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View Full Version : Feedback from the demo, if the devs are interested.



saddletank
21st Apr 2005, 08:39
Here's my take after first playing the demo through twice last night.

Things I like about the demo

1. Graphics are superb, terrain and texturing are great, 3D models excellent. Perhaps in the middle of a battle the miller and his family would take cover or leave the mill so having turning sails is anachronistic but I can live with it.

2. Being able to put men in buildings for defence is great. I have not yet assaulted a building but I hope it is very hard to clear men out, particularly if it’s a solidly built building like a church. You only have to read accounts of battles like Ligny to realise that shifting defenders out of villages was extremely difficult.

3. Musket and cannon smoke good. But more of it please, and it disperses too soon.

4. Density of formations (closeness of ranks and files) is acceptable.

5. Sounds are fine, no problems with them. At least we don’t have American voices responding when we select British troops

6. Camera tilt option is good – getting down close to the troops is great.

7. Generally the look of the whole game is excellent.

8. Movement speeds of artillery and infantry is good(ish), but see the discussion about game balance below (item 13).

9. Animated cows and sheep. Lovely. Very cute. More please. Oh, and can we shoot them too?

Hmmm… now the problems

1. Movement speed of cavalry is much too fast. Cavalry would walk almost all the time in order to prevent the horses being blown. Cavalry walking in formation do not actually move that much faster than infantry in formation. The option to move faster (trot or canter) to a certain point if the need arises would be best, so the ‘charge’ move option to any selected place on the terrain would help. That would then require a fatigue system to be implemented, I’m not sure if it is at the moment.

2. Changing formations speed is much too fast. While infantry would practice forming square quickly the units in the game do this just too quickly. Slow these down by around 50% I think.

3. Artillery movement seems to get confused when reaching a location. It seems the guns don’t have enough room between them for the horse team to turn, etc. I’d like to see the guns spaced further apart to cure this and because in reality guns were spaced quite far apart, about 10 yards between guns. About double the current spacing would work. Oh, and as it stands the horses are towing the guns backwards, given that you'd need a more complex unlimbering animation could the horses pull the guns the right way round please? The demo gives each gun a rudimentary limber so we are part way there already.

4. Artillery range is too short. Waay too short. The infantry musket range feels long by comparison. If we keep the existing musket range then artillery range needs to be trebled for it to remain consistent. More inaccuracy at long range as well please.

5. I do not like roundshot from field guns exploding when it lands. Guns should fire solid ball please that bounces along the ground and rolls for quite some distance (unless the ground is wet or if the balls are landing on an uphill slope when they would bounce and roll less).

6. Artillery needs a canister ammunition for ranges of around 400yards and under. Artillery canister had a longer effective range than infantry muskets so it should not be practical for an infantry line to stand a couple hundred yards from a gun battery and kill it by musket fire. They would be decimated by the artillery canister first, in almost all cases.

7. Artillery moves too slowly when threatened. Gunners could, and did, pull their guns out of harms way if infantry approached by rapidly retreating, albeit in some disorder. In the game guns can’t run. They should be able to ‘run’ a short distance. So generally artillery in the demo is too weak.

8. No units should fire from behind friends unless they are on higher ground, in the upper floors of buildings, etc.

9. Units need the ability to withdraw from melee if the player wishes.

10. The game needs a morale system – units fighting to the death is totally unrealistic.

11. Some AI pathing needs looking at – I ordered one of my cavalry regiments to cross the river by clicking among the trees on the far bank and the unit ignored the bridge right next to it and waded through the river. A unit would use a bridge unless told otherwise. Likewise I ordered a gun battery across the river and it began to move but went hundreds of yards away upriver to a place it could cross. A simple “We cannot get the guns across here, sir” response and refusal to move would be better.

12. I think it would be better if rivers were only fordable at certain points and the bank texture showed where this was possible. Crossing units over a river is currently a bit of a lottery, not realistic.

