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Thecrisis5
23rd May 2005, 21:32
What, in your humble opinions, is the best unit in the game. I cant make the call between cuisarres or dragoons.

Bob_hoesmith
1st Jun 2005, 21:55
when controlled by AI, the militia seem to be an unending tide of raw power for me. But I would go for dragoons. It's just a shame you can't fire while moving, it would make hit and run tactics much safer...

Nial
1st Jun 2005, 22:11
Hands down.....Polish Lancer. 80 melee

On that subject. Id like to see some more special units in the game.

Mongoose
1st Jun 2005, 22:41
Czar's Guard when upgraded=Godly :D

inertiatic-volta
1st Jun 2005, 22:54
ship of the line. ^^

Isledall
1st Jun 2005, 23:27
I like those hussar horse guys from tech 1..
cheap.. quick to build.. and killing everyone...

till they develop square :)

AGENT15
2nd Jun 2005, 00:36
It's just a shame you can't fire while moving, it would make hit and run tactics much safer...
GOd thats unrealistic that u cant.. it sucks that you cant because that would be AWSOEM! Just have reduced accuracy and bingo! fun for the whole family!

imperialist274
2nd Jun 2005, 01:25
Household cavalry, the perfect raiding/sneaking/skulking/unit on horses/pwnage :cool:

Captain.Crunch
2nd Jun 2005, 04:01
Ahh there is a topic on this question.

well my answer is Household cavalry :D

Black Guard
2nd Jun 2005, 16:17
British Elite Light inf. ( or Rifle ) in double ranks, and watch them lancers tumble or get repulsed by a masive volly. then hi tail it into the nearest wood or building. :D

I would have chosen Dragoons if you were able to dismount them to fight as Light inf. and had an evasive tactic to avoid mele. alowing them to hit and run. as to shooting on the move i disagree the weapons were not that accurate, and required mass fire to b effective.

zzxxcc
2nd Jun 2005, 16:46
Nothing is absolute but I've found that the critical use of proportionate forces is highly central, but unit selection must be determined by terrain and tactics.

For example: In defence in mountainous terrain, the use of mass militia and a 'reverse slope' defence reduces battles to the least common denominator- close combat melee.

That is to say: Stand behind a hill and every battle can be a hand-to-hand combat affair. So- cannon, light infantry and even calvary become of greatly reduced value.

And what I like about militia in general comes out of this- it is their ability to engage far, FAR more expensive units a close combat one-for-one loss melee. A militia unit in melee can give as good as it gets with most other units, BUT those other units cost twice as much to build a militia. So, I lose around 500/500/500 resources worth of forces in a eliminated milita unit, while having destroying 1250/1000/1000 resources worth of enemy forces. That's cost effective warfare! :)

But in open terrain and facing an attack of mass militia, a single dragoon unit is death in a saddle.

Nial
2nd Jun 2005, 17:11
Nothing is absolute but I've found that the critical use of proportionate forces is highly central, but unit selection must be determined by terrain and tactics.

For example: In defence in mountainous terrain, the use of mass militia and a 'reverse slope' defence reduces battles to the least common denominator- close combat melee.

That is to say: Stand behind a hill and every battle can be a hand-to-hand combat affair. So- cannon, light infantry and even calvary become of greatly reduced value.

And what I like about militia in general comes out of this- it is their ability to engage far, FAR more expensive units a close combat one-for-one loss melee. A militia unit in melee can give as good as it gets with most other units, BUT those other units cost twice as much to build a militia. So, I lose around 500/500/500 resources worth of forces in a eliminated milita unit, while having destroying 1250/1000/1000 resources worth of enemy forces. That's cost effective warfare! :)

But in open terrain and facing an attack of mass militia, a single dragoon unit is death in a saddle.

Hmm.......have to disagree on this.
Millitia has a melee of 32 I think. Hvy Cav is 71, and Polish lancers are 80.
I've used this example before but it fits so?

