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Trinity34
3rd Jun 2005, 17:49
Article + pictures, June 2005 edition.

http://img161.echo.cx/img161/1347/playp18a2ef.th.jpg (http://img161.echo.cx/my.php?image=playp18a2ef.jpg) http://img161.echo.cx/img161/1060/playp19a7jg.th.jpg (http://img161.echo.cx/my.php?image=playp19a7jg.jpg) http://img161.echo.cx/img161/1779/playp20a0gq.th.jpg (http://img161.echo.cx/my.php?image=playp20a0gq.jpg)

Read the other 7 pages here (http://forum.tombraidercommunity.com/index.php?showtopic=566)

Johnny
3rd Jun 2005, 18:41
Thanx, Trinity. It was an interesting read. :)

midroth
3rd Jun 2005, 20:07
"... You need no longer to be perfectly lined up to get her to grab onto a surface, and she is smart enough to not fall off ledges if you take a false step. ..."

Sounds for me: "Just jump in the direction and you have it!", no fiddle out the jump is necessary (anymore). An "automatic" game engine. You start the game, control(?) the direction and the engine is doing all the rest for you.

If so: Sorry CD, but a lot of us (if not the most) are adults (30+). We don't need to ask dad for the money to buy the game. We are able to fiddle out the jump/s. I makes fun! What do you think will come out, if you not see, or ignore this? Just a beautiful kiddy game more? Or financial consequences?

If not: Simple show me the finger...!


The sentence I've found here (http://forum.tombraidercommunity.com/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=524), left column.


Special thanks to Trinity34 for the scans.

Tipsko
3rd Jun 2005, 21:31
Thanks for the scans :)


"... You need no longer to be perfectly lined up to get her to grab onto a surface, and she is smart enough to not fall off ledges if you take a false step. ..."


wasn't it one of the funnest things in tomb raider to calculate a jump? oh that one can be done be done by tapping backwarth once, or, that must be a running jump?

please, don't screw up with the jumps, CD!

the other things look good so far :)

LaraAngelOfDarkness
3rd Jun 2005, 22:34
Thanks for the scans! It was a really great read, now I really can't wait for this game. On page 22, I really like that dress they put her in.............especially with the guns strapped to her legs :D .

Trinity34
4th Jun 2005, 00:36
Do you think Lara would actually wear something like that?

LaraAngelOfDarkness
4th Jun 2005, 05:11
Do you think Lara would actually wear something like that?

Obviously Toby Gard thinks she would :D . I wonder why she would be wearing that? Oh well, I've always wanted to play as Lara in a fancy dress(though not one that is similar to that of Rayne's in Bloodrayne 2).


http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2004/reviews/919213_20041217_screen001.jpg

Perhaps she is attending another Opera? Maybe she will meet Larson again! Oh how I love that redneck cowboy and I'm sure Lara is secretly in love with him as well. ;) Most likely though it is something she is wearing to a party. Maybe she wears it in Malaysia, where her enemy is having a party and where he(or she) is keeping the artifact. Lara sneaks in then tries to steal it. Oh, this game is getting exciting just thinking about the possiblities!

Sophia Leigh
4th Jun 2005, 11:04
"...

If so: Sorry CD, but a lot of us (if not the most) are adults (30+). We don't need to ask dad for the money to buy the game.



What? Like many others here I haven't reached 30 yet; yet I am a wife, mother and have a successful career - do you consider me a child?

midroth
4th Jun 2005, 11:38
Nope. I wrote: A lot of us, not all.

Sophia Leigh
4th Jun 2005, 11:49
I understand that you are saying "a lot of us are adults" not all; but you describe adults as being people who are over 30. Sorry, I don't mean to be picky, I just took a little offence to it since I am under 30 and am a self-sufficient adult who has no need to ask their Dad for the money.... ;)

midroth
4th Jun 2005, 13:40
Statistic thing: A very big group of TR players are 30+. This 30+ buys the game with own money. From a commercial view they are importand for Eidos. If this group is breaking in, Eidos will feel this and not less! If now the game has a "to active engine" which will play to much for you (jumps for example), the engine shows good programers, but will take/reducing the (fiddle)fun.
We tried e.g. 5 jumps or more before we got it, our "reward" was success, a good feeling. If now this kind of reward is taken away...a fun/good feeling is gone. The engine should not replace us! This fiddle out was/is our action.
Action in TR means not more shooting. Shooting games we find tons on the market. Action in TR is/was run, climp, jump, creep, puzzle, collect, search, explore, swim, dive, grab, think, investigate, sometimes drive, less/not sooo many shootings/combat and the moments of doing nothing, just enjoy.
If this now will be done by an engine in the most parts, where is my part, my reason to play/buy it? Press a button to see how good the engine is doing it for me? Reduced to an inactive player?
What's next? TR automatic? Press start ... for what?
All I want to say is: CD careful, not so/too many help from an engine, please. You risk her salesrate/her "live". We -the adults- cannot be dazzled so simply by new moves, tools, action.

John Carter
4th Jun 2005, 15:54
I don't think they're going to make the game play itself or turn it into a mindless point-and-click fest. What they said was that they would remove elements such as "the fall off the ledge if you walk too close"effect and the grid movement system that always, no matter the situation, made Lara have to take two steps back before a jump. How realistic or fun were any of those things? Not much to me, I let the first three games sit unplayed past the first half a level until the TR4 story made me want to actually figure out how to play, then I went back and played them all.