13. Infantry and artillery reload too fast. This is all about game balance and involves the ranges at which the weapons are effective and how fast units move. As it currently stands musket range is too long in relation to an infantry move that’s too slow and reload time that’s too short which means infantry get blown away on an approach. There are accounts of French infantry ‘advancing rapidly’ and ‘approaching so rapidly we had no time to fire a second volley’ etc. The three elements of range/move speed/reload time need examining again. Basically three shots a minute for the first one or two minutes was excellent from average infantry and two shots a minute thereafter. Artillery could keep up two shots a minute for about 10 minutes when it would drop to about one shot a minute (gunners tired fast, repositioning the gun after every shot’s recoil was hard work).

14. Formations: The AI forms lines of unequal length. I only noticed this with the cavalry, the infantry seemed OK. The AI should be able to divide the number of men in the unit by the number of lines it’s forming and form the correct frontage. I’d like to see British infantry form correctly in lines two ranks deep, other nations in three. I’d like to see hollow squares, with the faces facing outward rather than just a square column formation. Only the Russians used the solid square and then the outer three/four ranks on all sides faced out. Currently it looks like a square’s men all face forward.

15. Bigger units please. 100-140 man infantry companies, 80-120 man cavalry squadrons and 6-8 gun batteries would be great.

16. More uniform and flag accuracy please. Ah, I see the modders have already begun to tackle this one.

17. The camera controls are very odd and not consistent with other games. Cursor keys moving forward/back and tracking/panning left/right. Mousewheel to zoom the view and right click, hold and move mouse to rotate all work for me. Having different systems in different games gets very confusing if like me you have several games on the go at once. I hope the full game will allow key remapping to let a player to use his personal preferences.

18. The game seems to use generic cannon models. In reality British, French, Austrian, etc guns were of distinct design and paint colour. More accuracy please. I could not tell any tactical difference between the howitzer and the field gun in the demo.

19. In a prolonged infantry duel at long range I noticed men moving from one part of the formation along the line to replace a lost man at another part of the unit. Please don’t do this, it didn’t happen. As losses mounted men would simply move in on the centre so that a units frontage gradually shortened. Unless they were in square when the whole formation would slowly contract so that each face became shorter.

20. Infantry seem to cause too many casualties at long range compared to very short range. Musketry duels at over 100-150 yards should last for ages, only 1 or 2 men per volley being casualties at that range. I would like to see the option to make your infantry and artillery hold their fire until point blank. Or just a toggle ‘fire at will’ on and off would be OK. Certainly I’d like my line to hold its fire until the approaching enemy got within 30 yards, then give them one huge blast and charge in with the old cold steel. The game doesn’t seem to allow such tactics at present.

21. I’d like to have a general and his staff unit representing the player. Not allowed in combat, but would give a morale bonus to units close by and could rally routing troops. Something like subordinate commanders as well would be nice, representing division or corps commanders they could be attached to any unit in their division/corps and would raise it’s morale. They could become a casualty though. This system would help encourage a move toward more realistic higher formations, so you wouldn’t think of moving one battalion of a brigade over there, but send the whole brigade over there, etc.

22. I can see the game has been given a fast tempo for online play. For single player could a set of speed sliders be introduced that would alter move speeds, formation change speeds, reloading speed, and so on. And a pause button to allow orders to be issued while paused please.

Think that's it for now, but I'll probably think of more stuff after I play again tonight.

Martin

BANANAMAN
21st Apr 2005, 09:44
Here's my take after first playing the demo through twice last night.

10. The game needs a morale system – units fighting to the death is totally unrealistic.

Martin

HEY MAN! I LIKE THE NO MORALE - FIGHTING TO THE DEATH SYSTEM! :mad:

If you want a Napoleonic pc game with a morale system then go get yourself a copy of Cossacks2. Then you will see why I shouted at you (sorry about that though) because a lot of Cossacks fans and newbies have complaints about many things and the morale system is included: the formations in Cossacks2 break and run away when tired, or being shot at at the first volley of musketfire, LOL! It's like you have only cowards in your army in Cossacks2.

So, your number 10. advice is NO good buddy. :mad: :D

saddletank
21st Apr 2005, 10:00
My preference is for a realistic wargame, in war all men run away once their will to keep fighting is broken. You're evidently seeking a different gaming experience to me.

