is still Kairi's nobody and is incomplete without her. The force of loosing her heart was what made her look like Kairi and not Sora too.





Now the new topic


Part of Terra is still within Terra-Xehanort as seen with Xemnas. As he would often go to the Chamber of Repose and talk with Aqua's keyblade armor calling it a friend, and his searching for the chamber of waking where Ven rests. Though that would be about it with him, leaving the rest to be accounted towards Master Xehanort. There might be more Terra working within him but its yet to be seen.


Ansem though is Master Xehanorts heart, and shares most of everything pesides looks with him. His looks come from the fact he hijacked Riku's body, expelled his heart and reshaped his body to look like Terra-Xehanort.


I would suspect that Terra-Xehanort is there as one of the hooded, and when he returned to where he came he was likely at Radiant Garden somewhere. As for why Briag and Isa did return to being.... im waiting on that one as well though i think they did and were taken by Young Xehanort before the others awoke and just kept their nobody names.

edward.busch.18
28th Mar 2013, 17:07
well i knew you'd take one last jab...


It is truthful that Braig's name appeared in the credits but not Xigbar so maybe.... he really did want to weild a keyblade but to do that he needs to have a strong enough heart

Silverwing
28th Mar 2013, 17:49
Well hes got a peice of Xehanort in him thats growin with every passing moment... If Xehanort can weild one then he can too... if not now then by the time of the final battle... All 13 Xehanorts will be able to use a keyblade. Xehanorts Heartless included in that because he is using Riku's body as a medeum to do it.

destruction7
28th Mar 2013, 19:14
According to the ending, I believe there is no "chosen seven". It's just seven lights, they never saidthere were only seven, just that 7 were needed to recreate the x-blade. Also, it didn't say they had to be keyblade wielders. For example, they originally planned to use the 7 princesses of heart as the lights, and only one of them were actually able to use the keyblade.


Therefore, rather than sevenchosen ones, there must be plent of options however only 7 are truly required. There are quite a few options if you look at it that way; sora, riku, Kari, Rosas, axel, xion, terra, Ventus, aqua, Mickey, theprincesses of heart, and maybe even Donald or goofy.


The oLoy way to know is to wait for KH3, I guess...








I´M thinking the same!.

Grimoire
28th Mar 2013, 21:47
[Silverwing]


[General Forum Guidelines (/go/thread/view/139233/29068965/General_Forum_Guidelines)]


[Avoid personal attacks on others. A player&rsquo;s passion for a game can run high, but that isn&rsquo;t license to target others in the heat of an argument.]

destruction7
28th Mar 2013, 22:26
What? i´m agreeing with his comment.


You misunderstood.


Edit: Ops is not me sorry.












Silverwing
29th Mar 2013, 04:55
Roger roger... will work to keep my cool.

Bobguy117
29th Mar 2013, 05:55
I missed the outrage! Well regardless no part of the game ever mentioned a "chosen" seven, but I'd still like to theorize which of the characters will be one of the seven.

Silverwing
29th Mar 2013, 06:14
well, lets hear them. I've already posted mine with sound reasoning behind who would be among the seven. Though given how they kept going on about it, there will only be seven keyblade 'masters' (does not nessicarily mean that they have to hold the title of keyblade master) who will go off against Xehanorts Organization, all of whom will be using keyblades.


Keyblades, X-blade, Kingdom Hearts, Heart of Men, Hearts of Worlds. All seem to be important so why wouldnt this clash of light and darkness use the keyblades?

Bobguy117
29th Mar 2013, 07:11
Seven Lights: King Mickey, Riku, Aqua, Ven, Lea, Roxas, Kairi.


Thirteen Darknesses: Master Xehanort, Xemnas, Ansem, Young Xehanort, Terranort(?), No Heart(?), Braig, Isa, Marluxia(?), Repliku(?), Demyx(?), Vanitas, Sora.


I also reserve the right for Sora and Vanitas to take the place of any of the Seven Lights, should any of them prove totally incompetant (Kairi). Also Xion could be a member of either group. And I have no idea where Namine would fall.


