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Churruca
9th Jan 2005, 09:45
Hi everybody!
I admite Spain or Portugal were not so powerful as oyher powers in this period but it could be nice to be able to command the Spanish Armada in Cape St. Vincent or in Trafalgar!!Why not in Arapiles or Bailén??
God bless Your Highness!

BlackCoat
9th Jan 2005, 17:55
or netherlands, norway, sweden, denmark, helvetia, naples, persia..
all the italian or german principalities..

or the really big one, ottomans... especially with its semiindependent berber vassals.


I would really have liked to see sweden, spain and ottomans of those as playable.
I do wonder how much extra effort that would take? Some numbers figeting and creating one or two unique units each. Its not as if we ask for a new map or moved borders..

ps: a pretty good map ;) (http://www.euratlas.com/big/big1800.htm)

Casaca_Blanca
9th Jan 2005, 20:18
BlackCoat, it seems that you think Spain wasn't a nation that fought in Napoleonic Wars.

First of all, you can't compare Spain with all that countries only, for the role in the war.
The French soldiers in Spain, never were less than 300.000.

I think in Hessen or Parma there isn't space enought.
Second, Netherlands were COMPLETELY conquered, Spain remained all the south and the guerrilla attacks happened all over Spain.

Norway... Norway my friend was a province of Denmark and after of Sweden and in 1904 became independent.
Helvetia, it was lost in the mountains... i think Napoleon was too ocupied to attack people that was making and selling clocks and watches.
Mmmm, interesting... Persia, but we are talking about the Napoleonic era, not the Medieval one.

I think, the only really important you've said is the Ottoman Empire. But the country that ofered the target for the training of the French soldier in Egypt, nostrills and so on... it's not very important.

We are not asking for something stupid, I saw some post of people that wants the British flag be in the correct scale in cent*meters. That's stupid.

The Spanish Army, after defeating the French in San Marcial and Vitoria, arrived since Tolouse.
In other chapters we'll talk about the Navy.

I don't want to be unpleasant or rude but, if you see that a really important country it's seeing only as a piece of land for be conquered...
See you soon ;)

BlackCoat
9th Jan 2005, 20:45
Oh, I know the history reasonably well.

But was that really a independent Spain, or one acting as a French vassal?
Im not so sure about Spain being independent. But once nappy tried placing his brother there on the throne, there sure was a reaction. Ok, so it succeeded much due to the French having to fight elsewhere too, but well done non the less.


Surely I mentioned many of those as nations that could have been in aswell. Then mentioned those I thought where significant enough to be enjoyable. Spain was in that second cathegory ;)

But as for Norway, well, their position is a bit iffy. Fairly independent, and did defend themselves in 1814.. only to fall to Sweden almost immediately after. But did manage to keep a very extensive autonomy. But starting 1789, yeah, Part of Denmark.


Heh. Spain is actually one of my favourite countries, about 4th position ;)
So dont worry about me underestimating.

Casaca_Blanca
10th Jan 2005, 17:03
Well, the fact is that Spain was completely INDEPENDENT of Napoleon, by the time Napoleon tried to install his brother in the trone, first the army and then the people started the fight.

Of course there was in a concret moment a vassal goverment but i can't imagine the president of the time fighting as a French, the people who fought, were civilians and regular soldiers and MOST of them fought for Spain.

Even more, when the "reaction" started, the French troops, took place in the cities and only in the south, the military goverment, placed the capital in Cadiz ( during the war was never conquered).

I'm still thinking that in a country where the French lost over 350.000 soldiers, is a "first cathegory country". That's why we post, we can't understand the developers.

Best whishes

Willmore
11th Jan 2005, 02:14
If Russia were not included, I'd be pissed too. So, you have some point, but there has to be a line drawn somewhere. If it makes you feel better, then Spain is probably the next country on the list, and was just a step short. Think of them like that football team that misses the UEFA spot in the league by 1 position.

Casaca_Blanca
11th Jan 2005, 14:30
Well, it's a way to see it.

Let's use it, have you ever seen the "Intertoto"???
The points that Spain has, are far away from the next.
And that was a good place to put the "line", don't you think??

That's what we don't understand, this game will also go out in Spain and I don't see a lot of expectation here.

Even Cossacks 2 has anounced and add-on with many countries, including Spain.
We can't know if Pyro would do something like this... I only know that it's not useless in them to making expansion packs.

Willmore
12th Jan 2005, 02:15
And what is Intertoto ? It's a way to get to the UEFA cup, after playing other matches. My point - if you wait, and there is an expansion, you might get Spain. They will never add another country this late in the development, it's far better they spend their time polishing the game, rather than add Spain.

Blas_de_Lezo
23rd Jan 2005, 21:46
BlackCoat : "or netherlands, norway, sweden, denmark, helvetia, naples, persia... all the italian or german principalities.."


Please , spain can`t be comparate whit norway , sweden or denmark in the period of the game ( 1790-1830 )




BlackCoat : "But was that really a independent Spain, or one acting as a French vassal?
Im not so sure about Spain being independent. But once nappy tried placing his brother there on the throne, there sure was a reaction. Ok, so it succeeded much due to the French having to fight elsewhere too, but well done non the less."