I'm not discussing Cossacks2 here, I bought it and returned it to the shop straight away. That's not the Napoleonic wargame I'm seeking either, it's more a resource management game.

BANANAMAN
21st Apr 2005, 10:18
My preference is for a realistic wargame, in war all men run away once their will to keep fighting is broken. You're evidently seeking a different gaming experience to me.

I can clearly see your preference is for a realistic wargame but this (Imperial Glory) is a pc game and in a pc game there is a BALANCE between realism and gameplay, so you wont get total realism in a pc game, there has to be room left for gameplay also. And in a pc game as long realism isnt in the way of gameplay it's in there but when it (realism) is in the way of gameplay then that certain part of it (realism) is left out. And a morale system is for many gamers in the way of (fun) gameplay. People dont buy a pc game like Imperial Glory to see their units/soldiers/army run away like scared chickens.

Did I say scared chickens? LOL! :D

saddletank
21st Apr 2005, 10:42
The PC is the best format for a game that is realistic. Much more so than using miniatures on a table for example because the game can control hidden movement, fatigue, ammo supply and a 101 other factors that are not really possible in a dice and paper game.

There have been a run of PC wargames in the last 2-3 years that claim to be realistic and historically accurate but which aren't and I'm starting to tire of companies that promise one thing then deliver another. The multiplayer gamer has a large choice of semi- or non-realistic wargames to choose from, whereas the person seeking a realistic game has very little choice on the market right now. Perhaps no developer will ever produce such a game because they think it's style of gameplay would not suit a mass market.

However going back to one point you made, I can't think of any other PC wargame that does not have a morale system. A morale system that works well helps the player rather than hinders him, or spoils the game. Such a system is where you have to employ care and thought and some tactical finesse in how you fight your battles to make the most of your men's morale and to keep them from running away as long as possible, and to identify what tactics will put fear into the enemy soonest and employ those moves.

Having played the 2 IG demo battles through now several times from both sides I can see the game as it stands isn't a realistic game, I'm hoping however the code will be open enough to allow modding to make it into one.

Tenjo_Kalle
21st Apr 2005, 10:46
Of course there must be a moralesystem. If you are a skilled general your troops will stay on the battlefield, if you are bad you will see your troops run away in panic. That is good gameplay to me.

And comparing to cossacks - that is just silly - but not as silly as suggesting there should be no moralesystem.

But by all means include an option to turn the moralesystem off for those who are not good generals ;)

Kalle

BANANAMAN
21st Apr 2005, 11:07
@ saddletank.

I think you are a Les Grognard or Le Grand Armee: Austerlitz kind of gamer, but many customers of Pyrostudios (Imperial Glory) are not.

Most gamers who buy from Pyrostudios expect a movie like kind of pc game, meaning most gamers like to buy entertainment á la Hollywood Napoleonic battles not á la reenactment of Napoleonic battles.

As a gamer I say it again, again and again (until you understand,lol): most gamers dont buy a pc game to see their units/soldiers/army running away from the battlefield: it's just irritating.. VERY irritating for most of the gamers. We want them units/soldiers/army do as they are told and fight, fight, fight to the death!

saddletank
21st Apr 2005, 11:28
dont[/U] buy a pc game to see their units/soldiers/army running away from the battlefield: it's just irritating!

It's OK, you don't need to go on repeating it; I agree, in fact I'd go so far to say that not one single player has ever bought a PC wargame to see their soldiers running away. People buy them so their men don't run away. It may be irritating when it happens but for me it means I need to work harder and improve my tactics so that next time it's the enemy whose men run and not mine. A morale system in a PC game will improve your game, thus increasing your enjoyment, thus you may buy another title from that dev in the future :)

No unit fights until it is wiped out in war. Why should they in a wargame? If they do, it's not a wargame but something else. To have a game like IG which is supposed to be a game of Napoleonic warfare and market it without a morale system is a strange decision. Napoleon himself said "The morale is to the physical as three is to one" meaning that in Napoleonic warfare morale was by far the biggest single factor in deciding who won or lost a fight. Without morale it's not a Napoleonic game.

