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Anakin Skywalker
8th Jun 2005, 13:26
I don't know if you guys have this problem (or see it as a problem), but I personally think the AI's armies consist of too much artillery! Sometimes I'm confronted with 5 artillery units, that means 15 cannons in a battle, and nothing more, no infantry, no cavalry. This sucks! Especially the British like to make such stupid artillery-armies. This is neither good for the gameplay, nor historically correct!

jaywalker2309
8th Jun 2005, 13:49
I don't know if you guys have this problem (or see it as a problem), but I personally think the AI's armies consist of too much artillery! Sometimes I'm confronted with 5 artillery units, that means 15 cannons in a battle, and nothing more, no infantry, no cavalry. This sucks! Especially the British like to make such stupid artillery-armies. This is neither good for the gameplay, nor historically correct!

This in singleplayer?

Element-UK
8th Jun 2005, 14:07
Yep, it can happen suprisingly often.

Eruan
8th Jun 2005, 15:06
Yeah that's true, in fact i fought generals with only guns before :confused: some careful manoeuvering with the cavalry hussars and job done. But yeah, totally useless I agree :p

jaywalker2309
8th Jun 2005, 15:12
Yeah that's true, in fact i fought generals with only guns before :confused: some careful manoeuvering with the cavalry hussars and job done. But yeah, totally useless I agree :p

Did you instigate the fight in the campaign map or did they attack you?

Eruan
8th Jun 2005, 15:23
They only do that when I attack :D speaking of which, it reminds me, on Piedmont, which is like THE best place to defend, the computer makes some really useless attacks, like 200 men against 700 of mine atop the hill :D it's pathetic, and every time he runs away, just to make another such useless attack, without ever firing a round :confused: just a waste of time really, can't let the computer handle battles, coz often it doesn't do it very well :mad:

jaywalker2309
8th Jun 2005, 15:31
They only do that when I attack :D speaking of which, it reminds me, on Piedmont, which is like THE best place to defend, the computer makes some really useless attacks, like 200 men against 700 of mine atop the hill :D it's pathetic, and every time he runs away, just to make another such useless attack, without ever firing a round :confused: just a waste of time really, can't let the computer handle battles, coz often it doesn't do it very well :mad:

What i mean is do they attack you in the campaign map ie asking you for a fight in the 3d world, or is it you attacking an area only to find its got cannons in it?

Eruan
8th Jun 2005, 15:36
I attack them to find just guns, but i can also preview that anyway in the map view, which commander has which units ;) sometimes they only have guns, with no infantry or cavalry support, which is really easy to beat if you have cavalry yourself :thumbsup:

jaywalker2309
8th Jun 2005, 16:17
I attack them to find just guns, but i can also preview that anyway in the map view, which commander has which units ;) sometimes they only have guns, with no infantry or cavalry support, which is really easy to beat if you have cavalry yourself :thumbsup:

Well maybe the AI is training up units or just lost a battle so is depleted in another area so has moved its army somewhere else :)

Element-UK
8th Jun 2005, 16:28
As Prussia I just took Hanover when the British had 5 howitzers in Denmark. Next round they attacked me when I had 4 Howy's, 2 Hussars and 6 L.Inf. Weird how the AI can seem so good sometimes and ridiculously dumb at others. AI work must be one of the hardest though as I have never seen a game get it bang on right. Just a matter of time maybe as they have come so far to be honest.

Nial
8th Jun 2005, 16:46
Well maybe the AI is training up units or just lost a battle so is depleted in another area so has moved its army somewhere else :)
Don't think so. I find it a common occurance in all my campaigns. For some reason the AI seems to think Arty is the most powerfull unit and produces huge volumes of them. I came to this conclusion because you will find if you auto-calc those battles where the AI has all arty and one rifle unit in all it's corps? The AI will win more than not. Usually in the third ERA all the AI seems to produce is arty and rifleman. I have surveyed all the units on the map before to see if this theory is correct. And I've found it always the same in every campaign. Might need to adust the cannon production ratio with the patch.......Hopefully :)

jaywalker2309
8th Jun 2005, 16:59
Don't think so. I find it a common occurance in all my campaigns. For some reason the AI seems to think Arty is the most powerfull unit and produces huge volumes of them. I came to this conclusion because you will find if you auto-calc those battles where the AI has all arty and one rifle unit in all it's corps? The AI will win more than not. Usually in the third ERA all the AI seems to produce is arty and rifleman. I have surveyed all the units on the map before to see if this theory is correct. And I've found it always the same in every campaign. Might need to adust the cannon production ratio with the patch.......Hopefully :)

*sniffs* so my attempt to PR it away failed :( bugger hehe

Anakin Skywalker
8th Jun 2005, 17:02
By the way, what do you think about the Rome-AI? Let's compare it with the IG-AI. Which is better? :confused:

Nial
8th Jun 2005, 17:04
*sniffs* so my attempt to PR it away failed :( bugger hehe
HEHE............... :)

jaywalker2309
8th Jun 2005, 17:07
By the way, what do you think about the Rome-AI? Let's compare it with the IG-AI. Which is better? :confused:

From watching people playing it its clear to see where the Human player is restricted etc, the CPU always knows where you are and what you are doing. Guess its only way for it to be able to play

Thecrisis5
8th Jun 2005, 18:07
I find the AI in this game better. Somtimes the AI even trys to flank me in this game. In RTW the enemy would just charge arcoss and an open field and then strait into you. :thumbsup:

wolfetone
8th Jun 2005, 19:17
I agree about the cannon overproduction. Almost every campaign I've played I run into nothing but artillery armies. :mad: Not bad when I have a fairly strong cavalry force but makes playing kinda dull. For a while I began letting the game just auto-calc the battle but at times came up with horrific losses that made absolutely no sense. :confused:

Anyhoo, I hope that is one thing that is fixed in the patch.