Vanitas is awesome, and according to the light novels he's totally on the path to being a Zuko, especially if I'm right and he and Sora wind up on the same side.






I stand by what I said a while ago.

Silverwing
30th Mar 2013, 06:22
Alright and I will keep to what i said with the seven being Sora, Riku, Kairi, Lea, Mickey, Aqua, and Ven.





Our lists are essentially the same reserved that the only difference being the human or nobody Sora.





If we want to talk about the 13 Seekers of Darkness.


Well i cant refute that Master Xehanort, Young Xehanort, Ansem Seeker of DArkness, Xemnas, Xigbar/Briag, Saix/Isa are all members.


Terra-Xehanort i would place with them as he was nowhere to be seen like Isa and Briag after the nobodies were destroyed. I would suspect he was one of the hooded six.


I would dismiss Demyx and MArluxia since they display none of the traidmark features of a Xehanort that all of them seem to possess, which would be the Amber Eyes and Pointed Ears... while not probably nessicary, I would more keep an eye out for those who possess those features then those who dont. It was shown in BBS by having Xehanorts Heart put into you, those features are instantly gained. Briag showed this between his appearances in Radiant Garden and the Keyblade Graveyard. Terra did too, though he was infected by the whole thing so he also gained the white hair, and tanned skin of Xehanort too....


I cant say anything against the Riku Replica... as after the events of Castle Oblivion we never see hide nor hair of him again. So... ill remain neutral on him.


No Heart i can say on this much, is like the Lingering Will. And would have nothing inside it much like it.


"The staff originally said that they wanted to make No Heart and Armor of the Master opponents with cutscenes like the Mysterious Figure, but it was rejected in order to not take away from the consistency of the plot. Their strength and abilities are the same as the real ones, but the two in armor are handled entirely as revived data, and exist separately from the original plot." kh-info-block.tumblr.com/tagged/BBSNom2 (http://kh-info-block.tumblr.com/tagged/BBSNom2)


"Our Master instructed us to don armor while traveling between worlds, so that we might shield ourselves from the darkness. But there, in the Lanes Between, I could feel the force of it&mdash;the power&mdash;and from then on, I forwent my armor&rsquo;s &ldquo;protection.&rdquo; I had been told the darkness would devour me, but what terrors could it possibly hold, so long as I found the strength to control it?" Xehanort Report 2 kh-info-block.tumblr.com/tagged/BBSAR (http://kh-info-block.tumblr.com/tagged/BBSAR)


At best, I would imagine if No Heart did exist like Lingering Will, then it would likely be a part of Xehanorts Mind or Soul stayed behind in it. Which isnt want Xehanort would need 13 being with his heart of darkness.


Vanitas.... eh... hes a tricky one.... I would say he deffinantly bares the marks of a Xehanort... but would Master Xehanort take that risk of bringing him into the group... Vanitas was shown to willingly dissobay Xehanort in favor of his own ideas... wanting to kill Ven early on, considering of using Aqua as the other half for the X-blade.


"I'd be going against the Master's orders, but so what? As far as I'm concerned, your job here is done." - As Vanitas Prepairs to kill Ven


"Not bad at all. Congratulations. I'll keep you around." - To Aqua after she bests him in battle, likely showing that she is his backup should Ven not be up to par for becoming the X-blade.


"When Vanitas calls Aqua a &ldquo;back-up&rdquo;, is he talking about raw materials for making a &chi;-blade?


Yes. She was a &ldquo;back-up&rdquo; prepared in case Ventus did not survive the fusion process with Vanitas. Aqua was recognised by Eraqus as a legitimate Keyblade Master who viewed light as absolute, and holds a strong heart of light. So if Ventus were to fail she could have been used as material for the &chi;-blade." kh-info-block.tumblr.com/tagged/BBSNom2 (http://kh-info-block.tumblr.com/tagged/BBSNom2)



He also was not physicaly there in Notre Dame


"What about Vanitas?