Spain was allied of napoleon , no his vassal , and was complety independent.


BlackCoat : "Spain was in that second cathegory" :eek:

If spain that have the 2º most powerfull navy , that was the bigguest imperium of the period ( in extension ) , that was the first country to win a battle in land versus the french ( in this period people in europe belive that the french army was invincible ) , that kill 475000 french soldier ( and in spain were more that 300000 soldiers in all the war ) and his regular army after destroy the french in San Marcial and near the river Bidasoa arrive to Tolouse was of second cathegory , what country it`s of first ?
Austria , that only lose , and his navy was 1 fragata ?
Prussia , that lose , lose and lose , and the only good that do in the napoleonics wars was save the english in the battle of waterloo?
I think that you don`t know the importance that have spain in the napoleonics wars .

I can`t understand why pryo don`t include spain in the game . :confused:
Please pryo spend some € in history books.

:rolleyes: hola churruca :p

Czar
24th Jan 2005, 02:16
You see?

This is what I talked about in my first ever post here :p

If you want to make an historic game you have to contend with all the people who will argue that "this country should be included because they were decisive in the battle of..."
(and I am not saying that this is not a valid argument BTW)

And if you are going to worry about tassels on swords then people will say that the Flag should be Y feet x Z feet. :rolleyes:
But again, in context, quite a valid point.

Quite honestly though - I am beginning to worry this might all be moot.
We haven't heard from the developers in a while now :confused:

The_Russian_Rocket
24th Jan 2005, 23:39
What was that battle called Blas_de_Lezo?

Mea_cupla
14th Feb 2005, 20:41
Good Question! - I've not heard of a true Spannish army beating a french? - would like to read up about it! Ginvd of curious about another thing too, if Spain was entirely indepedant of French rule, What was Wellesley doing there for so long after booting les Blues from Portugal?

Biggest ommission from my view point is Brunswick! - But only because I liked their uniforms!

I think I'll I'm trying to say is that there are only a finite number of possibilities within a game, some times devs will have to cut corners for the sake of actually getting a game that works! - I'd rather there was no Piedmont/Spain/Westphalia/Poland/Brunswick... etc and a game, than no game at all.

Don't take it personnaly boys!

The_Russian_Rocket
16th Feb 2005, 02:20
I'm still waiting for an answer...Did you mean the Allies in the Peninsular war Blas_de_Lezo? Because there were three countries involved in that: The Spanish, Portuguese and the British drove out the French invaders.

Blas_de_Lezo
19th Feb 2005, 15:56
The_Russian_Rocket: What was that battle called Blas_de_Lezo?


Blas de Lezo was a spanish marine not a battle . His most famous battle was the defence of Cartagena de Indias in 1741 , when whit 3000 soldiers and 600 indians archers destroy the english , that were 168 ships and 23600 soldiers.



Mea_Cupla: I've not heard of a true Spannish army beating a french? - would like to read up about it!

Spain have a regular army during all the war . The first battle that lose the soldiers of napoleon was in bailen versus the regular army. Then napoleon in person came to spain , and destroy it, but it continue existing . In the rest of the war , the regular army fight near the english army . Some of his most famous victories were the battles of Talavera ( whit the english ) , the battle of San Marcial , the battles near the river Bidasoa or the battle of Vitoria ( whit the english and portugueses ).


Mea_cupla: think I'll I'm trying to say is that there are only a finite number of possibilities within a game, some times devs will have to cut corners for the sake of actually getting a game that works!


I know that it´s imposible include all the countries in the game , and that all people wants that his country appears in it . But if they do a game about the WWII , i understand that spain don´t appears , but a game of the napoleonics wars ..... spain play an important role in this period .
I only want some reasons to include a countries like prussia or austria in the game , and don`t include spain in it .
It `s the same that if they do a game of the WWII , and you can play whit poland or italy , but you can´t play whit the UK .


The_Russian_Rocket: I'm still waiting for an answer...Did you mean the Allies in the Peninsular war Blas_de_Lezo? Because there were three countries involved in that: The Spanish, Portuguese and the British drove out the French invaders.


True , there were three countries involed. First , the english that never were more that 75000 soldieres ( the french never were less of 300000 ) , and were feed by the spanish . Furthemore , they haven´t got enought soldiers so they have to recruit spanish since 1812 .For example, in this year the 34 % of the reinforcements of the 1º, 2º and 3º battalion of the 95 Rifles were spanish.
The english help was very important in the peninsular war and they liberate more of the citys of the french ( furthemore wellington was a big general ) . But they also doing more slaughters whit the spanish citizens , for example in Badajoz or San Sebastian . In Vigo they sack the city and violate the womas , and more times they destroy the spanish factories that do competition whit the english factories , and then they said that the french destroy it .
The portuguese were only battalions that fight near the english and spanish .
The help of the portuguese and of the english was very important .
Spain have help , and france too , and austria , and prussia , and russia.

The question it`s why they don`t include spain in the game . ( please, don´t write a post saying that denmark or naples aren´t include too , because they haven´t got the importance that have spain in this period . )