Queeg
8th Jun 2005, 20:40
I think the AI majors build fairly well-balanced armies. But I have seen the AI minors focus too much on artillery, at least in the early game.

Here's what I think is happening: the AI minors have fairly limited resources but are programmed to build decent-sized armies to keep from being pushovers. The AI can't quickly build all the different troops improvements, so it builds a foundry and starts cranking out cannons. The AI needs to be tweaked to build all the basic improvments and given more start-up troops or resources, as necessary, to stay alive while they are doing it.

Nial
8th Jun 2005, 20:59
I think the AI majors build fairly well-balanced armies. But I have seen the AI minors focus too much on artillery, at least in the early game.

Here's what I think is happening: the AI minors have fairly limited resources but are programmed to build decent-sized armies to keep from being pushovers. The AI can't quickly build all the different troops improvements, so it builds a foundry and starts cranking out cannons. The AI needs to be tweaked to build all the basic improvments and given more start-up troops or resources, as necessary, to stay alive while they are doing it.

Disagree.
At one time in Era 3 Austria had 4 lt inf units and 15 cannon. England had 6 lt. inf. and 10 cannon. Russia had 3 lt. inf. 1 horse and over 12 cannon. Those numbers are indicative of a production imbalance. This is not an isolated incident but the norm in my experience.

Queeg
8th Jun 2005, 21:16
I've honestly never seen that - or really anything even close to that. I went back to my game in progress (Era 3, Medium) and checked around the map. All the AI armies (only majors are left) are well-balanced.

What level are you playing? Also, are the units you are seeing units built by the major or units inherited from a minor?

Queeg
8th Jun 2005, 21:40
I went back and checked my current game again. Here are the stats for Austria (not counting garrisoned units that I can't see):

Infantry = 39 (17 light, 22 heavy)
Cavalry = 10
Artillery = 14

About half the light infantry and artillery were built by minors (or at least had minor flags).

I have noticed that the AI builds less cavalry than the human player could, though the ratios are reasonably realistic historically. I try to exercise some self-restraint in building cavalry for that reason.

Nial
8th Jun 2005, 21:43
Era 3 on hard. Like I said those numbers are consistant with all the hard campaigns I've played. On my 5th or 6th hard campaign now.

I suppose they could be inherited. But then you would think there would be other units that they had produced besides the cannon and the lt. inf. in their OOB.
Not at home so I can't check for minor flags on the arty

Nial
8th Jun 2005, 21:51
(Queeg said) "The AI needs to be tweaked to build all the basic improvments and given more start-up troops or resources, as necessary, to stay alive while they are doing it."

Totaly agree

Webrider
10th Jun 2005, 00:25
A problem with that .. is the AI would think it so much stronger then the human it would declare war... It seems to like to do that if you show weakness....

Ie...they smell blood in the water... if you try to save too much money and build improvments rather then army they will certainly attack... you can check this somewhat by keeping a little parity of forces.

Longstreet63
12th Jun 2005, 21:52
I get those cannon-heavy armies all the time, too. And the AI does attack with them. I had two companies of hussars hit by a four army assault that included 3 light infantry and 11 howitzer batteries.

Apparently, the AI does weight the value of arty very highly, for as has been noted, auto-resolving against such an army would result in defeat for me with minimal damage to the grand battery.

One reason may be that the AI is very good with howitzers. he knows the exact range to the pixel, can estimate where your units will be exactly and has no moral problem with blasting the melee of your hussars and his light infantry with a couple of dozen tubes.

I hate these engagements because the only thing you can do is charge in line the instant he opens fire. Anyone who stands still will be blasted instantly. anyone in column will lose dozens to 'overs'. Anyone in melee will be targeted.

Ironically, a couple lines of hussars is exactly the prescription for a grand battery attack. More than that just means more casualties.

The minors are certainly worse. I often find that their armies consist of six howitzers and three light infantry. I hate minor light infantry and I hate howitzers.

Damned things are ahistorical, anyway. Field shell guns were rare until the 1830's. Six-pounders should be the base for all nations.

LS

Queeg
12th Jun 2005, 22:44
It's strange how people have such different experiences. I'm in the middle of a campaign as Prussia. I've fought probably 15 battles, against Austria, Russia, Saxony, Moldavia, Poland. I've never seen more than two artillery units. I have seen plenty of infantry and cavalry.

In my earlier game as Great Britain, I do recall annexing Denmark and being suprised to inherit seven howitzer units. But that's the only time I've seen what you guys are describing.

I'm wondering if we can identify any particular nations as culprits. Maybe the AI unit-build preference is messed up for some nations but not for others.

Nial
13th Jun 2005, 15:00
It's strange how people have such different experiences. I'm in the middle of a campaign as Prussia. I've fought probably 15 battles, against Austria, Russia, Saxony, Moldavia, Poland. I've never seen more than two artillery units. I have seen plenty of infantry and cavalry.

In my earlier game as Great Britain, I do recall annexing Denmark and being suprised to inherit seven howitzer units. But that's the only time I've seen what you guys are describing.

I'm wondering if we can identify any particular nations as culprits. Maybe the AI unit-build preference is messed up for some nations but not for others.

It's cracking me up. Until we started this thread, I had rarely seen the AI produce Grenediers or any infantry better than line. Now all of a sudden their producing it all over the place. Average make up of enemy OOB is still hovering at about 50% arty though in that game.

Strumm
13th Jun 2005, 15:54
Maybe the AI's War Production is based on (A x B) = C

Where:
A = what it has most resources of
B = the makeup of the armies it is most likely to have to fight
C = what it can build most of (from A) in the shortest time to cause most damage (to B)

Just a thought.