Vanitas is different than Xemnas and Ansem; he doesn&rsquo;t necessarily have a physical form. He reacted to Ventus within Sora, so that&rsquo;s how he was visible." kh-info-block.tumblr.com/tagged/DDDint3 (http://kh-info-block.tumblr.com/tagged/DDDint3)


Only way to really know on the last 5 (cause i include Terra-Xehanort among the 6 hooded) and if they are Marluxia, Demyx, Riku Replica, and Vanitas is to wait on the final game of the Dark Seeker Saga. KH3.


Roxas/Sora we can go over later and their placement.

Bobguy117
30th Mar 2013, 06:35
I believe I read somewhere that the thirteen seekers of darkness are all characters we have met before, so I'm just trying to come up with a reasonable list. I don't really see Demyx either, but he is one of the organization members who didn't return in 3D, and one of my favorites. So here's hoping!

Silverwing
30th Mar 2013, 06:50
well in truth.... Demyx, Luxord, Larxene, and Marluxia havent popped up... so any of them could be....


hmm... well if oyu can find out where you read that... let me know ill keep an eye out for that too... I'll be looking though every character present then to see who all holds a likely hood of poping up as a Xehanort. Mickey did seem to know who all 12 where... soI'll do some digging and let you know who all are likely candidates. If there are not any then id say multiple versions of those already presented like Old and Young Xehanort, and Terra-Xehanort, Xemnas, and Ansem.

Bobguy117
30th Mar 2013, 07:17
So far I've only managed to find other people saying that Nomura said that quote, though I haven't managed to find the direct link yet. It's possible it's on a japanese website that I won't be able to find.


Where in the timeline does Young Xehanort come from? I know he's before Riku and Sora leave, he's the child Riku spoke of managing to leave the Destiny Islands. And why is Master Xehanort referred to by Young Xehanort as "My most future self." Did Master Xehanort come from the future?

Silverwing
30th Mar 2013, 07:56
Master Xehanort comes from the islands, far in the past. By the time of BBS i would imagine him to be within his 70s..... that would mean that he left the islands around 60 years before Kingdom Hearts 1... this is an aproxamation based on how old Young Xehanort looks which seems to be around his 20s. And when he said that he was talking about how that he would turn into that 70 year old wrinkled man.

Bobguy117
30th Mar 2013, 08:13
Well yes that's the obvious answer but I'm not so sure.

Silverwing
30th Mar 2013, 08:39
-shrugs-


Its the only answer, he and Eraqus grew up beside each other upon his arrival to the Land of Departure. And time travel has already been stated that a version of you yourself has to be present at the arrival time.... so if Young Xehanort is from a time closer to Kingdom Hearts 1 then that throws the timeline out of order...

edward.busch.18
30th Mar 2013, 10:39
Yeah i have to agree with silver .... young Xehanort refers to the newly recompleted Master Xehanort as his most future self becuase he would be the "NOW" Xehanort as Young xehanort came from the Islands LONG before he left to train to be a keyblade master which happened YEARS before BbS.... Now does this mean the newest game will include time travel since all those 13 had to "go back wence they came?"

Bobguy117
30th Mar 2013, 10:49
But still Xemnas would be the "must future" version of Xehanort.

edward.busch.18
30th Mar 2013, 11:02
To the "PAST" Xehanort he is the MOST FUTURE self....

Silverwing
30th Mar 2013, 16:05
exactly.... and in truth.... Xemnas isnt the "most future" Xehanort as he died during the events of KH2. With Master Xehanort back and alive again, this would make him the "Most Future Self"


Sometimes the best answer is the most obvious or the simplest ones.... there isnt much need to read into it.





And more then likely time travel will be used again in the next game to bring all 13 together. As Young Xehanort is from the distant past, Ansem (in Riku's body) and Xemnas are dead. Briag/Xigbar and Isa/Saix are up in the air.... i cant really tell if they are the nobodies or if they are the humans and they decided to keep their nobody's names.


I know the game has them presented as Xigbar and Saix. But given Lea expected both of them to be back as humans with the others, and Young Xehanorts traveling to gather the 11 other xehanorts.... it could be possible they are Briag and Isa and they were keeping the names they used as nobodies.