I have never bought any Pyro Studios game before. Am I expecting too much from them to have a morale system in their games? What games have they made previously and did these have a morale system?

Also why does the marketing blurb tell us IG is "a realistic and historically accurate" game? Coz what I've seen of it so far, it ain't :)

BANANAMAN
21st Apr 2005, 11:49
a Napoleonic game.


Look saddletank, I dont want to keep debating forever so arent you I suppose, but it seems you are reading my posts but it also seems you dont or cannot understand my posts on this matter neither. :D

Look, you said it yourself: a Napoleonic game. PC GAME that is. And in a pc game there is no real Napoleon, no real battle: a pc game is about entertainment (entertainment = sensation mixed with realism & sensation = artificial extreme all sort of acts). A pc game is about showbiz not a reenactment somewhere on a football-field or park.

There is a small group of gamers like you though.. and therefor you can always make a mod. of Imperial Glory.. if you can. Then all are happy. :cool:
Yes? :D

saddletank
21st Apr 2005, 12:04
in a pc game there is no real Napoleon, no real battle: a pc game is about entertainment

So why model a pc game on Napoleon's battles and campaigns? I don't agree with your argument but then you knew that, so we'll close this discussion. You play IG as it is now, I'll put it away until some decent mods are made for it.

BANANAMAN
21st Apr 2005, 12:14
There have been a run of PC wargames in the last 2-3 years that claim to be realistic and historically accurate but which aren't and I'm starting to tire of companies that promise one thing then deliver another.

LOL, have to answer this one, so sorry about that saddletank. :D

Yes, there is a GREAT demand for pc wargames in the last 2-3 years. Now, why is that? :confused:

Because people/consumers/gamers want entertainment á la history, historical events/eras in the STRATEGY genre, because there is just too much science-fiction/outofspace/fantasy crap outthere which also bears the name of STRATEGY. Most people/consumers/gamers want a HISTORICAL strategy pc game and there isnt much of it outthere not on the storeshelves it isnt, so that's what is happening and is called by you as a run of pc wargames.

And a historical strategy pc game doesnt necesserly has to be 100% realistic.

Thought you needed to know. :D

Tenjo_Kalle
21st Apr 2005, 12:28
Bananaman, you are starting to annoy me, I think YOU are the one who not understand. I see many here requesting a moralesystem. Go play starcraft or whatever if u dont like a moralesystem.

If you want a Hollywood movie then by all means go to the cinema. Superb graphics are nice but on their own they do not make a good game.

There is NO, I repeat, NO contradiction between good fun gameplay and a moralesystem. Just look at totalwar battles - thousands of people buy those games to see their troops run or win.

A MOD with a moralesystem would NOT satisfy me and if the game does not include a moralesystem I think it would be very hard to mod one in (not to mention I and many others wont buy the game if it lacks this feture).

On the other hand if there is a moralesystem why dont YOU mod it away - that sound easier to me. Its allways easier to brake things then to make things :D

If you learn how to use your army good your troops will fight to the death (or very close to it) even if there is a moralesystem. lt is basically one of the things that make the diffrence between a good general and a bad one - are you afraid or do you just know beforehand that you are not a good general??

Now instead of whining about a feture you dont understand try to open your mind to the possibilites a great moralesystem opens. Tactics and battles will become so much more intense and exiting.

Kalle

BANANAMAN
21st Apr 2005, 13:06
Bananaman, you are starting to annoy me, I think YOU are the one who not understand. I see many here requesting a moralesystem. Go play starcraft or whatever if u dont like a moralesystem.

If you want a Hollywood movie then by all means go to the cinema. Superb graphics are nice but on their own they do not make a good game.

There is NO, I repeat, NO contradiction between good fun gameplay and a moralesystem. Just look at totalwar battles - thousands of people buy those games to see their troops run or win.

A MOD with a moralesystem would NOT satisfy me and if the game does not include a moralesystem I think it would be very hard to mod one in (not to mention I and many others wont buy the game if it lacks this feture).