I have charged Lt. cav up a steep hill decimated the cannon unit and then decimated the millitia units behind it, and lost less than half of my Lt. Cav.

Having said that. Millitia definately has it's uses. I have even been known to use it as Cav. when there was nothing else handy. Millitia can be a great distraction unit. I'll send one or two units across at the AIs arty. Some times they get there. Sometimes they don't. But it always disrupts their lines and formations. Leaving them open to flanking movements. Or even an all out attack. It also can be an effective arty protection unit. Counter charge a unit thats charging your arty. The militia will most often intercept and stall their charge, giving you time to destroy that unit with musket fire.To me, Militia is an expendible unit. That relates directly to the cheap costs to produce them.

Captain.Crunch
3rd Jun 2005, 01:39
Hmm.......have to disagree on this.
Millitia has a melee of 32 I think. Hvy Cav is 71, and Polish lancers are 80.
I've used this example before but it fits so?

I have charged Lt. cav up a steep hill decimated the cannon unit and then decimated the millitia units behind it, and lost less than half of my Lt. Cav.

Having said that. Millitia definately has it's uses. I have even been known to use it as Cav. when there was nothing else handy. Millitia can be a great distraction unit. I'll send one or two units across at the AIs arty. Some times they get there. Sometimes they don't. But it always disrupts their lines and formations. Leaving them open to flanking movements. Or even an all out attack. It also can be an effective arty protection unit. Counter charge a unit thats charging your arty. The militia will most often intercept and stall their charge, giving you time to destroy that unit with musket fire.To me, Militia is an expendible unit. That relates directly to the cheap costs to produce them.


Millitia i really do not like LOLOL :eek: Having said that if i had Militia i would send them in first because to me there worthless.....

Millitia would be excellent in ambush situations though as an army has to be prepared Millitia dont.

wolfetone
3rd Jun 2005, 01:57
To me, Militia is an expendible unit. That relates directly to the cheap costs to produce them.


Cannon fodder... true cannon fodder :D

Gelatinous Cube
3rd Jun 2005, 02:30
Line Infantry.

wolfetone
3rd Jun 2005, 02:41
Line Infantry.

Line Infantry Costs more.... ;)

Dravin
3rd Jun 2005, 06:26
Militia make great bait, also good for absorbing charges so your other units or artillery (hey, they are expendable) can make short work of the superior unit, though I must say outside the very early game I never build the things, after that if I have any it's because I had to scramble an army really quick and found one hiding in the barracks of an annexed minor power.

As for best unit, I think overall I like my Hussars, quick to build they add a lot of ompf to an army either on the defense or offense.

Gelatinous Cube
3rd Jun 2005, 07:00
Line Infantry Costs more.... ;)

Line Infantry is the best. They have Melee as good as Militia, they have a decent Ranged Attack, they're cheap, and they take 1 turn to produce. My armies always consist of mostly Line Infantry.

Isledall
3rd Jun 2005, 07:10
I like to use jagers with cav backup...

best combo is 4 jagers 2 cannons and like 4 cheap horses
gets me to victory always......

I use the horses to destroy (if possible) the enemey cannons.. then it is a matter of bombarding the enemey so they have to attack..
my jagers will decimate them.... and with cav near the jagers.. the enemy units stay at a good distance... when they come to close a cav charge will eliminate them... when they go square... gun and cannon fire will be there end...

Captain.Crunch
3rd Jun 2005, 08:05
I like to use jagers with cav backup...

best combo is 4 jagers 2 cannons and like 4 cheap horses
gets me to victory always......

I use the horses to destroy (if possible) the enemey cannons.. then it is a matter of bombarding the enemey so they have to attack..
my jagers will decimate them.... and with cav near the jagers.. the enemy units stay at a good distance... when they come to close a cav charge will eliminate them... when they go square... gun and cannon fire will be there end...

Excellent combo sounds like a WORKS BURGER @ KFC ! got the lot your heading for a crushing victory by god the generals will be pleased!

Yorkie
3rd Jun 2005, 15:25
GOd thats unrealistic that u cant.. it sucks that you cant because that would be AWSOEM! Just have reduced accuracy and bingo! fun for the whole family!

No that is realsitic , the guns were barrle loaded fella :)

Nial
3rd Jun 2005, 16:15
No that is realsitic , the guns were barrle loaded fella :)

Not only that. If you've ever tried to fire a weapon (any weapon) While moving at all, much less mounted on a horse? You would realise it takes literaly years to become even semi-proficient. The best mounted ranged units we're usually trained from an early age in order to be profiecint at this kind of warfare. AKA. Mongol horse archers, or Samurai. Where as most europeon army units we're made up of men that might not have shot a gun or rode a horse in their lives before they joined the military. Of course there are always exceptions to general statements like this. ;)

Commissar
3rd Jun 2005, 18:05
Muskets aren't particularly accurate to begin with - at least not compared with rifles - and the above poster makes a brilliant point; aiming would be nigh-on impossible while moving. Hell, just go buy one of those little laser pointers and trying running from one side of a room to the other while keeping the dot in nearly the same place. Tough to do.

Also, for some reason I thought I remembered reading that dragoons actually dismounted when firing their muskets. Guess I could be wrong about that.

Nial
3rd Jun 2005, 18:16
Muskets aren't particularly accurate to begin with - at least not compared with rifles - and the above poster makes a brilliant point; aiming would be nigh-on impossible while moving. Hell, just go buy one of those little laser pointers and trying running from one side of a room to the other while keeping the dot in nearly the same place. Tough to do.

Also, for some reason I thought I remembered reading that dragoons actually dismounted when firing their muskets. Guess I could be wrong about that.

You are correct some generals prefered to use Dragoons more as mounted infantry than shooting cavalry.

It wasn't until the invention of a decent multi-shot pistol that cavalry came into it's own where distance fire while riding was used. And even then they tended to get less than twenty feet away before firing. There is always the noise and smoke factor. But disiplined troops would be only mildly affected by this. JMHO. :D

Ryoken
3rd Jun 2005, 18:20
People often fail to consider that simply because it is a mounted unit does not mean that it is mounted IN COMBAT. There are numerous types of warriors throughout history who used the horse as speedy locomotion, but fought on the ground. That is because a simple pike or longspear can kill a cavalryman easily. You have a lot more freedom of lateral movement on foot; often critical in melee.

Horses tactics are, in many ways, like those of aircraft. They are best used to strike and keep moving. If you want to stay and fight, you are probably going to be better off on foot. Just like a helicopter can stay in one place and deal out heavy punishment while an aircraft can only "make passes".

Nial
3rd Jun 2005, 18:23
People often fail to consider that simply because it is a mounted unit does not mean that it is mounted IN COMBAT. There are numerous types of warriors throughout history who used the horse as speedy locomotion, but fought on the ground. That is because a simple pike or longspear can kill a cavalryman easily. You have a lot more freedom of lateral movement on foot; often critical in melee.

Horses tactics are, in many ways, like those of aircraft. They are best used to strike and keep moving. If you want to stay and fight, you are probably going to be better off on foot. Just like a helicopter can stay in one place and deal out heavy punishment while an aircraft can only "make passes".
Exactly.......Which explains the historical rule. Cavalry can take ground but cant hold it.

Black Guard
4th Jun 2005, 05:06
Line Infantry is the best. They have Melee as good as Militia, they have a decent Ranged Attack, they're cheap, and they take 1 turn to produce. My armies always consist of mostly Line Infantry.

Also Line inf v militia line inf will win with virtually no losses,every time since the sqair formation works as well against melitia as it do's to cave. best result i got from an all militia army against my mixed army, i just used the Line inf in squair up front, the militia lost 406 to my 5, excellent result i think.

Element-UK
5th Jun 2005, 11:38
BLACK WATCH for me anyday. Those scots need their Bagpipers though.
Additional: Mind you I do love wasting all at sea with those 'Ship of the Lines' like was said.