Terra-Xehanort is also up in the air but i would presume he was back like the others and one of the hooded six, and still quite dazed from being put back together.

Bobguy117
30th Mar 2013, 16:57
But why is Master Xehanort back and alive again? Wouldn't the destruction of Ansem and Xemnas bring back Terranort not Master Xehanort? And if it split them back up, then where in God's name is Terra?

Silverwing
30th Mar 2013, 17:11
Likely because he was apart of Terra when Apprintice Xehanort (terra-xehanort) rid himself of his heart and became a heartless and nobody. Terra-Xehanort is likely back as he was 9 years ago, as that Xehanort is the origin of both the heartless and nobody. His whereabouts is another question.... as i sugested he was one of the 6 who remained hooded.

Bobguy117
30th Mar 2013, 17:59
No that wouldn't add up. If Master Xehanort is back then Terra would have to be back too, not Terranort.

Silverwing
30th Mar 2013, 18:17
Terra-Xehanort would be as the nobody and heartless who were defeated stemed from his being. Terra has been possessed by Xehanort who has shown that he can posess multiple people at a single time.... So yes Terra-Xehanort would be back along with the original

Silverwing
30th Mar 2013, 18:27
More over, if he was only able to possess a single thing at any time... he woulda vanished as soon as he took over Sora and we would not see Xigbar or Saix alongside Xemnas during KH2. Or Master Xehanort during the climax of BBS as he put a peice of himself inside Briag during that time.

edward.busch.18
31st Mar 2013, 10:58
Im thinking that both Xehanorts original Body and terranort was brought back but Xehanort seperated them again to get two vessals instead of one ....and in KH2 Final Mix... the lingering will of Terra is still in the suit of armour....so more then likly you will face Xenmas, and Ansem then find Terra's will and place him back in his body which needs to be re-completed...whooooo follow this story long enough and you can guess anything!!!

Silverwing
31st Mar 2013, 17:01
This is true, you can guess quite a lot so long as the facts that are already there are taken into account.


But regardless both Master Xehanort and Terra-Xehanort are back... and ill hold to that especially given what Xehanort said "But Sora and another on your list belong to me now." While he claimed Sora, it was before he made him into a Seeker of Darkness. And Xigbar even stated that Lea was not suppose to be there. So that leaves Terra to still be his.


Im not sure what will need to be done with the Lingering Will, Terra's soul could still be in his body while more of a ghost or after image of it is possessing Terra's Armor. I say this on the grounds that Master Xehanort only placed his heart inside Terra, his body and soul vanishing in the process. And we already went over that a Soul was the difference between being alive or dead. It could be considered like a nobody in one since, as the Armor is the Body and the left over of Terra's emotions, will and memories animate it.

edward.busch.18
1st Apr 2013, 08:26
No No NO its already mentioned that ITS TERRA"S WILL.... Im kinda guessing Sora may be taken as soon as he helps the LAST heart out of his.... Ven is actually a heart of pure light.... im guessing that is a major factor why Sora been so good with the darkness....who know? it might've been Ven's voice in Sora's Dive to the heart?


Alot of people say it was Mickey but i dont think he knew Sora

Silverwing
1st Apr 2013, 18:35
Yes it is said to be Terra's Will. Which is controled by the Soul.


Look at it like this. Master Xehanort removes his heart, and sends it flying at Terra, who desperatly and quickly tries to get his armor on to protect himself. Who is also feeling a lot of hate and rage, and probably a million other emotions, towards Xehanort for everything he [Xehanort] has done to him and his friends. Only to fail and be possessed as the Armor appears. Xehanort takes that armor off, and then it comes to life.


What it is, is more then likely the gathering of what he was feeling in those final moments and the last thing on his mind "Stop Xehanort" gathered into that armor. His Lingering Will.


As said Xehanorts Body and Soul vanished when he possessed Terra with his heart. Terra's Actual Soul is still inside his body.