On the other hand if there is a moralesystem why dont YOU mod it away - that sound easier to me. Its allways easier to brake things then to make things :D

If you learn how to use your army good your troops will fight to the death (or very close to it) even if there is a moralesystem. lt is basically one of the things that make the diffrence between a good general and a bad one - are you afraid or do you just know beforehand that you are not a good general??

Now instead of whining about a feture you dont understand try to open your mind to the possibilites a great moralesystem opens. Tactics and battles will become so much more intense and exiting.

Kalle

I'm just glad Pyrostudios realy understand MOST of their gamers and have not made this pc game with a moral-system. :D

And a cinematic pc game is a typical trademark of Pyrostudios which I'm realy happy with and many other gamers with me. :cool:

So, it's you who are pro morale-system who will have to mod. Imperial Glory I'm afraid. :p

BANANAMAN
21st Apr 2005, 13:16
Bananaman, you are starting to annoy me

You are annoying me too. :cool:

Tenjo_Kalle
21st Apr 2005, 13:21
Where are all those players you have made urself the spokesman of???

I see only you and maybe someone else in another topic having your view of things. On the other hand I see many asking for a moralesystem.

I also see you take for granted you will have your will in this. Can you please point me to where I can read the developers have made up their minds.

Kalle

BANANAMAN
21st Apr 2005, 13:30
Why should those with my opinion say something when I already said things they agree upon?

And so far as I can see the only ones or spokesmen for a morale-system are just you and saddletank. :D

And speaking about Pyrostudios, I know their products because I bought two products from them before, namely Commandos3 and Praetorians. And those products are VERY cinematic (believe it or not).

But I will repeat my statement once more again: I'm VERY happy to see that there is NO morale-system in Imperial Glory. That's it & that's all folks. :cool:

Tenjo_Kalle
21st Apr 2005, 13:36
So then I take it you speak only for urself and that there is no official statement on this issue yet - so whipe that smile off ur face. I can back up my speak with hundreds or thousands of potential buyers. If you did read the petition the onlinecommunity of totalwar sent to the developers of rome total war you will see what people think are important in a wargame. (it was signed by hundreds of players)

Kalle

BANANAMAN
21st Apr 2005, 13:40
I can back up my speak with hundreds or thousands of potential buyers.Kalle

Yep, Cossacks2 buyers/fans.

Tenjo_Kalle
21st Apr 2005, 13:41
Cossacks is not the game i want. Maybe that is why you are a fraid of a moralesystem?? I dont like cossacks one bit.

I am using totalwar as my comparison game - you should see that if u bothered to read.

Kalle

BANANAMAN
21st Apr 2005, 13:46
I can back up my speak with hundreds or thousands of potential buyers. If you did read the petition the onlinecommunity of totalwar sent to the developers of rome total war you will see what people think are important in a wargame. (it was signed by hundreds of players)
Kalle

That's true but most of the TotalWar buyer/fans are anti-gunpowder/Napoleonic TotalWar and would like to see swords & shields/ancient warfare from the TotalWar developers. Just a few are open to a possible Napoleonic warfare, just take a good look at their forum:

* I want a China TotalWar
* I want a 2.000 BC Total War
* I want Aztec & Incas TotalWar
* I want a Medieval2 TotalWar
* I want an ancient Asia TotalWar
* And so on, as long as it is about bows, arrows & swords. :D

BANANAMAN
21st Apr 2005, 13:50
And in the TotalWar series you can choose if you want a morale-system or not, that's nice but that doesnt make Imperial Glory less of a pc game just because there is NO morale-system in it.

Tenjo_Kalle
21st Apr 2005, 14:47
Well Bananaman, if there is one thing I do know - then it is what is being said in the totalwarforums. No need to tell me that.

On the other hand you should look closer at the totalwar forums because there is threads there debating the imperial glory demo so there is (or was??) an intrest allright.

Also if you look carefully in these forums you will see many people from the totalwarcommunity having shown intrest here.

But lets agree instead of argue. I hope we both can agree to it would be good if there was a moralesystem but with an option to turn it off, just like you say. That would please everyone in this issue I hope.

Kalle

BANANAMAN
21st Apr 2005, 15:17
I made my points to its full, so I also see no reason going on with argueing about the moral-system.

Ciao! :)

screamingpalm
23rd Apr 2005, 01:44
Saddletank,

If you are interested in miniature wargaming, there is a ruleset called Carnage & Glory II that I highly recommend. It is the most realistic simulator I have ever seen, and I have playtested a ton of rulesets. It is a software program that takes into account everything: morale & fatigue, weather, ammo is limited, first volley, VERY detailed commander and unit ratings, unpredictable events, and many other things that would be impossible, or incredibly tedious with a standard dice ruleset. I have never played a better game in any genre than that.

Tenjo_Kalle
23rd Apr 2005, 09:05
The only problem with your point Bananaman is that you are telling the developers that you are satisfied, no wrong, you are overjoyed with a game that has not reached its full potential. Thus you are in fact very counterproductive to this game. You are arguing for a worse game with less fetures and less skill involved.

If you had played some other wargames you would know what is possible to include and what is not. Maybe then you would stop posting crap.

Kalle

BANANAMAN
23rd Apr 2005, 09:12
Les Grognards fans are just keep coming at me. :(

But HEY! NO PROBLEM! I can handle them! :cool:

LOL! :D

BANANAMAN
23rd Apr 2005, 09:22
Say, Tenjo.. so what you are saying is that posts from a satisfied gamer is not 'fashionable' so it must be 'crap', lol. :D

So, everything you dont like in your opinion is 'crap', lol! :D

So, if you dont like vegetables, it's 'crap', lol. :D

If you dont like sports, it's 'crap', LOL! :D

If you dont like going to school, it's 'crap', LOL! HAHAHAHA! :D

Man! Get your logics straight. :D :cool:

Tenjo_Kalle
23rd Apr 2005, 09:32
When you are satisfied with the game that this demo shows - yes it tells me you know nothing. The demo show it has great potential but it does not show a great game in the state it is in. That is very understandable as it is a demo - this is why we post our opinions to help pyros make the game great - you ont he other hand sy nothing more needs to be done - that is great help :rolleyes:

Everything I dont like is not crap - never said that and never will - stop insinuating things.

I like sports.

I dont go to school anymore. In one month Im getting my third university exam. I have a masters in history and a bachelor of teaching so for all you know I might be your teacher.

There is nothing wrong with my logics.

Now go do your homework, Im sure your mom would be worried if she knew how much time you spent here and she would be even more worried if she saw what you posted.

Kalle

BANANAMAN
23rd Apr 2005, 09:48
When you are satisfied with the game that this demo shows - yes it tells me you know nothing. The demo show it has great potential but it does not show a great game in the state it is in. That is very understandable as it is a demo - this is why we post our opinions to help pyros make the game great - you ont he other hand sy nothing more needs to be done - that is great help :rolleyes:

Everything I dont like is not crap - never said that and never will - stop insinuating things.

I like sports.

I dont go to school anymore. In one month Im getting my third university exam. I have a masters in history and a bachelor of teaching so for all you know I might be your teacher.

There is nothing wrong with my logics.

Now go do your homework, Im sure your mom would be worried if she knew how much time you spent here and she would be even more worried if she saw what you posted.

Kalle

I'm satisfied with the demo, meaning I will be even MORE satisfied with the full version of Imperial Glory. But I never said to others: no, your idea for this or that feature is no good.. except for that 'morale-system' thing. The morale-system is just a horrible feature, just take a look at the Cossacks2 forums if you dont know what I mean.

And funny teacher your are, LOL! :D

( Imagine this: on a report-card it says by Tenjo: no good student, your tests are all crap!) :D

I wish there were more teachers like you, LOL! :D

mob
23rd Apr 2005, 10:12
bana you are far from funny

and moral is so important


you tit

Tenjo_Kalle
23rd Apr 2005, 10:15
Again you show you have not read what I have written in this forum - or maybe your memory is just to short.

