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View Full Version : Subjugation...give me a break



Darz
11th Jun 2005, 07:00
Tonight I was unpleasantly surprised to find that after my conquest of Russia's capital, St. Petersburg, I could do absolutely nothing with it. As many of you probably have found out by now, the 5 empire's capitals(well, 4 excluding your own) cannot be fully annexed, they are subjugated. What this means is that the capital, along with every territory the empire still had in control while its capital was taken over, is completely useless. No resources, no money, no constructing buildings.

I understand in the context of the game why this "subjugation" occurs. The devs probably put it in place so that an empire could not become overly powerful if they ended up conquering another empire's capital since the capitals offer a lot more resources than other conquerable countries. What I don't understand is why all the other territories that the conquered empire once held are now in the same status as the subjugated capital. I can't think up a good reason, gameplay-wise, why this is.

The whole thing isn't very realistic anyways. For example, why is it that Berlin cannot be annexed, while Poland can. Are the people in each country that different? When Berlin is conquered why don't the citizens produce anything that helps their new rulers out while on the other hand, the people in Poland can be very helpful to the new rulers? If the people Berlin don't want to help, then why is it not possible for the new rulers to persuade them to help?...

Another distressing element to this whole thing is, is that it isn't even mentioned in the physical manual. It would have been nice, and probably many of people would agree, to have some kind of documentation of "subjugation" other than in the pdf file manual. I didn't particularly enjoy it when I discovered that there is no other point to conquering an empire's capital, other than to enjoy the possibility of not being attacked by that empire again.

Anyways, just wanted to hear other people's thoughts on this...and if any of you have also been unpleasantly surprised. ;)

Gelatinous Cube
11th Jun 2005, 07:33
It's actually a good feature for gameplay. It lends itself to some very interesting developments in the late game sometimes.

Common-Sense or Historical-wise, it makes no sense whatsoever. But i'll take gameplay over History in this particular matter.

Lt. Kyuzo
11th Jun 2005, 11:52
I only found out about this about 20 mins ago while trying to crush france and it seems that the best idea is to place troops in all of there other territory and then pay for peace with them so you end up with that land.

5/77 Armd
11th Jun 2005, 14:28
I've found this to be annoying as well, I understand why they did it; but I think only the capital territory should become subjugated. Reason: this allows these countries to come back into the game if your occupying force leaves. What I thoroughly dislike is the fact that the other territories that were formerly held by the empire are completely useless.

Austria conquered Russia, whom I liberated only to have them back stab me and form a coalition against me. So, I wiped the floor with Russia (which only had its capital territory left). Then invaded Austria who had the former Russian territories, Moldavia and Ottoman Empire. I liberated them (everyone loves me) and subjugated the Austrians. All his territory, including a neutral Egyptian territory he acquired in peace demands, don't do anything for me! I am now going walk out of Austria, let him resurrect himself, and destroy him again, this time I will try out peace demands (I've never done that, I don't even know if I can) to take over his vast territories. Did I say this feature annoys me?

Fasciti
11th Jun 2005, 17:13
I hate it too it really sucks.

5/77 Armd
11th Jun 2005, 18:57
I noticed that when I went to war with France, I had some units on one of his national territories (Champaign) and he requested peace which I accepted. Champaign became mine.

Then I walked off of Austria's capital to end the subjugation which I spoke of above. Then I moved a large force back into his capital to siege it. I also walked armies onto all his other territories thinking that when peace arrives, those territories would become mine like what happened with France.

Nope; not only that, but that little territory of Cyrenaica (which went back to Austria after subjugation ended) got invaded by France. Guess what? Somehow Cyrenaica became French and when the siege ended and subjugation was re-imposed on Austria, I didn't get any of those territories!!! How come France did?

I'm not even able to negotiate a peace with Austria. I was going to let him get his independance in exchange for territory, but that didn't happen. For some reason it seems that the AI countries get a lot more diplomacy options than a human player--not fair....

beware_of_the_snowman
17th Jun 2005, 15:35
not sure i understand the problem, but if you mean what i think you mean then it is possible to conquer all the subjugated territories except the capital, just subjugate the capital which will subjugate the other territories too, then place a unit on each of the other territories and pull out of the capital. next turn, when their empire is back in control of its affairs, keep your units on their other territories and then negotiate peace. the subjugated territories are then fully annexed. sorry if this wasnt what you meant... annexation has always gone smoothly for me

5/77 Armd
17th Jun 2005, 16:17
Thanks for the reply, this thread's been inactive for several days and I finally figured this out on my own. I found out that you can't request peace when you have an army besieging the capital. As soon as I move my army out of the capital, I can request peace and annex all his territories I have an army on.

The subjugation feature does not bother me much anymore now that I've figured out how to annex the other territories. The only (somewhat) annoying part is I have to go to war with them twice. First to take all his land, and second to subjugate them.

giskard
17th Jun 2005, 16:52
What snowman said is what I do...mostly.

Though you dont even need to attack the capital, just have 1 unit in each region then make peace. Im my current game I own most of europe but left all but the prussian capital alone.

Giskard

WindOfChange
27th Jun 2005, 09:07
Maybe in the next one, the developers can allow forceful marriages or treaties to enforce Empire's capital into be satellite states. Thus one can benefit the gains of the territories until a revolution or rebellion successful changes the occupied regime.

deadboy10
27th Jun 2005, 09:46
I find it stupid too...
Paris is a good stronghold , but i would like to man hanover with the troops positioned there..
I find that it would take 10-5 years or so to make paris ( or the other lands of empires ) fully under your controll.
Till then you need a bit of troops positioned there and kill revolutions..

Cpt.HooK
27th Jun 2005, 11:42
I think this is a good feature in the game you don't need many troops stationed there to stop a rebellion after you have control,and you can liberate the ones held by your enemies later on in the game and make them fight for you ;)
It is a bummer not being able to collect resouces from capitals and build there so its not much point in occupying a capital unless you need too.
In my current game i have let Russia occupy Prussia and Austria everytime Russia declares war i liberate both of them just for the hell of it.

PrinceMyshkin
27th Jun 2005, 11:52
i've found that you're better of leaving those cap's intact. if you look at the economic screen, you get NO cash for trade with them while they are subjugated.

they make harmless freinds or enemies and can be taken out at the very end of the game...

Sieur_Drewry
27th Jun 2005, 13:12
I love this system, because I can get about 10 marshals this way. I just leave the territory, wait for them to build a small army, go backin, leave it, go back in, over and over until my commanders are marshall.