As for Sora... no i highly doubt that.... and if you look at BBS, Sora always had a heart full of light that was ready to help others, that is why he had done well with the darkness. Ven had no part in that.





The voice in the Dive to Heart in KH1


"Mysterious Voice


It&rsquo;s the King calling to Sora here. In the Dive To Heart, the King guides Sora through his dream, explaining the intentions of the adventure. When Sora acquires the Keyblade for the first time after this, and just before passing through the last door of The End of The World, Sora hears a voice reverberate in him that sounds like the King&rsquo;s. It seems so that those around him can&rsquo;t hear this voice, indicating the King&rsquo;s speaking to Sora&rsquo;s heart directly." kh-info-block.tumblr.com/tagged/KH1NIA (http://kh-info-block.tumblr.com/tagged/KH1NIA)


At the time of Kingdom Hearts, which it wasnt originally meant to be a series, it was Mickey speaking to Sora. Now though, with everything else, Namura might change that to Ven guiding Sora come Kingdom Hearts HD 1.5 Remix.

Ryutim
1st Apr 2013, 20:55
The Lingering Will is quite the puzzle, it seems to create a snapshot of the person's intentions/emotions/will, but it doesn't seem to take anything from the person who makes it (Aqua infused her will into her armor in order to save what she thought was Terra, but she doesn't seem to have lost anything [heart, body, soul, or whatever] because of it, and Xemnas still came to it, imo, trying to use it to find out where Aqua hid Ven, so that implies that it can hold some memories as well), however, it doesn't create a perfect copy of the person, or else the lingering will secret boss in KH2 wouldn't have attacked Sora, meaning that it has more to do with the person's intentions and emotions at the moment of it's creation, than it has with the memories and personality of the person who created it (this is assuming that we can take the secret boss as evidence, although I'm not entirely sure we can, since the battles with secret bosses don't always mesh with what is possible in the story, such as fighting Vanitas' remnant in BBS, but since I'm using it as evidence as to the nature of the lingering will, and not as evidence as to what happened in the storyline, I'm gonna go with it anyway). To sum up, I think that the lingering will/armor creations are driven by the emotion and intent of the person who created it, at the time that it was created, and that they don't require the person who created them to give up their heart, body, or soul, and that they really just require the person to infuse the armor with a lot of emotion and will (that is, intent to do something, defeat Xehanort, save Terra, or whatever). The lingering will might also require something special about the armor that is used to create it, like it having to be that kind of special armor that the keyblade wielders use, or maybe it just has to have been used a lot by the person who creates the lingering will, or maybe both, I don't know.

edward.busch.18
2nd Apr 2013, 09:33
well it can be said that Ansem seeker of darkness and Xenmas had no fight agianst Terra right?.....Im thinking the Majority of Terra is in the Armor waiting to set things right.... although Aqua summoned her armor and it was said in KH2 FM that Xigbar heard anther voice you dont know if that is someone else? ...say a time traveling someone....


As for Mickey being the voice who led Sora.... It doesnt add up, Mickey was seeking the Keybarer not leading him.... He had a journey himself to find the Kingdom Key D

Silverwing
2nd Apr 2013, 11:29
What the.... Ansem and Xemnas come from Terra's Body and Soul and Xehanorts Heart..... What you said makes no since about them having to fight him.... Ansem was created from Xehanorts Heart, thus the secondary name Xehanort's Heartless, everything about Ansem came from Xehanort, he reshaped Riku's Body (which he was using as a vessel to allow him to use the Keyblade of Peoples Hearts) to look like his previous body (Aka Apprintice Xehanort). Terra's Body and Soul in the form of Terra-Xehanort became the nobody Xemnas, which is why Xemnas was always talking with Aqua's Armor and searching Ven in the Chamber of Awakening, there could be more traits that Xemnas has from Terra based on his memories, but a lot of his personality came from Xehanort.


I stick by the fact that the Lingering Will is a run off of Terra's emotions, thoughts, and will, at the moment Xehanort forced his heart into Terra's Body.


Aqua's Armor was never animated, she simply used it and her glider to carry Terra out of the Realm of Darkness. Otherwise it would have stood up and started to act on its own like Terra's Armor did. So it is very likely he was talking to someone else in the Chamber of Repose, all we know is that he occassionally heard a voice respond to Xemnas... nothing more.


Hey you want to refute a direct quote from Namura himself about an event in Kingdom Heartes 1. Fine by me.... I provided a link... that was from a Namura interview... So if you want to argue that then go talk with Namura himself.

cmarshall1202
2nd Apr 2013, 11:43
I would like to ask everyone this question. Who are the chosen seven? seven keyblade wielder that is. I double checked and I counted 3 keyblade wielders which are Sora, Riku, and Kairi. So who are the remaining four to battle against the true organization XIII? It's up to you to decide who are the remaining four.

sora


riku


kairi


aqua


terra (hopefully)


ventus


axel

Bobguy117
2nd Apr 2013, 12:13
I don't even know whether or not I believe the Lingering Will is a real thing. When I played as him in Birth by Sleep during the final battle, I thought it was another Subconscious Battle happening inside Terra's mind sort of like Ven's final battle with Vanitas. I know Sora battles him in Kingdom Hearts 2 Final Mix but is that even canon or was it just a way to get people hyped about Birth by Sleep? It could be like the Sephiroth fight in Kingdom Hearts 1 Final Mix that never actually happened.

Silverwing
2nd Apr 2013, 16:55
Id say its real, just not animated by Terra's actual Mind/Soul like some people beleive. Likely to dissipate once Terra is back in control and retrives his armor.


You also fight Sephiroth in the KH 1 us release... you just dont get anything from it other then the satisfaction of kicking that S.O.B's ass. In The final mix version, when you beat him you get a keyblade and a cutscene between him and cloud.

Bobguy117
2nd Apr 2013, 17:09
Yeah I know, but still the fight never happened. Sora, Donald, and Goofy had never heard of Sephiroth when Cloud mentioned him in Kingdom Hearts 2. Something similar could happen with the Lingering Will.

Silverwing
2nd Apr 2013, 17:31
The cutscene where Cloud confronts Sephiroth in KH FM, Sora wasnt even present. While he did fight him as an optional boss (much like the Ice Titan, Phantom, and Kurt Ziza) he likely never got his name to begin with, and as it was only one match in the coliceum I would give it to sora to forget who the man was, especially with everything else going on in that game and having Ansem to deal with.

Bobguy117
2nd Apr 2013, 19:40
Sephiroth also doesn't seem to know Sora either. The fight is totally non-canon in the first game. I really don't think it's up for debate.

Silverwing
2nd Apr 2013, 20:17
Oh.... really.... cause with anyone anything is up for debate.... A fact of the forums... anyone can be a stuborn mule about anything.....


Sephiroth has proven to be only interested in Cloud.... the fight can be considered canon if you look at this.
1. Sora and Sephiroth fought 1 time.
2. They never talked to each other.
3. Around a year has passed.
4. Sora only narrowly grabbed victory from Sephiroth.


As i said before, looking at that, Between sora on the task of stopping ansem and getting his friend back, isnt likely to remember one match in a tournament even if it is a tough one. Sephiroth was mostly there for Cloud, so he wouldnt remember some 14 year old welp who managed to just narrowly snag a victory. As yourself, would you remember some 14 year old kid when you have a bigger fish to deal with?


But overall there is nothing at all in there to claim that the side story for Cloud and Sephiroth canon or not, and it can be debated till the end of time. Over all.... i would place it as canon. given his nature, and the events of the three games he makes some appearance in. (A feather hinting to his presence within Olympus in BBS, His match in Olympus in KH, and his apperance at RAdiant Garden in KH2.) Overall the FF7 characters have their canon within the overarching plot of the Kingdom HEarts series as a subplot.