I dont like cossacks - I dont want this game to be in anyway like cossacks. I write again; the games I relate IG to are the totalwarseries (simply because those are the games that most resembles this one and it is very obvious that Eidos/Pyros has got some inspiration from the totalwarseries). They have shown that a moralefeture indeed adds to the gameplay - a game such as this is not a wargame without a moralesystem. The moralesystem is in fact a great feture. If you had played the totalwargames you would know this. At this point I think it is safe to say that you have not played the totalwargames and then it is a fact that you dont know what you are talking about.

Also the moralsystem is not the only thing that you are protesting about. After having played the demo 1000 times :rolleyes: you also say there is no need for the hold ground command that many people want. One would think you would remember your own words at least.

Probably I would have to write something about crap on your scoreboard ;)

But as I said in my previous post I do not classifie everything I dont like as crap so stop insinuating that.

Also as you can see I sign my posts with Kalle (or possibly TenjoKalle) this means you should call me Kalle not Tenjo. If you use the the word Tenjo you adress my whole clan and the rest of my clan is not here so I would like you to use Kalle instead if you are planning to answer me with any more of your crap.

Kalle

ps. I agree with mob ds.

BANANAMAN
23rd Apr 2005, 10:25
Okey, kenny.. uh kalle.

But the morale-system not being there does not ruin the game (Imperial Glory), but if you like you can try to get it implemented into the game (Imperial Glory) by sending an E-MAIL TO Pyrostudios. It's: pyrostudios@pyrostudios.com ... good luck, you will be needing it. :D :cool:

Czar
23rd Apr 2005, 10:30
To ALL OF YOU,

I come here to read about I.G. - alternatives to I.G. The good and the bad about I.G.
I do this to help me decide if I will buy I.G. :confused:

I DO NOT come here to read the next exciting episode in your personal flame war. :mad:

You have now spread this arguement to two threads :mad:

Enough already.
(Don't make me call a moderator :p )
Either start your own "Lets flame each other" thread or I will.

Anyway, The full version of IG will be here very soon. That means your arguements are wasted.
We will soon know. ;)

mob
23rd Apr 2005, 10:58
someone kick czar hes anoying

BANANAMAN
23rd Apr 2005, 11:23
To ALL OF YOU,

I come here to read about I.G. - alternatives to I.G. The good and the bad about I.G.
I do this to help me decide if I will buy I.G. :confused:

I DO NOT come here to read the next exciting episode in your personal flame war. :mad:

You have now spread this arguement to two threads :mad:

Enough already.
(Don't make me call a moderator :p )
Either start your own "Lets flame each other" thread or I will.

Anyway, The full version of IG will be here very soon. That means your arguements are wasted.
We will soon know. ;)

I'm sorry about that Czar but what could I do? :confused: Should I have told those guys: "Kick me some more".??????? :D

saddletank
23rd Apr 2005, 11:48
Saddletank,

If you are interested in miniature wargaming, there is a ruleset called Carnage & Glory II that I highly recommend. It is the most realistic simulator I have ever seen, and I have playtested a ton of rulesets. It is a software program that takes into account everything: morale & fatigue, weather, ammo is limited, first volley, VERY detailed commander and unit ratings, unpredictable events, and many other things that would be impossible, or incredibly tedious with a standard dice ruleset. I have never played a better game in any genre than that.

Thanks, I'll go check it out. Is it a PC rulset that supports/resolves gameplay for a miniatures game or is it a stand-alone pc based game?

Mike_B
23rd Apr 2005, 14:43
someone kick czar hes anoying

Why, because he's right? He's one of the few here that actually post things that add something to the community.

Khornish
23rd Apr 2005, 15:16
Kalle,


Just /ignore the fruity troll and move on. No matter how often you hit him with a logical argument, it just won't ever sink in.

FWIW, I agree with you that morale should be included. Hell, several other "cinematic" RTS games have it, why should IG be any different (especially when morale was a huge factor in how units behaved).

If IG doesn't end up with morale then we can give a collective sigh and consider how much better of a game it could have been with it.

At this point, without major recoding, it doesn't appear morale will be in the game. The developers have decided what kind of game they want to produce and hope enough people will pony up the cash. Unfortunately, not enough people will be willing to hold out, so the developers will be rewarded for putting out a lesser version of their product. Same story as always in this industry.

I really do want IG to be a great game, but gitz and glamour don't cut it with me when a few really obvious features are left out.

I guess it's a good thing they aren't an auto manufacturer, would hate to have bought a car from them that was missing something important.

Czar
23rd Apr 2005, 15:22
Thanks, I'll go check it out. Is it a PC rulset that supports/resolves gameplay for a miniatures game or is it a stand-alone pc based game?

Found it!

The link
http://home.att.net/~npmarsh/index.htm
Looks interesting :cool:

BANANAMAN
23rd Apr 2005, 15:29
Kalle,


Just /ignore the fruity troll and move on. No matter how often you hit him with a logical argument, it just won't ever sink in.

FWIW, I agree with you that morale should be included. Hell, several other "cinematic" RTS games have it, why should IG be any different (especially when morale was a huge factor in how units behaved).

If IG doesn't end up with morale then we can give a collective sigh and consider how much better of a game it could have been with it.

At this point, without major recoding, it doesn't appear morale will be in the game. The developers have decided what kind of game they want to produce and hope enough people will pony up the cash. Unfortunately, not enough people will be willing to hold out, so the developers will be rewarded for putting out a lesser version of their product. Same story as always in this industry.

I really do want IG to be a great game, but gitz and glamour don't cut it with me when a few really obvious features are left out.

I guess it's a good thing they aren't an auto manufacturer, would hate to have bought a car from them that was missing something important.

Well, Korny.. eh Khornish: you are a few months late I guess. And by the way, this is a pc game no car. Liked your comparison though.

And the game (Imperial Glory) is just working fine with or without the morale-system.

Khornish
23rd Apr 2005, 15:42
Found it!

The link
http://home.att.net/~npmarsh/index.htm
Looks interesting :cool:


It looks to be a decent program.

I'd buy it if I didn't already have a few sets of rules I liked. :)

screamingpalm
23rd Apr 2005, 22:44
It looks to be a decent program.

I'd buy it if I didn't already have a few sets of rules I liked. :)

Hi, just got home from work, but yes...that is the website. I got to meet the author at Historicon a couple years ago, a Brit living in Conneticut USA (Historicon is a huge annual wargame convention). He put on the battle of Vittoria with gorgeous 25 mm figures. It is the most detailed ruleset Ive ever seen, its' only con is that is battalion based instead of regimental and keeps me busy painting miniatures lol. We used it last year to recreate Talavera. It is a PC software program to support miniatures, and after many tedious games of dice rulesets it is simply amazing. If you are like me and feel exhausted and drained from calculations and trying to remember pass-through units, etc etc, you will really appreciate what it can do. It makes it so you can really concentrate on the tactical and strategic part of the game. Last time we played I can remember my cavalry having a juicy flank to charge and when I told the computer my intention to charge it said I couldnt because my unit was exhausted. And another where my unit was in cannister range from my opponents 12 pounder, I was like ugh...but he had run out of ammo lol. Another charge failed because of a horrible general, battle mad British cavalry- computer said in one particular battle that it must keep charging after winning the melee with a line formation- right into the square behind it! So many cool things that are missing from standard dice-sets. I wish there was a way to take a hollywood graphics game and add it to C&G and change it from turn based to an RTS video game.

Mongo80
24th Apr 2005, 00:51
So why model a pc game on Napoleon's battles and campaigns? I don't agree with your argument but then you knew that, so we'll close this discussion. You play IG as it is now, I'll put it away until some decent mods are made for it.

I happen to agree !00% with saddletank. They claim this game is true and accurate. So why not have a morale system in place? I dont recall ever playing a PC game or for that matter any other format of a strategy game of this genre w?o a morale system. I also strongly agree w/ S/tanks point that if IM commanding poorly, I should be corrected. Like wise If I'm doing well the enemy should be corrected (meaning routed) .