I think the new system will require a new set of skills that model more realistically Lara's spectacularly-unlikely gymnastic movements, and that it will be more fluid, less mechanistic, but no less challenging, than in the past. That's what the devs say they are going to deliver, at any rate. Guess we'll know when we get hands on a demo. ;)

LaraAngelOfDarkness
4th Jun 2005, 20:57
Statistic thing: A very big group of TR players are 30+. This 30+ buys the game with own money. From a commercial view they are importand for Eidos. If this group is breaking in, Eidos will feel this and not less! If now the game has a "to active engine" which will play to much for you (jumps for example), the engine shows good programers, but will take/reducing the (fiddle)fun.
We tried e.g. 5 jumps or more before we got it, our "reward" was success, a good feeling. If now this kind of reward is taken away...a fun/good feeling is gone. The engine should not replace us! This fiddle out was/is our action.
Action in TR means not more shooting. Shooting games we find tons on the market. Action in TR is/was run, climp, jump, creep, puzzle, collect, search, explore, swim, dive, grab, think, investigate, sometimes drive, less/not sooo many shootings/combat and the moments of doing nothing, just enjoy.
If this now will be done by an engine in the most parts, where is my part, my reason to play/buy it? Press a button to see how good the engine is doing it for me? Reduced to an inactive player?
What's next? TR automatic? Press start ... for what?
All I want to say is: CD careful, not so/too many help from an engine, please. You risk her salesrate/her "live". We -the adults- cannot be dazzled so simply by new moves, tools, action.

I think your worrying over nothing. The game engine isn't going to replace the player, nor are the jumps really "automatic" as you put it. You CAN still miss and fall. Crystal Dynamics has two jobs that are very hard right now, pleasing the old TR fans and those who think TR should have died five years ago(but still might give it a chance if it gets good reviews). Updating the controls is probably CD's most important thing on their development list (besides gameplay and story) as too many people have complained over them throughout the years. As much as you don't want a change, Eidos doesn't really care as all they want is $$$(as sad as that is). To get that money, they have to do all they can to revive this series even if they have to lose old fans to get more newer ones. Same thing happened with Resident Evil 4, many new people bought and loved RE4 including old fans, but there are a few who hate the game for the fact of the change in camera angles and making it a action game(instead of Survival Horror). TR:L is going down a similar path, but the team doing Legends are still keeping main elements from the games. Grand puzzles, elaborate tombs and temples, vehicles, TWO handguns, and the witty humor Lara had pre-AOD(though some of her remarks in AOD were kinda funny, just not as funny as "You might like to mind....the bell" and "happy retirement" lines from TR 3). Also, by more action I doubt the game will become just a shooter. As for the *possible* "automatic grab" in TR:L, maybe it isn't as bad as you think, you may end up loving it. I personally think that the game will be a huge hit and bring many new fans to the series, though i'm sure there will be old fans who can't accept change and sadly depart from playing the series anymore(hope you aren't one of them nor do I hope any TR fan feels the game has been simplified, myself included, as that would truly dissapoint me). I

CatSuit&Ponytail
5th Jun 2005, 10:28
I don't think they're going to make the game play itself or turn it into a mindless point-and-click fest. What they said was that they would remove elements such as "the fall off the ledge if you walk too close"effect and the grid movement system that always, no matter the situation, made Lara have to take two steps back before a jump. How realistic or fun were any of those things? Not much to me, I let the first three games sit unplayed past the first half a level until the TR4 story made me want to actually figure out how to play, then I went back and played them all.

I think the new system will require a new set of skills that model more realistically Lara's spectacularly-unlikely gymnastic movements, and that it will be more fluid, less mechanistic, but no less challenging, than in the past. That's what the devs say they are going to deliver, at any rate. Guess we'll know when we get hands on a demo. ;)
I like your optimism! :D But I don't like the newer games' engines that don't let you fall of a ledge (new console games are particularly bad for that). Where's the fun in that? I love the occassional "AAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!" as my character goes hurtling off a cliff. ;) I hate having the edges have an invisible barrier, it makes me feel like they don't trust me to be able to steer my character....oh wait! Because of the new gamepad based controls, I CAN'T steer my character! :D :p Running in a straight line or turning on a dime is no longer possible. ;)

CatSuit&Ponytail
5th Jun 2005, 10:32
... and the witty humor Lara had pre-AOD(though some of her remarks in AOD were kinda funny, just not as funny as "You might like to mind....the bell" and "happy retirement" lines from TR 3).

Those were some of my favourites. :D She cracked me up! It was just funny, not mean in any way, not snide, not b!tchy, just dry and funny. :)

John Carter
5th Jun 2005, 18:00
:D
I like your optimism! :D But I don't like the newer games' engines that don't let you fall of a ledge (new console games are particularly bad for that). Where's the fun in that? I love the occassional "AAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!" as my character goes hurtling off a cliff. ;) I hate having the edges have an invisible barrier, it makes me feel like they don't trust me to be able to steer my character....oh wait! Because of the new gamepad based controls, I CAN'T steer my character! :D :p Running in a straight line or turning on a dime is no longer possible. ;)

I'm sure this game will feature many spectacularly foolish and painful ways for Lara to get spashed all over the scenery. ;)

CatSuit&Ponytail
6th Jun 2005, 08:51
:D
I'm sure this game will feature many spectacularly foolish and painful ways for Lara to get spashed all over the scenery. ;)
You're going to make me break out in a song from South Pacific, aren't you? :D ;)