So stalemate, as nothing is there to either prove or disprove either of us.

edward.busch.18
3rd Apr 2013, 08:10
Well the first game Sephiroth was non canon it was a optional boss added for American release and re-release as Final mix for Japan.... that is for fun...Now it entered the canon of Kingdom hearts In 2 when Cloud was seeking Sephiroth and likewise Seph sought Cloud....But the interview with Nomura notes to take a close look at Sephiroth's Eyes and note when Goofy states "he looks alot like Cloud" ....The interview is hinting that its not the Actual Sephiroth like in Advent Children...but a manifestation of Cloud's darkness.....

edward.busch.18
3rd Apr 2013, 08:11
Well the first game Sephiroth was non canon it was a optional boss added for American release and re-release as Final mix for Japan.... that is for fun...Now it entered the canon of Kingdom hearts In 2 when Cloud was seeking Sephiroth and likewise Seph sought Cloud....But the interview with Nomura notes to take a close look at Sephiroth's Eyes and note when Goofy states "he looks alot like Cloud" ....The interview is hinting that its not the Actual Sephiroth like in Advent Children...but a manifestation of Cloud's darkness.....





Stalemate? amatures Checkmate!

Bobguy117
3rd Apr 2013, 09:39
Right, the fact that Sora and Sephiroth have absolutely no memories of their battle together, and also considering the unusual circumstances of their first battle. The fact that Cloud has to describe Sephiroth's appearance to Sora and the fact that Sephiroth says he has never seen a keyblade before the fight in Kingdom Hearts 2. These are all perfectly logical pieces of evidence to point out the fact that their first fight was not canon. The fight was just put in for fun and probably as a way to gain massive amounts of experience very quickly.

edward.busch.18
3rd Apr 2013, 09:42
AND SO THE GREAT ED HAS SPOKEN!!!! lol

Ryutim
3rd Apr 2013, 16:29
Lol, yeah, I don't count many of the optional bosses as canon either (it doesn't really matter if the battle with the Phantom or Kurt Zisa is canon or not), but that doesn't mean that they don't give legitimate hints about the KH universe. For instance, the fight with Vanitas' remnant couldn't have happened, the storyline just doesn't mesh with it, but it does imply that Vanitas isn't really gone, which was my first hint that Vanitas might be one of Xehanort's 13 darknesses, despite the fact that we beat him in BBS, so just because the battle didn't actually happen, story-wise, doesn't mean that it has no meaning what-so-ever.

Medicham
3rd Apr 2013, 16:58
Kingdom Hearts 3D was a great game. It just needed a more clear story. I'm still confused by what happened and I beat the game. Axel and Older Riku are my favorite Keyblade wielders.

edward.busch.18
4th Apr 2013, 11:10
I find the story would be confusing if you got lost along the way.... but if you keep up the plot alone is worth the price of admission......then the chacter devolpment is incredible! (cept' for Kairi shes getting lost in the story)

Bobguy117
4th Apr 2013, 20:43
The story is confusing in that most things aren't really explained with enough detail that they make perfect sense.

edward.busch.18
5th Apr 2013, 11:04
AH! Writers freedom... the ability to explain just enough of the story yet have certain freedoms to switch a few things around mid-way....Sure they could've explained everything outright but then it's set in stone and the direction of the story would be too easy to figure out

Ryutim
5th Apr 2013, 20:51
Yeah, and we can't have that, this is Kingdom Hearts after all, the plot twists and totally out of the blue surprizes are part of what makes the game so much fun.

edward.busch.18
9th Apr 2013, 12:54
yeah who in thier right mind would think King Triton from alantica Knows about the Keyblade?..... His warning to Sora was completly outta the blue......well who know what twists we find.....

Ryutim
11th Apr 2013, 00:16
Yeah, that's one of the biggest mysteries in KH, although not an overtly important one (it might be important, or it might mean nothing, but honestly, would SE let a big connection like that be completely pointless?), King Triton knows about the keyblade, but we have no idea how he knows about it. He might have been warned about it by his father or something, or he might have seen the damage done by the keyblade war, we've got a lot of information about most of the other confusing questions that have come up in the KH series, so we've been able to make educated guesses about them, but we've got no information what-so-ever when it comes to King Triton's connection to the keyblade.