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BMACTulsa
27th May 2005, 18:24
I have only played the game for about a day now, so I may be doing something wrong, but it seems to me that the tactical battles are basically speed driven. The current rate of movement allows for cavalry or even infantry units to engage each other before a proper linear line has been set. Basically, this makes the victor of the battle, the attacker. The one who has the most mobility and the one who can hit the enemy before he has a chance to form up wins. Battles are over before they begin. Historically, the defender held the advantage, but in this game, there is no time to set the defense.

With this in mind, there is no practical use for artillery. When you unlimber your guns to fight off an attacking enemy, the rate of movement beats the speed of the shot. Cavalry charges are unaffected by cannon fire, and almost always successful. At most, you get off two volleys before you are overrun.

- Artillery should be given a longer range. It should be lethal, and a high valued asset/target on the battlefield. It should be able to make use of grape and canister to defeat the direct assault.
- Howitzers should have a more lethal impact on infantry. Howitzers usually had exploding rounds that sometimes "airburst", causing numerous casualties to units in the area.

Again, there are three distinct unit categories in 18th/19th century warfare. Right now, you can win this game just using cavalry. Beef up the effectiveness of the other two, and make the defender a little stronger!

Thoughts?

Coax74
27th May 2005, 18:54
Agreed, though once your infantry are able to form square formations, beating back cavalry attacks is easier. Just the other night I was attacked by 4 units of French cavalry against my 3 standard Line Unit infantry. Luckily I had just learned square and since none of the French were Lancers, I easily repelled their attacks and won.

These issues you've brought up have been a major complaint here though, so you're definitely preaching to the choir.

Kokopelli
27th May 2005, 18:58
I definitely agree with you on the artillery and movement speeds. However, several times I was both the attacker and defender and had sufficient time to set up my lines prior to battle. When I used my artillery to draw out their cavalry, they are quickly decimated by a combination of artillery barage, musket fire, and flanking manuevers from my own cavalry. After killing off their cavalry, their infantry is usually becomes fertilizer.

eastcoasthandle
27th May 2005, 19:49
I no longer use cannons they are to slow on the battlefield and rendered useless. Once you see them unlumber you simply move your men back a few feet to avoid the volley. AI never lumbers and moves forward.

Cannons should have

Canister, grape shot at longer distances if they insist on keeping the game speed fast

Unlumber once at the start of battle, no need to lumber to move the cannons

Didn't they have minature cannons (sat on a 4x4 plank about 2 feet high) that shelled flack (exploded once it reached the ground)?

Daerov
27th May 2005, 19:53
The problem is that you are using your artillery wrong.
You are defending wrong too.

You aren't going to run across the map to a defensible spot in combat, just like you aren't going to do it in the game, you are going to find something close, hunker down, and pummel them while they move towards you. Artillery makes this so much easier.

The thing about artillery in this game is it shoots where you click. If you click in front of someone (leading the rounds) then they will fire in front of them... That way as they charge they run right into the artillery blast.

If you shoot directly at them while they are moving of course it is going to go over their heads.

GenMoore
27th May 2005, 20:00
Well in some games the Inf cannot form square, so I find that putting four units(companies)in square with the arty on the corners, this before you start, helps to keep your arty safer.

I have noted that when the artillery open fire the AI attack with cav strait away. :)

So it helps to have some Inf and cav near by to intersept. ;)

If possible put arty higher to fire over the Inf, this then will give you protection and if cav break through use your arty to destroy them.

imperialist274
27th May 2005, 21:25
Yes, artillery in this game is useless. The enemy cavalry are magnetically drawn to the cannons destroying them, usually instantly. The only map I've seen cannons being effective on the defensive side is Castile. There is a lare cliff where you can place cannons/infantry with only one way up. From this vantage point the cannons can hit advancing enemy when they take the village. The cannons can then open up. This, however, is also pretty much useless becuase of the 5 battalions of cavalry that automatically go into artillery or death mode and charge up the hill, bypassing 3 infantry regiments in square and destroying my precious howitzers :( . Or not so "precious," eh?

Mongoose
27th May 2005, 22:22
- Artillery should be given a longer range. It should be lethal, and a high valued asset/target on the battlefield. It should be able to make use of grape and canister to defeat the direct assault.

You were complaining that game pace is too fast? This would lead to forcing the infantry to meet even faster to avoid being mauled by cannon-fire! Both sides would get in range and open fire, causing the enemy to run forward, not backwards, as running back only would create a chain of events ending in the attacker pushing the runner into a corner.

All I can suggest is to not attack units, but attack the ground in front of them and micromanage your cannons so that you can get the most out of every shot.

Gelatinous Cube
27th May 2005, 22:35
Artillery is most certainly not useless. If you use it right, you'll win battles with alot less casualties on your side, and alot more casualties for them. I always have some artillery.

imperialist274
27th May 2005, 23:33
If they have no cav :rolleyes:

Captain.Crunch
27th May 2005, 23:34
I agree artillery isn’t useless……. I have the demo and on the medium level in the desert those bloody Ghan looking desert warriors are pawning me with artillery I haven’t one that level yet ha-ha :)

Gelatinous Cube
27th May 2005, 23:36
If they have no cav :rolleyes:

It's quite easy to keep Cavalry from harming your artillery.

Captain.Crunch
27th May 2005, 23:43
Well i use my cav to protect my artillery ;)

NaPoLeOn_FusilieR
28th May 2005, 15:19
I no longer use cannons they are to slow on the battlefield and rendered useless. Once you see them unlumber you simply move your men back a few feet to avoid the volley. AI never lumbers and moves forward.

