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View Full Version : Jay Man please read this



Sieur_Drewry
12th May 2005, 04:54
I really beg of you to ask developement to make sure this feature is included or added in a patch.

I really want the ability to order your men to fire. Just fire no questions asked, no right clicking any enemies or anything just fire straight ahead. And they keep firing in that direction as soon as they reload. And you can halt this etc,

This would be VERY useful to me because i could line up my columns and as soon as a cavalry comes by i just click fire, they all shoot together (all my units), and boom cavalry is dead. But as it is in the demo, the unit has to line up, and fix itself in position etc. This would also allow us to have the 1st ranks shoot in column formation without having to move around.

This is very logical, obviously any officer of these units could order his men to just fire in whatever direction they are facing!

[J.E.v.O]
12th May 2005, 06:15
yeah that would be pretty usefull for alot of tactics!

jaywalker2309
12th May 2005, 10:20
I really beg of you to ask developement to make sure this feature is included or added in a patch.

I really want the ability to order your men to fire. Just fire no questions asked, no right clicking any enemies or anything just fire straight ahead. And they keep firing in that direction as soon as they reload. And you can halt this etc,

This would be VERY useful to me because i could line up my columns and as soon as a cavalry comes by i just click fire, they all shoot together (all my units), and boom cavalry is dead. But as it is in the demo, the unit has to line up, and fix itself in position etc. This would also allow us to have the 1st ranks shoot in column formation without having to move around.

This is very logical, obviously any officer of these units could order his men to just fire in whatever direction they are facing!

You mean like `force fire`?

saddletank
12th May 2005, 20:17
Well as a game tactic I can see the point but no unit prior to the invention of automatic weapons ever fired at an area of ground, as an area denial tactic. All fire in this period was conducted against known targets and then usually at very close range.

You want WW1 artillery and machine guns before area fire is introduced.

If you see a need for such a tactic then instead you should ask yourself why do I want to fire my units like that - what part of the gameplay makes this a real need, and then put in a request to fix the non-historical gameplay that is causing the problem.

Massed volley fire into space is incorrect and silly.

Sieur_Drewry
12th May 2005, 22:05
yes jay thats what im talking about forced fire.

It is not silly at all, during this period troop training was very crucial, if an officer ordered the troops to fire - even in space - they would do it. How is this silly at all? It is not firing at the ground, it is just ordering the troops to fire. Are you telling me the officers of the 19th century did not order their troops to fire?

It would be even less realistic to have to have your whole column turn to just to shoot something that is directly in front of you. Dont be foolish here, this feature would increase realism.

jaywalker2309
12th May 2005, 23:17
yes jay thats what im talking about forced fire.

It is not silly at all, during this period troop training was very crucial, if an officer ordered the troops to fire - even in space - they would do it. How is this silly at all? It is not firing at the ground, it is just ordering the troops to fire. Are you telling me the officers of the 19th century did not order their troops to fire?

It would be even less realistic to have to have your whole column turn to just to shoot something that is directly in front of you. Dont be foolish here, this feature would increase realism.

The cannons all have force fire. You can make them shoot at the ground so units cannot enter an area without being shelled.

Infantry doing the same i feel is a little too unrealistic, yes i know this game is not perfectly realistic in places, but this to me is something that would be really out of place.

Dravin
12th May 2005, 23:21
I think we are having a case of miscommunication, I think what Sieur_Drewry is talking about is the fact that if you order your men to fire at a unit that isn't dead center that your unit will move out of position so that all men can fire instead of maintaining formation and resulting in only say 75% of your men firing on target.

In other words, I think what he is really seeking for is a stand ground order, not area effect, I'm getting this by focusing on this part:



It would be even less realistic to have to have your whole column turn to just to shoot something that is directly in front of you. Dont be foolish here, this feature would increase realism.


As always I'm fallible.

Sieur_Drewry
13th May 2005, 01:56
You are partly right. I dont want to select an area for them to fire because that would be unrealstic. I simply want a command where you can force a unit to just fire straight ahead of wherever they are standing. As if you were the officer of that unit and you just gave the order fire.

This would save much frustration from cavalry charges, or any charges, you could select your whole army and just click the fire button and everyone would fire straight ahead. No insane units moving out of position or anything of that sort. The last thing i would want is a forced fire command like the canons, thats just plan stupid having infantry shoot the ground.

Oststar
13th May 2005, 06:10
I think you'd get further asking for an autofire ability, ie when in extreme danger the unit fires from where it is. So if you were marching a Fusilero unit along a road and cav charged into its flank the unit doesn't keep moving or form line and pivot to fire, the individuals simply begin to turn as the cav comes within a very short distance and start shooting. It'd be almost useless against cav, but it might be able to buy some time to fall back or form a line while shooting when used against inf. This would be historically accurate because I think it'd be virtually impossible for a whole formed battalion to sneak up on another formed battalion. Cavalry would be even harder. So when a battalion became aware of the threat it wouldn't wait for orders, the men would just start shooting, and then the vast majority would rout too.

jaywalker2309
13th May 2005, 07:48
I think you'd get further asking for an autofire ability, ie when in extreme danger the unit fires from where it is. So if you were marching a Fusilero unit along a road and cav charged into its flank the unit doesn't keep moving or form line and pivot to fire, the individuals simply begin to turn as the cav comes within a very short distance and start shooting. It'd be almost useless against cav, but it might be able to buy some time to fall back or form a line while shooting when used against inf. This would be historically accurate because I think it'd be virtually impossible for a whole formed battalion to sneak up on another formed battalion. Cavalry would be even harder. So when a battalion became aware of the threat it wouldn't wait for orders, the men would just start shooting, and then the vast majority would rout too.

Auto attack exists.. We've tweaked the unit behaviour slightly so that they have a wider scope now, so dont keep reforming and turning when an enemy unit has turned 2 feet to the left.

Oststar
13th May 2005, 07:53
But when not in a line will they turn and fire as individuals?

saddletank
13th May 2005, 08:15
during this period troop training was very crucial, if an officer ordered the troops to fire - even in space - they would do it. How is this silly at all? It is not firing at the ground, it is just ordering the troops to fire. Are you telling me the officers of the 19th century did not order their troops to fire?

I can only repeat what I know from history. Troops did not fire into a 'space' ahead of them to deny that space to an enemy. They only fired at specific enemy targets. The men would respond to an order to fire from their offiecrs of course but those officers would not give an order such as you are suggesting.(*)

Instead look at the root cause of your problem and try another fix.

The only instances I know of is plunging fire from howitzers directed beyond crestlines (such as happened at Waterloo) or collateral casualties from roundshot 'overs' that were aimed at another target but missed, and even then the artillery crews were firing at a specific target.

What is it you are trying to achieve? ANd more importantly what game mechanism is preventing you from achieveing it?