Cannons should have

Canister, grape shot at longer distances if they insist on keeping the game speed fast

Unlumber once at the start of battle, no need to lumber to move the cannons

Didn't they have minature cannons (sat on a 4x4 plank about 2 feet high) that shelled flack (exploded once it reached the ground)?

Cannons are very usefull, well if you know a good tactic to use them.

Indeed they're very slow but they're also powerfull but thats the speciality of the cannons.

!!.Always put them behind the your army.!!

Broadside
28th May 2005, 16:01
I quite like using the artillery to pin one side of an infantry army to a spot while I outflank it with cavalry. If you fire to the side of the infantry line you are attacking and then direct your cavalry there the enemy will rarely try to cross through the cannon shot to get at the cav. You can then outflank or even approach from the rear. Works 90% of the time on medium level.

Petrarch
28th May 2005, 21:13
The problem is that you are using your artillery wrong.
You are defending wrong too.

You aren't going to run across the map to a defensible spot in combat, just like you aren't going to do it in the game, you are going to find something close, hunker down, and pummel them while they move towards you. Artillery makes this so much easier.

The thing about artillery in this game is it shoots where you click. If you click in front of someone (leading the rounds) then they will fire in front of them... That way as they charge they run right into the artillery blast.

If you shoot directly at them while they are moving of course it is going to go over their heads.

This guy speaks the truth.

Captain.Crunch
28th May 2005, 22:38
Cannon is just about everything if you learn to use it properly it can mow down the enemy hence less death of your line infantry.

jdan
29th May 2005, 04:09
i am playing a game as prussia and all ive been using are dragoons.. its the easiest.. even on maps like london i was able to outflank and defeat 5 or 6 units with just 2..kinda unreal

Jax18
29th May 2005, 09:22
There is no way you can claim that artillery is useless, just needs to be implemented correctly. I find my best use for artillery is that if you have cavarly you can feign attacks forcing the enemy infrantry into square where abouts you destroy them with 12 pounders or (if you are British) Congreve Rockets. They may be slow but that is realistic so you need to base your defense around that.
Historically, the defender held the advantage, but in this game, there is no time to set the defense., I disagree with this, as long as you make a strong defensive formation this game is perfect for defending, with the strong firing from your infrantry units and the devastating bombardments from howizters. I think people just need to revise their tatics

eastcoasthandle
29th May 2005, 18:05
I truly believe we are not playing the same game.

-I must be the only one with a time limit. You know the little ticker ontop the screen

-I must be the only one were the AI never foolishly charges at me so I never have to move the cannons very far.

-I must be the only one that tries to get my army to strategic positions on the map.

In all I must be playing another game because in order to use the cannon you must move the cannon to a strategic location, preferrable higher ground, hill, mound, etc. Personllay I don't have a problem with cav I do have a problem with the cannon. Yes, we all have our personally strategies that work for us. However, there is no strategy when your cannon is still trying to catchup to the army.

Oh, lets not forget seizing Britian's castle. You can't just sit there, you have to find the most strategic method of operation.. I don't know about you but my cannons don't shoot far enough to be effective (over the moot, several yards up a hill and another few yards inside the Castle itself).

Daerov
30th May 2005, 05:32
Once again:

You aren't going to run across the map to a defensible spot in combat, just like you aren't going to do it in the game, you are going to find something close, hunker down, and pummel them while they move towards you. Artillery makes this so much easier.

You don't have to go to basic to figure this out, you don't have to go to OCS, you don't have to go to the War College. If the enemy is coming at you then all you can do is hold what you have, possibly moving to a better spot WHERE YOU CAN SET UP BEFORE THEY GET TO YOU.

If you are moving to the high ground when they reach you, you're wrong.

Gelatinous Cube
30th May 2005, 06:03
On Harder difficulties, the enemy won't always come to meet you, and will instead wait for you to come to them. Artillery is still useful here, you just have to use patience.

Mongoose
30th May 2005, 16:24
Found it useful to creep up with my cannons (Usually 12 pounders) and get one unit in range, then fire. Let them run, then creep forward to another unit. Paydirt is when you get their cannons right on the edge of your range, since you've got 3 cannons in range of their 1 and they need to pull up the rest of thiers and by then the cannon war is won, forcing them into an attack they may not of been ready for, as they get pummeled by cannon fire. :cool:

kinkajoeyoni
30th May 2005, 17:32
how do you think napoleon won so many battles, he knew exactly how many time his armies would walk/run on a certain distance

vortexdr1
1st Jun 2005, 14:04
Actually the problem is yes they could use some more range but if some soul decides to just up cannon range it will kill the game seeing Arty is far to accurate.

So in the end it will take more then a fvew basic changes since you have to up range but at the same time decrease rate of fire and general accuracy and while doing that you might as well reduce walk and run speeds accross the board and only then would you have something somewhat realistic and playable.

Nial
1st Jun 2005, 18:21
Bottom line....to be effective and overcome it's handycaps; cannon must be micromanaged. Personaly, first thing I do is pick a defensive postion that I can reach. Being carefull not to try for a "hill to far". Once I have my defensive position established? Then I decide how best to attack if the enemy forces me to assume an offensive attitude.

As far as the timed battles........ I have never had a problem with it. The maps are small enough that you could march your whole army cross and back and still have over 5 minutes left. Frequently if your patient and run a couple cavalry feints? The enemy will attack around the ten minute mark anyway.

JMHO

Captain.Crunch
2nd Jun 2005, 03:55
There seems to be plenty of time but I have only played 2 maps so…… a battle does not take that long really LOL However I have had infantry stand offs for a long time musket fire back and forth men dropping you know the drill that is a bit time consuming. I get pissed off with them and send in the cav. :mad: